How did manga become such a massive phenomenon in Japan, while in the west, only recently thanks to big budget summer movie Marvelverse have comics really started to enter mainstream?
Also why are anime so often straight adaptions of Manga, where in the west, you very rarely ever get animated adaptions of the comics? (So a Batman TV show will have nothing to do with batman comics for example)
>in the west,
While technically correct, please be more precise. You are talking about the US of A.
European countries like France and Germany have always liked comics.
Also, I'm not aware that the sales of Marvel and DC have improved a lot from the movies.
Manga is cheap, comics are not.
Jump is like what, 300yen?
There is no way you can beat 300yen as far as entertainment value is concerned
The Comic Code Authority destroyed the potential of comic books in America in the 50s.
We are still suffering from that recoil, as the industry and general public perception was built up on the twisted, corrupt standard installed to survive the code, and stuck to this very day.
Meanwhile, instead of the shitty CCA regulations in the US, Japan got Tezuka Osamu in that same era.
That's where it all diverged, anon.
>How did manga become such a massive phenomenon in Japan, while in the west, only recently thanks to big budget summer movie Marvelverse have comics really started to enter mainstream?
No idea, but I suspect it was probably because of Gundam and Yamato being animated shows that actually appealed to adults which opened Anime up to a much broader audience in Japan. It probably had less TV competition than in the US so it became a massive phenomenon. You also can't discount how popular Shojo was among females in Japan even as early as the late 60s and early 70s, as in a very, very conservative and gender strict country, Shojo was filled with very feminist views, raunchy taboo sex (Lesbians, lesbians everywhere) and romantic stories.
Again, those are just my thoughts, I can't confirm and someone else can probably expand on them.
>Also why are anime so often straight adaptions of Manga, where in the west, you very rarely ever get animated adaptions of the comics?
This is easy to answer.
Cartoons in the west are aimed at children, Comics are generally aimed at young adults, so shows are changed to make them more child friendly.
Also manga is drawn in a style based on actual TV shows and animation, Osamu Tezuka is the one that pioneered this method by studying film and animation. Manga basically are drawn as "Storyboards" which means you can easily adapt them 1:1 into a TV show, where Comics are drawn as graphic novels, where a picture is only supposed to give the general "feeling" of the a scene, not every precise action. So it is much harder to adapt into a show.
I won't deny the influence Yamato had on Gundam, and Gundam had on the 80s robot shows.
But the roots go deeper than that.
Osamu Tezuka revolutionized manga, yes. But I would say it was Mitsuteru Yokoyama that had the largest impact in the anime industry, even more so than Tezuka.
Yokoyama single handedly established multiple major genres of anime. His works are responsible for both Magical Girl shows and Giant Robot shows.
speak for yourself.
Comics in Italy are pretty huge since forever.
Try and go in an italian house, even of normalfags, and not find a single Tex or Dylan Dog or Diabolik comic.
I dare you.
I think another thing is that people who work on manga often worked in the animation industry.
For example Tezuka worked at Toei animation, while also writing manga that he would later go onto adapt into animation.
In the US comic book writers were not working with Disney or Hannah Barbera so there was a complete disconnect from comics and animation.
I fucing love dylan dog
I'm from Belgium and my comicshops has some translated once in the budgetbin, If I could read italian I would read them in italian thats how much I like them
>How did manga become such a massive phenomenon in Japan, while in the west
Japan never censored their manga and it is heavily understood that some manga are for adults. They are literally books in Japan.
In the West, due to puritanical censorship regulations aimed at stopping pornography/adult-themed comics like the Tijuana bibles, they have become known as not for adults (even when 2d art and animation with curvy women were being shown to WW1 and WW2 veterans to jack off to at the front), it has only been very lately that this kind of concept has been reversed ever so slightly.
>Shojo was among females in Japan even as early as the late 60s and early 70s, as in a very, very conservative and gender strict country, Shojo was filled with very feminist views, raunchy taboo sex (Lesbians, lesbians everywhere) and romantic stories.
It should also be noted that the big Shojo group was a group of female writers and illustrators called "Year 24" (They were founded in 1949 or the 24th year of the Showa period).
The Year 24 group in 1974 founded a convention for shojo and other female oriented erotic works called Comiket, which noone on /a/ should be unaware of. For those who don't know, Comiket is the biggest comic convention on the planet, but what makes it unique is that it generally focuses on "erotic fan works" and original manga with upcoming and starting artists to try break into the industry.
>How did manga become such a massive phenomenon in Japan
Long commutes and nothing to do pre-smartphone era. Once they gained popularity, it became more feasible to go into that industry which lead to more variety and snowballed the popularity.
Comics have always been small and non-lucrative. It's also nearly impossible for a single person to start up their own comic, acquire a fanbase and get picked up by a publisher, unlike manga. For those reasons, there is no variety in comics aside from cape shit and more recently feminist cape shit.
The west doesn't have train commutes. The west hates reading. Comics will never be popular.
>Western comics can't even come close to competing with the semen demons manga artist craft.
Nilo Manara says hi.
Speaking about women in manga and anime industries, in postwar Japan, the social role of women was undergoing a massive change. The Neo-Confucian idea of a docile and subservient, loyal woman, either to her husband or her father, was directly challenged in multiple manga/anime creations as well as by the female authors of these series.
Arguably the most famous shojo manga of all time was The Rose of Versaille.
Written by Ikeda Ryoko and first published in 1972, it featured a heroine who crossdressed as a man in the Royal Guards of pre-Revolutionary France who fought, was openly admired by other court women, and broached topics like forbidden love, particularly lesbian relationships and the heroine's potential bisexual identity.
This continued the trend of shojo manga constantly pushing the envelope of what the idea of being a girl and woman was, and also continued the trend of shojo manga being incredibly far-leftist in a country that was being built up as a bastion against Communism and socialist thought, and where much of society was heavily conservative.
Good comics already exist beyond superhero trash. The American industry would probably be larger and healthier though, so a larger variety and number of good comics would exist.
>Not that guy, buy Euro comics' semen demons are miles ahead of those from the USA.
I can't say if American comic would have rivaled Japan's.
That's a fictional history, and Stan Lee/Jack Kirby were no Tezuka Osamu.
But it's certainly a possibility, and at the least, far better off than what we were stuck with. There's a good chance that it would have been competitive with Japan, yes.
Exactly, they're cheap and disposable. That's the best part. If I pay $1.50 for an issue of jump, and I lose it, there's no problem. If I pay $10 for a tank and I lose it, I feel like an idiot.
Americans actively tried to strangle comics as a medium, and it almost worked. The only remnants of old, American comics are capes which only have a niche appeal, even among Americans.
Creating something different now is essentially trying to create a new market. Web-comics, for how shitty they are, are one of the few venues for Americans to create and consume something that isn't capes or another, tired memoir about someone growing up under a tyrannical regime that all the 'savvy' journals rave about for a month or so.
Everyone above this post is wrong.
Marvel makes money off people going to see capeshit movies, not comics and DVDs.
Anime producers don't make money off their shows, they make money off merchandising.
>Manga is cheap
>Before phones there was nothing to do while waiting outside except stare into the distance and think about when you're going to kill yourself in the forest, or read a book
>Before that there was nothing other than wondering if another nuclear bomb was going to fall on your head, you need a distraction from that once in a while
>Accessible for virtually all reading levels
>Japan actually reads
>limited to capeshit
The reality is that children buy comics; creepy sex offenders buy shit like marvel; everyone else just turns to the back of the newspaper.
Japanese censorship is different from Western censorship, or at least, AMERICAN. Japanese censorship is mainly on mosaics or lightsabers and you could generally write any kind of story. American censorship completely fucked up the notion of writing really adult themes for the comic readers' consumption.
Everything in that picture is still aimed at a small market of people. Anime is very niche in Japan.
Manga has more variety and appeal, but it's still one of those things that is mainly enjoyed by young people.
>only recently thanks to big budget summer movie Marvelverse have comics really started to enter mainstream?
It's really sort of always been like that for capeshit though. The US' main entertainment has always been television and movies thanks to them being huge established industries here. There's been tons of capeshit movies and shows over the years for the most popular heroes and that's probably what most people know the heroes from.
I think if you get an adult-targeted comic adaptation it's going to always be a movie here, cartoons have this idea that they are associated with kids in the US and thus they'll never really take off. Also Disney killed 2D here so there's that too.
>starts reading it from right to left
What the fuck am I doing
america was first colonized by bigots and mormons who were running FROM an England which was starting to go through Illuminism and cultural changes (see Oscar Wilde, rampant homosexuality in general and first shy inclusion of women lives in novels) and wanted to perpetrate their old and trite religious view of the world.
America was funded upon freedom from England, but also free from cultural enlightment and new moral codes.
>tl;dr enjoy your cut dicks, they were cut so that it could hurt when you fap, since it's a sin
As I said, fumetti was pretty huge in Italy, and it's still big.
Maybe when comics first came out in the 50s and 60s, but capeshit since the 80s has been all grimdark shit with tons of violence and killing. The only thing I would say it has less of is sexual adult themes, but at the same time it still exists, it just is shown much less otherwise it will be labelled as fanservice or "pornographic", and people tend to devalue something once it gets that label.
I'm new the /a/ I started with the one piece manga.
And to get in to comics just go to a comic shop browse around something will spark intrest buy it or ask for some info about it
>So are you saying that if the CCA did not exist, we would have comics that would rival, if not surpass manga today, and not just weekly superhero comic #443567533754345?
* Limited commute by Train etc. You can't read while you drive.
* Would not prevent censorship of Porn.
* They could still do stupid one-character focused Shit. (Why is that even a thing?)
* Can't put out a lot of Chapters if you have to colorize Stuff.
Don't worry though:
Japan is hard at work to introduce their own quasi-CCA and ruin Manga permanently.
I'm assuming Rose of Versailles is where that trend in Manga and Anime has come from where you have these pretty boys with long flowing hair and are wearing 17th century aristocratic clothes for some reason and speak in really poncy accents?
HE ROBS FROM HE RICH TO GIVE TO THE GIRLS, HES ALSO A MASTER SPORTS CAR DRIVER AND A MASTER LOVER. ASK EVA, SHE CAN'T GET A GOOD NIGHT SLEEP UNLESS SHE IS COVERED IN MONEY!
Postan the best cape hero to date:
(actually an ita-australian production)
So what's the deal with furry cartoons and comics being so popular in the west and not in the east? Did the early popular cartoons with Bugs Bunny and shit (and their successors) breed whole generations of furries in the west? Did Disney doom us all?
Ye its so cheap they often leave there magazine lfor other people to read when they finish it cause its that cheap.
I think even every hobo over there reads it cause its so easy to get your hands on it some way or another
>I'm assuming Rose of Versailles is where that trend in Manga and Anime has come from where you have these pretty boys with long flowing hair and are wearing 17th century aristocratic clothes for some reason and speak in really poncy accents?
It was probably Genre-Defining. But the reality is probably that some Niche-Manga or other work (Doujinshi, other Media, non-published Work) thought of the Idea first that inspired the Rose of Versailles in part.
We'll go with that than.
>My autism dictates me that i need to start a series from the very beginning.
Those Character-Introductions are there for a Reason.
I always try to find the oldest Volume.
(Though preventing Spoilers while Browsing Manga is hard.)
Why don't you read Gotham Academy?
That was the final issue of Life With Archie which was a spin-off focusing on Archie's married life. I didn't read it though, just heard about it.
I do. Maps is a cutie.
>Why are comic characters so ugly?
Manga is more widely accepted as a medium of entertainment for all ages. Walt Disney destroyed the cartoon and comic market for older audiences in the US, but Fox, CN, and Comedy Central are trying to bring it back
As for adaptations, Americans are more interested in the profitability of the comic franchise. The adaptation will almost never happen due to the fact that American copyright laws are applied differently to different mediums. You could get sued if you infringe on your own works by your publisher and movie director. Also there is an emphasis on continuing a series until it looses popularity and profits, once it looses those it gets cancelled with no ending.
>walt disney destroyed adult comics/cartoons
So tired of hearing this stupid myth. Maybe the Disney company post Walt Disney shares some blame, but Walt Disney was NOT interested in making animation for children. If you think something like Fantasia was intended for a young audience, you're hopeless.
It's saddening. I thought the early 90s Disney animations were fairly decent when I was younger. Now I can't watch scenes without thinking how furfags were`viewing it entirely differently.
Eventually it did grow into that. But for a long time especially during "early Tezuka" era, manga was very much a kids thing.
Manga was also under the threat of being censored much like the CCA seal for anything with a mature theme. You have to thank Yoshihiro Tatsumi for coining the word Gekiga. Gekiga is essentially manga with mature themes but it only had that label just to be essentially be a rated T+ thing. Allowing it to still be sold.
I believe that the fact that manga was allowed under the label "Gekiga" to continue its growth into much more mature themes unlike comics and the CCA that manga became what it is today.
Discussing power levels between comic characters is more fun and more in depth than japanese media characters. I don't know why people have to choose a side. It actually makes both sides look like fucking retards. It's like arguing red vs blue.
As much as I love animu & mango, it can't even compare to Don Rosa's Scrooge.
Shit is timeless 11/10, I don't even
>Discussing power levels between comic characters is more fun and more in depth than japanese media characters.
I honestly don't see how with all the super situationals and Uber OP types rampant in the latter. Have you seen how often people keep trying to kill Accelerator around here?
> the CCA prohibited the presentation of "policemen, judges, government officials, and respected institutions ... in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority."
So satire was forbidden in the US for decades? That might explain some things, like how nowadays teen can't handle having their feelings hurt. So much for being freedom land.
It explains why American humor is so awful. It's either so bizarre that it offends nobody or toilet humor so bland that it's not actually disgusting anymore. They don't want to offend anyone, they don't want to self-deprecate, they don't want to be cynical.
There's a reason Brits have remained on top for so long. Satire and cynicism have kept us going.
Probably the biggest reason is because governments and organizations use the argument 'but the children' which is honestly very hard to argue against. Its pretty much the argument to end all arguments because you dont want the next generation to end up fucked up but, surprisingly, this ended up breeding a bunch of try hard children who dont take criticism from no man.
Also, is there a whole anime forum thats dedicated to vs. Battles? I know theres one for comics (comicvine) but i want to know of theres any for manga/anime because arguing battles is fun.
Then you could say as much of Italy.