>"Mary Sue" today has changed from its original meaning and now carries a generalized, although not universal, connotation of wish-fulfillment and is commonly associated with self-insertion. True self-insertion is a literal and generally undisguised representation of the author; most characters described as "Mary Sues" are not, though they are often called "proxies" for the author. The negative connotation comes from this "wish-fulfillment" implication: the "Mary Sue" is judged as a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting
of course the gary stu is the male version of this. think Wesley Crusher or Onii-sama
>>120769636 >That definition applies to most anime protagonists, unsurprisingly pretty much.
which is why the ragefests about is he or isn't he a gary stu is so funny around here. most anime leads are gary stus due to the japanese habit of making the MCs a flawless blank wall for self insertion.
By doing so all that's left is a character too dull to be interesting, loved by everyone, and able to solve everyone's issues as if by magic. obviously the more dull betamax mcs aren't gary stus... and well written alpha dogs aren't necessarily gary stus either. but a huge swath of anime leads are gary stus in some way or another, with Onii-sama standing near the top of the heap.
Gary Stu and Mary Sue generally have a negative connotations since it is a lazy written character because they are typically have no flaws. Is it possible to have a well written one that is the main character? I could understand having one as comic relief as sort of a comparison thing, but could you create a character that is either a Gary Stu/Mary Sue but at the same time be considered interesting.
>>120769636 >>120770724 The "too perfect" part is debatable. While there are certainly characters like that, I think most anime protagonists aren't too perfect or flawless at all precisely because if they were they wouldn't be very relatable.
Rule of thumb for being a classic stu, If a melee soldier is able to cast and nullify magic like a wizard class of his level, and also being intelligent like a scholar his age who didn't attend BMT, all without sacrificing any of his resources (eg: time, health, money, and no emotional flaws), That soldier is a stu (see also, shoujo manga princes).
>>120771478 >Rule of thumb for being a classic stu, f the world does not revolve around the character in question, that character is not a Stu. The character needs to be the main character not just for the audience, but for people in-universe as well. When side characters' primary defining features are their relationships to the MC, then that's a good sign that he's a Stu.
the biggest problem is so many people seem to expand the meaning of gary/mary sue. You could be a super special snowflake, without being a sue of any kind. The main characteristic is being perfect, and being important to everyone in story, aswell as being important to the people outside the story. The character is almost never wrong, and even when they are it's half assed. Example, Levi beats on Eren pretty hard to the point of ridiculousness, he gets called out on it, but it gets hit by the "heh, did what I had to." with no repercussions.
Bigger example, batman is more of a sue, than Ichigo.
>>120772095 >fights pirates with a magic gun >gets a gynoid waifu with a brown catgirl and a japanese assassin lusting after him >has a special ship no one else in the universe has that's basically the best ship out there (it is at the very least the fastest) >not a wish fulfillment character
He has a lot of qualities that in the hands of a less talented writer would easily make him a Gary Stu. But he isn't because they remembered to give him a good personality and more importantly, flaws
>>120768992 I'd say the general traits of a Mary Sue/Gary Stu are being OP to the point where it makes everyone else look incompetent and/or useless, having the entire universe revolve around them even if it doesn't really make any sense for it to and to a degree where it's just absurd, having no real flaws that actually impact them or the story in a negative way, having either no personality whatsoever or a personality entirely based on angst so they can look deeper and more interesting than they really are, solving most/every problem they face with no apparent effort thus killing any tension the audience might feel along with their interest and incentive to keep watching/reading, generally being a super special snowflake who knows more than everyone else or is better at something than everyone else ever or has some incredibly special ability or item of some sort (usually of the variety that makes them more OP), having every character of the opposite sex fall madly and inexplicably in love with them basically at first sight, and of course, being so attractive that everyone can't stop mentioning it (though that last one tends to be more common in self-insert fanfics than actually published work). Of course there can be different combinations of these traits and I'm sure I left some out, but those tend to be the biggest problems that I see.
i feel like his ability to solve shit other people cant is reasonably explained in that being able to see the world without an iris in a completely different way than his peers and the respect/affection his friends have for him seem pretty well earned
The dude is literally an asocial, autistic human wreck who is only good for fighting mech battles. How is he not flawed? And he is the most interesting character in the series. By reading this thread, you should realize that gary stu doesn't mean "a character I dont' like".
>>120774383 That wasn't because he fucked up, it was because Slaine was throwing a tantrum. Not to mention that turned out to be a net positive for him with his stupid robot eye.
>>120774409 But it really hasn't. No one really treats him like he's weird or anything, other than a few comments from Calm to his sister and Rayet calling him stupid. Inko gets frustrated with him but she always gets over it offscreen. It hasn't caused him any real problems or created any real conflicts at all.
>>120774591 >That wasn't because he fucked up, His fuck-up was way earlier when he failed to get Slaine to understand the meaning behind his hesitation and instead got into a shooting with him. Slaine mistrusted him when he didn't need to. A true Mary Sue would have recruited him then and there. Instead he got himself knocked out for 19 fucking months, and the princess MIA.
Besides, if he'd been a true, calculating Mary Sue he'd been able to recruit Slaine even after Asseylum was gunned down. Instead he pulled his gun.
>>120774409 Not him, but do elaborate on the strains of such relationships. Does it hinder the story or provide inconveniences to Inaho in any way? Did he learn how to tackle such problems (character development)?
>>120774664 I can't even say that was either Inaho or Slaine's fuck-up, to be honest. The entire situation was so contrived and forced I can only blame it on the writers. Neither of them answered each other's perfectly legitimate questions honestly for no real reason other than that the writers wanted them to end up on opposite sides, but couldn't think of an actual legitimate reason for them to end up deciding to be enemies there, so they just wrote WHOOPS MISUNDERSTANDING TIME! And then no one fucking bothered to bring it up afterwards, let alone criticize Inaho's response to Slaine. It was beyond stupid. As for episode 12, while pointing a gun at Slaine was a stupid move, I don't think there's anything Inaho could have done or said to Slaine to change what happened there.
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