Now that's it's practically confirmed to be a mix of the routes, what are the chances of this not being shit?
>Now that it's practically confirmed to be a mix of the routes
Good one. Regardless of what it turns out to be I'm apprehensive because of the way FSN is set up and it'll be hard to pull off a good adaption no matter how you go about it. At the very least I'll be happy to see a lot of the fight scenes done well.
Archer isn't very intent on winning the war, since he knows what the Grail's all about. The only thing he cares about after he gets over his memory issues is killing Shirou, but he's still following Rin's orders for the most part and doing what she wants with regards to the war.
Well, is this remake going to get rid of the MC and all the awful forced romance and generic characters? Probably not, so it'll suck. Pretty animation and a sweet soundtrack can only do so much.
6 was the worst KnK, but that's still miles above most other studios. Concerned isn't the right word, more like whatever word you'd use to describe sadness induced by realising something could have been so much better.
>Wanting worst girl to win.
Shirou is amazing, post more Shirou
It was pretty good as a film if you consider it in a vacuum, but like >>108984285 said if you've read the novels it was a bit disappointing since it had the potential to be Paradox Spiral tier
Shirou's just lucky he hasn't met Satsujinki.
>still miles above other studios
You mean completely ripping out the heart of a story and mashing together some drugs are bad one on top is "still miles above" others?
If ufotable does to F/SN2014 what they did with KnK6 then it'll be DEEN/Stay Night all over again with better animation.
Not even close.
F/Z did not shy away from exposition, even devoting multiple episodes on pure discussions and fleshing out characters.
They know F/SN is a big franchise. There is a bigger budget not only to animation this time around, but research. I can guarantee you they have actually gone through the VN to get an actual understanding of the characters. They have Nasu on board this time for input, who to my knowledge was not present on DEEN/Stay Night.
DEEN/Stay Night was an abomination for more than just animation, but everything. I have faith in ufotable, even with the KnK 6 director.
KnK6 is objectively a terrible adaptation.
Considering that was a section in a book (linear) and this is a layered VN (definitively non-linear) I am concerned it will be awful.
That's not even the best Satsujinki in the Nasuverse.
I'm still excited for it. KnK 6 seemed weak in general. I think people were just too eager for more of Azaka and expected it to be amazing or something so I'm not concerned about the director atm
>not even Tohno Shiki
>Why didn't Archer snipe every master and servant and win the war in 2 days?
1. what the other niggers said.
2. Remember what happened in FA when he tried that shit with Saber and Shirou?
I can't think of any logical way this isn't some terrible troll.
The only complete translation is total shit, don't read it. It does things like translate going out into hooking up (Mikiya with Shiki) and adds a lot of bloat in general, from what I remember the last time I tried reading it.
>Implying he needed a TL note for satsujinki
I think there are two (the coke one, which is probably what you mean) and the one on B-T
I read both and cross-referenced them and occasionally checked the original text since I can moonread a bit but fairly slow and laboriously
So for, KnK, it's much better to watch the anime, right?
So after I finish Tsukihime, I do Kagetsu Tohya, Melty Blood, KnK, and I'm done until the Tsukihime remake comes out and Mahou gets translated, right?
>Shit talking EB
>In reference to watching KnK6 instead
Kill yourself. cokesato is completely right and only the most hard-line literal translation wanks take issue with what he did.
Don't listen to that prick, the TL is fine and its a well structured novel. KnK6 however is fucking awful.
What if this anime turns out to be
the first ever good mix route adaptation?
>cokesato is completely right and only the most hard-line literal translation wanks take issue with what he did.
I really like his translation overall, but there are a few parts where I'd like to know his thought process behind a change since it seemed like a more literal translation would have made decent sense.
I'm excited for his Mahoyo translation, the demo was very good.
Everything but I'm on a Tsukihime high as of late.
Waiting for HA is too stressful, so I was recently going to start getting into Extra and CCC.
Throw some knowledge at me.
Yeah, the coke one is crap. I don't know why he added all of that nonsense. I can also moonread slowly.
When did I reference watching Knk 6 again? He translated it as Empty Boundary for starters, which is totally stupid.
>So it’s true then? You and the Ry?gi girl have hooked up?
Seriously? BT doesn't translate it like this, in the movie it's something like ??????, definitely more going out than hooking up. As soon as I saw that I stopped reading.
His overall reasoning is the same as just about anyone who reads fluent moon's on Nasu's writing:
His prose are good for a writer but do not translate well when made into literal english.
>Fate/Stay Night Realta Nua Patch 9 VN 101.30 hrs.
>Unlimited Blade Works Anime 2hrs.
>Fate/Zero Anime 9.35hrs
>Fate/Hollow Ataraxia VN(Partially Translated)
Fate/Strange Fake LN
>Tsukihime Anime Prologue 10mins.
>Tsukihime VN 70hrs.
>Kagetsu Tohya VN 39hr.s
>Melty Blood RE-Act PC 4hrs.
>Melty Blood Actress Again PC 4hrs.
>Carnival Phantasm Anime 4.40hrs
>Fate /Prototype Preview 23mins
>Carnival Phantasm EX/SS 46 mins.
>Fate/Kaleid Anime 3.7 hrs.
>Fate/Kaleid 2wei 3rei Manga
>Kara No Kyoukai LN
>Kara No Kyoukai Anime 14hrs.
Witch on the Holy Night VN (Partially Translated)
>Fate/Extra CCC PSP (Untranslated)
>Fate /unlimited codes PSP
>Fate/tiger colosseum Upper PSP (Untranslated)
>Battle Moon Wars PC
>Tsuki No Sango LN
>Angel Notes LN
Is my suggested route and how I did it more or less. I just ran through F/HA with the 70% Beast's Lair translation and all but 3 important scenes are now in english
HF Climax > UBW Climax > HF Majority > UBW Majority > Fate Climax > Fate Majority
(Climax is considered the last 2 days in the war before you ask)
HF > UBW > Fate
HF > UBW >= F/Z > Fate
>2. Remember what happened in FA when he tried that shit with Saber and Shirou?
but he wons, many times over. shirou and saber only won because shirou remembers the entire fight. and even than, they won because luck A
On a night at the beginning of August, Mikiya came by without any notice.
"Good evening. You look lazy as always, Shiki." The sudden visitor stands by the door as he gives a boring greeting with a smile.
It is a night somewhere in the beginning of August, and Mikiya comes
by to visit without any prior notice, as per his MO. Popping open the door,
I see him standing idly in the hallway, facing the entrance like some sort of
“Evening, Shiki. You look as lazy as ever,” he says, with a smile on his
face. A strange greeting is just the kind of thing I expected him to do.
Coke literally just adds bloat, uses stupid abbreviations like MO, and does all sorts of stupid shit, and was bad enough at Japanese he had to ask his professor for help.
So Kagetsu Tohya is about half the time of Tsukihime. How does it stand up to it? I read that it has like twice the amount of choices and it's like groundhog's day, so that got me pretty hype.
Maybe you should read the reply chain genius:
>KnK6 was weak but okay
>Did you read the novel?
>You* sperging all over EB
>Uses the example of a 90s slang being used exactly as intended in the right timeframe
Maybe you should look up what the term "hooking up" meant back then
It really comes down to what you prefer in a translation. I like the way he fleshes it out, unlike the wooden-feeling BT translation. F/SN is another example of Nasu prose being translated too literally by people without a solid grasp of what makes good English writing.
KT sounds great on paper until you look at the flowchart and realize its a mess.
Reason: It has both re-settable *and* unre-setable flags that interact with eachother which makes it unreasonably easy to mess up and lock off small parts of the game and or be completely lost.
That said: There are some great scenes in it and many of the linear dreams are awesome
My advice: Run through it blind and then use the guide http://kiserai.net/kt.html on a new file when you even think* you're stuck (I wasted 3 hours trying to get past a blocked flag).
If you like the groundhog day setup you will like F/HA though, it takes the lessons they learned from making Kagetsu such a labyrinth.
The original Japanese is:
I would hardly call Coke's writing to be solid English writing, but it's not terrible. The main problem is he just adds tons of bloat and translates things completely inaccurately, liked the aforementioned "hooked up."
Yeah, I don't think hooked up meant dating in the 90's. Also you should only translate a slang expression to a slang expression, not something like:
Kirei has done nothing wrong.
Why would he need to use his abilities as a counter guardian for that?
>Yeah, I don't think hooked up meant dating in the 90's
>TFW I'm a 90s kid and that was exactly what it meant
We used "shacking up" back then for casual sex and "hooking up" for casual dating
Funfact: In some 90s subs they use the latter term a lot
I'm not saying that coke's translation is perfect. You're right that there are some unnecessary changes and other issues, but from my perspective it's significantly better than the alternative, which is the type of thing that makes Nasu's writing have a bad reputation in Western circles.
As for the whole idiom thing, I didn't grow up in an English-speaking country so the whole issue goes a bit over my head.
Again, ???? literally just means associating with or keeping somebody company, and is absolutely not slang the way "hooking up" is, so the best translation would be hanging out or going out. Of course this is a really small thing and I'd be fine with the translation if this was the only idiosyncrasy. But Coke translating: >>108988676
is inexcusable. In general he adds too much bloat and takes away from the original Japanese prose and language's conciseness with his stupid shit.
I'm cautiously optimistic that it will be good.
Guy, you are just flat out wrong about the hook up thing and its merely an issue of generational gap.
Here's wikipedia's relevant entry on the 90s slang: "Meet up, or making a connection between people"
I do however understand your problem with:
Nasu spends enough time musing as is so adding coke's padding is a reasonable pet peeve. But I chalk that up to taste and in my opinion: Getting stuff like picture related instead because purists want literal translations is just as bad.
I admit I was wrong about it. But hook up, even with the meaning of dating is still a bad translation for ????, which is less slangy. I absolutely don't want a literal translation, and hate "purists." My problem is exactly like you stated, coke's prose is horrible and he adds a lot of unnecessary content in an attempt to add style. And I wouldn't really even trust his skills as a translator enough to be assured there are no factual errors, but that would only matter if it wasn't so painful just to read his crap in the first place.
You know, I'm fine with a bit of loose translation in the name of flow.
But reading the original, then just rewriting it completely from memory or whatever the fuck is going on here, I'm not okay with.
Exactly, I don't know why somebody's defending him. First section of the first chapter stats:
Japanese: 1539 characters
By necessity, English is going to be longer because it doesn't have Kanji, but Coke adds random things, and changes details, like the fact that Mikiya threw the bag with the Haagen-Dazs. Cokesakto is just an idiot that doesn't understand suboordinate clauses very well aparently. ????????????????????????????????????????
I really don't mind this. Some of his idiomatic expressions are annoying, but overall one is significantly more readable to me than the other and doesn't even deviate all that much. It's understandable if you don't like his prose style, but it's definitely a lesser of two evils. If you're concerned about the absolute accuracy of a specific part for some reason, just go check the original.
In short, I'd rather read coke's version than either read the BT version or not read them at all. Maybe someday my moonreading will be good enough to be able to actually enjoy reading untranslated things.
>absolute accuracy of a specific part
I don't think any of it is very accurate, see >>108989901
he just randomly changed throwing the bag to
> He holds the bag, arm outstretched,
He also just adds details that weren't there before.
One word: readability
As an avid reader: The most tiresome parts of the EB translation was by and far Nasu's page long pop-psychology spiel. For one guy taking a work and giving it a flow that works in english even though its overly verbose and rough around the edges is more important to me during the actual reading of the thing.
I'm not disagreeing with you on any of that. All I'm saying is that I like his prose style and prefer it to the other options that are available, since my primary goal in reading it in the first place is pleasure. Accuracy is nice, but is less important to me than actually being able to enjoy reading the fucking thing.
I finally got to Tohsaka's anus. That whole scene totally blind sided me, there was no build up to it at all.
>Shirou falls asleep
>suddenly fucking Rin over a desk
>"I ejaculated about a third of my internal organs and blood"
You know, a translator is supposed to give it flow and make it readable WITHOUT outright making up shit of his own. You have to change sentence structure and word things differently, but when you start adding in details and descriptions that aren't there, it becomes just fanfiction.
What gets me about this debate is that it originated from watching KnK 6 in comparison to reading the EB translation.
Whereas the differences between EB and the source are stylistic and the differences between KnK6 and the source are complete tangential ground up re-write with no heart versus good material.
Yet people insist that KnK6 is "okay" and EB is "awful"
Its pretty much supposed to "blind"-side you, notice how surprised Shirou is.
Also: Pay attention to eyes in that scene.
EB? And just looking at the first page of Coke's translation he straight up adds a detail that wasn't there in the original Japanese text in the segment I was talking about before
>Mikiya is nothing if not a multi-tasker.
That's fine if you don't care that you're reading Coke's fantasy and not what Nasu wrote.
I definitely wouldn't consider it to have good readability, but if it's readable its just because he adds lots of sentences with very little information density, which is completely the opposite of Nasu's prose which is fairly information dense.
Readibility is solely about information density and efficiency.
Really think about this line:
"The white flower is being violated by the red flower."
11's dedication to practices like flower-arrangement make that a sentence that is bristling with imagery and symbolism but it flat out doesn't work in English.
To get people to understand Nasu's prose as intended requires verbosity and spatial imagery which coke provides. He does it with the grace of a high school english student but damn it he tries and that is worth praise.
Then they did their job perfectly.
Keep playing and leave this thread.
There is a reason that the term translation was abandoned in the 90s for the now industry-wide term "Localization". Some things simply need to be added, subtracted and flat out replaced to draw the same ideas and illicit the same emotional response or understanding.
Does coke go overboard? Yes. But the fact remains that there are still single words in japanese that have no equivalent yet alone entire sentences.
>11's dedication to practices like flower-arrangement make that a sentence that is bristling with imagery and symbolism but it flat out doesn't work in English.
What does flower arrangement have to do with language? The Japanese language have nowhere near the same amount information density that Romance languages have.
>What does flower arrangement have to do with language?
Ask Nasu, the mere fact that you don't see any correlation completely proves my point and to illustrate how they relate to eachother in that sentence it would take and english translator a paragraph to sufficiently explain.
It wasn't completely faking. He really forgot his name and everything was blurry. His memories refreshed themselves when he saw Saber.
It's because Rin did indeed fuck up the summoning by doing it at the wrong hour, which is also why he wrecked her lounge.
You're full of shit. That wasn't localization and this isn't a matter of degrees. Coke blatantly made shit up. He invented details and descriptions that were nowhere in the original. There is absolutely no scenario where this is okay for a translator to do.
>Masaki Hiramatsu blatantly made shit up. He invented details and descriptions that were nowhere in the original.
Sounds much more reasonable.
>It's just mysticism.
Hit the nail on the head (though unintentionally), eastern symbolism and mysticism with no western analog
Any way: You gentlemen and your hate-boner for cokesato have a good evening.
>Really think about this line:
>"The white flower is being violated by the red flower."
>11's dedication to practices like flower-arrangement make that a sentence that is bristling with imagery and symbolism but it flat out doesn't work in English.
I have no idea what you're talking about. It's a powerful, simple line as it is. The context is what gives it meaning. I remember a time when writers were advised to be as succinct and precise as possible, and being awfully verbose was considered an amateur flaw. You don't need to "explain" or "localize" lines like this!
I don't mind cokesakto's rewrites, the meat of the story comes out readable and at least partially intact, but I hate that he uses customized terms instead of mirror moon's accepted translations (e.g. 'Collegium' and 'Ordo' for Clock Tower and Magus Association).
So basically he gets the theme right but all the words wrong and it is just annoying for a translator to pull that.
I've been trying for years now but I just can't get into the VN. Between the fugly as hell sprites, the long drawn out writing and all the slice of life filler bullshit in between it's just so boring.
I really want to like it, I really do. But there's just so much bullshit to get through to get to the good stuff.
I dare to say F/Z I like a lot better, the characters too.
I'd say autism but Fate's the kind of series that autistic people actually like with all its detail and rules and very specific nonsense so I'll instead say ADHD
>I dare to say F/Z I like a lot better, the characters too.
That's clearly because you haven't played the whole VN
Fate/Zero excels in like 2 characters and that's it. Fate/Stay Night trumps every character
No. It has all the infodumps and every route is essential for setting up the next. People overblow it, it's mostly just average. It's not bad, but it's not stellar. It has a decent climax.
You need to play through it to unlock UBW. And people exaggerate how bad it is by comparing it to UBW and HF, which are a lot more exciting.
Part of the problem with Fate is that it's so straight forward and simple. Only one ending to worry about, you just avoid dying by using common sense. Compared to UBW and HF, where you have to actually manage your relationships with multiple characters in order to reach one ending or another, or to avoid dying, it's pretty dull and doesn't require a lot of engagement from you.
I'd actually say Fate was my favourite route, though this view may be slightly influenced by Saber being the only one of the three heroines who I didn't despise.
In terms of actual plot happening it is comparatively uneventful but it's by no means boring.
> turn audio off
How about no? The voice acting is very well done and to do a novel of this size shows the VAs dedication and talent.
Besides, Sakura's voice doesn't deserve the knee-jerk autism that people keep harping on about it. Her voice isn't that high (especially compared to Ilya's nasally, cracking voice all the time). She doesn't say senpai that often, and even if she did, most people turn off their notice of it because it is a a fucking honorific, and there are characters who use it more often than her in other anime.
Dunno, those reactions just seem really silly to me.
Not him, but I played the whole novel, unlocked everything and I still liked F/Z way better.
If anything it was F/SN which excels in like 2 characters for me. I loved Rin, Saber was good and liked Gil better than in F/Z. Everyone bored me to death and I found Shirou the most annoying and boring protagonist I have seen in a while.
Not him, but I'm glad I originally played FSN without the audio, because re-reading scenes I've noticed takes forever and I lose interest quickly.
Sakura's seiyuu (probably purposefully) just takes this 3 second silent pause before and after every line, and she talks so slowly that it bogs everything down immensely. Hell, I replayed the climax one day and I remember getting fucking bored because it was taking too long when the first time I read the scene I thought it was the most awesome shit ever.
Also, I think it completely ruins the Shadow, removing any and all doubt.
You didn't realize that she is supposed to be hesitant because she is one of those characters who is careful with what she says, considering she is hiding several bombshells? That and you are exaggerating, since she doesn't talk slowly all the time. That is the same argument I was making for people who call her voice too high, and forget things like Ilya's nasally voice, or Rin's screechy voice when she gets irritated, which is quite often. 'Sides, if she posed you off, then I don't know how you could stand Jouji's drawls when Kotomine monologues, which is all the f'ing time, or Archer's VA being physically unable to not roll every syllable and pause like he is waiting for a reaction from whoever he is speaking to. I like those two actors, but if you say that a character talking slowly bothered you, they are some of the worst offenders.
Sakura has a calm alluring voice that fits her character, and when she gets irritated (and this happens more than when she is dark), the edge she has to it is suitable for her calm demeanor. Obvious her voice has more lilt to it most of the time because she is talking to the guy she likes.
Hell I listened really carefully for the difference Noriko Shitaya had with her Sakura voice in FSN and CCC, and there isn't any difference between her normal tone being barely an octave lower for her normal voice.
And then everyone cried about Mahoyo not being voiced and wouldn't buy it and Nasu threw a bitch fit and he's probably just playing DaS2 right now with no intention of making another VN ever.
> (probably purposefully)
And it's shit.
Every other character at least manages to keep the pace up, she bogs it down and makes it a chore to keep going.
And I sure as hell don't know about calm or alluring. The only parts where her voice acting didn't annoy me were when she's gone completely dark and doesn't give a shit and in the epilogue.
Not him but how did it ruin the surprise of the Shadow? Anyone with a brain could see she had a connection to it, but not the hows and whys. It is familiar attached to her, so people got the wrong idea anyway. It isn't her physically walking around until much later.
Yeah, sorry, but I don't get that reaction, because as noted, other characters should have pissed you off as well for the same thing.
And again, that isn't nearly all the time in Sakura's case. Maybe you are just an impatient reader? I know my friend enjoys reading manga more than watching anime because of that.
I did, and still don't see how that ruined the surprise, given there was more to it than that, and the mystery held true in the novel, since Sakura never came back with bloody clothes, or wet, or hurt until later, despite the Shadow being hit plenty of times.
>see how that ruined the surprise
No, you still missed it.
>>removing any and all doubt.
Is what I said. The surprise was irrelevant, the big thing was Shirou's and by proxy the readers doubts over the Shadow. Of course we suspected it, since it's her route and it suddenly shows up and Zouken and everything...
But the thing is, WE DON'T KNOW until it's revealed. The mystery is completely ruined, the suspense popped because there isn't any room for doubt.
Then congrats, you have character biases, where you ignore the same "faults" you find in one character for another. And for liking Ilya so much, you don't like the mounds and mounds of sibling scenes she has in the beginning of HF? Or Kotomine ' scenes? Sounds like another kneejerk reaction.
That's hypocrisy, but well, you're not alone in this at least. It happens a lot in character analysis in the fandom anyway
That fault, which none of the others have. You(presumably you) said that Kotomine and Archer drawl out their lines and that Rin is screechy and Ilya is nasally and then compare that to what I said bothered me about Sakura, but that's not the same at all.
And where do you get off on saying that I like Ilya so much? Or even Kotomine? I will admit that Archer makes me moist, but that's sort of irrelevant here.
My bloody issue with Sakura is that at the auto-scroll speed I prefer, Sakura's lines take way longer to stop playing in comparison to other characters. SHE. BOGS. DOWN. THE. SCENES.
Nothing about her voice acting, hell, I think Noriko Shitaya is a great seiyuu and love her as Mari, Avril, Kyoko and even fucking Grail-kun.
Fuck off, m8, with your kneejerk defenses against any complaints.
This. It is the same reason why people miss the sibling turmoil and call Rin a good big sister in HF when she is awkward as all fuck to the point that Shirou, Rin's biggest cheerleader, calls her out on it, even if he doesn't follow through because its Shirou. Sakura was awkward too, but she did the most to try to patch the estrangement up. I like Sakura, but am willing to admit to and address her flaws, I don't see that for others in character discussions.
She talked faster in Dark Sakura mode and in the True End, made me liking her dark side more and happy for her finally being able to talk faste- I mean, to be happy in Shirou's side. That's part of character development for her.
I think the normal HF ending is better than the true ending.
Again, then you missed where I pointed out that Kotomine ' monologues were the same, and went on forever time wise. Same with Archer when he spoke, if you are paying attention.
If you weren't talking about voice acting, then fine, but what still sticks is that you only seem to notice this "flaw" from one character when multiple characters have it. Zouken for instance, or Hassan as well speaking meaningfully slowly.
I never found her lines to be anywhere as slow as when Kotomine went on an explanation rant. I'm sorry that I called your reactions kneejerk, but that is what they look like, and they seem quite overblown for you to not be able to read a whole route. I dunno, I still think your reaction is a tad dramatic, but I apologize if I offended you.
I liked it. Shit was touching.
Not sure what the general view is though.
If the VN just ended with that white screen, it'd be my favorite ending out of any VN
Kotomine is irrelevant since I don't care about him, but Archer I won't back down on.
The parts where he talks the most, he doesn't drawl at all, rather he's angry and spiteful, so that point is moot.
You're probably right on Zouken and Hassan, but I never even got that far that they get any meaningful monologues in HF so fuck 'em.
>don't care about him
How's that shit taste treating you buddy?
Archer and Kotomine don't have those long pauses before talking, even if they do drawl out their lines.
Sakura's character trait of shyness and hesitation is overplayed with the seconds of silence before she starts talking and these exist in the actual voice files.
Either it's a fault of the voicing dude or the guy who was in charge of adding those into the vn, but I attribute the fault to her character. I keep thinking "spit it out already" at times.
KnK 1 wasn't the worst and that didn't help.
I don't want to pretend that I do, but I thought Fate/zero had many scenes with rather tasteless direction.
You lost me anon
That one anon said something about Archer drawling his lines out and being boring and I thought "bullshit!" so I went and figured that the "Vs" scene had the most monologuing by Archer to check it out again.
And fuck, I had forgotten just how fucking good "Answer" was. Fuck everything, I'm going running, got Emiya loaded onto my playlist and everything.
I cried for her after knowing her past. It didn't really moved me that she had been raped/abused, but knowing that Shirou (and Taiga?) was literally the only source of light in her life, the one who re-introduced her to emotions like happiness, after being an empty monster for 10 years.
He's chaotic good in his own era. In his day you had to regularly perform heroic deeds just survive. It has nothing to do with interpretation and everything to do with perspective. He rightfully sees the lazy human populace as maggots defiling the world he was once so proud to be a part of.
>you just avoid dying by using common sense
That is the single most wrong statement to ever be said by someone on this board. Revel in that fact.
Nasu doesn't use straight D&D alignments, he has his own system. If you disagree with this then you're saying that Lawful/Mad is a real alignment in D&D, and you're just being bullshit.
No matter how one tries to disagree with this shit and says "Nasu doesn't know shit about anything, he doesn't know anything about D&D, this is terrible, Gilgamesh is really Chaotic Evil or at best Lawful Evil if anything" it's still accurate that Gilgamesh is Chaotic Good. Guy lists his reasons for this type choice in the data-book, people forget to factor how lawful and evil can change depending on the age and the laws of that custom, and despite what people believe about him he's far more accomidating in his true form and is a true hero, even if he's kind of an asshole.
It's confirmed that the basement orphans was entirely a Kirei thing, it's confirmed that Gilgamesh in between the war was in Ko-Gil mode and didn't requite mana from them at all. Although at his core he's not someone who worries about protecting one person or one city to begin with, but rather humanity in it's entirety. I mean he's not someone who will often fret much about a single life, but that in itself isn't direct evil in his custom. He won't typically kill for selfish reasons; it's usually either if someone has made themselves his enemy or if they have become an abomination, but for him a life is something that's either lost sooner or later.
It's an explanation and a half for his motives; the data-book and CCC explains it a hell of a lot better than I'm going to bother two here, but people just don't tend to get this guy. The standards for good back then were quite difference; Hercules was a rapist and murderer, but he's treated as a true golden hero just the same, yet people don't throw much of a fit. Heroes back then could be assholes and kill at random like Alexander, yet they still did "good", that doesn't mean they were automatically filtered into Evil alignment like a comic book.
>His alignment is Chaotic Good.
>A cold-blooded tyrant, and a hero who had sought and enjoyed all manners of treasures and pleasures.
>Though capricious and temperamental, he does not (generally) kill someone simply because he is in a foul temper.
>When he kills a person, it is either because that someone’s soul is abominable, or because that person has become an enemy of his.
>King and sentencer who weighs both good and evil equally.
>To him, a life is only “that which will die this moment” or “that which will one day die.”
>A being who is recognized by Gilgamesh as “a life that must die this moment” will be slain, even if a sage.
>“So in the end it has nothing to do with rules or conditions and just depends on what he feels like that day?!”
>This kind of reaction is understandable, but that is what a king is.
>Whether astute judgment synonymous to the truth of the universe,
>or misrule during a drunken stupor,
>if he is the one to implement it, it would become the indisputable adjudication of the king.
>Such is the absolute sovereign.
>Though some see him as similar to Iskandar in their egocentricity, the greatest difference between the two is that Gilgamesh has no need of vassals.
>Gilgamesh is a king who, from start to end, reigns by means of only “himself.” What he loves are “treasures” and “tools,” while a “person” is no more than that which must one day perish.
>……No matter how worthy of love he may acknowledge that to be.
>Considering CCC’s themes, women’s issues can’t be avoided. Gil’s type is a “noble maiden.” (Ko-Gil’s is a “wildflower.”)
>He dislikes women who are dependent on men and yet would make use of men. In other words, he dislikes “womanlike” women.
Grab the realta nua patch 9 version.
Just search for "fuwanovel fate stay night" andd you'll find the torrent.
>Series that are not currently known to share the same elements as those above:
The Room of the April Witch
>We don't know if DDD is inclusive of the nasuverse in any meaningful way
>he dislikes “womanlike” women
So that's why he always seems to prefer trap types... (Saber, Enkidu, (Fe)MC)
Part of it is translated:
There's also some pretty horrible Japanese=>Russian=>broken English translations. Decent translation of the rest never.
I never got why people bitch about that choice.
It sure seems like a good idea to turn your back to the giant killing machine coming after you and abandon your only hope of survival, huh?
Gee I wonder why that doesn't work out?
Seiba best girl
Seiba best servant
Everybody praise Seiba
It's Heroine, so it disqualifies all men.
Therefore I can't offer best hero the recognition he deserves.
>Defending this choice as "common sense"
>Insisting F/SN isn't full of a bunch of random dead ends
They literally tell you in the dojo that to advance in the early stages you have to make boneheaded self-sacrificial moves
Ilya also has a tank in the dojo.
You shouldn't take jokes literally anon.
>Shirou's canon choices
>at all consistent with the sane conduct of how to survive and win a war
>Abandoning your only hope for survival and showing your back to your opponent,
>Throwing yourself, as a squishy human, in the way of a merciless three meter monstrosity with a blade bigger than yourself, after it has been well established that the only person who could do anything to harm it has just been taken down
What is going on???
Caster & Rider are already dead, and it just happened in like 2 consecutive days. I thought they played a crucial role considering how the OP showed them. Isn't HF the best route, this just feels rushed.
Trying to save Saber is gamble with low odds.
Fleeing from Berserker and letting Saber die is certain death.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's the best choice.
>Trying to save Saber is gamble with low odds.
As I recall, Shirou got fucking bisected.
If it weren't for both the miracles of having Avalon dickery (which, at that point, you had no way of knowing about) and Illya calling off Berserker (which was impossible to predict) then Shirou's Holy Grail War would have died right there along with him.
By contrast, if you ran, Berserker may have finished Saber off first. That'd buy you a second or two. If Rin then called out Archer, wounded or no, that'd would have bought even more time. It'd be ludicrously costly, and probably still not allow you to escape without obscene luck, but that's what happens when an end-game tier boss drops on you on Day Fucking 1.
But, you're right. It doesn't take a genius, given what we knew at that point in the VN, to figure out running is the best choice. A choice which relies on absurd amounts of luck is better than one which requires deus ex machinas to avoid suicide.
>You know nothing of what's yet to come.
Well, I'll give you that. It completely took me off guard.
Does anyone have the Fate/Stay Night copypasta that give you the piratebay link?
Need to give it to a friend before he becomes a secondary
>implying you won't kill his interest with the franchise by exposing him to Emiya "the Jackhammer" Shirou
the jackhammer is part of the experience
I'm not so sure that that's possible.
Look, even if they butcher the plot and characters on an unheard-of scale, at least it's going to look really nice.
If you think that you could get away from Berserker in that state, no matter how many seconds you got, then you're a retard. It doesn't even fucking matter if you somehow got away, since you're as good as dead without a Servant in the war.
And Archer was resting at Rin's place and she had no Command Seals left to spare, so she couldn't have called for him. The only option for survival was through either Saber or Ilya's mercy.
The point of that scene is how hopeless the situation is. None of the option are good, but you survive if you take the one that has slightly better odds. If you're gonna complain about choices then be a bit more intelligent and pick a more valid one to bitch about.
>Note: You'll often come across dead/bad ends
Wait what. Do people actually tend to get caught in that many bad ends? Unless you're looking for all the stamps there's no reason to use a flowchart for F/SN.
If you think you could survive getting bisected, no matter your status as a protagonist, then you're a retard. It doesn't even fucking matter if you somehow save Saber, since you're as good as dead without your vital organs still inside your chest.
And Saber was incapacitated in front of Berserker and was about to die, so you couldn't have counted on her. The only option for survival was through being insane enough to throw yourself on someone's blade, open up your stomach and somehow expect to not die.
The point of that scene is how hopeless the situation is. None of the option are good, but you survive if you take the one that has slightly better odds. If you're gonna complain about choices then be a bit more intelligent and pick a more valid one to bitch about.
One of the biggest problem a lot of people have is that they try to self-insert as Shirou and make decisions that they'd make.
The main point of F/sn is for Shirou to progress through the story, not you.
Even a couple of the bad ends yell at you saying "THAT'S NOT WHAT SHIROU WOULD DO"
But it's okay, because Tiger Dojo is fucking adorable.
But it's NOT okay, because of Mirror Moon's horrible translation "the character images will be ruined if you view this" scared me away from ever clicking the tiger dojo until I read that they were good.
Mirror Moon pisses me off more and more every day.
The piratebay link is actually a bad choice as it has a very old patch that does not play well with new ones. Use the fuwanovel one: http://fuwanovel.org/novels/fate-stay-night
>>"the character images will be ruined if you view this" scared me away from ever clicking the tiger dojo until I read that they were good.
I honestly thought I was the only one who read that as: "This will enable flags that will lock off content" I felt retarded when I read that Dojos actually *unlock* stuff and had to go back and get all of them
Is this the place to talk about Tsukihime as well?
And subsequently, best girl?
And I mean BEST girl
>"the character images will be ruined if you view this" scared me away from ever clicking the tiger dojo until I read that they were good
Set - Nine Lives Blade Works.
Speaking of other Type-Moon stuff, has anyone here been able to extract data (specifically audio) from Melty Blood? I found Susie and a plugin that should in theory work with Melty Blood, but I can't get Susie to recognize any of the data files.
>mfw it's the one route that finally let's us see Shirou becoming Archer
Heaven's Feel is the route where everything flipes on it's head, and you realize thatt everything you knew prior was wrong.
>This just feels rushed
That's because you're not letting it sink in and take effort. Nasu stories are all about misdirection, and you're at the first step of the misdirection process and going "What? This shouldn't be happening, this is kind of bullshit" without realizing there's still the second half of the trick where it all turns around on you to watch
Although in general you will notice that Cthulhu basically came to town all of a sudden; it's a being far beyond servants by nature, the mere existence of this thing means that the entire ritual is fucked and the war to decide who wins will quickly be a fight for survival as all remaining masters have to put shit behind them to even make it out at all. HF is the route where everything starts breaking, the formula is turned around, and the stakes were never higher.
Protip: you didn't see Rider poof away, rather she just dematerialized when his fake command seal exploded. She just went into spirit form in order to stock up on mana, before going back to her real master.
Oh that. Then I'll have to disagree. Shirou vs Kirei is good, but Shirou taking down Gilgamesh with UBW is THE moment of the series. Rin vs Sakura is obviously going to be in though.
>Shirou taking down Gilgamesh with UBW is THE moment of the series.
The lowest moment. The only reason that fight happens is because Gil is arrogant. It doesn't address the main philosophical conflict, or in fact, any character's motivations or goals.
As an action scene? Good. Not the best.
As a route climax? The worst. There is nothing going on in those men's minds besides "You're a dick" and "Faker."
>but Shirou taking down Gilgamesh with UBW is THE moment of the series.
It was literally jobbing of the highest order
Gilgamesh did absolutely everything and gave Shirou every chance due to plot so he'd even stand a chance, to the point that Gilgamesh actually came out looking better in HF despite how short it all was compared to what a mess he was in UBW.
He was literally there to play foil to the hero as an obstacle, to be everything he isn't and belittle his ideals, so Shirou could go "Shut up, my ideals are awesome, COME UBW". It was one of the lowest moments for just how bullshit it had to be for Shirou to even have a chance.
what kind of philosophical conflict was with Kirei? who was edgier? I really never could understood people fascitanion with him and his "ideals", for me he was always just a total dick, who loved to watch peoples misfortune.
Gilgamesh being arrogant about it is what made it awesome.
>Gilgamesh actually came out looking better in HF
Absolutely not. HF turned nearly all the servants into joke characters. At least he attempted to use Ea in UBW
Kirei was a man who was born evil. He tried as hard as he could, for as long as he lived, to be a good person. He was never able to succeed in finding any pleasure in good things, so he resigned himself to his fate until Gil came along.
In HF, Kirei is trying to allow Angra Mainyu into the world because it is like him. He wants something else which is inherently evil to be born into the world, since he sees it as having a right to live, like he does.
Neither character in this is the least bit edgy
besides shirou being UBW'd, but I can't see how you didn't get his ideals. They explain it multiple times.
But, of course you would understand it if you
actually read the fucking VN, filthy secondary.
>what kind of philosophical conflict was with Kirei? who was edgier?
The nature of evil, meaning of birth, can a twisted man from his creation find redemption or was he not a mistake to begin with abortion, anti-heroes, and the ideal of an innocent monster.
The conflict is that these two people were the same in the end, even if they represented opposite extremes. They both knew no other path, this was their only answer so they just drove forward without limit, both believed themselves to be sinners and sought atonement, both knew atonement would never come but tried anyway, both were defective products since birth, and both could see a strange meaning that this of all people was the one they ended up fighting in the end.
Two opposite sides of the coin came into conflict, this was just all they knew in the end, they could not stray from this path. It was a fight with more meaning and passion than any sex scene in the end.
>In HF, Kirei is trying to allow Angra Mainyu into the world because it is like him. He wants something else which is inherently evil to be born into the world, since he sees it as having a right to live, like he does.
You're a bit off
It's not that he wants to give it life for that reason, but rather because he wants to use it to find the answer to his own life. Does an evil being from birth deserve to live, should it die, among other things Angya was just a vessal to find the answer he's sought all along. He found one thing out in Zero, but a dozen more questions were created.
Since Kiritsugu turned out to not be the man he thought he was, Kotomine thought he needed to create a being like himself in order to find that answer.
Instead he found Shirou in the end, who was everything he wished for
I don't understand either why I like him.
Smart, eloquent, skilled, baritone, pretty cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything.
A shame he couldn't find the balance between his beliefs and his pleasure, though.
Living as vigilante antiherou, becoming neuroscientist, etc.
>Prisma Illya 2wei
My body is ready.
you are just saing my words in longer meaning. buh, huh, huh I was born evil, but i want to be good, but nevertheles I'll be bad (it's just like watching that prick Dexter again) - his thought process realy was profound.
and I still don't see some big conflict with Shiro, besides overly used "good vs bad". bottomline he was prepared to release the last servant just because he wouldn't be so lonely anymore on expense of whole humanity (or maybe less, don't know how much people would be killed) - he was asshole and I still don't see people's fascinations with him.
but if Gil went full power against the shadow he'd cream it pretty hard
The only reason Sakura didn't get one-shotted is because Gilgamesh was too jobbing to have used Harpe or one of his presumably dozens of anti-regen NPs which would have nullified all of her regenerative abilities and made sure she stayed dead.
Even if he was vsing End of HF Dark Sakura with her shadow giants he would probably win.
A pipe dream that I really want to see would be everyone vsing Alter Gilgamesh
Not really, as much as i love Apoc, adding an extra volume was a terrible idea.
I would have been sold if anything paticularly amazing happenend during volumed 4, but nothing did. It was a scam.
Gil can't be Darkened, he has a kind of reverse-corruption thing about him. If he's swallowed up by the shadow, and not decomposed like he was, he'd end up taking it over, and there'd be an AM-powered Gil with a Gold and Red colored shadow walking around.
Next is the last volume. THe one we just got was supposed to be the last, but supposedly they needed the extra volume to wrap things up.
Cue nothing happening in volume 4 so they could milk an extra book out of it.
That sounds even more awesome. i just really want to see what Gil would look like when 'corruped' because him with a Saber Alter-style armour and NPs would be amazing (figure pls)
I wouldn't say Zwei's... thing was Alter Gilgamesh. And also ShotaGil said he was only at half of his normal power after losing to Illya
Alter Gilgamesh should be >>> normal Gilgamesh in power
Not really butthurt, but Gil's death in HF is just as nonsense as Kirei's death in UBW.
Given the focus they had in Fate/Zero, Gil's death will be of the Fate route and Kirei of HF.
the sad thing is even if we disregard that Gil can't be corrupted and stuff
There's no way to plausibly shove in Shirou vs Gil (with UBW) into HF in the first place NOR have a Shirou vs Kotomine afterwards.
Well not directly saying half his normal power but
>"I was only able to half-incarnate, guess this is the best I could do"
Strongly suggests Gil wasn't at full power
yeah thats what I feel too. Common sense suggests HF as the most likely adaption due to F/Z being made, but Gil and Saber are two characters with heavy focus coming in from Fate Zero and both get offed really early on into HF. While Saber at least gets some respite by having her Alter form displayed and getting some form of closure, Gil just gets offed so retardedly without doing anything at all in HF
Given that ufotable are making F/SN most likely so that F/Z flows well into it (all that stuff with Sakura and the Grail) they prob would want Gil to play a bigger role, but rewriting Gil's fate would put a huge wrench in HF as a whole.
Aren't Ilya and Sakura both vessels for the Grail? You can just have Zouken do his thing while Gilgamesh does his. Though if Ilya loses her heart it will make it a little hard for Shirou to come back.
It would be interesting if it was Gil who "cleaned" Alter Saber's corruption.
He would die in the process, but at least would bring back the only treasure he failed to obtain.
Thus, finally making the King of Heroes... a hero.
>Not really butthurt, but Gil's death in HF is just as nonsense as Kirei's death in UBW.
>as nonsense as Kirei's death in UBW.
>expecting Prime Kirei, let alone sat-on-his-ass-as-a-priest-and-guardian-for-10-years Kirei, to be able to take the Bulge like a man
Its a weird one, it just phases you into a different realitity, basically what Zeltrech can do on a whim.
It explains Why Saber can avoid EA, but it really doesn't make much sense when applied to Shirou whose been consumed by the grail in fate.
b-but I don't want to see Illya suffer T__T
Nasu pls write new HF Illya route
That would actually... be kind of cool. Though Saber Alter alone would be no match for the King of Heroes.
Dark Berserker obviously has to be downed by Nine Lives Blade Works, but what if Saber Alter had Dark Caster/Lancer/Assassin + Possibly even some Shadow giants as back up?
Maybe even write in Gilgamesh has a bit of mana problems due to Kotomine getting 'killed' by Sakura in the Forest, but he is too prideful to accept mana support from Rin/Shirou/Illya.
Taking into account that the adaptation would be based primarily on HF, Gil could have managed to escape while being digested by Sakura.
Thereby leaving him almost as useless as Lancer.
>Thereby leaving him almost as useless as Lancer.
for someone who summoned caster he had quite the mana pool
i was expecting him to get killed just from the sheer number of tentacles caster was summoning, much more summoning cthlulu
In fairness, anon can't help it if Kirei/Gilgamesh is a boring fight.
The King of Heroes needs to step up his game, it's embarrassing.
Shinji confirmed worst girl.
>hating on best type-moon
Fight me IRL
I bet you don't even lift faggot
Hisui is best girl. Shame half her route consists of you lying in bed. She got a lot of love in KT though, thankfully.