Which Emiya is the most powerful one? Mostly between Shirou at the end of UBW or Shriou right before the last fights in Heaven's Feel. Which one would win in a fight?
I believe it would be Heaven's Feel Shriou just because he is powered by pure insanity and Sparks Linear High shows how much of that he has in him.
As you say, most likely Shirou at the end of Heaven's Feel, but that's not saying much given that he's on a death timer. On the other hand, UBW's Shirou got his reality marble a decade early and he's only going to get stronger.
I also think you would have to take into account how much HF's shriou's magic kills him. Eh UBW shirou has more control over his power but HF's shriou probably would do some serious damage
HF is weaker than UBW. At UBW he is linked with tohsakas magic and he isnt falling apart. Sure in HF he gets loads of knowledge aswell but he cant get the RM and shirou already learned loads from just watching archer fight. The only difference is that in HF you can see shirou going till the bitter end, in UBW you cant see it. If UBW shirou would be pushed he would probably be powered by insanity just like HF< but then with marble/
Without word of god it's hard to make a sensible argument, but I have to say that I don't think that UBW's Shirou would be able to kill Saber alter, since he didn't have enough access to Archer's knowledge/combat experience. But then, one might argue that HF Shirou >= Saber alter > UBW Shirou > HF Shirou, so it's all kinda hard to decide.
well saber did recommend that UBW shirou picked up on archer his fighting methods when sparring against her. Im sure not having a meltdown is more useful than slightly more combat experience. Remember shirou had to keep the flow limited because if he got too much knowledge in one go he would die instantly
I'll admit that it's all based on how much more HF's Shirou got from Archer than UBW's Shirou. Plus I felt the question was about "who would win in a 1v1". UBW's Shirou is hand-down stronger in the long-run, but HF's Shirou might have a slight edge in a short, decisive exchange. Well, he dies after drawing too much from Archer's arm anyway, so I can't call that a victory I guess. Damn, he might even die once his Kanshou/Byakuya combo fails to hit, so it's all-or-nothing for HF's Shirou, I'd say the odds are 60% they would both die, 40% UBW Shirou would win, so, in terms of actually surviving the fight, UBW Shirou might have an edge.
youre looking at it the wrong way.
UBW shirou wins if he can follow his ideal. HF shirou wins if he can be with sakura.
naturally UBW has a chance to follow his dream and HF shirou cant
HF is clearly stronger, he has superhuman stats and can beat Servants, something UBW Shirou himself admits he can't do (Gil being the exception) even with the power of UBW. But a battle between them would end in a draw because HF Shirou can't fight without activating certain self-destruction.
Unless Gil gets somehow done in by a single, ass-pull powerful projection (like Nine Lives vs berserker), the answer's no. HF's Shirou could manage 2-3 projections before his body broke down (and that's talking about swords that put the least strain on his body), so I can't imagine a way for him to get past Gilgamesh's sword spam.
Rin linked Shirou could only use her mana for a few minutes before the Reality Marble dissipates. I'd day the best way to evaluate either is the long term progression. Once Sakura fixes up his circuits post HF or gets him a new body and they get situated, the two are about equal to UBW Shirou, since he already has the theory down and just needs to practice.
Both Shirou's in game are too unstable because they are just coming into their powers.
A more interesting question is if they were able to 2 v 2 ten years down the line. Rin and UBW Shirou vs. Sakura and HF True Shirou (no Rider included).
Power-level wise I think Shirou with his UBW would beat Shirou with Archer's arm. Shirou that can trace Avalon and Caliburn would be up there if he can use it because Avalon is kind of ridiculous.
I like to think of it as a time progression rather than different paths equaling different powers. UBW Shirou is the closest to his prime.
That said Miyu Shirou, if he counts, traced a divine mountain-cutting sword to use as a ramp. He's the closest to his prime.
They do effectively the same thing, except while inside UBW all Shirou's swords are right there. Gil has to summon his leaving a slight advantage for Shriou.
Like when Gil is about to use Ea Shirou just slices that arm off while he's pulling it out.
They may be garbage, but due to Avenger he can just keep projecting them without end. It's just all about surviving until opponent can't fight anymore. Though I agree one shouldn't expect much from Avenger possessing Shirou. It's not like it's Shirou who is fighting.
Without a doubt
Fate shirou would win.
Kidding aside, HF shirou would definitely win. The stuff he pulls off in that route is something the other two cant do, not to mention being on par with servants due to archers arm.
However, post ubw shirou would definitely be the strongest in the end. He's already accumulated a fuckload of experience and skills from himself and is only going to get better, meanwhile, post hf shirou is has to start over since his power was mostly borrowed
I don't know, but it's a parody of the fan pics where a reporter interviews a pair and one of them answers and the other blushes.
*booru tag: special_feeling_(meme)
Shirou has a harem.
In the short term, 100% HF Shirou. He was actually on par with servants in battle, while UBW Shirou notably and confirmed in the data-book could not hope to match any other servant except Gilgamesh.
People rate UBW Shirou too highly while not getting the fact that he didn't match Gilgamesh and Archer because he was servant tier now, but because one was greatly weakened and lost in ideals, and the other it was entirely compatibility.
HF Shirou is full on Super human, can run 50 KPH, fall out of a three story building without injury, but if the battle goes on awhile he will burn out a lot faster perhaps. You ask which one is stronger, it is HF, but that's at a cost.
Why does Shinji think anyone could possibly assume he killed Rider?
You don't need a databook, Shirou states it himself in the fight against Gil that even with unlimited blades, all he can manage against a normal Servant is being a small distraction at best.
In terms of physical ability HF Shirou is superior, however in terms of projection bullshit UBW Shirou has a massive edge. If it came down to a fight between the two, UBW Shirou would win due to the stupidly massive advantage access to the Reality Marble gives him in addition to not self destructing from projecting.
Because he's a special snowflake. The thing that was allowing him to exercise that specialness is now gone and he's in a situation where any other mage would kill him right then and there. tl;dr he is scared shitless
So what was Sakura wearing on her arm at the end of HA? It looked like part of the angry manjew dress but what was it for? Does she have to wear it or else she can't use magecraft or is it just like a mystic code or something?
HF Shirou has a more impressive projection track record than UBW Shirou. All UBW Shirou does is spam K&B and one small scale sword rain, while HF Shirou activates the Nine Lives skill, uses K&B special technique, shoots a Broken Phantasm, etc. Setting UBW up takes time and only Gil is retarded enough to fuck around during the chant.
But why is he denying that he killed Rider? I doubt that would be the first thing that went through anybody's head when looking at Rider's corpse. He should just be begging not to die, claiming I DIDN'T MURDER HER is a complete non sequitur.
When people are terrified out of their skulls they get irrational. And for cowards like Shinji "it's not my fault" is probably a pretty instinctual response when something goes wrong.
Why does everyone say that UBW is weak? Reading the complete material makes it out to be pretty damn broken
>The majority of the weapons persevered in the reality marble are Noble Phantasms of Heroic Spirits copied through projection sorcery, each possessing deadly powers.
>However, the “projection” sorcery he wields is quite special, as it is able to duplicate weapons, including all the components, to near perfection. In addition, during duplication, he can even read the wielder’s skills, which allows him to gain all kinds of Noble Phantasms and combat skills.
Seriously though, if Archer is able to utilize thousands of NPs, why didn't he just pull out various ones to counter people instead of using the same 5 weapons? I guess it would make the fights shown a lot less interesting if he pulled out a counter every fight.
Rin points out he can still summon his reality marble, it'll probably be more powerful than before. His swords were fake and empty like his ideals, now he's got an original purpose.
>Which Emiya is the most powerful one?
The one that gets things done
Kanshou and Bakuya are already amazing, as we saw in Sparks Liner High. The only reason he'd need another NP is for utility, which he does with Rho Aius.
That said, if he mastered his reality marble and used the swords as more than just projectiles, he'd be a force to be reckoned with. Imagine ten mini-excaliburs (there ought to be a similar, weaker weapon in there) using their NPs at the same time from all sides, along with a direct K&B Sparks Liner High bullshit attack. What can you even do against that?
Miyuverse Shirou is the only one we know who leads directly into his Archer
An obscure Babylonian/Sumerian god apparently
In Fate it's a mountain-sized sword used by a Babylonian god
>Fake and empty
Fuck off Sakurafag, his ideals are beautiful and are the WHOLE reason UBW even exists. He can't summon it in HF.
Once he loses archers arm HF Shirou is weaker than fate Shirou he never even had his circuits opened.
He does have weapons similar to EA and Excalibur
>Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though
yeah K&B are good, but it would have been cool to see him switch weapons constantly to confuse the opponent with the different techniques of each
I know everyone hates it now, but why did they like DEEN/Stay QUALITY back in 2006? I remember liking it and not getting exasperated at everything Shirou did but in hindsight I can't imagine why.
>childhood crush died
>both kids became messed up, one of them simply because Kerry was a manchild
>his sloppy teachings caused his son to almost kill himself every night
>dude wore a fucking suit and autist coat 24/7, Emiya more like Euphorya
Switching weapons would only serve as a gimmick, K&B and the fighting style Archer created for them are the ideal fighting style for the physique, stat spread and innate skills of Shirous all around the multiverse.
What are you agreeing with me?
He can't summon it in HF but he can use a little of it because he's linked with archers arm.
It signifys that Shirou hasn't betrayed his ideals. The RM's function is the same however.
No he hasn't.
You should realy have payed more attention.
MoS Shirou is Kiritsugu, EMIYA is just butthurt that his life of "save everybody" ideology lead to nothing and he now must kill and be summoned over and over again because of his actions.
He regreated his life after his death.
Neither Archer nor HF Shirou believe in the ideal, what's the difference? Archer is the sword of the majority, HF is the sword of Sakura and UBW is the sword of everybody. They're all swords.
>Archer has betrayed his ideals
>He became a Kiritsugu
What the fuck am I reading
He projects 2 EX level NPs (one of which wasn't even a sword) with little damage to himself, where HF Shirou fucking dies after projecting the shitty E rank twin swords 3 times.
It is not as you seem to think, as the strength and technique of them had cut through Berserker in the Archer vs Berserker fight and must have landed some kills, as not all of them were BPs
>Second, there is the mark of a cut on his neck.
>Fourth, he is slashed from his shoulder to his groin.
>It does not even need to be said that every one of the attacks was by a different method.
And before someone states that he BP'd a sword, slashed Berserker and then dropped it before it exploded, it is stated that BPs explode on contact.
>Emiya’s trump card is firing copied Noble Phantasms as arrows – “Broken Phantasm”. On impact, the magical force will explode, generating overwhelming destructive power.
He dismissed his ideal of "everyone can be saved"
That doesn't mean he fully threw himself into the other direction playing a numbers game with people's lives
He's just being a normal selfish person pursuing his own selfish goals in UBW
Cuts comes from DEEN Overedge which somehow become A rank with power of bullshit
>A version of Kanshou & Bakuya used by Archer in the undescribed battle against Berserker in Fate route. Using reinforcement magecraft, the blades have been completely transformed into long swords. By the way, while the story of Ganjiang and Moye has survived to this day, there is no mention of what kind of swords they actually were. The assumption is that they were cast swords, as was common in that time period. Even their shape is a mystery, as the only known description of the swords simply says that Ganjiang had a black tortoise shell pattern and Moye had a white wave pattern.
The difference is that HF Shirou is not a sword because he gave up his ideals and let hundreds of innocents die. His whole body rebelled against him and tried to turn him into a sword by force, by way of swordification.
So I guess Fate Shirou's body rebelled against him too? The swords sprouting out have nothing to do with lack of ideals, it's Archer's arm not being compatible with a mere human.
No, Shirou still believes everyone can be saved in HF. His definition of "everybody" is what changes. Take the scene where he's about to kill Shinji in the school, Shinji does not fit in this definiton, while Sakura is made to fit. Kotomine says something along the same lines in the cave.
From a a purely 1v1 perspective, Fate Shirou gets wrecked by everybody, HF Shirou wrecks everybody, and UBW is in the middle. Even though it's killing him, Archer's Arm and the experience/mana/power that come with it temporarily put Shirou at almost servant tier. UBW Shirou does have the reality marble, but it's really only useful against Gil and doesn't improve his physical parameters at all in the way the Arm does.
In the long term, it's UBW no question. Fate Shirou learns fucking nothing besides "muh caliburn, muh avalon". HF Shirou is more powerful during the HGW, but he's on an eternal burnout course, and post HF he's a puppet that, while he still has access to his magics, is reliant on Sakura for mana. Meanwhile UBW Shirou has a semi-developed fighting technique learned from Archer, a conceptual understanding of how to use his reality marble (if not the mana yet) decades ahead of any other iteration of him, Rin as a top tier teacher, and the resources of the Magic Association. Given a decade or two, and he has the potential to become full on Emiya tier.
>Two? Avalon and what else?
Nevermind, I thought that Caliburn was EX as well due to the whole "killed Berserker 7 times in one hit" asspull, my bad.
>And it makes sense he could project Avalon since the actual thing was inside him for ten years.
It still isn't a sword which is the only reason is able to project NPs, since that along with the RM are his only aptitudes as a mage. He can't even project a proper kettle which is a basic fucking thing and not an EX NP. Even putting that aside, the projection alone should have both killed him due to the strain on his body and he doesn't even have enough magical energy in the first place.
I seriously don't get how a C- rank weapon can be boosted to an A rank one but whatever.
Still, it is stated that each method was different from the rest
>Archer delivered a fatal blow six times.
>It does not even need to be said that every one of the attacks was by a different method
And considering that Berserker states that the same kind of attack won't work twice leaves the other 4 lives to interpretation, but I can't see anything other than traced strength+technique going through GH
The description of UBW says that he can record and project defensive equipment at 2-3x the mana cost, hence the Aius. Avalon almost certainly qualifies as defensive in nature, and since Shirou's projection magic is just an extension of UBW, the same rules should apply.
Dude, Avalon is the reason his origin changed to "sword" in the first place, of course he can project it. And Archer's UBW page says he can project defensive equipment as well, hence Rho Aius. As for the strain on his body and mans requirements, Avalon happens to be a) a source of healing and b) a source of mana.
Since this is a powerlevel thread, I might just as well ask:
People always talk about how in Shirou vs Gil, swords are flying around and colliding everywhere while Shirou and Gil have their little melee. Where is this stated? Seems like it's just a popular fanon theory, since if I remember correctly the scene doesn't mention any aerial swords, only the ones they wield with their hands.
Because clearly Gil does whatever the fuck he wants.
... I was under the impression that it was HF Shioru in particular that was incompatible with Archers arm because of how different his mindset was and that he was rejecting everything that made UBW.
I'm certain that UBW Shirou would have a far easier time controlling it because he's more in line with Archers ideals.
But you might be right, if you have proof please correct me.
Nothing like that, no. AFAIK Shirou just charges Gil and starts broken phantasm'ing UBW swords into swords Gil is hastily pulling out of GoB to defend himself. UBW's increased speed (UBW means Shirou always has a sword when he wants one, whereas Gil has to actually reach into GoB) let Shirou keep up with Gil's higher speed. Eventually Gil got pissed, tried to pull out Ea which apparently takes a bit longer than other stuff, and it gave Shirou an opening to lob Gil's arm off.
Since Avalon is what gave Shirou his sword origin, why would giving up the ideals even matter? Your origin doesn't change just because you decided to save Sakura, it takes a fucking EX class phantasm shoved up your ass for almost a decade.
2-3 times the mana cost of a EX NP is a crazy amount that not even fucking Archer has, let alone untrained shitty Fate Shirou.
>Avalon is the reason his origin changed to "sword" in the first place
> b) a source of mana.
Where are you getting this from? Avalon is not a mana source.
>Its function as a Noble Phantasm is an "absolute defense" that completely shields its user in the domain of fairies. It is the greatest protection in the world that goes beyond defending or reflecting, completely isolating its user in a world completely separate from the regular world. The individual is shielded from all destructive interference in the physical realm, transliners from parallel worlds, and multidimensional communication as far as the sixth dimension. It is on the level of true magic, an actual true magic in itself, that transcends all magecraft, and not even the Five Magics can overcome the barrier.
>It does not even need to be said that every one of the attacks was by a different method
If it stated different weapon I would have agreed, but it states different method, and BPing a weapon is a method in using it for Archer
The epilogue of HF implies that Shirou will eventually be able to learn and use UBW. He just couldn't use the version that Archer had/knew that was stored in his arm, because UBW is based on Shirou's own image of the world, and his & Archer's views were different.
In UBW, Shirou slowly and naturally learns about the nature of his powers from interacting with Rin & Archer, so the UBW he uses is his own understanding. In HF he doesn't understand his abilities at all until he takes off the shroud, and all of Archer's knowledge flows into him. Therefore he was using his power as Archer understood it, and so couldn't use Archer's understanding of UBW because their worldview's are different.
That doesn't mean it gives you magical energy. If I take a 5 gallon water tank and make it a 8 gallon water tank, that does not mean I pulled 3 gallons of water out of my ass.
Also even assuming you are right, which you aren't, you get the magical energy back after you are done projecting the damn thing since it doesn't exist nor does it do anything until then, so it's moot since he doesn't have in him enough magical energy to finish projecting it in the first place.