She was just as nice to Homura in virtually every timeline, yet Homu considers Madoka her only friend.
Not nice enough, apparently.
Not according to episode 12 either.
When you become hyper focused on a single goal or thing you subconsciously begin to either think of it as more important than it actually is or you value it as much as things that are in actuality greater or equal in importance.
>>Not according to episode 12 either.
Ah yes, I had forgotten that. But apparently that timeline is irrelevant now - in the same way I imagine the post-Rebellion timeline will rewritten in the next movie in the series.
None of their actions make any sense unless you rationalize them as selfish, apathetic sociopaths. Let's start with Madoka. I thought the whole reason she made her wish was to spare magical girls the pain of turning into witches so they could die with a smile on their faces. I also thought she had some sort of omniscience as a goddess. What the fuck was she thinking, then, sending Homura back alone? Did she not see any future or past where Homura suffered from loneliness without her? Did she not foresee how Homura knowing about her would attract the Incubators to torture her? Did she give so little a shit about Homura's feelings what happened to Homura after she returned wasn't important because she just wanted her to remember her, so they could be together in some spiritual way? It seems like Madoka was either completely inconsiderate of her "best friend's" well-being or was denser than a harem MC about her or anything that would happen to her in the future.
What makes this worse is how little we see of a Madoka with all her memories in the movie. She has three lines in total, "How silly of me, how could I forget I came to get Homura-chan," "Sorry to keep you waiting, let's go, from now on we'll always be together," and "stop, you're tearing me apart!" Again, I thought the purpose of her wish was to spare magical girls the pain of being a witch. Sure, she rescued Homura, but that's like rescuing a sex slave from a brothel: the damage was already done. What the fuck, then, was with this greeting? She sounds like she doesn't give a fuck at all about the literal hell Homura just went through for her. She should apologize for the bullshit, making her feel so heartbreakingly alone without her, and promising she'll make everything better. Maybe an "I love you" would have helped too. But no, all we get is a silly greeting that she would say to anyone. Wasn't Homura her best friend/girlfriend?
>>Mami is one of the primary reasons that Madoka becomes a magical girl
>>Mami's emotional weakness fucks things up.
I guess, but it only happens like twice. Homura does comment in Rebellion that Mami has the "softest heart" of the 4 girls though.
>But apparently that timeline is irrelevant now
No it's not, Homura didn't really rewrite the universe, shoe rewrote everyone's memories. Madoka is still part of LoC, she's just forgotten. That's why she almost returned to being Madokami at the end of Rebellion before Homura stopped her. The same goes for Sayaka and Nagisa, as shown with Sayaka saying she felt like she was a part of something bigger but forgot. It wasn't made irrelevant.
Not really. Movie 2 is a straight up recap. Movie 1 has different pacing to the series (which I thought was a good move) and a slightly different focus which in results in a couple of scenes that were important in the series being cut.
The human Madoka is actually a really great character in Rebellion. She's strong, she's confident, she loves her friends she cherishes Homura, she longs for the ability to make Homura happy, and she genuinely cares about her. Even post demon, the new Madoka is attracted to Homura like she always is despite Homura being so lost. What thje fuck was with her goddess form, then? How careless could you get? If I were Homura, even if I didn't love Madoka at all, I'd have riupped her apart too. I'd have been so disappointed that someone who said I was their favorite, said they would never abandon me, would seemingly turn into a completely different person who cared very little about me. Maybe this isn't true, but we don't see any of the love human Madoka felt for Homura come from the goddess.
I would be willing to say Homura cut her too short and they were going to go get married in space or something if she hadn't grabbed her, but that brings me to Madoka's plan and Sayaka. People say Sayaka was improved in Rebellion, but she seems much worse to me now than she was in the series. Sure, she wasn't all emo and sure, she had cool powers, but her entire character in the movie did nothing logical and came off as a needlessly hateful bitch. What exactly was Madoka's plan? To break the Incubator's seal without revealing her powers, right? Did Homura need to become a witch to do this? If so, why was she not fucking pissed at the Incubators trampling on her wish? Homura was right about the barrier being a disgrace, then. Why is she so nonchalant when she comes to get her? Does she not realize that Homura had just been subjected to the torment she sacrificed herself to eliminate and was only saved because of their mutual adoration, and it was all the Incubators' fault? This makes zero sense to me, no reward isn't worth an apology that she was wrong, Homura's life didn't come out alright.
She got over them. You could probably say she's the most complete of the characters.
Even though I like Mami, I think one of the reasons she comes across as complete is because she wasn't given a lot of depth.
As for the contrary, if Homura didn't need to witch out, then Sayaka was a retarded bitch who needed to get her shit slapped. What the fuck is wrong with her? She accepted the job solely to fuck Kyouko, not because her best friend needed help saving her girlfriend, not because she wanted to help Homura, no, because of Kyouko. She didn't give a fuck about Homura at all. What was the point of that ominous monologue to Homura? It wasn't to ease her into accepting her reality. If that were the case Sayaka wouldn't have come off so confrontational and acted like a creepy bitch just to make Homura attack. That monologue led to Homura falling into despair regretting what she let Madoka do, and remembering how lonely she was without her, which led to the flower scene (which is the second best scene in the film, first being Homulilly's birth). So does Sayaka just blame Homura for taking matters into her own hands when it made perfect sense for her to do it, when she herself failed miserably to help her out? Why did she act so mean, anyway? She should have seen how much Homura worked to save not just Madoka but her too in the past, she should have seen how she was personally responsible for leading Homura to become mindbroken by killing Madoka, and she should have realized Homura didn't just work hard, she was broken. Hell, she experienced first hand the kind and lovable Moemura. She had no reason to hate Homura at that point without being a selfish, careless bitch. She jeopardized the whole mission in that scene and did it for laughs, then blamed Homura when shit hit the fan.
They're basically in a giant witch barrier than encompasses the universe to prevent Madoka from returning to the LoC. She didn't rewrite the universe quite like Madoka did. It'll probably be undone when they make more.
This is a good point. Mami always appeared as more of a friendly mentor to the other girls than a true friend - probably because of the age gap and the fact that she had more experience. Also, she was more used to being on her own.
However, of all the girls, Mami always seemed close to Madoka too, which might have bothered Homura.
But did QB not comment at the end of Rebellion that Homura was rewriting the Universe in some capacity? I'm pretty sure he did. Or was he simply referring to the removal of Madoka's essence from the Law of the Cycle?
Nagisa is shit too. Like Sayaka she didn't give a fuck about Homura and just wanted to eat cheese again. What makes this obvious is the scene right after the Homulilly intro. Mami, Kyouko, and a human Madoka all show distress, concern, and remorse for Homura. Sayaka just says she's suffering and shows she cares more about showing off. Nagisa, too, showed no remorse for Homura. Nagisa had some sort of an excuse for this, but why the fuck did she play dumb with Homura, only for Sayaka to come in moments later? This makes no sense if their goal is to make freeing Homura as painless as possible. All I can think is that Sayaka and Nagisa didn't give a fuck about their mission or what happened to Homura in the meanwhile while they enjoyed human lives again. Mami, Kyouko, and Madoka were shown desperately trying to free their friend from the witch, while Sayaka and Nagisa were just out to do their job after a month's vacation. The difference in attitudes is obvious and shocking, like, what the fuck is wrong with the Law of Cycles? Does it feel no empathy? Does it not give a shit about the girls it absorbs so long as it absorbs them? Nothing related to it sat well with me, everything about it seemed cold and distant. Episode 12 Godoka and Rebellion Godoka feel so vastly different it's scary, no wonder Homura wanted to give Madoka her life back.
That's probably it, or he was just referring to the scope of what she was doing. It's made pretty clear that this is the same universe it was at the end of the series/before AI YO, just now Madoka has been removed from LoC and everyone's memories have been rewritten to accommodate. She didn't actually rewrite the universe as her change didn't fundamentally rewrite events in history like Madoka's had.
>Does it feel no empathy? Does it not give a shit about the girls it absorbs so long as it absorbs them?
One could argue that since the LotC isn't Human, empathy isn't something it would feel anyway. It does its job and that's that.
On the other hand, that would raise the question of why it put so much effort into freeing Homura in Rebellion unless it felt a emotional attachment to her?
Personally I think there's a duality to the LotC, with Madoka representing the Human element of it, and what remains when Homura separates her from the God form being the non-Human element.
Akuma Homura seems like a much better alternative than Ultimate Madoka. An ultimate good that doesn't respect her own wish and doesn't care at all about her self-proclaimed best friend shouldn't be allowed to exist. I wonder if being with the LoC fucked with them and made them cold and selfish. Sayaka was happy to see Kyousuke and Hitomi again, so much she cried, but did she feel nothing when she met them in Homura's world? Did her being separated from the cycle give her humanity as well or something? Akuma Homura's world seems so much better than Madoka's, and even Homura who claims she's evil (even though she obviously isn't) at the very least observes everyone's happiness and attempts to give it to them. When Sayaka bullied Homura, it led to her witching out and suffering worse than ever before. When Homura bullied Sayaka, it led to her feeling immense happiness at seeing her friends again and earned her the life with Kyouko she desperately wanted. It's because of this that I cannot see why Homura was wrong at all. I would have agreed with her if she had killed everyone but her and Madoka and just raped her for all eternity after what she went through. Sayaka doesn't deserve to be happy with Kyouko after how badly she fucked up, and Homura shouldn't have to be in the position she's in right now. Everything that went "wrong" went wrong because Madoka was careless about Homura and Sayaka was a fucking selfish bitch. Homura, however, did only one thing wrong, and that's deny her own love being completed, which Madoka would have wanted, but I can at least applaud her efforts. I'd rather have a demon bully me and give me my waifu than have a goddess who lets me suffer in defiance of her own wish and not even apologize.
TL;DR: Homu, Kyouko, Mami, Madoka best, Godoka and Sayaka a shit. That's my rant.
She was omnipresent, meaning she probably saw infinite universes where things went slightly differently and Homura led a happy and fulfilling life as well as infinite universes where she didn't. As she said to Sayaka in episode 12, maybe she could have prevented all of these bad things from happening to them, but these things happened because something was important to them and to prevent them would be to say their feelings were wrong.
You're also separating the Madoka in the witch barrier and Madokami as different characters for some reason. Sure, she wasn't Madokami while she was in Homura's barrier, but once she returned to being a part of the Law of the Cycle, that didn't suddenly undo all that had just happened. It isn't as if Madokami just met her for the first time there, she had been in the barrier as Madoka the whole time. You're acting as if this should have been a huge reunion moment when in actuality they had been together for a month or so already. Given that, Madoka absentmindedly saying "How silly of me, how could I forget I came to get Homura-chan" is pretty in line with her character and the events of the movie.
Yeah that's literally all I got.
I want to think that she siphoned off Madoka's power somehow, but that can't be it since Madoka still has them, just dorment. Where the fuck did all that Universe warping energy come?
Since she was transplanted from the previous universe, her wish was probably changed to accommodate the change. She probably either has some power over the Law of the Cycle as her wish was to "have the power to protect Madoka".
>You're acting as if this should have been a huge reunion moment when in actuality they had been together for a month or so already. Given that, Madoka absentmindedly saying "How silly of me, how could I forget I came to get Homura-chan" is pretty in line with her character and the events of the movie.
It really should have. Sayaka herself said Homura would be able to meet the real Madoka again. Madoka with her memories should have realized that she just saved Homura because of their immensely special bond and that alone. Without it, Homura would have suffered as a witch and died like she planned. Madoka should have seen Homura suffer all alone, she should have seen her get taken by the Incubators against her will, and she should have shown more empathy for essentially lying to her back in heaven. Homura's life was shit. Omniscience means nothing in that regard and nor does an eternity with her. Madoka failed to protect Homura from becoming a wish and that didn't seem to faze her at all, which is disturbingly wrong. Human madoka ddeply cared for Homura, in comparison.
>Did she not foresee how Homura knowing about her would attract the Incubators to torture her?
I think she assumed Homura wouldn't tell Kyuubey about how it was before, she kind of fucked everything up
>Madoka failed to protect Homura from becoming a wish and that didn't seem to faze her at all, which is disturbingly wrong. Human madoka ddeply cared for Homura, in comparison.
Actually, you're wrong. Homura can't become a witch as that would go against Madoka's wish. That's why she's become what she currently is. Homura prevented Madoka from purifying her soul gem, probably only accomplishable through >>110476125 and so she became something that wasn't a witch, but that was her own choosing. She didn't become a witch before this. Her becoming Homulily in her barrier might have been her coming close to becoming a witch, but she clearly became Homulily in the isolation field, but she was clearly not a witch in the real world.
Homura suffered mostly because she was unable to connect with anyone other than Madoka because she couldn't understand anyone. The movie shows pretty clearly that she had misconceptions about everyone because of her experience time looping, but it also showed she was wrong. This is her character bias. She believed Sayaka to be incompetent, Kyouko to be a hard ass bitch and Mami to never be able to accept the truth, she never took into consideration these things were her own bias from her own experience. Sayaka was probably incompetent because she had just contracted and was going through boy troubles, Kyouko was probably a bitch because she hadn't been able to accept what happened to her family yet and Mami could probably never handle the truth because Homura was unable to tell her properly where she wouldn't go off and plan what she should do if it were true on her own. The reason why she liked Madoka so much is because of how open and friendly she was, Homura was in the hospital for who knows how long and had just transferred, she probably doesn't really know how to socialize with people, let alone connect with others that have their own problems.
But in the new universe Madoka set up the Incubators as friendly, or so Homura thought. Besides, they're the only ones who would listen to her crazy story. She probably thought at least they would reassure her that she wasn't losing her mind, but she was wrong. If it was that big of a deal, why wouldn't Madoka just say to keep her existence a secret?
If the whole point of the mission was to free Homura and not make her suffer, Sayaka's actions directly violated that goal. It caused Homura to realize she was the witch AND regret making Madoka suffer. All it served was to flaunt Sayaka's undeserved ego. The worst part is that she showed zero remorse at all about it and blamed Homura for trying to go it solo when, due to Sayaka not giving Homura any clue what the reality was, Homura's suicide was her best option.
>Madoka set up the Incubators as friendly
No she didn't all she did was prevent the birth of witches. Everything else is just a result of that, she didn't change how the incubators do things, they merely do things differently because the situation is different. The whole point of Rebellion is to show that the Incubators are still the same as they were in the series and only act as Mahou Shoujo's allies now because it suits their purpose.
>they're the only ones who would listen to her crazy story
They're the only ones she tried telling her crazy story to.
>why wouldn't Madoka just say to keep her existence a secret?
Again, Madoka is omnipresent. It's possible she doesn't know what this particular Homura is going to do anymore than she does. She see everything that can happen and has happened, that doesn't mean she knows what's going to happen. she could probably tell you the infinite possibilities of what could happen from a single exchange, but that doesn't mean she knows which one will happen.
>and not make her suffer, Sayaka's actions directly violated that goal
I don't know where you got this from.
>It caused Homura to realize she was the witch AND regret making Madoka suffer. All it served was to flaunt Sayaka's undeserved ego.
You ever consider maybe they needed Homura to be aware of the situation so that they could help her? They were only able to break the barrier because Homura and Madoka combined their powers.
>not holding hands
Is that some kind of ultimate lesbian sin or something?
Okay, I'm not sure why you think that's relevant. As I already said that happens in every timeline. Her being "transplanted" that is.
I assumed you were trying to explain why she had the power to over throw Madoka.
The funny part is Mami gets to hang out with Dokes all the time in magical girl heaven. All you had to do was die Homu and you could have been happy. Join them in the Balamb Garden of magical girls.
>I assumed you were trying to explain why she had the power to over throw Madoka.
I am, she separated Madoka from the Law of the Cycle in the same universe as the one with the wraiths. She was able to do this because her wish gave her the power to protect Madoka. It's the same reason why her powers changed from no magic and timestop to magic arrows with no timestop. Her being an overpowered witch has nothing to do with how she was able to separate Madoka from the Law of the Cycle, that's just how she was able to rewrite everyone's memories and keep Madoka away from LotC.
I don't think anyone expected Homura to decided that suicide was her best option. QB's plan was for Homura to call out for Madoka's help to save her, so Sayaka probably expected the same thing. She was giving Homura the chance to decide for herself that she wanted to be saved, rather than saving her against her will.
>her wish gave her the power to protect Madoka
Wrong, it was the time loops, this was already explained.
There is no way the power of her wish was enough to over power Madoka. Because the power of her wish comes from the amount of positive power your karmic destiny allows. Homura's was nowhere even close to Madoka's.
>Her being an overpowered witch has nothing to do with how she was able to separate Madoka from the Law of the Cycle
It does because if she's an all-powerful witch she can do anything she wants to the universe, and Madoka just happens to be a part of it. So if she wants to separate her from the LoC she can.
Her being an over powered witch, which stated in the show, is a lot more plausible than an inferred wish that is never even mentioned.
And Homura didn't hate Mami, she just happened to be in the way. Without all the awful external circumstances, they'd probably be the closest two given how close their personalities are.
The point is that Homura suffered the same fate as becoming a witch. It's not the witches that are the problem, it's the suffering they cause. Homura went through that suffering, which is exactly what Madoka didn't want to happen. Which is why it's extremely callous of her not to be more apologetic and gentle when she came to get her.
Homura never got close to anyone ebcause she was burdened by her intense feelings and her horrible trauma. She was never healed of this as Homulilly shows. Her life wasn't shit because she couldn't understand anyone, it was shit because she only had one reason to live and it was taken away from her. She couldn't just find a new one either because of her wish and because she was, in fact, in love with someone who from her perspective died for her when her entire mission was to prevent that.
>No she didn't all she did was prevent the birth of witches.
Homura mentions their relationship was better in the new world. Obviously this was an intentional alteration that was undone in Rebellion.
>They're the only ones she tried telling her crazy story to.
Because Mami and Kyouko would totally believe her, right? Homura wanted confirmation she didn't make it up, not comfort.
>Again, Madoka is omnipresent.
If she was able to concoct a plan to protect herself from the Incubators she should've known what they were capable of. They defiled her sacrifice with Homura's soul, Madoka should have cared more.
>I don't know where you got this from.
They made Homura suspicious of herself, then snowballed that with the catharsis of Madoka's scene. Where was Sayaka during all this? The point is that she didn't give a fuck at all about Homura.
>You ever consider maybe they needed Homura to be aware of the situation so that they could help her?
Did she need to become a witch? If their goal was to ease her into acceptance, they failed miserably and showed no remorse about it.
Maybe he means Rebellion. I still wonder what wish Homura made in the universe with no Madoka.
And Moemura still had that clingyness and loneliness in her, like Mami. They are also the msot mature and ladylike of the characters. She'd get all the rest from fighting witches.
>showed no remorse about it
Every magical girl Madoka comes to is in their absolute lowest moment of despair. If Sayaka and Nagisa know anything at all about Madoka's job, they shouldn't even be phased by Homura's suffering. That kind of thing sort of comes with being the magical girl grim reaper. Shit happens, and then you die and don't have to despair anymore.
>Wrong, it was the time loops, this was already explained.
She didn't wish for time loops, the hell are you talking about? Her wish was, "I want to redo my first encounter with Kaname-san. But this time, instead of her protecting me, I want to become strong enough to protect her!" She was able to go back because her wish was to redo her meeting with her as someone who could protect her, if she failed to do so then she was free to redo her meeting again until she was able to do so.
>Because the power of her wish comes from the amount of positive power your karmic destiny allows.
What? Your karmic destiny determines how much potential you have and how much you can accomplish with your wish, this in no way would prevent Homura from being able separate Madoka from the Law of the Cycles.
>It does because if she's an all-powerful witch she can do anything she wants to the universe
No she can't all she was able to do was have her barrier expand over the universe and rewrite everyone's memories, just as she had in the barrier before.
>Her being an over powered witch, which stated in the show, is a lot more plausible than an inferred wish that is never even mentioned.
Her wish was to have the power to protect Madoka, as it was every single time she was transplanted into a new timeline. Why do you think this suddenly changed when, as you said, it was the same every time she went back? Also, she wasn't a witch when she stopped Madoka from purifying her and she was only becoming a witch when she separated Madoka from the Law of the Cycles. What you're suggesting is a normal magical girl who's turning into a witch has the power to overpower The Law of the Cycles.
I always wondered this. Supposedly Homu became obsessed with Madoka because she was her first and only friend, but Mami was also her first friend yet Homu didn't care much for her. I guess this proves that what drives Homu is nothing but lust and crazy love, not friendship.
>She was giving Homura the chance to decide for herself that she wanted to be saved, rather than saving her against her will.
Again, this makes no sense. The talk basically led Homura directly to the conclusion she was the witch. What did Sayaka expect then? The instant she realized it was her she warped the her dollhouse thing and Kyubey got to her. They would have had to get her eventually as part of the LoC and to free everyone. The way Sayaka and Nagisa go about it is like they're treating Homura's plight as a vacation rather than being willing to help her, and that's fucking horrible.
My claim is that the LoC girls are cold bitches without empathy. It's like Madoka sent everyone to help Homura and when they got there they said fuck that, let's party. Homura is supposed to be Madoka's best friend, yet Sayaka didn't come back to help Madoka save her, she came back for Kyouko. She openly admits to not caring about her best friend's best friend. What the fuck is her problem? Homura suffered more than any other magical girl, but nobody bats an eye to this and basically just tells her to man up. No wonder Homura broke. Meanwhile Mami and Kyouko actually do emphasize with her but lack the power to actually help her. All they can do is fight to free her.
>She didn't wish for time loops
No fucking shit. The time loops are where she got all of her witch power.
>you can accomplish with your wish
Exactly. She would have had to have more karmic destiny than Madoka in order for her wish to undo Madoka's. Reminder that Madoka's wish in the LoC.
>just as she had in the barrier before
Okay, so she's just as power as a magic girl an she is as a witch. Good job.
>Her wish was to have the power to protect Madoka
Yeah, you didn't watch the show.
>What you're suggesting is a normal magical girl who's turning into a witch has the power to overpower The Law of the Cycles.
No, just Homura. Try to keep up.
Only she can do this because she has no much stored grief energy from all her time loops.
Mami died during Walpurgisnacht and she seemed somewhat sad over her. It was ultimately Madoka who continuously gave her life to save Homura which I suppose inspires her. I guess, over the course of the timelines, Homura saw Mami as more pitiful than a older peer to look up to.
>The point is that Homura suffered the same fate as becoming a witch. It's not the witches that are the problem, it's the suffering they cause.
Homura didn't hurt anyone. Madoka wished to prevent everyone's wishes they made with good intentions from ending in despair by hurting innocent people. Since Homura didn't hurt anyone, I fail to see how it's the same.
>Homura never got close to anyone ebcause she was burdened by her intense feelings and her horrible trauma.
She wasn't able to become close with anyone besides Madoka before the trauma either. She only had one reason to live because she couldn't understand other and find another reason to live. She was "in love" with Madoka because she was the one person she thought she could understand, though she proves this to the contrary in Rebellion as well.
>Obviously this was an intentional alteration that was undone in Rebellion.
This isn't because Madoka made them this way, again it's because the Wraith system called for them to interact differently with Mahou Shoujos than the Witch system. They're still the same as they were in the series, the situation has merely changed.
>Because Mami and Kyouko would totally believe her, right?
Of course they wouldn't, because Homura doesn't understand anyone and wouldn't know how to tell them that would make her believe them. Different people respond differently to different things.
>Homura wanted confirmation she didn't make it up, not comfort.
Sounds like she wanted confirmation to comfort herself to know she wasn't crazy. Not that Kyuubey offered her confirmation anyway.
>If she was able to concoct a plan
This doesn't mean anything, she's only omnipresent. She cared enough to go in and save her and take her away to be with her forever, what more do you want?
>The point is that she didn't give a fuck at all about Homura.
I was referring to the plan being "not to cause her more suffering", I don't remember them saying that at any point. And of course Sayaka didn't give a shit about about Homura, why the hell would she? Homura didn't give a shit about her in any timeline, and Sayaka said she was there to protect Madoka from Kyuubey as she saved Homura and to see Kyouko again, not to save Homura herself. Is your problem wih Sayaka really that she wasn't sucking Homura's dick when Homura had tried to kill her in the series? Homura only cared about Madoka, so why should Sayaka care about someone who doesn't care about her?
>Did she need to become a witch?
Who knows, this isn't directly explained to my recollection.
>If their goal was to ease her into acceptance
You don't know what their goal was outside of "Take Homura to Yuri Valhalla", why do you keep adding in shit you have no way of knowing?
Madoka, as a concept/goddess, does not have the kinds of extreme emotions or desires that are present(and inevitably lead to despair) in the mortal world. She also doesn't have as much power as you seem to think, she can't just pick Homura up from earth.
As for Sayaka, she was playing the undercover role. She confronted Homura, asked her to not be so hard on the witch(which was Homura), and to make sure she has no regrets.
I think Sayaka didn't have to accept the responsibility of saving Homura, but she did because she regret leaving behind Kyouko. Another agent of the law of cycles could have been in her place, I guess.
Sayaka and Nagisa know that Homura will be rescued, so I guess that would be their excuse.
Homura doesn't proclaim herself as evil, she just observes that her existence is known as evil. She actually transforms into a demon, it's not something she just says or makes up. She's a demon in the sense of trapping a goddess in the mortal world of desires, rather than accepting salvation/death. She's 'evil' in the sense of putting her own suffering/love/desires above everything else.
Akuma Homura is a better alternative if you're concerned about happiness and desires as opposed to order and stability. I'd say the new world is the best possible situation or "end" for fictional characters.
>No fucking shit.
>>her wish gave her the power to protect Madoka
>Wrong, it was the time loops, this was already explained.
If that was so obvious, why did you say to the contrary?
>The time loops are where she got all of her witch power.
Complete speculation on your part as witch power is determined by how much karmic destiny you have, it's never shown that Homura was affected by the time loops the same way Madoka was in any way.
>She would have had to have more karmic destiny than Madoka in order for her wish to undo Madoka's.
She didn't undo her wish, she merely removed a part of Madoka from the LoC. The LoC is still Madoka as well, they're just two separate beings. All she did was make a witch barrier and rewrite everyone's memories, exactly as she had in the previous barrier, so that the Madoka she separated from LoC wouldn't return to it. She didn't undo her wish.
>Okay, so she's just as power as a magic girl an she is as a witch.
>Yeah, you didn't watch the show.
I just quoted you the fucking show word for word, dumbass.
>No, just Homura. Try to keep up.
Because she has power over Madoka. Try to keep up.
>Only she can do this because she has no much stored grief energy from all her time loops.
Again, no evidence for this anywhere.
>She's 'evil' in the sense of putting her own suffering/love/desires above everything else.
I agree, but I find it interesting that those desires she's so wickedly holding above everyone and everything else is the well being and happiness of Muhdoka.
Could Mami have regenerated if she didn't keep her gem on her head? What if there were other magical girls present to keep her body alive (ala what Kyouko did for Sayaka's body later on). Even if Mami's body got completely destroyed, would Mami still be 'alive' as long as her gem was in tact?
>by hurting innocent people
That's not even remotely right. The despair was from them cursing themselves and going insane. That's exactly what happened to Homura. Madoka should have been outraged the Incubators made this happen and hurry to her with open arms apologizing for letting her down, but she didn't.
>She wasn't able to become close with anyone besides Madoka before the trauma either.
This isn't true. Her deepest desire was to be a part of the gang once again. She did fall in love with Madoka, that was the point of her character. Her feelings aren't an obsession like people claim, it's the pain she suffered all alone that made her so tied up on it.
>They're still the same as they were in the series, the situation has merely changed.
Homura wouldn't have trusted them if she didn't fully believe they were allies in the new world, which could only come from her new-world experiences.
>Of course they wouldn't
Exactly, Homura wanted to reassure herself she didn't make it up and it's really possible Madoka might still be by her side. It failed.
>Sounds like she wanted confirmation to comfort herself to know she wasn't crazy.
She didn't ask anyone to comfort her on being in love with thin air. All she asked for was reassurance that the girl she loved could still be out there.
>She cared enough to go in and save her and take her away to be with her forever, what more do you want?
She would do this for anyone. In the barrier we saw Madoka treat Homura as extremely special and important to her, but Godoka did not.
>I don't remember them saying that at any point
Yeah, because their plan was to protect their own asses and have fun doing it. Homura was an afterthought and that's fucked up. Sayaka would have seen that what you said wasn't true and Homura was only forced into protecting one person after failing countless times. How Sayaka could feel no shame or guilt in being the catalyst that cause Homura to kill Madoka and break is baffling.
Yes, and yes. Your Soul Gem is your soul, they could use magic to regenerate your body, or you could potentially control another body that isn't your original body as long as your soul gem is intact.
>why did you say to the contrary?
I never said anything to contrary, you're just retarded.
>Complete speculation on your part
Why don't you remember this show, at all.
>same strings entangle both Homura and Madoka
>the strings represent Madoka's power because the of all the destinies tied to her and by that token also represent Homura's power/grief
>Kyuubee says as soon as Homura gives up hope she will instantly be consumed by disrepair
>implying she has more grief than other magic girls
I'm so done with you. Not even going to bother with the rest.
And before you grasp anymore, the first first screen shot is from the first half of episode 11, and the second screen shot is from the latter half. The first one is Madoka, and the second one is Homura.
There are people that don't think they are all gay?
>The despair was from them cursing themselves and going insane.
Except every single magical girl was taken by the LoC when their soulg gem had completely tainted and they were about to turn into a witch, so obviously that isn't the case.
>Her deepest desire was to be a part of the gang once again.
That doesn't mean she grew close to Sayaka or any of the others, you can be a part of the gang while only being acquaintances with the others.
>Homura wouldn't have trusted them if she didn't fully believe they were allies in the new world
Well seeing as she did, and they clearly weren't, you don't have much of a leg to stand on here.
>Homura wanted to reassure herself she didn't make it up and it's really possible Madoka might still be by her side
There was no reason to believe that Kyuubey would be able to confirm this, and he didn't. She was just looking to tell someone and Kyuubey wouldn't tell people she might need help like the others might have if she wasn't able to convey herself properly.
>She would do this for anyone.
That's because she loved everyone equally and wants to be useful to everyone. Homura was never someone special to her outside of being someone she was able to protect. At least, no more special to her than Mami, Sayaka, her family, or anyone else. That's sort of the point, Homura wants special treatment, and Madoka doesn't view Homura in the same way Homura views her.
>Homura was an afterthought and that's fucked up.
To Sayaka and Nagisa. Madoka just had no memories and didn't know what was going on.
>Sayaka would have seen that what you said wasn't true
Are you trying to say she didn't try to kill Sayaka? And that they got along?
>How Sayaka could feel no shame or guilt in being the catalyst that cause Homura to kill Madoka and break is baffling.
I don't think they're all gay.
Sayaka is bi.
>you're just retarded.
Why don't you remember this show, at all.
That picture is from two completely different scenes. In one, Kyuubey is explaining why Madoka has such latent potential and the other is just explaining how Homura is bound to this cycle forever or she'll turn into a witch. There's no evidence she became stronger, in fact it's to the contrary. Madoka is shown to become stronger through the constant of Walprugis. Walprugis stays the same strength and each time Madoka fought it in the time loops, she was able to defeat it more easily. Walprugis didn't become stronger, so if Homura was somehow gaining strength the same way as Madoka, why was she never able to defeat Walprugis? You taking scenes out of context and all that other shit doesn't change facts from the show.
>I'm so done with you. Not even going to bother with the rest.
I'm glad you're admitting you were wrong, maybe you having to go back and mash evidence supporting your claim together that contradicted the show showed you how retarded you're being. You could claim just about anything taking two different scenes out of context.
>can't even remember to quote correctly
So you're new?
>That picture is from two completely different scenes
Almost like I fucking said this.
>There's no evidence she became stronger
The identical string set up on both Homura and Madoka. I guess that was just something they decided to do for no reason.
>Walprugis stays the same strength
And? That's because the time loops are centered around Madoka and Homura.
>I'm glad you're admitting you were wrong
So pathetic. Is this how you win all your arguments? Belligerently yelling false facts as people, and completely missing the point of what's said? because you've done that at least a dozen times.
God, I can't believe you got another reply at out of me.
He thinks claiming the scenes are "out of context" makes him right. What he doesn't seem to understand is they just because two scenes don't happen at the exact same same second doesn't mean they are not in the same context.
>I don't get how people could hate Homura
Because the writers make her withhold valuable information for the sake of dramatic pacing, under the thin excuse of "You wouldn't believe me!" Really, Homura? You can show people frozen time, but can't convince them you know the future?
>So you're new?
No, but you even resorting to this nonsense calls into question whether you are or not. I don't know why you'd think this was even relevant, are you just grasping at straws at this point?
>The identical string set up on both Homura and Madoka. I guess that was just something they decided to do for no reason.
They were both bound to the situation at hand for completely different reasons, Madoka's illustrated how she was bound because of how her potential had increased and Homura was bound because if she stopped, she'd turn into a witch. This isn't showing that Homura was becoming stronger.
>And? That's because the time loops are centered around Madoka and Homura.
Okay, so why didn't Homura one shot Walprugis like Madoka did if she was becoming stronger from the time loops like you claim?
>Belligerently yelling false facts as people
If they're false, show me where it says Homura was getting stronger because of the time loops, or fuck show me evidence where she became stronger.
It was showing they were both bound to this time loop, but for separate reasons, it wasn't showing how Homura was becoming stronger because her karmic destiny was increasing like it was for Madoka.
Retarded and endless discussion aside, I don't understand how the not being attracted to each other would make them automatically straight.
There is little to nothing indicating that they would be prone to seek a male partner, well, besides Sayaka's crush, Madoka and Mami joking about wishing for a boyfriend, and the last one saying that dating boys is one of the things a magical girl must deprive herself from. Other than that, not much,
Yeah. Pic related, it's Mami being nice to Homura.
>Not liking Mami for her smile, her curly blonde hair, and acumen as a magical gunslinger.
Why you do this Anon?
Nice rebuttal, I'm assuming you meant to say grasping? Alright, well for context here's the scene with Madoka tied up in front of the gears.
>Isn't it possible that Madoka became more powerful as a magical girl every time you reset the timeline? I thought so. You were the cause. Or should I call it a side effect of your magic? You traveled through time for just one purpose: to protect Kaname Madoka. By turning back time over and over, each time for the same reason and goal, you inadvertently caused multiple timelines to converge together and centered them all on Kaname Madoka. If Madoka's threads of fate from each of those separate timelines all ended up linking to the Madoka in this current timeline, that would explain why her magical potential appears so impossibly huge. All the karmic destiny you sent spinning across all of those different timelines eventually attached to Kaname Madoka. After all, everything you did was for her. Excellent work, Homura. You've raised Madoka to be the most powerful witch we've ever seen.
>all superficial, vain and shallow "qualities"
Mami a shit and anyone who likes her is a shit. Homu was right about her.
And here's Homura's,
>... she still hasn't given up hope. If it comes down to it, I'm sure she'll nullify this timeline like the others, and continue fighting. She'll continue to repeat this meaningless chain of events and never be any the wiser. At this point, it's no longer possible for her to stop or give up. The moment she believes that everything was pointless, that your fate cannot be changed, Akemi Homura will succumb to despair and become a Grief Seed. She knows that all too well. That's why she doesn't have a choice. She must continue to fight, even if she has no chance of winning.
There isn't anything about Homura getting stronger anywhere. Not even anything relatively close. The point was to illustrate how they were both bound to this fate, not to show that they both became stronger from the time loops, something that's contradicted by the events of the show.
You could have just said this in your first post, there was no need to make two separate posts.
>Must such only being able to take things in a literal sense.
I guess it makes sense someone who can't write can't read either. It must be difficult drawing conclusions that aren't there and aren't even supported by facts.
>Sayaka: Uh, so why exactly would Kyubey lie about something like that?
>Homura: That's because...
>Sayaka: Are you trying to turn us against each other by telling us something weird? Wait, you're not working together with that Kyouko girl, are you?
>And then Sayaka goes on about how she doesn't like Homura's explosives.
Homura really tried her best to convince them there! No wonder she gave up later, what with such a convincing argument failing to persuade them!
How about: she can memorize baseball scores or stock numbers from the day after she meets everyone, and tell them beforehand! BOOM. CONVINCED. I thought that shit up right now. She had the lifespan of 100 Bill Murrays to figure it out. No excuse.
>come into thread to laugh at yurifags
>realize this actually has canon yuri now
It can't be helped.
>anon accused that she is liked by a single physical trait
>anon responded emphasizing various more
I see nothing wrong with that, captain.
>Homura really tried her best to convince them there!
Yes, she did. She's not very smart and she's socially impaired. So for her to successfully come up with a plan to convince people, as you would prefer, makes no sense.
How is that vindictive? From Mami's point of view, Homura has threatened her friends and herself and she has absolutely no reason to trust her, all she does is tie her up to prevent her from potentially hurting her friends while she's occupied fighting the witch and say she'll release her when they're done. She's only doing it to protect Madoka and Sayaka since she is still under the impression Homura is out to prevent them from becoming her competition and Homura has done nothing to inspire any confidence in what she's saying.
You forgot the part where Madoka defends Homura against Sayaka's accusations.
As for convincing the girls that magical girls are basically witches in the making, well I doubt anyone would really accept that until they see it with their own eyes. Of course, accepting something like that basically removes all hope of doing any good as a magical girl. So unless you have a time reset cheat power, and strong enough emotions to keep fighting for your wish, there's not much point in being a magical girl.
She puts on a strong front and gives off a refined air to her kouhai, but is a very emotionally delicate and lonely girl. Despite this, she can't bring herself to break out of her comfort zone and distances herself from others. She dedicates herself to what she does out of guilt for her brash decision and inability to save her parents as a result and so as penance she resigns herself to fighting evil to help the weak with her strong moral center. Despite her refined air, she's still immature and is apt to lose herself in her excitement, putting her life in danger. She's an intelligent tactician, able to survive harsh, life threatening conditions despite choosing the hardest route to most minimize the danger to the innocent, and has a flair for the theatrics.
Because preventing someone who has already threatened yourself and the people you care about who have no means to defend themselves from attacking them while you can't defend them when given no evidence that she should trust this person is myopic. You're not even trying.
She's unable to think bigger than her own emotionally driven suspicions and uses everything as confirmation, regardless of whether or not it's actually indicative. She's myopic.
>lacking imagination, foresight, or intellectual insight.
What would be logical about trusting the person who threatened you and your friends to not act on her threats while you're occupied fighting for your life? It would be more emotionally driven to ignore all the evidence to the contrary and trust she wouldn't.
There was literally nothing showing Homura in a light other than an hostile one, not only from the situation itself but from her part as well. She can't really be myopic when there is really nothing to see.
She didn't bother looking for any other details as she's not interested in being proven wrong. She has her theory, and doesn't care about putting it to the test or looking for more information. She's emotionally driven. All of this because she' myopic.
What other details? There were none. Homura wasn't interested in correcting her misunderstanding, she couldn't have been proven wrong even if she wanted to. The only way she would have at that point is if she allowed Homura to accompany her and risked the lives of her friends in the process, which would have actually been myopic.
She didn't really have a conversation with Homura. She made no attempt to get any information out of her or settle this in a mature way. Granted, Homura wouldn't either but she's not who we're talking about right now. She only insulted and belittled Homura, then threatened her and left. Zero attempt to text her theory. In her mind, she knows she is right so thinks there's no point in making any further inquires.
>You know you're putting innocent civilians in danger, don't you?
>They've been chosen by Kyubey. They're no longer "innocent civilians."
>You're leading them toward becoming magical girls.
>And I take it you don't like that?
>That's right. It's a nuisance. Especially in the case of Kaname Madoka.
>I see. So you've noticed her potential as well.
>I cannot, under any circumstances, allow her to make a contract.
>Is it because you're afraid that anyone stronger will get in your way? Sounds like paranoia to me.
>I have no reason to fight you, but...
There were plenty of opportunities for Homura to correct Mami's misunderstanding in that conversation, she simply chose not to. In fact, not only did she not correct anything Mami said, she threatened her. There's absolutely no reason for Mami to trust Homura. It's almost baffling how you could suggest otherwise, or berate her for not doing so.
It's not that one-sided. Homura does attempt to negotiate, but Mami is zealously attached to the idea of magical girls and justice. Her defense for pulling innocents like Madoka and Sayaka into the magical girl business is that Kyubey chose them.
Homura was also not transformed when confronting her. Not a threat, but still got tied up. She seems surprised, so I guess that doesn't normally happen.
However, the excessive ribbons, and especially the tightening when Homura tries to move. Totally unnecessary. I'm pretty sure she just wanted to listen to Homura struggle a bit.
No where in that conversation does she make any attempt to disprove her theory or gain any new information. And then she jumps on the opportunity to confirm it, instantly assuming Homura is just afraid of Madoka. It's clear she had no interest in being proven wrong. That is the exact opposite of the way people who want to test their theories think.
Thank you for exposing yourself as a typical waifufag. I never insulted Mami or spoke harshly about her.
>No where in that conversation does she make any attempt to disprove her theory or gain any new information
You must not have very good people skills. Typically, if someone says
>>Is it because you're afraid that anyone stronger will get in your way? Sounds like paranoia to me.
You correct them and explain yourself, not threaten to fight them.
>It's clear she had no interest in being proven wrong. That is the exact opposite of the way people who want to test their theories think.
You're right, I'm sure she would have completely ignored her if she explained herself. This isn't a fucking science experiment, she's talking to someone outwardly hostile toward her and her friends. If some guy beat the shit out of one of your friends and then said the same kind of cryptic shit she said, and then threatened you without making any attempt to correct anything you said as wrong, you probably wouldn't trust them to hold on to your wallet while you went for a swim, let alone in a situation where your life is on the line.
>I never insulted Mami or spoke harshly about her.
>So what you're saying is that Mami is a vindictive child, so her actions are justified.
>Okay, so she's not a vindictive child. She's a myopic child. muuuuch better.
Most people would take being called a vindictive child as an insult, especially if it wasn't true.
Homura didn't care about sending the proper message. This however does not excuse Mami for not trying to get Homura to do so.
>This isn't a fucking science experiment,
It's not all that different though. Typically, when someone believes something, they want to try and prove it. The best way to prove something is to see how well it stands up to everything that in theory would disprove it. Mami makes no attempt to disprove her theory. She make no attempt to see if Homura may have some other motive. All she did in her conversation with Homu is claim that she's just jealous of Madoka's potential.
>Most people would take being called a vindictive child as an insult,
Mami is 15. She's a child. She's vindictive and myopic. No insults there.
>This however does not excuse Mami for not trying to get Homura to do so.
Please. What is she supposed to do, interrogate her? She asked the appropriate questions to allow for Homura to explain herself, there's nothing more that she's responsible for.
>Typically, when someone believes something, they want to try and prove it.
Homura made it clear she wasn't going to tell Mami anything, so the only way she could have proven it is by not tying up Homura, and by doing that endangering the lives of her and her friends. Sounds like from a logical standpoint, she made the right choice. Of course, this ended up not being the case, but there was no evidence to the contrary at the time.
>She's vindictive and myopic.
Except she isn't.
It's also understandable, though, at least in her case. As she made clear, most magical girls are selfish, aggresive or don't like to work together. Thus why each one has their own territory.
After doing this for years and probably endured more than one bad experience or encounter with another meguca, it's not a surprise she prefers to take no risks or trust her.
>She asked the appropriate questions to allow for Homura to explain herself,
No she didn't. She didn't ask anything important at all. She didn't even ask the simplest of all questions: why.
>Why did you turn down my Grief Seed?
>Why were you following us?
>Why did you attack Kyubey?
She asked nothing important really. Again, Homura wouldn't have answered her. But if she wasn't myopic, she would have asked.
She had perfectly justifiable reasons for her behavior, I agree. But that doesn't mean I can't tell delusional waifufags that she's not perfect.
>Homura does attempt to negotiate, but Mami is zealously attached to the idea of magical girls and justice.
Too late at that point. Mami had already told her after Homura threatened her with violence to stay away, if she wanted to prevent this outcome she should have attempted to be more diplomatic.
>Homura was also not transformed when confronting her. Not a threat, but still got tied up.
Homura is an unknown, why would Mami risk letting her transform without knowing what her powers or abilities are after she attacked Kyubey, threatened herself and has made it very clear that she "cannot, under any circumstances, allow [Madoka] to make a contract."
>However, the excessive ribbons, and especially the tightening when Homura tries to move. Totally unnecessary.
Again, she's an unknown, better safe than sorry. It's not as if her life was endangered.
>But that doesn't mean I can't tell delusional waifufags that she's not perfect
It's not like you really need to remind anyone about it. Though, waifufags like that are for every and each of the girls.
Probably excluding Kyoukofags, but that may be because I haven't seen many of those lately
>>Why did you turn down my Grief Seed?
There was no need to ask that, really, it wasn't important in the slightest.
>>Why were you following us?
>>Why did you attack Kyubey?
Both of those questions could have been answered by answering
>>And I take it you don't like that?
You don't have to ask specific questions to get relevant answers. Mami's questions extended branch, it was Homura's job to grab it. If she isn't going to answer her questions, she's not going to answer her questions, it doesn't take much to figure that out. She probably was able to figure that out around the time she threatened her.
>But if she wasn't myopic
Seems you're the only one myopic here.
>But that doesn't mean I can't tell delusional waifufags that she's not perfect.
What gave you the impression of this exactly? I don't recall ever saying or even hinting that she was perfect. You're saying she's things she clearly isn't. You're the one being delusional here.
Mami's suffering was the only suffering that really got to me. There's just something so pitiful about a person putting up a facade of strength when they're desperately lonely and emotionally weak that I find depressing.
>There's just something so pitiful about a person putting up a facade of strength when they're desperately lonely and emotionally weak that I find depressing
Each girls does something like that at some point or in her own way.
>You don't have to ask specific questions to get relevant answers.
But you definitely should. To get specific answers, you ask specific questions. This way, you don't allow them to branch out without completely ducking your question. You should never expect someone to give you a specific answer to a vague question. That's stupid. It is not Homura's job to answer a question she was not asked. This goes beyond asking questions by the way. No matter what it is, when you want to prove something, you conduct a thorough experiment. So again, if Mami was truly interested in proving her theory beyond a shadow of a doubt (she wasn't) she'd have been much more thorough in in her inquiry. The reason she wasn't interested in proving her theory is because to her, it was already true. Why? Because she's myopic.
Except Nagisa. Who's an emotionless bitch who thinks nothing of ruining Sayaka's confession, which she had to wait forever to give.
People ask general questions all the time, people typically know what it is you want to know. If you're not doing your work and your boss asks you, "What are you doing?" he didn't ask you "Why are you not doing your job while we're paying you?" but you know what it is he wants to know. Homura knew what Mami wanted to know, and she was intentionally cryptic because she had know intention of telling her anything. You know it, I know it, Mami knew it, I fail to see why this is even a discussion. It's not myopic as there's nothing else she could have done, you don't assume you're wrong when people's lives are in danger and risk endangering them, you play it safe, which is exactly what she did.
Sayaka just goes full emo and full edge at the first sign of problems.
Kyouko takes it out on the world as the Ayn Rand meguka.
Madoka openly spends most of the anime calling everything horrible.
Homu is the girl of action and spend the entire anime trying to bend the world to her will.
But Mami is the miserable girl with a strong facade who soldiers on through loneliness and pain.
I think Mami and Homu might be secret men.
>If you're not doing your work and your boss asks you,
That's a totally different context. It isn't relevant here what so ever.
>Homura knew what Mami wanted to know, and she was intentionally cryptic because she had know intention of telling her anything. You know it, I know it, Mami knew it, I fail to see why this is even a discussion.
But she didn't try. That's the point. She didn't even make an attempt. For the thousandth fucking time, if you want to prove your theory, you conduct an experiment that will prove it, you ask questions and prove tests that may disprove it. You behave and act thoroughly. What part f this do you not understand? Mami was not, I repeat, she was not interested in proving her theory. The way Mami behaved proved that she was not really interested in proving her theory. That or shes fucking stupid and has no idea how to ask specific question. In which case, you'd have to be really fucking stupid. So I'm going with the former: disinterest in acquiring proof.
And they are all fragile girls at heart, no exceptions, but Kyouko, Mami and Homura are the ones showing themselves differently from how they truly feel.
>That's a totally different context.
The girl that you are stalking and have attacked her friend has just asked "I take it you don't like that" to you pointing out that you are leading two girls to becoming magical girls. She obviously wants to know why this is a problem, but instead you say "It's a nuisance" and give no actual explanation as to why. When she attempts to clarify the situation using her past experience and asks you if that's the reason, she clearly would like for you to explain yourself. Instead, you threaten her with violence, immediately ending the conversation. The context was pretty clear.
>But she didn't try.
She clearly did, and when the conversation lead to threats of violence, it was clear she wasn't going to get anywhere. People answer cryptically because they have no intention of telling you, asking specific questions isn't going to magically have then answer you when it's clear they have no intention of telling you what you want to know, it will just lead to more cryptic answers or just having them flat out tell you it's none of your concern.
It's like if you were forgetting all those times she breaks while around Madoka. Even if she is good at hiding and endure those things, she can't make those buried feelings dissapear.
I give up. The simple, verifiable concepts are lost on you. The idea of attempting to find proof, the idea of solidifying your assertion or argument as true seem to be outside of your reach. Mami was not thorough. She was no precise. She was not thinking outside of her own preconceived notion that she was right. And you even prove that for me.
>She obviously wants to know why this is a problem
She's assuming Homura is already on the same page as her, already know that she's expected to give an explanation. That she should already be aware of the issue at hand. No matter how clear these concepts and questions may be in an informal context, it does not preclude the requirement to dig deeper if you are interested in proving your theory.
>The idea of attempting to find proof, the idea of solidifying your assertion or argument as true seem to be outside of your reach.
The funny thing is, there's just as much evidence for your claim as there is mine, you're just under the mistaken assumption that yours is a fact, which it isn't. Her not being precise is no more evidence to her being myopic than anything else in the series. Homura's myopic because she should have had the foresight to know she might put Madoka in danger if she makes it to where she can't get close to Mami, who is around Madoka quite a bit. Kyouko is mypoic because she lacked the intellectual insight to think Sayaka was probably never coming back and put Madoka's life at risk for something that wasn't going to work. Kyubey is myopic for not thinking maybe a system that runs on despair could go awry. You're myopic for thinking this conversation was going to go anywhere and not just be "MY SPECULATION > YOUR SPECULATION". Everyone in everything ever is myopic. Congratulations.
She murdered ringo-meguca and therefore deserves to die alone. Mumi is horrible.
Madoka is short. Only 12 episodes. It's very tight and concise as well. There's not a lot of time for Butcher to use repeated instances to prove that a character trait is more than a one of. For that reason, I believe we should examine what we have and hold it as important, rather than simply saying we know nothing about the characters other than what they'd shown multiple times.
Homu is too gay to consider Mami a pure friend like Madoka.
She certainly has the most, but that doesn't negate the fact that there are more scenes that could be used as evidence toward any single character having autism than there are scenes showing that Mami is myopic.
Well, Kyouko is unable to properly engage in conversation and difficulty with not physically lashing out, as made evident with her first two conversations with Sayaka. She has the repetitive behavior of always eating something. That's at least 4 more examples that Kyouko is autistic than the one given for Mami being myopic.
>It is distinguished not by a single symptom, but by a characteristic triad of symptoms: impairments in social interaction; impairments in communication; and restricted interests and repetitive behavior. Other aspects, such as atypical eating, are also common but are not essential for diagnosis.
Is this a joke? Alright.
Sayaka has difficulty empathizing or understanding other people's perspectives, such as when she lashes out at Madoka for not contracting. She has an unusual response to sensory experiences, such as laughing while in pain while she was fighting the witch. She has a lot of difficulty regulating her emotions, allowing herself to be injured to punish herself, verbal outbursts, looking again at Madoka, and physically aggressive behavior, like when she kills those two guys on the train. She also has an intense and persistent preoccupation with the topics of "right and wrong/justice" and music.
Those are also symptoms of autism. My point wasn't that anyone had autism, it was that you could claim anyone had just about anything with evidence supporting your claim, but that doesn't make it true.
No, she is the face of beauty and justice.
I'm the OP, and I went to bed once people started arguing about the same stuff they do in every Madoka Magica thread. Suffice to say that was pretty quickly.
Maybe this will teach me not to make any more.
Wasn't the whole point that Homura found Mami's nature to be too stubborn? Not sure about the first timeline, but the following ones probably made her think so. Mainly just the fact that she can't handle harsh truths and would rather stay in the dark than risk finding out, as we see with her reaction to the witches ((this would also contribute not really liking her in subsequent timelines)) as well as her presumption that Charlotte would be like any other Witch.
Other than that, I'd say it could also be because in almost all timelines after the first, she either dies from Charlotte or kills Kyoko and has to be put down by Madoka after Sayaka becomes a witch ((we all know how Homura doesn't like people making Madoka sad.)) even if those didn't happen, she would most likely always die against Walpurgisnacht. Since at least the first two are due to the previous stated problem about her making stubborn assumptions and her inability to accept a harsh reality, it's not really surprising to me that Homura has lost patience with her, or at least has forced herself to care less about her to save some grief and focus on Saving Madoka without her instability.
The reason Homura acted the way she did was because of the third timeline, knowing she can't approach Mami how she would like to. After attacking Kyubey so boldly, she put herself in a situation where she wasn't able to explain her actions without compromising Mami's stability or risking being caught by Kyubey.
Though, it's stupid to say that, each time Mami found the truth, Kyouko ended up killed. That scenario was extremely situational (as well as her emotional state during the fight we saw with Charlotte, main reason she got herself killed), probably the worst possible, and could hardly repeat itself. If she were to find out the truth in other timelines, pretty sure she would be more prone to kill herself than anything else.
>everything in this post is retardedly wrong.
Except it's not.
>Urobuchi: No matter how Homura reveals the truth, it’s going to hurt Mami. So Homura ignores her rather than hurt her.