>>122061106 Compared to the other two routes, UBW is considerably more fast paced. Things pick up quicker and everyone is thrown into the grail war at full speed with hardly any slow down. Basically each day has something progressive happening as opposed to say, Heaven's Feel which has a long, mundane build up, but finishes incredibly strong.
>>122061650 None of the shown routes result in EMIYA. Furthermore, there's absolutely no way that what you theorize could be, as he does not make a contract with the world in that route. Also "far into the future" is probably overestimating how long he lives.
>>122061790 I figured it was something like that at least, since I got all of the possible endings but the contract he made with the world never showed at all which was the last thing punching holes in all of my theories. Thanks, I'm assuming there's a wiki somewhere I could google that goes really indepth into all of the nasuverse right?
>>122061911 There's the http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/TYPE-MOON_Wiki which is useful as a springboard. As with all wikis though, you'll have to be careful with the text off the articles, as uncited, unverified, and sometimes just straight fanon can slip in.
>>122061997 Thanks again, I know it's probably all been discussed to death since the VN is pretty old but I only finished it very recently so I'm all hyped up. Still have go through side material but this is exactly what I was looking for.
The biggest question I have though, did Shirou keep his memories of the stuff that happened at the true end of HF? They mentioned that the soul stores memories but it's still sort of vague.
>Shirou: Stop right there, Archer. I can't let you go after you kidnapped Tohsaka and joined with Caster.
>Archer: Oh, if it isn't the Champion of Justice. It looks like you and your selfish sense of "Justice" haven't accepted your mistakes for what they are yet. Why don't you look in a mirror before you decide who the real traitor is?
>Shirou: S-Shut up! I don't need to listen to someone who is willing to do anything to get the Holy Grail!
>Archer: I could give you plenty of reasons you should listen... but whatever. So, how's it going? Have you been able to help anyone with your pathetic abilities? Can you tell me of a single person whose life you've made better?
>Archer: I guess I shouldn't have bothered asking. After all, humans are too narrow-minded to help anyone. They only look out for themselves. "Champion of Justice"... Pathetic. You're just a hypocrite committed to your "Justice". I guess you'll never understand your treachery. So I guess I'm going to have to beat your twisted ideals out of you... Ideals amount to nothing when there is no strength behind them. It'll only take one blow from me for you to understand! Right here. Right now!
>>122062172 Also, you'll probably want to check out Beast's Lair http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/forum.php a noted nasu fan community They translate stuff, and if you're into fanfiction garbage like I am they've got a good recommendation thread
>"The reason for the UBW spelling errors is because it was the very first work I did on RN before I started leading the porting. And MM's script files for FSN have word wrap tags all over them. I didn't have the Notepad++ skills at the time to remove those tags, so I had to type the scene out by hand (and that's as terrible as it sounds), so it's full of errors."
>>122063068 Ohho, then who are your favorite characters? I know you like Sakura but I have a friend who's a bigger Sakurafan than you (he likes Sakura as much as I like Saber) and I'm going to give him the Sakura goodies for splitting. So anyone else you really like?
>>122063447 It's a combined Sakura/Ilya route with 60% Sakura and 40% Ilya. I wanted one that's at least 80% small cup even if the end result is the usual one. I mean, pieceing it together from her scenes in the three routes is rewarding, but I'd rather she was in the proper spotlight for once.
>>122063362 She was rather uninteresting earlier, but that scene is way over the top. The way she is completely doesn't agree with me. For me, the perfect Seiba would be Nero with sluttiness toned down a bit.
>>122063696 If we come right down to it, Tsukihime is the most correct answer. To be more specific, Hisui route. Dammit, it was so beautiful a route. I didn't imagine I would enjoy Tsukihime more than FSN but I really did.
>>122063808 Not him, but I would take keeping myself warm and not freezing myself to death over looking fancy any day. Proper clothing is absolutely crucial to surviving cold; it's not a matter of preference, it's a matter of not dropping dead. Though maybe it isn't really that cold where they live? Snow appears on a pretty wide range of temperatures, it could be either -5 or -30 C where they live; the difference is kinda huge. If the temperature is not really that relatively cold, they could keep warm even without covering their ears, I guess. Also, they're both homunculi. I have no idea how do they work. They could be more resistant to cold or maybe they have spells against freezing or something.
I don't really get why so many people have trouble with the Fate True end. Not counting Last Episode it really is the best possible end for her. In that end she was convinced that the life she had led had been a good one, in fact better than most and also that it was a life to proud of. She doesn't reach that conclusion in any of the other endings, it is the only ending were she feels that the life she had lived had meaning. And then there is the fact that she had also already lived her life, the life of Arthur was no ordinary life, she lived her life and "died" only to receive some "bonus life" the moment before her death, and that is already more than most people get, and she also reaches the conclusion that she shouldn't sully that life by living another one that she shouldn't have lived. And while Shirou didn't fully like that at first he also understood it and accepted it. For her to reach the conclusion that her life had been a good one, truly must have been one of the greatest gifts she could have received considering how she had already lived her life only to regret everything at the end, with her new-found answer she died happily. And everyone dies, and she also already happened to be "dead" and her life was a good either way.
So what are people finding it so sad really? In almost every discussion about Saber everyone always rambles about her supposedly "sad" ending.
You also need to consider how the Last Episode chapter wasn't even canon until years later when it was published. I am not saying its bad, but it certainly isn't the only way for Fate to end.
But you do want to think about it from Saber's perspective as well. Naturally, she would appreciate to be loved like that for the rest of his life. But she would not want to weigh him down like that for the remainder of his life. She had already lived her life, and her life was a good one, a great one even. Shirou knew this, and he made Saber accept this as well. And at the end of her life, she even got to experience true love, like some kind of extra, or reward/price to be that final little cherry on top of an already great life.
Their consensus, mind you, were that her life was done. She could have chosen to stay, but that was not what they agreed upon. Certainly, Saber didn't plan on leaving Shirou with a "Oh now don't you ever dare to love another woman Shirou!", rather, they were in agreement on how their time together had been lovely, and now it was time to leave the past behind without it weighing them down. WIth this in mind she chose to go back to her time and meet her end, and for Shirou to go on with his life as normal.
Last Episode is a romantic ending that is of course lovely in its own way, and that grants them happiness in their reunion and eternal companionship. But this is still just a possibility. I dare say that Saber being the only woman for Shirou is not the point of that ending.
All of you people hating on Last Episode because it's a *cop out* better not like HF, because HF's true end is also a massive cop out.
You say that we already know that Shirou loves Saber, but it's more about his ideal? I say it's about how his love can be powerful enough to trascend TIME and SPACE for her; the exact same type of love that made him drop his ideals to become Sakura's superhero in HF. Yes, LE is a bit redundant, but to pass it off as entirely pointless and that it contributes nothing to Shirou's character is asinine.
tl;dr People who hate LE but like HF are hypocrites or Sakurafags
>>122064293 Sella is frail because she has advanced magic circuitry. Liz is dum because she's mostly a dress and a fighter. Grail vessels have limited lifespan because they are vessels, and other than that they work like standard humans pretty much. Non-special issue homunculi don't exceed human norms of frailty and are usually biologically immortal.
>>122064348 Yeah, I guess. I just live in a country where it gets extremely cold during the winter (and boiling during the summer but that's beside the point), and I felt like setting anon straight about the importance of warm clothing during the winter. It's a big deal if you ever spend winter in a country where snow is not an anomaly.
I don't see why people thought HF was bad, it seemed like the most indepth route to me, a lot of shit happened and a lot of stuff was explained that i wanted to know about, plus Zelretch appeared in the end, which was awesome. The only down fall maybe was saber not really being a character. Also even though we learned a lot more about Kirei, before he died they didn't give him a chance to speak, he just died... The ending was the best one two, i felt like the first and UBW could of had a more longer ending.
>>122064204 I never used any flowcharts so I mapped every possible choice and where it leads myself. It took me like three weeks on and off, often I just sat and thought where I went wrong instead of actually going through the VN. Although when I was left with only Fate to map I was already convinced it just doesn't exist, but I still did it.
>>122064646 Saber was already an important character in the previous two routes. I like her as much as anyone else, but there's no reason for her to monopolize the spotlight if it isn't necessary to the plot.
My problem with Last Episode was that it didn't have a place in the narrative. Saber's death in Heaven's Feel was a perfect and fitting end to her role in the story. It acted as the final bit of closure to the themes and symbols brought up in the Fate route.
Last Episode was completely unnecessary because the story wasn't about Shirou and Saber's relationship at all.
>>122064646 I don't think HF was bad, just not executed the best way. A lot of people bring up the pacing, which is true to an extent. Nasu spent a long time trying to build up the atmosphere that he sometimes forgot to actually make things happen.
Probably the worst part of HF for me was Sakura. Before you guys greentext me, I don't hate her, I just think she's a boring character, and the entire route was less enjoyable because of that.
Last Episode isn't liked because it's almost apologetically written for Saber fans that get shafted every end. Fate was a noble closing, she's reduced more or less to Rin's gag bitch in UBW, and Saber was the player punch in HF.
But then Realta Nua comes along and Nasu almost 180s his whole of nobility by writing this "Fate"/Archer extra end (as it's utterly out of character for UBW Shirou or HF Shirou) where Saber is waiting like a good waifu for the one love she dared to have.
So...wait, you're sorry for Saber, but what about Rider? Caster? Ayako or Illya (who only got greenlighted a new spinoff series as an afterthought)? Truthfully it's about as out of place and overly happy as HF's True End--pan-zoom some time later and suddenly everyone's okay and balanced and no one's showing any kind of scars.
Coincidentally, it's the same thing I disliked about Kohaku's end (re: treatment of Akiha).
And then he has the balls to go and do Fate/Zero. Fuck Saber's happiness. Be the legend, not the waifu.
>>122064788 I don't agree at all. The point was that Shirou and Saber were extremely compatible with one another, and LE was simply the ending to their story. It was nice that it was added on at the end. I got HF normal last so it was very refreshing. I don't understand people who hate on endings in this game so much. I think that CoTD and LE go together just fine. At this point I'm convinced some people just have a massive hard on for bittersweet endings.
>>122062764 Yeah, but Kiritsugu is dead, and Saber is the mascot for the Fate series. UBW focuses on an new character who had nothing to do with the events in Fate/Zero, Shirou.
The Fate route focuses on the relationship between Shirou and Saber, helping Saber find atonement, get over her betrayal, find true love (ironically with the son of the man who betrayed her and whom she hated), and find happiness beyond obtaining the holy grail.
That's why the Fate route works best as the sequel to Zero.
>>122064788 >Saber's death in Heaven's Feel was a perfect and fitting end to her role in the story Really? I thought it was simply awful - she died with anger and regret. Her character arc was utterly unresolved, however cool it was. CotD was a perfect way to end her story, the rest of Fate is left to the other characters however.
>because the story wasn't about Shirou and Saber's relationship at all. But that's just wrong. LE is about how so strong Shirou and Saber's connection was that they managed to meet in magical fairy land.
>>122064933 The fact that Saber got her loose ends tied up in a proper ending shouldn't surprise anyone, she was a protagonist and a main character; the other servants were not. There's nothing that says the other characters can't fix their own shit at some undetermined point in the future.
Either way, the implications in Last Episode are that both parties basically went through aeons of agony in order to achieve what's depicted at the very end. The majority of couples in the modern day can't even wait until they die the first time to start hating each other. That you don't actually get to play/read through Saber and Shirou's endless pursuit of one another doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
The problem with Last Episode is that people either trashed it without playing it figuring it was just a cop-out "tadaima" happy ending, or they didn't bother to actually digest what they read. The text that comes before the last scene is admittedly wordy, but it's the actual content of that ending.
The reason why people (Saber-fags in particular) like Last Episode is because Shirou in the Fate ending is absolutely pitiful. His attitude toward the entire grail war is dismissive to a bothersome extent, and way he reacts to something as sincere as Saber's confession was disgraceful. Had the Fate ending come about as a result of Saber's choice, it would be slightly more acceptable. The Fate ending is still there for those who like it, but Last Episode finally gave people the opportunity to pursue what they really wanted.
>>122064975 Personally, I think Nasu should just go ahead and rewrite Fate without subconsciously thinking that Saber is a man, if nothing else but to appease Takeuchi for muh no anime. But then again, that would just end in more Fate/milking
In HF true end, since they destroyed the great holy grail and everything was revealed to the chruch, can llyas family still do the holy grail war? Also something i just noticed, in the normal ending of HF, what happened to llya? Also shriou died right, then who did sakura see in the very end? not that it really matters since it was a terrible ending to begin with, almost as bad as akihas endings.
>>122064927 Fine then, I just wanted her to not end up as a tool, exceed her purpose and live happily with her onii-san. Maybe grow up somehow. To not be the cup but just a normal girl. All that despite the fact she ends up happy in HF. That's all.
Yes I am an idiot who wasted a lot of his time pursuing the impossible, thank you.
Shirou meets Saber in Avalon. However, Shirou falls in love with Saber in the Fate route, which means that he does not discard his naive ideals, and will be betrayed by them. Therefore, the Shirou of Fate definitely becomes Archer. This scene is therefore contradictory in and of itself, because Archer agrees to become a Counter Guardian, which means that he will be serving Gaia forever. He cannot break out of his cycle, and therefore, reaching an Avalon with Saber is truly impossible. The Last Episode shows a scene that presumably never occurs, or only occurs when Emiya breaks free of his duties as a Counter Guardian (which means that the Earth is dead).
You are now realizing that Shirou (as both Emiya and Counter Guardian Archer) meeting Saber is truly FATEful, a cosmic coincidence
You are now also realizing that Saber's NP 'Avalon, All is but a Distant Utopia' also in some way reflects the impossibility of the Last Episode
>>122065104 >In HF true end, since they destroyed the great holy grail and everything was revealed to the chruch, can llyas family still do the holy grail war?
They could potentially restart it, but considering jump-starting it in the 1800s took TWO sorcerers and three magus families, it clearly takes a lot of effort, and the Einsberns are xenophobic assholes.
>Also something i just noticed, in the normal ending of HF, what happened to llya?
Vanishes after performing the Third Sorcery.
>Also shriou died right, then who did sakura see in the very end?
Sakura joining him in death.
>not that it really matters since it was a terrible ending to begin with, almost as bad as akihas endings.
>>122061106 Well, basically in a nutshell: Fate is simple romantic adventure story about one of the most famous heroic spirits. Unlimited Blade Works is a story about heroic ideal confrontation with embodiment of this ideal and accepting results. And Heaven's Feel is typical "Always Save the Girl" story with dark atmosphere.
Point is that Unlimited Blade Works has most grandest initial idea about heroism. Thus is easiest to deliver. But still it's about individual preferences of each reader. For example I love "Always Save the Girl" kind of stories but unfortunately Sakura is not enough interesting heroine for me to fully enjoy HF story, thus UBW is obvious choice to me.
>>122065207 It hasn't been confirmed, but it was something like a less than 1% chance of it happening.
>>122065134 I don't think the contents that you described happen, but I do agree that the Fate route really has the essence of "fate" in it that the other routes really do not. Therefore, it's less realistic, but more beautiful and alluring in its fantasy.
I always think it strange that the "default" end for Heaven's Feel is Return to the Spring, or the true end, if you play it correctly (you have enough illya points and don't use one too many projections).
in my opinion, the first time you play through it, you should get Cherry Blossom Dream, or the normal end, as the first one, then replay it and have another option to pick to get the True End, just like how in Tsukihime, in Hisui's route, the default end was the Normal End, then you have to replay it and get the new choice and pick it for the Good End.
Anyone else feel this way as well? Whenever I got my friends to play it I always told them to use a projection to get the normal end first, then to go back and pick another option for the true end.
I never found her to be shy. She's smiley, confident, and sweet in her times cooking with Shirou and Taiga.
I mean, look at the other girls in FSN. She's way more romantically assertive (slut dohohoho) than the other girls. Rin is completely repressed in her relationship with Shirou. Saber and Shirou's involvement felt less romantic and more like comradeship, like bros with benefits (this was not a bad thing).
Honestly, I think she gets the dislike because she virtually doesn't exist outside of heaven's feel. Whereas Rin got tons of screentime but even her own route didn't focus on her romantically, Sakura's is almost the opposite with sex sex and then crazy evil. We see all of her weakness and darkness all at once and in such extremes that it puts a lot of people off. Saber and Rin have their own problems, but they aren't explored as deeply as Sakura's and they're also interspersed with normal interactions, while Sakura rapidly heads into Angry Mayu(that was a joke) land and is evil until her redemption.
It's a good plot, but it works directly against liking Sakura, and since Heaven's Feel is all about how Shirou's love for her overcomes his obsession with his ideal, it weakens the story.
I think Heaven's Feel would have been stronger if Sakura's character had been more firmly established, instead of only living in the beginning section that you skip after your first time.
>>122065745 That sounds like a good solution, to give Sakura a more clearly defined personality besides cute kouhai. But I suppose it was part of Nasu's plan to make her sudden change have a greater impact, though it ended up having a worse effect than good.
>>122065413 Because he gave up on his ideals in HF route, and it's made a point that Archers fall was due to his ideals betraying him. In Archers memories that Rin sees, she says that he was betrayed and killed by the ones he loved, but he didn't see it as a betrayal, he still was the same old shirou and from his perspective he was just happy that he could be of use, which is pretty much what happened in one of the endings in HF barring a few critical key points like him not making a contract with the world.
The HF route is supposed to be close to the Ilya route, and it's said that heroic spirit Emiya was not produced in any of the routes in Fate Stay Night, so HF and by comparison Ilya was the closest to what could have happened. Also Angra Manyus little shrine embryo was on a hill underground and it is said that he died on a hill, skewered by swords.
>>122065745 >Honestly, I think she gets the dislike because she virtually doesn't exist outside of heaven's feel. She gets disliked because she's a woe is me character plus a doormat personality with 100% concentrated plot. Not to mention she's used goods.
>>122066041 Shinji...I don't get why he gets all the hate on /a/. FSN is just written to make him out as the bad guy, when really he's no worse than any of the 'protagonists' and a better person than most of them.
What are the main complaints? He raped Sakura and stole Rider to use in the war?
Okay, let's get this straight. He never fucking raped Sakura. He never did it. He never did it. He never did it. He never did it. He fucked Sakura.
Let me ask you this. WHO IN THE GAME DIDN'T FUCK SAKURA? You can't even name one fucking character who hasn't plugged her loose cunt! She is the kind of bitch who will act like she doesn't want it when she really does. She'll say No! while having multiple orgasms. Shinji knew this, he's a fucking ladies man. He knows what filthy whores like Sakura want.
And there's this other big bitch you guys have with him. He supposedly stole Rider and used her in the war for his own greed.
Objection! He was worried about his one and only precious sister. Is keeping your loved ones from a brutal war so wrong? When Shirou does the same thing to Saber it's like 'oh he's so manly', but when Shinji does it it's wrong? He just wanted to protect Sakura. He probably was going to use his Holy Grail wish to tighten her cunt back up or cure her syphilis or something.
The story was written to make that faggot Shirou look good. Objectively, Shinji is a far better character than Shirou. At least he has the balls to take action decisively instead of dicking around like Shirou, and if he weren't stuck with the weak ass servant Rider and no plothax he probably would have won the war.
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