>>121741737 Only Illya is approved amongst the girls. Everyone is booted out. Seiba is a tool. Rin, Bazette and Luvia are typical mages so no go. Something's off with Sakura. Caren would be the best to screw with Kerry since she's Kirei 2.0
>>121745359 He's fine killing anyone that he's convinced he has to. That being anyone threatening the innocent. Otherwise he wouldn't have been willing to kill Kirei. Archer's whole backstory is that he became way worse than Kiritsugu just by natural progression of efficiency.
>>121745359 That's literally the opposite of Shirou's viewpoint though. Shirou would defend a fucking vampire if they were innocent. And he would be willing to kill the person trying to kill them if he had to.
Kiritsugu wouldn't be so Mind of Steel anymore, there's just nothing left to him in a way. His dream died along with half the town in a fire. In his last moments a bit of wistfulness escaped his lips once more.
He worried about his kid, didn't want him to turn out like him at all, be a hero at all, but in those last moments he was like "At least he won't turn out like me". Shirou didn't understand a lot of the conversation from Kiritsugu's point of view as it was shown in Zero epilogue.
Guy doesn't want Shirou to be like him, Kiritsugu's abilities are fucked, all he can sort of do is watch. He'll watch over Shirou's path for now and see if he can do it.
>>121745612 To be fair you'd be broken too if you'r lifes ambition cost you everything and left you with nothing but the bitter knowledge that you were doomed from the start.
The grail didnt just show Kerry's world of peace and happiness to be impossible it broke down all his self righteous delusions that all the sacrifices atrocities and the mountain of innocents he killed would be made up for if he could make the world a better place.
Kerry was a monster with insane goals but after the war all that was left was a shitty dad who lost his hot waifu and his cute loli daughteru..... all he had left was a mentally disturbed kid he took in.
And then he dumped the same shit that destroyed him on the kid....
>>121745744 Dumping stuff on Shirou was pretty unintentional, especially if you read the Fate/Zero side of that conversation where he worries about this kid's abnormality, and worries about him following the same path. Those words that escaped his mouth and the meaning of "I'm glad" were different from what Shirou thought.
Kiritsugu's nature is one who fucks up everything without trying, binding and severing.
He was a shitty magus though, any time he combined "magus" with anything, it fucked up everything.
Was a good dad to Ilya for some ten years, but the second "magus" got involved in that equation, it all got messed up. He was a good dad for Shirou, but the second "ideals" got mixed up in there, it messed up.
He'd probably be a lot like Saber, just sitting around all day eating and chain smoking. Though Shirou did say that he traveled a lot, and all those trips couldn't just be to try breaking into the Einzbern castle again. Probably would go back to contract killing, if not out of boredom, then just to pay the massive food bill his house has accumulated.
>>121746894 I doubt even Kerry can stop Shirou going superhero. If he can't stop himself, how will a broken man can? Kerry would be the one getting swallowed by Shirou's ideals if we go UBW route: he rediscovers the point of being an ally of justice instead of his pragmatic MoS.
>>121747064 If a completely serious Zero Kerry tried to take out Shirou's ideals I could see him shaking a bit more than dealing with Archer, but if it was the Kerry he grew up with, no way Shirou would back down. If anything he'd want to try and prove himself to him, since their last conversation was about how he wanted to carry the torch for him since he couldn't anymore.
>>121746930 Some people don't seem to understand these characters. There's very little chance of Archer trying to kill Kiritsugu in reality. Guy even says that he's basically figured out that it's his own fault that he's warped, doesn't hate his father, he's having something of a mid-afterlife existential crisis for various reasons.
He might still consider killing him, not as a breakdown but more of a rationalization. Still it wouldn't really fit him or his actions. Just like he didn't hate Saber and still remembered her after all this time, he still loves his father.
>>121747293 Doesn't he straight up insult Kiritsugu when he's fighting Shirou?
Plus you know I think it would depend on the circumstances. Like, if he was summoned in a situation where Shirou wasn't around, and there was only his dad, I could see him venting some severe issues with the guy.
>>121746864 Archer is basically what would happen if Shirou was in the same situation as Kiritsugu was as a child. Kerry'd probably be horrified that his son could turn out just like him, and Harry Chapin would start playing in the background.
>>121748823 People don't really seem to get this whole thing, on average or in totals, the masters of the fifth war were far more dangerous than the fourth war masters. Rin is far more of a magus than Kayneth, Sakura would become an unkillable monster, Souichirou is more of a monster than Kotomine in a fight, Kotomine held onto his edge far better than Kiritisugu over the years and hasn't degraded that far, Shirou is a monster yet naive, Bazett would kill Kiritsugu for sure, they're all far bigger monsters than the fourth war that might challenge servants at times compared to the fourth war were no one could hope to look at a servant wrong.
People are always quick to say "Man the fifth war guys would suck compared to the fourth war guys, Kiritsugu would beat them in one night" without realizing how foolish that one statement is at all. Tokiomi was noted to be a mediocre magus, Uryuu wasn't a magus at all, Waver was a bottom of the barrel magus, the only threat was Kotomine.
>>121748948 You're right, in a straight fight all of the 5th War Masters are superior.
But when does Kiritsugu EVER get involved in a straight fight? When half of the Masters in the 5th War are still actively attending high school during the War it's probably not going to end well for them. One sniper shot to the head knocks out Shinji, Sakura, Rin because they're never shown to actively defend themselves from such a weapon.
Rin may be a better mage than Kayneth, but there's nothing to suggest she's smarter in a fight and she has even less defence against Origin Bullets than Kayneth did. Meanwhile, Illya is basically the perfect target for Kerry's strategy of "distract the Servant with Saber and 1v1 the master" because she treats Berserker like a Pokemon. Hell, he could probably leave her alive for a bit and let Berserker kill off a few of the enemy before doing it.
Additionally, assuming that Kerry gets Avalon from Saber (and assuming this is a world where he kept his skill up since he's joined the War) I see no reason to believe he wouldn't be able to match Shouichirou when it's been canonically stated that Kiritsugu with 4x Time Alter could've matched a Servant as well.
The claim that Kiritsugu would win in a single night is very flawed, but I think it's highly likely he'd win in any situation that doesn't involve Bazett.
>>121749290 >One sniper shot to the head knocks out Shinji, Sakura, Rin because they're never shown to actively defend themselves from such a weapon.
They have a servant guarding them at all times, it's noted that Sakura developed spider-sense from nearly being killed for years as well. if Sakura had Rider then she would block the bullet, if she didn't have Rider then Kiritsugu would not target her. Shinji would probably die.
>Rin may be a better mage than Kayneth, but there's nothing to suggest she's smarter in a fight and she has even less defence against Origin Bullets than Kayneth did.
None of Kayneth's fighting style could be called smart, it was just "having a good toy". The reason origin bullets could never work on her is because her circuits are not engaged in releasing mana, she has mana already stored as portable bombs called gems. It's like Kotomine's command seal magic strategy, it's the reason Kiritsugu could not actually damage his circuits during the fight at all. His origin bullets are entirely sealed off here, and she's a better magus not just in fighting power, but strategy and usage if applied.
Archer would block the bullet and be on his ass in seconds.
>I see no reason to believe he wouldn't be able to match Shouichirou when it's been canonically stated that Kiritsugu with 4x Time Alter could've matched a Servant as well.
The one method for killing someone who has Avalon is blowing up the brain, Souichirou's technique revolves against attacking the brain. When buffed by Caster he can fight directly against Saber in combat. Which is a fear far higher than Kotomine at his prime, and far higher in technique, power, speed than 4x Time Alter. It's shown he's above either Kiritsugu or Kotomine at their prime when buffed, and above Kotomine even when he isn't buffed.
It's like people don't realize the various flaws here while hyping their one guy.
>>121749420 I wonder how well Kerry would do if he fought in tandem with Saber instead of using her and his wife as a distraction. He prefers playing the marksman more, but he's no slouch in straight up combat either. If he's also in the fray laying about with his Calico and whatever that single shot rifle thing was in conjunction with Saber, that might make things play out different. The sniper routine was only used because it was the best strategy for his opponents. Maybe a direct combat approach would be better this time?
>>121750306 He'd probably just lob a round into the classroom to take out Kuzuki when Caster is up at Ryuudo doing spooky shit, and get Saber to take out Rider in a straight up fight if he couldn't do the same thing to Shinji. Tohsaka would be a huge pain in the ass, though he'd probably have a strategy to exhaust her jewel supply and then go for the kill with an Origin Bullet, which would still be dodgy. Illya would probably fuck him up because he couldn't bear to kill his daughter, and Berserker is strong as fuck. Kotomine, despite being slower then when he was young, has two servants, one of which is fucking Gilgamesh, so I cant really see victory here.
>>121750569 >He'd probably just blow up the whole school and get both of them at once. He's shown that he's not adverse to sacrificing other people if it's a means to an end, but I don't think he'd go that far. In fact, I might be misremembering, but didn't he evacuate Kayneth's fun house before blowing it up?
>>121751166 Yeah, though he knew that he'd still be inside when the bombs went off. Maybe he'd force the secretary to call Kuzuki and Shinji down to the office before setting off the claymores he'd hidden there to minimize casualties.
>>121747293 He'd kill Kerry in a heartbeat if he felt it would undo his own existance much like what he planned to do with Shirou.
While he would recognize his own fault in taking such a naive ideal to it's logical extreme's what he hate's isnt the ideal itself it's his own obcessive stubborn nature that refused to even consider that the path he was walking coould be wrong untill his own soul was as blackend and empty as his fathers.
>>121751449 This is Saber's face after being told that she'll have to let Caster dress her up next season. Hopefully she doesn't look as pathatic as she did in the deen movie when she tries to challenge Archer.
>>121759176 >>121759078 You know what? Never mind it. "Once" is a goddamn understatement. Pretty much the whole novel is Shirou BARELY clinging to life and trying to stand up while his intestines are falling out anyway. You would almost think Fate was some obscure torture porn based on that. Pretty much the whole novel is him being killed and not dying. There's no way to know which one "almost-death" of his they were talking about here with absolute confidence. Too much options.
>>121759277 I don't think Touko actually ever appears in Tsukihime. Also, didn't she die by that time? Or do you mean in Fate? I'm really not sure, but I assumed homunculi can't change bodies like Shirou did and he only was able to because of incomplete Third Magic. That is, unless I completely misunderstood that. How do puppet bodies work in Nasuverse anyway?
>>121760278 There is some crazy stuff with that. Well, in Nasuverse you can freely say everything is separate. Soul, spirit, consciousness, mind, body, personality and whatever else. Though is was clearly stated for Touko at least (separate consciousness in every body, only one active (due to natural restrictions), and shared you could say "personality").
>>121740678 I still just want to know why they didn't pay millions of dudes to jizz into a cup so they could power the Grail. Seems like it would have been a lot less effort than wars where you have to compete with someone else.
>>121761020 More than three mages agreeing on anything? Seems unlikely. Here, look, the Holy Grail War is what happens when they get 7 of these. Now imagine what would happen if there were millions. And if they were not magi, it would break the Masquerade. Also, didn't mana get transferred only during a mutual orgasm anyway?
>>121761226 Oh yeah, now I remember. I think you would probably need a lot of semen before you break through to the Root. On the other hand, I would want people to say about me "He broke through to the Third Magic... using only semen".
>>121757717 I wanted to be impressed by Rin but so far her Magus tricks look all very anti-climatic. I was waiting to see some badass magical miracles of awesome like Caster or others did but all she does is throwing rock that causes small explosion and throw a couple kicks here and there and when shit hits the fan she gets kicked aside, nearly raped, etc...
Her being a great Magus looks more like an informed ability.
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