What makes the Monogatari series one of the most successful anime franchises of all time? Why is it so special, especially among other harem shows?
Yep, it knows what people want to see and gives them it in spades.
Shockingly just tits and ass don't sell as well because there are people out there who want more from their entertainment.
Because SHAFT lucked out by animating the one LN series which could actively accommodate Shinbo's tastes.
Between Nisio's writing and SHAFT's unique art style and direction they struck gold.
People claiming something could be a Monogatari-killer is laughable.
>especially among other harem shows
That's because the girls in Monogatari are well written and have actual personalities. Most harem girls are there to be waifu bait and nothing more.
Man, the worst thing is that all future SHAFT shows are fucked. They're all going to be compared to Monogatari and unless they decide to pick up other Nisio works to keep the cash train going, everything they do in the future is going to be compared to Monogatari and that's not really a position you want to be in.
Though it does stand testament to Monogatari/SHAFT and the quality they produce that we as a fanbase will put up with their bullshit like missed deadlines and missing scenes and still watch the show because its that good.
because it has all the best girls in one series.
Oh right shit forgot about Madoka. SHAFT really benefits from outside help like the Quartet and NisiOisin. I think they'd be better off not necessarily only doing adaptions but getting in famous writers to help write their Original Works like they did with Madoka.
It shows the best girls plump ass.
Do you have more?
I need more delicious monkey ass in all its forms.
It's a harem, it's just a more "realistic" one.
Most haremshit has a bland MC with a half dozen girls madly in love with him for little to no reason and with no actual progress in any of the relationships.
Monogatari has Araragi having a unique relationship with all the girls with actual progress and resolution to the relationships.
They make a good couple.
Why did crab throw it all away.
Why is Hitagi's own sub-harem so perfect?
>possibly Bee (dragged into the bed by Monkey)
She took one for the team. She knew if the world had Crab/Monkey as canon then the world would stagnate. We'd no longer need to move forward because we are satisfied and we would no longer eat because we wouldn't be able to pull ourselves away from ourselves.
Senjougahara did the one thing that stopped the world from stagnating and she will never be thanked for it.
Jokes and meme aside, let's seriously discuss about the best Bake girl. She is the miracle of the Monogatari series
Sure that makes sense.
But she also made a sad monkey.
More interested seeing the dilemma of Araragi as he is turning into a vamp naturally from abuse and being gunned by people. Plus he ain't the happiest fucker around this point.
Fucking Gaen and her plotting. Good plots i must admit.
Piss piss doesn't do much for me. Maybe once she gets some screen time it'll change though.
I've been waiting for more than 2 years to see what kind of pantsu Yotsugi is wearing underneath that skirt and why it makes Araragi say 'this causes a lot of trouble when made into anime!'
no love for ougi even though best grill
So then what do you want to talk about? I can't say I've read any LN but Kizu and Koyomi Water but if there's something specific you want to talk about then feel free to bring it up.
No-one's going to move away from Best Girl talk until someone takes the initiative and brings up another topic.
It's weirdly captivating. 90% of it is dialogue, yet I was almost never bored, and find it highly rewatchable.
I think it's the combination of fan service and superb voice acting that kept me entertained.
>winter: Koufuku Graffiti
>spring: Nisekoi S2
IT'S HAPPENING GUYS KIZU 2015 AT LAST
Is there a trope name for everyone is the author's avatar?
Because every speech is just Nisio talking and it grinds my gears when characters jump out of themselves to do his speeches for him.
I'd prefer him to actually go back and expand on the past of the Exorcists. I'd like to see why Kaiki and Oshino are afraid of Gaen and why Yozuru is so hilariously based that even Gaen is like "Nah fuck that noise. I'll just continue to fuck with Oshino and Kaiki"
Also I'd like to see how Tooe Gaen interacted with them, if she only interacted with Kaiki and Gaen or if Oshino and Yozuru had actually met her and as such Oshino knew who Kanbaru was in Bakemonogatari.
Nisio could finally use the vamp card as a permanent thing for Araragi of no return. Honestly i wouldn't mind exploration of the world as Araragi is at Uni at the point of his life at the furthest point. A telling of Oshino and his days at the club would be great.
Good direction and good source material. I like that it's not really a harem show, the MC gets a girlfriend early on and sticks with her despite how their relationship is often a major factor in the conflict of many subsequent arcs. And the girls all have their own lives and personalities and grow as individuals rather than just as extras in the Araragi Show.
NisiO's dialogue and Shinbo's direction are also a perfect match. The characters often don't act or talk like people would, but the tone of the scenes and the expressions of the characters, the rapid cuts, the angles, the cutaways, all make these interactions seem natural and even relatable despite being so very different from how people generally interact. You are given a copious amount of information about a character's mind in almost every scene. And every time these insights feel fresh. It's actually a great example of a successfully very holistic and economic directing style in serial animation. Visuals and audio perfectly interplay with dialogue, and SHAFT's infamous masking of budgetary limitations perfectly add to the distinctive expressiveness of the series. I feel like I should post examples, define some statements, detail my reasoning and such, but I'm just on my phone and I'm not getting to a computer in at least another two days.
Yeah, Nisio is continuing the series with the same universe but different characters, if I'm not mistaken. I can see the continuations further establishing the series as a francise for SHAFT.
I don't mind this; SHAFT and Nisio compatability has already been remarked upon several times and more characters means more best girls.
Man am I looking forward for more Yotsugi soon.
The best part about that thread is everyone being pissed that it would take that long to come out.
Now there would be a massive shitstorm of celebration if it came out in 2015.
Different as in new or Different as in "Pre-established characters"?
Nisio and SHAFT working together is the best thing for both of them. As long as Nisio and SHAFT keep their qualities up, they'll be set for life.
See, I'm not. I'm only looking forward to the Yozuru, the Yotsugi stuff is really low on my list of things I want. I'd be pleasantly surprised if my opinion of Yotsugi actually changed in any significant way because of Yotsugi Doll.
>mfw no FemaleOugixMaleOugi doujins
I really doubt it. Story wise she is pretty much useless.
I like Monogatari but what disappointing is..
it's so fucking successful yet the budget didn't get better in the sequels.
In my opinion Bakemonogatari was the most creative, best looking season out of all Monogatari series. Why does not Aniplex or Shaft invest more into this money maker?
I think it'll continue the format of oddity interaction, but with a completely new story and set of characters. I don't have links saved and I'm lazy; any other anons know more about this?
I'm interested in Yotsugi as a character. I already like her core mannerisms, but I'm more curious about her personally. What was her life like before she was revived? How much of it does she remember? How does she function, what does she feel, and does she have aspirations and desires? We've seen her act conscious of her mortality and lack of a grasp on her existence when she told Araragi she wanted something instantly redeemable rather than a favour, but is she numb to the matter of her creation, or does she respond to it in a more human way?
I haven't read the LN's (no spoilers pls), so I'm anticipating character growth in this arc, and it seems like the Monkey-Doll-Araragi interactions could set the stage for one of my favourite arcs of the series.
Nigga that is muscle
It's firm and plump at the same time.
It's delicious tomboy booty.
Like her main thing was to push Araragi to abuse his hax heals. Which pushes us to the plot we start with Tsuki. Koyomi chapters is that she just explains rumors which leads to the talk between Kaiku and Araragi. Seriously she is pretty much done story wise.
I just want a series of books about the Occult Research Club.
That shit would be so fucking good. Just have some stories from their school days and stories about their present day shenanigans.
Even if she's dislikable, I'd still like to see more of her. She has unresolved character traits and opportuinities for development.
Not everything is about waifu wars on /a/, I'm interested in seeing the story play out.
>I think it'll continue the format of oddity interaction, but with a completely new story and set of characters
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Do I really want to see a new group of people attempt to deal with their problems? I've already grown to love the group I have already.
Unless the new group isn't influenced by Oshino but by another exorcist then all we'll be seeing is a rehash of the "Talk first, fight later" that we got with Monogatari, which is fine BUT if you do it again then you'll just be re-hashing Monogatari.
If they did do a new set of characters. I would at least like to see some of the old characters interacting with them. IE Hanekawa's Vagabond lifestyle turning her into an improvised Oshino or people actually reading Nadeko's manga.
Things that would connect it to the old characters to make it feel familiar and comfortable.
See, that's what I disagree. I don't really have any deeper want to go further into Yotsugi's mind when we have someone we know will have a better backstory with her 90% of the time. I have nothing against Yotsugi but I can't shake the feeling that we're missing out on something better by focusing on her when we could be focusing on Yozuru.
Though with that thought, I still think Tsukimono is necessary because Yotsugi is actually a part of the series and expanding her personality is a pretty important part of Nisio's overall philosophy for Monogatari as a whole. It's very uncommon for him to have someone related to the oddities in some way not be fully explored. I an only think of Mamaragi, Papagahara and Nadeko's Teacher as the only people without any real development and they're all fairly unrelated to the Oddity side of things.
>the monogatari spin off is a SoL about Nadeko writing her Shoujo manga in highschool and her hijinks with her assistants and classmates
Nah man. They've left Zaregoto in the dust. Which is a shame because while I've still got to read the books, there was two kind anons who linked me to the books and they both praised the series as amazing.
I know if they animated Zaregoto then we'd see SHAFT making a ton of money using the pre-established fanbase from Monogatari since it's a Nisio work and as Monogatari fans, we tend to enjoy all his works.
Araragi's Mother and Father both being cops working behind the scenes of Monogatari to make sure the city is safe and that none of the children get found out.
They're both acutely aware of the oddity issue in town but since there is no way to enforce oddity related crimes, they go out there themselves and protect the town like a pair of badasses.
>yfw they meet Oshino and he calls Araragi's mother "Tsundere-chan"
It mostly has to do with a change of staff, not of budget. Most people consider the Monogatari series to be a Shinbo work, but it really isn't, just like practically everything Shaft has made for years. He is more of a chief director, with one or many directors working under him that are more influential on the series than he. In Bake's case, the series director was Tatsuya Oishi, while all works afterwords were handled by Tomoyuki Itamura. Also, many of the storyboarding and key animation staff from Bake were less involved or entirely missing from later seasons.
Why would Oshino and Hanekawa fuck? Oshino doesn't like Hanekawa, in his own words she makes him uncomfortable.
Though their kids would be genetically great exorcists. They'd be smart, tough and have a 4x weakness to Izuko Gaen
I dunno, man. Oshino's uncomfortableness also comes from the fact she reminds him of Gaen. He's met a person who knows everything and he knows how that all works out.
I'm sure he'd be proud of her development but I don't see him ever being close to someone like Hanekawa.
I have to respectfully disagree. When Kaiki compares you to Gaen after your character development, the comparison cannot just be superficial.
Gaen's fundamental opposite is Yozuru or Oshino depending on whether you're contrasting personalities or view points.
As harsh is this is going to sound, Hanekawa is still as manipulative as Gaen is, as knowledgeable as Gaen is and has the same kind of thought process as Gaen does. Hanekawa off-sets being similar to Gaen by being genuinely nicer, more humble and taking the Oshino approach to situations.
Hanekawa would pretty much be Gaen if she was the kind of girl who let knowing everything go to her head.
I finished watching monogatari series 2nd season the other day and was left with some questions.
What was the job Gaen Izuko had Ararargi do? Is the job the reason when Araragi showed up to save Hanekawa he had the ripped hoodie? Who the hell is Ougi? Why does Kaiki
have such a great beard
If it's Nisio and SHAFT, I'll take whatever I can get, and that doesn't feel pathetic. It's way better than the thought of the francise ending permanently within the next couple of years. I think adding a bunch more new characters to the existing group could end up more jumbled than an entirely new set of characters, and I'm confident Nisio could write a great new cast.
I'm open to a timeskip too. An older exorcist Araragi could create an original dynamic in story. Maybe an overall darker arc htat we haven't seen much of yet.
>Hanekawa's Vagabond lifestyle turning her into an improvised Oshino or people actually reading Nadeko's manga.
These are really enticing too.
>I still think Tsukimono is necessary because Yotsugi is actually a part of the series and expanding her personality is a pretty important part of Nisio's overall philosophy for Monogatari as a whole.
this, it's the world building and character development that's best. After that it's just subjective taste in characters.
Unique, quirky,entertaining and has surprising depth while at the same time staying very accessible and simple.
Though the depth is mostly rather subtle. Which is another thing it does well. I actually like the small details such no conflict ever being resolved by violence but always by talking.
Also it's lightning in a bottle to get such a good combination between writer and director. Nisio and Shinbo complement each other to the point where it's not funny.
However like anything popular, Monogatari brings hoards of shitposters. Too bad, it's one of the better anime out there.
I mean Manipulative as in plans and stuff. By Hanekawa's own words in Episode 4 of Koimonogatari, she deliberately left Japan to make it easier for Senjougahara to act and that "It was a miscalculation I'm happy I made, or well, I'm happy things went according to plan". She was actively trying to screw over Gaen by her own words and she believes she succeeded. That is a very Gaen-like thing to do.
So while she's not manipulative in the sense of "I'm going to get you to owe me three favours." she is still manipulating the situation to her advantage all the same.
>It's the world building and character development that's best. After that it's just subjective taste in characters
Right here you hit the nail on the head. I think Nadeko is a shit but how her story overall impacted the series as a set up for getting into Kaiki's head amongst other things really helped the series as a whole. That's always been Monogatari's biggest strength after character interactions.
As for the characters thing.
I dunno. I can see your point with adding more characters into the mix being a jumble but then by the same token, not having any old characters makes me think he'll just be slapping the Monogatari title onto a different series.
If you keep it in the same universe, you really need solid links to the old works to justify giving it the Monogatari title. That's why things like older Araragi and Nadeko's manga would be so important to the new series.
I have a question since nisemonogatari, Senjougahara was in love with Kaiki? she uses Araragi to forget her love for Kaiki or she really loves Araragi?.
But that's not what she was doing. She was running a decoy op for her friend. Yes she deceived her friend as well by not telling her the whole truth but that's not manipulation, that's deception.
I don't question that Cat is still very much deceptive after Tiger, but she's not trying to make people do things anymore.
IF Tsugi is real it will probably be about the creation of Yotsugi. I mean we got teased about it for the whole final season and the Tsugi from the title is the same kanji in Yotsugi.
For those who read it, what was your favorite book from final season? For me it has to be the first volume of Owari, I loved the mystery turn it took. Mind that the whole season is fucking great though, except maybe for Tsuki.
Speaking of mystery, Okitegami Kyouko no bibouroku was really fucking good. DAT ending.
She fell in love with Araragi because he "saved" her.
Kaiki attempted to save her, so she developed some kind of feelings towards him, it's never really clarified exactly what, but those feelings dried up long ago and her one true love is Araragi.
>it's never really clarified exactly what
It's explicitly stated that she was in love with him in Nise and Kaiki, not being a complete shitbag, bowed out because that's really unhealthy for a middle schooler.
Unfortunately the dramatic irony in Nise is such that she doesn't get that's what happened at fucking all. She realizes it at the end of Koi though.
But by running a decoy op, she knows how Senjougahara is going to act and she is actively planning for that. That is still manipulation even if they don't know about it.
All that shows is what kind of level Hanekawa is on, when she can passively manipulate a situation to her advantage against someone like Gaen.
Eh i found the whole Nadeko arc more annoying than Hana. Hana just gives you hints on what is to come in the final season as timeline wise it's the last.
Yeah, I'd rather not see a poor rehash to milk profit. I think having a vaguely intertwining plot would be interesting, in the same sort of way that the alternate reality Oshino wrote to Araragi in Kabuki. Especially if it started out more low key but as the characters became more prevalent across the occult world they naturally interacted with Bake's cast every once in a while.
Except she's doing it all for Crab. She's worried about Gaen further injecting herself into the situation.
When Gaen doesn't in fact do anything further because it's her plan to have Kaiki take care of the Snake situation what does Cat do?
She does nothing and let's Cat and Gaen's plans overlap.
It's speculation on my part but do you really think she'd enjoy letting Gaen's plan come to fruition like that? Do you really think she didn't interfere for anything other than her friendship with Hitagi?
Just curious, is "final season" just going to be random OVA"s released throughout the year, or are we getting one more TV series run? Also, did they cancel the Kizu movie or something? Or do they really just think it's THAT cute and funny to release the chronological first story last?
Arguably every character is likable in a show that is completely character driven
Witty and funny dialogue
Interesting supernatural elements that feel pretty well thought out
Shaft is the perfect studio for the material and they are doing an extremely good job of adapting it
The long standing rumor is that they want Shinbo to actually direct it (instead of the producing he's speculated to be doing under the director's stamp) but he isn't up for it.
Shaft gives Monogatari a good visual aesthetic, but I imagine there is probably a fair amount that isn't adapted into the anime. There's a shitload of narrative that they can usually only partially convey using those words that flash onscreen.
I really wish we'd get a full translation.
SO basically Senjougahara loves Kaiko before she was saved by Araragi, but she dont use Araragi to forget Kaiki's love so she wasnt a whore at all and that shit was true love between Araragi and Kaiki.
Also i hate when Araragi says "you love him" and she respond with all that sex bullshit like a slut.
Koyomimonogatari would work really well as short monthly OVA since the book is composed of 12 short stories that take place during the year that goes from Kizu to Tsuki, one per month. Don't know what SHAFT will do though.
The other books should be animated as usual.
Yeah see, that's what I'd be cool with. As long as you kept the Monogatari title to actually have meaning then I'm sure Nisio could do great but that's the key thing. Keep it Monogatari.
Hanekawa running interference is proof she's manipulating the situation. The intentions behind it don't detract from the fact Hanekawa and Gaen are butting heads with their plans.
Though man, talking to you really makes me want to see a 4 vs 4 situation where Hanekawa and Gaen face off using Yozuru/Kaiki/Oshino vs Araragi/Senjougahara/Kanbaru as pawns in some massive intellectual game where they have to throw out tons of plans which take into account the individual strengths and weaknesses of each person and how they interact and what not.
We never really give Hanekawa enough credit just to how hardcore she actually is for matching Gaen.
>Why is it so special, especially among other harem shows?
because it has the best waifu in the history of animu
But my point is she doesn't do anything. She doesn't run interference she runs recon.
She even says that had the situation actually required her intervention she would have owned up to Hitagi and faced down her ire. How you can take that as manipulative is beyond me.
Not that anon but here's what SHAFT does. They do the monthly thing but they also animate Hitagi Buffet, Suruga Slam Jam, Tsubasa Song etc and then just put the last two shorts as a double episode on the last month.
But her leaving Japan is an action she is actively taking against Gaen. Her coming back to speak to Kaiki is also the same thing.
Don't take me saying Hanekawa is manipulative is a bad thing. It's just something that her and Gaen share. Looking at the bigger picture is the thing they are really good at.
That fine. I can admit I'm terrible with thinking of the word that accurate explains what Gaen and Hanekawa are doing that explicitly ignores any moral implications.
It becomes an issue because Gaen technically isn't doing anything wrong but she is still quite obviously manipulating people directly by telling them through Yotsugi "Here's some money, we're no longer friends" or "Three favours". Whereas Hanekawa is still right as well but she's been less direct about her actions. She knows how Senjougahara is going to act the moment she leaves which is is just a less direct form of what Gaen is doing.
So it's manipulation but...not? If that makes sense.
Because it has character. It is different than other anime, and that attracts people to it. It's why genre deconstruction almost always gets critical reception and a cult following, seemingly without exception.
In an industry that is literally about pushing out as much cookie-cutter, generic bullshit as quickly as possible, going outside the lines gets you places. It helps that it well written, well directed, and well animated.
I still need to get into them, I've been putting them on hold.
Pic related still accurate? or
>It becomes an issue because Gaen technically isn't doing anything wrong
Extortion, scheming, hiding information, insulting.
>So it's manipulation but...not? If that makes sense.
Nigger, you need a better vocabulary. I can't exactly pick your thought-to-word mapping for you, but here are some suggestions:
- She plans/plots
- She controls/guides events
She only did a few grunts in Bake, and the role was then handed over to Sakamoto. Why would she be the voice of Kiss-shot in Kizu?
At any rate, Kamiyan better sing the OP for Kizu. It's his story, after all.
Well Scheming, Hiding Information and being a bitch aren't technically wrong. Extortion I will give you though, no matter which way she sliced it even if she claimed that she really wanted to help Araragi but since "they're friends" she didn't want him to feel he was indebted to her so she made him do somethings for him. That's still pretty much extortion.
Also I really, really do need a better vocabulary. I'm not going to deny that in the slightest. Given Hanekawa/Gaen both plan/control guide events in itself is proof they are more than superficially similar. If it was small things I could let it slide but they are both pulling plans that actually require a fair bit of foresight and planning.
>Given Hanekawa/Gaen both plan/control guide events in itself is proof they are more than superficially similar. If it was small things I could let it slide but they are both pulling plans that actually require a fair bit of foresight and planning.
I wouldn't reduce it to "superficial", but it's not like they're on the same path. Essentially, they are both planners.
>Because Maaya sakamoto is never going to sing in monogatari
Which is stupid horseshit, but regardless: it would be nonsense for Aya to do it, as her voice is not that of Kiss-shot. We might as well have Sugita pop in, do his Kyon voice, and sing us God Knows.
>I wouldn't reduce it to "superficial", but it's not like they're on the same path. Essentially, they are both planners
Wait. I think we just had an entire argument when we both believed the same thing. Like I don't believe Hanekawa is going down the Gaen path at all. I just think she has similarities to Gaen which make them very similar. Nothing particularly personality-wise but in the other things like how their planning and expansive intellects.
Hanekawa is way too nice to ever be Gaen. Gaen loves being the smartest person in the room and always being right. Hanekawa has humility and accept that she can't be right all the time.
>I think we just had an entire argument when we both believed the same thing.
The problem only stemmed from the use of the word "manipulative". That was resolved back in >>118905192.
Well then again, I apologize for my lack of vocabulary and causing a misunderstanding. It was a good conversation for the most part though, surprised the thread hasn't devolved into the usual stuff.
am i the only one who just rolls into each monogatari season not knowing/caring about the story and timeline?
i really don't understand why the couldn't just make it in chronological order.
There's at least two of us.
I would stick to superficial. A slasher and a mercenary both kill people but they're completely different.
Cat and Gaen are both big picture girls but Gaen is about puppetmastery while Cat is about helping her friends.
I love Kaiki's reaction of being cut off by her is essentially 'who cares you're a cunt'.
>There's at least two of us.
To which part exactly? To the Hanekawa would never be Gaen part or?
That is true. I quite enjoy the LN-level discussions in these threads.
The girls are cute and well-designed. Even worst girl crab has her merits.
Also it appeals to young adults because it's got philosophy and they think they're cool when they parrot the opinions of some author who probably has no idea what he's talking about while completely missing the point of what philosophy is.
I completely forgot Hitagi shows up near the end of Tsuki. Who cares, always more interested afterwards how Doll lives in his home now.
I really think that is too bad. A lot of her relationship with Araragi is inferred rather than shown, and this is even truer for her relationships with other characters. I'm not sure if it's because NisiO didn't feel there were interesting emough things to say or that he just felt it was better left open. It's weird because of how she and her relationship with Araragi are major factors in a lot of arcs throughout the series.
>When Kaiki compares you to Gaen after your character development
Kaiki is a liar and he always fucks up at the things that matter, I'm not sure I'd take anything he says as gospel.
>What was the job that Gaen Izuko had Ararargi do?
she gave him the talisman that nadako ate, in the arc that snail vanished. she wanted him to chose a god for the snake shrine
>Is the job the reason when Araragi showed up to save Hanekawa he had the ripped hoodie?
nope. he just got back from the past(?) after fighting zombies in a post apacalyptic wasteland on his 'back to the future' trip with Bat.
>Who the hell is Ougi?
idiots will tell you for certain it's araragi or an odity created by araragi. in reality that's a guess. NisiOisiN has yet to explain what Ougi is in any of his books to date. All we know is Ougi is able to change genders. Sometimes it's a "he" sometimes a "she" and often Ougi itself isn't sure which it is at any one time.
>Why does Kaiki have such a great beard
Because he's a
You'd be able to readily tell that if they SHAFT did cheap out and draw Ararararargi wrong.
>your face when you realize they all cut their hair so it'll be cheaper to animate them