First half of series:
>Elite secret force that uses covert tactics IE: long term spying and stealth attacks like Sensei's acupuncture needles.
>also uses guerrilla tactics focused on precise traps and ingenious sowing stylized attacks IE: Tsumugu's bomb/traps and sowing needle machine guns that negate life fibers.
Second half of the series:
>group EASILY wiped out unable to even defend their home base from a single 3-star user. (Nonon one shots most of the underground base)
>all nudist beach tech was not useful the moment was useless the very episodes they were introduced (most all DTR's were destroyed in their introductory episodes)
>final episode TIME FOR GATTAI!.... ;_;
Hopes and dreams gone.
i think Trigger has a hard on for creating interesting and unique characters just to forget about them.
Remember in the second Gurren Lagann movie where everyone got a Tengen-Toppa sized mech and then became useless 5 seconds after each of their introduction?
Heck, one pair of them even said after their introduction "We will make you remember us!" and then got literally beaten in the very next frame.
I can't be the only one though that when we saw then combine that we were hoping they would become a more formidable force than they had been. But I was quickly put back in my place seconds later; silly me for thinking that DTRs and Nudist Beach could be cool.
That was possibly the biggest let down of the episode. I was looking forward to them maybe being actually useful finally but they just got wiped out instantly. Hell, if they had just been able to help break some people free or something it would have been fine.
They had to unnecessarily job to show how busted Ragyo's power level was but she was already so off the charts that it was hardly contestable. I agree with you; I wish they could have rescued some people while the elite 4 worked on the shield/device. Hell even fighting some covers in the background would have been ok with me.
While we're on people who could have been folded into other people, as much as I liked Iori and Inumuta (both designs were amazing) they could have made the research/info guy the developer as well and been able to focus developing one good background instead of two so-so backgrounds.
Ep. 5 showed us that he's collecting life fibers. For what reason? The show never told us (Was it to make the life fiber bullet?)
It was also told to us that he's attacking affiliated academies (To gather more life fiber? We don't know).
And of course there is THAT bullet which was never used.
Why all of this was never put to the show I wonder.
People are saying that Trigger scrapped Tsumugu after the 2 week hiatus but is that even possible?
How long do you need to write/animate/dub 1 whole anime episode. Doesn't it take like at least 10 weeks? If yes then the show was already done before the 2nd cour even started. I am throwing numbers out of my ass right now so somebody please correct me.
As far as him collecting life fibers I agree that probably could have used something of an explanation (maybe for the bullet, maybe just to destroy them, who knows)
>And of course there is THAT bullet which was never used.
I don't really think that is much of a problem. People like to clamor that this is a "plot-hole" when really it's not.
The whole show changed at Natural Elections or whatever, Ryuko was suddenly able to defeat the Four Devas one after the other (previously she was defeated by just one, just a couple of chapters back), and the dynamic of Nudist Beach changed instantly after, and the whole anime moved past just the academy, and the life fibers moved completely to the spotlight as the very antagonists. It was almost like the anime was being written by a completely different staff.
This show would do well with a TTGL treatment where it gets two movies that retell it slightly. Hell, some characters would probably benefit from it and the final battle with Ragyou most definitely would. The ending for KLK (the last two episodes) felt a bit rushed, so it would definitely be great to get the final battle expanded upon. Conversely with TTGL I felt the movies dragged it out a bit too much.
As much as I'd like to back you up with citations I just can't remember all of them right now... But I had heard about them scrapping the nudist beach storyline and trying to reign in back in after the hiatus. But here's the thing the anime itself had been written already; might not have been animated, but the story was done. HOWEVER with how many loose ends and inconsistencies there seem to be between the first half and second half there was an obvious editorial change. I just wish we could have seen the original product instead of how it tried to evolve with the audience. Triggers job was to entertain us not us tell them how to entertain us.
I think possibly, as far as the writing goes, the earlier episodes were probably written in later during the overall story planning. They probably felt they needed to give a bit more of an introduction. The core conflict of the story didn't really arise till the reveal of Ragyou and Nui, possibly not even till Satsuki attempted her coup.
Tsumugu died somewhere after ep 17.
It is just better that way.
Just wait for the remake in 2045. Or maybe they'll really do some movies some day which aren't just a recap with a few new scenes but something which is similar but different or more like the thing they originally planned.
>self-contained anime about Ryuuko seeking revenge for his father's death, with the weapons of choice being life fibers, there's a subgroup that's attempting to get rid of life fibers
>over the top conflict about saving the world which is to be consumed whole by an over the top villain while the protagonist is constantly upgraded and upgraded to ludicrous levels until she is way past everybody else and they have a final battle which is dumb with a boring very evident outcome
> after 2 weeks
i give you 9 months
Also remember that the miniscule (but still existant) amount of depth to Nui's character is completely lost unless you look into it very hard or learn from an outside source what she was meant to be.
And then there's Ragyo, who became the god emperor of clothes... somehow.
The earlier episodes were a very nice buildup to a big scale conflict, however it should have happened much earlier.
If they trashed the Raid Trip and put Satsuki's coup right there, in episode 14 instead, it would have been much better overall, with more time to properly show how the different characters flesh out and what exactly they're fighting. 10 episodes is a lot of time to do it well, as opposed to just 6 with 3 wasted on a nigh-pointless arc.
I didn't really feel there were any "wasted" characters. If we're going to compare this to TTGL, then KLK certainly did better in this regard. TTGL had loads side characters that had a few lines of dialogue that went absolutely nowhere. KLK at least had stronger characterization for most of them and kept its central characters and side characters far more relevant than TTGL; Ryuuko, Satsuki and Mako certainly, but also E4, Iori, NB and Mankanshokus (to a lesser extent). With TTGL though aside from Simon, Kamina, Nia, Yoko and (to a lesser extent) Kittan and Rossiu we didn't get much. Everyone else was just completely marginalized to background status.
Yeah, I didn't like that. Even in episode 5 it sounds like Aikuro and Tsumugu has higher ups then in episode 15 it turns out they are the higher ups. I don't even know what happened with 16 onwards but that was another issue I didn't like.
I mean on one hand I understood why ryuuko was raging but it's a trope I don't care for and it just gave rise to more shitposting and then on the other hand you have Nui who should've been dead in episode 22 from the perfect build up but nope, just have Houououououououmaru come and snatch her up and pretty much ruin the flow of the ending.
It is still not confirmed if the scene with his sister's death in Isshin's lab is immediately after Ryuuko was born. It could have been more recent.
He is probably in his early 20s, again, close to Gamagori's age.
>They were completely non-entities for the most of second cour.
>Devas saved Satsuki
>Devas were assisting her in every situation
>Naked Sun was responsible for stopping the OLF
>NB broke down the shield in the final episode
Meanwhile in TTGL all the side characters died pointless deaths that were retconned in the second movie.
>however it should have happened much earlier.
That's what I'm saying. It was introduced so late, that it seems like a different team decided to rewrite everything.
It's ridiculous to think that a show that pats itself in the back for being fast-paced would take so long to develop the plot, especially when it isn't even a complicated one. Or maybe Trigger is that useless? I don't even know.
They just should have stuck with a simple formula of monster of the week + Ryuuko's revenge.
It's like "door-monster-treasure" in RPGs, it is basic but never fails.
Also ALIENS. Why does everything turn to shit every time aliens or introduced midway.
I was okay with the Raid Trip honestly, it was an interesting twist in the sense that you actually find yourself rooting for the antagonists. It could have been shortened a bit though, maybe by taking some time out of ep13 (Ryuuko in her slump) and taking some time out from introducing the other academies and focusing more on Osaka. But I did feel that they let the Naturals Election drag a bit too long. Ep 8 and 9 could have probably been rolled into one episode, as for 10 and 11. Still, the Naturals Election did serve a good purpose of fleshing out the Devas and giving us some of their backstory and motivations. Also the entire Natuals Election arc gave us (strong) hints as to Satsuki's true motivations and goals, cluing us into the possibility that she and Ryuuko are not true enemies.
The Devas remained relevant throughout the second cour. NB did as well in terms of assisting the devas in battle as well as providing the base and Naked Sol. The only thing they flubbed on was having Tsumugu and Aikurou staying so weak in their souped up DTRs.
I was wondering what episodes could be cut to make Kill la Kill better and it comes to the raid trip which is only relevant for nudist beach to do nothing and show Ryuuko is stronger without senketsu and 19-20 timeskip with Ryuuko storming off and timeskip and while I liked the battlefield trip it doesn't do too much.
Frankly, the only essential Deva was Gama. Inu could have been fused with Iori and the plot wouldn't have changed. Nonon and Sangeyama's plots went nowhere - as beloved as they were, they could have been written out. Nonon had a thing with Satsuki that wasn't properly expanded on, and Monkey's resolve ended up not mattering in the final fight
Devas were not wasted what so ever. Maybe your favorite Deva did not get the screen time you wanted but the 4 Devas together were written well and their end resolve at the end of the show left nothing un answered.
Trigger did a great job keeping them involved in the plot throughout the entire show.
Nudists were sloppy and thrown together compared to them when it comes to writing.
To be fair I thought Monkey had some nice development. And when he finally revealed that his eyes were open in the finale it was very cathartic. I'm not even a Monkeyfag but it was a great moment.
At least ALIUMS was better than everything /a/ was predicting
>no, life fibers are humans turned into clothing
>no, life fibers are a soul
Not really. I don't see how that;s any different. They just gave reason as to why each one of them had a reason to serve Satsuki which ultimately came together in episode 22 when they defended her against Ryuuko's punch.
I pretty explicitly described what I meant by the TTGL treatment in my earlier post: i.e. remaking the series into two movies and expanding on segments that were underdeveloped in the main series.
I bet the original story is darker with some of 4deva is killed, then they realize this character more FUN than tsumugu.Trigger is trying to avoid TTGL route of killing favorite character, how many people will drop this show if gamagori got killed or mako ded?
so shut up about nudisto beach, they are actually pretty boring part
Nonon's was resolved though.
>hurr I'm Satsuki's bestie never forget it
>Oh man, she and Satsuki must have a special bond or something
>nah, just Nonon being a brat because she's know Satsuki the longest
It was a great moment - but it didn't answer the "So what?" question. He wasn't particularly useful in the final fight anyway. There would have been little difference if his eyes were still sealed. Maybe Ragyo isn't surprised for a half-second. Whoop-de-doo
>What did we learn about the villains from the show alone?
What more did we need to learn about the villains?
>What did we learn about Junketsu?
Who cares honestly? Junketsu was another Kamui manufactured by REVOCs for Satsuki to wear. Does it need any more elaboration?
>remaking the series into two movies and expanding on segments that were underdeveloped in the main series.
But they didn't do that they just simiplified the events, removed what little character development they were and retconned character deaths.
I didn't really have a problem with the aliens reveal. It didn't really change the arc of the conflict. If it wasn't aliens then it would have been some other explanation like magic or a scientific experiment gone wrong.
Just adding pictures to refresh memories.
...which is no different from what they were in teh first cour. 6, 8, and 9 established why all of them are with Satsuki as well as give them backstory everything that came after were just reiterations of those and to prove that they weren't just all talk.
>What more did we need to learn about the villains?
What makes them tick, what made them do all this, how did they get their powers.
Would you rather have all villains reduced to THIS IS THE EVIL GUY HIT HIM?
>Who cares honestly? Junketsu was another Kamui manufactured by REVOCs for Satsuki to wear. Does it need any more elaboration?
Yes. Did he have a will of his own? Was he just a tool? Who made him? Was he a Kiryuin heirloom or Isshin's prototype?
Remember when the OST came out and saved Christmas?
There were 2 songs that had not aired yet in the show. I want to know, and Till I die. People figured out "I want to know" but there were so many speculations on "Till I die"
So many people had thought it was a love song between RyuukoXfill-n-the-blank. Recall the scene when Trigger uses the song, then go listen to the track. The staff did a great job at writing the Devas.
>It didn't really change the arc of the conflict.
Yes they did. It's like atom bombs suddenly becoming sentient and attempting to conquer the world in the middle of an armed conflict.
Planet-consuming alien lifeforms is such a baffling direction to take I still can't wrap my head around it.
Agreed. Second cour, while fun, was only fun because I watched it live with /a/. Going back to rewatch it later, I know I will hate the second cour. First cour was interesting and raised a lot of questions for the viewer, only to never answer them later. Plus, aliums.
It fits incredibly well with the last scene of Ryuuko and Senketsu as well which I wonder why they didn't put it in
>What makes them tick
They love life life fibers and believe them to be the next step in the evolution food chain.
>what made them do all this
Ragyo grew up following her family's philosophy that they held on to for over 400 years thanks to the influence of the OLF. The reason she's like that is because that's how she was raised. Nui is the same deal. Ishhin saved Satsuki and Ryuuko from the same fate as her mother and half sister.
Ep 4 didn't need to exist, despite it being very entertaining. Eps 8 and 9 could have been turned into a single episode. Eps 10 and 11 could have as well. Eps 13 - 15 (Senketsu getting torn up and the Raid Trip) could have been condensed into two episodes. I think cutting the Raid Trip out entirely would be a bit of a mistake though considering it helps to show how Ryuuko's motivations are changing. Also the Eps 21 and 22 could have been made into one episode.
Really though I wish this was a 26 ep + OVA series rather than 24 + OVA.
>In the first cour they seemed more like actual living people of their own
Not really. Uzu had his episode though but the rest were all about Satsuki-sama first. You can argue that they were planning something with Inu given that he just willingly gave up his bout with Ryuuko in episode 9 and the fact that his past story made it seem like he didn't willingly follow Satsuki like the rest of the Devas.
They rescued Satsuki from Honnouji with NB. They also, together with Satsuki, helped save Ryuuko from Junketsu. Then they continuously assisted Ryuuko and Satsuki throughout the final battle. They were never unimportant.
Maybe I remember wrong, but isn't there a discrepancy regarding the look change of Isshin? Correct me if I talk shit, but I am pretty damn sure that we saw a scene in which S?ichir? was "killed" by Hitler-kun and changed his look to Isshin after that - this happened when Ryuuko was still a baby. But in earlier episodes we see 5-year-old Satsuki who learns the truth from S?ichir? when he finally told her what her mother has done.
This doesn't make sense since Ryuuko was crealy a baby during that time or at least she wasn't four years old (one year younger than Satsuki) when he became Isshin. And even if she was four, then wouldn't she have wondered about the change of look of her father and would have remembered this change? And if this was the case that would mean that he already found her years ago and raised her? But if he knew Ryuuko was alive when Satsuki was 5 then why didn't he tell this to her after he said all the other stuff about her mother. Not to mention that he was only killed 6 months ago, but never tried to contact Satsuki anymore whom he tried to turn against Ragyou.
>They love life life fibers and believe them to be the next step in the evolution food chain.
Yeah, and how did they come to that conclusion? I mean, it's not an usual standpoint to have, sacrificing your life and whole race for another race to propser. There should be some kind of reason. And why was Ragyo so powerful and part-life fibers when just after that, she had to do a shitton experiment to emulate it again with her children?
Nope. All that's shown there is what Ragyo did and what she wants. WHY she wants that is only implied around 21 when she takes the yarn ball for a ride.
And there is still no answer to how she became a hybrid.
In that scene you can see Ryuuko is just a little toddler, so it can be amused he kept her alive for a few years then finally decided to smuggle her out and raise her after he told Satsuki the truth
>They rescued Satsuki from Honnouji with NB
They brought a chopper to Honnouji while Raygo was distracted. Ironically, actually introducing the chopper into Honnouji was more of a NB feat. And hooray for saving the useless character.
I think Trigger just did more harm than good when it comes to these guys.
Trigger does an amazing job with creating likable characters and can sometimes spend a little too much effort reminding us they exist and we should like them.
But with only 24 episodes and a character base 20 strong it is just not possible for trigger to continue the main plot while writing resolves that all the well written characters deserve.
>Yeah, and how did they come to that conclusion?
Being fused with it and once again the tradition of the family and their teachings, you can even see it in her dialogue whether she goes on about how great it feels and how lowly humans are.
I think they dropped the ball by not playing Till I Die at the end when Senketsu was burning up.
Is that something studios typically do with BD releases? Can they go back and amend parts of the soundtrack?
I haven't seen it mentioned but this little part of one of the biggest FUCK YEAH moments for me.
>Nope. All that's shown there is what Ragyo did and what she wants
What? In episode 16 it blatantly explains the significance of the OLF in the family, she is following the traditions of the family since that's how she was raised. It's not that fucking complicated.
Yeah but the problem is that this scene was after the killing attempt and during his transformation to Isshin. But he was still S?ichir? when he was telling the truth to Satsuki in earlier episodes.
Ep. 18 (I think it was 18):
Satsuki is 5 years old = S?ichir? is still S?ichir? (not Isshin).
Ryuuko is 0-1, Satsuki 1-2 years old: S?ichir? changes to Isshin.
Reminder that best servant lived.
However more backstory about her would have been nice.
But it doesn't make a difference because the enemy was Ragyou and life fibers all along. It doesn't matter whether the life fibers were aliens, or some other magical mcguffin.
>once again the tradition of the family and their teachings
I think you misunderstood it, SHE began those traditions and teachings.
>you can even see it in her dialogue whether she goes on about how great it feels and how lowly humans are.
But she's not life fiber.
She's only PART life-fiber, which means she'll probably be consumed by them for their expansion, just like Nui or Hououmaru.
Rewatch the damn episodes. She explains how the OLF shaped the family for 400 years and she was just following their will. In episode 18 we're given another glimpse into this it's also the benchmark as to why Isshin betrayed her.
>But it doesn't make a difference because the enemy was Ragyou and life fibers all along.
Raygo wasn't really important to the plot. She was more like an enabler for Satsuki antics. The one who provided the bucks for Satsuki's research and uniforms. It was until after the trip that Raygo acquired importance. Yes, life fibers even changed the antagonist, if you haven't noticed yet.
So who else watched the last episode naked
It was a pretty fitting way to watch it considering how the it went
Also because the episode finished downloading as soon as I got out of the shower
Some people tried to explain it away with red herrings and shit, but if you look at things like >>104590403 it seems to become obvious that everything is just outright bad writing or even an direct contraction.
She said she was doing her role as the heir to the Kiryuuin family name. She said she was no longer human, but a life fiber monster. She didn't become that way because she really liked the life fibers or anything, she just did what her family and been waiting to do for 400 years.
Remember the hype of ep 5?
What a waste of a great character.
The only reason why we have all these "NB were useless all the time" and "Monkey didn't have his final moment/duel" is because there are no particular "FUCK YEAH" moments with them.
Like when Gama fell from the sky after cheating death and dismantled the transmiter.
>Raygo wasn't really important to the plot.
Ragyou was practically the conduit for the OLF's and Nui's actions in the first place. She's not the "enabler" for Satsuki antics, she and the OLF are *the* reason for them.
>Yes, life fibers even changed the antagonist, if you haven't noticed yet.
It was hinted at pretty early on that Satsuki and the Devas weren't the true threat. Hell, I think even since ep6 when Ragyou was first introduced. They just shifted some of the antagonists into the protagonist camp, but they never stopped Ragyou or Nui or OLF from being antagonists themselves.
>All Life Fiber destroyed
>Ragyos says there are more on their way to earth
>They are all fucked
The whole Kinue story doesn't make any sense on the hindsight. We don't even know when it happened, it doesn't add to the plot and they kept her identity and look a secret for like half of the series for- what? They could just have outright said who she is because she isn't related to anybody but Tsumugu. So he could have said that his sister was killed and explain his hate towards life fibers but instead they always talked about "that woman" and he cares way too much about a stranger like Ryuuko who is basically just a random schoolkid from his point of view. Which is why we all assumed that she was part of his family. Then the haircolors and the part when he heard Senketsu talk.
Nobody will ever convince me that they didn't mess up the plot and that this was planned from the very beginning.
How Ragyou got hybridized has nothing to do with plot coherence, and it's not important to the story. Revealing how it happened would amount to little more than background fluff.
I read your post after posting mine >>104591008 and I realised that they weren't actually THAT useless as everyone says. Kinda forgot about that part.
They also had the Naked Sun which was kinda cool.
If you rewatch the series it's fairly coherent and works very well up until episode 18, with raid trip being somewhat of a weak point.
Everything that happens afterwards seems like a patchwork of old ideas and new ones held by spit and duct tape.
It has, because if she was a successful hybrid and it was family tradition then why did they have to research hybridization later?
It was never even mentioned whether she was just a fluke or not.
>Don't show that it's Aikuro that led Ryuko downstairs (Show just the legs and arm with a remote)
Episode 3 (Infodump ep):
>Aikuro's reveal that he led Ryuko to Senketsu along with the stuff from episode 2 is moved here.
>One or two scenes of Satsuki training with Junketsu to put him on, with Devas comentating
>Ends on a cliffhanger of Junketsu's transformation
>Ryuko/Satsuki fight from last episode moved here.
>Satsuki gives an flashback describing why she is planning to unite all of Japan, which Ryuko finds quite stupid.
>Episode ends with a shot of Tsumugu driving down the highway to Honnouji
>Trap Queen episode
>Fight Club ep
I can agree with that. NB characters really could have used some FUCK YEAH moments, especially after being jobbed so hard during their fight with Ryuuko, etc. They really deserved a bit more.
KLK had plenty of catharsis. Ep 22 was practically all catharsis.
>General election announcement
>Episode focusing on Senketsu and Junketsu from their perspectives
>Senketsu/Ryuko training with Aikuro and maybe Tsumugu, learning a tiny bit more about them/Nudist Beach
>Junketsu seen speaking for the first time, but Satsuki shuts him up before getting much out.
>Five days until the elections
>Pretty much episode 8 but with more Gama backstory and a bit more of the fight.
>End of Gamagori fight. Reveal that the next fight is Inumuta
>More backstory on Inu
>Fight lasts a bit longer, but is still forfeited.
>Satsuki having a phonecall with Ragyo, she mentions that the tournament should get "interesting"
>Episode ends with Nonon starting her fight by transforming into Symphony Regalia
>Nonon fight episode.
>Bit more backstory and info.
>Tsumugu delivers the life-fiber bullet
>Episode ends before Ryuko vs Sanageyama
>Sanageyama gets his fight, but is still cut short by Nui after ten minutes
>Ryuko gets a 4th form: Senketsu Tetsu (Defense focused armored mode)
>Nui starts fighting Ryuko, taunting her
>All 4 Devas remarking this situation as odd, Satsuki freaking the fuck out
>Ends on cliffhanger of Nui having killed Ryuko's dad
>Plays out the same way as episode 12 did but with a combination of Senketsu's "death" from episode 13 at the end.
It it obvious Trigger intended Tsumugu to be an older brother of Ryuuko. They even had the whole "Onii-chan, you pervert!" thing going on.
>School raid begins.
>Ryuko back with Aikuro/Tsumugu, telling her what's happened in the past week she's been passed out.
>Kyoto and Kobe are taken out before the episode ends
>Nudist Beach shows up in Osaka to aid Takarada
>Ryuko has assembled all of Senketsu except for one part.
>Said part has merged with Junketsu
>Satsuki can now thus use Senketsu's other forms in a fight against an imperfect Senketsu
>Aikuro/Tsumugu provide a distraction for Ryuko to take the last piece, resulting in an evenly-matched fight between Ryuko/Satsuki
>Satsuki is surprised that she can hear Ryuko and Senketsu talking
>Nudist Beach infodump from 16+17 combined
>Meanwhile Ragyo tells Satsuki to prepare the school festival
>Satsuki is shown the Original Life Fiber, and stays at the mansion
>At the mansion, she has a talk with Junketsu, and Junketsu lets lose what Ragyo has planned
>Ends the same way as episode 17
>Instead of taking Junketsu from Satsuki, Ragyo reveals her own Kamui (Koketsu)
>Satsuki/Ryuko fight on even terms with Ragyo
>Ryuko and Satsuki are revealed to both be part life-fibers, sending Ragyo in a berserk state again.
>Ragyo uses life fibers to take control of berserker Ryuko, leaving Satsuki and the Devas to deal with both her and Nui.
>Ragyo unleashes the COVERs, who are commanded by Hooumaru
>Ryuko breaks through her berserk state by help of both Satsuki and Mako, but gets angry again when Mako gets COVERed
>Satsuki passes out from her fight and is kidnapped by Ragyo
>if she was a successful hybrid and it was family tradition then why did they have to research hybridization later?
Maybe it wasn't a family tradition and the OLF just fucked with her in some inexplicable way?
It doesn't matter one iota how Ragyou got the way she was. It wouldn't alter the central conflict in the slightest and wouldn't alter the plot at all.
22 failed to deliver and I say this as a ryuukofag. You know what everyone wanted? Nui dead with Ryuuko coming back as icing on the cake.
What we got was Nui getting mocked then rescued and Ryuuko coming back. It doesn't even help that she got her arms back in the final episodes, might as well not lopped em off in the first place.
Do you think that it is possible that the "magic bullet" might be used to bring Senketsu back if the fibers are extracted out of it? Perhaps with Ryuuko's blood and some time (and more fibers from somewhere?) Senketsu could be brought back. Thoughts?
>One month timeskip occurs
>Ryuko, angry that she couldn't save Mako, leaves Nudist Beach+Devas and goes searching for answers back at Isshin's mansion
>Meanwhile Nudist Beach plans to take back Ragyo
>Ryuko and Senketsu have a long talk about how things have played out for the past month she's been out of it, and how she can't do this alone
>Mako is rescued from a COVERs, and joins Nudist Beach
>The group heads out to Honnouji Academy to discover that Ragyo has put Satsuki in a berserk state via a month of agitating about the loss of her sister and her compatriots
>Berserk Satsuki fights against the 4 Devas and Tsumugu while Ryuko arrives on the scene and has to deal with Nui.
>Tsumugu uses the life fiber bullet on Satsuki while the 4 Devas pin her down, knocking her out of the berserk state.
>A Tacticool Retreat is performed, Taking Satsuki and Junketsu back with them.
>Ryuko and Senketsu have a talk with Junketsu, his backstory is told.
>Created by Ragyo for Satsuki, but was disappointed at how she couldn't handle it at a young age and passed out mid-synchronization
>While Satsuki was at school and junk, Ragyo and Nui trained Junketsu for the day Satsuki would have to wear him.
>Ryuko and Senketsu ask Junketsu where his loyalty lies: with Satsuki or Ragyo. Before he can answer Nui shows up on the Naked Sun.
>Meanwhile the Original Life Fiber takes off heading for Honnouji
I wish that Gamagori and Sangeyama both had fights. I would have loved to see Nui vs Monkey, his sword looks so beastly and he only lost to Ryoku the first time because his suit couldn't handle himself. Also Gamagori should have got a new pink car.
Also in that episode where Satsuki asked monkey if he thought he snuck up on her twists I would have had him say yes the second time she asked.
And I would have changed Gamagoris first two Goku uniforms.
>Ryuko and Nui fight on top of the Naked Sun
>Inumuta tosses Ryuko Bakuzan Koryu to fight with
>Satsuki gets up, and tells Junketsu that she's going out to fight Nui saying that he can leave if he doesn't want to fight Nui and Ragyo
>Cuts back to Ryuko and Nui fighting. Satsuki appears surprising Nui giving Ryuko an opening to cut off her Sword-wielding arm.
>Nui in shock of losing her arm gives Ryuko a chance to cut off the other arm for good measure.
>Hooumaru rescues Nui saying that she is still needed.
>Ryuko and Satsuki make their amends. Nudist Beach and Student Council are officially one in the same.
>They head off before being stopped by Hooumaru's COVERs
>Scissor Sisters take off to deal with the Original Life Fiber and Ragyo
>Using the life fibers from Nui's arms, Iori creates a 3-Star uniform for Mako who becomes the PunchGhost
>She PunchGhosts the fuck out of the Covers, gaining more Life Fibers for the others to use
>Ryuko and Satsuki fight Ragyo in the same way as in episode 23, except after Satsuki's ruse she joins Ryuko in taking out the core.
>Hoonmaru returns to Ragyo, saying she's upset on how her attack turned out. Ragyo does not care, as everything is still going keikaku door.
>Episode ends with them discussing the final plan over tea.
>They all reach Honnouji academy, finding out that Nui has been reworking Koketsu into Shinra Koketsu, who's power is supposedly stronger than both Kamuis combined
>Ragyo absorbs Hoomaru so that she can directly control the COVERs
>Ryuko/Satsuki fight off Ragyo
>Sanageyama/Nonon/Gamagori/Tsumugu fight off Nui
>Meanwhile Aikuro, Inumura, Iori, and Mako head to Satsuki's office
>Ryuko and Satsuki are on even terms with Ragyo, who tells Nui to merge with the Original Life Fiber and defeat everyone
>Iori decides to use THAT, transforming Honnouji into a giant uniform to fight off Nui
>Using the Naked Sun as a sword, combined with Senketsu Senjin Shippu/Junketsu Senpu Zenkan, they defeat Nui.
>Ragyo merges with Nui and Original Life Fiber, becoming Harime-Shinra Koketsu
>Ragyo flies into space
>Everyone trying to figure out what else they can do
>Ryuko gives her speech, everyone gives Ryuko and Satsuki their life fibers so they can go Super Sonic to go and defeat Ragyo
>They fight her off, while Ragyo tells what will happen once the COVERs take over the earth
>The two of them cross-cut her heart, dealing with her for good
>Before she passes on, she gives her whole spiel on how the Life Fibers will return
>Senketsu and Junketsu take Ryuko and Satsuki back to earth, while the two Kamui say they won't make it back with them
>Senketsu and Junketsu burn up mid-entry
>They are caught by everyone on top of Honnouji Robo
>Last five minutes of the episode are the flashback seen in the ending expanded out, seeing everyone a year later.
>Ryuko hears a voice in a crowd that sounds like Senketsu, but she can't figure out where it is coming from.
>Cue THE END
The plothole here isn't that Ragyou's powers are never explained, the plot hole is that Ragyo is part life-fiber, but still has to research how to do it again for her daughters.
>Mfw Aikurou was the only main character to not get completely nude throughout the whole show
It's disappointing because they made it irrelevant and her being dead then would've made the flow a bit better in the end with more focus on ragyo.
22 was good, especially for being in the lackluster second half, but not quite what I was hoping for. 24 wasn't even that bad, just rushed and should've been two episodes
Yeah. I was just wondering. I mean some minor things can go wrong but this was a pretty major plot point. They started showing those S?ichir? -Satsuki scenes since episode 3 and the last one of them was shown in episode 18. And just one episode later they show a whole scenes that contradicts the whole flashback stuff that was shown until then.
It seems like they aren't planning the plot together or like they don't proofread their stuff. I don't know how such a thing can even happen.
But would you be saying 22 was disapponting if Nui had died some other way in ep 24? Say for example, she didn't kill herself in some perverted state of ecstasy, but instead was humiliated and gutted by Ryuuko or someone else? Nui had been inflicting pain and suffering on Ryuuko since before she was even introduced as an official character, it was cathartic as fuck to see her get some dished back to her with her arms getting lopped off. With antagonists like that you don't want them to die quickly, you want to see them suffer for all the suffering they themselves had caused.
>A plot hole, or plothole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot, sometimes even contradicting itself. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or, statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.
So tell me, how is it not a plot-hole?
it was a much simpler time back in the single digit episodes of Kill la Kill.
>Nui is a "tragic villain"
>Literally no one fucking thought this before they revealed this in an interview
>After the fact some people actually pieced together some reasons why she's tragic but it doesn't come across well in the show at all.
Holy shit, this is terrible writing. You can obviously see why Ryuko is a tragic character, when they start turning Satsuki good you can see how she suffered as well. Trigger obviously wanted to make all 3 of Ragyou's daughters tragic characters but it doesn't come across that way in the show at all. There's no indication she secretly hates being allowed to do whatever she wants or that she's really jealous of Satsuki.
Because revealing how Ragyou was hybridized doesn't change the actual plot of the story and it introduces nothing new to the central conflict or plot of the story overall except maybe some background fluff. Revealing how it happened might, at most, give her character a bit more depth. That's it. Her being a hybrid doesn't contradict he trying to find out how to make hybrids, considering the obvious fact that she doesn't know how it happened to her in the first place.
so whatever happened to Nui anyways? did Ryuuko absorb her or some shit?
Nui got absorbed into OLF/barrier thing. OLF/barrier thing merged with SK and turned into a rocket. Senketsu absorbed everyone's goku uniforms and then absorbed SK/OLF/barrier thing.
Then Senketsu burned up during re-entry ;_;so they're all dead.
>that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot
Because how can she be fused with Life Fibers when she was conducting researches on how to ignore the natural rejection of Life Fibers?
>or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot
This one is even more obvious. I mean, there could be an explanation that makes sense, but we don't have it.
>Because revealing how Ragyou was hybridized doesn't change the actual plot of the story
Holy shit, I sure hope so, or that would mean that the writing is even shittier than it already is.
Anyone care to explain what Trigger was trying to show here? Was it really as simple as Ryuuko being part life-fiber and Senketsu taking a "banshi" thread from her?
>Because how can she be fused with Life Fibers when she was conducting researches on how to ignore the natural rejection of Life Fibers?
>she doesn't know how it happened to her in the first place.
>>or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot
It's not relevant information regarding the plot though.
I'm rewatching those parts again and I don't see the issue.
Could just be I'm using HS
18: Satsuki says she was five when daddy told her
19: Ragyo says he entrusted his revenge to Satsuki then fled with Ryuuko. The little Ryuuko has hair that is not present in her newborn appearance in episode 18 when she is dumped.
It's not clear, you're right, but it's hardly what I would call ruined.
Here you have a slightly extreme interpretations of her actions with and without the word of god:
Without Nakashima's infodrop:
ep20 - Nui gives Ryuko a COME TO THE DARK SIDE speech, confusing her and making Junketsu rape possible
ep21 - Nui wants to join in on the funsies
ep22 - self explanatory, she fucking hates everyone and is mad that her plan failed and that she got disarmed
ep23 - Nui still mad, got augs, is Ragyo's lackey
ep24 - Nui goes all out mook mode and then Hoomarus herself into Shinra Koketsu, happy that she could become clothes.
With Nakashima's infodrop:
ep20 - Nui tries to "befriend" her soul sister in a completely wrong, sad and twisted way
ep21 - Nui doesn't want to lose her soul sister
ep22 - Nui gets mad that her soul sister brutally rejected her, quite probably wants to just stay there and die
ep23 - Nui melts away because of Ragyo's kindness, is still angry and bitter about Ryuko
ep24 - Nui fights for her mommy and makes her proud, finally feeling loved at the end of her life.
True, extreme. Those ideas were tossed around by Nuifags back when episodes 20-22 were airing, and only the Nakashima statemed pushed the dial from the first one being more likely to the second option being truth.
They did fucking awful job with her in the end.
>Was it really as simple as Ryuuko being part life-fiber
That wasn't even introduced as a thing at this point in the series. It was just to show that Senketsu has multiple banshi and that Nui wouldn't be able to destroy Senketsu as easily as she did Sanageyama's 3star.
But I mean 22 still could've done both.
Ryuuko could've just started cutting off limb by limb, mocking Nui as she did and causing Nui to turn into a much angrier Black Knight as she hopped about until there was nothing left, then have Hououmaru come with the suits but it's too late to save Nui so she flees and then nudisto beach and devas use the suction guns to save the club members.
Where do you think he learned how to sew?
No wonder he doesn't want to talk about it.
Right after Ryuko and Satsuki made up in episode 22 Nakashima did an interview with Newtype where he revealed some shit, he said things like "Ryuko and Satsuki wanted to connect to each other before the sister reveal" but also something about Nui being a tragic villain who's jealous of the love Satsuki and Ryuko get from their mother.
Satsuki was Ragyou's heir, she got her mothers last name, Nui got a different name, her name essentially means "sewing machine" so that's all she is to Ragyou. She wanted to do something and be important to her mother, she couldn't wear Junketsu so she was upset about that. That's why she sacrificed herself so gleefully in the last episode, she was finally incredibly useful to her mother, she saved her life and kept the plan going. She was taught by Ragyou to think herself as better than humans so she probably felt alienated. When she said to Ryuko that she was the only one who could understand her, apparently she wasn't trying to make Ryuko upset by comparing herself to her, she was serious and wanted to connect with Ryuko because they were both the same thing. Hell she probably also hated the fact that Satsuki started gushing over Ryuko as soon as she was revealed to be her sister yet never treated her as anything other than shit even though they're the exact same thing.
Then again this all fanfiction and guesses, really. We don't know what Satsuki's relationship with Nui was prior to this, so you can't exactly fault her for anything and you don't even know if Nui is upset about that shit.
>>she doesn't know how it happened to her in the first place.
So it just happenned? Fuck the human rejection of Life Fibers? Wow, great writing.
But that's just your headcanon. There is nothing to indicate that she doesn't know it.
>It's not relevant information regarding the plot though.
>Why did the main villain got her powers and came to want Life Fibers to eat humanity isn't relevant to the plot
So here we go, Nudisto Shafted Character wall of fame:
First place: Nui for clusterfuck arrested development and straight out needing to know what the author had in mind to understand her character.
First place ex-aequo: Junketsu for not even being a character after all.
Second place: Rei. She (maybe) died as she lived, completely irrelevant.
Third place: Tsumugu, for anti-life fiber blunder of the century, pointless infodrop, unknown debt and endless jobbing.
Fourth place: Satsuki for proving her mother right in the finale.
Fifth place: Aikuro for who the fuck are you anyway and DTR extravaganza.
Sixth place: non-Gama devas, for being completely fucking useless since episode 18 and devolving into resolve robots for reasons unknown. Honorable mention to Uzu for jobbing to a fucking condom.
Seventh place: Ragyo, for never explaining how the fuck she became the god empress of clothing.
Audience Award goes to Takarada for literally getting shafted with a 10 foot long stick.
Honourable Mentions: Life Fiber Bullet, Kinue, Life Fibers in General, All of Nudist Beach, Maiko, Characters not name Ryuko or Mako.
This is fucked up and bothers me a lot.
Why couldn't they just take a moment to come right out and say this stuff, instead of making us piece it together like a detective, having to even resort to material outside the show itself.
I think some people might not have sperged out so bad over Nui had they known this information.
I don't know, the only explanation would be that Ryuuko was already 4 (and therefore, Satsuki 5) in the scenes of episode 19, since Soichirou hadn't changed his body yet when Satsuki was 5. But this can't be due to Ryuuko's look (she is 1-2 years old at best), the fact that she didn't remember how her father suddently changed and became a 70 year old guy and the fact that he never told Satsuki anything about her sister being alive, even though he was already raising her for 4 years during that scene.
And it was all completely unnecessary in the end. They could have kept her as Ragyo lite cartoon psycho instead of adding this little amount of depth to her, especially since the show wasn't able to carry it in any way.
It really was something we should have seen. Ragyou and Nui should have probably been introduced earlier so we could get a proper backstory on them, you start turning Satsuki in to a good guy earlier so you can fill in these relationships they had with Satsuki a little better, or in Nui's case, fill it out at a fucking all.
If you have to reveal that a character is "tragic" in an interview and then have people go back and try find cryptic reasons as to why that is that's terrible writing.
There were some hints of Nui's jealousy towards Satsuki, and Ryuuko to an extent. Nui did also state how she wanted to connect with Ryuuko in ep20 or 21 (don't remember which specifically). Nui was never sympathetic though, so maybe that could be considered a failing. Personally I don't really consider it much of a failing other than maybe giving Nui some more depth. They made her into an effective villain that you love to hate.
I think Ryuuko says she never saw her father until she was a little older, or that she rarely saw him because he was busy and I think the sister thing is touched on a bit in 19 when Ragyo mocks Satsuki saying how she was used to do his dirty work without even knowing the wole story.
>There is nothing to indicate that she doesn't know it.
That's why she's conducting research on how to recreate it right? And why her experiments even failed with Satsuki? Because she already knows how to do it?
Are you actually retarded?
>day 25: today she once again snuck into my bed. i wish she didn't hog the blanket.
>day 27: she found my newest dress design "cute" and ordered me to go make it.
>day 29: i finished my work. now i have to wear it. to emphasize that, she took away my clothes.
>day 35: she finally returned my clothes and gave me few muffins as a "reward". they were really good.
>day 37: i can't remember what i did the past two days, but she's giggles whenever she sees me. guess it's a lesson for the future.
>day 38: she decided that my lab coat interferes with my sewing, so i was given a replacement attire. it was a sock.
I am a sucker for stories with plot twists and shit but I clearly prefer something simple for anime like KlK. I could have lived with more episodes like 5 or 6 and more character scenes and location changes instead.
How did Ragyou even fucking know he did that in the first place?
I remember when people thought she was bullshitting to Satsuki precisely because of that reason. She knows EXACTLY what he did even though she didn't realize that was her husband until like 6 months ago?
>She and Tsumugu basically existed as red herrings and that's it.
No. Kinue existed pretty much for the sole reason of illuminating Tsumugu's motivations. That's pretty much it.
Also, please learn what a red herring is.
ragyo pieces together a lot of shit, but it's just to make sure the viewer understands the bad writing. Like how she knew EXACTLY what Ryuuko did in episode 23 to avoid getting cut in half completely
Problem is, unless you went eight miles deep those hints were lost in her prior characterization as Harime Nui, Grand Couturier who loves "fun" and everything cute.
>there's nothing to indicate that it happened in a way she doesn't know.
But there is; the very fact that she's conducting the research in the first place. She never talked about it because it wasn't important to the story. What is important to the story is that Ryuuko was hybridized by Ragyou's experiments and she was kept secret by her father.
Damn, me too. I like this series but it's interesting how much shit you are able to find if you dicsuss the plot from the to time. I think I'll rewatch it the next week or something. Just out of curiosity.
>intended to look like people who were related to Ryuko
No. Just because he has red and black hair doesn't mean shit, and we have seen pretty much nothing of what Kinue's face actually looks like.
Exactly what I thought, Inu was such a pointless character that never did fucking anything (other than exposition dump), just have one "smart" guy doing all the stuff they both do
>Nui did also state how she wanted to connect with Ryuuko in ep20 or 21
Nui's prior characterization was that she liked to fuck with people, remember when she gleefully told Ryuko "TEEHEE, I KILLED YOUR DAD RYUKO-CHAN". You could easily take that "I'm the only one who can understand you, you're just like me!" as a way to make Ryuko angry because Nui would obviously know that Ryuko fucking hates her and would not want to be compared to her at all. Ryuko thinks she's a monster at that time, she would NOT want to be compared to Nui.
>most people hated her for shallow reasons, like her appearance and personality.
>Not her actions.
People would still hate her if she looked completely different. The hatred towards her appearance and personality stem from that original hatred of the characters actions in a sort of post hoc manner. You look for other secondary reasons to hate a character even more after it's been established how fucked up they are through their actions.
So it's not important to know how Ragyo became part Life Fiber while it wasn't possible because the natural rejection of Life Fibers and thus got her philosophy and the power to become the main villain of the show? Even if she doesn't know how it happened, it deserves a mention. It's way too important to forget because of what I mentioned earlier in this post.
If she looked like this and acted in a cartoonish over the top way she wouldn't be so despised, I'm sure of it.
I can agree to an extent that those hints of jealousy weren't incredibly overt or apparent. Nui is a rather distracting character to begin with anyways and her absurdly bubbly personality lends itself to a lot of masking of any sort of deeper emotion.
If you feel it would add more depth to her character then I would probably agree. Do I think it's necessary? No. Would I have liked to see something revealed in that regard? I don't really care either way honestly.
That still doesn't mean that it's a plot-hole though.
They could've made her eyesmile thing be a mood indicator instead.
I would not be surprised to find out that the people who hate Nui probably have Ryuko as their favorite character in this show, Nui caused their character to suffer more than she already was before, Nui killed her dad like 5 minutes before Ryuko might have had a possible reconciliation with him. If you wonder why Ryuko became so attached to Satsuki in a matter of like 2 days that's why, she finally found family and isn't letting her go. other than the father killing she really fucked with Ryuko in other ways as well, even IF Nui supposedly was not trying to do those things out of direct malice and simply just did not know how to properly handle the situation.
Not him and maybe she really doesn't know but this is still stupid. If even Satsuki couldn't fuse with the LF because she was one year old (even Ryuuko was a failed experiment at first) then how is it possible that it happened to Ragyou? I think explaining how the evil mastermind managed to become who he is is a pretty important plot point. This show is full of scenes nobody needs that felt like open subplots but then they don't explain something as important as this.
>Do I think it's necessary? No.
So you think it's not necessary for the plot to make sense? Because right now, it doesn't. How could Ragyo become part Life Fibers? It seems impossible, considering the informations we have. Right now, it's a plothole.
Does anyone have the image of MEN-DOU-KOTE with all the guys doing the chants for Electric Shamisen?
Have Electric Shamisen Intensifying.
>Nui's prior characterization was that she liked to fuck with people
Right. I'm not denying that. She did state it however, but given the fact that the way Nui's character was handled she was never a character that demanded sympathy in the first place. I'm basically saying that Nui threw that information out there, not that her revealing those emotions would actually make any of us (the audience) nor any of the main characters actually give a shit about her own tragedy.
I can see how Nui could be considered a tragic villain in the loosest sense of the word, but like I said, her actions and personality don't really lend themselves to sympathy.
Kill la Kill had much more wasted potential that Gurren Lagann though.
Gurren Lagann beat in and built up the whole drill metaphor for the entire show, whereas KLK had something about clothes which wasn't really developed.
Gurren Lagann built up the final villain, and gave us a satisfying final battle, and left half of the final episode for wrapping things up. KLK kept trying to surprise us with "THIS ISN'T EVEN MY FINAL FORM", and had 30 seconds to wrap things up at the end. Hell, the epilogue was in the credits.
Nui's tragicness as a general idea was not that horrible, but it got assfucked by the way Nui was introduced and her subsequent appearances, and by the way that in the end it was not shaped properly.
I liked the brainwashing since it led way into this, but then I was let down by the fight and wish it never happened
>I can see how Nui could be considered a tragic villain in the loosest sense of the word, but like I said, her actions and personality don't really lend themselves to sympathy.
and that's exactly why Trigger dropped the ball with her and she's poorly written, because she was supposed to. You were likely intended to sympathize with Nui when she sacrificed herself for Ragyou, she used a deeply affectionate word for mother when she did it, too. Trigger likely intended you to think "oh my god that's sad" instead people thought "oh, she's speaking french again".
KLK had a good premise for the most part, the "don't lose your way!" thing. Don't let fashion and other's views rule you, be your own person and find your own way. It wasn't THAT awful, even if corny.
poster of >>104594213 again
I dislike them because of how they could have been so good, how it could have added so much more to what they were trying to do, but they executed it incredibly poorly.
>So you think it's not necessary for the plot to make sense?
For fucks sake and for the thousandth time, revealing how it happened to Ragyou wouldn't fill in any plot-holes nor would it make the plot make any more sense because the plot doesn't demand that we know in the first place. Us not knowing how it happened to Ragyou doesn't change anything regarding to the plot, it would only introduce some background information and give her character a bit more depth. You can keep crying that this is a "plot-hole" till you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the simple fact that it's simply not a plot-hole.
>Because right now, it doesn't. How could Ragyo become part Life Fibers? It seems impossible, considering the informations we have. Right now, it's a plothole.
Try actually using your brain when reading, this time.
TTGL itself was fairly coherent. It's the movies that really went full "TTGL treatment", with complete emphasis on flash over substance
I don't think it's awful, it just wasn't well executed. Compare this to TTGL the plot is written around the symbolism, KLK seems to be written around cool scenes. (For example, what does the final battle even have to do with individualism?)
The Mako episode was really well produced and cool. It had good gags too. I would place it in my top 5 too. However, I meant that it was clumsy in how it handled her family's betrayal. That's what I think, at least.
You are right that the shift of tone came at 8 and forward and it's like they pissed away a bunch of time until the New Year with Nui crashing the tournament.
People are right about Nudist Beach too. They served little purpose in the end. And Nui was just some psychopath there to provoke the heroines and act frustrated when stuff happened. And Ragyo started rambling about the demise of the universe at the finale when she should have done so 10 episodes earlier.
KLK had lots of fun moments and the highest potential I've ever seen. KLK episode 1 & 2 are probably some of the best episodes I've seen in any show, hands down. It's frustrating.
I meant, for the most part. They dropped it somewhere around 23 with the whole NONSENSE shit took hold. It was a great phrase and worked very well in 22, but in 23 and finale it was incredibly wank.
>However, almost nobody gave enough fucks to piece the hints together.
But you can't blame them, and it's not even that, it's just poor writing overall because the ONLY reason people really tried to piece this hints together was because Trigger came out and told us what their intention for Nui.
It's very unlikely that the people who watch this show after the fact and not while it was airing originally will read that interview and thus what Trigger tried to get across with Nui won't come across at all.
I'll give you one, but two? It felt more like a repeat of one, which I guess yeah still makes it good but takes a the charm out. I still like it though, but I wouldn't say best.
It's ridiculous how little dialogue they even have. Almost all of it is meaningless plot or fight exposition, nothing about their characters, and maybe one or two lines of banter if we're lucky. They barely feel like people, especially in the second half.
Uzu's shit that was thrown away immediately after the natural elections, and then he became just a generic goon to fight things, really.
Inu who is incredibly fucking boring and never does anything at all. The most important thing he ever did was sit in with NB's for the exposition dumps.
Nonon who repeats that Monkey shit a dozen times because they can't think up any other banter. We know barely anything about her, other than that childhood friends thing which could've been used in a major way for actual development, but it was just thrown away in one or two lines (inb4 that screencap)
Aikurou is pretty much NOTHING but exposition dump after exposition dump in the second half. They distract the audience with shining nipples, but he does literally nothing else. They tried that DTR joke like twice but good god, do something fucking more, Trigger.
And then there's Tsomugu, who never does or says anything at all, even after his huge fucking buildup. They don't even give him any jokes, they could've at least had him say that "2 important things" or whatever the shit in the last episodes.
I would've loved to see an episode of the Devas just going about their daily business with their clubs and training and actually talking to each other, instead most first half scenes were just just sitting silently in that room matsurbating to their resolve for Satsuki, and second half scenes were just fights.
They were trying to make Nui tragic? I never noticed. She was always an unapologetic psycho bitch who loved to toy with people's emotions before brutally murdering them. She got even worse near the end, when she completely snapped and just started swinging her new sword arms at whoever was in reach, before chopping her own head off and becoming a giant creepy Life Fiber head that fused with her "maman" in the creepiest way possible.
But that's the thing, that's just speculation by the people who were infatuated with the character anyways, if she's supposed to be tragic that should come across to ALL the viewers, it shouldn't just be spit balling by people who are solely big fans of the character.
Since episode 23 took up two vertical slots, I propose that episode 24 take up three horizontal slots, and just be the four guys added to the conga line of naked people catching Ryuko.
Aikuro was busy boning Nonon and Sukuyo after the time skip.
I agree. I fucking loved the Deva novel but I wish they would have included this shit into the actual anime. It's similar with Nui. Someone who watches KlK later won't ever read or find this specific old Newtype issue that contained their whole backstories. I don't say they had to show everything, but we had so many repetitive scenes in this series - why couldn't they just hint some of these things?
this was my one problem with the series
It looks like they just wrote it as they went along. Not enoughplanning
Jesus, that was really badly expressed in the show. I don't want to feel like an idiot by missing subtext, but did anyone else get that? She did say she felt jealous in 22 I think, but they didn't do anything else with that in the next two or I guess they tried.
Not the same anon but I feel the opposite actually. First cour took up a bit too much time without much in terms of plot advancement. As a result second cour didn't feel like it had enough time to unfold.
I meant when it comes down to characterization and worldbuilding. They could compress it more, they could remove filler episodes and maybe even trash the school trip to make room for 2nd cour to make sense.
But they didn't.
Not him but if it's important to explain why something is resolved it's also important to explain how the problem even started in the first place.
Not only that, we learn that humans can't mix with LF unless they are using newborn babies as guinea pigs and still Ragyou was a LF human. Of course they should explain this.
No, it's perfectly understandable why you wouldn't think any of the second meanings he posted considering that most of them basically contradicted her prior characterization.
It makes more sense to take her lines in 20 as ways to make Ryuko more upset instead of an absolutely sincere way of her trying to connect with Ryuko.
If Ryuuko rose to prominence because she deserved it, it would be a much better show. There are too few shows that reward characters for being competent because of hard work and perseverance. Is this all symbolism against Asia's idea of "work hard and you'll be rewarded"?
I definitely agree that first cour was great for character introductions, building on characterizations and worldbuilding. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike first cour at all, but they certainly could have compressed it more to make more room for the 2nd cour.
No. I think it only ever happened with people who really were into Nui and started to create head canons and shit. Nobody else ever saw anything else in Nui than the crazy psycho moeblob.
>it's also important to explain how the problem even started in the first place.
Then look no further than OLF crash landing on Earth and using humans as food. As far as Ragyou goes her backstory isn't as important since she's basically a vehicle or conduit for the OLF's actions.
>No characters in TTGL are wasted
What? Yes they were. Practically every other member of team Gurren was just in the background and did nothing of relevance or importance aside from dying in the end.
She's not a brainless puppet. She has motives, desires. They need to explain why, how she became the OLD's vessel. That's truly how the conflict between Ragyo and Ryuuko began.
It just frustrates me so much to see such well-designed characters used so HORRIBLY. It's that terrible loss of potential, especially from all those written backstories. They didn't even fucking bother characterizing them properly in the show beyond their basic design.
And I have to say it again, it's really surprising just how little dialogue there is that isn't either plot exposition or generic fight commentary.
Senketsu's death scene could have been a lot better if it wasn't blatantly fucking obvious he was going to die at the end. As soon as Satsuki go through episode 23 just fine that confirmed any suspicions I had of him surviving, I knew they were going to have Senketsu die in the finale so Ryuko would fully accept Satsuki as her sister, and what do you know, Senketsu dies, Ryuko literally falls right in to Satsuki's arms and says "I'm home, nee-san". So obvious, this is how Ryuko's character works, she had to almost kill Senketsu and Mako to realize how important they were to her, so Satsuki was either going to have to get hurt or Senketsu would have to die for her to want to fill the hole he left with Satsuki.
We were given that information. The conflict begins with life fibers on Earth.
>She's not a brainless puppet.
>She has motives, desires.
Aside from seeking out the ecstasy of wearing life fibers, her motives and desires align completely with those of the OLF.
>They need to explain why, how she became the OLD's vessel.
No. No they don't. I wouldn't mind if they did, but it's not necessary to the plot.
This. Same here. That's one of the reasons why I loved Gama so much and maybe Satsuki as well, even though she was gifted. But they worked for the things they achieved and kept on fighting after they lost. I like Ryuuko, but she only became the hero because of the classical power-ups that just happen whenever she needs it like during the Natural Selection. People always bitch about all the jobbers, but it wasn't their fault. Monkey and Tsumugu were fucking awesome in episode 5 and 6. It's just that the typical plot twist happened when they reveal that the MC is some artificial created super human being.
I consider myself pretty smart. I even understood the subtext of End of Evangelion on the first watch!
But I didn't get Nui's character beyond unlikable looney tunes psychopath.
You're not the only one who thinks this way, OP.
>That's truly how the conflict between Ragyo and Ryuuko began.
It began with this. The conflict between humanity and Life Fibers is what began with the OLD crashing on earth.
Anyway, you're really annoying and avoiding any point I make by spouting the same shit again and again, you're worse than a fucking wall. I'm done with this shitty conversation.
That scene was great. The only way it could've been better was if Takarada was also there in a rebuilt Crab DTR and they made a Super Ultimate Triple Naked DTR.
The thing that annoys me is how quickly they went from seemingly rivals to best bros. Lots of people were predicting a split among the Devas exactly because they felt like potential rivals with each other. I mean Gama literally whipped Monkey in one episode.
It doesn't really matter now though, I hope they just do some fun friend things in the OVA together.
Still, the anime heavily hinted that the fusing with life fibers wasn't possible, usually. So it is important unless they want it to look unfinished or like some open plot hole.
If the anime says "x isn't possible" and yet "x happened once" then they have to explain why and how it happened.
I fucking hate Nui, I laughed my goddamn ass off whenever she suffered and sincerely hoped she would die with every episode that reminded me she existed. It was still easy to pick out where they were going with her, that she was sincere about wanting to be with Ryuko and devastated when it didn't happen.
There's a shitton wrong with the show, but I think the thing with Nui is just viewers not paying attention.
Ryuko is supposed to have regenerative powers, right?
Then why did Senketsu felt the need to protect her from re-entry? I mean, she would've survived that without having Senketsu burn up. She went throught worst.
That's nice. You're still an idiot who doesn't know what a plot-hole is. Maybe one day you'll actually learn how to analyze what the fuck you're even watching in order to have an intelligent conversation.
>An entire episode to himself based solely on his personal character and power development
>Only Deva to have defeated Ryuuko
>Never gets a rematch and claims he still wants one
>The only Deva to outperform his uniform
>The only Deva to have a power outside of his uniform that evolves (Tengantsu, Shigantsu, Enlightenment)
>Was the only Deva to get a faded screenshot with Satsuki
>Was the only Deva to get a faded screenshot with Nui in the Ragyo stadium
>Was the only Deva still fighting after an entire month after the stadium explodes
>Was the only Deva who got a uniform montage in Ep. 23
Trigger hyped the fuck out of Uzu, only to give fucking Gamagoori the spotlight.
They essentially wasted so much time with Uzu, who did fuck all in the final episode.
I think Senketsu might have been destroyed anyways, it was just more dramatic for him to protect her. Or maybe she could have actually died if she went down like that, she would have burned up and eroded and wouldn't be able to regenerate.
Satsuki also desperately ran up to her and leaped up to catch her sister, but then again I guess you could explain that away as her being caught up in the moment, Ryuko might have been fine had she just hit the dirt anyways but Satsuki doesn't know that for sure and is not going to risk losing her sister on a hunch.
>Other than those two nothing else is alike
You mean the actual scene isn't happening? Well, that's right, but that doesn't mean the story actually changed.
Maybe they just didn't have the time for this scene after that, or they changed the scene to make something more entertaining. This kind of things always happens in anime production. Doesn't mean the script actually changed.
>Your show isn't perfect, admit it.
Can something really be perfect?
Of course not.
>while I back up my claims with the definition of plothole
You can keep claiming it's a plot-hole, but it doesn't change the fact that it's simply not. Furthermore, citing the definition of plot-hole did nothing for your argument since you still manage to misunderstand what a plot-hole is despite the fact.
It's like saying if, in Star Wars, they never revealed that Darth Vader was actually Luke's father. Would it be a plot hole if we didn't know that? No. Would the overall story be weaker if they never revealed that? Yes.
Yeah? Does simon and boota go around in a space boat? Are simon's clothes even remotely similar to the ones in the final episodes?
We've been discussing this since 2007. They didn't plan it out since the beginning, they only knew they'd go to space eventually. Just because they didn't plan it out doesn't mean the show is bad, for fuck's sake.
>Would it be a plot hole if we didn't know that?
No, it's not, because if they didn't reveal that, then it simply wouldn't exist in the Star Wars universe.
They totally needed to explain how and why Vader became how he is, though.
Godammit, you baited me again.
>but having them all die was important
Yeah, that was probably important, but still, what does it say for your character when the only important thing you do in order to contribute to the advancement of the plot is to die? That makes you a throwaway character. Especially when they never attempt to expand on that character.
I'm thinking that if Ryuko protected Senketsu instead of having him burn up, he could've survived by Ryuko cutting his eye before being completly torn apart before landing.
It leave a bitter taste in my mouth, because in the end Ryuko is the only one to have a Bittersweet end.
>Satsuki become president of REVOCS, get her sister back
>Devas are fine, Gama can propose to Mako
>Mako get Ryuko as BFF confirmed forever after and all that shit
>Nudist Beach might have jobbed hard, but they're still alive, they only lost their DTR
>Meanwhile, Ryuko lose her (literally) closest friend
I guess she can finally live a normal life, but still.
We'll never find out.
Show went downhill once Nui showed up and all the enemies became basically invincible
I liked some characters like Satsuki a lot, but the plot went sideways after episode 12
Yeah. It certainly felt like they would do this during the first cour. Gama and especially Uzu even got their own episode (the others were arena-only things) which made it seem like they'd get more development later (including Nonon and Inu) and I guess they would have explained the things from the novel there because, unlike many other things in this show, the novel infos really fit well to what we have seen of the Devas during the first half.
I never said not explaining Vader's past would be a plothole. They needed to do it because it's nearly always required if you don't want your villain to be a shitty character.
But he doesn't have a power that was explicitely stated to be impossible in the movies. Ragyo did. Not explaining how she got it is a plothole.
I feel like I'm the only one that thinks Gamagoori should've stayed dead. I love the guy but seriously, why kill him and make a huge fuss about it to just "revive" him anyway?
He should've gone Kittan tier at least.
>But he doesn't have a power that was explicitely stated to be impossible in the movies. Ragyo did.
She did? She was the same as Ryuuko so it's pretty clearly implied that however she got the way she was it probably happened in a similar way.
>Not explaining how she got it is a plothole.
No you idiot.
Nobody said what, that only life fibers can match life fibers?
Nobody SAID it, but it was obvious.
And if you expect Tsumugu to get a power-up to make a move on any of those three, especially since they all only continued to get more powerful themselves, he'd HAVE to don life fibers himself, and that'd go against his character.
It's barely even fight commentary. It's just the shouting people do when they attack. Or Gama's short shield speeches for Satsuki or students which were rather cute somehow but still.
I was on board until he said that cutting Satsuki's hair ruined her character
>Then why was she conducting researches on how to do it?
Because she obviously either didn't know the specifics of how it happened to her and she wanted to try and recreate it.
Fuck that was so hard. Such a glaring plot-hole.
Well, the aesthetic and atmosphere were so perfect. The episodes never get boring no matter how many times I watch them. It really felt like it was going to be the coolest show in years, with a rough girl fighting fascist club chairmen with supersuits.
They just had to add useless characters and aliens.
Please Trigger, just give them more than 5 minutes of screen time in the OVA. I've had enough Ryuuko and Mako to last me a lifetime.
>implying you don't need more qt la qt in your life
WHEN, ever? What is the probability that it will happen in Ryuko and the rest of the cast's lifetimes?
After it all ended NOBODY except for Honnouji people even knew about the coccooning.
They implied it. Regardless it's not a necessary facet of the plot they need to explain in the first place since it doesn't add jack shit to the plot or how it progresses. Please learn what a plot-hole is and come back later.
Many of these are good enough to hang on your wall. The aesthetic disappeared after the Mako episode.
Not to speak about his whole development and his actions and changing of attitudes toward Satsuki. It was the first time that I got those TTGL feelings in KlK and I was curious as fuck to find out what would happen with Monkey after that even though he wasn't even my favorite Deva. Because it really seemed like he would leave Satsuki at that point because he only wanted to follow the strongest, and it seemed to him like Satsuki wasn't that much stronger anymore. She probably was, but it didn't seem like Monkey thought that way.
It actually really surprised me how he was still the Satsuki lapdog after this. This didn't make any sense to me after his almost arrogant behaviour towards Satsuki at the end of episode 6.
I would have fucking killed for more schoolyard fights.
And what did imply that? The only thing she says is "So two years is too old, we'll have to try with the one in my belly" or "Even with my genes, the natural rejection of Life Fibers is too strong?"
Oh, okay, sorry I misunderstood.
Well, I guess him saying he was going to train was just to highlight his determination, as afterwards we got insight into his past and motivations.
Besides, again, can you really expect him to do anything much but be a background character in the face of the powerhouses?
Mark I Deva tier was shit compared to the end-season big guys, they'd have got mowed through.
Gama was always important. It seemed to me like they were about to show the different ways of the Devas there. That they'd show how Monkey slowly detaches himself from Satsuki and becomes some lonely rival to Ryuuko while Gama gets more scenes that show that he is a good, although perverted, guy and develope in some conflict later since he is Satsuki's most loyal guy as well.
He was able to distract Nui and not get killed in episode 12. He could have done that alongside Aikuro to Rei, if only she was an actual character and not only shades and okay.
I mean, it's like they took a huge steamy shit over the whole original premise with these awesome clothes graded by stars.
I have a question to ask, /a/. Was this series designed deliberately as some sort of goofy metaphor for the Empire of Japan and the consequences of the Meiji Restoration?
This shot really made me realise just how well they would work as protagonists of something, each one could probably be a lead.
They've got great strong personalities, the weakest probably being Nonon but even then that's because of the show giving them the backseat and too much "Satsuki-samaaa".
Fair enough, I guess they could've made them a little more prominent, I was only really thinking in terms of the final battle, where there was only Ragyo, Nui and a ton of covers to oppose, and they did about as much as they could.
Did Rei even do anything in the cultural festival I just remember her attacking Satsuki and getting living shielded.
I'm gonna be honest, the part where Ambiguous played was pretty hype.
I guess that's what happen when you use the opening during any part of the anime.
>oh man can't wait for the twist TRIGGEEERRRR
>fuck it, they should've just kept it as monster of the week
No satisfying you people, huh?
because all Trigger does is pander. They gave it to Gamagori because it fell in with their Gamako pandering, they had fucking Satsuki hold one of the scissor swords and do a combo attack with Ryuko because they knew people wanted to see that, it didn't matter that it accomplished nothing.
I remember seeing some guy on /a/ get really mad when they gave Satsuki a scissor, I don't know what show he was watching, I was fully expecting her to get one for a split second eventually.
Something I really hated about the show was the constant references to how the whole world will be affected, but we never fucking see it. Maybe having NB do recon in some other country or something would've been cool. The whole alien plot was just badly done.
She sleeved some goons, got seemingly cut in half, reformed, got blasted into the wall by Satsuki and then SOMEHOW stopped Devas from interfering when Ragyo dempsey rolley Satsuki.
I thought she'll be a REVOCS super agent, fighting with her blitzen suit and life fiber gadgets as an enemy Nudists can fight on foot. I was so wrong that I'm still embarassed thinking about it.
Don't know about a pun, but KLK sure is a joke.
While I agree to some degree here (even though I would be buttmad nonetheless) I didn't want it for 24. The death scene there was incredibly cheap since people saw it from a mile away due to Trigger who decided to shove those Ira Mako scenes down our throats in the second half. Not to mention that it happened way to fast, he had one typical short line after the attack and then Nui went into psycho mode and the show focussed on other things.
It implies that her knowledge regarding how to make a hybrid is imperfect. From there you can guess any number of conclusions: that she might have been too young to remember how it happened to her, or maybe you can guess that OLF did something to her and practically took over her body leaving only her appearance and heart intact? Whatever "headcannon" suits your fancy. I personally don't have an explanation regarding this because I don't really give a shit, but I realize that those possibilities exist and there's any number of possible answers. None of them would actually make a difference in how the plot progresses or unfolds, nor would they make a difference in how the conflict is resolved.
It doesn't really matter. The point is it's not a plot-hole because in the context of the overall plot and conflict knowing how Ragyou got that way isn't essential. It might have made the conflict and/or her character richer in some way, depending on how the information was revealed and handled, and even if they did decide to make that information play a larger role in the story they would have had to change the plot to accommodate that new information and its importance.
If you want to make an argument that not revealing this information made Ragyou very 1-dimensional or just a generally weak character then fine. But don't call it a "plot-hole" when it's not.
I can't blame them for giving them the backseat, there's only so much time in 24 episodes after all, it was still a fantastic show in terms of character management.
>original villain turns into good guy
>keeping Mako strong
>entire other faction headed by well built characters
>Ryuko and Mako
Still, Nonon the weakest personality?
That's Houka surely
The brainwashing could have been great if it had somehow been combined with the berserk Ryuuko arc, but as it is it felt like a forced plot development to squeeze in one last Ryuuko/Satsuki fight at a point long after they had any reason to fight one another
Looks to me like someone took Kill la Kill a bit too fucking seriously and then got upset when their high expectations and standards for this show were immediately dashed.
I only enjoyed one episode of Kill la Kill from start to finish, but I'm not raging about it because from the premise and looking at the promotional images I expected nothing spectacular. If Kill la Kill wound up being a smash hit for me at the end instead of the opposite, I would have been pleasantly surprised but nothing more.
I can't believe that people are actually complaining about asspulls and character development, and characters not hooking up with other characters in a show like this. Seriously?
>People are saying that Trigger scrapped Tsumugu after the 2 week hiatus but is that even possible?
People are flat out wrong. A single episode of an anime (or a western cartoon) will be in production for months, and once something has been sent off to the animators it's extremely difficult to change anything.
It's possible that his role in the story changed, but if it did it was during the writing stage, not after the second cour started.
I knew they were going to play both OPs but I still got hype as fuck when they did.