What is the essential quality that separates the character interactions in 'typical' anime and manga from interactions between real 3D people (for better or for worse)?
To me it seems that most 2D characters are written such that their reactions and forms of emotional expression are more genuine, more earnest; in contrast, interaction between real people is cruder in some inexpressible fashion.
I don't entirely know how to put it into words so I was hoping that others could contribute with some insights. Just imagine some 'typical' interaction from a 'typical' anime or manga, the sort of non-important chatter that gets put in the corner of a panel or two or the lunchtime banter of background characters shown for only a couple seconds in passing.
Anything made for entertainment is made to entertain you. Real life, for the most part, is boring as fuck and conversations are dull. If any form of medium wasn't written in a way that differs from real life no one would like it. There's nothing to think about.
Your statements are true by definition; that is, all you've done is reiterated the fact that real people are real and unreal people are unreal (and of course by definition traits of real characters are necessarily equally or more real than those of unreal characters), I.e., you haven't said anything substantive whatsoever.
I am interested not in the fact alone that unreal characters are unreal (which is self-evident) or, in fact, the real/unreal distinction at all, aside from their use in labeling the domains of the 3D vs, 2D worlds. What I am interested in is the manner of conversation that has come to be characteristic of a significant number of anime and manga and how precisely it differs from interaction in the 3D world.
In some respects people in 2D seem kinder (when they are not outright meant to be antagonistic or indifferent). But it is not just a matter of kindness, it is almost a sort of 'childish' (in the sense of being characteristic of children in 3D, not in the sense of being immature) earnestness, if you follow my meaning.
>But it is not just a matter of kindness, it is almost a sort of 'childish' (in the sense of being characteristic of children in 3D, not in the sense of being immature) earnestness, if you follow my meaning.
Yes. Anime is for pedophiles and innocence and naivety is desirable by smelly otaku.
It also seems that characters are more 'genuine' in some sense.
It makes me wish that people in real life managed to preserve that unique aspect of their innocence as they aged; I think it manifests mostly in the ability to express oneself in an earnest, almost purposefully simplistic manner (because one finds oneself less constrained when one purposefully chooses to approach human interaction in a more genuine fashion). I think most people lose that as they age, as they acclimate to society, and it makes me a bit sad.
Those qualities are largely a result of three principles in writing fiction:
necessity of consistent characters
genres enforced partitioning of social interactions
tyranny of the narrative
Real people are inconsistent. Take the stereotypical neckbeard on /a/ for example, /a/non will preach about hiding power levels, yet they came out in droves to, say, Madoka movie premiere. No one would really care if you act a little different today than yesterday. But in fiction, a little change and they're suddenly out-of-character!
The first action of any literature is set the stage, which of course that includes presenting the main characters, who they are, how they behave. To follow along, the audience need to grasp and predict how the characters would react to situations and interact with others.
In fiction, characters come alive when the audience begins to know them. To know, they have to well defined. Regardless of how well the characterization are, one-dimensional or complex, they all by necessity have to be consistent, in their inner dialogue and actions.
Its this consistency from which fictional characters seem so earnest, genuine, and etc. Once you know them, you know how they will act. This kind of confidence and assurance is simply harder to come by in real life.
Why do so many variety of romance genre exist? Because in fiction, various stages and possibilities of romance get partitions into narrow bands from which genres arise.
Shounen romance where a boy meets girl(s);
Shoujo romance where a girl meets boy(s);
Teenage romance where it ends with a kiss;
Seinen romance where it ends with p0n0s in v0g0s;
And so forth. You see this sort of partitioning beyond simple romance too. Events in life that naturally flow from one stage to another becomes marginalized and condensed depending on what genre this fiction fit into. Overwhelmingly, fiction avoids talking about LIFE, but only a narrow, fetishized band of life.
This makes all fiction scenarios. Going in, you know which characters have agencies and the limited set of circumstances they would interact. Hence, audience feels a certain clarity in knowing how their interpersonal interactions worked, works, and will work.
judging and lies imo
>i cant believe she said that
>omg look at that loser
>yeah mom im totally not gonna get drunk tonight
>i cant believe she said that, maybe we should talk to her about it
>hey man i find that kinda funny but ????
>mom can i please have the booze im old enough now
the world would be a better place imo
If you go out tomorrow and dies from a hit-and-run, no one at your wake will talk shit about your story didn't went anywhere. Yet in fiction, that's one of most common critiques. Fiction is constrained in the ways it can unfold. This is called the tyranny of the narrative.
There're no anticipation in life, no setup. If a person suddenly dies, that's life; If a relationship suddenly falls apart, that's life; If things are out of your hands, that's life too.
Yet any and all of above would make for a shitty story. Thus if you have a harem, all the main love interests will get introduced in the beginning. If you have a battle shonen, the MC will travel down the royal road. If you're watching a Urobuchi show, MC will have to choose between the girl and the world in the penultimate episode.
In summary, real life people are inconsistent, crude, and confounding. Thus we look into fiction for comfort. We know the characters; we know what they'll do; and they can hide nothing from us, hence they feel more genuine, earnest, and accessible.
If we REALLY knew what they'll do, as in complete spoiler for the entire course of the story (100% prediction, etc.), then the story wouldn't be as interesting as it is. We read a story for what we DON'T know is going to happen, if we think a character is going to do something we want to know HOW he does it.
Though I get what you are saying about how honestly the characters are portrayed.
Well you would still know how they're going to act and I think it kind of brings a sense of reassurance when you do.
>Typical cry baby protagonist
>He's put in situations along the way that make him stronger and stronger as a person
>Finally there's the BIG situation that is some kind of important matter where he has to step up to the plate
>At the start of the serious he wouldn't
>But now, he's ready
In real life, people could do any number of things.
>Well you would still know how they're going to act
Not necessarily. Twists are a thing that exist, subversions of expectations, etc.
Good stories are just things that people come up with from witnessing stuff happen in reality and gathering several facets, situations and aspects from what they saw and weaving them together to make a story that brings pleasure to those who read it.
I don't really know why you have such a distinction between 2d and 3d. Maybe you watch too many chinese cartoons and think that cartoons are the only things that tell stories.
>are more genuine, more earnest
I think more exaggerated for comic reasons than anything else. If you reacted like in mango and anime in real life, it would seem over active or obnoxious.
Please share then, since you're so well read, a masterpiece where the protagonist dies in chapter 2 (and no live on as a ghost or whatever); a romance where the guy suddenly quits the relationship half way because he has to move (and not spend rest of the story clinging on to the relationship); a story where MC lacks any agency and lives an absolutely irrelevant life.
>person suddenly dies
Joturna dies in all of like 5 pages in BotNS
>no agency, MC does nothing
Taipei by Tai Lin and all of his alt lit imitators
>MC him/herself dies in the middle
Psycho (movie) is the classic example
sorry I don't read tripe
>reads stories where the MC doesn't do anything
>sorry I don't read tripe
also a simple google search reveals you are utterly full of shit as 'tyranny of the narrative' is essentially only used as a complaint about sensational journalism or about editors/companies limiting the artist's creative freedom, not something inherent in fiction itself, dipshit
Don't make it out like some /a/non invented or abuse that term. Just because you're not familiar with it doesn't make it false.
When Inio Asano talked about his new manga post-Punpun, he gushes about how free he felt writing writing without an overarching plot in mind. Spent 7 years drawing out a story he spent 30 minutes plotting out was suffocating for him. Which is why he found inspiration from Saint Young Man to work on a unstructured manga instead.
>Asano: The biggest difference from Punpun is the lack of a predetermined plot. I’ve chosen to work away at it chapter by chapter, deciding my next move as I go along. I don’t know how long the series will continue for, either — it could be really brief, or it could continue forever as my life work, in the mold of a Danchi Tomoo. What I make this manga into will really depend on the response I get from the readers. That’s how I want to approach this new series.
That's the tyranny of narrative.
You were pretty spot on when you said 2D people are more "genuine". In anime and manga characters typically aren't very subtle. Facial expressions, reactions, opinions are usually presented to the audience in a very straightforward manner
In real life, people tend to be a bit more closed off. They aren't as quick to show how they're truly feeling. This is because most people are naturally self-conscious of what others think of them. Sure you have an occasional social butterfly, but they aren't going to instantly hug you and treat you like a good fried like you see in your Chinese cartoons. Basically, people are insecure because they're sentient and want others to have a good impression of them. Real life people, whether they know it or not, strategize and think over they're interactions with other people. But since 2D characters are tools for storytelling and not living in the traditional since, they have no reason to be concerned, and act in a way that is appropriate for the development of the story.