It really does show how broken he is though; the anime didn't show it, but in the VN people in the bottom floors were like melting and shit, and he's just got a look on his face like he deals with this shit every day.
So in the VN he only cares about Taiga and Sakura? I hear he went rage shit when he found Taiga in another route like this and in the anime he certainly seemed upset at seeing Sakura like that. That's pretty disturbing that he wouldn't care about about dozens of melting corspes as long as they weren't people he views as family, like those are the only two people who bring out the humanity in him.Shirou's a fucking nutbar.
>>117649185 It is the only subtle way to really show it for now.
If we are lucky we will actually see in the HF movie(s) Shirou as he loses his mom, dad, and actually seeing the grail.
>>117649319 He cares for both of them. However Taiga is the only real family he has left as she helped stabilized him growing up so she is above everyone else. He is willing to kill Rin to protect her.
>>117649319 The VN (and at least this adaptation) never hides that Shirou is a broken man. It's a little ironic that Kotomine was searching for an equal in Kiritsugu, but ended up finding one in Shirou.
Kotomine and Kiritsugu are like oil and water. Kotomine and Shirou are two sides of the same coin.
>>117649319 He cares, but he gets all calm and collected when he's angry, unless it's about his family (Taiga, Sakura) or someone mocks his ideal. In fact he ONLY cares about other people, and he gets pissed at Archer constantly because Shirou doesn't know how to like himself, and Archer represents the ugly truth of his ideal that he doesn't want to acknowledge, the same truth Kiritsugu told him before he died.
>>117649578 I thought the turning point was when he became a counter guardian and all he did was kill,kill,kill and more kill, never save just kill and kill and kill. people begging for their lives, people who had no idea how their actions fucked the world up enough to have to call in a grim reaper for them personally.
>>117649578 >His turning point was when he saw the same people that he saved were trying to kill him What? He explicitly says in Extra that being betrayed was not a big deal and he expected that to happen eventually. He became disillusioned after becoming a counter guardian.
>>117649964 Just as Platinum to make a DMC/Bayonetta/MGR:R style game where you play as Counter Guardian Archer.
It can involve a small girl you help in one mission, a teen a few missions later (time skip), she can be a granny near the end during another travesty, and then at the end he visits her grave right after finishing his latest mission.
>>117650052 Archer doesn't "help" anyone as a counter guardian. If he even managed to save one person as a counter guardian, he wouldn't be the cynical prick that he is. The whole problem is he gets summoned to slaughter everything around him, not to save people. He doesn't even have free will, he is like a killing machine that can't help himself, but he keeps on suffering because all he wants to do is save people.
>>117650597 Primate Murder has an anti-human property though, and counter guardians are still human souls, and are summoned by Alaya, which is the greater will of humanity. It's like using a dragon slayer against a dragon, you'll need a lot of dragons to kill that hero.
Sorry if this is a noob question but there is one thing I was always confused about..
Each master gets 3 command seals. If you use all three, does the servant leave or do they leave if they want too? I cant imagine Saber and Shirou having a good relationship and Saber just going "oh well you just your third seal, time to bounce"
>>117650881 The connection's still there, even if all the seals are used up. The Command Spells and the contract connecting the Servant and the Master are technically two separate things. You can be a Master even without a Command Spell as long as you have a Servant.
However, indeed, without a Command Spell, there's nothing stopping a Servant from disobeying your orders or outright betraying you. That's not an issue with Servants like Saber or Lancer, as long as they're on friendly terms with you, but someone as treacherous as Caster would be a problem. Rider would definitely betray Shinji without a second thought if A) he didn't have his Provisional Spells and B) he wasn't Sakura's brother.
Decent episode. The directing was much better than last episode with no still or almost still scenes with lots of talking. Shirou continues to show shounen levels of density towards members of the opposite sex. Also couldn't help but notice that this part was a bit sexist. Rin (the woman) is supposed to be the powerful and knowledgeable mage, yet makes two key mistakes and then buckles under the pressure of the situation... only for Shirou (the man) to calmly deal with the situation and summon Saber to save them.
>>117651556 Assuming you're being serious, there's a clear reason outlined for why Shirou was okay while Rin wasn't.
Shirou's used to shit like this. He experienced a severe tragedy in his path that allows him to remain calm in life-or-death situations. Rin, on the other hand, has minimal experience with this sort of thing. She's a skilled magus but she's neither a soldier nor a killer.
>>117651571 That's the gist of the story. You HAVE to persuade her to let it go. If you don't, you've been playing like the idiot you are. She's loyal to Shirou. It's just that her body moved before her mind would react.
>>117652233 I didn't say they'd be compensating in the same ways. It's like they never had any of the Assassins act like actual Assassins. Fucking Kiritsugu acted more like an assassin than anyone in the Assassin class ever did. Where were all the attempts at stabbing, poison, disguise, manipulation, subterfuge? None of them did any of that. All they did was scout, sneak around, make idiotic attacks or guard stairs
>>117652190 Guess I'll have to. Only been exposed to Zero, F/SN and F/HA so far
>>117652379 I don't even understand why Sasaki was in the Assassin class other than there being no slots left. The whole thing seems like a joke since Sasaki was a samurai, the very group of people that got wiped out by assassins (ninjas)
>>117652466 They should be able to kill Servants too, or else what are they good for? I mean, just once, I'd like to see a really well-thought out and executed plan carried out by someone from the Assassin class. That shit can be more exciting than the big dumb fight scenes between knights than Nasu seems so fond of. It's a large part of why Fate/Zero is so much better than most of the rest of the franchise, instead of basic "who's that" or "who did that" mysteries, you have people throwing schemes on top of conspiracies and you've got no idea whose plan will be most successful even if you know how it all turns out.
>>117652550 >Being assassin is the most suffering I thought that title belonged to Lancer
>>117652748 Shirou falls for Rin because he never noticed his kouhai and because Berserker never tore up Saber, so he never got overly concerned for her, meanwhile Rin does whatever she can to push herself to the front of his mind in every route.
>>117652648 Depends on what Rin wants. It is *her* harem after all.
>>117652847 Shirou and Rin come to understand each other. They both have each other's backs throughout the entire story. She grows to admire his ideal and wants to help him live it. She's the only girl to really actively seek out and learn what makes him tick.
But everyone keep responding to the blatant bait anyways. Every Sakurafag seems to cling to that one comment Nasu made about how the Tohsaka/Shirou romance isn't as real. Then Sakurafags stop there, and forget the part where Nasu talks about how theirs is about a growing love and Sakura's is an already present love.
But no, Tohsaka's a slut even though all her actions prove differently, and nothing written in F/HA counts even though Nasu wrote it and FSN is an infinite multiverse.
>>117653024 They know there's something wrong with him, but they don't actively seek to help him because they both have their crazy problems to deal with.
In a way, UBW was more about Rin trying to get the boy, rather than the other stories where it's the boy trying to get the girl. The entire date with them was her trying to make him happy, and that's a theme that's a constant through their romance. She actively wants to help Shirou.
No, he just admired her. Don't confuse admiration with love. It's like the affection to a pop star or idol. But don't joke around he gave a fuck about Rin in UBW like he did with Saber in Fate or Sakura in HF. He never paid attention to her suffering or issues when they were brought up to him, he ignored her. She was just convenient to get his ball rolling.
>>117653094 >Last Episode >Nasuverse >not canon Everything is canon you filthy fucking mongoloid There can be a timeline where it's just Riderpegging Saber, Rin, and Shirou the entire 5th war and it'd be just as canon as Fate, UBW, or HF We just need Zelretch to stop slacking and fucking find it
They don't? In Fate and HF, Shirou is fixed. Saber gave him his ideals and a happy ending, both strove for. Sakura was healing him before he realized it, that realization eventually lead to his ending.
In UBW, he's still a broken human beings. Rin's a failure as her Tohsaka curse permitted her to be.
>>117652847 >>117653024 Sakura: Already in love kind of Saber: Love at first sight Tohsaka: Boy meets girl, schoolgirl/boy crush becomes real love.
None of those are "better" than the others. They're all different types of romances and love stories. Obviously Shirou would be less close to Tohsaka than Sakura, he's been with Sakura for a few years and is only just now getting to know Tohsaka.
This shit really isn't that complicated. If Shirou/Tohsaka doesn't count, then it applies to all other animu romances where boy meets girl and they slowly fall for each other. Which means 95% of anime romances are doomed to fail and aren't real.
>>117653206 so does Zeltretch not give any fucks at all at this point and just does things for the hell of it given that he's the only user of the 2nd magic, is pretty much immortal, and has been around for several centuries?
>>117653159 Well that's natural. We can't forget who Shirou is, he's a man with a messiah complex, he feels the compulsion to save and fix everything around him. So of course he's a bit out of his element when confronted with a girl that has most of her shit under wraps. He eventually does develop true affection for her, but he has to give up wanting to be a savior for it. It's part of the theme of the route, anon, knowing when to compromise your ideals for happiness
>>117653299 No, she gets jealous of anyone paying attention to Shirou In fact, the only person that she doesn't get jealous of is Taiga until F/HA, where she's harassing poor Taiga every scene they're together
All she wants is for him to break it. She wants him to focus on her, hates it when he's in danger trying to follow his ideal, and thinks about putting him in the condition where he can't even move so he won't play hero.
Of all the heroines, Sakura is the least supportive of his beliefs. She is actively against them. Now I'm not saying that's wrong of her, she just doesn't want her insane husbando to die. But stop being another delusional Sakurafag. She never supported him.
>>117653210 Shirou finds both an answer in UBW and HF; he definitely finds way more of an answer in UBW than he does in Fate. He's confronted with the issues with his ideals, and reaches a conclusion where he still chooses to follow his path, but this time not alone, because he has Rin with him all the way giving him a hand.
In HF, it's more him personally confronting the problems with his ideal. Sakura isn't the one actively discussing the matter with him.
>>117653428 No, it's a beyond retarded point of view. There's nothing sexist with Shirou being calm into bloodfort while Rin loses her shit, it's a scene that shows different character traits. There's nothing in it about Rin being a girl and Shirou being a man, the only sexist person here is the one posting that shit in the first place. 7/10, triggered.
>>117653428 They clearly are a secondary because they don't understand 1) Rin's character 2) Shirou's character and 3) How they tie in with each other Just because they read the VN, doesn't mean they understand it And just with that paragraph description of this episode, it's blatantly fucking clear they have no idea about anything
>>117653330 Because between density, hax powers, not dying when she's killed, a fucked-up joyless personal life, and 'assets', Bazett is like the absolute perfect match for Shirou. You're right, though.
>>117653481 Fuck off faggot. You're intentionally going to places where people post nothing buy dumb shit so you can get mad at it and repost it here. Fuck off to /v/ if you want to do that, you'll be in good company.
>>117653345 >Tohsaka's never seen dead bodies and Shirou's broken inside, but it couldn't possibly be that causing her to fall apart and him to take the lead for the first time in a dangerous situation. Nope, not their inherent characters being developed in this scene, just sexism. Doesn't matter that Tohsaka had his back the last 2 times, this time it's sexist.
>>117653372 >she just doesn't want her insane husbando to die I remember something in her route to the effect of
>hey senpai >I knew you were practicing magic in the shed all this time >That was so dangerous, it could have killed you >Oh btw I never told you about this because I didn't want you to know I was a mage and so we could have a normal household >Your life is more important? But what about muh feelings?
That last one didn't happen, Shirou accepted her anyway for some reason. Both of them lost any and all sympathy for me right there.
>>117652068 Assassin is the second to last boss in Extra
It wasn't Hassan, but rather someone that doesn't suck.
The strongest Hassan is summoned in Fate/Strange. She has every NP that every other Hassan has, rolled into one. She has to be the strongest to compete in a war that has Gilgamesh, Enkidu, and Disease summoned.
Fate, admittedly, was very boring. That said, Saber is presented as a very sympathetic heroine. She understands Shirou fully, and there's a very deep bond there. She's less of a lover, more of a complete soulmate. Even in the other routes, the two have a very deep bond. There's not much to be learned from one another, they already share one mind. Love is secondary to the fact that they're two extensions of one idea.
Rin has probably the most traditional romance among the three. There's mutual learning, cooperation, chemistry. They're different so there's room to grow. They overcome obstacles together, and the bond grows from the surface down and slowly reaches deeper rather than erupting from the core. They're different people and inspire change and progress in one another. Cooperation and putting aside your differences. More effort and progression there than the other routes.
Sakura's route is the most one sided. She starts of with a one-sided love. Then it turns into a one-sided quest to save the damsel in distress. It brings out the best in Shirou but really, you never see Sakura change him, and they're not so deeply connected by shared ideals either. There's no real progress in their love, there's progress as a result of the relationship.
>>117653683 >and raise eyebrows No, because people don't notice subtle things, especially when they hate the MC for any reason, logical or not. If Shirou remains in the house and avoids the war, she's deemed an idiot because he doesn't want to fight. But if he decides to actually fight he's deemed an idiot for wanting to try. And when he happens to have to directly step into combat and finds himself miraculously living, instead of asking "why?" they just go "oh hurr, it's plot armor, Shirou just can do it because he's the mc".
>Rin Tohsaka’s first SG. Rin herself describes it as “a queenly mode of behavior, imposed by one’s nobility, completely natural for a leader.” Indeed, its meaning is unclear.
>Another name for it is “templation.” It comes from the word “template,” and was a popular slang term in 21st century Japan.
>Humans may, due to various emotions and circumstances, reject thinks they like saying they don’t like them, or accept things they hate saying they don’t mind them.
>The opposite of good will isn’t ill will, but rather indifference.
>Liking is the other side of hating. Hating is the other side of liking. This sort of “dishonesty” is an ailment common to all people. It’s nothing particularly shameful.
>However, there’s also the case where the more pride one has the haughtier one behaves towards someone one’s interested in, and engages in contradictory behavior. Of course we wouldn’t dare to say who, though.
>This templation shifts from the simply dishonest attitude to an actively malicious attitude, a condition particular to girls.
>Their behavior when they act with pride is called “tsuntsun,” and when their need to be liked by the other party reaches a boiling point they’ll turn “deredere,” and the two together are called “tsundere.”
>Of course we wouldn’t dare to say who, but,
>Some call this a bittersweet SG, for it is the fate of templation to disappear when love is fulfilled. A certain priest says this of it: “Once she confesses to the target of her affections, she is no longer ‘tsun,’ or anything else, but a contemptible impure thing.”
>Unfortunately, all that lies past graduation from this SG is becoming an silly couple so wrapped up in their love they don’t even notice that people are watching. If you are a well-meaning third party, you will probably have various thoughts of your own about this, but please watch over them kindly.
Nasu basically summing up the future of Rin and Shirou's relationship.
>>117653841 If Kuzuki finds him unprepared he'll easily win. Time alter may be able to help but Kuzuki at that point probably can easily avoid bullets. If it's Kiritsugu planning the attack things will probably be quite different, but in that case he would take care of Caster instead of the master.
>>117653983 Well I was saying mostly being able to do quad accel and shit like that >>117653995 Kuzuki doesn't use magic, the Origin bullets wouldn't do any more than a normal bullet would do ASSUMING that'd he'd even be hit by a bullet
>>117654140 Not really. He's a one trick pony and could beat a lot of opponents that way, but Servants like Hassan, for example, could beat him by virtue of being able to observe him and figure out his trick.
He's sort of like Shirou, ridiculously strong with his single trick, but absolutely useless without it.
>>117654130 >Though I guess Kotomine is a clear winner.
>Q: Between Kotomine, Bazett, Kuzuki, Melty Blood’s Miyako, and Kishima Kouma, who’d be the top 3 in a purely hand to hand fight with no weapons or magecraft?
>A: I’m excluding Kouma since his existence itself has become a mystery. >And even if he didn’t have that nature, he’s like an athlete caught by drug testing. >Out of the four left, the winner in pure strength is Bazett. >If it’s limited to one match and a surprise attack, then it’s Kuzuki. >And if it’s the Kotomine from ten years ago, he’s stronger than Bazett overall.
Notice he didn't even bother addressing Kuzuki vs Kotomine Prime, he just left it with "First match, Kuzuki wins out of the remianing three no matter what". Kotomine Prime beats Bazett, but stats don't mean anything against the Assassins fist (first match only).
>>117654132 One, Kuzuki isn't the one using the magic It's why the origin bullet Kerry shot at Kirei faded because it used the command seal's magic, not Kirei's And two, >>117654153 Caster is from the age of gods, she doesn't have magic circuits
>>117652068 Because Masters seem to misuse them. Zouken was quite proficent with his one but he also was controlling or at least partially influencing the Shadow so I don't know how much that counts. It's pretty agreed upon that Kiritsugu with an assassin class servant would just wreck everyone's shit.
Except that an experienced person can easily tell Kuzuki is not a regular human. Saber notices his regulated breathing and high level body control the first time she sees him. There's no way Kotomine would just dismiss him as a nobody.
>>117654305 I'm not that sure re: Kiritsugu and Assassin. You have a Servant and a Master basically doing the same thing; very one-dimensional, very narrow in its application. A strong, highly visible tank like a Saber is actually a great match for him - somebody to take the limelight while he works in the background; a top-notch distraction to make one ignore the shadows. The problem is the Saber he ended up with.
>>117649095 The picture is not attempting to reveal inner turmoil; rather, it reveals a complete lack of inner turmoil in a situation that warrants distress, fear, uncertainty etc. That's the disturbing part. It's a motherfucking thousand yard stare, which you only normally find on infantrymen who've seen months of nonstop combat at the front lines of a world war.
>>117654423 Kiritsugu's intelligent enough to be able to create his own diversions. Either he'd have someone like Maiya do it or he'd manipulate the other masters into doing it.
Besides, Kiritsugu and Assassin wouldn't necessarily be exactly the same. He may have been able to draw Servants away from Masters expertly, but he rarely made efforts to conceal himself from the Masters themselves. An actual Assassin strikes me as someone that you wouldn't even know was an Assassin until you were already dead
>>117649578 A question for anyone who knows: would the Counter Guardians make an appearance in the setting of Notes, or are they excluded from that for some reason? Because if there's any time period in the setting where humanity is getting fucked and needs saving, it's certainly when the notAngels are coming to Earth to wipe the slate clean of life.
>>117654674 Broken, not necessarily insane. He is a shell of a human being; a shattered wreck of PTSD and survivor's guilt that managed to find itself a threadbare facade of normalcy to hide behind. If the discussion with Ayako is any indication, he's terrified of the prospect of people ever finding out just what a monstrous nothingness lurks beneath the veneer of being a functional young man.
>>117654674 Do you know Hanekawa from Bakemonogatari? Shirou has different reasons for it, but his personal problems and coping mechanisms are basically the same as hers. He's a normal, even laudable, person a first glance but is completely insane on the inside.
>>117654952 Rin is easily the least broken person around Shirou other than maybe Taiga, and Archer basically tells her to be with Shirou and try to rein in the crazy. And she does. I can't talk shit about her in the slightest.
Why did Shirou turn into swords? How could Shirou improve so much at swordfighting despite doing no practice between last time and this time? How was Shirou healed at the start of this episode? Why was Rin so scared when Shirou wasn't? Which Servant killed Rider? Why didn't he/she kill Shinji? Why couldn't they sense that another Servant was in the building? How could another Servant enter the field? Who was Rider, and why didn't she use her Noble Phantasm? Why did Sakura faint when she is magical? Why are they ignoring what Gen-sama established in Zero? Why is Shinji evil? Why did Shirou waste his command spell when all Saber did was kill a couple of low level familiars?
>>117655246 Most servants have bullshit abiltities. Its not like servants with shit stats get the most bullshit. Look at Gil. He has great stats and an entire closet full of some of the most bullshit bullshit there is.
>>117655207 >Why did Shirou turn into swords? He is a sword >How could Shirou improve so much at swordfighting despite doing no practice between last time and this time? His muscles are already toned and near optimal, all he was lacking was a proper method >How was Shirou healed at the start of this episode? Avalon >Why was Rin so scared when Shirou wasn't? Hasn't seen many dead bodies >Which Servant killed Rider? Why didn't he/she kill Shinji? Caster's master >Why couldn't they sense that another Servant was in the building? How could another Servant enter the field? Another servant did not enter >Who was Rider, and why didn't she use her Noble Phantasm? Sakura from the past, before she reincarnated. >Why did Sakura faint when she is magical? Why are they ignoring what Gen-sama established in Zero? She's low on mana at the moment >Why is Shinji evil? He's a dick >Why did Shirou waste his command spell when all Saber did was kill a couple of low level familiars? He joined the war to save people, this is his bread and butter. There's no better time than when lives are on the line.
I don't know where people are getting Gilgamesh having great stats from, or that being the deciding factor for him.
Even if he was all E rank, he'd still be the king because the only thing that matters is his NP. His stats are above average, but they don't blow others out of the water, nor have they ever so much mattered. When's the last time that Gilgamesh's stats have decided the fight?
Everything is just his NP
Stats are something people latch onto too much at times, but they're hardly ever what decides the fight.
>>117655318 Gilgamesh is also the oldest and most powerful Heroic Spirit. He is a far cry from what your usual Archer is whether in terms of statistics or abilities. The same would also apply for Heracles summoned as an Archer or any of the other first class Heroic Spirits. Robin Hood, on the other hand, is a good example of what you could statistically expect from an Archer that isn't a world famous demigod or completely unknown faker.
>>117655493 The point though is that Archer is the class of "Shit stats, based NP". Having "Above average" stats, AND the best NP is like saying "My weakness is that I can only life 20 lb more than the body builder class, but luckily I get an AK-47 to make up for that".
>>117655539 >If all you needed to win fights were fancy moves, Caster would be a top servant.
>C rank NP >Most classes have magic resistance
He doesn't just have fancy tricks, he has all the fancy tricks. Caster is a failure since many people can be immune to her shit, however no one can be immune to Gilgamesh, and his "tricks" power is not dependent at all on his own power.
Going through secondary stuff I found one guy that's convinced Shirou's never actually seen a dead body (Because Kiritsugu saved him before he saw any) and he just knew people were alive because his structural analysis let him determine their bodily if they were alive or not instantly so he didn't panic.
>>117655586 He would get cut down in an instant, He wouldn't get to use anything because he would die too fast. Even Gil needs some strength, agility and endurance to stay in the fight for a few seconds to use his shit.
Q: What was the sport that Saber said she liked, that used swords to play on large stretches of land? Could it be golf? Or maybe polo? A: It was an ancestor of golf. Please think of it as “something like golf that was around before golf was conceived.”
Q: Even in Rin’s route, Saber voluntarily destroyed the Holy Grail. Did this time also break her contract with the World, and make it impossible for her to exist as a Heroic Spirit? A: It was a flawed Grail, so you could say it was halfway done. Since Saber reconsidered her life and found her own path... this time, perhaps she could become a Heroic Spirit on her own.
Q: Around what age did Archer (Emiya Shirou) form a contract with the World as a Guardian? A: From his late twenties to early thirties.
Q: When and where did Archer (Emiya Shirou) acquire his red overcoat (a holy shroud)? Or, was the shroud he used in Sakura’s route an original one? A: When he began working as a freelance magus in his twenties, he received it from a certain curry-loving member of the clergy... now that would make a nice story, it would.
Q: Was Zouken branded with Command Seals after he summoned True Assassin through Kojirou’s body? Or, not being human (and a bunch of worms that infest Sakura), did he not receive them? Also, was this the proper way of summoning the regular Assassin? A: Even though Assassin’s Command Spells were fake, Caster still had them, so additional ones were not created. True Assassin’s summoning ritual was most certainly outside the norm.
Q: In your original manuscript, does Shinji become a better person after he survives Rin’s route? And does have the potential to find happiness...? A: No fundamental changes, but since a great weight was lifted off his back (his obsession with sorcery), he'll probably be able to enjoy life as a fussy, loudmouthed, smarter-than-average, troublesome person.
>>117655630 Something that was used like a proper trump card so the opponent could not adjust to it enough to find out whether there was a way to beat it.
Something that was actually used in a smart way, but just activating it at the start of battle and going "I win" would have likely lost Saber the match hard if that's all she relied on. She knew she actually had to play smart here. That's the reason she didn't just activate it in the first second of seeing him and going "Haha, for you see I am now immune to everything".
>>117653740 This guy gets it. I really like the way the Saber/Shirou relationship work, HF really hammer in that whole "soulmate" thing, and Ufotable is doing a fairly good job at depicting the nature of their relationship.
>>117655753 She doesn't know that though, which is why she opts for the strategy that she does. I don't blame her either, considering all of the other bullshit Gilgamesh has in his vault. Aside from all of the weapons and his ancient Indian UFO, he also apparently has a NP that can block the multi-dimensional refraction thing that Tsubame Gaeshi does as well as another one that can nullify Gawain's Numeral of the Saint.
>>117655849 The only reason she didn't use it right at the start is because it's not much of a story if she completely wrecks the big bad in one second. That's it. It's an unbeatable item that makes the user immortal while blocking literally everything for "reasons".
>>117655885 You could have made it into a story by having Gil use it as well since his bullshit treasure stores apparently contained it at some point. They're supposed to have contained everything, right?
>>117655991 They contain everything that's the product of human ingenuity. Both Excalibur and Avalon were not forged by human hands, which is why he does not have a prototype for either like he does with most other things. There are a few other heroes to whom this also applies, most notably Karna from CCC.
>>117649578 >His turning point was when he saw the same people that he saved were trying to kill him He didn't care about that at all. What broke him was that as a Counter Guardian he was forced to betray his ideals forever.
Anyone who says "There's absolutely no weakness or anything that can be done about it" is bullshitting at best or wanking at worst. Truth is we really don't know, exactly because she used it correctly. No counter measure could have been made because it was used right.
Just because an item was never beaten in the story is it invincible? Does that mean Rule Breaker or Unlimited Blade Works are invincible since we never saw them beaten in the story?
There's no such thing as an almighty NP. However if you use it right, then even if it was D rank it will surely work correctly with the right strategy. Avalon isn't almighty just because we never saw it defeated, that only means it was used correctly. Whoever shows their trump card first will lose out, and Gilgamesh showed his shit first.
>>117656165 Guy says he didn't blame the guy for betraying him, couldn't be helped. Archer says he was the one who messed things up between them. He saved him before, they were outlaw buddies for a bit, but then Archer went too far with his JUSTICE, and his friend ratted him out to the cops.
It needs not be said what happened next, his life was ended by the court. Not because he killed others and needed to atone with his life like he wanted, but simply because he would not become theirs.
>>117656259 When i see a counter I'll consider your argument but since it breezed off the holy grail darkness and the sword of kings all at once so easily i'll assume its unbeatable unless you can find a flaw for me. Oh it also healed Shirou who was stabbed by Cu's weapon which should be unhealable.
>>117656376 It's obvious in exchange of a big budget from Aniplex, ufotable must accept any new artists that Sony want to promote or popularized.
Usually popular artists are chosen for OP and ED to promote the anime, but Fate series does not need that so Sony just put new singers in it so Fate popularity can promote the artists and increase CD sales. That's why ufotable always gets generic songs for their OP.
>>117656709 >Gilgamesh = has a sword that cut down the world and destroy precious dreams and delusions.
It's the sword that created the world
>Enuma Elish (The Star of Creation That Split Heaven and Earth) >Gilgamesh's final Noble Phantasm which reveals creation--the beginning of everything. >The severing of space which comes from the Sword of Rupture, Ea, the sword crowned with the name of a god from Mesopotamian mythology. >The god, Ea, is believed to be the quasi-deification of the power of the planet which turned, smashed, and stabilized the surface of the earth when it was still covered in gas and seas of magma, during the primordial stage of the earth. >Many gods began building nations after the the primordial earth was stabilized into a world where living creatures could live, but Ea is a god who performed the act of building of planet before that. >Gilgamesh's sword, which is crowned with Ea's name, changes space itself by agitating space-time through the rotation of three layers of giant power fields. >It's true power is not something to be used against a single living creature but against the world. Even among the many Noble Phantasms possessed by Servants, it is one considered to be at the top, the sword "which tore apart the world."
Deification of the creation of the planet, by tearing apart the two realms thus separating them. That which reveals the face of the planet, the primordial sea.
Alright, I finished Fate/Zero recently and I have a number of questions regarding this guy
Why did it never cross his mind to just use Berserker to kill Zouken, or, failing that, destroy the worm room and get Sakura to safety? I know Zouken's worms wouldn't allow Kariya to act against him, but that obviously didn't extend to simple speech or commands since he verbalized a desire to kill Zouken at one point.
Was his butthurt about losing Aoi to Tokiomi so fucking massive that he couldn't stow it long enough to ask Tokiomi if he really knew what had happened to Sakura? Did he even give a shit about anything other than his vengeance?
He was related to Zouken, grew up around him, and got to know him enough to know that the man was a right cunning bastard with nothing good in mind for anyone but himself. Was he really so stupid to think that Zouken would keep his promise, even after all that? Did he really believe he could just take Sakura and walk away? What was his exit strategy, his plan for after he won?
Why in god's name would he go along with Zouken and summon the Berserker class? Being the incompetent, ill-trained mage he is, would it not make more sense for him to try and summon someone into Caster class so he wouldn't have to kill himself by expending mana because Caster could just generate mana on its own? Why didn't he even make the suggestion?
>>117656811 Avalon exists in the Nasuverse as another dimention, the one in which the elementals such as the fairies live. The sheath grants its bearer a short entry to that realm and allows no outside intervention whatever that might be.
On another note, it's funny how a "personal dream" as you say beat "has a sword that cut down the world and destroy precious dreams and delusions.". Must've been hard to cope with.
>>117656984 >Being the incompetent, ill-trained mage he is, would it not make more sense for him to try and summon someone into Caster class so he wouldn't have to kill himself by expending mana because Caster could just generate mana on its own? Why didn't he even make the suggestion?
Kariya is a retard all around but Caster class is a tricky one for magi since the Caster servant summons are much better maga than their summoner, they are prone to rebellion.
I like Saber and Gil. I think Gate of Babylon > Excalibur (as ingenuity of men can trump ideals) but Avalon > Ea (because a personal dream is stronger than an impersonal dream-cutter. Sure Ea and Avalon had other more specific traits, but those are what they stand for Gil and Arturia).
>>117656990 World-breaker effect and beamspam effect are pretty night and day, and when he activates the former its a rather noticeable difference in power and shattering. Beam-mode is nothing but s large beam for the most part, Anti-World mode will literally shatter the world around them if used. He's the King of Carelessness for a reason, because he never does anything right due to his vanity. Almost like a shiny version of Matou Shinji, except he actually has as much talent as he claims.
>A Servant with the titles of King of Vanity, King of Blundering, Gold Pika, ORESAMA/WARESAMA. >Gilgamesh, without mistake, the strongest of the Servants. If he only wasn't so damned careless and cocky. >Special skill is the "word of the King" - the ability to use a 1st person pronoun that is written as "ware" and said as "ore". Basically the "I'm the king of the world, foolish mongrels" kind of pronoun. >If Tohsaka makes stupid mistakes, this guy screws up just because of his vanity. >The one that showed up in the broad bridge scene in hollow ataraxia, AKA GILGAMESH NAKED (like how Naked Jehuty is the strongest of the Jehuty versions), was one of the few times where he fought seriously (in the once in a lifetime serious mode kind of way). >An asshole but everybody still loves him, just like they love Raymond. Also popular among the kiddies and has golden fishing rods. Currently a gag character. Reads Shounen Jump too. Probably the weekly one.
>>117657103 >Ea is not anti-world in the sense that it is anti-planet. Of course, Anti-Planet is a different classification
>Ea is anti-world in the sense that it has to do with marbles.
That's entirely wrong though; it's not something that exists because reality marbles exist, rather it's Anti-World because it is supposed to target the world itself.
This will become obvious for you if you look into the other Anti-World NPs out there. They're all things that target the world around them, rather than "One person, one castle, one fortress, or an army".
There's between four and seven Anti-World NPs at the moment, look into it.
>>117657097 >since the Caster servant summons are much better maga than their summoner, they are prone to rebellion.
Caster would have never rebelled if the Clock Tower douchebag didn't get jealous and actually wasted a Command Spell to restrict her powers.
Casters aren't tricky at all.
The only actual tricky servants are the super moralfag servants or the servants that are reducing your lifespan by the second aka Berserkers because you may end up wasting a Command Spell trying to control your Berserker
>>117657165 Ea = Shatters the world around, revealing the truth C.C.C = Rewrites the world to create an absolute result Queen's Glass Game = The world will loop forever, the world will return to the beginning forever, the children's game will always continue. The conception of the wish of the master, who wished to keep playing. Sarasvati Meltout = Originally Anti-Mind, but within the Information world of cyber-space it has become Anti-World. A tool that erodes the minds, morality, senses of all around dissolving entire communities into nothingness. Absorbing and melting all things, like that scene in End of Evangelion. Hanging Gardens of Babylon = I guess it counts as a different world/space upon creation?
>>117657186 I finished reading the Fate route last night, I'm starting UBW now. Fate was so fucking shit jesus fucking christ. Saber's character development was utter shit, and Shirou only improved slightly towards the end. Please tell me Rin will make this all better, I can't stand another "my inner issues have waited all this time for a random japanese kid to solve them in a matter of minutes". Also, why is Kirei so based?
>>117657629 Nah, it's actually more Shirou's issues at play than Rin's in UBW, and by no means does she solve all of them.
UBW is basically the best route because of it. It cleverly develops the two main characters, it has good action, and it's open-ended about its philosophy without seeming heavy handed or pretentious. It and Zero are the best you can expect from Fate. Zero gives Kirei top billing, so that might be part of it
>>117657720 Still think Rider could have survived that since it is not like she slices a lot of her neck off to summon Pegasus in the first place but maybe Shinji is just that shit of a Master that she doesn't have the stamina to recover.
I find it weird to think that Caren and Shiriou hanging out. Seems a pretty fucking dysfunctional pairing. Wish i could see more of them beyond Eclipse. But fucking sadly never. Bazett though would be a pretty good bro. Caren not as much considering it's Shirou.
Should Nasu canonize Keikenchi's Hideyoshi like he did with Okita and Nobunaga?
>He starts off with really low stats, but with the way one of his skills works, he'll get 4 As and 2 EXs for stats a week after summoning, but those drop over a week.
>Not trying to say that i agree with it or anything, but the "justification" is the story about how Hideyoshi went into a no-name farmer into the most important person in japan into a crazy old man
>Not really scrapped or rejected. More like printed without getting Kinoko's permission first?
>STR: E, CON: E, AGI: D, MGI: E, LUC: C, NP: E >Due to the effects of the skill "Child of the Sun", his parameters continue to rise each day for seven days >Seventh day (Tenkabito) >STR: A, CON: A, AGI: A+, MGI: A, LUC: EX, NP: EX >Incidentally, after that, he goes into the useless old geezer mode, and his stats continue to drop for seven days.
>For his NP: >On the first day (rank E), he's able to render the "armament NP" (me - I'm guessing actual equipment rather than some ability) of his opponent unusuable for an very short period of time if his opponent fails his Luck Check. >On the fourth day (rank B), under the same conditions, he's able to make his opponent's "armament NP" his own. (I'm assuming the same conditions is referring to the opponent failing his luck roll) >On the seventh day, if he makes a successful Luck Check (his luck's EX), he can unlock the true name of the NP. (Also assuming this is talking about the true name of the other guy's NP and not his own, but who knows)
Shirou would have asked too many uses tins and made the issues she has with her body harder to hide. Considering she does risk her life for him a few times in HF, it's pretty much assured she cares about his safety. There was that whole internal monologue about protecting that clumsy boy she found undee the setting sun being one of her only wishes.
It's why she always gives such cryptic advice in the other routes.
Besides, think logically, she herself knows how to activate her circuits, but think about how Rin taught Shirou. It was a well involved thing and she even gave him an aid to make the switch in his body. She doesn't have the resources or spare magical energy like Rin does to effectively teach him with her self-taught methods, nor instruments to gauge the proper way to teach him. If she can't help him with a better way to do things, it's not like it'll stop him from doing the same thing by just telling him it's dangerous. Because he is crazy enough to ignore advice.
Further, Zouken. He is monitoring her all the time, and knows when she starts using magical energy, which she would need to teach Shirou. So Zouken would eventually investigate.
She has a lot to deal with, and knows better than to get involved when getting involved will make things worse instead of better.
Now, if she told Rin, then Rin would wonder why a magus heir can't teach a novice how to activate their circuits. Then a whole other kettle of fish happens.
So she really has no good ways of going about it. And it is in her nature to be extra careful about things, for good or ill. Not that she doesn't care about him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason why Shirou is able to use strengthening when he fights against servant and not on other occasions is because the things he strengthens are going to be used as weapons, right?
Shirou didn't like how she handled the janken though. That, and the three heroines have a ceasefire agreement going on and they pretty much wanted her out (Saber looked to her a a rival until she seemed like she would take her position as Shirou's bodyguard away).
Besides, she didn't clear up any misconceptions about being a former sealing agent, and for all intents and purposes, it's a house full of heretics ready for the sealing stamp. Of course they had an aversion to Bazett from the beginning, she seemed standoffish due to her social retardation, and only explained things once Shirou came back.
>>117653372 Not quite. In HF it is seen she finds how Shirou and his mindset beautiful and she even begins to hate herself when she sees how he is breaking himself for her. There are a lot of scenes about that point. But well, a whole lot of Sakura's business is self-loathing too.
>>117660981 Yes and no. Shirou basically says that he can only use it during combat because he could die at any moment and Kiritsugu told him that being a good Magus means you have to put your life on the line to see any results.
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