Understanding is only half of the concept. Muscle memory gets your hand strong enough to make straight lines, circles, and quickly draw shapes without too much thought or effort. It's the one thing I've noticed after I stopped drawing.
>>111465139 Actually, no, the "artistry" can be studied as well, barring the cases of extreme mental retardation - you can fake artistry just fine and no one else but you will catch on that it's something meticulously designed and not actual self-expression.
>>111465112 I'm fairly certain your definition of practice is held only by you.
OP is obviously asking whether repeated attempts at drawing will ultimately improve the quality, or whether the quality will forever be fixed by some inflexible inherited aptitude impervious to refinement
I frequent OC/drawfag threads from time to time on a couple different boards, and I have on multiple occasions run into people who did just that and whined that it's impossible to improve by practicing.
>>111464904 Practice is not 100% of getting good at drawing, but it's probably 90% of it.
There's years and years of art history, and there's a very good reason the Renaissance didn't happen as soon as humans learned to paint. They had to discover the techniques and learn to apply them properly, and with stuff like the plague or the iconoclasm getting in the way, it was inevitable that some steps backward were taken.
I'm saying this because there's a lot of techniques that have been passed down from previous generations of artists, and so practicing will get you pretty far, but in the end, most artists you consider to be professionals have had serious training with knowledgeable professionals that have a sizable library of technical knowledge and are good at conveying it.
That said, once you have found the proper environment (surrounded by knowledgeable artists available for advice and give constructive feedback), you'll definitely improve as long as you 1: practice and 2: have a good attitude. These are both equally important to the serious art student, and that kind of diligence can come naturally to some people more than others and that's really what amounts to what we think is "talent".
>>111465639 Involves things like not taking criticism personally, somehow avoiding comparing yourself to your peers, keeping an open mind and be willing to learn techniques even if you find them hard to understand, willing to give up old habits if they conflict with that the teacher is saying.
I would say 90% of /ic/ is guilty of a "bad attitude," because they constantly bitch at each other over art style, which is kind of irrelevant once you get to the meat of academic techniques.
>>111465824 Have you ever been to the IC hangout? You'll notice that those who improved the fastest usually have really chill attitudes towards art. I'm not disagreeing with you but talking to the artists themselves reveals a lot behind their fast improvement.
>>111466013 Just assume that you have the talent and go with it. Later people will call you talented for simply existing, not seeing the work put into it beforehand. Temeh (pic related) got a rsi from practicing 12 hours a day for a year, was it worth it? He's only working for 4 months a year you decide
The "you gotta have talent" shitposters are the worst.
Someone who is still learning tells them to shut up and practice more? >But you won't know if you can make it without talent until after you've made it! Someone who is already good tells them to shut up and practice more? >You made it so this means you obviously have talent, you don't know what it's like for people who don't!
This fucking attitude is why you'll never amount to anything, not your imaginary lack of talent.
The truth is that willingness to put in the necessary effort is the only actual talent that matters.
>>111464904 >Do you think a person can get good at drawing just by practicing it? Yes, a non-artistic person can get good at generating an illustration (I am a R&D theoretical engineer and managed to get my illustrating skills to a good technical level). But you need to define "drawing" or "art" terms very carefully because they are both very huge in terms of the many facets they cover, thus misunderstanding is rife. While you mean one facet, someone else may be thinking of the 8th facet of that word. Thus, to you, your opinion is usable but to that other person your opinion is incorrect (and vice versa).
I am technically competent and can feel how the media goes onto the paper as well as understand the principles of how much I can work the media (illustrating components) or the substrata (paper, board, etc). But I have none of the real artist's vision or imagination or visual creativity. So I am sterile at creating art. Give me a picture of Aoi Eir and I can put that onto digital canvas and manipulate it. So, I have taught myself how to draw, but have no talent at art. From my understanding of my own experiences, some people are thus naturally better at "art", but there also needs to be the opportunity for such a person to marry both their ability and that of the technical mastery of illustrating ideas onto either paper or digital canvas.
By teaching yourself drawing techniques, you will see if you have the other part that is necessary - the visual talent and imagination to make use of that technical ability of drawing. You have to train your drawing skill so that you are fast. Fast means you can try and do many things, throw them away, and start over. Otherwise, your ability to improve is very slow due to the lack of repetition cycles.
That's why I never picked it up. I'm apart of anime/manga for the escapism, in order to actually draw, you have to see the world around you, know how to draw a human, and the objects in this 3 dimensional world.
Even if it's something unreal like the hundreds of styles of drawing, you need to know 3D before you can into 2D.
If you want to actually draw and don't have the talent for it, you have to put in the extra time/effort than the others. But even then, you might not be good or just some copycat artist, and really you're no better than a tracer if you can't differentiate your work from anyone elses.
Practice is important, but that doesn't mean even 5 years, 5 hours a day will make you a good artist. You'll just suck less.
So at least enjoy what you're doing, but don't expect to be someone worth knowing. >pic unrelated He's someone worth knowing.
>tl;dr No, but practice anyway if you enjoy it, you'll learn more along the way to at least make you better than someone who doesn't know how to draw.
To my knowledge, talent when it comes to anything, including being an artist, is the same as rolling a d12 instead of a d10 like those who don't. However, even with talent, you're still gonna roll a d4 if you have a bad attitude about learning things, or maybe not even at all with specific things are involved, like physical or mental deficiencies, or trying to be a voice actor in the United States.
Money and time are also important, but those are subjects best explained in hindsight.
I'm no artist, but being good at anything requires insatiable curiosity, as well as either a chill mindset and/or really thick skin. Not that either is very hard to have, but being the kind of person ill-suited to become good at any creative medium is an attractive vice
Here are 11 volumes from the instructional series on drawing Manga from Graphic-Sha, Japanime Co. Ltd., and Japan Publications Trading Co. Includes volumes 1-4, 7, 12, 22, 23, 26, 28, and 36. The full series has 43 volumes.
For a different perspective on manga style illustration, try the Computones version. PC digital paint approach is different from physical mixed media.
Lmao, there's no need to start young. One of the most revered people in the concept art industry started when he was in his mid 20s. And was repeatedly told that he had no talent and should quit art by his art teaches.
Now look at his stuff now. Goodbrush.com
Also http://cryptcrawler.deviantart.com/ Started in his 30s and spent 10-12 years before he made his first money. He lived on the streets to work on his passion.
>>111467858 Yeah you tried with no prior understanding. Water color is very workable when you have a good surface to work into. The thing is that it recquires a certain level of patience that most people lack. Lots of staring at things dry, very fun medium for plein air sketches since it's so compact to take with you. And doesn't take an hour to set up (like oils)
I tried to draw for 1,5 year. Every day, few hours, doing studies and shit. During that time i joined some online drawing rooms. When i saw people starting and getting better in just few months just drawing during their job breaks i gave up. You either can or can't draw.
>>111466833 Actually creativity is something that can also be learned and trained. Your personality and sensibility plays a huge role in it, but all it takes to be an artist is to be curious and to not be afraid to affirm yourself through your work.
Affirming oneself doesn't mean doing thought provoking works, but simply getting around the fact that you are yourself and that there is nothing wrong with creating what you want to create even if it's just cute girls doing cute things. Don't be afraid of doing what you like.
It's a simple as that, people put art on a pedestal but it's really not complicated. The only trick is that you yourself and your knowledge is the only fuel for your creativity. Wich means that the only way to grow as an artist is to look at tons of things to be curious and open minded enough to continuously discover new things. It will allow you to create your own universe, wich is the raw material for your imagination.
I want to learn how to draw "without lines". Before, all I drew was like a coloring book, black lines and color inside, like anime. Naturally, I want to break out of this. Where should I begin? With what should I start?
>>111468018 There are always few people here and there that are extremely talented and can start later. I tried to look for their info though and i haven't found any about when they started so it can be full of shit too. Where are you getting their bio from?
Starting young only gives you the opportunity of getting a fuckload of hours of training before you become an adult and have to get a career. Once you've got a career, it gets much harder to put a lot of hours into something else. That's all.
(There are a few caveats to this, like you can't become a professional dancer if you don't start young due to the age cap)
>>111467926 Your method of not giving a fuck won't work. You've watched too much Mahouka or Sword Art Online where someone is able to do something just because they want something whether it is to win a contest or draw pretty pictures (your case). >>111466833 is a good mix of info, experience, and advice about how you don't know if you are an artist until you try to acquire skills in using your art tools and training/using your art sense. At some point, you realize if you can create pretty pictures or not.
>>111467997 Talent is overrated. Im an animation student and before that I've done lots of prep and art schools (Im quite lazy so there has been a lot of dicking around). All the "talented" people that I've met share that tendency to be able to focus strongly on working. Simple as that.
I've seen a piss-poor guy becoming somewhat decent in the span of a year, the dude was able to make around +150 sheets or character/layout/backgrounds research per month while some people where struggling to make 20 of them. Another one I know never went to an art school but is even better than me simply because she does around 3 digital illustrations per week on top of her usual drawings. Another one work on autism mode for days on a single things until she mastered it.
The only thing "talented" people have is guts and hard work. You only need to stop being lazy and start to work (wich means actually searching for ways to improve yourself, not just blindly practising without knowing what you're doing wrong).
>>111468156 >"without lines" Anon, it's normal if not standard to sketch things out before painting, even if you are going for 3D realism. Otherwise, it's just stylization until you find something you like
>>111468237 Craig Mullins is sourced from posts he made back in the days on a forum called Sijun (it's stil around, you can look up his posts he posted under the name "Demonspooge" or smth.
There is a pdf flying around with all his advice posts and it's grand to read if your into art. There he explained the art center story (he went, twice - first for industrial design and then for illustration).
He's 50 now so that's the result of 3 decades worth of work.
Cryptcrawler released a video back in the day called a hostile take over (the painting is called that) It's a 10 hour demo and then there was a part of it where he showed his old stuff from 15 years ago. Very cool, you can probably find it on cgpeers.
>>111468376 That's interesting, he has done interviews where that isn't mentioned. Somethings up
I think if people are in need of motivation to draw just let your dick guide you to draw feet
A good way to do this is to observe something (the best are live drawing sessions) and close one eye, and to keep the second one almost completely closed. Oh and creating a unique light source is also important, work during the day with a single window opened or use a small lamp inside a dark room so that you only have one strong source of light. At this point the object will only appear blurry and the shadows will be more pronounced. What you're seeing is basically a simplified view of the object, keep your eye almost closed and start drawing the outline of the object and the outline of the shadow.
Then you can gradually start opening your eyes to get more details without losing the overall shape.
This way you will start thinking in terms of "shape", "lighting" and "outlines", wich is what painting relies on in order to be understandable without lines.
You can also observe pieces of works that you like with this technique. You'll usually see that a lot of them can be easily simplified into large masses of lights and shadows.
>>111468417 Art is a trade most people pick up in college, yeah you brain peaks at 21 with pure processing power, but it isn't as fluid as a childbrain, and honestly you need the maturity of an adult to really advance reliably in art.
you guys are so depressing. where does talent even come from? How in the world did a preconceived ability to do a skill already be in someones brain without them actually practicing and learning the skill before hand? I feel like it's just harder for some people because they don't want to learn it as bad as others do.
>>111468713 Some people are going to have a better visual spacial IQ and find it easier to represent 3d shapes in 2d just because of how their brains are wired.
Other may excel in atmosphere or color theory with just how their brains work. But anyone should be able to learn to draw well enough, and from their they can find what their niche talent within the hobby.
Some people can grasp some concepts quicker than others but ultimately what matters is how much mileage you put in to your craft, you don't see the mountains upon mountains of shit and the years upon years of practice that it took for a good artist to get where they are. If you want to become a good artist then you have to stop comparing yourself to others as everyone learns, applies and progresses differently.
>>111468930 It's a lot easier said than done, though. Ever since I was 9, I've been wanting to be an artist, voice actor, musician, writer, programmer, anything. To this day I have improved little to none at all at anything.
I get a little irritated whenever I see people say ">Westerner", but recently for most of this morning I'm starting to wonder if that's true. I don't really believe in talent myself, but I feel as though there's some sort of bizarro-talent thing that keeps people from being any bit good at anything. If there's one thing I'm even less sure of, it's why I bother even talking about wanting to do anything. Why am I even alive, for that matter?
>>111469224 You think those kids somehow woke up one day with the skill that it takes to draw well? They have been drawing for much longer than you have, they started much earlier and like I said, you don't see the work that it took to get where they are.
I disagree, talent does exist. However talent alone is not enough, everyone who is truly good at what they has paid in sweat and effort.
The places where talent makes a difference is when people are classified by age brackets (12 and under, 14 and under, high school, etc.), when there is a limit before physical degradation sets in (sports athletes, gymnasts, etc.), or when you are speaking about the absolute limit of human abilities.
The reason they say 'meh' is because they can see a mountain of limitations and things they can't do and it humbles them.
Look at Garfield comic strips by Jim Davis. Even when there are sequential panels where they look identical, if you look closely you can see minor differences that show he drew a duplicate panel. You can say, "It's just Garfield" but ability to so precisely redraw your drawings is impressive
>>111469257 You're trying to be a jack of all trades and a master of none. If you want to truly excel at something you have to commit to it and make it a part of your life. Just as you wake up and brush your teeth in the morning you have to practice what you want to get good at as much as you can for as long as you can.
>>111469273 There is no easy way to learn how to draw, stop trying to self validate and start looking at what it's gonna take to get where you want to be.
>>111469394 >high school I can guarantee you know fuck all about art and it will seem absolutely silly later on down the line. You're blaming something else for your lack of progress. If you want to get good at drawing then you will hunker down and you will find a way rather than just say it can't be helped.
>>111469224 I study at art school. And I know one "talented" guy. But he's not talented, he's just wired differently. When we get an assignment, most of us doing it exactly like we're told. Some of us can't even do that("ah, good enough"). What he does? He always tries to do it in some new way, and always with extra effort. When we have spare time we waste it on non-art things. At best, we read info on art or sketch stuff just to kill time. What he does? He learns and practices, every single day. "This 3dmax thing is fun, I'll learn it." Two days later he's already knows more than we learned in a year. "I saw this "zbrush" thing yesterday, think I'll try it out". One week later he's sculpting better than teachers. "I think for an assignment I'll do thins 2 meter tower out of fiber glass." And he does, curved one, with LED and neon lights, panted, with a motor inside that spins it. Essentially, he's just not lazy. When he has the slightest desire to do something he does that. No second thoughts, no doubt, no concerns about time. And when other people say "it's good enough", he goes extra mile to make it exactly as he wanted it to be. I guess all "talented" people are like that.
>>111469540 >If you want to truly excel at something you have to commit to it I'm not sure what if I can really choose one thing I want to do for most of my life. Maybe I just can't commit to things, and that's why I've been juggling things. Right now the thing I want to do is voice acting, and I've been wanting to do that ever since I heard about it, because it's the only way where I can be some loud goofball or whatever and the only focus is my ability, not the fact that something unusual came out of my mouth.
When I mentioned the westerner thing, it was specifically about voice acting. I'm getting some notions in my head right now that if I were born in Japan or whatever, I'd probably be a lot better at it than I am right now. However, the feeling hasn't stopped me yet, but considering that I'm not some guy yelling in moonspeak, who would want me even if I were a professional?
>>111469730 Whatever it is you want to do, set a goal. Look 3-5 years down the line and think of where you wanna be then find out what it's gonna take to get there. Keep that goal in mind, practice every day and just realize that time spent doing wasteful things is time spent not working towards your goal.
In many cases yes, but I've also been to panels where an artist drew a panel in a few min, then quickly redrew the scene in a panel next to it. Even the shading looked indistinguishable at first glance.
If you want to do voice acting then really work at it. Join community theater, audition to be a deejay, start putting yourself out there. Do readings and post them on Youtube.
Impressions and characters is going to be part of it, learn a few impressions and reenact anime scenes as a different character or with a minor variation, i.e. redub a scene in FMA as Ed with a British accent.
>>111469684 Just keep at it man, send the guys a message asking for help artists are much more approachable than you might think, they're just busy.
>>111469762 Relevant: >>111466075 http://forums.permanoobs.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50 Albeit Tehmehs older sketchbook (from the very beginning) is bits more impressive, but then you'd have to slog through a lot of pages full of praise eh. >>111466159 http://forums.permanoobs.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=685 This guy is also just 19 so fuck him
Permanoobs isn't old enough to really contain those mega success stories like conceptart.org
Now stop making excuses and follow your dreams >>111469956 >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjbPszSt5Pc That's cool, I like how he changes his posture for the different characters. Looks like he really gets into it
>>111469956 Probably the easiest and first thing to do is to find existing stuff, apply my own voice and on the internet. I'd imagine it'd be tough to filter out the good criticism from the bad if I do anything related to anime, since I'd be compared to the original VAs as much as I'd be given criticism for my own ability.
Right now I haven't been able to get a solid impression or accent done yet, most of my time related to voice acting spent is just discussing things about things like language, sounds, etc. with other people on the internet. I don't think anyone wants to hear or see a beginner or amateur, unless there's some sort of group or general or something meant for people who aren't professional yet, which is why I usually keep mum about things except to the people I've already been talking to about this subject.
Considering that /a/ has something like "/a/ sings" and daily Japanese theads, I've been wondering why there hasn't been anything like "/a/ makes fandub/gag dub" threads.
Well that's the point, impressions are about mimicking the sound and mannerisms of a character.
Your voice is an instrument. You can't just talk about using it, you need to actually practice using it. Sit down in front of your computer and record yourself reading a children's story book or whatever. Volunteer to do readings at hospitals, libraries or nursing homes.
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