Dragon Ball new thread.
People like to underestimate how good the pacing in dragonball is.
We learned about the dragobballs pretty early and they were used several times. We go from freezers first mention to his battle in only a few tanks.
Look at shit like one piece or attack on titan, only designed to keep you interested by dangling a carrot in your face.
One piece is already running double the time of publication of dbz.
If db had pacing like one piece or snk we still would wonder who freezer is and nobody would know what the dragonballs even do, because theyonly got three as of chapter 864.
For some reason japanese manga after the year 2000 have struggled to keep their pacing up.
Dragon ball had proper arcs, where shit with lasting effect happened and the reader learned more about the stuff he wondered.
One Piece still hasn't revealed jackshit
(used >>119708770 and >>119708470 as new OP)
In a timespan where goku went from 8 year old to teenager to grown up, married and became a father, died and came back to life, learned the secret of the dragonballs, his own original, where his father came from, killed the guy who killed his father, had the son of his former rival come back into his timeline, fought the ultimate being, became a grandfather ruffy learned nothing about the world of one piece and we just had battle arc without major story implications strung together with battle arc.
The pacing in new manga is absolutely disgusting.
The problem with this argument is the nature of each serial. One Piece was always more about the overarching adventure and world vs Dragon Ball, where the 'adventure' aspect of the series was long over by the time the Red Ribbon army showed up, with the focus switching squarely to the characters growing stronger.
In general, Dragon Ball is more character-driven compared to something like One Piece, so you have to expect the pacing to be faster.
Also, using the chapter count to talk about pacing is always a bad idea, because not every author's narrative is the same. Toriyama, for example, has admitted on more than one occasion that he only planned the overall Dragon World, with the character-centric stories and adventures being secondary vs Oda already having an overall story for One Piece written before serialization started, where the adventures per-island/region coming after, along with expanding and fleshing out the world.
>If you're taking about the manga, I agree with you
Oh yeah, sure thing.
The anime had it's own pacing issues.
That actually reminded me.
Lots of the new shonen manga (especially bleach) seem to copy the pacing of the dbz anime rather than the manga and completely fuck things up with that approach.
>vs Oda already having an overall story for One Piece written before serialization started,
I don't buy that to be honest.
I think oda is just good at putting red herings in and connecting them.
He hasn't revealed jackshit about the actual world of one piece in almost 20 years now.
When do you think he will start bringing out the goods?
>arriving on Namek
>20 pages later, new villains, ship is destroyed, the good guys are already hiding and on the run
>20 pages later, Vegeta killed someone and is on the run too
>20 pages later, good guys fuck with Freeza and are being chased by someone 10 times stronger than them
>30 pages later, Vegeta has killed someone else, destroyed his scouter, almost killed all the good guys, a Namek was rescued and they're trying to find a plan
this was so good
Do people really think that? I've watched the anime growing up, Kai and now the manga
(thanks MofoGoku)and it's interesting, fun and incredibly entertaining. Freeza's army including Zarbon, Dodoria and the Ginyu Force are all top notch characters.
The hype after Namek where Freeza was robotic was hype, and we're finally going to see how he feels in the new movie.
Just a few facts about dragon ball.
Dragon Ball (including original and Z)
Ran for 11 years and spanned 42 volumes, 519 chapters in total.
One Piece has been running for 17 years and as of now is spanning 76 volumes, 772 chapters total so far.
Bleach has been running for 14 years and as of now is spanning 66 volumes, 611 chapters total so far.
>Dragon Ball could've ended perfectly at Freeza.
This is bullshit and I challenge you on it.
As a kid I loved the cell and buu saga the most.
Especially the cyborgs and mr satan as well as goten and videl are great additions to the cast.
I have no idea how and why people dislike it other than to parrot some lie about "toriyama wanted to end it at freeza" that some fat neckbeard invented 1998 on some anime messageboard.
Not that anon who wants DB to end with Goku dying
I didn't like Cell's beginning but it ended perfectly, Buu was a joke saga but it was fun.
Freeza was the real deal, and Goku was at his peak at the end of the arc, fighting the most powerful existence in the universe on a dying planet about to explode. That was the shit.
Also, Freeza was the best villain, and he actually slaughtered millions of people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgFlQq3jfWU
I'm surprised he doesn't want the terrible future with the androids as the one true story
Ending it on Porunga repoping the Namekians, Krilin and Chaozu, and revealing that Goku is alive would have been so perfect.
The last page would have been a picture of Goku in the yardrat outfit.
The volume here ends with Daddy's Little Princess and King Cold on their way to Earth
The anime added a small scene where they find his debris and rebuild him, it was a good scene.
Then he comes back millions times stronger than before in the new movie, and whoop everyone's asses.
The comparison between Dragon Ball and One Piece are as pointless as comparing One Piece and Bleach.
The chapter count doesn't matter, because the three series aren't telling the same type of story.
Considering Dragon Ball started off as a gag-manga and grew in more action-oriented makes it worlds different than One Piece which was an adventure manga from start until current, with the battles being secondary to the overall story and world-building.
Lastly, Bleach past it's first Ghost-Busters arc, in Karakura town has been non-stop action, with shitloads of characters being introduced/killed off, to the point where it's so bloated you wonder what the fuck the author is going to do with all these characters vs Dragon Ball where Goku and his comrades go through different groups of people and Toriyama, for better or worse, has the decency to allow some of Goku's friends fade in the background as they lose relevancy to the overall narrative.
Toriyama wanted to end dragonball after they found the dragonballs for the first time.
Journey to the west and all.
And he was a gag mangaka mainly in that time.
Glad he kept going on.
>Lastly, Bleach past it's first Ghost-Busters arc, in Karakura town has been non-stop action
Very poorly paced action though.
It feels like a manga version of an anime shonen adaption where people need two chapters to start an attack and everyone else is having reaction shots.
The art style in dbz is so fucking timeless. It's brilliant.
Compared to let's say YYH, which looks really dated, toriyama really nailed a style that never looks dated or dragged down by contemporary trends, even if bulma sports some crazy ass 80s fashion, the way it's drawn always reminds you that it's just bulma being extravagant.
You can see where they decided to add those new scenes that were briefly mentioned
The end of Volume 22, you guys know what's next.
>Very poorly paced action though.
>It feels like a manga version of an anime shonen adaption where people need two chapters to start an attack and everyone else is having reaction shots.
I completely agree with you, but that's more to do with Kubo being an overall fucking awful story-teller more than the pacing being terrible.
I recall him making a statement that Bleach's fights work better animated, but even then it feels like everything is going at a snail's pace.
>I recall him making a statement that Bleach's fights work better animated
Yeah or in other words he makes the manga version of animated dbz fights, which is not a good idea.
The DBZ fights in the anime were so drawn out because they wanted to fill time with stretching it out as much as possible.
If you already do that in the manga you're only making the manga experience as much of a chore as watching the anime.
>I recall him making a statement that Bleach's fights work better animated
Kinda admitting he is a hack when you consider that bleach is 99% fights and even the mangaka agrees that they don't work.
Dragon Ball's great pacing might come from the fact that toriyama wanted to end it after the first arc after collecting all the balls already and he kept going because he didn't want to let the fans down.
So to preserve his sanity he kept the arcs rather short and well paced, because he seems to be the type who would've been annoyed by stretching it out too far as well.
If you want to get something over with you don't start putting in filler over filler.
I dont remember exactly, look somewhere where he first pops up.
It can also be some translation shit that isnt true, i watched Dragonball in german and didnt touch the manga for a long time and it could also be in one of the movies.
Damn i will search too
Why is Yamcha such an asshole?
Tien's a nice guy, after all.
>Most niggers probably stopped watching Dragonball after seeing General Black
Nah, black people don't even see stuff like popo and general black as racist unless some white liberal points it out to them.
I doubt oda has really anything planned out behind the ending.
He might have tons of sketches and notebooks but considering how little we actually know about the world and story of one piece after almost 20 years of serialization we can safely assume that it's not going to go anywhere.
Oda will keep on milking one piece until he dies.
Then jump will have one of his assistants take over and maybe in 300 years we'll get some conclusion based on his original notes for the ending.
Read the Dragon Ball manga if you have not yet. It has better pacing and clearer character motivation. While the fights are obviously better in the anime, the manga is better in every other aspect.
I just rewatched that "fight"
The only reason Gohan could touch Beerus was because he was busy with a pink faggot who stole his pudding, and even then he simply threw him away and then slammed his head into Buu's
And all that happened in 5 seconds
This. The anime also ruins some moments by adding filler.
For example, Vegeta helping SSJ2 Gohan during his clash with Cell. The anime ruined this by having literally every other character help before Vegeta does, making it seem like Vegeta follows the others instead of throwing away his pride and making the decision on his own (like he did in the manga).
It really doesn't matter who does more in that fight against Beerus. The difference between Beerus and the Saiyans is far greater than the difference between Mystic and SSJ3. Plus, even though Mystic Gohan is confirmed stronger than SSJ3 Goku, Toriyama doesn't care since everyone in Japan loves Goku way more than Gohan so Goku will always look stronger than his son in all future releases.
The first time I really noticed, wow, the manga is so much better was Namek in general. Like the fight with Frieza can take like 8 hours to watch in full in the anime while in the manga is like an hour. Vegeta seems less like an idiot, Gohan's potential is handled better, and Piccolo seems more significant in his sudden appearance.
How long after Buu does Battle of the Gods even happen? It's obvious that Gohan was the strongest at the end of the Buu saga, but knowing him he stopped training again and became weaker.
Goku is training all the time, though, so it wouldn't surprise me if Goku surpassed Gohan after some time.
>Retconning all over the place
Can you give an example? I really can't think of any that stand particularly out, except for maybe the thousand year Super Saiyan thing, and that's barely a retcon.
Reading one piece these days is like having a simualted stroke.
It's just a mess of disjointed faces, speech balloons and constantly switching scenarios.
In one row of panels you got sanji and zoro fighting a bunch of dudes at one part of some island in the next panels you got robin running around with usopp on an entirely different island or some shit and behind all those panels is another giant panel with something entirely different happening (maybe ruffy and some sidekick of the week teaming up to fight another giant enemy).
It's all so disjointed and jarring.
I really wonder how many people still like or follow the narrative in OP or just read it habitually like I do.
Sanji is like yamcha. Nobody would miss him.
And while you're at it also get rid of that skeleton, he's been in the party for almost 10 years now and he hardly does shit.
Get rid of the strawhats if you wanna fix one piece.
Oda had the general end-game of the series, the final war and what One Piece is itself planned from the beginning, as well as the general layout of his world (pic related) and how the SHs would make their way there. Sure, over time he's probably added in new villains/islands he didn't originally plan, but the underlying things appear to be orchestrated.
Also I don't think he'll keep milking it, he wants to get to the end because what he's planned for it overrides everything we've seen so far. At the timeskip (~4 years ago) he said there was around 10 years left for him to finish meaning there's about 6 left, but he tends to misjudge times like that (since he originally thought he could write his whole story in 5 years), so my guess is maybe 7-8 left
How big of a hack is Toriyama? When he was planning out his series, did he think ahead at all, or think about consistency at all when he was writing it? So much shit gets retconned and changed on the fly as the series progresses.
>How big of a hack is Toriyama? When he was planning out his series, did he think ahead at all, or think about consistency at all when he was writing it? So much shit gets retconned and changed on the fly as the series progresses.
Toriyama is on record that he never planned anything and just made up stuff as he went along.
But there are not that many retcons. Not more than in other series.
I really hope Frieza makes the second wish to turn him immortal.
Also they could make Hell canon which explains how Frieza got so fucking strong.
Imagine that, an immortal Frieza whos on par with SSJG Goku, shit would be cash