Is Manga seriously still produced in such an old-fashioned way like shown in Nozaki-kun?
You could slap that shit together in like 10min using Photoshop.
Eat my shit, already better than most of the shit you see normally
It depends on the artist, I think. There are many that still do the line-art on paper and ink it, then do finishing in PS/Comic Studio. But definitely many that have switched over to mostly/all digital.
Wacom has a lot of accelerated videos showing the work process of various artists using their tablet monitors for drawing if you're interested in how pro artists work:
(Tiv from Masamune-kun's Revenge, for example)
7/10 I actually laughed, great 4koma comedy manga.
now with added menacing
Here's a layout example with Comic Studio Pro
This is also where all of those standard screentones and patterns like "shoujo sparkles" come from/are applied at.
(Although you can get similar screentone packages for PS as well)
besides a few convenient factors, there is almost no difference at all between digital and traditional production. anyone who says otherwise is probably just underestimating traditional/digital art.
tsugumomo as well
It goes with the artist's preference. Some will use tablet and photoshop, some will do it with traditional tools.
They're free to use whatever they want, so long as they finish it within their deadline.
Beginner mangakas use ink and paper because ink and paper are cheap.
Established mangaka can use what they want, but they've learnt on ink and paper so some of them still ink.
There's youtube vids of professional mangakas using some of the nicer wacom tablets to draw stuff.
Uhm, buying a Cintiq isn't all that much money in the grand scheme of things. Especially when you're using it for your job 50+ hours a week.
A 3rd Gen can be had for $1500, and the 4th Gen HD ones are $2500 or less. People spend that much on a bike, or one trip. Boats or motorcycles are $10k+
And I bet they can make it a business expense anyways.
Yeah but when they're starting out and living on ramen, they don't have cash. When they get serialised and are working 50 hours a week they don't have time to re-learn how to draw using digital processes.
Cliche stereotypes much?
I bought one, and I only worked at Pizza Hut at the time.
And I got a Nostromo shortly after that pic, as it makes a perfect pair to the Cintiq for keystroke shortcuts in PS etc.
I would almost say some sort of numpad for the left is required, otherwise its kinda a pita.
Good computer, tablet and monitors plus the software costs can probably get you a shit ton of paper, drawing tools, screen tones and ink I daresay.
And Japan being one of those bizarrolands where not everybody has a computer.
>he doesn't understand quality manga works.
Traditional drawing always superior anon.
>you mean all those time and money wasted buying drawing tools, screen tones, ink, not to mention space
>drawing tools, screentones, ink, etc
>adobe creative collection
>a decent drawing tablet
Sure is worth it.
actually, several mangakas updated to using computer aid instead of Xeroxing their alphas to manually paint the betas and gluing the gray scale stickers
there was an interview with Araki that he commented how was the change from traditional to digital when he started SBR
One of the arguments for learning to draw manga traditionally before drawing on a computer, is that the transition from traditional to digital is fairly easy, but the transition from digital to traditional is hard.
Most people who draw digitally can't draw traditional.
You may pass.
He's leaning against the wall when he gets shot.
Then I think it would be something more like this, with him collapsing and falling backwards along the wall, since he was turned to look to his left and thus had his weight positioned towards his right.
> Calling Innocent disgusting
Congratulations, anon, you've reached completely new level of pleb.
I didn't know it was done digitally. Fukken sugoi.
Togashi problem is not really with his art, he is a lazyfuck that can't produce under a schedule
I always imagine it like this
>manga artist draws his manga at home
>his home is some poor apartment like the one Kurosawa lives in
>doesn't have chairs, he sits at a tiny table on the floor
>has a single assistant who is always a young and pretty girl
>she is in love with him but he doesn't notice
>artist is constantly getting calls from the editors of the magazine his manga is published in
>they always demand more pages than he could ever draw
>somehow he still always makes it a few seconds before the deadline
We should start our own weekly magazine.
That picture is from a while ago, so it's not as good now. It's mechanically fine still, but the surface flaked black shit everywhere. I can't complain that much for a $60 chair though. I'll definitely invest in a nice leather one next time.
thanks do- WAIT I'M NOT EVEN ON /v/
Tablets make no difference. My friend created professional looking work with a mouse. What he had was a decade and a half of experience. As long as you know where lines are suppose to go and put enough time/skill you can create a masterpiece just by peeing in the snow.
You'd be surprised how busy he was. I'm been a neet for half a decade and the one thing I can tell you is if you don't do what you want little by little in your free time and aspire to build your talent ten you most likely won't get that much progress even if you had nothing but countless hours of free time for years and years.
Nothing is stopping you if you put in effort.
You say you'd make reaction images if you had the skill, but how much have you dedicated of yourself to actually developing any skill instead of making excuses?
>Some people just don't have the talent for it.
Again how much time did you put into it, and what methods/resources did you use? Like anything else in life that means something it takes effort.
You'll probably never see what it means not to have talent. I imagine that if you actually did learn anything from the anons here, you'd go try it for 5 minutes, to an hour max for a couple days at best and give up, thinking that's actually what effort means.
Too much time.
You're right, because all I know is what it means to have talent. I could sculpt, and I was damn good at it too. Something about the wiring in my brain is fucked up because the process doesn't happen with drawing. I just stare at the paper and scratch my head.
I can't do any of those.
Basically this. What people fail to understand often is most anime/manga artists don't get good from drawing cartoons. They build a strong foundation from drawing from life, learning anatomy, form, flow, and other fundamentals from traditional sources. By becoming a good artist in the purest sense of the word, then if it's what they love they apply that skill as they learn the ins and outs of cartoons and develop a their own style.
As someone who did art for a few years and probably if I had pursued it I'd get somewhere; a blank page is the most frightening thing on the planet.
I was always scared to start a new project. I think that's what made me drop it.
And how much time did you actually spend doing some LEGITIMATE learning? Just because one doesn't have talent doesn't mean one can't reach a decent level of expertise. In all the conversations I've had with people who frame their ability to do things because they "don't have the talent" failed to realize they never put in enough effort or had an extremely poor learning process.
Okay I'll work you through the basic progression of an absolute beginner.
Get tracing paper or a light table/create one, then trace. If you actually TRY and put your heart and patience into it a few times you'll get something at least okay, but you'll develop a feeling for how far apart everything is and such. If you look into proportions you'll be amazed as well.
From tracing you move onto copying which is pretty much the same as tracing but you have to focus harder and judge everything by eye to get it much as close as possible, and for tracers copying is a big jump.
After that you use references to create characters you like in original poses/angles by understanding there proportions and designs by heart.
And from there you can expand into many paths of original design and experimentation. You'll build a lot of confidence that way if you don't have it.
Tablets still can be lacking in the tactile feedback that paper provides though. One argument I've heard made in support of traditional media, at least for training purposes, is that you're forced to deal with and be much more mindful of errors because they're more difficult to fix, as opposed to hitting undo.
This with basic anatomical understanding will take you far.
Also what's important is to understand the elements of art... shape, form, value, line, color, space, and texture. Then you go into principles of design.
The internet is the biggest library in the world and this is entry level basics in the art world. My belief is even if logic is your dominant hemisphere, you can still become an amazing artist, because art also has specific formulas. There's countless ways to learn but every one of them means putting in a lot of work and the more efficient you make your learning process the farther you'll get in less time.
>Is that some new age tumblr way of saying "fucking retard with no talent and no chance of success"?
I'm not trying to antagonize you. If all you do is scratch your head when you look at a sheet of paper you should put pencil to paper and draw instead. You're not the only one who feels that way. If you head over to /ic/ you can always find a depressed artist thread of some sort. Though if you're through with learning to draw that's fine, people have different priorities in life.
I don't like it when people tell me to "just start practicing!" when I say I wish I could draw. No, that takes thousands of hours of practice and I don't care enough about learning how to draw to put that much time into it, I have other things to do. I'm just saying it would be nice if I were able to draw, right now, and I could do some cool stuff, but since I can't I probably won't unless I win the lottery and obtain infinite free time.
All of you whining about talent are really silly. Because what talent can get you is to create incredibly intricate and detailed pieces.
The level you guys would be satisfied with but don't think you can ever achieve, a chimp with a pencil up his ass could do if he tried long enough.
If I put a gun to someone's head and threatened to torture them with a cheese grater if they didn't comply with me, I'm sure I could break down every wall someone has about talent and teach them a little pride and that they can draw well.
> If all you do is scratch your head when you look at a sheet of paper you should put pencil to paper and draw instead.
What? This makes no sense. "If you can't draw, then draw" ?
You're an idiot for thinking torture ever works. It just makes them harden up.
But I wasn't correcting myself. I was pointing out that you completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which I find extremely difficult to do because I have no clue how you would interpret what I said the way you did.
I called you a cunt because you make a pretty damn big assumption that I made any excuses in the first place.
On that note, if you could make an exact copy of OP's image in 10 minutes, I would shit up and admit I was wrong, because THAT is the point I was making in my post that was meant to be witty, but you've gone and blown this entire damn thing out of proportion, punk.
This. Having a full time job tends to eat up most of your day, and mine's not even the worst compared to some of my friends. Then there's familial responsibilities, social obligations, etc.
>obtain infinite free time
If you spend 15 minutes on it 3 days a week for 5 years that would amount to over 150 hours of practice and you'd be able to draw at a level of a standard draw fag.
Exactly. Yeah, sure, I COULD learn to draw if I magically gained thousands of hours of time and I could use it without aging a second, but you can say the same of fucking anything at all.
No, you need to spend at least several hours every single day just learning the basics.
You have to be baiting. No one could be this baka.
Riiight. So if somebody has a habit of just doodling because that's all you can do with a piece in fifteen minutes, you think that somehow translates to proper skill?
Are you actually this retarded?
This is what people mean by excuse after excuse after excuse. You'll never be a good artist, not because you can't be with a little time every day but because you'll keep making excuses because you're afraid to try.
>you can say the same of fucking anything at all
Not really, since most "skill increasing" related tasks coincide with whatever your career is.
If you're a career artist, good for you and best of luck financially, but don't be arrogant enough to think literally anybody can just drop what they're doing career-wise and pick up drawing.
That doesn't do anything about his stupid phrasing.
You didn't pay attention to anything I wrote, did you? I tried doing it for YEARS, and failed every single time. These days I've just plain given up.
>If you spend 15 minutes on it 3 days a week for 5 years
Fifteen measly minutes isn't enough to learn.
Woah dude, don't shoot me, I'm on your side!
>don't be arrogant enough to think literally anybody can just drop what they're doing career-wise and pick up drawing.
That's what I've been saying to them.
No he's right. You can use it to actual learn principles, or study someone elses drawing process in videos, or yes actually doodle. Day by day you will improve, but you have to actual put in that time consistently instead of making excuses even if you're discouraged.
This guy's right. I doodle all the time and I can't draw for shit.
But, when I spent an hour a day for about a month (before I just kinda stopped caring), I did get mildly better at drawing stuff. I can do shapes that don't look flat on the paper and have perspective.
Also, typical anime/manga style stuff is "easy" as hell, since it doesn't bother with all of the "traditional" rules of art.
No, he's wrong. Again, doodling exclusively does not produce any decent artwork.
He didn't say an HOUR, he said fifteen minutes, which is why I called him out on his bullshit.
But it does. The fundamentals relate to everything and since cartooning is about simplification and exaggeration its easy to make something that looks ugly and not supporting of the things narrative if you don't know how its supposed to look and work in reality.
I guess this is why you use quotation marks.
Just saying that they aren't as much rules as they are tools passed down from artists that went before us.
>Also, typical anime/manga style stuff is "easy" as hell, since it doesn't bother with all of the "traditional" rules of art.
Depending on what you mean by that sentence, you are completely wrong. The simplification of subjects in anime/manga usually mislead many on how deeply rooted it is in the fundamentals.
You're right, fifteen minutes is hardly any time at all. An hour though is a bit more time to get at least something done, and doesn't take your whole day away.
Yeah, it has roots in fundamentals, but in the simplification of certain things, they go around what is generally seen as traditional art.
They take liberties with stuff like proportions and perspective and whatnot, is what I'm trying to say.
Drawing ability comes down to hand eye coordination and fine motor control. The only talent required is a love for drawing strong enough to motivate you to practice.
There is nothing difficult about drawing.
I recently drew a character after a long period of not drawing cuz my art sucks. I discovered my skill hasn't changed...thank god it didn't get worse at least but in terms of improvement I think I've hit a brick wall. I seem to have a cartoony style that I can't shake off without tracing another's style. Wat do?
Cartoon and highly stylized art is not usually reductionist but symbolic. Cartoonists rarely ever work their way down from fine arts training, they start at the bottom and either stay there or work their way up to more technically difficult understanding of art.
I'd be happy to just make erotic illustrations.
How do you like this cypress poking at a pussy that I "drew"?
Maybe a real drawfag in this thread can expand on my composition. Just keep the bush, you loliconfags.
Not that anon but I tried your challenge. I haven't drawn in forever and wasn't that great to begin with. If you practice daily though it makes a huge difference. Believe in yourself.
If this is true, I wish more people would mention it when talking about learning art. Every time I think about it the time spent drawing shit that I could not give less of a fuck about scares me away.
If you don't enjoy what you're drawing you will never practice and never get better. Drawing anything is better than not drawing. Just don't pretend your shitty scribbles are good prematurely.
It's okay to have feels, anon. No one will laugh at you
got mine while I was working at a butcher.
1 1/2 years of saving,
mine you I was 17 at the time.
Simplifying anatomy with forms and also a little perspective.
15 minutes of theory could still be very good. For example, I read perspective made easy during breaks at school, put it to practice at home (~10 minutes) and finished the book in a few weeks. Point is, an apple a day keeps the idiots who think talent is real away.
Well talent is real. Ask any art teacher who's been doing it long enough and there's very young people way beyond there years.
That said a lot of effort is a talent in itself as well.
>Nothing like this has been posted yet
You're losing your touch, /a/.
I can sort of understand why anime is still animated on paper but why are the backgrounds done with traditional painters. Many of them are pretty detailed and it just seems like a huge pain in the ass with real paint. Digital is so much more forgiving with inevitable mistakes.
Where did it all go wrong, Pepe? When did you stop feeling good man from peeing pants down and start feeling the feels?
I know. I'm just saying talent does exist.
But people who say they can't draw because they don't have talent are making excuses. Skill can always be achieved with effort.
Last picture. I hope that this is enough evidence to people that anime/manga has deep roots in the fundamentals. The evidence is obscured by the simplicity of the presentation. Some might wonder where the artists are constructing the forms for some of the pictures. They do it in their heads because they gained the ability to after practicing for years and years. I'd also like to remind that death/health problems by overworking exists in Japan a lot.
And I fucking forgot to attach it to the post.
Well we're not trying to prove that manga artists work hard. A lot of the thread was convincing people that they can draw and you don't need to be on that level to produce work at a hobbyist level.