>Why everybody think X is a masterpiece ? Very good maybe, but a masterpiece plz. You can say this literally about anything that's very good.
>>121923101 >>121923442 >>121923490 >it has serious themes so if you enjoy it you must be an edgy chuuni teenager My all-time favorite shows include Fate/Zero, and Nichijou. What are you going to do now?
>>121924861 Other favorites from recent times include Jintai, Hyouka, "Inari, Konkon, Koi Iroha", Kyousougiga, Noragami, Ping Pong, Teekyu, Uchouten Kazoku, Witch Craft Works, Yozakura Quartet, Psycho Pass, Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun, and Yama no Susume, off the top of my head, and now go fuck yourself with a cactus you idiot who's ruining the board with his elitist insecure shitposting.
I just finished it yesterday. Very good, but I can't call it the best. >Thinking it was smarter than it really was with the long winded pseudo-philosophical speeches about 'what is a king' >Biggest fault of the story is that it exists to expand on Stay Night, so it's somewhat unsatisfying on its own. >Not enough action. I don't mind the talky bits at all (for the most part), but you have this amazing animation, take fucking advantage of it. >Mindfuck ending.
>>121928085 >It's called sarcasm you fucking newfag. >I was only pretending to be an idiot!
>last two years Jintai, Hyouka, Teekyu, and Psycho-Pass are a quarter of the list. Another couple are from the last two years as you're saying yourself now, backpedalling from the "one year". And on top of it all the post itself said "from recent times". Now go fuck yourself with a gardening rake or simply fuck off back to /v/.
>>121929480 The servants' and masters' behavior during the fights were building up their personalities you dimwit.
>>121929331 I'd call F/Z a 9/10 to 9.5/10, and would claim that 10/10 is a score that's generally not given to anything. It becomes meaningless to rate at that level of precision, and 10/10 is just not given because it means literally "flawless/perfect" which is more or less an unachievable abstract maxim.
F/Z was just more or less as good as a seasonal TV show can possibly be.
>>121929658 I didn't play the VN or watch the ufotable remake so I'm feigning judgment but as far as I'm aware it's simply a different genre from F/Z; a genre that I generally tend to like less. >hurr durr secondaries Just fuck off.
If you would age down the F/Z characters so that most of them are in high school, people would throw the anime into the trash bin. They retain the exact same personality, the exact same motives and the exact same plot as F/Z, but people would complain about how the setting is a high school so they can't take it seriously. Japanese people don't mind youthful protagonists, but people from other countries hate them and think it denotes a degree of simplicity and immaturity merely on the basis of the protagonists' age. F/Z is chuuni dreamland that just happens to have older characters, therefore it's "mature and deep" to many low level casuals.
A characters' age can influence the outlook on a show easily.
I thought it mainly had to do with hype and post Madoka Urobuchi popularity. For most people it seemed like some sort of religious experience and revelation, for me it was a solid 8/10 storyline that kind of lost me towards the end as the story took to focusing on two of the most brooding and monotonous rivals outside of Gundam Wing.
>>121929976 Basically what >>121930031 said. That just wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. High school boy somehow travels the word, fights as a mercenary, joins a holy grail war by making connections to one of the most wealthy families on earth? How?
>>121930029 I was just saying that to those who will jump "hurr durr secondaries" at anyone who didn't play the F/SN VN.
>>121923063 My personal problem with F/Z is that there were too many characters which spread out development and plot. It was obviously meant to be watched after reading FSN, so it can be confusing as fuck in the first few episodes. However, I do like the fights more than FSN, both in UBW and the VN. I hate all the plots in FZ and all three routes, not to mention most of the characters. I can't really compare those. Though, FZ had Waver and Rider, while FSN had Ilya (Only good thing about FSN, honestly). Rin and Sakura are waifu bait. Saber is a food receptacle and was annoying. I am enjoying the hell out of Prisma though, especially in 3rei.
>>121923063 Because people read the novels before it aired. Liked it. Watched the show. Liked it. Said it was good. And then when people who knows nothing of it jumped in, they saw that people said that it was great, which in turn amplified whatever they impressions they got with great expectations.
>>121923063 Fate/Zero feels less like a story about a free for all "mage war" than a story about institution, tradition, and power blocs though. The way the rules are set up and the game is played, it's equal amounts of corporate warfare and magical ability. The participants are mostly there representing traditional - old families waging a proxy battle for dominance. I think in that context, it makes sense.
I guess that's part of its strength too - it's extremely focused and doesn't really try to be anything it's not. The overbearing "serious" tone can be a bit too heavy and self-indulgent, but I enjoyed that it really tried to be like a western film or TV series, without the awkward fanservice or forced humor that's commonly identified with a lot of anime. It is concerned with power dynamics. The director is a huge Christopher Nolan fan, and I think it really shows in how he composes a lot of scenes... for better or for worse.
I don't care for Urobuchi much either. A lot of his stuff is kinda meh. You need more than just one person or a basic story to make a good anime. The direction, attention to detail, and production values matter a lot.
I'm telling you that F/Z carried that development far more effectively. I'm not saying that everybody in F/SN was a total stranger while Shirou pranced about in his bubble of main character development, I'm saying that F/Z's format allowed for a superior exploration of its cast and their inner workings.
The whole point of F/Z is how flawed Kiritsugu's methods are. The reason he doesn't care about the fact he summons an honourable Servant is that he doesn't care about the Servant herself, he simply sees Saber as a tool to be used. Also with regards to Kariya, he actually did try and seek out Tokiomi on his own when both Servants were engaged and look where that got him.
I have to say I have a complete opposite viewpoint to your own with regards to how the actions of each pairing was dealt with in both works. In F/SN ultimately the action of almost every Servant/Master combo save for some minor variation at notable times was "Find another Servant, fight until one of you dies, move on".
Compare this to F/Z, where you have Rider and Waver tracking down Caster's home and using a bit of gorilla warfare to weaken him; Kiritsugu doing Kiritsugu things and using the Servants as a distraction; Assassin being used for various deceiving tactics, if not the most useful ones, and various other tactics used throughout the series aside from "kill them till they die". And then you have Rider, Gil and Saber all sitting down for a chat, along with the various fights that were purely mage-versus mage, completely independent of their Servants. Not once was there a straight 1-on-1, or even 2-on-1 or 2-on-2, Servant fight without something to tip the scales going on in the background and it ultimately gives the feel of a more strategic "war" than F/SN.
I don't think he explained it well, but what actually makes a show/manga/game "chuuni" is usually the presentation. It's kinda derogatory in the same way as how some people tend to look down comic book or videogame style works in the west which try super hard to be taken seriously.
When you have something like Naruto or One Piece, where it's clearly targeted at kids and not trying to be anything more, that's not really chuuni because it knows what it is. But when you have those same elements but in a more "serious" context where the authors clearly seem to be taking everything seriously even though it has ridiculous stuff like "The 5th Holy Grail War" and all sorts of made up "rules" and characters shouting attacks while doing them, that's definitely what people would call "chuuni". That also includes all sorts of references to "cool" stuff like [The Mage Association] and so on. It's just viewed as very childish manchildren stuff. Yes, stuff like Xenogears and FFXV are totally viewed that way too.
I guess one parallel in a western context would be the term "syfy". It doesn't mean the same thing, but in cultural tone it's similar in the sense that it's a critique by viewers comparing actual scifi works which are approached in good faith, and scifi works which are just pandering dumbed down stuff meant to hook dumb audiences with superficial presentation and garbage worldbuilding which relies on twists and poorly thought out but cool sounding stuff. Oh, and I guess "phantasy" works the same way too.
>>121929895 There are things you can't fundamentally change about Fate/Stay Night. Fate/Zero is a dark tragedy with adult characters in a situation they have long prepared for. Fate/Stay Night is about a bunch of high school kids with magic powers with a lot more comedy and sexual humor. Those are things inherent in the original source, and it's silly to pretend that Fate/Zero is more popular that Fate itself as an overall franchise, because it's not. There are tons of Fate/Stay Night fans who have no interest in seeing the material dramatically changed into something totally different.
I think Ufotable is a very talented studio, but they're also one which knows the importance of making stuff which is satisfying to the core audience first and foremost. A good example would be their work on the Kara no Kyoukai movies. They have great production values and all the things about Ufotable which we like in Fate/Zero, but the story and characters were still slavishly faithful to the source material - including all the worst things about Nasu's writing. That's more than enough reason for me to be hesitant about Fate/Stay Night.
Fate/Zero was originally written as light novels by Gen Urobuchi, a fairly well-esteemed writer in the business. Fate/Stay Night was written by Nasu, the main Type-Moon writer who is considered mediocre-at-best with some interesting ideas. And Fate/Stay Night originated as a pornographic visual novel which means it's harem crap with high schoolers and a terrible protagonist. To compound things, the anime version was animated by DEEN, which means its cheap, ugly, and badly directed. I've heard nothing good about it, and the clips I've seen have confirmed those impressions.
For me it's that some of the characters were pretty interesting and enjoyable to watch while others were kind of just like, "Okay stop brooding and trying to wax philosophical and get off the screen or actually do something already". It can give it the feeling of being a little too pretentious at times when certain and their brooding philosophical banter are given more than their due screen time, especially given the awkward pacing that most ufoTABLE/Type-Moon adaptations seem to have almost as a rule.
It's kind of like really boring and low grade politicking at times. Usually I like that sort of scheming and what not where the results of the conflicts are decided on the battlefield just as much as they are off of it, but the way Fate/Zero handles it often felt very simplistic, poorly fleshed out and like it was just kind of lacking somewhere in the human factor and giving me a reason to care particularly much about the results of this or that behind the scenes betrayal, alliance what have you. It didn't help that a good chunk of the cast were just boring and monotonous as sin and barely portrayed anything resembling on screen charisma. Like the only characters I can honestly say I gave a fuck about in terms of how their plotlines were resolved by the time the second season rolled around were Rider, Waver, Irisviel and Saber.
Maybe this whole prequel arc works better for people that are already super hardcore into this universe and god knows there seems to be plenty of them but for me it was just kind of like interesting in some instances if kind of emotionally un-engaging.
Also I really do think Urobuchi just kind of sucks at character writing and making them interact and even act like actual human beings might and that shortcoming is at play again with Fate/Zero. He's good at setting up conflicts between characters from a philosophical standpoint but just doesn't seem to be able to handle the part where I actually care about the ultimate outcome of said conflict or where the characters are developed on any level beyond that which allows them to act as perfect foils to one another in a conflict. It's very cold and distant and keeps him from being a particularly great writer IMO.
Urobuchi is a very interesting writer. I like him a lot, and I'm a huge fan of his works. But it has come to my attention that some people consider him a bad writer. Looking into these opinions and considering the facts have led me to a conclusion. Urobuchi is a writer who does not aim higher than what he deems necessary for a given topic. He is a pulp writer who is more interested in delivering a tight and coherent experience that fits nicely into the concept being sold to an audience, and he is more interested in "pandering" to the satisfaction of the audience and managing expectations very neatly, rather than having something particularly profound or meaningful to say.
And thinking about this led me to realize that the reason I like his form of writing is that for mainstream anime these days, I feel this is exactly what I want and need from it. When there is a solid production behind a concept which I find appealing, the last thing I want is for the creators to be "too smart" and try to out-think the audience, or make their characters so philosophical that they become parodies of themselves. I just want what I was promised, and if there is foreshadowing and teasing of stuff, I expect those to be deliver in the proper proportion that the show is suggesting.
Saya no Uta, Madoka, Fate/Zero, these all fall perfectly under this category. Nothing is promised but under-delivered, if you expect the story to "go there", it will, because if it hints at it, it will deliver. If it isn't going to "go there", it will not suggest it to begin with. The endings are also major game changing events, which walks the fine line between feeling conclusive, and also being bittersweet. Urobuchi also tends to specifically write in moments in the endings which show that the characters who survived or won something "earned" it in some way. This reinforces the audience's satisfaction with how "watertight" the entire story is, and it feels more conclusive and cohesive as a whole.
>>121937438 Are you telling me that FMP and F/Z are comparable in overall atmosphere? Probably not. Why not? Because of exactly that: one has the actions I described be done by a character to whom they are fitting in an essentially realistic fantasy world (think Tolkien, D&D, Matrix, etc. when I say "essentially realistic fantasy world"), and the other is in a rather surreal fun world, or "teenagers saving the world" world.
Whether the main characters are in high school or not makes the difference between apples and oranges, even if everything else is "the same".
7/10 series, gets most of its original content from Heaven's Feel but is pretty solid. (stay night also rates a 7)
Low points include most of Kariya's storyline that seems like contrived soap opera, pandering to the fans of the original by shoehorning Sakura and Rin into the plot and characters that exist to antagonize the hero and do little else (Caster and Archibald).
I most strongly disagreed with the portrayal of Kiritsugu as some sort of hero, the line "normally I'd be killing all these innocent people except I'm on camera right now so nah" gets progressively more annoying. Killing a pair of serial killers who are feeling sorry for themselves isn't enough to bring home the motivation of this character and as his story is what Zero aspires to tell they dropped the ball on this one badly.
>>121923063 FSN and F/Z are completely different works. FSN is a romance eroge aimed for otaku that has an interesting setting. F/Z is a short light novel series that uses the already established setting and just tries to tell a more mainstream action/thriller story.
Just because you prefer F/Z, doesn't mean it is better than FSN. They are both very different (albeit mediocre) works that try telling different stories. It just comes down to a matter of which kind of story you prefer.
>>121938322 eh 2/3 fate stay night are basically the protagonists going "lol whats a grail war" while Kirei sits menacingly in a corner enjoying his own private rendition of the hunger games
Heaven's Feel happens when Zouken realises that there's no serious competition for the grail and swoops in to wreck everybody's shit while Kotomine starts sharing war stories about how people used to murderise each other back in the day . Up until that point you could be forgiven for thinking the two were entierly disconnected.
>>121940100 I didn't read any books of Drizzt you dimwit; that should have been obvious from the way I phrased the sentence. I have played Baldur's Gate though, and if you'll tell me that its plot wasn't "serious", then you have an absolutely dumb definition of "serious".
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