It's what she's been taught in the moe police academy. You surely don't expect somebody who's been taught to use a wrench, to just accept when on their first day on the factory they see people tightening nuts with their assholes despite all regulations even though it might be faster and safer in the long run.
I don't know if the books went into WHAT happened. I guess just there was just a HAPPENING, and most of the countries in Asia fell in to ruin. Choe migrated to Japan as a refugee. But Japan limits migration so "new ideas" don't flood in and cause people to question that Sybil is the best system on the earth.
I'm betting the rest of the world is better off than the Japanese like to pretend.
>>115203464 I wonder how much of that "wanting to be a criminal" is cultural and related to Japanese Society's stigma to guns. Would your average amerifat gun nut have a higher crime coefficient if he is personally convinced that carrying a weapon is completely normal and justified?
>>115203583 No, you fucking dipshit. Though it was kind of groan worthy, that was small time compared to last season.
Did you not watch last season at all? Where she kept getting in Shinya's way, trying to stop him from killing Makishima and getting revenge for his friend because "KILLING IS BADONG"?
And you say she's not obeying Sibyl, yet she had the chance to destroy it or expose it, but she chooses not to, because "bloo bloo it will create upheaval and people will be hurt in the short term, better to remain slaves in the long term while I try to change the brain cabal system from the inside".
>>115203758 What was wrong with that, she didnt want to kill him just because sybil decided it and also she wanted to question him. She even paralyzed him after he gave up, even though she could have just handcuffed him
>>115203758 To be honest, it was pretty rational act. If you let your criminal explode, you have one disgusting mess to deal with and you can't interrogate him. Killing in general is stupid, when you have already effective method to paralyze people.
>>115203848 True, I don't remember everything. The thing is, whether or not destroying Sibyl is right or wrong is up to the writers.
Let's say she would've fucked the system, the writers could've just let everyone go berserk and doom all of japan, or like you said maybe it would just be some short commotion and then everything would've been alright.
Seeing that all of this is only a what-if scenario we will never know, so this entire argument is pointless.
>>115204386 >TFW I've always bitched about purityfags, but legitimately don't want her going that way with Kogami. For once, I want just something stay like this. Not everything has to be romance, right?
>>115204365 The consequences of destroying Sibyl are an irrelevant what-if scenario. Akane choosing for herself and society to remain slaves isn't.
Akane is part of the fiction. Whether or not destroying Sibyl is right or wrong is indeed up to the writers, and whether or not Akane chooses to be a stupid moralfag is up to the writers as well. They chose the latter.
>>115204635 But the point was that the only reason she did not destroy Sibyl was that she did not want to cause too much collateral damage. Episode 1 of Season 2 showed that she does not play by the rules anymore and acts on her own will.
I don't know how capable the writers are and how they're going to resolve the whole plot. Let's assume she manages to take out Sibyl in a less sudden and dangerous way, which would not cause much uproar, then the decision not to destroy Sibyl in S1 would've been the right choice. Now if S2 or the movie ends with Sibyl still being around and enslaving everyone and fucking shit up, then of course you're completly right and Akane actions have been utterly pointless and retarded.
For now let's see where this train goes. So far I have hope.
>>115204950 >But the point was that the only reason she did not destroy Sibyl was that she did not want to cause too much collateral damage. Which is the decision I'm judging her for, you fucking putz. She could have freed herself and her society, but chose not to out of some vain, naive hope for a more peaceful solution in the future. A coward, she ran away from the responsibility of making a decision that came at a price. I'm sure the writers will shit out some hackneyed contrivance that will allow Akane to save the day and free everyone without violating her idiotic and idealistic principles. But even if terrible writing proves her "right," it won't change the fact that she is a moralistic moron that had no way of knowing whether or not her incredibly unlikely gamble would pay off.
>>115205303 It's more about some subtle changes to her face structure and less about budget/time.
>>115205314 So your point is that she had a chance and did not use it? Fair enough. If I didn't know there would be a sequel I probably would've been mad as well. I guess I tolerated her behaviour because I knew it's just a show and they will deal with it eventually.
>>115197774 this stupid bitch. >Decides to ignore literally all of the advice your senior has given you >did exactly jack shit for your job in this episode >Was going to straight out execute someone who could be salvaged and in fact was >even your system of government said so >still wants to kill the guy and shit all over your team i seriously hope she gets killed for pulling the stupid shit she is doing.
You know for a society based off of teamwork they did not coordinate very well to take down the guy when he is reloading a shotgun at point blank range. Like I can understand not wanting to charge him if he had a semi-automatic or was a few meters away but he was literally on top of them at the top of the flight of stairs. And there were a few guys. Just tackle the fucker and get the gun away from him when he is reloading.
>>115205801 I'm not surprised with how butthurt she is after her friend got turned into a sculpture. She harbors hate towards all criminals which includes enforcers, though Yayoi does seem to an exception. >Was going to straight out execute someone who could be salvaged and in fact was I can't really blame her for this. This is how most inspectors and enforcers are. Not everyone thinks like Akane or knows as much as her.
You faggots hate Mika because she shits on Akane. I hate Akane, so I love her for that. >>115205977 What I mean by "proven wrong" is that there winds up being no easy solution, and that the Sibyl system starts doing a lot of harm in the interim. I'm not trying to advocate some sort of objective morality here, I just want to see Akane reap karma for her stupidity and cowardice. Her suffering for her ideals is good, but if she's victorious and gets her way in the head, it doesn't mean much. I want to see her totally regret the decision she made at the end of season 1.
>>115206240 >liking Mika because she shits on Akane You were "that kid" at school, weren't you? One day the school said you couldn't wear fingerless gloves, but you insisted on wearing them anyways. Everyone snickered at you for being a faggot but you thought you were the hypest shit
>>115206438 the reason you are wrong is clearly explained in the show itself you damn fool. The primary reason she didn't is because revolt without anything to replace it with is both folly and shit.
So lets say she decides to go off sibyl and its run by edgelord syndrome shenanigans, what the hell then? this is a generation grown and raised with all they know is sibyl, do you simply think anything other then an authoritarian government will actually happen? No what would happen is sibyl dies, edgemaster wins and everything is anarchy shit, where literally every single god damn person starts to kill each other in mass just to survive. You just either sound like a 12 year old edgelord who simply wants to watch the world burn or someone who didn't bother to pay attention.
And Sybil knows it is a matter of time. Did you not watch the end of last season. They are actively working towards a future where the truth can come out and the current human prosperity continue rather then devolve.
I can understand the dislike of sybil in the fact that it kind of assigns you your future but the law enforcement and mental care aspects are top notch and should be what society is actively working towards now.
All of these things you see here are toys. At the end of the day, when you're alone in the dark, the only thing that counts is this - the law. And you will be alone, when you swear to uphold these ideals. For most of us, it is only death in the streets. For the few of us that survive to old age, the proud loneliness of the Long Walk. A walk that every Judge must take outside these city walls into the unknown wastes, and there spend your last remaining days taking law to the lawless. This is what it means to be a Judge. This is the commitment I expect. Class dismissed.
>>115206863 >I can understand the dislike of sybil in the fact that it kind of assigns you your future but the law enforcement and mental care aspects are top notch and should be what society is actively working towards now.
Not when it violates the NAP. Sibyl doesn't even allow you to leave Japan if you choose to refuse to live under such a society. I don't desire absolute safety because it is pointless. Despair and suffering are necessary for people to become stronger.
>>115206791 >>115206769 I don't get why you faggots get so upset over people mocking shitposting. I'm ridiculing someone who's shitposting without a shred of irony, trying to get him to refrain from doing the same thing in the future by mocking him, yet somehow, I'm worse because I used humor in calling him a retard.
>Despair and suffering are necessary for people to become stronger.
That is absolutely false. Some of the greatest minds in history had luxurious lives in a safe society. Some had completely shit lives in times of warfare and grief. That does not come into play one way or another when it comes to human growth.
>>115206829 >The primary reason she didn't is because revolt without anything to replace it with is both folly and shit. If you're a stupid coward, sure.
Your whole point is speculation. You're just illustrating that Akane is afraid of the unknown and afraid of change. Fear of worst case scenarios, and fear of a departure from the status quo. Maybe you're right, and it would be worse than Sibyl. At least they'd be free. I'd take anarchy over an authoritarian dystopia any day. And I can't believe you're calling me edgy for being against an Orwellian society that is literally based around thought crimes.
Obstacles contribute to the growth and wisdom of a person. Despair and suffering are obstacles but not the only ones. In fact they are some of the worst as they can bring people to suicide. Others can be overcome much easier without resorting to such an option.
>>115207168 A lot, probably. Shaming is a powerful social tool. >>115207128 I don't get why you're so incensed over that in particular. If you're going to be mad at something that was blatantly satirical, you'd think you'd be mad at the +1.
>>115207254 "I'm going to slowly flay you to death, Inspector Shimotsuki. I am going to peel off your skin, inch, by inch, by inch. But I am not unfair. Here, your dominator. See how Sybil judges me for this act, and be satisfied that justice was done."
>>115207256 its like you missed the point i was trying to convey completely, she is trying to change it, but theres no point in changing it if the answer is only going to be worse, you need to remember, even though sibyl is complete ass, its still better then the rest of the whole damn world as far as we are aware of. if my point is speculation your point is completely asinine. you assume sibyl dies and everything will instantly be rainbows and sunshine, if that isn't completely ignorant you are deluded.
>I heard that when Masaoka-san was a child, history was almost a required subject. >History was? >What did the people in the past think? What was their goal in building the society they lived in and managing it? If you take all the ideologies and mistakes repeated over time as a whole, you can probably imagine what an ideal future world ought to look like. However, this country is currently dominated by the Sybil System, which we are told is the ultimate system that brings about a perfect society. Given that, imagining a better society is utter madness. >True, thinking like that is likely to cause one's Psycho Pass to get clouded >Right, it will...as it's designed that way. In addition, if you research history in any depth, you'll find out that the current database is full of holes. >What? >All the data that's easy to obtain is there to assure us that the creation of this society we live in was inevitable. Any data that even hints at the possibility that other systems or ideologies may have been suitable for us is hidden away as if it never existed *slurp*
>>115207389 i don't think you understand his point. Authoritarian dystopia is always wrong no matter what. Being free even though its anarchy is better then being in an authoritarian government. Its like the whole security and freedom thing. freedom >security
>>115207121 I wouldn't say it's absolutely false just like that, at least not with the examples you give. There is no saying if those greatest minds in fact didn't suffer and despair with those luxurious lives of theirs.
>>115207256 You saw what happened when Sybil wasn't there for the people in S1. Total and utter chaos, because after being raised to live with it they end up hanging without it. Just look at all the basic education shit they are no longer taught.
But the thing is that you don't need to have despair to learn. And it is not like people don't suffer and despair in the Sybil system either. When they do they can go see a psychiatrist and you know work through it. Their hue will show them when they need to seek medical attention if their own efforts are proving ineffective.
And you are my enemy. I don't give two shits about my life but I care deeply about humanity. More so then anything else. I just want the species to survive and make it to the stars spread and survive until our evolutionary terminus or end of the universe.
>>115207541 the problem is she could give everybody their freedom and their rights back. The government is oppresive. One that destroys their rights on a fundamental level. It is better to get rid of it than to have it in the first place. I know her option is to find something "better" but she should have destroyed it even if it meant anarchy if that would happen. Remember sybil is only been there for about 30 years. I am sure htey could get their old government back and if not. w.e they have their freedoms and righst back. betetr to destroy it than have it at all.
>>115207433 >Being free even though its anarchy is better then being in an authoritarian government.
Why precisely is this? You make this claim as though it were an absolute truth of the world. You also ignore the fact that its much easier for a fairly free society to develop out the vestige of a strict authoritarian one than it is for a a reasonably free society to develop out of a chaos-filled state. You know what happens when society descends into anarchy? Some asshole with the most guns forces himself into power as a strict authoritarian, setting civilization back to its beginning of river valleys and warrior-kings. Meanwhile, the western democracies developed out strictly authoritarian state systems.
>>115207389 You're the one that's missed the point I've been making this entire thread.
Let me be as crystal clear as possible, since you don't seem capable of reading.
She has two options:
Choice A: Destroy/expose Sibyl - significant chance in things being anarchic and chaotic for a while before eventually getting better; significant chance in things being anarchic and chaotic for a while and staying that way; very slim chance of everything working out well
Choice B: Do nothing (try to change the brain cabal from the inside) - overwhelmingly significant chance of things remaining the same (i.e. Orwellian society run on thought crime); small chance of an opportunity arising that's more or less the same result as Choice A; very slim chance of everything working out well
Choice A carries risk, but has a reward. She is unable to take that risk, thus she is a coward. >its still better then the rest of the whole damn world as far as we are aware of We know that Sibyl says as much. >you assume sibyl dies and everything will instantly be rainbows and sunshine I have not insinuated that at all, idiot. I'm pretty sure my whole argumentation for her being a coward was that she's afraid of making a decision that will have actual consequences, and instead chooses to wait for "rainbows and sunshine" to magically appear and solve everything amicably.
>>115207740 Like i said, and then what happens from there? Typically the answer is a ruthless authoritarian government because that is always what happens when governments are violently overthrown like that. This isn't your Gurren leggan where logic is kicked to the curb for maximum rule of cool, the response that will happen is since authoritarian governments are typically the fastest and easiest ways to set order up that is typically what tends to happen if people arn't prepared to change for the better and then you are literally no better then you were with sibyl, if not even worse. Or lets say you choose anarchy, you now are like the rest of the world where everything is "Free" but there is now no industry and pretty much every person in the country will starve to death in the course of weeks.
>>115207818 and i'm saying your wrong by the fact that reform Historically is a far better answer then let everything be chaos, go full gung ho MURRICA, FUCK YEAH and blow the shit out of the government, everything goes to shit, and the entire country becomes a third world shithole where the majority of the population starves to death.
If their hue gets cloudy they know it and should seek medical help. Something is increasing their stress level. If they do nothing and become more and more unhinged then they may become a danger to themselves and others at which point they are forced into medical treatment to uncloud it. The problem is most people who let their hue get so cloudy causes them to recloud it again and become regulars. Then there are those who completely lose it and need to be locked up. Then there are those who are actively trying to hurt others or society and if the danger becomes too great they should be eliminated.
>>115207818 We understand your point, it's little more than overly reductive nonsense.
But fine, let's go with your autistic binary, let's ignore the fact that there are many many other options on the table than destroy Sibyl, expose Sibyl, and keep Sibyl. Let's ignore the fact that over time Akane can learn of other ways to deal with the situation at hand, and let's ignore the fact that a chance to destroy Sibyl in a way that doesn't involve starving the populace might come about. Let's stick with just your two options.
Choice B allows Akane control and influence. She can shape and fight for the society she wants, in a manner she wants.
Choice A is just destroying a bunch of computers and hoping things work for the sense.
Far from cowardly, choosing choice B is the hardest. It's up to her more than anyone else in choice B
>>115207942 reminder that sibyl was only a stopgap measure because they just walked out of hellish WWIII bullshit and the rest of the world is a burning ashpit. They can't go loldemocracy because that shit takes time and if all the infrastructure instantly goes to hell because sibyl runs EVERY aspect of society, then all you have left is an entire country of pissed off starving peasents.
My point is that Akane recognizes the Sibyl system as evil and unjust, has the opportunity to destroy it, and chooses not to, for fear of her decision causing chaos and hurting people.
If she had some kind of plan to dismantle Sibyl while minimizing chaos caused by the upheaval, that would be one thing, but she doesn't. All she has is a vain, desperate hope that one day, she'll be able to come up with such a miraculous plan. But she doesn't know that that will ever happen. And while she waits for a miracle that may never come, people will continue to suffer and languish under the oppressive system.
>>115208036 and the reason she didn't is because from a mature point of view, if you kill the government without any backup plans what so ever, the odds are extremely likely the answer is things will only end up way worse then they are, just because Akane actually had forethought didn't go full retard does not make her a coward.
Are people really this fucking stupid? Look I get that Shogo was a cool villain and all but destroying the food supply would have led to the deaths of millions and not done much to change things for the better.
In her current capacity Akane can actually better the world, instead of just destroy.
The clash between her and Shogo is an inherent problem with Post Structuralism. Akane knows that simply destroying does not make a better society.
Even SHOGO knew this! In episode 15 he says "It'd be nice if a better society came about, but that's not why we're doing this."
So no, Akane not destroying the food supply and keeping quiet about Sybil isn't evil, it's actually the best solution given the circumstance.
Life isn't a video game or the Lion King, where beating the bad guy makes everything better again
>>115207987 >a chance >might come about. This is exactly my point.
"Might". "Maybe". "Perhaps".
Do you see the problem here? What if your "maybe" never comes? Will you keep waiting? How long will you wait?
"What-ifs" and "maybes" are the realm of cowards and fools. >She can shape and fight for the society she wants, in a manner she wants. How? She's still a tool. She's not doing anything to undermine the brain cabal.
>It's up to her more than anyone else in choice B How is it not the same in Choice A? People aren't mindless barbarians. If you believe she can shape society in an authoritarian regime, what stops her from working to quell chaos?
>>115208254 you now realize either way she is a tool in someones plan, she is right now probably spending time researching different methods of government so when she finally does get around to shitting on sibyl, she can actually put something in place so everybody doesn't die like a motherfucker. If she Destroyed Sibyl she falls right into the edgelord anarchist hands whos entire purpose is to watch the entire world burn while watching everyone starve and die. At least with this plan she has time to set up a proper plan instead of going full retard and gunning the shit out of everything with nothing afterwards.
>>115208254 >what-ifs and maybes are the realms of cowards and fools What ifs and maybes is literally fucking everything, you dense motherfucker. Life isn't chess, it's Texas Hold-Ems. You play the cards you're dealt and try to pick the most sensible option based on probability of success.
Akane has a higher chance of changing the world FOR THE BETTER in her position than she would if she poisoned the water well.
Destroying Sibyl would change the world, but not for the better. For the worst, most likely.
A cloudy hue unchecked will get worse. The person either needs to get over their issues themselves or have someone help them get over their issues. That is why the Psycho-pass system has numbers and thresholds. If you have a cloudy hue and are working on solving the problem either by yourself or with assistance your psycho-pass number will be low. It is how Akane was able to talk down the bomber and get him to the stun threshold rather then the kill. The guy's physical actions on the roof did not change but his outlook at the world did and his hue got less cloudy.
>>115197774 If I've never seen anything Psycho-Pass related, should I start with the original series or is the new recap series better? Does the new recap series have additional scenes and content or is it a condensed, shorter version?
>>115208373 How do you know she isn't making a plan? Are you a mind-reader?
In any event, all revolutionary figures, from the American founding fathers, to the Latin American revolutionaries, to the French Intellectuals had to have time to think things through and prepare for transition.
Akane is 22, she's still trying to work things out.
She's trying to reconcile the views of her from Season 1, Shogo, and Shinya. It's a complicated task and it's going to take some time.
>>115208339 Change will be definite with my option. The only maybe is how difficult it will be, and if the future will be better. And even if it's worse, it will at least be a future wrought with their own hands, rather than one prescribed to them. >The only difference is Akane doesn't have to murder millions of people to pick the choice she picked. That's not definite. What is definite is that her inaction leaves all of her society enslaved, with thousands murdered for crimes they didn't commit.
>>115208496 >all revolutionary figures, from the American founding fathers, to the Latin American revolutionaries, to the French Intellectuals had to have time to think things through and prepare for transition.
Not to mention that these guys were just the tail end of a 2 century long period of thinking about it
First your denial of treatment hurts nobody but yourself or your close relations.
Second the reason most cloudy hues don't hurt anybody is because they get help or get over it themselves as I said. If you get to the point, lets give it a number of lets say 200-299, then you are not seeking help and are just letting it grind on you over and over which will eventually make you snap. If you are dealing with it yourself which the vast majority of people do then your number will be far less and you will recover over time.
>>115208602 >First your denial of treatment hurts nobody but yourself or your close relations.
This is a contradiction because you were using suicide as an argument for Sibyl earlier (assuming you are the same anon)
>Second the reason most cloudy hues don't hurt anybody is because they get help or get over it themselves as I said. If you get to the point, lets give it a number of lets say 200-299, then you are not seeking help and are just letting it grind on you over and over which will eventually make you snap. If you are dealing with it yourself which the vast majority of people do then your number will be far less and you will recover over time.
So then people shouldn't be forced to seek treatment against their own will seeing as how most people get over it.
>>115208557 Right, and in the different revolutions we can see different degrees of success. The Founding fathers of the United States prepared for transition and society remained relatively stable, save for a few local rebellions.
The French were super intense and hardcore and spontaneous, and this led to the terror, and, ironically, a quick return to autocracy
The Latin American leaders caused a cycle of revolution, authoritarianism, and overthrow, because they were super duper chaotic.
So if you truly want a new society, you need to work for it. You need to do your homework, you need to think, you need to prepare for transition
Jettisoning a food supply and hoping for the best is so incredibly stupid I can't believe there are people who give Akane shit for not doing it
>>115208486 Cancer is a bad analogy since it is not contagious and won't kill anyone else directly. Compare to highly contagious or lethal diseases where all societies that understand germ theory will force individuals into quarantine and treatment sites.
Jesus. You are not paying any attention are you. If your Psycho-pass number gets too high you are past the point of either helping yourself or wanting to help yourself. That is the point. They are numerically classifying it in the fucking show with a number. When you get above x number you are letting it get too bad.
The massive majority of people will never ever ever get a psycho-pass number high enough to warrant forced medical treatment. The ones who do are the ones with rising psycho-pass numbers. Remember the population can't read their own psycho-pass numbers they just get the generic hue.
>This is a contradiction because you were using suicide as an argument for Sibyl earlier (assuming you are the same anon)
That discussion was based off of the need for suffering in society not Sybil. Suffering is not and will never be required for human existence. It can augment it but is not required.
>>115208857 >No but we can protect others from it by getting a vaccination and you can't be infected. So if a retard does not want a vaccination they can suffer and you will be just fine. That's not how it works. People who do not get vaccinated are a threat to people who do get vaccinated because they can get infected and it can mutate and become resistant to your vaccination.
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