>Animator gets 9400 dollars annual
>Seiyuu gets everything
What the hell?
This is like being surprised the hollywood superstar gets paid more than the key grip or gaffer.
Big names can sell a series! Directors, producers or studios might sell a series too!
But invidiual no-name animators? No one watches a show just for that. They're interchangeable and disposable.
Plus, that's only for "a-list" voice actors. For every one there's like a dozen random schlubs paid peanuts and working another job to pay the bills.
There are only a handful of seiyuu who get that kind of money. If you only do voice acting, you won't live comfortably in Tokyo.
Seiyuu lead a hard life.
Look at Zuka
Failed all your audition, get harassed for sexual favor just to land a role only to end up in the ero business and JAV once you get discarded by the anime industry.
A-list seiyuu. So like what, 2 dozen people in the entire goddamn industry of thousands?
But that lowest number always bothered me. Is she working part time? Or as a trainee or something? If she was an in-betweener or something, sure, but she's working on key frames, right? This can't be right.
I wonder how come western animators have all the dosh just to make the simplest thing from flash? It seems like their ads throw money into cartoons just for the heck of it, and they can even hire celebrities to voice their cartoons.
Yeah, but paid minimum wage?(assuming this is income after taxes otherwise it's even lower than minimum wage) As an in-house animator for an actual animation production company working on key frames?
My autism always goes mad when I see that chart and realize that CG animator (which I would like to have no at all in my chinese cartoons) makes more than traditional animator. Hope it's bullshit.
I make as much as an executive producer in japan? I seriously feel like I'm poor though, like I have hard times and don't live richly, at all. Is that graph right?
You need to be making 100k in the US to have any kind of decent life.
How much better though?
And how many western animation studios are there? There's not that many cartoons on tv nowadays. It's easy enough for Disney or Nick to film some shitty kids sitcom.
"A-list" voice actors are different from your normal voice actors aka the type of people you might come across on every show.
"A-list" VAs are people like Nana Mizuki and Yukari Tamura who are idols, Ono D. and Mamoru Miyano who are actors, Keiji Fujiwara and Takehito Koyasu who are company managers, and last but not least, Sugita and Nakamura who host their own show.
It's a great time to be an animator in the west.
>incredibly low standards for television series means almost no effort on your part
>movies now employ more CGI artists and animators than they do camera crews
>work is heavily divided and departmentalized to increase efficiency so you end up spending all your time animating some guy's right eyebrow or something and still pull salary
Its a great time to be in the west
Every other economy is munching dicks right now. Wonder how long it will last...
>movies now employ more CGI artists and animators than they do camera crews
Anon... Hollywood outsourced CGI to India. All the medium/small studios closed, it's the very few big studio backed ones still employing americans.
Why is this a line graph? Do you know anything about charts?
They probably take a bunch of part time jobs at once so they can support themselves until they hit it big as a voice actor.
Of course, most of them never reach that point, so they just end up older and with no respectable work history.
It's kind of like idols, either you hit it big or you're left with nothing, having wasted the best years of your life chasing an empty dream.
Well, if your native currency is the euro, dollar or pound, then yes, everything is going to feel incredibly cheap.
While eating isn't terribly expensive, Japanese housing prices are beyond the roof (heh), and an average day of public travel (bus, subway, etc) will cost you as much as you'd spend in a week anywhere else.
You have to chase the dream because you can't live with yourself if you don't, and then you have to deal with being a failure.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to de-lint my fedora.
Does Japan have phonesex?
The US military pays a Cost of Living Allowance to personnel stationed in Japan. In the Tokyo area, I get $600 ~ $800 in COLA with the shitty yen rate right now. The lowest off-base housing allowance rate here caps out at 155,000 yen/month. On Kyushu it was much lower.
I don't know for certain, but I can think of 7 not including Okinawa or those military housing areas that serve other bases. There are no bases on Shikoku or Hokkaido, as far as I know, and Sasebo is the only base on Kyushu.
That's how the world works now anon. The hardest jobs are paid nothing, people who do nothing get millions. I've seen this everywhere I worked. Even in this economy, you should create your own business if you have an idea because you can't move up the corporate ladder if you have no connections or if you're not a woman willing to spread her legs, and most jobs are outsourced.
Why does it matter that animators are more replaceable? Aren't they still humans that should have a salary proportional to their hard word?
Good animators get promoted to be episode director, series director, chief animator and some even go on to be a studio founder..
If you cant draw well and has no talent, you will always be the lowest of the low like Ema.
>salary proportional to their hard word
That's not how it works, silly.
It's smart work, not hard, that pays the most. Would you like the lowest tier construction workers to be paid more than for example the architect who designed the building they make?
Ema isn't treated like human?
She gets long lunch break, has freedom at her work place, can dance during work hour, learn from her senpai and has less stress than Aoi.
She is freshie, it is just like medical student doing their internship. They wont get paid well.
No that would be pretty conflicting, all I'm saying is that first world countries that have tried evening out salaries in the workforce have generally gotten more out of it in terms of social stability.
Why don't people grasp the concept that the chart isn't an indicator of the profit distribution of an anime?
"A-list seiyuu" describes someone who is basically an idol in every respect. They have a producer and spend all of their non-seiyuu time on TV, doing live shows, events, etc.
That chart could also be profits from drug deals.
I think the image is kind of misleading because voice actors have multiple sources of income too. They get paid for their voice acting work, of course, and they probably also make money if they opt in to do promotional appearances or stuff like radio programs, then there's the fact that they can appear on multiple projects in relatively short span of time compared to anyone else in that graphic who can maybe do 2-3 things at once MAYBE, and then depending on how successful they are, there's stuff like music sales, photo books, personal (non-character) merchandise, etc, etc...
A successful seiyuu is a money-making brand unto themself
Social stability is not an endgame for the company that hires the animators. Unless the government steps in, they're not going to change it, and even if it does, it may only lead to complete outsourcing of the animations to Korea.
Anime does not generate a lot of revenue. It's mostly used as an advertisement for the original work, or makes profit from selling merchandise. If you wanted to double or triple the salaries for animators, this money would have to come from somewhere. Look once more at the chart - the Executive Producer, who is responsible for everything in the show, does not get paid 10x the amount of a single animator. The A-list voice actress? You could count them using only your fingers in the whole country, the rest gets crap like everyone.
My point is, there's no mystical 1% you could take the money for animators from. Anime simply does not make enough money to make it possible for the wages to be increased by a significant amount.
>Aren't they still humans that should have a salary proportional to their hard word?
They're paid according to the scarcity of people able to do their job. Big name actors get paid a ton because they're good at it, their presence can help boost sales, and more to the point, they can leave if they decide they're not getting paid enough.
Customers will easily notice a change in actor, which can potentially hurt sales (especially if it's an important role), but an animator leaving will typically be impossible to spot, on account of animation being done by groups rather than individuals.
tl;dr version: supply and demand, animators get paid less because their product is less differentiated than that of actorss
Here's some relevant article to get the discussion going.
How can Ema fucking survive with that yearly income?
I made 7k/month and I think I am underpaid myself.
It is fucking tokyo, the rental is already around 80k yen/month for a 1LDK if she is living in Tokyo. It boggles my mind. She basically can double her income if she works as a beer girl like zuka with less working hours. Work passion?
Can someone post the anime documentary where the dude said he became an animator because he likes drawing cute girls?
Quite a bit, that I even throw money to sekai project at steam instead usually pirate it.
It's hard to throw my money around because I didn't have CC, and I am not a honest taxpayer to get one.
being seiyuu is harder
especially a famous one
you need to be always perfect/in your role.
one mistake is the end for career and reputation.
not to mention dealing with people you dont like.
not to mention no serious relationship (or any at all) until the end of career which will probably be after 25.
and even if you managed to avoid any scandal. rumors will still exist. good luck finding a decent husband with that backstory.
/a/ pays me in dick pictures for all my hard work shitposting. I then used all of those pictures to start a voyeur website for women to look at dick pictures. I now rake in $2200 a month from my dick pic web page. So, I get paid $2200 a month to shitpost on /a/, what a wonderful life.
>tfw i earn 50 thousand dollars a week
>tfw i earn an extra 2000 making use of those tumblr sub humans
>tfw all those shekels epens
>tfw ad revenues fron urls and web links and clickbaits
I never that i became the jew i never wanted to become.
check the voice actors of the last anime you just saw, their date of birth.
I'm not saying there are no old VA, but they are very few in comparison and you can alsmost always hear them when a certain role is casted, like Rikiya playing Kerry like character
>you need to be always perfect/in your role.
>one mistake is the end for career and reputation.
Where did you get this? If anything their popularity lets them draw regardless of quality of performance.
>not to mention dealing with people you dont like.
Like anyone with a job.
>not to mention no serious relationship (or any at all) until the end of career which will probably be after 25.
Not true at all. It's when you act like a total whore that fans start turning on you.
I still don't know what does pure math does.
It is all about passion. They dont care about getting paid.
Do a phd in it and it'll let you make 300k starting
What the hell is wrong with you? Either you're an idiot who doesn't know what you're actually talking about, or you live a way to slavish lifestyle, most people i know get by nicely on around 50/60k per year.
> People like Yuasa, Shinkai (?) or Umetsu.
lol. your lack of knowledge is such a gaping hole in the fabric of time-space i feel being sucked into the inescapable vortex that is the void inside your head through TCP fucking IP. god bless your poor soul.
i don't know a lot about, say, marine biology or space rocket combustion engines or lebanese 19th century literature. that's why i don't comment on these things. it's common courtesy.
Hey guys I am stupid and I don't know anything about how anime or media in general is created.
Could someone kindly explain to me what the difference between "animators" and "CG animators" is?
Also how is a college student earning more money than an animator when they earn no money at all because they are going to college? Do you get paid for going to college in nippon?
I am confused.
She already got recognized as surprisingly good by like her 3rd audition and only lost out because they wanted a more recognizable name.
Surely she'll be able to get at least a decent part soon.
I could devote 20 hours of every day of my life to hitting a rock with a hammer as hard and fast as I possibly can.
Doesn't mean I deserve to be paid a bunch for it.
Hard work means jack shit if you aren't actually being useful.
I get paid 80 000 yen a month so roughly 8 200 dollariinos a year so not as much as that chart suggest. Don't know about other student thought, I think its the same
>you end up spending all your time animating some guy's right eyebrow
Do people really want to spend their time being stuck in mediocrity without having a sense of self fulfillment and personal advantage in exchange for decent pay?
Or would you rather still suffer for your art financially and physically/mentally in order to get that satisfying product and wholesome feeling?
I ask because right now I'm in the latter.
No, they don't. Actually Japan has pretty limited student aid. But tuition is pretty cheap compared to the US and most students get part time jobs.
Given the $9400/yr salary in the pic and Japan's minimum wage, the animators must work only around 25 hours per week. A college student could easily work that much, and it's not hard to find jobs that pay more than minimum wage, especially if you're willing to work nights and weekends.
>Old legends complaining about the current state of the anime industry
>Doesn't realize that moe is the only thing keeping the industry alive since there's barely any cashflow in it anyway
>Would rather animation died out than match their old ideals and notions
Miyazaki should donate his savings to a studio if he wants something produced. Otherwise, he should knock it off. If you can't pay your employees, indoctrinate them into thinking drawing cute girls is all there is to life.
Pure math creates the knowledge and solve fictional problems.
Applied math uses the knowledge to solve real world problems.
One is for useful plebs and the other for useless patricians.
Some people care more about money. Some care more about the work. I was definitely in the latter group, and still am to some degree, but the closer I get to 30 the more concerned I am with having a decent quality of life too.
Dude you are full of bullshit. We get some money. Im studying here at college and I get 8 200 dollars a year as Jasso money
From government funding. They need people to represent their country in international forums/convention where mathematicians convene to solve fictional problems in order to make their country look intelligent in the academic front.
No, you're just an idiot. I didn't say Japan has no student aid, I said it has very limited student aid.
Also, JASSO student aid is only free if you're a foreign student. Japanese students have to repay all of the money, either with interest (第一種奨学金) or without (第二種奨学金), and the no-interest loans are either need or merit based.
That may be true, but in that case if they're paid hourly they're being paid less than minimum wage.
Probably they're being paid at a per-frame contract rate or something like that.
Even before that Shirobako ep aired, I kept wondering how it must feel your rookie seiyuu sitting around in waiting room, practicing their lines, only to see a seiyuu idol enter the room with her entourage and realize that they've got no chance at all.
>The US military pays a Cost of Living Allowance to personnel stationed in Japan. In the Tokyo area, I get $600 ~ $800 in COLA with the shitty yen rate
Is the cost of living allowance in addition to the Pepsi?
She was laughing at him while electrocuting him after being told everything that happened and knowing they basically fucked over his life. Fuck that bitch. At least Sawashiro and that other guy kept quiet.
Google it. There was some fairly heavy bullying going on among the cast, mostly aimed at some rookie kid. Reading up on it is mostly useful to see Sugita lay down the law during an event.
Yes, that's great for you. I have a family to feed, and seeing that happen month after month is in fact giving me more enjoyment than being a bachelor investing all my time and money on maximizing my personal pleasure.
Basically two of the VA in the show bullied a new seiyuu on live on stage.
Someone their bullying antic got leaked. A huge scandal happened and apparently the producer of said event was rumored to be the sugar daddy for kitaeri.
/a/ got upset and sent dick to kitaeri
I'm the latter, but in the context of programming.
In CS, almost all of the people you meet are in the former group. I guess the same is true pretty much wherever else you look.
Passion is hard to find.
Although there's a sufficient supply of grunts, there's a very painful lack of capable creative staff in higher positions. Most people who have the talent don't want to subject themselves to the initial grind so they seek employment at game companies or other places. Which is leaving the business with an army of mediocre animators and only few people who can actually add real quality to a show.
mfw 3d animators and riggers especially the latter are on high demand everywhere
An animator's work is very tedious and, in a way, unimportant. You just copy shit over and over. Makes sense that the Chief Animator makes a significantly more, though. They're the people who are really essential.
Nana Mizuki, Yukari Tamura, Yui Hoire, idols
Ono D, part time stage actor
Keiji Fujiwara, Takehito Koyasu, company managers
Wakamoto, Akio Otsuka, Jouji Nakata, old timers.
Sugita and Nakamura, show hosts
Noto Mamiko, Ayako Kawasumi, voices not only anime and videogames but also commercials, ads, etc.
Shitty parenting or not, it's harder to sympathize with an autist who believes he can do no wrong than it is with someone who was told that they got their big break only to end up fucked over in a PR stunt and publicly humiliated. The CWC harassment was taken too far, but Ichiki wasn't exactly vandalizing store displays, pepper spraying employees trying to stop him, and running the manager over in a car.
>someone who was told that they got their big break only to end up fucked over in a PR stunt and publicly humiliated.
this prank was pulled on cwc when trolls made him believe miyamoto from nintendo was going to make a video game for him based on his shit.
Honestly I think this thread's convinced me to contribute more. Is there a more detailed account of seiyuu living standards? Like, are they living out of 4.5 tatami apartments at the top of a hill in Bumblefuck, Tokyo area?
The video game industry is better.
Square Enix – $273,000
Sony – $116,000
Nintendo – $115,000
Sammy – $103,500
Konami – $85,000
Namco Bandai – $80,500
Tecmo Koei – $77,500
Gala – $74,500
Capcom – $72,000
Yuke – $71,000
Why do people keep pretending Ema is not a competent animator? Is it just retarded bullying memeshit?
>As for scenario writers, they make around 180,000 yen ($2,000) a script and work on 2-3 at a time, but unlike sound directors, it’s fairly unheard of to write a completed script in 2 days. We can say that they finish an average of 1-2 scripts in an average month, putting their monthly income from manuscript fees at about 300,000 ($3,350) yen.
>Whether you think this is a lot or a little, depending on the show, a writer may be paid script royalties if the work becomes a hit, making millions of yen without doing any extra work. Since one could be working on three or more shows each month, the chances that a writer will write a script for a hit series increases.
>As a result, a writer who does proper work would reach 10 million yen ($110,000) a year.
>mfw people on autism bucks get more
Except for the fact that they outsource all of their 2D animation to Korea. Even shit as basic as Spongebob. Maybe if you're talking about 3D animation, but I bet it's getting pretty competitive by now.
Is being an entry-level animator really that simple of a job that they're easily replaced? I always thought you needed at least some skill and talent to even land a starting job, but if animators are so common and easy to find, does that mean any average joe can get the job if they spend a few years learning how to draw and animate?
For instance, I can't draw worth a shit. However, let's say I spend every free moment for the next 5 years learning to draw and practicing animation in my free time. Let's even say I hired tutors and took a few classes at the local college to help improve my skills. Would I be able to land an entry-level animator job?
depends on how good you get. i can't speak for japan, but in north america at least you need to be pretty good to be considered. having connects, as well as a degree obviously helps too
You could do tracing/cleanup/inbetween work, because that doesn't really require skill. Hence, no pay. It's a trust issue. If you're talented and better than your peers, people will trust you with more work. You have a reputation as an animator in the industry and need to maintain that through your work and your connections. Ultimately, it just comes down to how good you are relative to everyone else. So you'd better have a knack for drawing.
I think in japan it's mostly contract work. They aren't paid a salary and on a company's standard payroll. They're paid by the cut to do a certain amount of work by a certain deadline.
Entry-level animators make fuck all because they have minimal connections and can't be trusted with any of the difficult jobs, so they get little work, and what work they get is low-value (thus lower pay).
The better an animator is, the more, and the higher value work they get. Since they're pretty much only paid for what work they do, more work = more pay.
Presumably it's because there are many people who are willing to do that job.
It's like being a pilot, elementary school teacher, bicycle mechanic, surf instructor, ski patrol, etc. - those jobs all require technical skill, knowledge, training, and a level of trustworthiness, but they get paid very very little because there are lots of people willing to do those jobs because they find them enjoyable, to the point that they would do most of the required work, without pay, as a hobby.
Roughly $18k. That's more than four times of what I got in my home country and the taxes are significantly lower as well.
I'm baffled when people claim you need at least $80-100k.
No. You never able to make a decent wage as long as you stay a key animator. Key animators get paid per cut, and even veterans can only do 2-3 cuts a day. That's why in Shirobako, the old guy was considered a legend for animating 5 cuts in one day (and that's with second key help).
The pay for each cut is like $40, so you're talking about barely making minimum wage, even after years of experience. Only when animators move up in position, to animation director, backgrounds, episode director, character designer, etc, could they really make a living wage.
>My autism always goes mad when I see that chart and realize that CG animator (which I would like to have no at all in my chinese cartoons) makes more than traditional animator. Hope it's bullshit.
There goes the anti-CG shill again
I think I've encountered you before in a similar thread like this.
Boston/Cambridge area. Was just in Tokyo and asked my friends what they pay for cost of living stuff, and got a feel for prices myself. It wasn't anywhere nearly as expensive as I'd been made to believe.
Does Ao-chan count as A-list seiyuu?
She looks so tired most of the time nowadays, must have a tight schedule.
She is a competent animator, but she is also working in what, he second show? give her time and if she is really a competent animator, she is gonna to be episode director, director or cheif animator
>cg animators get more money than regulars
this kills the cartoons
More like reinvigorates.
CGI is slowly but steadily improving. Within years it may be indistinguishable from classic animation, but at a fraction of the time and cost.
Think of how many more shows can be made. How many 2nd seasons that previously would have never been made now get through because of how easy to make they are.
CG might be improving, but there are subtlies in 2D animation you can't replace with CG. CG in anime is years behind the west's Pixar, Disney, Dreamwork. Yet even them with their head start and massive budget, find making animation natural a tough business.
>living on less than 800 dollars
Isn't the cost of living in Japan one of the highest in the world, too?
No. I'm arguing that even with big budget CGI has weaknesses compared to traditional animation. If so, what hope could CG has in completely replacing tradition animation without being a serious drag on quality, especially in a low budget production environment. This isn't a "CG will get better" issue.
A low level animator does what people tell them to. They don't have artistic talent, they just draw in between keyframes. This chart doesn't differentiate between them at all which makes me think it is all just bullshit
Sure. There was a time when you can call in to talk to Mami.
I'm in an artistic community (as in, I derive my living from that) where I use what would be considered an "old way" of approaching my medium. It's true, there are people in this situation who approach things this way, but many of us, at least in my field, just want to be allowed to exist and have our art taken seriously by those who use new approaches exclusively.
During that time in the US
>While the cast is ready to agree to a pay cut from the $400,000 per episode they have been making since 2008, the source said that is not as deep as the 45% reduction in salary that Fox has demanded, which would have meant they get about $250,000 an episode.
>This old way of doing things will NEVER be as good as my new way of doing things!
- Every new-age change-obsessed faggot who's responsible for shit like the cycle of empires existing.
>people have been drawing for thousands of years
>WE CAN KEEP MAKING IT BETTER AND SHOULD NEVER STOP USING THIS
>CGI still barely a few years old and hasn't even been tried out by everyone yet
>CLEARLY IT'S ALREADY REACHED IT'S PEAK AND WILL NEVER IMPROVE AND SUCKS AND WE SHOULD ALL JUST DROP IT FOREVER
Pick related it's you you.