Type Moon thread without waifu-wars
No Rin, no Saber, no Sakura, no fighting about who is best girl and which one sucks the most in turn bullshit.
Lets actually talk about the content and lore for a change.
How do types fit into Type Moon cosmology? I still need to read notes so does it help understand? I've always assumed they were existences very close to the root simply because of their power but is there anything to confirm this?
If i wanted to smell curry farts the rest of my life i would of married an Indian.
>But if she has Avalon, she wins.
Not naturally she doesn't; in one route she has it because her master gave it to her. An NP that still exists within the world as a living NP cannot be hers. You'd say "Well Saber should come packed with anything she would potentially maybe have, that's what true heroic Saber would be like after all", but that's not really how heroic spirits work. You don't come packed with everything, Saber class in particular is lucky if they get more than one thing. Assuming what she would or would not have if summoned differently is just a guess at best. Avalon is something she'd only have if her master in that war decided to hand it over, but that would be a bit suicidal. It's still floating around in the world, one might say that an NP that is still alive cannot be summoned, or else there would be two of them. Who really knows how it works, the closest example we might find is if Saber Cu Choo would really have Fragglerock if he was summoned, or if he would not since that NP is still floating around in the world alive.
They're not really close to the root, or any closer to it than anything else. If humans are a one on the scale, and Aristotle are a million, that's still infinitely far away from infinity.
Aristotle are the perfect beings of each planet, the ultimate ones created by that planet to serve as the planet's will. There are things in the universe beyond even planets though, even if we have not seen them quite yet.
Nasu please leave. Hypotheticals, hypotheticals
Meanwhile in CCC manga
Turns out the origin of life on Earth is a loli, just as we all expected.
Nero resembles Saber. Extra Rin resembles FSN Rin. Kohaku resembles Hisui. Shiki resembles Mikiya. Shirou resembles Enjou. Mitsuzuri resembles Ryougi. This is nothing new.
I've had this typed up for hours waiting for posting to come back online.
>An NP that still exists within the world as a living NP cannot be hers.
>It's still floating around in the world, one might say that an NP that is still alive cannot be summoned
That's just your own fanfiction. No rule like that was mention in FSN or HA. "Alive NP", what the hell? Fuck, Gil has the originals of every NP in his armory, that logic never stopped him.
>Gil has the originals of every NP in his armory, that logic never stopped him.
Originals of all NP =/= The NP in question
Gae Bolg is not Gungnir, the difference between an NP that still exists on the Earth is not the same at all as the difference between Gae Bolg and Gungnir the original model. The original model of Caliburn is Gram, but they aren't the same shit at all. However Gilgamesh does not have Gram either, he has the unnamed prototypes that inspired all weapons in creation, as nothing in his vault has a name yet.
None of the Noble Phantasms within Gil's vault still exist on the Earth, or are alive still roaming around. They're all lost treasures, found only in his vault.
The only living NP's out there at the moment we know about are Avalon and Fragnarach. Those are the only two still seen and known about in the modern age. All other NP's have been lost in time, and are unseen in the modern age. If they were known about they would either be sealed away, or magic would be a lot more known these days.
Do you prefer Vampire hunting or wizard wars?
I kinda wish we'd get a full entry in the nasuverse that goes more directly into the cosmic end of things. Unless Melty Blood does that, as I have no knowledge of it beyond a few vs matches
>None of the Noble Phantasms within Gil's vault still exist on the Earth, or are alive still roaming around. They're all lost treasures, found only in his vault.
I hope you realize they were all in his vault before any given hero got them. He had Gram before Sigurd, he had Gae Bolg before Cu, he had Durandal before Roland, and so on and so forth.
The reason Saber doesn't get Avalon when she's summoned is because, unlike every other Servant we see in every other Fate/ work, she isn't a Heroic Spirit. She's summoned as she was in the time between her fatal wound on the hill at Camlann and her death from it, when she only had Excalibur on her.
If it has something that serves a function similar to a heart, it would probably target that. Otherwise, it would probably fail.
I'm pretty sure it would work on Kirei despite Delusional Heartbeat failing.
>He had Gram before Sigurd, he had Gae Bolg before Cu, he had Durandal before Roland, and so on and so forth.
Go reread F/SN, he never had Gae Bolg. He has the prototype of all NP's, he does not have all NP's.
He never had Gae Bolg, he had the thing that would one day inspire Gae Bolg's creation, it's original model. The original model is unnamed, it's not Gae Bolg, it will never be Gae Bolg, but it is the inspiration and origin of Gae Bolg.
To miss such a plot point is the same as saying you never understood how his power worked in the first place. Before it was caliburn it was gram, before it was gram it was some sword that started with M, and before it was that it was the nameless prototype that originated the concept which only Gilgamesh possesses. He does not have all Noble Phantasms in creation, he has the origin of all Noble Phantasms, their unnamed original models which are far superior because they're the true origin of that sword.
Everything you say about "Saber would have Avalon 100% if summoned normally, and she would have that magic spear, and Caliburn" is fucking guess at best. No, nothing has ever said she'd come with all of that, or even anything beyond what she already had. People just like to fanon guess.
Gae Bolg's curse can fell even Arcuied, because it is a curse. Curses have a certain value to them.
What Sakura did was not a curse, she just tore his heart out and exploded it. He no longer had anything functioning as a heart, but he survived on the residual value of what was left inside of him for a day or two at most.
>Before it was caliburn it was gram, before it was gram it was some sword that started with M, and before it was that it was the nameless prototype that originated the concept which only Gilgamesh possesses.
One problem with that. Gil has BOTH Gram and Merodach in his treasury.
So that you know what he's shooting the original model of, since all of his original models are unnamed prototypes. Supposedly the original looks the same as the later model, but is better in all aspects because it came first.
Since the originals are unnamed, it helps to understand what an equivalent measure of them would be for each step.
that doesn't make any sense outside of Nasu's "older = better" bullshit.
Reforged Gram was superior to the old Gram.
Also we know that Cu's Gae Bolg is better than Gil's because Cu himself invented the heart stab
Gate of Babylon makes no sense at all and has absolutly no foundation in the Epic of Gilgamesh.
What does he even have to do with Babylon?
Vampire hunting involves the whole world.
Fateshit is just limited to a city because the whole shit needs a local good leyline and a nearby power source to function in the first place.
Meanwhile, vampire hunting involves a river casino ships and other exotic locations.
Clock Tower's best don't even give a fucking shit about the Grail, just DAAs.
You won't ever see Lorelei give one single fuck about any Grail ritual much less the actual Grail.
Not to mention the head of Clock Tower is 2000 years old and that is a pretty unnatural lifespan to have so it makes one question the race of Clock Tower's head.
The owner shows up as ???, but the weapons are named.
You're a dense fuck. They're "unnamed prototypes" because the names history knows them by did not yet exist when they were in Gil's treasury. Gram is the original "sword that determines a king." It IS the prototype for Caliburn, But Gram and Caliburn are two different weapons. Gram did not become Caliburm.
>Gate of Babylon makes no sense at all and has absolutly no foundation in the Epic of Gilgamesh.
The idea is "Oldest hero, origin of all heroes, thus he is the foundation of all heroes, all things that would eventually become heroes or would be used by heroes sprang from him in some way, and older is better since it's the original".
It's also important to note that often we're dealing with conceptual weapons who are purely objects of mythology that have been passed from culture to culture until ending up as the famous version of that story