We explain why Fate is one of the worst series to have ever existed and why it's fanbase is the worst fanbase that you could ever find.
Nigga I like your words. Fate is a big fat overrated shit.
That being said, this thread is also shit. Delete it.
Fate/Stay Night is a gateway eroge of the worst kind. It's a bad game, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive waify faggotry and DARKNESS. The normal anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the franchise itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.
However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for aspie, unsociable underageb& faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The superpowered characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the noble phantasms, peculiar, colorful clothes, the whole servants faggotry and everything about the Fate/Stay Night world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on heroism, and overall preachiness of the series make it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes little kiddies and underageb& retards eat this shit right the fuck up.
Fate/Stay Night is basically THE franchise to attract the most hated anime fanbase known to /a/, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every anon to troll the fuck out of this show and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Fate/Stay Night threads ever encourage the newfriends to show their faces here.
The thing is Fate/Stay Night is a magnet for idiots who don't even know how to discuss something properly nor did they watch a lot of series to have a better taste. Why is Gaia considered shit? Because most of their threads are about Fate/Stay Night or Twilight. Sure I wouldn't care if it was a one thread with normal posts and spelling but most threads are something like:"Saber is uber kawaii i am going to cosplay Kotomine at school gambatte" Having more Fate/Stay Night threads here lures those kind of people who know about 4chan because of "funny images and jokes" and they usually ignore global rule about being underage. Do you see Japanese 2chan anime board having endless discussions and fanwanking about Fate/Stay Night? No, Because they think its a silly show for children.
It's stupid, it's full of plotholes, it's littered with characters that are just plain HORRIBLE, the fanbase is on par with the twilight and avatar one, atrocious fanshippers who watch the stuff only to see which girl will the protagonist that is irrefutably gay fuck first, extremely undeveloped characters and a utterly ridiculous anti hero who's lifeline is deus ex machina, actually, 98% of characters rely on that because Type-Moon can't write above anything what a caveman with a club lodged up his prehistoric anus could.
Also did i mention it's very yaoi'ish, thus attracting fujoshi and white knights who follow them, mouthbreathers and faggots? It also attracts ADHD children, which, no matter how much your mother told you to respect the sick, are not wanted on /a/ and should just die off like the waste of resources they are.
It's also the exactly same shit as Naruto just in another setting.
Fate is like Naruto, it's really bad. The characters are bad, story is bad and even the character design is bad. The fanbase are even worse. Literally autistic motherfuckers who can't take any criticism.
Yeah, yeah, shitposting. I doubt you really mean it.
But in all seriousness, Fate is much more like DC cape comics. Which may not say much, but Naruto isn't even a multi-franchise product.
>handful of hardcore autistic fans
Just like here on /a/
I enjoy Fate/whatever, but I by no means think it's the greatest thing ever, it's just kinda fun.
I have objectively shit taste in anime though. I watch it when I'm bored of my 2deep 3dpd western shit.
KING OF CUCKS
PLEASES OLD MEN FOR MONEY
Do I fit in yet guys
I see the Fate Defense Force is patrolling the catalog.
>You don't like this poorly-written garbage? Here, you have to play 3 VNs and watch an anime!
You fucking idiots refuse to ever take any criticism. Fate is literal shit. The anime is the only good thing to ever come out of it, because the animation is pretty nice.
My only problem with Fate is that the writing is so fucking overrated. When bringing up how any issue with the anime's content fans will deflect by saying, "it's better in the VN". Really? The anime is arguably more relevant than the source material so why act like it doesn't matter?
Other than that I'm fine with it, oh except for the fact the protag is one of the most insufferable faggots I've ever come across. Take a haremshit protag and throw him in an action series and he will become Shirou. Of course he gets a pass because again, fans will say, "he's better in the VN".
In the VN's defense, it suffers from TakaJun's pidgin english. The actual moon apparently has an actual style besides seafood. Although I can't deny that the plot and story itself isn't the best.
>Didn't read VN
>doesn't know VN shows the thoughts of characters
>he anime is arguably more relevant than the source material so why act like it doesn't matter?
I don't think you understand how people interact with media. The relevancy of the anime or the VN is not the point when talking about the quailty of a works writting.
3 points to consider
>You cannot judge the VN based on an adaptation. Which is what most "critics" of Fate, do.
>You cannot judge the prose of the VN unless you know Japanese.
>Shirou gets a pass from people who've read the VN because they see him grow. At the end of Fate, Shirou is better than virtually all haremprotag (the comparison is stupid as Shirou is not a haremprotag, especially in UBW). UBW Shirou and HF Shirou are better. And even people who don't like Fate/SN will admit that HF Shirou is a better character than Kiritsugu.
So this is why people tell you to shut up and read the VN. Because you're ignorant and make arguments based on what other people think and on adaptations.
>The anime is arguably more relevant than the source material so why act like it doesn't matter?
You're an idiot. The VN is far more popular than any anime adaptation. Stop thinking your shitty western forums equals the whole world.
>refuse to take any criticism
>hurr durr I wasn't shitposting
You're an idiot. Stop lurking the threads and read the source material.
You're just as stupid as the people who used to lurk NGE threads without watching the anime and thought the majority of the show was (Rei vs Asuka). And you're probably too new to even remember those threads.
It very much is. Thinking that Shirou is just another haremprotagonist (i.e bland) proves the point that he didn't read the VN.
>Simply have more fun pulling the leg of others that have a chip on their shoulder about the franchise.
>"chip on their shoulders" equates liking and not having a grudge/hating
Is your ignorance about idioms just as big as your ignorance about FSN or do you just enjoy being retarded?
This is stupid.
Even in the VN, Shirou isn't that much great of a character than any harem MC. You couldn't even say he was mediocre. His so called developments is mind numbing at best.
The anime is more popular.
You're that idiot on the wheelchair. And if you weren't new, you'd have the sense not to repeat that pathetic retort.
Possible ways to fix Feight:
1: Have it as straight /h/ and everyone gets laid.
2: Shirou is a sorta-successful try-hard (hated by the Wapanese) instead of a vagina-fearing spineless self-insert.
3: Have the sub-plot be about Shiro having sex with Sakura and Rider (while the main show be about Saber & Rin beinig lesbians and trying to kick Gilgamesh in his nuts).
I am the bane of all germs
Sponge is my body and Windex is my blood
I have swept over a thousand messes
Unknown to Dust, Nor known to Clean
Have withstood pain to scrub many things
Yet, those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, Unlimited Maid Works.
>Even in the VN, Shirou isn't that much great of a character than any harem MC.
Elaborate with examples. You can't expect people to take your arguments seriously if you don't give any thought to them.
>His so called developments is mind numbing at best.
Your argumentation is far worse than that.
>The anime is more popular.
And Troy is more popular than the Iliad but you'd be an idiot to judge Homer's poem by a movie.
I don't think Fate is THAT popular.
People only want to spam this shit, to make it poplar
Just saying it's shit is a shitpost unless you give concrete argument backed by evidence. Then again this is why /a/ is so shit. Few have the capacity to put forth a thoughtful argument...
>a person that didn't realise it was until spelled out for him.
This part of the sentence is so stupidly arranged. Did you pass your English highschool classes?
And no, don't assume you tried to do sarcasm. For one, you don't even know how to write proper sarcasm. You're losing all sense of reason because you got triggered from a simple insult.
Deflection through semantics, not bad, but it isn't enough to save you being caught out being a retard no matter how many ebin reaction pictures you pull out the hat. Thread it already dead as fuck so I'll just end it here.
>what are semantics
I'm laughing at how more idiotic you can be.
Let me guess, you're going to claim again that you were only pretending to be retarded? Your imagination is as deficient as your rhetoric.
No one disputes that Nasu has very good ideas. He's an idea man. But his actual writing and execution for stories is pretty horrid. The way he develops characters and the dialogue he writes is generally pure trash. His scenarios are also bogged down with shitty crap which doesn't make the best use of the good general ideas.
This is why Fate/Zero is not considered purely a Type-Moon work. Because it is written by a writer who actually knows how to use the good ideas well, and craft a compelling story with good characters in it.
Oh fuck where do you even begin.
The pretentious "exploration" of heroic ideologies and altruism?
The fact that all of the heroines are shit characters and the romantic elements are completely laughable?
Contrary to what butthurt, Fatetard VN kiddies will say, the anime is an improvement because at least Ufotable delivers something that is enjoyable to look at. Those of us that read it without one hand on our cock can see it for how terrible it is.
>hurr durr I have to cheat on my wife so I can betray her later
No this is not example of good writing. Fate Zero is crap when it comes to that. Thankfully, the anime was an improvement over the source material by omitting such idiocy.
The episode opens with the lead faction, showing their family unit and establishing their base of origin. Then it introduces the Church faction, explains some general knowledge about the Grail, and brings intrigue into the story in the form of a planned conspiracy to create an unfair advantage in this coming conflict. After this it introduces the Japanese setting for the show, and the characters closest linked to that. In doing so, it also sub-consciously informs the audience that these three factions (Einzbern, Tohsaka, Matou) are the main families who are traditionally involved in this battle.
After this, the narrative returns to Kiritsugu investigating other potential players in the coming war. This shows that he is a resourceful man, and starts building his character for the audience. This leads to the introduction of the Mage Association, and the relationship between Kayneth and Waver. Through Waver we then learn the origins of the Grail War and the rules of engagement regarding it. This also starts building his character as a student who is weaker in knowledge and has to learn things which the other characters already know.
From this point on, the main players are all introduced, and the narrative then uses a contrast technique to show the difference between how Kirei and Tokiomi operate and how Kiritsugu and Irisviel operate. The two sides also try to describe the other, showing us exactly how much or how little each knows about the other. It also foreshadows the most important conflict between two characters that will form the undercurrent of the entire series.
The episode then concludes with showing each of the introduced factions preparing one by one for the summoning process, creating a sense that something is about to truly begin. It concludes with the summoning of Saber - indicating that the main Servant of the series has arrived, and the moment has finally come for all the preparations and planning and scheming to bear fruit.
That is an established parental conspiracy, one that I shall have no part in, but are you going to say with a straight face that another such conspiracy is at work in people viewing Fate, people much smarter than Fate's fanbase, as shit?
The former is said by people who have read the VN and watched the anime.
The latter is said by people who have only watched the anime, because they think reading is hard.
Keep that in mind.
I was going to make a statement on the writing, but the first paragraph of >>122171822 has basically already said it for me. I disagree with the second paragraph because I also see Urobuchi as a bad writer, but for entirely different reasons.
At the end of the day Fate isn't much different from what you'd see in a standard shonen manga, it just likes to also throw out a ton of ideas it doesn't use well and sex scenes.
Tori could write circles around Nasu when it comes to developing characters and an overall narrative.
F/SN characters are better, Nasu's "problem" is that he stuffs everything he thinks of into his stories without many filters. There are advantages to that though, he approaches those ideas from many angles and leaves no stone unturned.
It also feels slow due to being written in present tense and genre fiction is often times past tense but that's because it's a VN.
The story in Fate/Zero isn't that good, it's mostly the high stakes due to the battle royal format and the characters are pretty lackluster and the best ones are Nasu's characters not Gen's.
F/SN isn't even supposed to be a story on its own but three different complimentary ones, so the comparison is pretty stupid in the first place.
It is a bad excuse, in fact a horrible one, but then again the way his mind works and the choices he makes definitely would make it a necessity to complete his mission. Damn what a great character.
And the funnier thing is you lack any mental capacity to counter argue. It's only natural for you to stay back.
> a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
> a plan or agreement formulated, esp. in secret, by two or more persons to commit an unlawful, harmful, or treacherous act.
>a group of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose.
Actually, don't stop posting. Your idiocy is entertaining to watch. I can't wait for you next dumb statement.
>then again the way his mind works and the choices he makes definitely would make it a necessity to complete his mission.
So he's a manchild. That doesn't make him a good character unless he was suffering from sort sort of heavy brain damage.
Tori was the main scenario writer for Rance II through VII (Sengoku). The company president TADA wrote the first game, and a guy whose name I forget has written the series since VIII (Quest), after Tori left the company due to helath reasons.
For nearly 20 years she created the majority of the principle characters, the DEEPEST LORE of the universe, and most of what defines Rance as a character.
The discussion about Kiritsugu and Shirley about what would want to be when he grows up. At this point, the audience knows more about his life as an adult, and we know that he becomes what he wished for in his childhood: to be a hero of justice. Yet, when Shirley tells him that his father's research has the power to change the world, Kiritsugu can not actually say what he wants to become. His wish then is not the same thing that his father wishes for, but he can't manage to say that out loud. So when Shirley tells Kiritsugu that she'll watch over him until he grows up, she says that with the wrong impression that his desire is to continue his father's work and then goes off to prove that the Emiya's research can help people. This is probably the point where Kiritsugu's life might have changed for the better if he simply had the courage to say what he wanted to say, since Shirley then might have not been too eager to show off the magecraft's accomplishments. In constrast, adult age Kiritsugu makes no attempt at hiding what he wants to accomplish in the Holy Grail War, which definitely would have the effect of changing the world.
Kirei is pretty intresting and well developed I would like anyone argue agaainst that without resorting to oversimplification.
All the main characters in F/SN are excelent as well. Rin is one of the better excecuted tsundere's I've seen mostly because she's not defined by the trope. Sakura is an intresting take on a human affected by Lovecraftian-esque being, might not be realistic but I like that stuff in fiction. Illya is a refreshing take on "Rapunzel", and so on.
I could keep going but I'm done with the thread, it's getting pretty stupid and I just got here.
I think that the scene with Shirley was directed in a way where it is EXTREMELY deceptive to the audience, for a stronger effect. When Shirley is talking to Kiritsugu about the power to change the world, and how she believes in him, based on what the audience knows from the rest of the series, it is assumed that because her words mirror his current goal so much, his father's research might actually be related to helping people or doing good. Instead the tragic twist is that his father had no intentions to help anyone, and his research was taboo experiments meant simply to extend his own lifespan.
In that sense, Shirley was wrong about the research and she paid for it with her life, but her words to Kiritsugu do seem to have a profound influence on him, since even today he is seeking for a true way to change the world for the better. It'll be interesting to see next week what other influences Kiritsugu had as he grew into the man he is today.
Yes, she is a woman, this has been known since forever. She joined Alicesoft after graduating from high school.
While the titular character himself is more multifaceted than he likes to let on, I'm talking more about the Ranceverse itself. It's very much a fully realized world, with a lot of care put into it. Even with all the fantastical elements, the world feels "real" and believable. It helps that Alicesoft has always been good with internal consistency.
>He is Aristotle of anime.
I hold back modern thinking for centuries?
And I'm saying comparing one to Aristotle isn't exactly a good thing, because while he was good for philosophy, he was a detriment to science in western cvilization for 1800 years because people just accepted what he said as law.
Did you learn japanese from college, learn it by yourself, or are you from Japan? If one of the former, how long did it take you to get to a point where you could read anything you wanted?
>he was a detriment to science in western cvilization for 1800 years because people just accepted what he said as law.
Now that's the stupidest thing I've in this thread. Congrats.
Kirei is the only good character. Everybody else is horrible.
Lets start with Rin. Her worst problem is that she is Tsundere. She acts really stupid in most situation involving Shirou. Her character towards everything Shirou is really cringeworthy.
Sakura is even worse. What's her character? She's the damsel that's conveniently a prodigy at a different kind of magic that got turned into a monster when she is tortured when her father send her to an evil magician that he conveniently didn't know just because. Other than that? Nothing.
Illya. Actually I like Illya but if you say she was in anyway a developed character, you are wrong. Heck, she isn't even alive. All I could say about her is twisted way to exact revenge.
All the female characters just want to fuck Shirou and just revert to shitty damsels in distress. It started with a nice focus on this psychological aspect, then just gave up about what any of that means.
I learned it as a little kid, so I've always been able to read it. Same way any kid learns a language, we just pick it up through exposure.
>"No matter who disagreed with them, even other philosophers, Aristotle's ideas - whether right or wrong - usually won out. After eighteen centuries, universities accepted them as if they had been written in stone." ~ Isaac Asimov
No I understood he was being sarcastic, I just felt it insulting to be compared to Aristotle.
How do people argue a point without providing context? This whole thread is just
>Hurr what you like is shit
>No it's not.
Rin does act stupid from time to time but it's justified, she tries to balance the pragmatic magus life style with her own feelings not just towards Shirou but also Sakura and her relationship with the later was perfectly handled in my opinion. She makes stupid mistakes, yes, but that does not make her a bad character.
Have you read F/SN or just the wiki? Illya only dies in UBW and HF but you clearly haven't read HF because she's doesn't want to exact revenge there and she gets a lot of screen time, if you had read HF you would be able to say a lot more about her.
See the trouble with these fans is that they're extremely defensive. The first reaction to anyone saying something bad is "OMG HAVE YOU READ THE ORIGINAL?" and assuming that the only alternative is that someone "watched the anime". As if there are no other options inbetween. Did someone watch the original anime? Or the movie? Maybe someone played part of the game or the prologue. If they felt that the writing was abysmal, why would they continue?
I think that it's fair to say that a reasonable person would have enough information from all that to know how Nasu approaches characters and narratives, and what sort of themes he likes to explore. I don't care for his ideas, I think they're extremely childish, and his characterizations are immature try-hard attempts at exploring serious themes.
Putting aside the quality of the VNs, I don't think Fate/Zero stands on its own very well. It has too many open plot threads that are left open because Fate/Stay Night deals with them. The series and the novels that spawned them are a prequel that is designed as one; it expects you to have knowledge of the universe and, to some degree, knowledge of what happens in Fate/Stay Night. I don't consider it a good entry point even if it's better than the original work (largely because Nasu is an inferior writer to Urobuchi).
Porn with plot is not a good anime. These adaptations of shitty LNs and VNs are exactly that. The porn gets shoved in because that's just how the medium works and it needs to sell, and then they adapt it and it's obviously shoved in because it's an adaptation of a shitty medium.
It's just venting. Maybe the OP got his ass handed too rhetorically previously on another /a/ thread or some other forum and made this thread. Who knows.
The posters here are just baiting.
See this proves my point >>122172932
He got angry reading a post on reddit and made the thread.
It's not real literature, or rather it isn't good literature. It's not even pulp fiction. It's just genre fiction written for teenagers.
Read an actual book of literary merit and then tell me that Fate is well-written. How many books do you people even read on average that you think it stands well among them?
The post was projection.
I had to google that to even know it was reddit. You've obviously been there for a long time to know about that forum on that social media website for.
>inb4 you don't know about reddit
Of course dummy but you do because you're a redit user.
/jp/ was created for shit that doesn't fit under anime and manga.
Many mods have it clear that anything that has an anime or manga adaptation can be talked about. Stop being so new. Lurk the archives, mmkay?
>/jp/ was created for shit that doesn't fit under anime and manga.
Yeah, and I rememeber what the state of /a/ was before /jp/ was made. You think "can Shiki kill servants?" is bad now? It was at its apex then, that and "there is no tsukihime anime".
The only difference is that back then we discussed Tsukihime, not Fate.
Are you really justifying her actions. Stupid action is still stupid. Justifying anything like that is really dumb of you. Even more so, if you try to justify that she only acts really stupid with Shirou.
We were talking about UBW right. So she did die.
Whatever that means, F/SN was far more enjoyable for me than many other "classics". I don't think something like "To kill a mockingbird" would added much more value to my life than Fate.
And there's no point in comparing books to VN since they different mediums. A hundred years of Solitude might have top tier prose but it doesn't have the the fitting memorable soundtrack that Fate does nor does it make good use of sound design to convery the fear and confusion of it's main characters, just like Fate doesn't have the amazing descriptions to bring the scenes to life.
Good characters sometime do stupid actions. Humans are flawed.
But when it becomes too much, then it's a problem. But you're not going to be able to argue that.
>I use the verb 'read' to describe a childish CYOA self-insert picture book marketed to otaku
>Despite the fact every other board & community uses the verb 'play'
Stupid action isn't bad writing you idiot.
>We were talking about UBW right. So she did die.
I'll just quote an earlier post I made
>F/SN isn't even supposed to be a story on its own but three different complimentary ones, so the comparison is pretty stupid in the first place.
It's elevated to a height that's comparable to other VN/anime/shit coming from Japan.
Don't compare it to good stuff from Western culture.
No. I replied to someone who did.
Fate as a VN has fucking awful art.
Just throwing that out there.
Reminder not to be deceived by sunk cost VNfag primaries.
They made the decision long ago to gorge themselves on an inferior medium, knowing full well that a superior, high budget, high quality better medium version was in the works.
They traded quality for early access to content. And misery loves company, they will stop at nothing to trick newfriends into making the same mistake they did.
You should do the following, at the bare minimum
1. Watch Fate/Zero
2. Watch UBW (UFOTABLE)
3. Decide to wait out for the end of UBW, or if you really must and cannot contain your autism to win nerdbattles on /a/, you can play the VN
4. Ditto for the last, worst, wormroutes like HF.
There is zero reason to choose an objectively inferior, decade old VN over a far superior, better artstyle, animated, version of it.
People will argue over "B-but F/Z spoils HF", but if you follow the hivemind way, you'll have F/Z, the best route, spoiled.
It's one of the greatest selling anime of all time for a reason. Meanwhile UBW won't even sell half as much.
Three primary reasons people go for non-anime versions, in order of most to least common.
1. People have to fit into the /a/ hivemind and read the source material, to win autistic internet arguments and feel ~superior~
2. They can't Defer Gratification long enough to wait for an anime
3. The adapation is sufficiently bad to ruin the advantage of the anime medium
Do not be confused, often #1 and #2 are their real reasons, but /a/nons, being either delusional or self aware chronic liars, will almost always claim #3.
Assuming people aren't lying about their age here, apparently so.
>Whatever that means
It means being more than just a story. It means it speaks deeply of the human condition on a level most people have to study just to understand.
Nasu is not Goethe. Hell, he's not even Cervantes (which to me fits perfectly in the area of entertainment >>122173243 mentioned)
>I don't think something like "To kill a mockingbird" would added much more value to my life than Fate.
If that's what you genuinely think, I suggest you reread it and read beyond what the words display. Read what they say.
Nah, he thinks that because he isn't a miserable recluse arguing on /lit/ like a sophist.
That book wasn't that good. If he had said something like 1984 )which is also highschool reading material), I'd be angry because that book has much more relevance today.
People are extremely, immersurably mad that
1. Fate/Zero is one of the best selling anime series of all time
2. It was written by Gen Urobutchi, not Nasu
3. It is incredibly, insanely easy to watch as a stand-alone series
4. It's an anime and not a VN
5. It's the most normalfag route
6. It introduces and explains all the fundamentals of the grail war but spoils HF (and if you read F/SN and F/HF, you spoil F/Z, so one has to suffer)
>Assuming people aren't lying about their age here
Why would you ever assume that? Global Rule 2 is only still there to keep the just turned 18yos who spent their entire 17th year stressed out trying to act older than they are from hunting down and killing moot.
Intrinsic qualities of Anime:
Intrinsic qualities of Manga:
Intrinsic qualities of LNs:
Intrinsic Qualities of VNs:
>Voice Acting (Sometimes crippled)
>Choose your own adventure (Agency)
>(Possibly some shitty psuedoanimation, but never anywhere near the level of Anime)
As you can see, apart from CYOA of VNs, every medium is fundamentally a _SUBSET_ of Animation.
From a fundamental, objective, unbiased metric, Anime as a _MEDIUM_ is objectively superior to Manga and LN as a rule.
The only quality Anime lacks is the CYOA nature of VNs, but it boasts animation instead. It can be argued then the subjective superiority of the two mediums, Anime and VNs, boils down to if you perfer animation, or CYOA, in your medium.
Note this assumes the VN has full voice acting. If it does not, it fails this test and anime is objectively superior.
You are not the bone of your sword,
that doesn't even make sense
Your body is not made of steel,
and if your blood was fire you would die
You have made little to no blades whatsoever
Unknown to death only because you won't pull the trigger
Nor known to life because you are a loser
Have not created many weapons, but did withstand pain
Yes, those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray: "Unlimited Sad Frogs"
People really overestimate how bad "spoilers" are. It's painfully obvious already that Archer is Shirou from the future. It's not like "It's his sled" level spoiler, it's just "ugh, ok that's what they decided to do"
You're supposed to enjoy the journey, not the destination, in Fate. And the (ufotable) anime is a luxurious limo ride on the main road. The VN is a model T that can travel on the side roads as well.
Take the nice trip and then circle back onto the dirt path if you really want to.
And Oni-san Tatsuya is more competent than nearly all of them. The point is that the F/Z master work better with what skills they have without relying on just being really powerful in a passive way or taking advantage of absurdly written situations (the one hit kill spear that can't seem to kill anything, or wildly unlikely scenarios where masters are beating the crap out of servants).
Whatever the anime adopts is what nasu selected to be The Most Canon.
Two possibilities exist.
1. Nasu has creative, canon control of the anime and selected which route was the cannonest and most deserving of an anime.
2. Nasu does not have creative & canon control of the anime in which case it's merely high budget fanfiction.
If nasu wanted to keep this "harem end" multi-canonverse going he'd have made the anime follow multiple/all routes.
No, Zero's masters, considering their circumstances, were pretty fucking retarded.
You're not arguing that Nasu is bad, you're arguing that he's not highly revered by academics. Goethe is better than every anime or VN writer.
The OP of the thread is making the argument that FSN is the worst in VN or anime. Stop comparing apple to oranges.
>Don Quixote is equivalent to teenage entertainment
Okay, now you're just trolling.
Dude, sometimes you don't have to be a good artist to sell your product. You know how many people in the art world make money off their terrible to mediocre art? It'd make your head spin.
What actually makes a show/manga/game "chuuni" is usually the presentation. It's kinda derogatory in the same way as how some people tend to look down comic book or videogame style works in the west which try super hard to be taken seriously.
When you have something like Naruto or One Piece, where it's clearly targeted at kids and not trying to be anything more, that's not really chuuni because it knows what it is. But when you have those same elements but in a more "serious" context where the authors clearly seem to be taking everything seriously even though it has ridiculous stuff like "The 5th Holy Grail War" and all sorts of made up "rules" and characters shouting attacks while doing them, that's definitely what people would call "chuuni". That also includes all sorts of references to "cool" stuff like [The Mage Association] and so on. It's just viewed as very childish manchildren stuff. Yes, stuff like Xenogears and FFXV are totally viewed that way too.
I guess one parallel in a western context would be the term "syfy". It doesn't mean the same thing, but in cultural tone it's similar in the sense that it's a critique by viewers comparing actual scifi works which are approached in good faith, and scifi works which are just pandering dumbed down stuff meant to hook dumb audiences with superficial presentation and garbage worldbuilding which relies on twists and poorly thought out but cool sounding stuff. Oh, and I guess "phantasy" works the same way too.
But aren't they two different things?
>It means being more than just a story. It means it speaks deeply of the human condition on a level most people have to study just to understand.
A lot of the things with literary value don't really need people to study them to understand, not much more than Fate, which if this thread is anything to go by, a lot of people don't understand it.
1984 has "literarly value" and I'd argue we live in times were almost anyone would get what it means, (I really like it I'm not dissing on it btw)
Literary value is incredibly subjective, and brings nothing to the discussion and I think Fate has just as much value as many great books but a lot of it's value comes from doing things books can't do.
Please keep in mind I didn't say Fate has as much "literary" value as To Kill a Mockingbird, mostly because it's not a fucking book but people seem to focus only on the first part of what I said.
>Why would you ever assume that?
Because I've gotten to the age where I lie and say I'm younger to feel better about myself, so I assume others lie about their age too, just saying they're older.
>Nah, he thinks that because he isn't a miserable recluse arguing on /lit/ like a sophist.
I've been to /lit/ once to see if I could find like-minded people who appreciate a good book.
I have never met a more obnoxious group of self-fellating, quasi philosophers who try so damn hard to find out the meaning of life, forgetting that many books are just an author's outlook on life from their own experience, and that it shouldn't be taken as gospel just because they have a better grasp on things.
It's a good time capsule of southern society when it was written and goes into the subtext of what made it that way.
But people tend to just focus on the message of "racism is bad".
Don't even go there. I used to be young, I remember decades back thinking that shit was good.
There's so much of the EU that's plain shit. Don't get me wrong, Thrawn's great, Dark Empire's art got me into 2000 AD, and the first KotOR might be one of my favorite games. But for all that you get shit like The Glove of Darth Vader, Yuuzhan Vong, The Force Unleashed, the never ending blow job from writers to Boba Fett, Beldorion, and so much more that I'm actually glad they axed it all together.
>Okay, now you're just trolling.
No, I meant it as entertainment for smart people. You misinterpreted my post.
Oh I'm aware, and each time I'm reminded I get a little bit more upset. It just really gets me when shit that relies on that mess (like said eroge) as one of its fucking selling points and then somehow doesn't embarrassingly bomb. It's the feature that's supposed to set it apart from just reading a god damn book and somehow they got away with her having two fucking differently sized eyes GOD WHY
Literally every single number in that post is objectively true and trivial to prove. This is the worst, most clear cut cognitive dissonance and outright blantant lying of an autistic hiveminder i've seen on /a/ in years
It's funny that you're calling /lit/ obnoxious. You're just like them. Comparing VN to highly praised western literature? That's very obnoxious to say the least...
>entertainment for smart people
It's not even that. If you want entertainment for smart people, read non-fiction. That should be the low-bar.
You should read more.
>and if you read F/SN and F/HF, you spoil F/Z
No. Go away.
>If you want entertainment for smart people, read non-fiction. That should be the low-bar.
>You should read more.
>Huxley is bad
Sorry anon, time to kill yourself.
Well, not as if anyone will miss you
Yoh Yoshinari, Hiroyuki Imaishi, Sushio, Ryo Timo
Moebius, Paul Pope, Frank Quitely, Jack Kirby
Katushiro Otomo, Hiroaki Samura, Hayao Miyazaki, Osamu Tezuka
Kinu Nishimura, Yoji Shinkawa, Tatsuya Yoshikawa, Ayami Kojima
Really, is Takeuchi the best we've got?
>Implying it is not objectively true
You know how the 4th war ends, or rather, how it does not.
>It's not even that.
The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha is one of the greatest novels ever written. It practially defined western canon for its time.
>Comparing VN to highly praised western literature? That's very obnoxious to say the least..
First off, fuck off with the ellipses.
Secondly, I'm not the person in the fanbase that tries to say Fate is anything more than a chuuni shonen manga in VN form.
Some people just get lucky and squeeze on by, man. Takeuchi has improved but he still does that deformed chin 3/4 view shit, and pulls the eye way too close to the ears in his side view drawings. But when you're buttfuck buddies with the guy who's been your best friend since High School, you get that "free pass".
You are literally *supposed* to read F/Z with the knowledge from F/SN. Of course, you can also not, but the entire story and every single element touched upon is designed around servicing primary fans of the series. You miss out on literally every single difference between how the fourth war was presented and all of the "extra"-like backstory exposition.
Your silly fiction doesn't do anything that fiction already does for smart people.
It's alright. I understand that you lack the intelligence to appreciate non-fiction. You need things to be simple but presented "beautifully" so you can interpret it any way you want and reward yourself for coming with your own bullshit. You are pseudo-intellectual at best.
>Just saying it's shit is a shitpost unless you give concrete argument backed by evidence.
>Shounen lead gets femdomed.
>Shounen lead can't do what he wants because of feminazies and their ovaries.
>He gets stabbed to death. (And brought back to life, but...)
>He STILL gets femdommed and loses to women; even though he has power.
A lot of people on /a/ enjoys this shits. But not everybody. And not me.
Sorry if my argument sounds like shit to you, but that's the truth. Only gullible idiots bend over and spread their asscheeks wide for femi-nazi ovary-dick.
Says who? or is it this comical farce where people assume "welp, they made this eroge for otaku first, ergo you're supposed to do that first, and then after that enjoy the content made this decade!"
Because I feel bad for you if you fall prey to this
>I guess one parallel in a western context would be the term "syfy". It doesn't mean the same thing, but in cultural tone it's similar in the sense that it's a critique by viewers comparing actual scifi works which are approached in good faith, and scifi works which are just pandering dumbed down stuff meant to hook dumb audiences with superficial presentation and garbage worldbuilding which relies on twists and poorly thought out but cool sounding stuff.
I never thought I would post this on /a/ of all places.
Also personally I agree with you, I hate the term scifi and what it does for the genre's detriment.
>is one of the greatest novels ever written
For dumb people, yes. You have the right to revere shallow attempts at exploring the human condition. But don't claim you're smart...
That's an oxymoron. You're an idiot. If you want to act like a weaboo and use japanese terms, do it right or fuck off from /a/.
>Star Wars original movies RUIN the ending of Star Wars prequels, while the prequels spoil nothing much of the originals
This is how you sound.
Knowing how FZ ends is not an issue. Instead, it was written for you to approach the story at a different angle. "Man, I wonder what will happen to all these other guys like Waver, Rider and Kariya because I know that dick Kotomine and GIl live."
Meanwhile, FSN is strung along by huge mysteries over the course of the story, which are casually dropped on you in literally the first 20 minutes of FZ.
>Ilya being a homunculus
>Saber's being King Arthur
Probably more I'm forgetting, but you get the point. FSN is driven by Shirou's perspective. You are not supposed to know anything about the backstory until he learns about it.
Literally non-pornographic release targeted at teenagers.
F/Z was supposed to have a rape scene as well, but it was censored just like F/SN's rereleases.
>This good goy who actually thinks Nasu's maximum jewing `normalfag-pandering-release-while-still-trying-to-have-his-cake-and-eat-it-too` means the original wasn't a shitty otaku eroge
Newsflash : Nasu is the biggest fucking Jew in Japan. There's a reason you don't know who he is.
There's a reason he jews out his creation for other people to do the work while he collects $
There's a reason he's trying to make the marvel of Japan
I just finished reading the Iliad. Other favorite fiction readings is Romance of the Three Kingdoms, 120 days of Sodom, Lolita, Monte Cristo and the Genius and the Goddess to name a few.
That picture is poor. How is Kayneth supposed to reinforce the foundations of a building so that it can't be blown up with explosives? When he found the claymore mines he stopped expecting a traditional magus battle, he has lines of dialogue reflecting such. The first time he got shot it WAS because he wasn't using enough power. The only one there that works is the mail one, and only if he wasn't trying to do that to be discreet over keeping the artifact under heavy guard.
>Most people on this board either lurks or posts on some small reddit boards.
Dear god, I hope not.
To this day I've still never so much as opened a page from there because of everything we say about it.
>fate posters are responsible for cuckold becoming common
No that was still /tv/ crossboarders, it just got adapted into Fate because someone noticed that Arthur was in fact cuckolded.
I'm serious, to this day I've never stepped foot there. I wouldn't even know what their post format looks like if people on 4chan didn't like screencapping shit from there. This is the only site I go to anymore, aside from looking up shit on Akurasu for SRW.
I don't. My brother works in computer security so he handles those things.
I remember the butthurt autist who spammed fate threads so they can be banned on /a/
>Why would you say you hope noone goes there if you don't know what it's like?
Because of the reputation it has here.
Yeah yeah I know
>believing what 4chan says
But I have noticed that the style of posting did change a bit around the time people starting accusing others of being from reddit and that they should go back then.
SRS, albeit I don't agree with some of their stances, shitposts as a way of mocking extreme remarks. Granted, sometimes they target people who make sensible statements but sometimes they're shitposting is needed to counter other shitposting/very dumb remarks.
Menrights is not as bad as SRS. It tries to be serious but they do whine a lot.
Neogaf is far worse.
The mods are pedophiles who ban anything loli related. It's a site with quite a high hypocrisy.
>>But I have noticed that the style of posting did change a bit around the time people starting accusing others of being from reddit and that they should go back then.
You mean, just like literally every single other summer? Eternal summer, etc.
>but sometimes they're shitposting is needed to counter other shitposting/very dumb remarks.
No, this ruins the internet.
>Menrights is not as bad as SRS
True, I was just listing off everything I could think of to be impartial.
>Reddit using normies are a prominent amount of /a/ users now
I BET YOU FUCKERS STREAM ON CRUNCHYROLL TOO
>You mean, just like literally every single other summer?
No, shitposting used to be just the normal kind of bad, but this site is becoming like a single all-powerful Clawshrimpy (an unbelievably annoying tripfag from /m/ that literally everyone hates and he kept getting banned until he finally went away)
No. I wait for good fansubs (not horriblesubs) and I'm power user on animebytes.
Yes, I do lurk reddit occasionally. I rarely post there though.
They probably stole that from 4channers.
>They probably stole that from 4channers.
Nope. If anywhere, SA. Don't pretend like raiding is some magical 4chan thing.
>good fansubs (not horriblesubs)
I basically think that "good fansubs" don't even exist anymore. They did before fansubbing was prolific (think hardware fansubbing), and then they did again in a short period before CR took over, but not now.