Why can't Western anime fans accept anime for what it is?
It's always the same in reviews like this
>the anime is good because of X, Y and Z
>but uh, uh, uh, the devil of fanservice is there too
>not freaking out
>not calling it disgusting or pathetic
>not complaining about otaku or pandering
That write-up is refreshingly reasonable to an absurd degree. You should be singing its praises, not whining about it.
They've obviously watched Nisemonogatari, if they mark down "Incest Fanservice Humour" as a negative then I'm getting the slight feeling it might not be the show for them.
I get the feeling they might be a bit grossed out by Incest, just a feeling. I wonder what they feel about the rampant loli fanservice.
It isn't bad, though. It addresses a perceived flaw, provides reasoning for that perception, and does so without passing judgment on the people who disagree.
There are probably thousands of anime reviews that actually support the OP's view, yet he chose one of the precious few that don't.
Not that anon but basically what you're saying is. "He's reached the basic standard of how a review should be written"
We should give someone a pat on the back every time they do what is to be expected of them?
>Can't into words
The criticism is not badly written and is reasonable, even gives hints on how it would have been better if they changed a few things.
Just cause you love your incest it does not mean they should put all their efforts in incest scenes almost at the level of a porn when the message the author wants to give is different. It is almost hipocrisy.
Like Me!Me!Me! where you catch both types of idiots with a show, the 2deep4you loving ones and the PLOT loving ones.
>Just cause you love your incest it does not mean they should put all their efforts in incest scenes almost at the level of a porn when the message the author wants to give is different.
The fuck you know what message author wants to give.
The Kotaku reviewer says that Monogatari points out the absurdity of incest fanservice, but comes off as hypocritical because of how much it indulges in it.
Personally I see that as the point of said fanservice. Nishio just winks at the audience, "we all know this is a stupid fantasy", but then goes with it happily. That's the opposite of hypocrisy, it's honesty.
That's legit criticism though, it's common for anime to criticize or parody something but in the end it ends up being exact same thing as those series it's making fun of. Oregairu comes in my mind.
Because most idiots are in fact idiots and don't understand that different cultures have different valuea and that what they might perceive as wrong and unjust is normal and acceptable in other places.
They're in fact blind towards people other than the ones within their own country and judge or criticize based on their own, little, experience of life.
In short: They're dumbfuck nerds.
Cause accepting fanservice and sexuality is not hipster enough.
Usually the rare instances inwhich i look for reviews, when the writer or the tuber start talking about fanservice, grimdark, and shock factor, is when i stop read/watch and add another name to my black list and another title to my to watch/read list.
Given how fucking atrocious the West's track record is with this sort of thing, the "basic standard" isn't expected at all.
Why would you not encourage people who choose to apply tact and effort in a vocation that thrives on being as lazy and sensationalist as possible?
Because they want to sound intelligent for hating on everything that doesn't conform to your average society, i.e. they're shit.
Just enjoy your chinese cartoon and ignore reviews in the first place.
Or maybe it's because criticism doesn't mean the creator is negative of it. It could be because the creator actually does like it and hence willing to explore it further, which includes examining the flaws.
>Oregairu comes in my mind
I can agree with you on that example though.
You're talking about an ancient story, it has nothing to do with modern Japan.
Or if this is the case then why Europe isn't okay with incest if Greek gods fucked each other all the time?
This. Everything we see on the media/blogs/reviews.
Everything is so politically correct its stopping evolution(thats not the right wording but bare with me as English it not my native language)
I've given up in the human race, we are absolute trash.
Bullshit. All japanese media, even non otaku related and even way before the word otaku was used to define anime fans, never shyed away from some light nudity. Only recently they are americanizing.
The basic standard SHOULD be expected. It's the basic standard for a reason.
If someone doesn't meet the standard then you don't pay them any attention. If someone does meet it then do give them your clicks.
Just because Western Journalism is currently shit doesn't mean we should lower our expectations, we should keep them at the level where we need people to be and just ignore the stuff like clickbait articles.
Their reward is our continued support. The fact clickbait articles are a thing is what makes this entire situation a thing. Which is actually something I agree with you on.
There is nothing wrong with criticism, but simply stating your disagreement with something is no criticism. It's basically whining that not everyone likes the same thing you do.
I have to ask -- how many of the autists on this board who believe incest should be a normalized concept actually have siblings of the opposite sex?
>stop talk shit about my shitty fanservice pandering, it's masterpiece. bla bla
You just asking for this, faggot
Europe is okay with bestiality though which is how the Minotaur was produced.
There are legal animal brothels in Europe where you can fuck animals.
So again, you should lurk more.
Normalized concept doesn't mean a majority has to be up for it. Western countries think being gay should be considered normal despite gay people being a minority. Incest is no different, but Western leftists look at it differently.
This is cause amerifags and many westerners in generals have such a deep-rooted idea that everything related to sexual exploitation is the shit off the shit, and nothing in any circumstance or context can be good if is about sexuality, that their brain caannot even process the concept of "good but fanservicey" their ears would begin to bleed.
"Fanservice is the shit! Period! Shut up! And if you like it is cause you're a masturbation obsessed retard!"
Lets take my main criticism as the point of reference here. It's going to make me sound a lot more Otaku than I intend to be but fuck it.
My issue is that they marked down Incest Fanservice Humour as a negative.
Now this is applying a western viewpoint on a Japanese product written by a guy who is selling his entire series on Wordplay and Fanservice plus a company that is using that source material and combining it with slick visuals to make a high selling product.
Marking down a selling point as bad is just completely missing the point. It's like saying. "Oh there was too much talking" or "There were too many Japanese references."
Whether you enjoy Incest Fanservice Humour or not, it shows a complete lack of understanding in the show you are reviewing if you aren't at least understanding why people are watching it and the demographic it is trying to target.
Yeah, the matherfucking 60s lots of time ago.
And why today the mentality is regressing to pre 60s like a fucking taliban invasion? What the hell our parents did wrong? We should have been the free sex while listening to metal generation.
It's not different at all if all involved parties are above the age of consent. The fact that you think it's different itself shows how Westerners have been conditioned into thinking.
I'll give you that.
However it's never been more prevalent than in this current times with the advent of the internet connecting the entire world with everyone suddenly thinking they can be journalists on their blog.
Germany was okay with animal fucking until last year so pretty much since Germany's conception as a nation, animal fucking wasn't banned until 2013.
So just because you banned animal fucking 2 years ago still doesn't change the fact that for hundreds of years, you allowed animal fucking.
>Why can't Western anime fans accept anime for what it is?
Because they're mostly SJWs and normalfags - or rather, they'd like to be normalfags and yearn for acceptance. They're insecure people who are afraid of being judged, of being considered deviant - which is quite amusing, because these sorts of people usually pride themselves with being "different", "hipsters", etc.
On /a/, we're different. We've given up on society, we revel in being reviled.
I eagerly welcome any sort of fanservice, if only for the reason that it deters the insincere and makes them fell unwelcome.
Then Monogatari still isn't the show for them. It's prided itself on being Fanservice. It's been a plot point multiple times.
To the extent their immaculately animated panty shot is the very first thing you see and is the very first event which sets of the entire series.
The second episode is 10 minutes of Senjougahara naked or changing clothes but even that is justified by the context in which she doing it.
>The basic standard SHOULD be expected.
Why would you expect something that is statistically improbable? That doesn't make sense.
Anyway, it was originally directed at people like the OP who are functionally illiterate and can't distinguish between "acceptable" and "burning bag of dogshit."
>pokemon is satanic
>videogames turn you into a killer machine
>the queen is actually lizardpeople and she will attack us soon to claim what is hers
Well, you're a creepy fuck and you're probably proud of it. See, this is what incest anime can do to a person. You don't even understand what is morally wrong and right.
Sorry, but otaku culture is creepy as fuck. Incest isn't treated as some kind of forbidden love, but a disturbing sexualization of little sisters (naive girls that will do everything to their brothers). And guess what? Family rape is the most common kind of rape.
In that case take the review for what it is:
A western viewpoint on a Japanese product
If you think that there review holds no meaning because the writer does not belong to the product's target group, then you are in no position to judge his review, because you obviously don't belong to his target group.
That logic holds no ground. Even people who do not belong to the product's audience should be free to review the product. You're essentially reviewing his review. If you only let people who admire your work review it, you'll never receive any worthy criticism.
>Why would you expect something that is statistically improbable?
Because we need to keep this dream alive, anon. We need to believe there is a goal to reach so that we don't continue to fall into shit.
If we lower our standards then we will continue to lower them as the situation gets worse and worse.
If we're able to against all odds reach the fabled basic standard then we will have succeeded.
Or some equally uplifting speech preaching that humanity isn't completely shit and that we can make ourselves better
The funniest thing is that these people don't realise that they're the exact same thing as Muslims demanding bans of depictions of the prophet because it hurts their feelings. It's the exact same thing.
>You don't even understand what is morally wrong and right.
How about you go fuck yourself and grow up. There is no right and wrong in terms of morals. The concept of morals itself is standing on thin fucking legs. If anon wants to fap with his imoutos pantsu he can fucking do that.
And if you only let pessimists review your work, you'll never get any praise. The person doing the reviewing should be a fan of the work. That means there actually is some credibility to their judgement. You're right in saying that it can lead to receiving no harsh criticism, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
Let's go with a simpler example. If I want to buy the most efficient car available, I'll go to someone who actually knows the shit they're talking about. I wouldn't be asking a hobo which vehicle has the best fuel efficiency. I don't give a shit if he can speak like a lawyer, that'll just be plain stupidity.
Not OP, but I agree with you. It seems like when it comes to being a deviant, say like watching anime, there's an "accepted" way of doing so and you have to watch the right series (eg. "Attack on Titan" for fuck's sake) and think the right opinions in order to be accepted.
Every time I hear someone say they've recently gotten into anime and they've started watching SnK or SAO, they think they're so different from everyone else. But at the same time they're still conforming to watch the same drivel like with Western TV shows.
The quality of a Monogatari arc is directly proportional to the quality of the girl it pertains to.
This is why Crab's and Nadeko's arcs are the best, and why Hanekawa arcs are shit.
I don't think it lacks meaning. I just think it should be taken with a grain of salt because he is going into a series he knows what to expect and then complains about what he's seeing even when he knew what to expect.
He's a western person looking at this thinking. "Hmm, it's got incest. Which is something I don't like." which is 99% sure a cultural opinion, hence why I stated western.
Then he's reviewing a show which sells itself on stuff like Incest Fanservice Humour.
It's like watching Yosuga no Sora and saying you didn't like the last arc because of the incest.
He's going into a show he should understand he's not going to like and then marking it down negatively because he doesn't like it even though he knew exactly what he was getting in to. He watched Nisemonogatari, he knew better.
Because there are westerners that want to push western "values" into anime, to the point that we will stop watching anime because it will become a copy-paste of western cartoons.
thank god the japs never listen too much to what the outside world tells them
I'm no weaboo, I don't want to be japanese but I admire them for that
-monogatari might be full of gratuitous fanservice, but it's predominantly known for being banter: the anime.
It's not unreasonable for someone to really enjoy the banter and not the fanservice.
Or another way to look at it: you can find gratuitous fanservice anime anywhere, but well-executed banter anime is something unique to -monogatari.
Did you go into Oreimo knowing it was incest? You don't have to like OreImo. I don't but I'm not going to mark down a show for incest when it's entire premise is "My Little Sister Cannot Be This Cute"
OreImo is just a terrible show in general. Even if you don't like Incest.
There was a time when I complained about these things too (fanservice, loli, etc) but then /a/ made me realize that I actually love these things and I was just pretending to hate.
I'm sure those faggots feel the same way.
Nah, even if I watch vietnam cartoons I still have some standards.
They're nothing but fanservice, fanservice, fanservice with a side dish of exposition, not to mention their characters are shit. I know Monogatari is not the pinacle of characterization and development, but when some girls have it good and other have it absolutely bad it hurts the experience.
Crab is a good character, Nadeko not so much but her arc is fun. Cat is too 3D for anons, that's why you hate her.
It's the other way around, anon. If you set the bar too high, the writers down in Burning Dogshit Valley won't even be able to see it, and thus won't even try to strive for it. By setting the bar higher bit by bit, we may be able to finally reach the Steins;Article worldline.
Like any medium/genre there's good and bad aspects. Stop being an autist and realize that your opinion isn't special. Your image is retarded too though, Monogatari is a bad series with or without fanservice.
>I'm sure those faggots feel the same way.
No. Those faggots are concerned that their audience like, so they can get more hits. They also get hits by enraging retards like /a/nons, and getting them to spread their articles. Clickbait at work. This thread is part of it too, just that OP forgot to post the link.
>Stop with the character-driven shows that are more about the lives of the characters than some grand plot with a big bad!
>Stop with the episodes that are just the characters screwing around!
>Stop with the drawn boobs that make me feel uncomfortable!
>Stop with the teenage protagonists!
>Stop with the shitty Japanese humor!
>WRITE YOUR JAPANESE SHOWS AROUND MY WESTERN TASTES
What I don't get is why these people are even watching anime to begin with.
There are thousands and thousands of shows out that do exactly what they're asking for. It's called western television.
What does it matter? It's not like any of their reviews do anything.
Just ignore the idiotic fucks. Maybe one day they'll get that stick surgically removed out of their ass and finally have fun. Until then, just laugh at 'em. Their stupidity is frustrating? Don't read clickbait in the first place.
>If I want to buy the most efficient car available, I'll go to someone who actually knows the shit they're talking about. I wouldn't be asking a hobo which vehicle has the best fuel efficiency. I don't give a shit if he can speak like a lawyer, that'll just be plain stupidity.
That's a different topic, because a car will have it's up and down sides. Anime, or shows (or even entertainment in general) are a subjective matter, which is why there will be no objective opinion, unlike with cars. With cars it's closer to math.
Like I said, in that case take it for what you see it as:
A western viewpoint on a Japanese product
It will help the average american know wether he'll like the show or not.
The only way I can think of a compromise between you and the author would be, if the author mentioned that he obviously does not belong to the targeted audience. I think if that was the case, no one in this thread would complain.
Wait you mean that there is some kind of connection?
Whoa there, anon. Gratuitous implies its tacked on. That 10 second Panty Shot is the shining example of Monogatari's high standards for interweaving ecchi fanservice and plot together.
As for the banter part. I think that's why most people stay for Monogatari. I'm not going to deny that. It's probably the main selling point even over the fanservice but that doesn't make the fanservice less of a selling point.
My issue comes from saying the fanservice is a negative in a show that actively prides itself on having well done fanservice. You remove the Fanservice from Monogatari and it's no longer the same beast.
Other shows with actual gratuitous fanservice like generic harem #90012 where the girl falls and gives you a non-sequitor panty shot could have that scene removed and not lose anything.
I think incest in real life is kinda fucked up. Dunno if it's because I have a oneesan, but it just don't work in my head.
But in anime, I'm like pic related
>I think incest in real life is kinda fucked up.
If both parties are willing, I see no problem with it. I have a little sister and I would never touch her, though.
2d makes everything great, by the way.
When people try to spout dumbassery while trying to be all "i'm better than you" like the reviewer in OP it always upset me. Fuck "is an opinion", if they are free to make shitty review, i'm free to complain about how shitty are their review.
When faggots bitch about incest in 2D, I immediately lose all respect for their opinion and condescendingly attack them as hard as possible. The words "retarded" and "pathetic" are my personal favorites.
Two siblings giving birth to a child raises the chances of retardation. Other than that I never understood why it is "wrong".
Somehow the topic came up a few months ago with my father (we were watching the news or something) and the only reasoning he had against incest was that it's "wrong". Right.
A woman and a man loving each other is ok.
Two faggots loving each other is ok.
Two dykes loving each other is ok.
Two siblings loving each other is apparently wrong.
It's not like incest is my fetish but who am I (or who's anyone else for that matter) to tell two people that it's wrong to love each other?
Who cares? You're not okay with it because you don't feel like fucking your sister? That's some fucked up shit right there. I like incest in 2D as well but I would never fuck my mom or non existing sister. But what is the fucking problem if you do actually feel like doing it and your significant other is all for it? There is no problem. It doesn't affect me. People can fuck dead cows for all I care. Just don't do it in front of me.
My example definitely was a bit flawed, but my main point was simply to say a reviewer who is interested in the product has more credibility than someone who's reviewing just for the sake of it.
>The only way I can think of a compromise between you and the author would be, if the author mentioned that he obviously does not belong to the targeted audience.
That would be ideal scenario, except I can never recall such a case ever happening before.
It's not too high. It's the lowest we can possibly put it before we start falling into shit. Also fuck I hate you so much right now. You're making me want to rewatch Steins; Gate. I haven't watch that in years.
You know, I think they were sidetracked by the fact Kirino was unlikable and just wished so hard that the title was a misnomer.
He could just not put under "Bad" and put it as its own thing. Maybe just explain that if you don't like Fanservice that you might not be the kind of show for you.
Honestly, even if westerners were importing BDs by the shipload, the complainers still wouldn't get what they want.
The Japanese have always had a very hard time understanding foreign thought processes. Attempts to cater to foreigners usually don't turn out well, and they tend to see them as one united entity with a single set of opinions. Which is why they're surprised when they find out that there are westerners who want stuff like Senran Kagura, Neptunia, etc.
Also, unless the fanbase is overwhelmingly western (i.e. Zelda or MGS), the Japanese will gear their works towards Japanese audiences and just let the westerners respond as they will. That's really for the best, given the above.
>"we all know this is a stupid fantasy"
He said that Monogatari was originally masturbatory piece of writing he did for himself but ended up published, that's why is actually good and why it has incest.
To be honest, fanservice gets stale after awhile and is almost always subpar to what you can get on sadpanda. I kind of wish they stop doing it altogether, as less fanservice almost always equates to more and better doujinshi. Also, 90% of the time it feels forced and juvenile, which makes it far less likely to excite and far more likely to get an eyeroll. Again, the superior product is on sadpanda.
We've been mired in this turdsea for ages, anon. It is clearly too high.
>You're making me want to rewatch Steins; Gate.
Do it, faggot. I just rewatched it a couple weeks ago and it's still amazing.
The movie had its ups and downs.
western anime fans need to understand that their opinion on anime doesn't matter now and wont mater for a long time. its like somebody in russias opinon on the next US election. what do people hate fanservice so much? its literally a service to them. anime is visual entertainment so why would you want to watch still shots of the background or just two characters standing next to each other talking when you could have cool stylized shots of legs/ass/tits or anything to keep your eyes on screen?
Hindsightfags are hilarious. You can search in some database how many titles have imouto in the title, and how many of them actually have a full-blown incest ending. And no, not related doesn't count.
>anime is visual entertainment so why would you want to watch still shots of the background or just two characters standing next to each other talking when you could have cool stylized shots of legs/ass/tits or anything to keep your eyes on screen?
I'd rather have not boring shots.
>Two dykes loving each other is okay
Nothing wrong with cute, lewd 2D lillies. Just their hideous buzzcut 3Dshit world counterparts. And the only thing against incest is retarded moralfaggot stigma perpetuated since who knows when even though the most kind and noble men in the Old Testament were spreading pure love left and right and having actually happy harems.
Sure that is possible (and not okay) but I was talking about what >>119950257 mentioned.
>Two adults able to give consent that happen to be brothers or cousins.
The emphasis is on adults who are able to give consent.
He's disliking a show based on it's selling point. He's not even uninformed either, he watched Nisemonogatari, he knew exactly what he was getting in for.
He's denying the show's other core concept. I don't think going into something you know you're not going to like is going to be fair to the show you're reviewing.
I think the different is point there is incest and "wholly shit there is incest and messing up the show"
I mean if the incest is is ruining the show they might have a point.
That is why I hate western anime fan base for bring their expectation in anime.
It had a movie?! Oh sweet lord just how long has it been since I watched it. All I can remember from it now is that Suzuha, Masta Hakka, Tuturu, Kurisu...actually, I remember a fair bit. Though that movie is definitely on my list now.
>It's pure otaku bait that pretends to be something more.
I don't think the show pretends to be something more.
Monogatari is a peculiar example because it's one of the few shows that are actually very much otaku oriented but appeal to a wide audience. Mostly because of the somewhat unusual art direction and how the first season started off more of a romance story (featuring vampires nonetheless) rather than the harem anime that it actually is. This gave normalfags a wrong impression of what they're getting into. Now they're confronted with this show they've liked and they're trying to make sense of it. Rather than admitting to themselves that they've enjoyed a silly, otaku oriented harem show with plenty of fanservice, they're trying to attribute deeper meaning to it than it has. Some are denying the harem aspects - claiming it were nothing more than a regular romance story, some are attempting to find allegories within the fanservice, others are blowing Araragi's character out of proportion, claiming he was such an usual and deep character never found before in harem anime. The whole show is surrounded by this huge bubble of fanwankery coming from a part of its fanbase that is simply in denial about what type of show it is. Monogatari isn't a bad show, it's technically reasonably well made, or rather they made a lot out of very little given its slideshow character - but it certainly doesn't pretend to be more than it is. It's the fanbase who does.
This also tells you a lot about these sorts of mature people who watch mature shows - they care more about the reputation of a show than its actual content. They're not the discerning viewers they claim to be, but they're sheep who watch what others claim to be good and regurgitate those opinions rather than being able to make up their own mind. And this shouldn't come as a surprise: they only watch a fraction of the shows available after all because everything else is "beneath" them. They lack experience.
Fanservice is ok, so long as its kept to the point where one can easily ignore it. It does become annoying when a good chunk of a 20 minute episode is spent forcing characters into scenarios that don't even resonate with their characters. And honestly, if you want to see porn of the characters, there are ways to do that without ruining the show in the progress.
I wish anime had more geniune sex scenes that are in compliance with character rather than a male protagonist accidently rubbing the female's tits and awkward moment ensues as the female slaps the guy and drops her towel in the process. Just let them fuck instead. Atleast you'll skip the pandering criticism that way. But I guess otaku would be too frightened of two characters actually bonding in a sexual manner.
What a beautiful discussion without resorting to ad hominem.
I'm being serious. You guys >>> 99% of /a/
It's because of autists like this that we end up with 500 post threads of people who can't tell the difference between the atmosphere and context in the "walk me home gently" scene and the toothbrush scene in Nise.
An OVA episode and a movie, in that order.
My only real complain with them is that the original ending was too good, so if you weren't crazy about the ending then you should enjoy it.
You mean the part where they teach you about recessive genes? For example blond hair or different shape of face? There's a reason why human-grown fauna and flora are often of the same lines. You can get desired results more easily.
Higher chance of rare recessive genetic traits because very similar genetics are crossing each other. Although actually only one generation of incest between brother and sister is not significantly higher than a normal non incest pairing.
What the fuck does that kind of shit have to do with anything, you stupid faggot? How does that makes Oreimo's ending any less fitting regardless of the actual quality of the characters themselves?
Pic related is your typical normalfag.
Why even give a damn about people with below shit-tier opinions.
Just let them rot on fuckbook or whatever in obscurity surrounded by their own retarded kind.
Meanwhile I'll keep on enjoying the good stuff instead of reading things sure to further degrade my faith in humanity.
Such is the will of Steins Gate.
I think from memory (don't use it as a reliable source. It's been a while) I liked the ending. If I recall HOUOUIN KYOUMA actually manages to get shit done like a boss.
So I should prepare myself and/or my anus for some mild disappointment about the movie/OVA or should I be alright?
>Undetermined in Texas
What a surprise.
why do people hate fanservice? if I had to guess most people watch anime alone so its not like people are going judge you for a 3 second flash of drawn boobs. western movies/shows almost always have nudity or sex or bikinis etc and everyone gathers together to go see those and no one says anything. the problem is that normal Western people see anime as 100% hentai loli tentacle porn so theses fags want ANYTHING remotely sexual removed so they can say "I like anime but I dont like that weird gross drawn fetish stuff. im not like them!"
A lot of hereditary diseases are recessive, i.e. they're only physically (phenotypically) exhibited on your body if they're present on both chromosomes. If one of your parents is a carrier of such a disease, both you and your sister could have inherited it and be perfectly healthy individuals. If you had children however, they could inherit the disease from both you and your sister and thus end ill.
Still, there's no guarantee for this to happen. Incest might as well result in completely healthy children. However, if done throughout generations, the chance for something nasty to happen is obviously larger, which is why it should be avoided.
All this fanservice is DISGUSTING.
Japanese animes don't ever represent the true social trends, where are the transgender people being referred to by their chosen pronouns where are the feminsts actually making the world a better and more equal place.
this is DISGUSTING, you're all SICK.
I agree. We should be rid of fanservice in anime as a whole so that it will truly be something worth praising by both yourself and your peers.
I mean, come on. Why would anybody want the fans of a series be serviced. That sounds stupid and does not only offend me but the integrity of the content itself as well as its creator. Servicing fans? Simply baffling. It does not coincide with my and, most likely, other people's tastes and is nothing more than disservice to every involved in its production.
Fanservice. Service for fans. Psh. How inane and immature.
It's a boring and overused scenario, but it's by no means proplematic.
Fanservice is just fine as long as it doesnt result in shit like mandatory swimsuit episodes in every manga/anime ever, complete with by the books interaction
"I'm so jealous of your enormous boobs"
"Hey, lets peek on the girls"
>peekers get caught
>girls throw random shit
every fucking time
Unisex bathing is not a big deal though. Some people even do so even after being teenaged or even older.
Westerners have this extreme view that any sexual imagery automatically equals extreme raunchiness. Even at Monogatari's raunchiest, it's pretty damn vanilla.
It's really hard for anyone who seriously likes anime to not wish for the industry to move past some of the things that weigh it down.
The little sister love interests are becoming this awful stock thing where they are in shows because that is now the norm. Incest love interests were not always as prevalent as they are now.
Obnoxious "cute" animal mascots for nearly every show also used to be a thing. There were times where like 80% of shows had these. They were awful and it made sense to criticize it.
There are fads in anime that don't actually touch on the core of "what anime is" they are just bad trends that ruin shows. They were usually done right somewhere, but come off as stupid when used for no real reason.
While Araragi's little sisters actually add something to the series and are there for a purpose, there are like a billion shows where they don't.
i thought its going to be family friendly comedy about brother and sister overcoming family issues and work together, not this bloody soap opera
am i supposed to expect bestiality when watching how to train your dragon?
The fuck did all of you say about me, I've been browsing 4chan since 2007, so how dare you call me a newfag. Kids like you don't even know what /a/ was like in it's good years or seen classics like Eva, and lotgh. I bet all of you aren't true Japanese connoisseur s like me.
I'm going to have to leave it for tomorrow. I think I know what I've got planned for tommorow though. Gonna rewatch me some Steins; Gate and then the OVA then the Movie.
Maybe get some food and make a day of it.
>Why can't Western anime fans accept anime for what it is?
Tell them they're racists and ethnocentrists for forcing their ethnocentric and racial "superior" views on the Japanese and their culture.
Besides, the Germans are thinking about legalizing incest anyway.
>yfw japan doesn't give a fuck and just goes full otaku. miku in the opening ceremony, 2D art everywhere and catgirls with seifuku as far as the eye can see.
No, its just paranoid faggots in certain parts of the world who think fucking your family members will result in the end of human society and as such must be killed for it.
I can understand killing off the dog fuckers, they're just wasting precious space but c'mon, if a brother and sister love each let em and live.
>And the only thing against incest is retarded moralfaggot stigma
Actually the main thing against it is inbreeding depression and recessive genetic problems. Pakistanis, for example, have been following the tradition of marrying their first cousins for centuries and as a result they have a huge problem with fuck ugly deformed mutant children. If people were fucking their sisters it would be even worse. If inbreeding depression wasn't a real thing, people would have probably embraced incest long before homosexuality. But nature likes to remind the human race that it is objectively wrong by giving you retard babies for doing it.
>even though the most kind and noble men in the Old Testament were spreading pure love left and right and having actually happy harems.
This actually made me laugh. What are you referring to? This is like the Judeo-Christian equivalent of saying Muhammad fucked an 11-year old girl so everyone should do it.
Ganbatte, reasonable-kun. You should post a thread with your impressions after you finish it.
Nope, me and my brother bath with my older cousins(3 females and 1 male) all the time in summer since we live in the same house but there is nothing sexual about it(except the time they commented on my brother's butt but let's leave it at that)
Otaku culture IS a part of Japanese culture. You idiot. That's like saying gun culture is not a part of American culture because not all Americans take part in ownership of firearms.
It's like they don't understand post-irony.
It's all about blending and oscillating between sincerity and irony in a ridiculous way that gives the impression that you're both completely sincere and also completely ironic about whatever you're doing.
They already banned sexual acts between two sibling in my animu. What more do they want?
"Japanese Culture" died with the second world war.
It's just been constant idolization of western values from there on.
I suggest you read some late Japanese modernists sometime, especially The Setting Sun.
>yfw "they aren't blood related, one was adopted at a young age" excuse
Incest stories will evolve to transcend that which is taboo and bloom into a whole new brand of miracle so it can truly be fit to be called the purest form of love.
>drawings are literally just thoughts expressed on a digital or paper canvases
>there are people in this thread who are pro-thought policing
>believe that it should be punishable by law if you express thoughts that they don't like on paper
>have probably accused someone of "abusing free speech" at some point in their lives, completely failing to see that stopping the tyranny that people who use such phrases would impose on society is one of the wisdoms behind the concept
Welcome to 1984.
well some of the peepz in the Parliament are trying to go against that.
They want to show to the people in the west that japan is a "normal" country and not some creepy stereotype.
However i don't think they will be very successful in doing so.
also when is some one going to kill that bitch that wants to ban loli
>And these same westerners
That's just the conservative westerners.
The liberal westerners basically do the same thing, except what they do is "you're all racists for trying to enforce your white culture on all these foreigners, but feminism is okay to enforce on the foreigners even though it's a completely western-made philosophy."
I think it happened in the games.
>That is like the Judeo-Christian equivalent of saying Muhammad fucked an 11-year old girl so everyone should do it.
They're being filthy hypocrites who just look over the parts they don't agree with yet worship these men all the same. David and his own son had multiple wives and everyone knows about and respects them. No one even flinched at the idea of marrying a cousin then and it's not even painted in a bad light yet these same retards will call incest "evil".
Im pretty sure most people agree that Nisenmonogatari had a bit too much fan service. Normally they do a lot of teasing but Nisen had too many panty shots in between the normal teasing and they didnt feel self aware.
Man, I don't make threads. I just post in them.
Also totally not smart enough to understand a show within one sitting. If I were to post my impressions, it would be during a random S;G thread after I've watched it multiple times to make sure I understand.
Monogatari has forced me many a time to rewatch arcs when someone mentions something like. "Kaiki uses the Car Crash as his excuse for deaths because of it's impersonal nature and yet because it was how Tooe died" and then I have to go back to Nise and see that he did indeed use that excuse, then go to Hitagi End and see he uses it there as well and then go back to arc in which Kanbaru mentions her parents died in a car crash to check.
No, it didn't seem sarcastic at all and that's what threw me off. If you were being sarcastic then I would expect that but someone actually being sincere is off-putting for /a/.
>abusing free speech
I don't understand this bull.
Free speech is supposed to be offensive. Why would you need protection of free speech if you're not offending anyone?
Even a fucking pornography magazine owner gets this.
I hate that the term fanservice is always associated with nudity nowadays. Originally fanservice was every additional information that was of interest to the viewer. Of course seeing your favourite characters naked is part of that, but let's take for example those scenes in SNK between the commercial breaks, where a lot of stuff is explained, like how their weaponry works, etc. That's fanservice too, in my opinion.
Well, i did that when i was 8 years old. Did not try again after that. We basically grew up together almost as if we were brother and sister.
Nope did get kicked. She just called my name a little angry and then stopped.
Moral relativism and values pluralism is the rhetoric by which the PC liberals are destroying the EU and US.
Canada already has legalized Sharia law. The world has gone crazy.
Western values are superior and the world would be a better place if we stomped out inferior belief systems.
>This actually made me laugh. What are you referring to?
"And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife."
No it isn't faggot.
I'm convinced everyone who is "disturbed" by incest and gives this reason only doesn't like it because it brings up uncomfortable feelings of latent attraction to their own sibling that they don't want to face.
>It's the exact same thing.
>Im pretty sure most westerners agree that Nisenmonogatari had a bit too much fan service
I'm always happy that westerners are completely irrelevant to the decisions made by anime studios and Japanese game studios.
16 year olds are perfectly legal in most of Europe. Also, if they're so easy, how come most of /a/ are still virgins?
In any case, this is a non-issue because being attracted to girls who exhibit traits of sexual maturity, as is the case with most 16 year olds, is completely normal. There's nothing pedophilic about it.
Some 20 year olds are fucking idiots, too.
Plus a large percentage of teenagers start having sex at like 13 and 14 but nobody wants to admit their pure children are already fucking.
And in fiction why does it matter?
We can have killing prostitutes and all sorts of murder and violence in media and nobody gives a shit, but even insinuate that teenagers might be fucking and suddenly you're a child molester.
>Why can't Western anime fans accept anime for what it is?
Because sjw hate it. Anime has gotten too popular and mainstream. Sjw hates anything more "cool" and popular than themselves. Thus they want to CONTROL what's cool and popular. Just like how they are trying to control video games right now.
>how come most of /a/ are still virgins
Because we're a bunch of cowards, duh. You want to roll up next to a young girl in my brothers mini van saying ay gurl, wanna party? I don't fucking think so.
It's not hypocrisy if it's associated with feminism!
I'm sure that the western academic and political communities will begin openly scrutinizing this shit eventually, but who knows when that might be, and it's a little scary to think of what they might get away with while they're seen as a group that are above analysis and criticism.
Just because Bible thumpers are stupid hypocrites doesn't make incest right, it just makes them equally wrong. This is a great example of why all religions should be disrespected for the stupidity they promote, not just islam.
Atheism too, fuck those pseudointellectual retards
I don't think it's just that. It's also that 16 year old girls don't like us any better than older ones.
It's not just that - even if we were slaves to 3D, we'd probably still be virgins. We'd be the "nice guys" from /r9k/ listening to their problems, fixing their computers, etc. - however, we're smart enough to realise that it's not worth the effort.
There's nothing inherently "right" or "wrong" about incest. You probably shouldn't have kids if you're going to do it, but beyond that why the fuck does anyone care if two people want to fuck?
>It's also that 16 year old girls don't like us any better than older ones
But the younger ones are easily tricked with lower income. 20$ is alot to them and you get more out of it than you would a hooker.
Talking like this I'm starting to scare myself.
>But it's disgusting
Disgust is just an opinion. Muslims might find it disgusting that you eat bacon, but that doesn't mean you're in the wrong for eating bacon. Some people view homosexuals as disgusting, some view sex without a marriage as disgusting, some view sex as disgusting, some view all humans per se as disgusting. It is not a logical argument
>But it's not normal
Many things are abnormal and yet accepted. Homosexuals are abnormal, yet most of the west accepts them, same for transsexuals, same for a lot of sexual deviants. Even lefthanded people are technically abnormal but no sane person would argue for banning lefthandedness
>But the children might be genetically defect
That is only an argument against incest with impregnation. And then only if you argue against other things that can cause genetical defects. With every year of the mother's age, the risk severly increases, thus we'd have to establish an age limit on pregnancies, if you're over 20, you're too old and must not get a child. If you have defect genes, or are even just related to people that have, you must not reproduce.
>But [Religion] says it must be banned
Then we have to follow all religious rules. Which is not only impossible, due to contradicting rules, but goes against the secular principles most of the west has been built upon. Go to a middle eastern muslim shithole if you desire religious rule.
Have I missed any arguments people make against incest?
A meme is everything that gets spammed for no reason nowadays.
Also, most people don't want to have sex with people they grew up with because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect
That doesn't stop me from having a fetish for other people being incestuous though.
You're just flaunting your own ignorance in people's faces. Atheism has always been about scepticism more than denial.
I question the existence of a god and won't live my life based on his rules without given evidence for his existence.
I don't rule out that he exists, just like I don't rule out that the tooth fairy, vampires or santa claus exists, but I consider the likelihood slim enough to not bother.
I know, right? Why can't they just accept that the whole monogatari series is nothing but a big wank festival for forever alones who dream of doinking their sisters or catgirls or a myriad of other women.
Your mother has murdered 50 people.
Sure, all of the evidence that you have on hand makes this seem like a pretty ridiculous notion, but you can't deny it, since you don't have knowledge of what your mom does when you're not around.
I'm pretty sure Charlie Hebdo comics don't equate to pedophile drawings. Charlie Hebdo draws offensive satires of Islam, for example, in order to provoke thoughtful reflection and point out hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance in the people who take things for granted without thinking about it.
If Charlie Hebdo published a comic about lolicon, it wouldn't be to encourage it, but to point out how fucked up it is. That's not the same as posting lolicon on the internet for people to fap to. The latter is openly encouraging the sexualization (and therefore harm) of children, which is wrong and contributes nothing to the marketplace of ideas. Hence it doesn't get protection under free speech and gets outlawed under obscenity laws.
Sickos are always trying to compare two completely different things and convince people they are the same, in order to justify their warped beliefs about what they should be allowed to get away with.
Cool epic reddit maymay faggot.
If people put 1/10 of the effort they spend redirecting anyone they disagree with to /v/ or reddit or wherever into their posts this place would suck a lot less.
Not really. Show dogs were inbred for a long time to select desired traits and ended up with a ton of unexpected side problems. The problem is that gene expression is still not completely understood. There isn't always a one-to-one correspondence between genes and traits, in most cases it is one-to-many or many-to-one. In some cases, expression only happens due to factors during pregnancy or due to factors during early childhood. Also, there is a certain degree of entropy built into the system that requires "refreshing" from non-similar sources. The whole reason we die "naturally" is because our cells can only divide a finite number of times before copying DNA fails to produce viable cells.
I don't think incestuous relationships are bad any more then I think gay relationships are bad. They have a role to play in preservation of the human race. But those in incestuous relationships should seek to have children alternating between using donor eggs or donor sperm to reduce the risk of problems with inbred children. That's how pack animals do it.
>The latter is openly encouraging the sexualization (and therefore harm) of children, which is wrong and contributes nothing to the marketplace of ideas
Charlie Hebdo's drawings encourage persecution of religious minorites, as found in the third reich or soviet russia, which is wrong and contributes nothing to the marketplace of idea.
The west wants to Japan to ban loli because it's offensive to them.
The Islamic states want the west to ban Mohammed cartoons because it's offensive to them.
Fuck you, moralfags.
No, that is atheism.
You're completely misunderstanding what agnosticism is. Agnosticism is a philosophical attitude which denies the ability to know things with certainty. You can be both an atheist agnostic or a theist agnostic.
If you're asked "Do you believe in god?", then you don't answer the question with "I don't know" - this is a yes or no question. If you answer with "No" then you're an atheist.
I wouldn't care if Christfags are right. I won't respect a faggot like God and I'd gladly burn in hell for it with the rest of my fellow champions of pure love.
I believe in a higher power that helped build the universe, but I'm not religious. This can instantly shut down an argument with a retarded Christfag or the bad kind of atheists.
>The latter is openly encouraging the sexualization
That is very dangerous.
Because this can apply to just about every form of entertainment or philosophy.
>action movies are openly encouraging the commission of violence against others, which is wrong and contributes nothing to the marketplace of ideas. Hence it doesn't get protection under free speech and gets outlawed under censorship laws.
>atheist literature are openly encouraging the commission of offensive acts to religious symbols and holy places, which is wrong and contributes nothing to the marketplace of ideas. Hence it doesn't get protection under free speech and gets outlawed under censorship laws.
>drugs in video games are openly encouraging the use of drugs, which is wrong and contributes nothing to the marketplace of ideas. Hence it doesn't get protection under free speech and gets outlawed under censorship laws.
Charlie Hebdo comics depict something some people find deeply offensive and revolting. They have to tolerate it however because freedom of speech is about tolerating the expression of others even if it hurts your feelings.
It is the exact same thing.
>>But it's disgusting
Disgust exists for a reason. It serves the purpose of keeping people away from unhealthy things. People just ignore their innate disgust simply for the sake of seeming enlightened and above such things.
Wow faglord, nice jump from "drawings of fictional children" to "child rape."
I guess next time I play a violent video game you should be afraid I'm going to come murder you in your sleep, too.
>no sane person admits to be an atheist in public anymore
>backlash against atheism
I don't really see it. You have a few reactionaries who feel bullied by people on the internet writing mean things about them, but in general there isn't really a backlash.
This might be different in the US though, in Europe there certainly isn't. Being atheist is considered normal here. Religion is something you keep to yourself.
Disgust doesn't always indicate unhealthiness. People find pineapple on pizza disgusting, that doesn't mean that pineapple is unhealthy in itself or in combination with pizza. Should their personal taste be forced on others?
Try clicking a loli thread sometime. They always admit it's not just a fantasy to them, and they would fuck real little girls if they could. It's only a matter of time until they rape. 2D corrodes the mind
I don't really care for fanservice to be honest. It doesn't bother me that much but I would prefer it without.
I usually find shows that don't sexualize characters too much to be more enjoyable. The characters tend to need more substance than just relying on making them look just barely naked for the viewer.
Really it's problem of trying to fight any type of freedom of expression. People often fail to realize that in order to protect the freedom to express yourself in the manner you choose, you have to protect that right for other as well even if disagree with what they're expressing or find it morally reprehensible. I think it Neil Gaiman says it best here http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html , and I'd encourage anyone who considers themselves a defender of freedom of expression, but considers things like lolicon, or incest, not worth defending.
What backlash? Other than faggots from /pol/ forcing how religious they are because "muh degeneracy"?
Yeah, maybe people are a little more aware that there are atheists that are fucking annoying faggots. Just like there are plenty of religious people who are just as bad or worse with their zealotry.
>We need to ban violent media, because it makes you violent!
>That's ridiculous! I've never known a real life murderer!
>We need to ban satire of Islam, because it encourages bigotry against religious minorities!
>That's ridiculous! I judge people on a case by case basis!
>Oh yeah, same guy from the latter two opinions here. We need to stop lolicon, because it turns you into a real life pedophile.
Double standards are completely okay when feminism and taboos are involved.
I swear, people's brains just shut down when it comes to criticizing ideas that are associated with any sort of civil movement. There's an old saying: "You're only as strong as your weakest link." As an egalitarian myself, there's nothing more dangerous than letting hypocrisy and ideals that don't match what they claim to represent run unchecked.
This makes me wonder how common pedophilia is in Japan and how much of it goes unreported due to Japan's hierarchy system. Fuck, apparently it's very common for women in subways to get molested by men wanting a quick squeeze.
Well fuck. Thank you for opening my eyes.
The effects of media on human behavior is truly shocking.
We should ban everything shouldn't we? Ban games. Ban TV shows. Ban movies. Ban comics. Ban cartoons. Ban everything.
Shit. We should ban 4chan as well. /a/ in particular.
You see this fucking shit? This is exactly why faggots who actually want to fuck 3D little shits should be forced out. I told you this is exactly what kind of shit those shit taste subhumans would result in.
>more guns give rise to more murder
Here's a healthy dose of NRA
>violent films give rise to violent actions
Here's a healthy dose of Hollywood and FREEDOM
>2D cartoons will give rise to child rape
HOLY HELL WHY DIDN'T I REALIZE THIS SOONER. BAN THAT PIECE OF SHIT
>because it turns you into a real life pedophile.
The worst part of this statement is that you said "pedophile" but this is already equated to "child rapist" in most peoples' minds, whether they act on it or not.
All hail the thought police.
Western community is kind of hanged up onto an non-existing ideal of "clever viewer". I mean, if you watch show with fanservice and complain about fanservice then you are retarded. Generally, you ought merit a show on a basis of what it's actually trying to accomplish. Wanting philosophical overflowing from comedy is stupid. Also, open-minded people can enjoy many different things for what they are worth it.
> daily reminder that Yukimura Makoto loves moe anime and manga
>Should You Watch It? Yes.
>The Gundam SEED universe takes all the best from the U.C. Gundams and updates them for a modern audience. It is the perfect Gundam gateway drug and what you like or dislike in the C.E. timeline can be used to gauge which other Gundam series you will enjoy.
>It's a story with no dull moments and is perfectly paced from beginning to end. The characters are interesting, realistic, and will have earned a place in your heart long before the final credits roll.
Okay, this is politically incorrect as fuck, but some women do get off on rape fantasies, and chikan is the closest reasonably safe thing there is to it. Some women /do/ want it.
I'd also want it.
Human beings are impressionable as fuck. We are constantly molded by our environment. That's why cultures can differ so greatly and why human history is so vivid and varied. The belief that human beings have a set of core values within is bullshit. We're just glorified holes for information to mold us. We are bred to adapt, and in order to adapt, we must absorb all information there is.
I'll remove my limbs and have my brother carry me around 24/7. It won't matter if I say I fap to loli. Now it's literally impossible for me to be a danger to anyone's children.
>Y-you just hate it because it's cooler than you! Y-you just hate it because you're not popular!
>Implying you are popular.
>Implying you're in the majority and SJWs are the minority.
>Implying anime is popular and mainstream to begin with.
>Angry that videogames are becoming extremely mainstream and popular and misogyny is headed out the door.
>ERHMEGERD IS HAPPENING TO ANIMU NOW
A classic libtard mentality. Instead of focusing on actually substantive issues, lets talk about the fantasy of your little group being persecuted by prejudiced SJWs. Please go back to reddit.
Fanservice is shit and I would prefer it didn't exist, incest or no.
Why is everyone in this thread talking as if they aren't Westerners?
Most manga authors are moefags.
Miura is one of the most well known and he is slowly turning it into moeserk. The punpun's guy love K-on and abe is a kancollefag.
Baka gaijins just cant appreciate art.