I've always wondered how Japan came to produce the greatest animation, comics, etc; compared to every other country. Especially for such a small place, which has only been relatively modern since the last 100 or so years. Is there some kind of sociopolitical aspect that I'm unaware of? Please enlighten me /a/.
posting this question here because I don't want to start a thread, but
Isn't it plausible that Kira could have had a google alert for video streams and blog posts that mentioned "Kira/Heartattack News"?
Comics are bigger in Japan because they spend a lot of their time on trains. It is just a lot more convenient to have hobbies that can be done on the train there. Anime is pretty much dogshit.
America nuked their domestic comics industry by trying to make them all family friendly at some point in the 20th century. There was a vibrant comics scene pre-ban, then they censored everything and it died. That's basically it.
>I've always wondered how Japan came to produce the greatest animation, comics, etc; compared to every other country.
It doesn't, it just produces more of it.
The 11's are more superficial so the idea of representing people with drawings seems more acceptable to them. The superficiality is the flipside of the focus on aesthetics.
>implying 98% of manga can even hold a candle to stuff like The Sandman
>Anime is pretty much dogshit
This. They just let go of the attention span of an intelligent human being a little earlier than the rest of us idiots.
>style is distinct, despite variety
>foreign audiences differentiate anime from other animation industries
>has a Disney-tier figurehead in Miyazaki, other countries like France do not
>most of what other countries have to offer simply flies under the radar, at least internationally
Because our comics don't pander to sexually frustrated virgins.
I have a sneaking suspicion that all japanese people are at least slightly autistic
the good kind of autism that doesn't actually detract from your intelligence at all (in some cases even improving it) but makes it so they often form unusual dedication to, or can find meaning and happiness in, arbitrary things
Maybe (Barring some shit like GTO) Japs have the ball to end their comic. American comic has numerous reboot, spinoff, new writer/artis, to the point that some shit like batman/superman is still being produced nowadays. They have really overstayed their welcome. Of course there are some manga that are like this too, but the propotion is way smaller. Many anon hates it when their favorite manga are cancelled by jump/others but this keep shit relatively fresh.
IIRC in Japan the mangaka have some copyright on their work. In the state, DC/Marvel and other comic book companies held full or most right, thats why they can keep rebooting and assigning new writers/artist.
The same shit could possibly happens to Japan when they sign the TPP. Thanks Obama.
It's still shit, it just happens that more of it panders to adults (or manchildren at the very least) than in the rest of the world. Plus they don't drag shit on and on to milk the cash cow dry like the rest of the world does, hence us still clamoring for Haruhi S3 rather than S27 where they're all in their thirties or something by that point and meeting up in the two hours of free time they get per week out of the soul-draining Japanese work schedule.
Because their movie industry is shit and they don't have the budget or the workforce to produce big live action movies with decent CG, explosions, special effects and the like. So they stuck with anime and it grew.
As for manga, this anon pretty much answered it.>>112268307
It doesn't help that Japan's a very pressuring, constricted, expensive and depressing place to live either.
>Have you ever read Detective Conan?
I'm still reading Naruto and Bleach even though they're shit because I have to finish everything. I feel sorry for the people that started Detective Conan and have the same habit.
I guess it's a combination of the isolation of being an island nation and the radiation.
I mean look at the British, those fucks are weird as fuck.
I believe he's talking about bullshit copyright laws ushered in by those companies, and the way they destroy competition in the animation/comic industry and monopolize everything
I also blame cable networks for doing similarly retarded and greedy shit
basically art was ruined by jews
no wonder hitler wanted to steal all that art from them
Read up on Seduction of the Innocent and the Comics Code. Anything interesting in American comics died with EC. They moved away from it eventually, but the damage had been done.
I've heard there are good Franco-Belgian comics, but I can't read frogspeak and nothing but Asterix and the Smurfs gets translated.
japanese manga, visual novels and light novels are made by the common idiot, and by dozens of them.
meanwhile in the west the entertainment industry is so professional and capitalistic that it pretty much went to shit, because they can't try new stuff in fear of failing and losing shitloads of money
japan entertainment industry is literally communism
Being trapped on an island and knowing that everyone not on the island hates you will drive you insane.
That's why both Britain and Japan are full of quirky shit that nobody understands. And they both share habits like driving on the left hand side of the road, so that you could attack the person coming the opposite way with your strong hand, should you need to.
Well for one thing creators can have their shows air to the end unlike murrica. As others have said the setting really helps with interest. We don't have many trains in murrica while in japan it's far more common so they have some time to casually read manga. Mobile games and social media are a more popular way of spending time here, although mobile games are also popular in japan for similar reasons. Also I'd say it's up to companies too. Here we mostly have the big 2 and indie, while in japan there's tons of magazines publishing many manga weekly and monthly. And while there may be many who wish to be animators currently you're limited to the web or a few major channels, and let's just say those channels prefer the highest ratings over varied and quality content.
So the main problem is that in the west the industry is centralized in few people who have had success driving it for a long time and through many things don't allow new blood that deviates from their own vision to push the industry forward meanwhile in Japan the competition is not as harsh and has been more accepting of new and different ideas which keep it fresh?
I think another important fact is that Japan pretty much doesn't give a fuck besides censorship on the content of manga and its fans but in the west comic fans have always been stigmatized and censorship is in the air, making it harder to invest in or pursue a career in said industry.
>And they both share habits like driving on the left hand side of the road, so that you could attack the person coming the opposite way with your strong hand, should you need to.
You got that backwards though. Superficiality comes in the form of showing disgusting meatbags as "true" representations for the purity that is fiction, thinking everything third-dimensional (as in: actual actors or people) can give it credit.
>Especially for such a small place
After the United States Japan actually has the largest population of all developed countries by far. That's also why they're still economy #3 in the world even though they pretty much stagnated for two decades.
>greatest animation, comics
Calvin & Hobbes alone beats 99.9% of Japanese fiction.
For me it just comes down to a matter of demographics and animation.
Animation in the west seems to be targeted at actual children instead of fat autistic losers, so it's easier for us to like anime since we're all fat autistic losers.
Also 3D sucks dick, and for whatever reason everything from the western hemispheres uses it so everything looks like garbage.
>Animation in the west seems to be targeted at actual children instead of fat autistic losers,
It's the same in Japan, the mainstream society still recognizes anime as shit for social rejects and losers.
Their continued isolationism created a very different breed of content compared to the one consumed in most of the western world while also being of a refinement only a industry on a very developed country could achieve, people from overseas are attracted to that difference of something they see as strange or alien and can't normally experiment on their habitual culture.
Saying Japan makes the best cartoons and manga is not being a weeaboo. It is just telling the truth. There are plenty of Chinese people that really dislike Japan but that agree with that.
Every country has areas where they are strong at.
Germans are good at making cars, beer, etc
French are good with wine.
Americans are the best in economics.
Swedes are good in being politically correct.
And so on.
The west had very, very tight censorship guidelines for their comic books for a very long time.
I;m talking shit like you weren't allowed to show police offers being subject to violence. You weren't allowed to depict crime of any fashion (even the bad guys), the good guys HAD to be representatives of the state and embody certain social moral standards, etc.
The manga industry has been able to grow in its own creatively diverse direction because it;s been subject to different standards of censorship than in the west, where draconian moral guidelines basically stagnated the industry for 50 years.
It panders to people their who want to escape from their daily lives while most of the latter wants to make big bucks so they were eventually got stuck doing things over and over again until the cow runs out of milk
Basically yeah. EVen when the laws were still onmipresent there was a growing counterculture that went to the polar extreme. That's where you get spawnshit and edgy for the sake of edgy hypergore violence garbage (pretty much exactly the shit Tokyo Ghoul is trying to be an homage to). A lot of modern stuff just mindlessly parrots that tradition of 'lets have graphic scenes of things getting fucked up just for the hell of it' without really understanding why it was a thing in the first place, because to most modern comic writers the medium is just an outlet for the juvenile fantasies they never outgrew
It's also why even now, some 70 years later, timetraveling alternate history scifi nazis are still the most fucking overused villains in anything. You don't have to show them doing bad things to sell that they're evil because they're nazis; we already know that they're the bad guys. It's a cheap and easy way to avoid needing to show your villains being villanous or actually characterize them, and was popularized back in a time when you couldn't publish something if the bad guys acted like bad guys.
Lets not forget the fact the things that do sale have run out of ways for things to stay new, so now its just which character dies in some horrific way, only to be resurrected in a year or two, in a special edition mini-series. Or how about those awful crossovers with all the crossover spin-offs you have to buy and read to get the entire story. Or the fact that the shared universe means canon is absolutely garbage, even after they reset the universe to try and fix it.
Because they were making manga in the form of ukiyo-e since the 1600s.
>Sure they have lots of ideas rolled out but they can't end a series well at a gunpoint.
I'm pretty sure they are better at ending their cartoons/comics than Western people. Mostly because they end them, sometimes.
Yeah this is the truth. I try to think of examples of western endings and most of the shows I was watching a dozen years ago are either still ongoing, or just cancelled abruptly and disappeared without an actual 'ending'.
When they actually do try to end shit, we get endings like Lost or Battlestar Galactic, which are arguably bones-tier clusterfucks.
>I've always wondered how Japan came to censor the greatest hentai animation, hentai comics, etc; compared to every other country. Especially for such a small place, which has only been relatively modern since the last 100 or so years. Is there some kind of sociopolitical aspect that I'm unaware of? Please enlighten me /a/.
5 seasons was way too much. It started going downhill from the second season and just kept getting worse. By the end it only relied on shitty cliffhangers and cringeworthy 'epic' (I guess that was the intent) lines.
The original laws were something the imperialists cooked up because they were trying to forcefully modernize japan and stamp out the whole bushido shogunate culture, they were part of much wider cultural reforms and art censorship laws.
America actually expanded on them post-WW2, partially out of revulsion and culture shock (a country that's used to moral censorship being the norm encountering one that has tentacles in their porno) and partially out of a very deliberate attempt to westernize and modernize the country. They figured if they imposed harsher moral standards on media, those standard would trickle down to the public at large and make them more 'civilized'. It's also part of why japan's school reforms were so draconian and soulcrushing; they were pushed by america to adopt a more 'british' education system and the result was a much wider spread repression of sexuality and individualism.
When you actually go through the istory it;s not terrible surprising the japanese baby boomer generation is overrun with spineless limp-dick bureaucrats and unrepentant perverts. Nor is it surprising the youth counterculture is so off-the-rails weird and anti-productive.
It wasn't an accident. WB waited till the last minute to make the decision which forced them to modify the plot they way they did because they didn't know whether they were going to be canceled or not until it was too late to change things.
>Nor is it surprising the youth counterculture is so off-the-rails weird and anti-productive.
The harsher the conformity pressure in society, the weirder and more aggressive the counter culture is.
Counterculture tends to be fueled more by generational gaps.
The boomers were brought up with the strict and oppressive post-war conservative japanese system. As time has gone on, that system has become much lore lax; but, of course the parents bring their childhood into the home when they deal with their own kids. So the youth generations grow up under this family pressure to conform to the old ways, and as soon as they step out the house, they're free of that pressure and do as they please.
That dichotomy is what fuels the counterculture. It's rebelling against their parents and against the 'old' way of doing things as much as anything.
This is a somewhat different situation, because everyone, regardless of generation, grows up under the same oppressive conditions. It isn't parents parroting the oppression they faced and trying to project an imitation of it onto their kids, it's both parents and children being oppressed by both their government, and by the scarcity of essential subsistence resources.
Basically this. Theer was a big thread over a /co/ awhile about why Anime/Manga is more popular than Comics and this >>112275325
was one of the main points w cae upt ith at the end.
It's not hard, all they had to do is write about things that aren't cape shit.
America is an amalgam of a great deal of disparate cultures and ideologies from all over the world. You have cultural enclaves that populate entire towns and cities in nooks and crannies all over the country that are almost entirely 2nd, 3rd and so on generation immigrants from various european cultures.
Just because most americans are white doesn't mean that they're all the same flavour of white. There's large conformity pressure all over the place, and the fact that it isn't institutionalized is part of what fosters the growth of countercultures. Countercultures then attract people with a weak sense of cultural identity (such as 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants) to it. Just because you were raised in a middle class white suburb doesn't mean your best friend wasn't raised in some Serbian-run hovel in the boonies where they whipped their kids for having naughty thoughts. There's 3rd-world countries hidden all over america and your cities are such melting pots because most people escape to them as soon as they're old enough to leave the home.
Plus shit like the civil rights movement carry on a tradition today that attracts youth into counterculture movements. You may forget that, while america isn't pro-conformity as a whole, it was pro-oppression and pro-segregation until rather recently in its history.
I like anime but
Simpsons, King of the Hill, Regular Show, Adventure Time, The Boondocks, and Rick and Morty>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anime
It's because they went against the realism, or better say, the way the god, our creator, designed us visually.
Yes, they have Vagabond, jojo and others but they are not obligated to follow that way of design.
Seriously, /co/ gives you only two option:
Draw realistically if you want to make some respectfull person or deform it to make fun of it.
Japan inovated it making then deformed AND respectful and beautiful.
Also the subconscious mind when you make an unrealistic visual character is different:
While USA is "Pointing a finger and laughting", Japan is "Awwwww".
It's a clever deadpan comedy with likable characters. It's brutally honest about the culture it's parodying, but is never downright distasteful with its satire. It manages to stay true to itself core engagement across a long-running span and its episodic plots remain creative and entertaining without ever being excessively dramatic or inane.
It's basically just a really solid SoL comedy that does what it does well without ever doing something stupid to fuck it up.
I love Pixar, I think the entire studio is solid creative gold, except for
Cars and Planes, and their respective sequels. I really get the impression from Pixar that they love their work, they love animation and that their creativity is fostered, at least somewhat.
Dreamworks on the other hand, feels to me like they have a big overbearing executive peering at their creative efforts and saying, "no, no. This is too imaginative. It needs to APPEAL."
As for solely Japanese media, some of it's good, some of it's bad, just like anywhere else. Although I will admit there seems to be some years where there's a dry spell of new material, for example the influx of teenage high school dramas and moeshit a few years ago. It varies, just like with Pixar and Dreamworks in the west.
>Dreamworks on the other hand, feels to me like they have a big overbearing executive peering at their creative efforts and saying, "no, no. This is too imaginative. It needs to APPEAL."
Yeah, somebody hasn't seen Kung Fu Panda 2, and Dragons 2. Better than anything Pixar has done since TS 3
I've never heard of a school allowing someone to simply not participate in the pledge of allegiance. If you abstain you'll get sent of to a guidance counselor or the principle, and if the problem doesn't solve itself you'll eventually be suspended and have your parents involved in your lack of patriotism.
Schools take that institutional shit very seriously.
Children believe what they're told and do what they're told. It's an evolved trait. The ones that said "fuck you, I'ma touching the snake" didn't reproduce.
Why d'you think people believe in ridiculous shit like Christianity or Mormonism?
You're full of shit. There was a supreme court case about this very issue, and the supreme court sided with the student. The only people who try to enforce anything are uninformed teachers, and even then, when the student refuses there's nothing they can do to them.
Dragons 2 was an exercise in ticking the boxes.
3D-bait podrace? Check.
Musical interlude? Check.
Poignant funereal moment? Check.
Victory through power of friendship? Check.
That's not to say it's shit, but see it for what it is. It's still pandering, even when it's pandering to you.
Kung Fu Panda was the shit though
>Why d'you think people believe in ridiculous shit like Christianity or Mormonism?
I'm not even religious, and yet I'm vicariously embarrassed by this fedora tier shit.
Mormonism is undefendably retarded though.
Oh, we do, but as I said, there's nothing they can do to enforce it.
Japan has been the land of art since a long time ago
Even Gogh became a weeb
The supreme court says otherwise.
That said, the supreme court says you have the right not to be raped, mugged and murdered.
And it doesn't say you have the right to abstain from the pledge and not be ostracised. That's one of the great things about free speech.
Uninformed teachers make up the entire hierarchy of the school system and you;re not going to find many students who can afford to dispute their penalties in a court of law.
Sure, it the case ever reaches a court, they'd have the high ground without issue, but courts are expensive, and no teacher is going to put up with you being a dirty pinko commie unless you're willing to shell out the legal costs and take them to court over it. Even if you do, you'll have to be lucky and hope your case ends up o the table of a liberal judge, because a conservative one will just toss the case right out and not give you the time of day.
Which would mean that uninformed teachers are free to make you their bitch-boy until you swear your loyalty to dead white people like everyone else!
>Germans are good at making cars
If you're willing to spend $80K or more, sure.
>good with economics
Which is why our entire economy since the 50's has been focused on short-term profit and gain rather than long-term business sense.
Which is also why our government "regulations" are retarded or counter-productive.
On topic: It's because there's a lot of competition and variety. American media has stagnated since the "muh feelings" groups started in. People bitching about "muh morals" made the few large media companies risk-averse and made the smaller ones go out of business.
Just because stupid people say something, doesn't mean it's wrong.
Religions say things that are, objectively, false. They're testably incorrect about matters of fact. And people will believe these non-facts, because someone told them, when they young, that they were true.
It's hardly coincidence that children of Christians don't believe in Hinduism, and children of Muslim parents don't believe in Judaism.
>Oh, we do, but as I said, there's nothing they can do to enforce it.
Other than, you know, them sending you to the guidance counselor or principle, and getting your parents involved because you don't love the greatest god loving country in the world.
That, and of course they can make the rest of your school year shitty because they're in charge of grading your work.
Yeah, again, you're full of shit, I was going to school fairly recently, and it was nothing like you're describing. Teachers might at most, say something to you, but they don't do anything past that.
I think you can get one for less.
>Which is why our entire economy since the 50's has been focused on short-term profit and gain rather than long-term business sense.
This is because of the housing bubble from post-war america, the thing is, the logic back then wasn't awful, but it was focused more on doing that used to work rather than what could work, because investors were scared of what would happen if the economy went into recession (which had already happened without them realizing it).
>Which is also why our government "regulations" are retarded or counter-productive.
You're blaming the tool instead of the worker. Companies get bought out by bigger companies and people pay eachother off to get bills and regulations passed that work n the short term, because they want to bail out asap if things become unfixable. Blame the politicians, not the regulations.
I don't even like how the big budget 3D films look. Sure it's impressive, but it just lacks the 'spirit' 2D animation has. Or I guess I should say hand-drawn 2D animation, since now it's all flash and that looks like crap in addition to lacking a human touch. Not really a fan of live action either, especially if it requires tons of CG. Will hand-drawn animation ever make a comeback in the industries or is it all downhill from here?
I fear it's all downhill.
3DCG is finally getting to the point where it's bearable, Frozen didn't look bad, but still, it just looks awkward.
If you're trying to make something realistic and 3d, just do live action.
All I want is for the American animation industry to attempt to match Japan's. I want cartoon "seasons" here, I want the West to create its own Evangelion in terms of changing the perceptions of the medium so it's not all dumb as shit comedy or superhero tie-ins meant to sell action figures. The budgets for shows like American Dad are several times higher than the vast majority of anime, and yet it's nothing more than obnoxious comedy. Until America loses the mindset that "cartoons are for kids", American animation will never match what anime has accomplished, even if just looking at anime since the 90s and not its entire history.
As for manga versus comics, manga is, again, vastly superior due in large part to its variety. But the biggest reason for its superiority is that it is 99% of the time a single author or group of authors writing the entire work. Same for the artist. Manga is many times better than American comics as a storytelling medium because it is much more consistent in both art and writing, and, unlike the big American comics franchises, stories actually end and new ones are created. Super Man is over 100 years old and it's never going to fucking end, attempting to make any sense of its continuity is absurd because so many different writers have touched the property. Most big American comics deal with this issue.
tl;dr, the Japanese do it better on an industry level and have a better understanding of the mediums than America does
Big anime directors seem to get a shitton more respect and autonomy compared to their western counterparts. Go look at what timm and dini had to go through to get return of the joker through and you'll get an idea on why western animation has no fucking balls
Didn't Japan pretty much constantly grant Koreans citizenship as long as they had artistic talent? They were doing that for a good 600 years or so. Even during war against Korea and the modern imperial occupation.
Not to mention artisans was one of the highest classes in Japanese life for a thousand years.
Their culture has bred artists in ways not many other cultures do.
>Is there some kind of sociopolitical aspect that I'm unaware of? Please enlighten me /a/.
mangas come in tankabons and those are cheap popular and give you a lot of bang for your buck
i want to remark the word POPULAR mangas are discussed by a large population
something their west counterpart wouldn't even dream of
>5 seasons was way too much. It started going downhill from the second season and just kept getting worse. By the end it only relied on shitty cliffhangers and cringeworthy 'epic' (I guess that was the intent) lines.
I'm glad to see someone has the same opinion as me on this. Everyone else seems to think the latter half of the show was great, but it was just awful.
A huge part of that is manga deal with subjects that your average every day person can relate to or get something out of, whereas in America comics are perceived as something for children and neckbeards because they're all about guys in capes who wear their underwear over their tights. You would never see a comic book about tennis or something here, or anything even remotely resembling a good shoujo/josei, and have it be a success just due to the stigma against it. Most people who go see the superhero movies in theatres that have become such a craze are either going with their kids, doing it out of nostalgia, or liking them ironically (because wearing thick-rimmed glasses and watching super hero movies is quirky and "lol so nerdy xD").
It was great until Skyler found out. Feminists say it was empowering and yadda yadda, but she was a wet napkin in the show and watered down the fun parts. Skyer episodes made the second half unbearable.
Basically Disney and comics changed copyright law in America to basically make it forever minus a day, to keep certain things from falling into the public domain (Old DC heroes works, and the earliest Mickey Mouse shorts.) Basically it was changed so Disney could control its the earliest shit. Partly because it wanted those sweet Steamboat Willie golds, but also to keep Plane Crazy from ever seeing the light of day again.
Marvel is just another company milking old franchises, though. And Star Wars itself is an old franchise.
It will take nothing short of a revolution for American animation/comics to be good.
To start with, I want Superman and Batman to legitimately end. I want the characters to cease appearing in new works. They need to make new works for a new era.
You forgot the part where Walt Disney himself was so distraught over losing the rights over Oswald that he wanted to keep Mickey forever.
They lobby to change the laws every time the copyright is about to expire. It's what, creator's death + 75 years now?
On one hand, copyright laws were written in respect to mechanical inventions, in order to prevent one inventor/company from monopolizing a product. And thus weren't really tailored to intellectual property.
On the other, it's pretty bullshit that one company can hold the copyright to a character that has become a cultural icon itself.
Disney is taking a page from EA by buying Marvel and Star Wars; buy beloved IP's, make mediocre iterations of them, when people eventually get sick of the poor quality versions, kill them.
That was part of it, but my main issue with it was that they tried to rope you along with teases, cliffhangers, and suspense instead of trying to put together a better narrative. Plus, it became really, really clear that they hadn't thought the story through at all around the end of the second season when the plane crash happens. The rest of the show just felt like it was meandering to some nonspecific destination. Occasionally, there are some nice moments post season 2, but you have to wade through a ton of melodrama and filler just to get to them. As a whole, the show really wasn't that good.
Pretty much.Though Disney has used other ways to get around it anyways, and it's not Mickey that's copyrighted (that would be trademark, which is until they let it lapse, or they stop defending it), it's the afformentioned shorts. Steamboat Willie is pretty much guaranteed on any classics collection, while Plane Crazy makes Mickey look completely different, as in villain different.
One More Day and The Prequels were pre buyout anon.
That depends on what you mean by flowing. The movies are making a ton of money, but by the end of the decade superhero movies will have overstayed their welcome and they won't bring in the money they do now. Their comics fucking suck as of now as well.
That exactly. The Japanese placed an extremely high emphasis on actual artistic creators. A lot of their art in feudal eras were heavily influenced by Korean artists who studied Chinese arts. They didn't just want the art themselves, but the talent behind them.
The answer if very simple. America's talent goes into live action because we have they money for it.
Japan's talent goes into anime because that's where their money is.
Ever wonder why most english dubs suck ass? It's because people in America want to be real actors, not idols/seiyuu, like their Japanese counterparts.
But a real actor can act better than a seiyu you fucking retard. The problem with dubs is that the actors have no talent. Or do you expect blockbuster actors to dub anime for peanuts?
A lot of Japanese are delusional to think their culture wasn't heavily influenced by China through Korea. It's just the facts. They just made it their own in the process. Like almost all their modern culture is European and American in origin.
"The Ten Cent Plague" is cheap demagoguery and revisionism that greatly overinflates the impact of the largely mythic "Great Comic Book Scare". It can be easily contridicted by even 'Wiki'd It historians'.
The real death of creativity in the West was caused by draconian copyright laws, and insane publishing costs. All thanks to oligopoly racketeering and publishers guilds.
A similar cancer occured in Hollywood with the Studio System and The Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers.
'Tis truly a dark time when some of the most reliably good CG animation is has been done by a game company.
This sounds like it was written by someone who expected japanese normies to be like american nerds everywhere he went
It's not like he said "the otaku culture isn't what I thought it was!" it's still there but that pic doesn't talk about anything other than how much he hates all the normal people
Yeah, a lot of that picture reminds me of /a/. While we have Gaia as the example of weebs, we have /a/ on the other end of the spectrum.
Knowing close to nothing about the country (and what they know is taken from BBC and Vice "documentaries"), but in a desperate attempt to not seem like weebs people pretend to hate it.
I'm inclined to agree when I remember how great the 90s was for American animation (height of the Disney renaissance; all the WB TV animation with great writing like Animaniacs, Pinky & the Brain, fucking Batman TAS etc.; the birth of Cartoon Network and Dexter's Lab, Powerpuff Girls, Johnny Bravo, etc.), but even then, nothing that came out of that period touches Eva, Bebop, or GitS in terms of artistic achievement, and the Ghibli films of the period are pretty close to on par with the Disney films.
I'd say the only time American animation was better than anime was during the Looney Tunes/Silly Symphonies era, maybe. And that's a big maybe. Ever since the 80s though, anime has been far superior.
The workman and the artist are different.
The workman only makes ordered goods.
The workman does not make a new thing.
The artist in old Japan is as follows.
Tougei ka.(Not toukou)
They are the designers and producers.
They made the culture of Japan.
>I've always wondered how Japan came to produce the greatest animation, comics
greatest in what sense? they just had more tradition of drawing cartoons than the west
most of the stories are just re-use plots over and over, there's almost no originality
I think is more like the 1000 monkeys, put 1000 anime a years and you'll get 1 or 2 good
I'm halfway through the 7th season of Next Generation.
Now I just need to decide whether I'll pick up Deep Space 9 or Voyager first.
Anime thrived because Japan had a strong economy, manga/anime had more latitudes of distribution, and the author was properly compensated for successful work. Also, lax censorship laws, and lack of active soccor moms to shut things down.
I laugh at anyone that says FCC hasn't murdered the cartoon scene. A few of their rulings were catastrophic to the industry. Even cable networks that can get away with more don't do so because they are afraid of the FCC hammer.
Why are western comicbook artists so fucking shit?
The drawings don't really convey anything not the slightest emotion, its like every panel is a self contained illustration, so mind numbingly boring
>I've always wondered how Japan came to produce the greatest animation, comics
Wrong you fucking idiot.
Tintin is way better than any manga. Classic disney is way better than any anime.
Because they're a country focused pretty much solely on imagination and creativity and neither of those things are looked down upon as juvenile like in other countries who care more about the quality of their art then it's creativeness so to speak.
Japanese literature is garbage, their film is incredibly lacking compared even just to other asian countries like South Korea, and their television is dominated by variety shows and kid/teen stuff like anime. It should make sense then that they dominate comics and animation where creativity is hailed as king and looks > substance. You don't have to look further than /a/ or /co/ for evidence of that, where KyoAni are hailed as king and capeshit/shounen are the most talked about comics
>Yeah they pander to white supremacists instead
Nigga is you serious
Just look at East Asian history since 1840. Japan, Korea, Taiwan all goes through these stages.
Autocratic government > Drastic economic reform > Export based prosperity > Huge educated next generation grown up > Export cultural influence
Like, 50 years later, people will be literally watching Chinese cartoon and pop songs videos.
Gurren Lagann, not so good.
Berserk, shitty anime and even worse manga.
FLCL, boring, unfunny, LOL SO RANDUM XD shit.
Kaiji, atrocious character design and completely contrived plot.
Serial Experiments Lain? more like Serial Experiments LAME shitsux
BLAME! If I wanted buildings and walking, I'd go outside
GTO? More like GTFO.
Bartender? More like BOREtender
Strike Witches, If i wanted to watch fanservice without plot, i would watch hentai.
Legend of the Gaylactating Homosexuals
Victorian Romance Emma. Otaku-pandering maid fanservice bullshit.
Seirei no Moribito, if I wanted sleeping aid I'd take ambien.
Vinland Saga, shitty manga and even worse anime. 2 episodes in and I fell asleep.
Jojo's Bizarre Gayventure
BLAME!?, More like LAME shitsux
Grave of the Fireflies? If I wanted to watch a whiny cunt and his little sister fuck around I'd go to Chuck E. Cheese.
Golden Boy? If I wanted to see a genius get horny, I'd videotape myself masturbating.
Mononoke, if I wanted to see a crossdressing, homosexual pothead wearing make-up, I'd move to Brazil.
Claymore, looks like a dick, strong beginning and middle but a cheesy ending.
Mushishi? More like MushiSHIT
Vagabond, one episode in and I fell asleep
Ghost in the Shell, pretentious shit with walls of text. I'd rather watch Code Geass than this piece of shit.
Cowboy Bebop, Shitty ripoff of Trigun
I've always thought it strange how uninspired comics or "graphic novels" are. It's nice that they're often in full color but they're all about super heroes, or grim-dark bullshit.
It's a great storytelling medium but no one makes the attempt.
I think Scott Pilgrim has been the only thing I've enjoyed when it comes to western stuff.
>It's a combination of them being the only first world country not completely influenced by western morals
LOL Before Christian missionaries came to Japan, Homosexuality was perfectly acceptable.
>Homosexuality was perfectly acceptable.
in a way
they still had a code about it , where once a man picked a male lover he was expected to be absolutely loyal to him , well he could still get a wife and sire children but another man was completely out of the question.
99.9 of the comicbook come down to :
>Character are introduced
>They get a mission
>They start doing it and meet the villain
>They don't use their powers for no reason till near the end
>They actually use their powers near the end and beat/resolve the villain/problem
There is nothing more boring that super heroes fights
I'll post this here since there's not real Anime discussion:
Where can I download movies that have just recently been released in Nippoland? It's not on any western sites.
If anything the west is Quantity over quality.
And by west I mean America.
I mean look at Cars, Planes, Grown Ups, Shitty flash cartoons, shitty movies, shitty cg, and so on.
Not to mention that you can't really compare manga to comics due to how they're both made.
The stupidity behind the west is how stupid shit like the "Flash Attosecond" image came to be.
The west doesn't regard animation and comic as serious media to deliver something. Because no genius such as Tezuka and Miyazaki appeared since Disney. Without them, anime and manga wouldn't be so dominant in Japan, either.
No, I can confirm they were not.
Because for some reason everytime I decide to watch adult swim, it is always the early episodes of Fanily Guy that are airing.
Just like how every time I watch Adult Swim, it's always the same episode of GiTS that is airing.
Family guy was always shit.
The majority of Americans have terrible taste in humor.
>The majority of Americans have terrible taste in humor.
Different people have different taste, especially from different culture. Although with so little shit nowadays, most of them will just anything that can make them giggle.
>cowboy Bebop, shity ripoff of trigun
Could it be that America is actually responsible for the rise of Otaku culture in Japan by funding and supporting videogames and anime?
Consider this, the Japanese are a culture that have proved themselves fanatical during wartime.
Could the whole anime culture be funded to make sure the Jap youth are useless virgins as means of controlling them after WW2?
Are you American? I think that's part of it, though I don't think it's so important with Japanese SoL.
I do kind of get it but it doesn't appeal to, there is something I find un-relatable about it yet when I watch a series like SZS a lot of it goes over my head yet it is still something I really appreciate.
This scares the shit out of me. If Japan rearms itself whats going to stop them from eventually getting to powerful and stab the US right in the back? They still haven't gotten over Nagasaki and Hiroshima afterall. Japanese are monsters when it comes to war and don't know what mercy is.
it's where they have invested their talent.
Also, they have a unified culture which is important for the arts. The west does not because White Culture be evil
No seriously, that is an issue. The lack of a unified culture in the West is a problem
China's Tezuka actually influended Tezuka himself. Tezuka watched stuff like Princess Iron fan (First East Asian animation) by the Wan Brothers at a young age and that actually inspired him to make Japanese animation go big.
The reason why Japan is so farahead in animation today and why China is lagging so hard behind is because of Mao's cultural revolution which happened just after the Wan brothers released their masterpiece, Havoc in Heaven.
China still has a lot to do, especially with their strong censorship, but they are finally able to produce animated movies that are matching Japanese visuals.
Everyone will actually be watching Chinese Cartoons in 50 years.
>US cuts military support to Japan
>Gets swallowed between the forces of China and Russia while being nuked by ENOLA FAGGOT Mk II
>more great works than you could read in a lifetime
Yeah, I think I'll end up killing myself at the rate of grinding through all of Tezuka's works plus all the good ones of the 60's and 70's.
>mfw the biggest Tintin fan i know is a chubby Indian dude
Yeah man I see him in full KKK uniform complaining about how much the subways always stink of curry. Can barely contain that one man Aushwitz
What you're asking for is an anime where everyone is a completely unapologetic asshole to each other, all the time. Japs are physically incapable of being much more than passive aggressive, much less in an amusing way.
Because Japan fucked China over, and China fucked themselves over just after that.
If Japan didn't invade, China would probably never become a socialist state, and Mao would never be in power, which
means there would be no cultural revolution.
Japan at the time was too militaristic and barbaric to care for animation. It was much more suited for the victimized chinks with a great ancient culture to draw inspiration from. The first animated Asian feature film (Princess Iron Fan) came from China, not Japan and it was made under very hard conditions. It came out in 1941 when the war with the Japanese was in full swing.
So no, it has nothing to do with Japanese culture. It has more to do with the fact that Japan basically got nuked, and therefore became the victim.
Only victims will make animation. It's an outlet for them to speak out against any injustice.
I honestly find it quite amazing that Japan has managed to create such a big industry around something like this.
Also, how come 80s/90s OVAs have so much better animation than anime in the 2000s? I know it has something to do with Japan being in the Golden Age where the economy was on the uprise and people wanted more anime(hence the boom of OVAs) but were key animators back then actually better? Their style seems way more tight and smooth than what we see in many anime today.
Another thing: It's generally accepted and understood that anime with higher budgets have better animation and production quality. How does this work? Do the key animators get better pay and hence work more?
What wrong? you don't like China Index?
saying that Japan produces the best comics and animation is like saying that USA produces the best food
fast food tastes good, is easy and adictive but it's not real food just like anime is not real culture
I think american animations and comics are also great and they are not inferior to those of Japan.
But american animations are created for children.
So if you compare both in terms of adult, Japan should win for there is no opponent in america and western countries.
>no animation remotely comes close to what Japan puts out these days.
How about you refute my point then instead of being a retard about it? Barely anyone does traditional animation at all these days. Disney fired all their animators and Japan is the only country which has an industry built on hand-drawn animation.
Disney is all 3D now, don't talk about stuff you don't know anything about kiddo.
I guess it means you lost the argument then.
I don't even know what the argument was I just came in to say those shows are shit.
I have a very hard time believing that china will become the forefront of animation in the next 50 years. Their censorship is outrageous and most likely not going to change and they have a current history of copying things artistically from other countries. Its sad that they could have been pioneers in animation if it weren't for Mao's cultural revolution and even more sad at how destructive the cultural revolution fucked up china and its people. However, I do see china doing a lot of the CGI grunt work along with India in the future while the creative minds from Japan , America and other first world countries produce and make the stories for the many forms of media in the future.
>They still haven't gotten over Nagasaki and Hiroshima afterall
Yeah having two of their cities nuked tends to leave a bitter taste.
Be thankful your own horrendous country hasn't been nuked, USAs ego wouldn't be able to cope and we'd end up losing most of the world to nuclear warfare.
He's right on the ego part you know.
Back when the second Irak war started and France was the only country in the western world to point out it was a criminal and useless move, they went out of their way to launch the full force of the Bloomgoldbergstein Hollywood propaganda machine against them and turm them into the cheese eating surrender monkey they're known as today, simply because they didn't like being called out on their shit. You can see today how well that war went by the way.
oppression lots and lots of oppression
>I've always wondered how Japan came to produce the greatest animation, comics, etc; compared to every other country. Especially for such a small place, which has only been relatively modern since the last 100 or so years. Is there some kind of sociopolitical aspect that I'm unaware of? Please enlighten me /a/.
Judging from all these posts, I don't think everyone here knows the answer. For starter, nobody pulls a statistics or a citation from an academic book, and nobody tries to form a coherent argument. It's all armchair and wild guesses. No, I don't know either. I'm just disappointed by you, /a/.
Is there a more detestable fanbase? Sure their comic is good but they hype it up to the heavens and beyond.
>Is there some kind of sociopolitical aspect that I'm unaware of?
That too, you have to keep busy all these 130 millions, so they wont start thinking. That's why they create most of the media they consume. Media and Education standards are the main tools that help to create desired outlook. Note that anime is especially popular between teenagers and kids, the most vulnerable to ideological influence social group.
This media machine promotes nationalistic values, so most Japanese don't care about international politics, history of other countries and foreign languages unless it affects their life directly.
We also know about their office life mentality and paid education. It's hard to get to the good school/university and climb social ladder at their kaisha.
Because of these aspects all those NEET are born. They have this SHIT TON of media they can waste their time on, and live on pensions and allowances of their parents. Kinda natural selection in a narrow place. They HAVE to make people live like that because they have no alternative to capitalistic ideology.
And because of the Internet, we (gaijins) got access to that media machine. We just satisfy our media needs with anime an manga, because they have a shit ton of it and create new media-food faster than anyone else. It's not any mastermind that tries to rule over the world with all that shit we eat and discuss every day.
Also ecchi and jav popularizes anonizm so they won't breed too much.
Imagine if they start making anime based on recognized around the world literature instead of their shitty manga and ranobes, written by young perverts and otakus.
I suspected it was that, but I asked just to make sure.
Manga and LNs are just another medium to tell a story. They are not better than normal books, just like a cinema movie isn't necesseraly better than a TV Movie.
>And they both share habits like driving on the left hand side of the road, so that you could attack the person coming the opposite way with your strong hand, should you need to.
Harro, /co/ here. I'd argue a lot of the problem in western comics revolves around a handful of issues.
Another anon >>112281994 kindly brought up the copyright issue, so I'll leave that one out. A major problem for independent artists in the current publishing model is the necessity to be tied into a major publisher - and in doing so, lose almost all creative control over your work. Publishers might let you stay edgy and relevant for a year or two to boost sales, but by the end of it your hero will be mainstreamed and your scripts will be washed for political correctness. If you try to publish independently, you run into huge throughput problems in which even if your comic becomes successful, it is difficult to obtain due to your (laughably small) publisher not being able to keep up with demand, neutering your current and future sales.
There's also the quality issue. Some major publishers (Marvel, Marvel, Marvel) can get away with a pretty cover and absolute shit inside because fuck you, you'll buy it. However, smaller titles require much more work to remain favorably viewed by critics and audiences.
In the last regard, I think Japan absolutely did it right - by keeping only covers in color and the material (largely) in black and white, they've kept production turn times and costs down.
The western comics issue will sort itself out by either an increase in publishing groups due to a wider and larger audience, or it won't sort out and I'll see you fags at Captain America 5.
Well, they did get some of the talent behind this after WB fucked them over.
The difference between Life + 50 and Life + 70 in copyright length doesn't explain the difference between Japan and USAs comic/animation industry
Japan also have a stricter copyright law than the US when it comes to parody and fair use.
Copyright have nothing to do with the issues in the american comic industry. They killed themselves by publishing everything in same universe with same reoccurring heroes for +50 years, compare to Japan where all the series in WSJ are in their own universe which the author have control over instead of being limited by editor who tries to keep the universe somewhat consistent.
>read manga most of my life
>decide to check out more Western comics since why not
>Start with Sandman
>literal tie-ins with Batman,Constantine and other shit which gives the setting a very disjointed consistency
>read how some comics are carried for decades by changing authors like clothing
who ever thought this shit was ok
>Comparing the animation of some shitty flash show to even the most basic anime
Is this trolling or some legit, pathetic attempt at "my team is better than yours"?
>Because less censorship and not wanting to appeal to a wider audience.
The "less censorship" title has dwindle a bit in recent years. But seriously, what are you smoking? It is because they appealed to wider audiences is that anime gained ground. The biggest mistake in the 1950s was to make anime appeal to kids only. Read up on the "Dark Age of Animation".
> Also, no stupid complaints about submissive women
Because Japan's, let lone Asia's feminist movement haven't gained ground like in the "west". As well as many women got into the act of the deception of women in anime.
>or no blacks or other shit like that.
Because Japan is a homogeneous and somewhat nationalist nation with strict immigration laws and weak leftist politics. As with America, with certain wanting to be part of or want their perspectives be shown in the wider society, you're bound to have thing like this.