>>114388019 You're approaching this from the wrong direction. Araragi isn't being bullied. Senjougahara feels out her boundaries, and only takes things as far as Araragi can take it. Its a playful game of cat and mouse. Like when she had him handcuffed in the old school building, Araragi broke free instantly when he heard his sister was in danger. He could have broken free at any point if he wanted to, but he was playing along with her game.
Do you really want to be with someone who will never ever say anything bad about you? I mean, having Gahara for a girlfriend would probably make me want to choke her at some point, but if you can't take even one insult from your partner then you should really consider not being a pussy.
>>114387967 What is knowing the boundaries of a relationship so you don't sound like a cunt.
>>114388125 She still pushes them much harder than she should for no real reason than her own amusement and/or insecurity.
Other girls tease the fuck out of Araragi, but not to the point that it stops being enjoyable. Senjougahara definitely reaches the point of killing the fun in ways that are not okay, but not so bad that Araragi won't put up with it.
>>114388125 Oh no. Don't, don't, don't tell me about my world. Don't tell me about my world! I mean you just wanna have you fling with like the guy from the other side of town. Then you're going to go off to Stanford, you're going to marry some rich prick who your parents will approve of and just sit around with the other trust fund babies and talk about how you went slumming too, once.
>>114388285 Keep in mind that their first interaction with one other was over a paranormal experience wherein Senjougahara was basically exorcised. Immediately after that took place they both dealt with the Hachikuji Mayoi incident. Neither of them is normal, they both exist on the boundary between this world and the world of aberrations. With neither of them leading a typical life, its expected that they would have somewhat of an atypical relationship.
>>114388499 Yet all these other girls afflicted by the supernatural that he knows don't go around making him feel like shit for no reason. Senjougahara just feels really poorly socialized and Araragi isn't helping it by taking so much of her shit lying down.
>>114389033 Their whole relationship is fairly well done. She wanted to date him because he saved her. No other reason, he just happened to be the guy that did it. And he went out with her because fuck it, she asked.
No true love bullshit or taking forever to make a move. 'I want to go out with you just cuz' 'Alright'
>>114388917 Let's see, off the top of my head: Mayoi snail, when she pretends to see Hachikuji Araragi hates it so much he makes her promise never to hide important things from him again. They both break this promise repeatedly. Also, Nise 2, when she purposefully ignores Araragi he gets distressed and angry.
Plus, you don't need a fucking it directly stated to understand that having your lover dish out lots of targeted, deadpan insults hurts.
>>114389244 Just watch it for 3 to 5 episodes. If you don't like it, don't force yourself. If you have any desire to continue, then it may become your favorite series.
I had a Japanese girlfriend once, she would constantly say "fuck you" and make fun off my massive chin. But when she was done making me feel like crap she would tell me she was happy around me. I miss her so much.
>>114392029 Araragi doesn't deserve this womanizing reputation. Everything he does is at least consensual, if not reciprocated by them. >Cat Does nothing besides lusting after her, and that mostly stops after/during Nisemonogatari >Bat Deeply intimate, but non-sexual/romantic relationship >Snail The groping is a gag that becomes so regular she's actually offended when he stops for a while. They're mutually best friends by Nisemonogatari, and it's just one aspect of the teasing that's a core part of their relationship. Snail is in love with him, but is well aware they couldn't have that kind of relationship and would never want to hurt Araragi or the people close to him. >Monkey If anything Araragi is the defender here, resisting her attempts to seduce him away from Crab and later out-pervert him. >Snake Araragi views her as an innocent child (until she goes nuts) and has zero intention or desire to pursue any kind of intimate relationship with her. >Bee Mutual completely ordinary sibling dental relationship >Phoenix Probably his most platonic relationship in the series. No serious inappropriate intimacy on either side. >Doll Nothing from Araragi's side. She'd like to sink her teeth into him. Literally.
Oh while I'm here briefly, I've just finished re-reading all the novels and have skimmed through zokuowarimonogatari if anyone has any confusions about the plot anywhere they want to ask someone about.
>>114392895 Tsukihi is easily the least developed focus character in the series so there's not much to say there, she shows up fairly often but never really changes. Unlike Karen there's not even joke incest subtext between her and Koyomi, beyond the "similar boyfriend" and yandere tendencies thing (but as Araragi says about her, "A yandere can’t exist if the dere isn’t there. If it’s not there, what’s left is just a sick person.") I haven't read Tsukimonogatari so my knowledge of Yotsugi is mostly limited to the anime, but she's also underdeveloped and has pretty limited interaction with Araragi. The only subtext to my knowledge was the kiss and muscle thing in Shinobu Time, and my understanding was that the scene was originally an extended gag based around Yotsugi from a certain point of view being a zombie, and therefore admiring and wanting to 'taste' Araragi's toned body. Exactly how much of Koyomi and Karen's relationship is meant to be a joke is unclear but it's still obviously never going anywhere serious as a whole. Nadeko's relationship with Araragi is very simple and very complicated at the same time, since they're on two entirely different levels with each other. She completely wants him (ZENBU ZENBU ZENBU ZENBU) and he's virtually oblivious and uninterested.
>>114393371 >Tsukihi most stable >Responds to walking in on her brother bathing with another girl by returning with a frying pan and butcher knife
Kissshot and early Shinobu were highly unstable. But seeing her alternate universe self having destroyed the world Arararagi loves and forming an unbreakable bond with him, she has her head screwed on right. Right now she adamantly identifies as Shinobu, not the former Kissshot.
Similar thing happened with Cat, it just took 3 arcs, and she still has some issues to resolve.
>>114393538 Takes place in a mirror world, where everyone's hidden sides are actualised. Sodachi is the typical genki girl and tries to seduce Ararararagi, Mayoi is the adult goddess of the shrine and acts like a slug (she also tries to seduce Araragi. Shinobu isn't a vampire (vampires don't have a reflection), but she reverses suicide intentions in people. White snake explains the mirror. Nadeko is medusa-mode, hangs out with god-Mayoi (they drink together). Suruga is permanently the Rainy Devil (takes place 3 months before hana). Araragi meets Tooe Gaen, she tries to seduce him, says something about herself just being a moping devil. The male Ougi from Hana is here, as is female Ougi (Didn't understand this part). Turns out the world is Araragi's ideal, where he saved everyone in line with his ideals. Hitagi wins the ararararagi bowl
>>114393597 Hitagi has said a few times that she likes how popular Araragi is with other women, but she's not /actually/ into NTR. She'd cut his balls off. But he wouldn't actually cheat in a serious way. She just likes that he's sought after.
>>114393812 No no, not his ideal as in a utopia, rather, he solved everything perfectly. Everyone is happy and able to be their true selves. But yes everyone fucking lusts after him hard. The Tooe scene is fucking hot, naked hot springs shit.
Oh, also, parts of the book can be read with a mirror, so we're still working everything out.
>>114393924 They're not connected anymore. She lives in a castle and is basically just an amazingly beautiful woman with a suicide-intention reversal aura. I think she also tries to seduce him when he meets her. Araragi is a bit out of place in the world, so existing relationships are weird.
>>114394149 I said dangerous oddity. There's nothing dangerous about the cuckoo, it's only beneficial. Well, sure, but we're aware of that. She's stable in that she is exactly what she presents herself as.
>>114394252 It's certainly why I enjoy it. The writing is superb.
If you want to enjoy monogatari, yes. And you'll never be proficient enough as a non-native speaker to understand everything Nisio writes or alludes to, but that's part of the fun because other people notice different things.
>>114394252 It will be faster to wait for Shaft to adapt the entire series into simplified chunks and let Commie sort it out Except Kizu, which you can read here http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Monogatari_Series:Kizumonogatari/Koyomi_Vamp
Oh, and as for Karen and Tsukihi in Zokuo Karen is the younger sister by a few years now (it's ambiguous as to why, some people think because she wants to be treated as more of a sister by Araragi, but I fucking doubt that), and Tsukihi doesn't change at all.
>>114394299 This brings me great pain. Curse not being master-race. I suppose, for the time being, I'll settle for what little does make it into English. >>114394348 I suppose so. As far as Kizu goes, I read it, and I loved it. Translation in-of-itself is quite an art form. There's many different ways you can go about doing it, but to really capture the feel of something and lose little in translation forces you to make it your own. I don't know who in particular translated it, or how close to the original it was, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.
But, as far as I'm concerned, I've yet to read/watch any of monogatari until I get the full experience in the original language - but what I have now shall suffice.
>>114394500 Which is something I've been meaning to ask; What is it about this series that will either hook you fast or put you off? I've shown it to one person and they couldn't make it past the first arc >but crab is arguably the worst girl >they also have shit taste I was hooked right from the start.
>>114394500 It's basically just a confirmation that she's been a self-parody of Nisio's characters the entire time. Her defining trait is constantly reinventing herself, mainly by changing hairstyle, but never actually changes at all.
>>114394548 The first arc is pretty boring and not representative of most of the series. Mayoi Snail pulled me in, Mayoi and Koyomi have fantastic chemistry which just solidifies the banter and physical antics. It's the essence of the series in three episodes: lots of talking heads driving the story and comedy with conversation, outrageous antics (I just watched a high schooler harass, beat unconscious, and molest a little girl and it was hilarious the entire time), character development, and the capacity for seriousness and growth beyond humor.
>>114394546 They were entirely resolved in Owarimonogatari. Zokuo was largely unnecessary, the only important thing it brought up was Tooe in my opinion.
>>114394548 I pained myself through the first season, but the conclusion was so good. Then I fucking loved Nise and it's only gotten better since. Superficially, it seems like a shitty 2deep4u harem, but the later plot points are entirely predictable in the sense of recognising earlier character faults. It's very well planned, but you have to stick with it. Also, I can't recommend it to anyone I actually know because of all the weird shit. It's far from entry level. I can't just go "hahaha yeah" to them asking why I recommended something so much fucking loli and incest fanservice, even if it is character development.
>>114394895 I suppose she could be a parody in the sense she's straight-forward. Yeah, the hair is a good point, because haircuts in monogatari are basically "look! character change!" for everyone else.
>>114394825 I've been using the vague term "atmosphere" to explain why I liked it, which falls in pretty well with what you describe.
As far as being asked what it's about, I don't really know how to explain it - perhaps because I'm bad at summarizing. Your summary is pretty spot-on. I might use it in the future, if the topic comes up again - but hopefully it doesn't. Aside from anons on the internet, I like to keep the things I watch somewhat private - with the occasional recommendation here or there.
>>114394895 Therein lies the problem though, I suppose. Some people will drop it before even getting to snail. Mostly, I don't want to seem pushy, and as I mentioned above, I might just let my friend drop it so I don't have to deal with him knowing what I've watched.
>>114394920 I didn't fine the first season that painful - in fact, I really enjoyed it. Nise was definitely the most enjoyable though. Hana seemed out of place, but I guess more context is to come. You are hitting my feels exactly nonetheless. That's why I'm leaning towards letting friend just drop it. Then again, I know he would really appreciate the actual plot and development (much more so than the fanservice).
Forgive the wall, I just don't often get to discuss that which I enjoy.
>>114395030 I enjoy the first season in hindsight. It just seemed like harem collection at first. You don't appreciate the earlier parts until their significance actually dawns on you, I think (in my case at least). Nah, Hana made sense. It was the last thing to wrap up, as the last bit of critical information setting it up is looked at in Zokuo. Hanamonogatari has an incredibly long lead-up. I didn't even remember that Numachi was mentioned in the Monogatari Series Second Season until I rewatched it.
Yeah, unless they're really into anime, just forget about it. It's too weird otherwise. I think I could sell someone on the first season, but Nise is just... yeah, Nise.
I'm about to fuck off to uni, if anyone has any burning questions left regarding any of the novels. Frankly I'm surprised more haven't been asked about Owari, because that translation is still really lacking.
>>114395160 Well, my context going into Hana was the rest of the anime. I didn't read Kizu until after, and haven't read anything else - though I'd like to. I'm still at a loss with Hana, but I intend to rewatch it all at some point that isn't anytime soon.
You make a good point. Even if the casual makes it past Bake, Nise would put them off beyond measure. I have made up my mind to not push it. It's a shame too, the monogatari series is just great in many different ways.
>>114395246 >questions about owari So bullshit happens and Shinobu reverts to Kiss-Shot and actively decides to be soul-bound to Araragi again. Is there any extra context in this action or is it just, yeah, they decided that they like their relationship and want to continue it.
>>114395423 It's really quite hard to explain, but reflections are incorporated everywhere. Even on the front cover. The meanings of some parts change when read in reverse. It's fuckin' Nisio magic.
>>114395530 They enjoy each others company and were happy with their relationship. I'm not sure how else to explain it. Shinobu's life was pure suffering before she paired with Araragi. I think I'd really need to sit down and write something long out to explain this one.
>>114396504 Probably. People will stop themselves from making the most of anything.
Semi-related Blogging: I personally decided to not try for any more relationships while I get my career going. Because fucking some dumb slut isn't worth dealing with her shit and the sort of women I want to date will be out of my league until I get a real job.
I was expecting him to have matured some after leaving school, not to turn into some gay kid with thumb holes in his hoodie and luscious long hair.
Also, the incest and lolicon jokes were flanderized in the end. He's supposed to be only mildly into as was the case with Hachikuji and having a moment of madness with Karen. He shouldn't be this openly debauched.
>>114396054 There are pages that are just straight-up mirror-printed. But also sentences that make more sense read backwards and stuff.
>>114396050 Well, very basically, they care deeply for each other. While they may not be lovers, they can be considered soul mates. Araragi promised when the day came, he'd die with Shinobu. Mayoi Jiangshi offers the best perspective on their relationship. She sees no point to the life of a goddess she once had, where no one could recognise her for the person she truly was. The physical connection she forms with Araragi allowed her to experience the perspective of a selfless existence, someone who lived for others rather than others living for them (as per her origin). Where Shinobu's fault manifested as a bright light that blinded all, Araragi's manifested as a darkness that attempted to consume all. He lacks the self worth of Shinobu. Before she disappears, Mayoi points out that Araragi only talks about his own problems in depth with Mayoi and Shinobu, as they are entirely part of the world of oddities.
Essentially, they're parallel existences. One lived for others, one had others live for them. The existence of one supports the existence of the other, in a reflective manner.
I suppose that's the most concise way I can explain their relationship.
>>114397201 That's actually really important character development. He is true to himself after the events of Owarimonogatari. The key concept of monogatari is what is real and what is not, what you put forward and what you really are.
>>114397780 Goddess Mayoi acts like a slug, it's great. She's really lazy. She also has this vaguely dominating aura when she's trying to seduce him, like a predator. The best part is, it's written like their usual roles were swapped, and now Araragi is being sexually harassed.
>>114389295 >wow these characters don't act like one dimensional shit I think it's very unbelievable Maybe stop watching shit anime and you'll start to enjoy characters that have more than one character trait
>>114403332 Well, planned in that nothing is really irrelevant. The plot developments are logical once you've seen them occur. The wording is so specifically accurate even back in stuff like Suruga Monkey that it suggests he had already planned all the way to Hana
>>114403956 It always seemed to me that crab was crazy for araragi. In second season, she even goes to meet with Kaiki, someone she presumably doesn't want to ask help from, to save araragi. It's also mentioned that she would kill anybody who killed araragi, though that could be just witty banter. She seemed like the type that could go yandere at any point.
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