FZ had better fight scenes than FSN. Prove me wrong.
It mirrors episode 4 well, simply by showing how different a fight between the two of them would look like if they did not have the cautiousness they did in their first battle. In ep4, the majority of parries were about evasion, and in some ways deceit. Both sides didn't want the other to know exactly what they were capable of, so they tried to test their boundaries and play some mind games. Here in ep16, there is none of that, and it becomes much more physical. Sword clashing on lance, Saber bouncing off the lance with her feet, Lancer blocking her sword hand with his arm, etc. Great stuff.
Wait for HF anon.
Kirei looks like a cocksucer in that picture.
The only thing F/Z has on FSN is that the characters act more childish than highschoolers. That's something of merit. Only a writer master like Urobuchi could have pulled that off.
Fate/Zero overall was better material than F/SN so this should not be a surprise that people don't like it as much.
F/Z had focus while F/SN was all over the place. Especially in HF.
Just be content that Ufotable's doing it and not DEEN or something
In pacing? It became kinda apparent in the anime adaptation but Caster's arc wasn't that bad in pacing. It really depends on who's watching. If you're marathoning. It's okay. If you want to wait 6 months for the next season, it's a pain. When it comes to light novels, it depends how fast you're reading.
But in terms of plot, it wasn't as good and how Caster died felt like a let down but he was a sick fuck that deserved to go so it wasn't so bad.
I think UBW first cour anime will have better pacing since it'll end in a cliffhanger that'll make people want to watch the 2nd cour even if they had 6 months and the ending won't have loose ends.
Heaven'f feel last movie followed by 2nd season of UBW followed by second season of F/Z.
>I haven't watched F/SN yet because it feels like you could stitch all of the episodes into one and it would work.
It wouldn't. You clearly haven't read/played the VN if you think you can cram 20 hours into a 23 or 46 minute episode.
I think he means you could stitch it together and watch it all at once, like a big movie, or like the playall files coalgirls included in their F/Z release, rather than cramming it all into a 30 minute episode
Already have actually. I have more memories of that than the VN unfortunately.
I meant that the way they format the episodes they could stitch some of them together. I don't mean slicing them apart into 20 minute pieces but merging them into a 40 minute piece.
Ep. 2+3, Ep. 6+7 for example with how it is paced. The episodes have this pacing where they end at this big battle, then suddenly the credits roll.
That makes more sense but I still disagree. It'd be too much exposition for viewers to take.
I agree with that. Episode 9 didn't end strongly. Considering people have to wait one week, especially for secondaries, it won't feel good to watch the next one.
And marathoning will feel weird if when they end at an episode like 9.
I wonder how HF movies will go. If they're supposed to have the necessary info dumping, it could play weirdly with the pacing.
I remember Shirou's fingernails snapping while fighting Archer in the VN, also how his body was autonomous and would keep going.
Ufotable have been overriding my memories so far, so that's good.
8+9+10 together or 8+9 with 10+11 (60 minutes).
I have to imagine a small team is carefully planning on how HF is going to work out right now, while everyone else works on UBW.
Unfortunately I found both the fighter jet and motorbike somewhat cringeworthy, although the scenes were really well made after all.
What makes F/Z for me is its representation of the crushing curse that is utilitarian ideals some people can't shake off.
Call me an edgelord, and of course I'm just a depressed piece of shit and not a master assassin living in a magical world, but I fully sympathize with Kiritsugu's thought pattern of sacrifice and his ensuing suffering.
I'm sad for those who couldn't enjoy that aspect of F/Z, because Kerry is a really fascinating character in that respect.
I think a lot of people that prefer F/Z don't realize that a really big part of what makes it so good is information we already knew from HF.
I'm not saying it's not greatly executed, but you have to take that into account when comparing both stories.
You are a utilitarian surgeon.
You have 5 dying men in your care, each dying of the failure of a separate organ. These men are young, intelligent, successful and otherwise healthy outside of their imminently fatal conditions. Each of their lives can be saved if they find a donor of the corresponding organ, but no such donor is available and will not become available before the men die.
One day, a 6th man comes into your clinic for a routine checkup. This man is healthy, intelligent, successful and places his entire trust in the care of you, the utilitarian surgeon. The checkup confirms that this man is in good health and, miraculously, that his blood type matches those of all 5 dying men.
An idea enters your good little utility-maximizing brain: While this 6th man is under your care, and placing his trust in you unconditionally, you can sedate him without a struggle and harvest all of the organs that are needed to save the other 5 men. In essence, sacrificing 1 man, and saving the lives of 5 others.
Between sedating and killing the man to reap his innards, or releasing him from your care unharmed and allowing the 5 others to die, which decision maximizes utility?
This is the Kiritsugu who shot a random bystander along the pier simply because he had good enough reason to suspect he was Caster's master. This is the Kiritsugu who lied to Kayneth just to ensure that he could take out Lancer and both his masters. This is the Kiritsugu who will continue to talk to Natalia just to make sure the plane continues on the expected flight course so he shoot it down over the ocean. Even to the only living person in the world he cared about at the time, he would deceive and kill, simply if his instincts told him that was what he had to do. The difference between this time and all the subsequent times he would do this, is that we see him break down for the first time ever. Here we see the real Kiritsugu, the man filled with emotion, conflicts, doubts, anger, and lost to himself and the world. The face he hides from everyone because he has to, including himself.
After two episodes showing how Kiritsugu became the person he is, it is hard to really sympathize with him. Instead it is so much easier to pity him. A man who feels that he is nothing more than a tool the world needs, and who has so little respect for his own emotions and needs. It really drives home why he was the way he is in the very first scene the series started with. A man who feels he has no right to enjoy the rights of a normal person or be a father.
My issue is that when each of the Servants are separately portrayed with their Masters, there is a good balance in terms of drama and also how believable it is. When paired against each other, it becomes much more like a typical anime or videogame, and loses some of the unique qualities the show has. This is fine for action sequences, especially when they're supposed to be cool and exciting instead of dramatic and classy, but I just hope it's not something that is too frequent.
FZ retrospectively was shit exactly like FSN
here I said it. this franchise is shit, I wasted years and years on this soap bubble crap, but its just less than LN shonen garbage behind 7000 complicated sounding words randomly chucked in. the only vaguely decent one was tsukihime, and it just sinks into retardation like the rest when you put it in the same "setting" of the rest
fuck nasu, fuck typemoon, and fuck you anon, yeah, because you keep glomping down this shit forcing yourself into like it for some reason, and insulting your intelligence in the process
I would've killed one of the 5 to begin with, since you said each have a different failing organ. That way the dying man's family won't be rustled either, since the guy was going to die anyway.
This is assuming no other donors can be found etc. etc.; real-life scenario are obviously much more complicated.
Good riddance. Don't come back.
Why am I responding to bait?
> Masters are professional killers or competent magicians
The fight that clearly suffered was the encounter between Saber and Berserker. Clearly Saber had more to say during the fight, and I would assume there is a bit more to Kariya's scenes, since he very likely died in the conflict as well. An expanded battle sequence along with more closure for Kariya and Berserker would improve the flow tremendously.
>This is the Kiritsugu who shot a random bystander along the pier simply because he had good enough reason to suspect he was Caster's master.
I remember him having a mana-detection scope or something
That was pretty much the only reason to like FZ, for me. The fights of both are kind of pretty, but don't offer anything else. Kiritsugu and Shirou are written as two sides of a coin and are less interesting without the other.
I felt let down on the fight scenes after Caster's huge monster. Any servant after that didn't have a chance against overpowered Saber or Archer.
Being able to use Excalibur at Caster and able to fight Lancer afterwards and using the Gates of Babylon as much as he wants.
They both barely showed exhaustion at all from using it.
Also possibly Kotomine as well, being able to lift a tree just because he has martial arts experience.
I guess prefer the fight scenes from FSN compared to FZ. But I preferred the interaction with the Servant and Masters in FZ.
I like the Fate stuff but could never get into the expanded universe. Not sure why, should probably give it another chance sometime. I guess I'll start with the Tsukihime anime.
>says the f/z has better fight scenes than f/sn
>picks the batcave one as example
Ancient mythological flying spaceship that runs on miracles.
>I guess I'll start with the Tsukihime anime.
>I guess I'll start with the Tsukihime anime.
I think you forgot your daily reminder, here I'll post it.
>Has anyone watched this thing that doesn't exist
haha very funny
Can we say the Fate route isn't real either?
No, because it contains a bunch of exposition and stuff. Unfortunately, that means we must acknowledge its existence and its shit quality
Good fights in Fate/Zero
>Gilgamesh vs Lancelot
>Gilgamesh vs Iskandar
>Kiritsugu vs Fastwheels
>Kiritsugu vs Fastwheels 2: Electric Bogaloo
>Kiritsugu vs Kotomine
>Arturia vs Lancelot
>Diarmud vs Himself
Good fights in Fate/stay night
>Shirou vs Redman
>Shirou vs Gilgamesh
>Shirou vs Kotomine (HF)
>Kojirou vs Arturia
>Kotomine vs Hassan
>Tohsaka vs Wormslut
>Nine Lives Blade Works
>Redman vs Cu
>Sparks Liner High
Why, yes I am. I can tell you that you are going to get a dozen new Fate products in the next five years with nothing else in sight.
>velox will never return to do the sprite comics for UBW
Nasu: Regardless he was incarnated or not, as long as Gilgamesh was materialized under the Grail System, he could not resist the Grail itself - Black Sakura. Also, the incarnated Gilgamesh had an amazing amount of mana. In Sakura Route, since she devoured an unexpectedly large amount of mana from Gilgamesh, Sakura who was barely maintaining herself, buckled like a broken dam.
Gilgamesh: (Saber Alter) "I have no use for someone like you who has lost sight of their ideals. You shall be swallowed up by the darkness that you yourself created."
Chains of Heaven
That which exemplifies Gilgamesh's childhood. It expresses his battle with the friend that was his equal and their adventures.
The one and only tale of a merit that will not change for all eternity in the world.
A main Servant who was added for CCC.
Humanity’s most ancient hero, and a demigod who, B.C., ruled the Sumerian city-state of Uruk.
Ruthless and unfeeling. A tyrant who heeds not the opinions of others and lives by his standards alone.
Like Red Archer, I’ve expounded exhaustively on this guy in plenty already, so there’s nothing in particular that needs to be said.
Though some details were tweaked slightly for Extra, he’s basically the same Gil we all know.
An extraordinary Heroic Spirit who flaunts his ornate golden armor and throws around his superabundant wealth of treasures like they grow on trees or something.
"Apparently Gil's personality is heavily influenced by the era he's summoned into. He was a jerk in FSN because the world (his property) was being sullied by the consumption society of the early 2000s, which rubbed him the wrong way. He's taken a liking to the virtual world of 2032, though, so his personality is more stable and closer to how he actually was in life. Wada says he reminds her a little of Hollow Ataraxia Gil."
>In Sakura Route, since she devoured an unexpectedly large amount of mana from Gilgamesh, Sakura who was barely maintaining herself, buckled like a broken dam.
So Gil almost mindbroke her from all the mana he was pumping into her.
What a slut.
>Tokiomi: I am Fuyuki’s Second Owner, the Capsaba uncle, Tohsaka Tokiomi.
>Tokiomi: An elegant dandy who is retrieving the Capsule Servants, which are too powerful for children to have.
>Tokiomi: I think you can understand what this means. Well?
>Shirou: I don’t understand at all! Huh? Tohsaka? Are you with Rin?!
>Tokiomi: Oh, are you Rin’s friend? In that case, please get along with her.
>Tokiomi: You wouldn’t think it to look at her, but can be careless. I fear she may fall in love with some boy of doubtful origin someday.
>Tokiomi: Oh, hahaha, how rude of me. It seems I’m being too much of a doting parent!
>Shirou: I see, Rin must have it tough!
>Tokiomi: In any case, your reckless fighting ends here.
>Tokiomi: If I win, I will have you hand over your Serv…
>Shirou: What’s wrong?
>Tokiomi: Nice joke. It seems I’ve left my Capsaba at home. Would you mind waiting a minute?
>Shirou: I see, like father like daughter!
Kirei's life in the world of Fate/Apocrypha is briefly mentioned. Differing from the world of Fate/stay night, he has a foster brother, Shirou Kotomine, and he never gets the chance to participate in the Fourth Holy Grail War due to the Greater Grail being stolen from Fuyuki during the Third Holy Grail War. Risei dies at some point in time, and Kirei sets out on a spiritual journey looking for "something not yet known to him."
He has various devices accomplishing the same shit.
He has a wishing device, like Einzbern magecraft, but without any prana generator.
He has no prana generator, because mechanization of 1st sorcery was pionered into the far future of Moon Cell.
He may have some spiritual enlightment shit, but not anything that just works.
He most likely have several flags in there.
But there is tons of stuff he doesn't have.
Basically the conditions are
1. Is it a mythological weapon, which has derivatives? I.E: Gram -> Caliburn -> Exalibur
2. Is it actually divine? And not reconstructed?
3. Is it made by a human civilization? Gil doesn't have pre civilisation stuff in there, made by raw pure gods
But it also depends on the canon.
Prism > MOONCELL > Fate
The ultimate antagonist of Fate.
If Archer represented Shirou's flaws that were exposed under the spot light, then Kotomine could be called a wall you could only perceive in the dark.
His initial concept was "the evil mastermind that was instantly recognizable".
Nasu: There were many Command Spells on his arm. In fact, at one point there was this idea to present the effect of the Command Spells consumed to defeat Zouken in Fate/Stay Night with all the bells and whistles. With about ten Command Spells, even a human being can damage a Heroic Spirit. Ultimately I did not get the chance to do so. Mmm, True Assassin was not as reliable as I thought he would be (sweat drop)."
Urobuchi: To write him, I just got rid of the older Kirei's state of enlightenment and composure, and replaced them with hesitation and inner turmoil. In Zero, when he engages in self-introspection his memories of the past are distorted, especially in regards to his wife. Accordingly, the more philosophic self-analysis from Fate/stay night is probably a better reflection of his true inner self.
In the first draft, I was a bit too cognizant of his height from the original story, and kept indiscriminately using words like "gigantic", "hulking", and "towering" to describe him. As a result, I was called in by Type Moon and chastised for misrepresenting Kirei's image, and his height ended up casually being changed.
Originally he was taught baji quan by his father, Risei, as a form of spiritual improvement, but through his blood-drenched experiences as an executor it was gradually sublimed into a warped version specialized at destroying the human body. Needless to say, the fact that he was so far off from his father's ideal form of kung fu was probably just one more thing he could not forgive himself for during his youth.
Gilgamesh doesn't have later human civilization human stuff in there as well, made by humans who are a new breed of humans. He has the origin of shit, not all shit. Which is why he has a fishing contest with Archer in Ataraxia over his fishing reel that he traced from a magazine because it interested him a bit.
All the stuff he has is basically from his own age, but Nasu goes on to say that human desire back then was unchanged, and they had magic and shit. So everything back then was basically as it is now, and in no way inferior in terms of technology.
No, well only at the end you see normal KOHA-Ace style Caren. Enjoy having Emiya Caren raised by an elementary schooler.
Go back to your common type servants, meanwhile I'm enjoying the ultimate super rare final edition servant drawn by Takeuchi Takashi himself!
Using nothing but legendary and rare types is literally the only way to play.
So, what has Atlanta done recently in Apocrypa?
Yes, she was also raised by Sir Gawain.
That's all the Apocrypa Servants Capsule Servant had.
No, you can tell she means business because she has a bitchin cape.
This is what happens when you don't scold your Homunculi Einzberns.
Behold, Emiya Caren. Daughter of Emiya Shirou
and Fujimura Taiga.
>Masters are professional killers or competent magicians
Except for everything, along with trying to take over the world with the dreaded MATO empire in one alternate future.
Even he mentioned in the game though that he expected them to remember that he was a pure and earnest child early on before he was warped, but no such luck.
Whatever nerd, best plot-line in the game
Do you even Super Robot GaoGaiGar?
>Kidnaps his ex-daughter and turns her into a giant fighting robot that runs on servants
>Gives away his other daughter from an alternate dimension to the first person that comes along and agrees to save his ass from Shinji.
I don't know what you're talking about. This guy seems pretty legit.
9/10 parenting, only a shame he didn't have more kids.
Shirou gets paied in /ss/ and Rin has to please Alaya for money.
>you will never fight Rider's sisters on a Giant mecha Rider while on a giant mecha Sakura to take over the Universe
It's hard to tell just how robot Sakura really is there. She still has her personality and feelings, but according to her she just kind of "Woke up that way" due to Tokiomi.
I'm not seeing any buttons or levers, and not even a cockpit. It's hard to tell if he just made her a giant and called it a robot for some reason. While giving her an Eva suit.
Have the other half of Kintoki.
Fuck, how could I forget.
I feel it kinda goes downhill after the second volume. Too much focus on killing of team black and turning the whole thing into team ruler vs team red. That and team red being dull in general.
Robin a shit. He and Lu Bu were the only shit Servants in Extra, all ther others were top notch.
No Face May King: Faceless King (顔のない王ノーフェイス・メイキング, Kao no nai Ou?), called Faceless King (顔のない王かおのないおう, ?) in Fate/Extra, is Robin Hood's hidden Noble Phantasm, magic clothing that erases any sign of the wearer.
Donning the May King costume erases any sign, so those wearing it naturally melt into that appearance. With it, he holds the same level of ability as the Fairy Puck. It is said to be stronger than the Bow of Prayer on the back of his hand, as a "one-sided victory cheat item." It allows him to disable the reading of one another in battle, allowing him to win all attack exchanges that turn in-game.
It does not hide magical energy, but it does completely conceal the wearer's sound and scent. It allows for him to utilize his sniping abilities and exhibit Assassin-like behavior while hiding himself in the cloak. If he begins to attack, his targets can sense that he is following them, but are unable to actually detect his location. Such tactics aggravate his chivalrous Master, Dan Blackmore, so it is strictly forbidden outside of combat
He's actually pretty broken, its just his master wouldn't let him fight normally.
The thing is, though the crossbow so perfectly fits Nasu's reasoning for why a heroic spirit can't have a gun (because any peasant with enough training can use a gun without being a superior hero and therefore is disqualified from becoming a hero for any achievements he made with a gun).
The traditional bow was a very specialized weapon which required lifetime of training and superior physical strength to use well. In many cultures bowmen were considered a superior caste, since their archery skill-set was essentially developed from birth and impossible to reproduce outside a pre-established cultural tradition.
But then along came the crossbow which was simple, cheap, and undemanding enough that you could put it in the hands of any illiterate peasant conscript and they could use it effectively, which made it possible to large masses of ranged infantry cheaply that were as a whole more effective than longbowmen. This led to armies becoming progressively dominated by masses of conscripts with increasingly powerful crossbows which could penetrate the armor of mounted aristocratic knights.
So why is Robin Hood able to have a crossbow as his Noble Phantasm?
Why for that matter was Elizabeth/Drake allowed to have her boat as her Noble Phantasm when anybody with training can captain a boat?
Also Lu Bu is pretty broken as a lancer (if you ignore the whole betrayal thing).
The result born from this idea was an artificial, multi-mode Noble Phantasm super weapon that had six forms in order to let the many martial techniques of Lü Bu bloom as he pleased. It has three different categorizations of varying strength, and it can be said Lu Bu has the equivalent of six Servants' worth of Noble Phantasms for himself. The forms, Forces (フォース, ?), include:
Slash (切断, ?) for heavy damage attacks that nullify or cut through and break all kinds of physical defense.
Thrust (刺突, ?), the Halberd (矛, ?) Force, for heavy damage attacks that can stun on hit, the target being rendered immobile due to spear impalement, and penetrate through a line of enemies.
Blunt strike (打撃, ?) for raising his defense by transforming into huge bracers, or using a special defensive technique for blocking and redirecting attacks.
Sweep (薙ぎ, ?) mode for sweeping aside a row of enemies.
Parry (払い, ?) mode for doing special counterattacks to do damage while deflecting physical attacks.
Shoot (射撃, ?), the Cannon (砲, ?) Force, for a large-bore, wave motion cannon-like "Lu Bu beam." The halberd separates into a large bow and arrow that charges and fires at the enemy.
So he essentially has 6 A rank noble phantasm, including 2 defensive, and the rest range from Anti Unit,Anti Army and Anti Fortress.
His stats ain't too shabby either.
>anybody with training can captain a boat
>>So why is Robin Hood able to have a crossbow as his Noble Phantasm?
Because that's not his Noble Phantasm, that's just a nameless bow. It doesn't undermine anything because it is not a noble phantasm.
People always look for plot holes, then shit themselves trying as they overlook half the shit in the process.
His NP is the Yew Tree, his knowledge of druid poisons from a legendary source.
But (s)he did it with modern armaments. Or at least as modern as Elizabethan armaments get which still falls within the firearms era. Didn't Nasu say you're not allowed to be a heroic spirit if you used firearms to help achieve your deeds?
Man, what? The guns are practically irrelevant, any jackoff with a boat and a couple of pistols isn't going to be one of the most famous explorers of all time.
Also there's the whole Spanish Armada thing? I don't really remember what that was about specifically. Deeds, man.
>Didn't Nasu say you're not allowed to be a heroic spirit if you used firearms to help achieve your deeds?
No, he said "You can't become a HS if all you're famous for is shooting guns, since anyone can learn, rather than an NP being [the only one, one specific user] like it should be"
A heroic spirit can use guns, but that can't be what they're famous for. They have to have done other stuff. Drake did indeed do other stuff to become a legend in this case.
It's actually a leotard like a gymnist
She put a skirt over it as it looks indecent now as you think you're seeing something, but really isn't oddly enough.
>She put a skirt over it as it looks indecent now as you think you're seeing something, but really isn't oddly enough.
Reminds me of Biribiri. I think Aoko does something similar in Mahoyo, too.
Here is your black knight
sick of Arthur's white knight faggotry.
>True name: Oda Nobunaga
>Alignment: Lawful Neutral
>Noble Phantasm: E~EX
>■ Magic Resistance: B
>Nullifies all magic that requires less than three verses. It is difficult to hurt her even using great magic or ritual magic.
>■ Independent Action: B
>Ability that allows independent movement even after the Master's magical energy supply is cut off. With Rank B, it is possible for a Servant to stay in this world for two days after losing its Master.
>■ Military Tactics: B
>■ Charisma: B-
>■ Demon King: A
>A monster whose perception in life later twisted what she had actually been in the past.
>Abilities and appearance have been distorted. In Archer’s case, she can choose to activate or deactivate it at her own choosing because it’s something that she in life had called herself. She’s able to receive its benefits without any demerits. In other words, she can go from being a loli to being racked. It’s a skill similar to but dissimilar to Innocent Monster.
>■ Tenka Fubu - Innovation: A
>Innovation, a special skill granted to heroes who brought about a revolution in an era.
>The wording "Tenka Fubu" is added to Archer's version of this. A conceptual revolution of subjecting the old with the new.
>It grants modifiers leaning more in one's favor the higher the opponent's rank in Divinity or Mystery or the more that opponent is a Heroic Spirit who is a guardian of the establishment.
>Thanks to it, Archer boasts an absolute advantage over Heroic Spirits and Noble Phantasms with Divinity and Mystery. It's the ultimate game of compatability. >However, it has no power over Heroic Spirits of the modern era with little Mystery. And not only that, but the effects of his other skills and Noble Phantasms drop.
>■ Three Thousand Worlds (three line formation)
>Type: Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
>Maximum number of targets: 3000 Person
>Three thousand matchlocks are deployed and fired at once.
>Because of the all too famous anecdote of Nobunaga defeating the most powerful cavalry in the age of warring states, their attack power increases against Heroic Spirits with the Riding skill.
>If used on the Rider of the Fifth War for example, her unique skill "Innovation" would also be factored in, making for a [Quiz Derby catchphrase] crazy effect.
>They are usually mere matchlocks against heroic spirits with low divinity and mystery, but 3000 guns are still annoying.
>■ Papiyas, the Demon King of the Sixth Heaven
>Type: Anti-Divine Noble Phantasm
>Maximum number of targets: -
>The true noble phantasm of the demon king Nobunaga, destroyer of Shinto and Buddhism.
>A reality marble transforming him into a being holding absolute power against those with Divinity and Mystery.
>Visually, it seems she becomes naked, hurray!
>It's a Noble Phantasm based on the burning of Mount Hiei and the other brutal deeds she had performed when she was alive.
>The accumulation of the fear and reverence that the people held for Nobunaga after death materializes a scorching hell.
>It's difficult for those with high divinity to even continue existing in its space.
>On the other hand, it's just a tad hot to those Heroic Spirits with low divinity.
>she can go from being a loli to being racked
An ancient legend killer, but potentially terrible against newer servants with next to no mystery to their name.
The more divine mystery and legend you hold the worse you'll do against her.
So Servants like King Arthur, Gilgamesh and Hercules would do shit against her?
Does anyone else think that a huge flaw in Fate/Zero is that the fights don't have consequences?
The first fight for example was just to showcase the Servants.
But what kind of intelligent Master would reveal his Servant's abilities, when it's safer to watch from the sidelines and observe and plan?
9/10 of the fights end up with nobody dying while characters just spew their little monologues.
So far F/SN has this too.
These fights could be taken out of the series to no detriment to the plot:
- Rin attacking Shirou in the school
- Rider vs Shirou in back of school
- Berserker 1v2
- Ilya vs Rin
- Saber vs Japanese Steel Folded 1000 Times
- Archer vs Caster
The only fight that makes sense is the first Archer vs Lancer fight because Rin was exploring, and Lancer trying to assassinate Shirou.
Fights should be few and have significant consequences where one side is killed or crippled, not just eyecandy for fancy abilities.
How much do guns factor into your deeds before you become disqualified? People have discounted WWII era military commanders because huur modern times, but at the same time Oda Nobunaga is a Servant whose fucking NP is literally matchlock spam.
They would have worse compatibility against her, especially the ones with divinity.
They picked Medusa as an example of one that would do badly against her as a lot of modifiers would start going off if she used her first NP.
That's how it was for the first four of both shows.
I admit that in the earlier stretch, the battles having more of an impact would be nice. But arguably, as insignificant as they may seem, they all lead or build to something and have a vital reason in the plot to be there.
>How much do guns factor into your deeds before you become disqualified?
If all you're famous for is shooting and all of your deeds revolve around nothing but shooting, you're unlikely to get in.
If you've become a legend among the populous as a true hero, or had a legendary feat not necessarily associated with guns, even though you used guns, you'll probably get in. You need at least something more to your legend than just "I was famous because I shot a lot of people", because literally anyone could do that, even a child. It has to be more like, Billy the Kidd despite using guns did have other legends attributed to him. Like certain famous escapes he made, and famous dealings with the law in general.
If your feat is something that even a child could do with no real training, it's not worth enough.
Oda is a true legend among Japan who's name is remembered, and the gun NP is in part due to an anecdote about Nobunaga defeating powerful cavalries.
After painstaking study I have come to the conclusion that Fate actually has better fights than UBW, because at the end of most of them someone is actually dead.
Fate major fights:
>Saber versus Berserker
Saber almost dies, and Shirou almost dies
>Saber versus Assassin
Saber withdraws voluntarily
>Shirou and Saber versus Rider and Shinji
Rider and Shinji are forced to withdraw, various students almost die
>Saber versus Rider
Rider dies, Shinji dies
>Archer versus Berserker
Archer dies, Berserker dies six times
>Saber and Shirou and Rin versus Berserker
Berserker dies eight times
>Saber and Shirou versus Gilgamesh
Saber almost dies, Shirou almost dies, Gilgamesh is forced to withdraw
>Saber and Shirou versus Gilgamesh and Kirei
Gilgamesh dies, Kirei dies
By comparison, UBW's fights keep getting aborted with someone just quitting and withdrawing voluntarily.
UBW major fights:
>Saber and Archer versus Berserker and Illya
Archer and Saber are unwounded, Berserker withdraws voluntarily
>Shirou versus Rider
Shirou gets a nail in his arm, Rider withdraws voluntarily
>Archer and Saber versus Caster and Assassin
Caster is forced to withdraw, Saber withdraws voluntarily
>Saber and Shirou and Rin versus Rider and Shinji versus Caster and Kuzuki
Bone soldiers break, Rider dies, Caster and Kuzuki withdraw voluntarily
>Saber and Shirou and Rin versus Caster and Kuzuki
Saber, Rin, and Shirou receive only minor damage, Caster and Kuzuki withdraw voluntarily
>Berserker and Illya versus Gilgamesh and Shinji
Berserker dies, Illya dies
>Archer versus Lancer
Archer and Lancer both withdraw voluntarily
>Shirou and Rin versus Caster and Kuzuki
Caster and Kuzuki are ganked by Archer
>Saber and Shirou versus Archer
Archer withdraws voluntarily
>Shirou versus Archer
Archer is stabbed and is forced to withdraw
>Shirou and Rin and Saber versus Gilgamesh and Assassin
Gilgamesh dies, Assassin dies.
>Rin attacking Shirou
It develops Rin's character, shows her inner struggle regarding Shirou and underlines how Shirou is an anomaly
>Rider vs Shirou
Introduces Rider. Cowardly tactics hints at who her Master is.
Clearly shows he's an enemy that can be beaten normally, shows Ilya's enmity against Shirou, shows Shirou's character, shows Saber's potential, shows a bit more of Archer's powers.
>Ilya vs Rin
Not in the VN so I'd give you that... except it's really short and gives Rin more screentime which is important since UBW anime tries to get the focus out of Shirou sometimes
>Saber vs Fassassin
Shows Saber's skill, shows Caster's impenetrable fortress tactic, introduces Fake Assassin into the story so the second fight doesn't come out of nowhere
>Archer vs Caster
At once shows what Caster is actually capable of, her personality, her strength and weakness. It also allows Shirou to see some more of Archer's fighting style.