>>120409632 He's a bitter old fuck, and like most bitter old fucks he has a a "back in my day" mentality. He's basically just mad because when he was young anime was a super sekrit club and now its mainstream.
>>120409798 >He's basically just mad because when he was young anime was a super sekrit club and now its mainstream. He's not mad that it's mainstream, he's mad that the industry's pigeonholed itself into making pandering wish-fulfilment garbage for otaku.
I understand his frustration, but I wouldn't say it's reasonable to say anime was a mistake. Someone's gotta reclaim anime though. It's really hard to claim that the otaku-pandering isn't a problem. Every other show is about lesbian lolis or a variation on some sort of girl-raising game. Sometimes we get manga/VN adaptations, but even those don't take any risks.
>>120410219 It was in the west, but that doesn't count because that's not where anime is from.
Anime is in a pretty shitty state though, couple oddball shows a year don't change this. I mean, people in this thread are throwing around stupid shit like 'try-hard' when talking about creators having any ambition or vision. Without them, all one can make is superficial garbage and Miyazaki's outburst is proven right.
>>120410742 Hating Miyazaki has been cool ever since Spirited Away gave Ghibli more exposure. Due to the logic of internet meme shitposting, every movie and show Miyazaki has ever worked on is now irredeemable shit and you're a [insert current trendy insult] for liking them.
Anime used to be art, but now its a just a corpse getting fucked endlessly for money. Disgusting that after all these years, very few works can be considered works of art that are on par with the West.
If you don't know the difference between film and cinema you have no fucking right to reply to me you pleb. Watching animes dulled your artistic senses you wouldn't know a Cinematic experience even if it fell on you.
it might be Ivory Tower criticism but he's perfectly right. Most anime today are just fanservice / harem, slice of life or shounen shit. There are a few gems like Shirobako, Amagi Brilliant Park and Ping Pong, but they don't get the recognition they deserve.
>>120409922 You mean like every other industry in existence? He's been saying this shit since the 80's you know. And there has never been a point in time where anime wasn't pandering to otaku. In the 70's and 80's it pandered to mecha otaku.
I'm laughing hard at the "oldfags" in this thread. Take it from someone who has been watching anime since the 80's, there is a lot more good shit now then back then. People bitch now about moeshit and haremshit, and pretend the previous decades were some golden age of diversity. You faggots do know that 1 out of every 3 anime back in the old days was a mecha, they pandered way harder then than they do now. In fact because there is so much anime now there is a shitton of variety and creativity every season.
50+ anime a season with only 3-4 of them being harems and people bitch about over saturation, imagine in the 80's when there was 15 anime a season and 5+ were mecha
I wish people would take off their nostalgia goggles. The only reason you faggots think anime was great back then and shit now is because you only remember the handful of great anime in the sea of shit. Just like in 10 years from now people will be screaming "the 00's were a golden age for anime! Not like all the shit we have now!"
>>120411778 The quote is somewhat out of context. He was saying that a lot of modern anime is created by people who don't understand real social interaction, and movement and only know anime thus create shit characters, dialogue and animation
>>120408839 >"It's difficult. [My female protagonists] immediately become the subjects of rorikon gokko (play toy for Lolita Complex males). In a sense, if we want to depict someone who is affirmative to us, we have no choice but to make them as lovely as possible. But now, there are too many people who shamelessly depict [such protagonists] as if they just want [such girls] as pets, and things are escalating more and more."
>>120411739 Please, your shitton of creativity and variaton is just different takes on the trashy harems, idols, shonenshit, mecha, etc. Back in the days sure we had pandering shit like today but it still had a few well written gems every year. Now it's just huge piles of garbage with a gem once every year.
>>120411910 No, you need to have experiences and perspectives in order to write well. It's no coincidence that often, the really good writers tend to be either batshit insane or gone through some batshit insane stuffs or both. If you lack the experiences or perspectives, you have a really limited pool of ideas to draw from.
>>120412120 Nah, dude, that's just the way the stupid people see it because everybody talks about writers as "rock stars". The reality is that artists are all fucking shut ins that lived their life either drugged and fucking whores in their house or shutting in and practicing their skill. What you need to do in order to write a good story is to study writing, and practice.
>>120412183 >>120412174 Please re-read my post >have experiences AND perspectives >tend to be EITHER batshit insane OR gone through some batshit insane stuffs OR both They don't contradict with your posts. At all.
>all fucking shut ins Nope, a significant number of them are shut ins. Not all. They all shun society, but in different ways. Some shun by being shut ins, some rebel by doing controversial things.
>is to study writing, and practice Similarly, this doesn't contradict, it's more of a complement.
>>120412093 Everything is based off tropes. There hasn't been an original thing written in literally hundreds of years in any media, stop pretending please. Also you have it backward, now we are guaranteed at least 1-2 great shows a year whereas in the old days it was 1 great anime every few years.
>>120411627 No, it pandered to children. Animes audience has since changed to pander to the debatched fantasies of those children, now grown-up.
Children's shows that aren't toy commercials or fighting anime are a real rarity now. Even the 70s which it had it's fair share of toy commercials still had stuff like the WMTs and others. I feel bad for kids these days.
Oh I see the problem, you are judging based on your shit taste. I was trying to apply an objective standard. A masterpiece as in any work of art that leaves an impact and significantly changes the medium it's published in. But your apparently just going by "I like this show so it must be a masterpiece", carry on then
>>120412836 Dragonball and One Piece are, whether you or /a/ agrees or not, in fact masterpieces because they warped an entire genre around them. Every shounen fantasy / action manga draws on elements from Dragon Ball and One Piece. I personally hate One Piece, but that doesn't change its impact on the medium as a whole. Naruto didn't contribute anything to the medium, it was just a popular show riding on the coattails of Dragonball and One Piece
>>120412898 Really? I agree with some of Miyazaki's points, but in the end, I just feel like he wants more of the stuff in the industry that he likes rather than what's better for anime as a medium itself.
>>120413110 If you haven't realized yet, majority of art in general exists solely to pander to whatever is demanded for the sake of profits. The best example is Hollywood of course where all the big money lies. Majority of the blockbusters are so formulaic it hurts.
>>120412967 Oh wow, just kill yourself. You have no fucking idea what the word masterpiece means. Yes I won't deny that they are indeed influencial but hey because they pander specifically to a certain demographic, not because they are well written. I regret discussing the state of anime with a retard like you. Sorry for your autism, hope you will recover some day.
>>120413301 >Not surprising this bastard has the hump with the anime considering he uses the same thing for all his movies. His brain? Yeah, no wonder you don't like him, since you have no common ground with him.
I don't mean in terms of being "better" if that's what you're thinking. I want a Tezuka, Fujiko Fujio, or Miyazaki 2.0 not just by style or hype. I hate that the west is holding Miyazaki as a shining beacon but takes no inspiration to do something. They worship like Jesus Christ ir something. I sometimes wonder if Cartoons can be saved.
Right that most of it is trash? Of course it is. Most of everything is. But he has no authority to decide for the world that anime as an entire medium was a "mistake". His arrogance in thinking he does is colossal.
>>120413686 >But he has no authority to decide for the world that anime as an entire medium was a "mistake". His arrogance in thinking he does is colossal. Who has the authority to decide for the world then? Do you? Because you seem quite adamant to decide for the world that he is wrong.
I decide for ME that it is wrong, which is all I need to do to invalidate his statement.
Anime was not a mistake because it's brought me many beautiful, thoughtful stories and has enriched my worldview in positive ways, and despite his claims has given me many strong, intelligent, kickass female characters who I esteem as far more than mere fetish fuel.
Anime was not a "mistake". This would be the case even if it was just true for me alone. But it isn't.
>>120413976 >Anime was not a "mistake". And again, you are attempting to decide for the world that anime is not a mistake. You are doing the exact same thing you are faulting Miyazaki for doing. And if I need to choose between you and Miyazaki to decide this, I'd go for the one that has actually done something and not the one going "anime made my life better, kickass women".
I don't understand where you get the hubris to decide that your personal assessment of anime gives you the right to invalidate Miyazaki's opinion.
I don't understand where you get the hubris to "choose between" me or him. You're making the same error he did, speaking for other people. I don't speak for anyone but myself. You can call that "hubris" all you want, but at least it isn't presuming for others.
It's fine if you take his side. I'm really quite sanguine on the subject, because anime does and will exist. Let him continue to wither away on the wrong side of history if he likes. He's impotent to stop it, as are you.
I agree with him in a way, the anime industry certainly needs to work on its presentation and writing, but that said, I think that Ghibli stuff is not really my cup of tea and the fact that Miyazaki acts like it's the pinnacle of the anime industry bothers me.
>>120414391 >I don't understand where you get the hubris to "choose between" me or him. Do you perhaps have trouble reading? I said "if I need to choose". It is a simple opinion of whose opinion I value the more. >You're making the same error he did, speaking for other people. Who am I speaking for in this case? Also, how noble of you not to include yourself in this list, despite the fact that you have been doing that from the beginning. >I don't speak for anyone but myself. Except by saying that Miyazaki's opinion is deciding for the world and then saying he is wrong, you are deciding for the world his opposite point. How can "anime was a mistake" decide it for the world but "anime is not a mistake" not? >Let him continue to wither away on the wrong side of history if he likes. And now you are deciding the history for the world as well. Congratulations.
>>120414939 >And now you are deciding the history for the world as well.
It decided on its own without his, my, or your input. That's the whole point. I don't have to decide for the world. It already did. I just have to decide for me, and that's all it takes to overturn his statement.
Further discussion would seem to be pretty unfruitful at this point, so I'll leave it here.
>>120415213 >It already did. This is not an universal truth. It is your opinion.
>I just have to decide for me, and that's all it takes to overturn his statement. It doesn't work like that. If a historian says "slavery was a mistake" and I say "no, slavery was not a mistake", it doesn't invalidate his opinion, which probably is more educated than mine. And that is exactly what you are doing, but for some reason, your hubris lets you think that you have the right to do so.
And yes, you should probably leave this here. Your ability to hold a rational conversation and process concepts logically are as bad as the images you post.
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