Name a character from the fate Franchise who could defeat Gilgamesh going all out.
>How would they win?
Play the VN or watch the anime, whichever floats your boat. I prefer posting Illyas
Avalon doesn't do shit except block a single Ea blast.
>taking plot armor as serious strength
Oh boy I guess Shirou is stronger than Dark Berserker and equal to Dark Saber then.
Karna gets raped by Enkidu, Iskandar already got shat on even after Gilgamesh let the guy waltzed right up to him, and Lancelot could only stall with Mad Enhancement. Shirou is a joke and people need to stop acting as though UBW can be deployed instantly.
EMIYA with good mana support and a "kill him at all costs" attitude.
Adult Rin with mastery over the second sorcery, but only under specific conditions.
Most people couldn't. Gilgamesh has already been stated to be the most powerful Zero/Stay Night character even with his personality flaws.
You can't take them away and expect Gil to keep juggling idiot balls when it comes to toying with his opponents.
It depends on the conditions of the battle. You put them face to face, 2 mts appart in an arena and call 3,2,1 FIGHT! and sure, the infamous "serious Gil" uses full-powered Ea and get the job done. But in a scenario where you can factor in actual strategy, field advantage and the element of surprise it's a whole other deal.
What class would these people be if they came back?
>George W. Bush
Field advantage stops mattering when your opponent can bombard you from the stratosphere with nuclear weaponry. Putting distance between Gilgamesh is a death sentence for whomever he's fighting. He's an Archer for a reason.
Of course Shirou .And basically anyone who can get close to Gil or counter his GB, this enough for dumbass king.
Shirou needed Rin and Archer to support him so he could cast UBW on a Gilgamesh who was too shitfaced to take him seriously from the onset. He's getting smeared across the floor here, by his own admission.
Except when you put him against a more skilled Archer, with better eyesight, aim, firing rate and smarts, which happens to have the perfect counter for his way of doing "archery".
When Saber is the one using it, it's actual invincibility. It's not going to give her the power to defeat someone else, but it's going to prevent anyone from defeating her.
Though I suppose it's possible someone could fight a long drawn out battle and try to exhaust her, but that seem a bit unlikely.
>Nasu pegged Gilgamesh as more intelligent than Archer in CCC
No, he didn't. Do you even moon?
EMIYA's fighting style relies on pure battle experience, Gil has no practical application of his supposedly enormous intelligence. He sure has a keen instinct, i'll give you that, but he's never outsmarting an opponent that can almost instantly comprehend what all of his weapons do even better than him (besides Ea) and is way more used to fighting in unfavorable conditions than him.
And yet he still gets overwhelmed.
Kiara's NP inflicts damage partly based on how intelligent the target is -- and Archer was supposed to take the least. You're the one who spontaneously decided Gilgamesh has no proper application to his intelligence when he has thousands of NPs to work with.
Hercules summoned as Saber. Bam. Herc was nerfed as shit by being summoned as Berserker in FSN, all it did was give him extra brute strength which he is already stat capped in while locking away all his greatest abilities and weapons.
Gil knows all his weapons? Big deal, Herc can naked wrestle him into submission, and we all know Gil would secretly enjoy it.
You still need go explain what Emiya's perfect counter to Gil's swordrain is from the Vimana, assuming the best case scenario wherein he doesn't resort to its nuclear arms and Ea.
You mean besides the countless Phantasms that Gil was spamming and killing Herakles with in UBW? Without the Strength boost, Enkidu will slow him down even more.
Ea isn't even worth bringing up. It'll take out all of his lives at once.
Assuming Gilgamesh as a Heroic Spirit in Archer class?
All Ultimate Ones, Zelretch, possibly Aoko Aozaki, Saber with Avalon, any Heroic Spirit or Counter Guardian summoned at full power via Alaya or Gaia, Slash Emperor, EMIYA and Shirou as well if they manage to UBW and prevent Gil from drawing Ea.
If he's going all out there isn't a single character from the Fate franchise that can beat him.
Nasu has stated himself that much. Gil only lost in F/sn because he wasn't even beginning to try.
Even all those broken characters from Extra/CCC aren't much of a match to him.
but when we talk about serious gil? You would need to have a hero capable of flight, low divinity but high strength for the chains, and high agility to not get skewered.
The only one I would think could have a chance is hermes.
boots with wings for flight/agility, cap of invisibility to not get EA'd, mirror shield for for of the shit that might hit him. I believe he didnt become a god after his legend so his divinity wouldnt be too high
Heroic Spirits at full power aren't automatically hot shit. Saber with Avalon needs foreknowledge of Ea. Emiya and Shirou are never getting UBW up, and Shirou himself admitted he would lose to a calm Gil even within the marble.
Gilgamesh just can't kill something that has no Gaian concept of Death. Aka, even as a complete Heroic Spirit, he could spam full Ea on let's say, Type Mercury, and he wouldn't manage to kill it.
Alexander lost because he isn't so strong to begin with (Medusa would wreck his ass) and because Gil had Enkidu, which is enough to beat him (just like Hercules couldn't do much against him)
>people call hitler mad
>can summon him as berzerker
>because he is not mad he just gets the enchantment without losing his sanity
>blitzkrieg NP allows him to get insane speed
>revolver NP allows him to kill legends with a single gunshot
Didn't Illya do it using double Zelretch magic?
Losing to ORT does not make you mid-tier. Gilgamesh is still the strongest Heroic Spirit, and never seemed to think he was in an unfavorable position even against gods. It took the original mother goddess for that (even if certain others like Amaterasu would qualify).
>All Ultimate Ones
Not necessarily all of them, but I'm sure plenty of them would fuck him up.
>Zelretch, possibly Aoko Aozaki
Maybe, maybe not. Zel only got lucky with TM, because the latter had no idea about magic.
A serious Gil is likely to develop some countermeasures.
>Saber with Avalon
She's beaten him when he wasn't going all out and was hardly being serious.
Furthermore, she has to step down of Avalon to be able to attack.
I guess it'll depend more on her strategy to win - and I can't remember Arturia ever being presented as a good strategist or tactician.
>any Heroic Spirit or Counter Guardian summoned at full power via Alaya or Gaia
Plenty of those are just scrubs next to Gil, so no.
Even a full CG EMIYA would likely have trouble.
You mean Ado Edem? Because Slash Emperor is just his sword, and it takes quite some time to prepare.
>Shirou as well if they manage to UBW and prevent Gil from drawing Ea
No, Shirou can only beat Gil if he's literally going full retard like he did in UBW - i.e he can only beat Gil through PIS.
So why is Zelretch still a vampire in the Fate universe then?
He is the stronger servant, but he is still behind all the other superior entities such as aristoteles, dark sakura and such, which are top-tier.
I wouldn't say he could beat rin's saber and EMIYA's UBW is the best RM to counter his GOB.
Aristotles aren't part of the Fate franchise.
OP was talking about the Fate franchise not TM in general.
There's no one stronger than Gilgamesh in the Fate franchise.
We're talking about franchises not universes.
Even if the Types do exist in the universe the Fate franchise takes place, they're still not part of the Fate franchise.
>Plenty of those are just scrubs next to Gil, so no.
Zelretch would totally destroy him, you're way overestimating Gil's power. Just because he can beat most of the servants doesn't mean he is the most powerful character of the universe.
Dark Sakura killed him, just saying.
CCC's Sakura are on a whole different setting, it's like saying arcueid sucks because her extra counterpart is weak.
Saber with Rin as a servant and Avalon could beat him, EMIYA as well. The other servants can't though, maybe Gawain or Lu Bu could try
Counter Guardians, by definition, are summoned with the exact amount of power to handle the situation. Aka any CG summoned by Gaia against Gil would have the power to defeat him. Also yeah I was referring to Ado Edem.
>Dark Sakura killed him, just saying.
Beating/killing someone who isn't even trying and who's acting retarded doesn't mean your stronger than them, just that they weren't trying.
The topic here is, what if he does try.
If Gil is going all out, Dark Sakura gets fucked. That's all there is to it.
power levels mean nothing, anyone can defeat even the most powerful of beings with the right abilities / preparation / surprise / tactics / etc. in type moon stories, including these two idiots. Deal with it.
You're thinking power in terms of raw power, which is what Gaia/Alaya can modify.
Gaia/Alaya doesn't take Gil's NPs into account - and those happen to the one of the reasons why he's so broken.
This is the very reason why Nasu said Gil would be a terrible match-up for Arcueid, because the Gaia modifier would take into account Gil's raw strength, not his NPs.
They won't have a choice. A serious Gilgamesh can just hop onto the Vimana and rain hell from above. Ea isn't even necessary at that point if he decides to just nuke the whole place.
He can be serious see HA, Zero and CCC.
In F/sn he was just written as a shitty villain. Hell, you're told that much in CCC.
F/sn is just Gil acting retarded. Don't take him as an example of what a serious Gil can do.
and that just makes the fact that even they can kill the most powerful heroes / mages / vampires / etc. all the more illustrative of the fact that power levels mean very little.
No, you're told he wasn't being serious in F/sn in both HA and CCC.
Hell, you can see in his fight against Iskander in Zero what happens when he goes all out.
Endless source of mana means nothing.
Gil can still blow her out.
Yeah. Most of them wouldn't have a choice.
It's a pointless thread, anyway. The materials already mention Gil is the strongest character out of Zero and FSN. He probably only loses to the very top of CCC, like the mother goddess and Amaterasu.
Indeed, the difference is he won't be doing stuff stupid like trying to pull Ea out in the middle of a close-range all out battle, or other stupid stuff like just raining a few swords on Sakura.
Furthermore, Ea beam he used on Iskander's RM was Ea going anti-world. The one he used on Saber was a very depowered one, single-unit attack.
The only thing stated is that he has the most powerful NP, the rest is just you assuming things wrong.
If you were to judge them by stats and malus bonus like Alexander's weakness against Enkidu then Rin's Saber with Avalon is as strong as him.
He did blow her out, people die when their heads are choppes. Yet he lost.
And yet he already use all his stuff in battle with with Saber and Shirou and still lose.
>The one he used on Saber was a very depowered one, single-unit attack.
It was at full power already.
>Indeed, the difference is he won't be doing stuff stupid like trying to pull Ea out in the middle of a close-range all out battle, or other stupid stuff like just raining a few swords on Sakura.
It's sounds like batman's preparation plan.
How about you read the materials before saying he's wrong.
>The Archer class Servant of the Fourth Holy Grail War. Though he was summoned by Tohsaka Tokiomi, he ended up deserting his master and re-contracting with Kotomine Kirei. He is the strongest character in both Fate/stay night and Fate/Zero.
>He did blow her out
He didn't. He turned her into a pin-cushion. But he didn't blow her out.
Had he done that. HF would have ended right there.
No, it wasn't. See Zero, HA and CCC.
That's Ea going at full power.
He has plenty of shit in GoB to keep Saber busy, so he can charge up Ea.
Of course, if she uses Avalon, it would be fucking stupid to try to do that.
Nah... Gil is nowhere near Batman or Doom when it comes down to strategy, but he was indeed portrayed as going full retard in stay night.
I'm not trying to wank him, but that's how it is.
Of course, being the strongest doesn't mean he cannot be defeated.
If you have enough strong servants and a good plan on how to neutralise Gil, beating a serious Gil might be possible.
However, a serious Gil is likely to fuck you up most of the time.
>No, it wasn't. See Zero, HA and CCC.
Yes, they just reveal that Anti-world status means in later Fate's. But it's still stated that he use Ea at full power in the battle with Saber. He thinks that Excalibur is worthy sword and he can pull Ea to counter him.
Calling "Gilgamesh is nigh-unbeatable within Fate when serious" wanking when Nasu has circlejerked that statement for years is becoming obnoxious. A lot of the posts in this thread are just anons sticking up for their favorites even though their chances are slim.
>Nah... Gil is nowhere near Batman or Doom when it comes down to strategy, but he was indeed portrayed as going full retard in stay night.
It was about that if he already knows all about his enemies then of course he can kill them. But if batman was defeated - it's always because he was unprepared for this.
The explanation being that Gil is scissors, and Heroic Spirits are paper. Even without compatibility he's worth five Servants in firepower, but having counters to almost every hero makes him an even bigger monster.
The problem is that when it goes Anti-World it does far more damage. The way it compresses the wind is entirely different.
Excalibur has nothing to do against Enuma Elish when it's unleashed the way it should be.
True, Nasu does make him out to be really strong.
The issue is different here, though.
It's not whether Gil is prepared or not, but whether he's being serious.
In F/sn he really was just retarded.
Compare F/sn to how he was in Zero, HA (when he wasn't Ko-Gil) and CCC, in which, even if he's still very cocky, he's far more composed and ready to take things seriously.
I'm not entirely sure you know how to type, but please understand this.
Gil is only serious with people he full respects. Gil fully respected Iskandar as a king, and as a leader
>Gil fully respected Iskandar as a king, and as a leader
The way you constructed that sentence implied that you were asking which character going all out could defeat Gil, not which character could defeat Gil if Gil was going all out.
Don't blame them for an awkwardly constructed sentence.
You send the greatest Jew to defeat a filthy Babylonian
The filthy goy doesn't own the greatest weapon entrusted by Yahweh to man
That's Gil's thing. He has positive compatibility against all servants. No servant exists that he cannot counter at least partially. Try not to spread your idiocy around too much.
I am. Manipulating saber into using poor strategy would be beyond simple, especially for a master manipulator like Gil. If Gil attacks from the Vimana, he couldn't be hit by any of saber's attacks.
The vimana is fast enough to avoid excaliblasts.
Excalibur is a conspicuous attack that requires a pause to use. The vimana is a fast-as-he-feels-like-going spaceship, and can't really be hit besides by other aircraft.
Lancelot had a F-18 Noble Phantasm at the time, not a one or two use sword laser.
A few of the TYPE's could probably nail him, Zelretch if he kept swapping lines every time he came close to losing, Arcueid might be able to throw him if she just throws out Marble Phantasm.
Assuming he threw out Ea as his first move, Bazett might be able to throw down too.
Blocking Ea is enough to allow her to throw an Excalibur at Gil, that's pretty much how it went in Fate.
And if we are talking about a full power Saber, then it would be even easier for her to pull it off.
>Lancelot had a F-18 Noble Phantasm at the time, not a one or two use sword laser.
Now excalibur is a crappy NP as well?
Gil can't teleport to vimana istantly and you can spam excalibur if you don't want to charge it fully. It would still cost a lot of mana.
Gil got his vimana destroyed and that's make him frustered, nice way to toying around.
What happens when a servant manas-out? Oh yeah, they go away.
A target on the ground, using a cumbersome weapon with a slow firing rate and high cost simply has poor affinity against a flying target not on a direct intercept course.
She never blocked Ea. She hid from it.
That assumes she even knows about the thing and that Gil has no knowledge of Avalon. She all but died meeting that condition and outright fainted in her final fight with Gilgamesh; he could have ended her right there.
But how will she hit gil if Gil is 5 miles up and constantly attacking and evading?
Keep in mind, being directly hit by even one GoB weapon is enough to be fatal.
A hypothetical full power gil just can't be beat without the Types becoming involved.
Saber got hit by far more, though. Avalon's regeneration let her pull through, even if GoB was slowly tearing her apart.
She probably doesn't beat hypothetical serious Gil, though. He gave her too many moments of respite.
Most dead apostles get shat on. Servants were said to have slight advantages against them, forget Gilgamesh. He most likely just loses to the aristoteles and a few of the others like Primate Murder and unrestricted Arcueid.