>Sato talked extensively about the influence of the moe movement on recent anime series. Moe, or "cute" culture, examines ideas about art, feminity, and thematic complexity vs aesthetic and design. Space Dandy draws influence from the energy and debate around moe culture, and the idea that "maybe you don't even need a story" to have a story.
>"We thought of Space Dandy as a kind of counter-approach to this overall trend," Sato said, citing the popular Puella Madoka Magica as an example of a moe-inspired anime that went deeper but was kinda heavy.
>"We thought about making Space Dandy with a kind of strong story that makes series like Space Dandy and Kill La Kill stand out so much. We wanted a counter-idea that was more focused on comedy."
>Commenting tacitly on Kill La Kill's fanservice-laden scantily clad female characters, Sato also joked that they also wanted to head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs," by way of commenting on the expansion of moe culture's ideas about what could be cute and interesting.
>Space Dandy also encompasses a deep respect for '80s culture, Sato said, noting the series' affection for early technological gadgetry that seems amusingly outdated by today's standards. He also noted that Kill La Kill likewise references '70s culture and early shoujo manga and anime.
> "I also feel that there's a real movement right now, a real popularity in looking back at the Golden Age of anime in the '70s and '80s and thinking about how that style can be incorporated into new anime."
>Sato said that one aspect of that nostalgia dealt with convergence culture and collaborative fandom. He cited the explosion of interest in Attack on Titan as a "return to interest in the Big Riddle, or the Big Question," another theme of Golden Age anime.
>> "I also feel that there's a real movement right now, a real popularity in looking back at the Golden Age of anime in the '70s and '80s and thinking about how that style can be incorporated into new anime."
That's why space dandy was so popular in japan
I disagree that it's "dying" per say.
I'd say more the over-saturation in the current TV market is making only 10 out of 1000 moe shows profitable due to competition and weeding lower studios out.
From this I could see studios want to venture into new genres and take ideas from other mediums in order to make a more interesting product that will appeal to the Japanese market.
Space Dandy was not made for the Japanese however, it was made for the West so that's not a fair example to use, however I feel like we are in a way going back to making more diverse anime and bringing back 90s sci-fi as well as strengthening the SoL genre.
Moe means too many things to different people, We'll never know if its alive or dead.
Now that is some funny ass shit.
I suppose when you are a filthy westaboo and consider the western market of any importance or relevance to the anime market this is what you actually believe.
>I'd say more the over-saturation in the current TV market is making only 10 out of 1000 moe shows profitable due to competition and weeding lower studios out.
We don't know that.
>Space Dandy: 1k
And this guy matters?
>HAHA, moe is over! It's totally done you guys! Finished!
>Not that moe is gone, why don't you try my mature show for mature audiences, Space Dandy!
>...please for the love of god, someone give a shit about my show. You remember Cowboy Bebop right? It's just like that I swear, please buy the BDs.
Honestly don't think it leaning one way or the other. Personally don't favor one genre over another and tend to enjoy most things including dandy and klk. Sure the west probably enjoys more dandy styled things over something like yuru yuri but its always been that way.
Thank you based Sato-san for saving all of anime from the moe-trash.
>writes a shitty not-cowboy bebop show
>seems to be completely unaware of 萌え in manga and anime
>wants to move away from DFL
What a fucking faggot. Hope he dies of bowel cancer.
>The MOE trend is over
Again? This fag doesn't even understand moé
OFFICIAL AND OBJECTIVE BEST AND WORST AOTS of 2014
Spring: Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka?
Fall: Yama no Susume
Worst AOTS of 2014:
Winter: Space Dandy
Spring: Ping Pong
Fall: Sword Art Online
Just to clarify, this guy wrote 4 episodes of Space Dandy.
Space Dandy is a fantastic show where creative freedom is given to the staff of each episode with a lot of guest directors and writers. It's not a show where you'll like every episode, as a result.
Gen Urobuchi 'There was no moe in the 80s.'
>TP: You’re known for “darker” stories. What compels you to explore thus? What message are you hoping to convey?
>GU: I got into anime during the 80s. Back then, there was no moe. Just about everything was “dark”. I am just trying to bring old sense into new styles.
>Spring: Ping Pong
This is probably bait but it's true. It looks like horse shit. People cry "muh artstyle" or how the story is what matters but aesthetic is important in a visual medium, if it looks like shit it's likely shit at it's core.
What a worthless post.
Where shows like Galaxy Express 999, Yamato, and Gundam 0079 cute and family friendly?
Because those are of the most culturally important shows Japan has produced for their country.
Ping Pong's abortion of a visual style does, indeed, make it automatically shit despite any of its other possible good points. The number one rule of art is to not show contempt for your audience, and Ping Pong's art style shows contempt for its audience.
>but it's an adaptation of the manga's style
Choosing to adapt the manga's abortion of a visual style shows contempt for the anime's audience.
What a surprise, all these bad writers have no idea what they're talking about.
So much cancer, it's like you people don't even know what's the point of the medium.
One could obviously say that at its simplest, the point of anime is entertainment, but if one goes just a little deeper than that, it's about making the viewer feel things.
Ping Pong's visual style made me feel like throwing up for 24 minutes per episode.
>/a/ thinking they know better than a guy who works in the industry himself
Pathetic. Just, pathetic.
Holy shit now that I think of it even NGE had a dig at moe in episode 26 with rei running with toast in her mouth,hah well thanks anon you've made me REALLY FUCKING DEPRESSED THAT THIS WONT GO AWAY.
The entire point of anime is to sell a product, LN adaptations are big 25 minute commercials, kids shows are 25 minute commercials for toys, etc.
Are you so retarded as to think people fund tens of thousands of dollars for anything else?
But it does, you notice he's not saying that moe isn't popular or what people want. Just not what he personally wants to make, I love how people always try to spin this into something it's not. He knows his place unlike the writer of space dandy.
>Away from "flat-chested" and toward "big boobs."
I like a good mix between "moe" and not. My brain feels fried if I watch only SoLs so I like to balance it out with shows from other genres.
It's clear that the industry knows where the money is at (moe), but as long as they still make other shit I don't see it as a major problem yet.
>That isn't /a/
He's kinda right though. Watching the most popular seasonal show and disregarding everything else is a very /a/ thing to do. I think that's why alot of people love this place.
Moeshit that is just for the sake of being cute without any other actual depth to it is garbage and I don't see how anyone could defend trash like that. Shows with cute girls that have good characterization, intelligent themes, etc are another history. Please try to make this distinction more often, /a/.
Urobutcher is a chuuni who wrote a fanfiction of Equilibrium and his writing style has not progressed since then. Taking advice on cultural trends from him is like taking advice from someone on Deviantart.
I hope you're not implying that Joshiraku is one of those shows.
The "Whale" business model probably explains why hackneyed moeshit keeps getting made despite it's decline over recent years.
Moe is lazy cookie cutter model for making characters.
>inb4 South Sark
I use it because everyone probably has seen the EP but it's core idea has been around for centuries.
I used to tend bar at a busy high end club and 60%-75% of my tips for the night always came from less than -5 people out of the 50+ people I served that night.
It should've been plural in my first post, showSSS.
But yeah, that's still what /a/ is for: talking about stuff that's currently airing. Most people here also got into anime only a few years ago and have zero interest in ever going back (especially not 30~ years like the OP was talking about) when there's a crapton of new stuff coming out all the time.
'I don't see any passion in today's anime industry' says OreImo director
>Q: Any techniques you used back in the 90s that you feel is kind of a lost art nowadays?
>Definitely cel shading in regards to techniques. Back in the 90s what he kind of misses nowadays is the passion level of people working on key animation. ‘I LOVE DRAWING’ used to resonate every moment of the day. He doesn’t see that passion anymore and people are more quiet and reserved; the level of energy isn’t the same anymore. He hopes he can see a resurgence of that.
Reads like marketing, like he's trying to coattail dandy on KlK, and appeal to the anti-moe /v/tard demographic.
I like the way he worked in a reference to SnK as well.
I sure hope there's nobody here who thinks that "moeshit" like Aria or Non Non Biyori is the same thing as "moeshit" like A-Channel or, for a truly terrible recent example, Girlfriend (Kari).
'There was a time when people were under the impression that anime is a culture that can gain respect worldwide'
> "The bubble has burst" in Japan for the anime industry, Yamamoto said.He said the reluctance of the anime industry to change its business practices has driven down wages, drained the creative spirit and consequently turned off many fans.
>"It is becoming the norm to order some of our work to anime productions in China and South Korea. Not because we want to suppress our personnel costs, but rather because we are unable to find enough people to work (in Japan)," Yamamoto, 36, said.
>"There was a time when people were under the impression that anime makes money, and that anime is a culture that can gain respect worldwide," Yamamoto said. "But at the same time, the priority has been on quantity."
>Working conditions have remained dire, and the industry has been hit by a chronic shortage of creators.The recession exacerbated the animators' woes as sponsorships have shriveled since around 2007. With television broadcasters cutting their budgets, the anime industry has tried to make up for lost sales through DVD productions. But even that strategy has been undermined by illegal broadcasts on the Internet.
>Another concern for the industry is a possible shrinking fan base. Estimates put the population of die-hard anime fans at around 150,000. But Yamamoto suspects the number now falls short of 100,000. Part of the reason, Yamamoto said, is that producers, including himself, devoted too much of their energies in creating cutesy "moe" (budding)-type characters in hopes of making sure-sell products in an already small market.
>"Although the otaku (geek) market is said to be a robust one, even the otaku are not immune to Japan's economic doldrums," Yamamoto said.
It is just butthurt baka gaijins being upset their western pandering shows like space blandy or diarrhea parade aren't selling. Look at idol and mecha shows like unicorn and LL selling like hotcakes. Then you have pornogatari and its lnshit ilk like sao. Then you have the usual 10k SoL seller like gochiusa. There are plenty of variety for everyone. Maybe the westerner should actually talk with their wallet instead of crying in a Taiwanese cartoons image board.
It's not that people haven't seen the old shows, it's that there's nothing to discuss anymore. Any thread someone makes about an old show is going to be
>What does /a/ think of X
>Why don't they make anime like X anymore
>I just watched X and here's what I think
All of which will just cover the same old tired opinions people talked about when the show came out. When a show is coming out there's at least speculation to be had, it gives threads more life than just discussing the same old show again. Unless you just want a "this show is so good" circlejerk.
Video Games must avoid Anime's mistakes, CyberConnect2 CEO states
>As the conversation turned to anime and manga, Matsuyama revealed that he reads "60 books a month," mentioning Jump and Shingeki no Kyojin, and the quality of Kodansha's publications. When asked about anime's declining popularity in the US, Matsuyama replied:
>"Yeah. That's because it's not as mainstream as it used to be. They're making it for a particular audience. I think that's why. I watch a lot of anime but it's for the techniques, not as entertainment. As a product, I think it's going downhill. The general audience won't find those interesting. It's impossible to figure out what the target audience is for Mawaru Penguindrum. Same goes for Madoka Magica. It's for a very core audience like us, who enjoy them. The video game industry has to make sure they don't make the same mistake."
>Any thread someone makes about an old show is going to be
You missed the vast majority of the content of these threads, which is usually discussion about what girl is best, what girl is shit, and sexualizing all of the girls. Mostly the last one.
>Sato also joked that they also wanted to head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs"
That's literally all fucking moe is.
The golden age is over.
>AUDIENCE: Some people say that the late '70s and early 1980s were sort of a golden age of Japanese animation. And some people say that that golden age is over. What do you think?
>[OKADA]: That period, that golden age you're talking about, is when there were variations--a golden age of variations. And then, for expression of other elements, it's the 1980s. For U.S. science-fiction, the 1950s were the golden age of expression, and setting the stage for that were the 1930s. In the same terms, in anime, the time for time for setting up the variations were the 1970s, and the golden age of expressions and new ideas were the 1980s.
>[HIROAKI INOUE]: First of all, the VHS tape being introduced into households. Before this there were only two ways to watch anime: on TV or in the cinema. But as VHS was introduced and the price of it was lowering, we were able to create animation works for video. Right after VHS, the Laserdisc came out, and fans supporting that helped the OVA to gain its position in the 80s and 90s. There is one other reason: young creators had more ambition to jump over their predecessors. Because the OVA was a new format, it blew up the image [of animation] manufacturers held and they were able to accept that market. Unfortunately, recent creators don’t have the sort of spirit that they had back during the rise of the OVA, so the movement is dying out. And of course, the manufacturers are being more conservative. They’re more reluctant to accept new challenges.
I think it's interesting that /a/, so-called enthusiasts, will claim the exact opposite of what he's saying.
I don't know who's right, but it is curious how the majority of us seem to be against any shift in the current direction of anime.
What's with this self-serving view that anime not geared towards you is bad? Do people honestly think companies focused on making shitty moe cashgrabs are going to somehow make masterpieces once they break the shackles of needing cute girls? Do people honestly think companies that make good moe have a million DEEP DARK ideas about people getting murdered and laughing about it but can't make them because of moe?
>the majority of us seem to be against any shift in the current direction of anime
We're against marketing masquerading as analysis, and the childish "anti-moe" audience that enables it.
Those people in those interviews aren't giving otaku enough credit because they have singlehandedly kept the business afloat. Also, the reason anime doesn't have wider appeal in sales is because discs are priced for enthusiasts only. They should sell them much cheaper to appeal to more people. But they don't own up to it and blame the enthusiasts. Fucking snake tongued.
This is true. I think a lot of these moe shows could have wider appeal if they'd actually fucking try getting more people to like them. There's no reason for the common person to not like Yuru Yuri, or what have you.
It's not even an attempt at a shift. It's an attempt at "breaking down". Their view is that there are too many shows they don't like being made, which is a really negative point rather than saying "I wish they would give such-and-such a shot". They're embarrassed by the concept of moe because they want anime to be the cool hip hobby that fits with the masses, and the masses don't like it. I understand why producers want this because it makes them money, but general people who want it tend to just be chuunis.
Some of what he says is actually intereasting and really on-point.
There's been a big trend with recent anime in looking back on older styles of anime and reincorporating them into modern shows. Not necessarily direct imitation, but also not parody, either. More of a genre-pastiche of the tropes and themes and aesthetic that was iconic to various genres in the past.
I mean you can see this in even minor low-budget shows like twintails, an affectionate homage to older super sentai with its own satirical harem elements mixed in, or even something bigger like Cross Ange, a shameless loveletter to exploitative bishoujo mecha of the 70's and 80's.
It's not necessarily to say that moe is dying, but rather that a new trend has emerged in the way anime is made, just as moe itself is a trend; this trend of looking back and incorporating successful older elements of genre and culture into newer works, adapting ideas and making old new again in a way that's affectionate and respectful of that older style.
I mean, like it or love it, the core of space dandy was essentially just a pig mosaic of 20th century pop scifi slapped together into an episodic picaresque, drawing inspiration from both older anime cliche's (the racing episode) and just the genre in general.
“There isn’t much diversity now,” Anno lamented.
“Today's anime fans and creators are exclusively into anime. In the past, there were people in the industry who wanted to do other things"
>1985 was curiously the same year Yoshiyuki Tomino’s Mobile Suit Z Gundam aired, a series which Hikawa referred to as one where “Tomino was forced to do Gundam again.” The year was in many ways the end and a new beginning for Japanese animation; the end of innocence for an emerging industry.
> “There isn’t much diversity now,” Anno lamented. “Today's anime fans and creators are exclusively into anime. In the past, there were people in the industry who wanted to do other things, couldn’t get any other work except in anime, which was good."
>“Our generation was when anime fans started coming in," he continued. "But even then, we liked other things too, like tokusatsu.”
>Despite his feelings, Anno hoped panels such as these could inspire future generations of animators.
>“It would be hard to make animation like the shows we say today," he said. "I don’t mean to be nostalgic, but I hope what we saw today somehow leads to the future.”
Japan doesn't do nearly enough to make money off anime overseas. The anime companies should be offering professionally subbed, ad-supported live streams of their new episodes, aired online simultaneously with the television airings. IP-based filtering could disallow Japanese viewers to keep the TV stations happy.
Culture of cute is not ingrained in the west. Most normal people would think it is girly and for sissy. K-on was successful because every demographic from kid to adult love it in Japan.
'Otakus takes away the power of anime' says Miyazaki Hayao
>Q: You’ve said that too many young animators are otaku (obsessed fans) who have little real-life experience. All they know is the world of anime.
>A: That trend still exists and it takes away from the power of Japanese animation and manga. It was inevitable, though. I managed to work for 51 years with just paper, pencils and film. My wife told me the other day that I should be thankful for that.’You’re a lucky man,’ she said. My son’s generation and the one coming up after can’t work with just paper and pencils any more so I can’t tell you how that’s going to turn out. I managed to avoid using a computer. I don’t even have a cellphone. I feel lucky I managed to live like that. (laughs)
>I only watch deep and mature anime
>I am actually a fujoshi and shoujo is fine to me
>I am a board crosser
>I watched anime since 1970 and still want anime to come back into that day
"The anime industry is starting to break down" says Hideaki Anno
>“It is not that I necessarily wanted to change the flow of anime, but to really sustain the anime environment, to stop it breaking down, and there is still a lot of work to do. (The industry) is starting to break down somewhat, with a lower number of people working in anime and less money, and we need to prevent the anime world shrinking. The varieties of expression have become narrower, less diverse, closed up in a world called ‘Japanese anime’ and I want to break through that and keep on expanding.”
There's clearly more validity to what's they're saying than just "them" not liking it. Anime was more popular than it is now, so when less people like something what does that tell you? I think it's reasonable to say that a lot of this stuff might actually be low-grade shit after all. Is it? I don't know, but it shouldn't be left out of the conversation.
>However, many studies on happiness and satisfaction with life tend to find that Japanese people average relatively low levels of life satisfaction and happiness when compared with most of the highly developed world; the levels have remained consistent if not declining slightly over the last half century.
As long as this remains the case, "moeshit" will remain a thing. "Moeshit" is just a symptom of the cause explained above. Give people shitty lives and they're gonna want to watch cute kittens playing and cute girls doing cute things.
And homaging past works has always been a thing. It's been a trend because in recent years, the past decade or so, it exploded and become a dominant heme across almost every genre. The whole idea of having several ":cute girls doing cute things" shows every season, some of which are high budget bestsellers, is something pretty unique to the late 2000's and current decade.
It's not that moe didn't exist prior, but it's been a dominant trend recently. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we are certainly seeing the emergence of a new trend as well.
What's always interesting about these things is that the emergence of a new trend doesn't necessarily mean that the old trend disappears. Almost every show nowadays has moe elements in it, and that's also not a bad thing. The industry is learning how to incorporate the positive attributes and appeal of moe into a wider variety of genre and style. This newer trend of nostalgia and homage is almost as thought the industry is relearning how to make plot, setting, narrative and, most importantly, animation-driven projects that reconcile with and incorporate the elements of moe that made it such a driving force in the industry. You're seeing more and more shows where moe and plot, or slice of life and action aren't in competition with one another, but rather work together to create something that works as a whole. I think Yuuki Yuuna is a good recent example of this, but it's certainly not the only one.
'Anime is over saturated' says Yutaka Yamamoto
>#Yamakan thinks the current situation in the industry is imperfect. Many might say anime is rising but it's not improving financially.
>basically anime is over saturated now.
>#Yamakan thinks that anime is still kind of locked in the otaku world, but there are more otaku than before.
>Problem is that there are only extreme winner and loser titles in anime. Winners are praised to the skies and losers are trashed.
'The anime industry is definitely spiraling downward' says OreImo director at FanimeCon 2014
>Q: As someone who’s sort of seen both sides of the process as an animator and director, what’s your opinion of the current state of the anime industry, particularly in regards to the bad working conditions for animators? How can things improve?
>A: I’d say the the anime industry is definitely spiraling downward, and as a genre Japanese animation might disappear. Of course, there’s still directors and senior staff who put in the best effort and quality into making a good anime, but the number of talented animators is dwindling, as less people want to become animators. I desperately want to change this mentality. It seems like more young people want to become idols and voice actors these days. I’ll do whatever I can to change it though.
>Q: What would you say is your biggest disappointment with the anime industry right now?
>A: I’m definitely disappointed with how the overall skill level of key animators is declining.
>Q: Do you think the international demand and interest for anime could inspire more animators to meet that demand?
>A: Just because there’s more fans of anime these days doesn’t necessarily correlate to a better anime industry, with more people willing to pursue a career in animation.
>The general audience won't find those interesting. It's impossible to figure out what the target audience is for Mawaru Penguindrum. Same goes for Madoka Magica. It's for a very core audience like us, who enjoy them. The video game industry has to make sure they don't make the same mistake."
How is this a bad thing?
The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.
The anime industry caters to people who love anime.
I know it used to sell more, that's why I said I see why producers want a change. They want more money. But there's literally no reason for the viewer to want less of the competition unless they're just disgusted by something existing.
Also if they want to open up the audience maybe they should try lowering the cost of merchandise to a wider-audience level.
>The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.
The western video game market, sure, but that has it's own decline.
>I think it's reasonable to say that a lot of this stuff might actually be low-grade shit after all. Is it?
Popularity is no indication of quality. In fact in most cases things that are popular with a general audience are utter mediocrity that needs to please everyone.
"Moe sells, If a show somehow gets branded as being not moe? Good luck making your money back.' says Madhouse president
>Fuuta pinpoints Evangelion as the catalyst for what eventually became the modern industry business model of creating shows that exist as advertisements for their home video release. Eva didn’t just change the perception of anime in the public consciousness, it also sold 1.5 million copies on laserdisc alone, opened the floodgates on shows geared towards otaku, and was instrumental in creating a concept Fuuta refers to as “My Anime”: niche shows with early-morning TV timeslots that shoot to make their money back on home video sales.
>Hiro has to ask: what is moe, exactly? Fuuta answers “there’s no set definition or even accepted premises for what moe is, but that vagueness allows fans to find their own personal definition of moe and go with it.”
>Hiro points out this trend towards a otaku-only subject matter that the fans themselves can’t even define makes anime in general harder to approach and get into, Fuuta points to the industry catch-22: it sells. And if a show somehow gets branded as being not moe? Good luck making your money back.
>>A: I’m definitely disappointed with how the overall skill level of key animators is declining.
This kind of stuff is about the overall demand in the industry. Honestly, the most important thing for anime is the success of Abenomics.
Yeah, honestly, we don't have it as bad as /v/, man. Brown'n'bloom shooters consisting of proceed down cooridoor, take cover, shoot, take cover, repeat, are far more ubiquitous than any anime trope these days.
>The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.
You can only list a handful of prominent examples that actually fall into those groups.
People act like Nintendo and other Japanese companies don't even exist. Whether they sell as much is irrelevant, as the West's trends do not dictate the video game market.
This Dai Sato guy sounds like he's all talk; just like all them other "big names." Once he runs out of money, he'll find a way to cater to the slobbering, big-wallet otaku base once again.
Fuck him AND his ilk. Unless the animu industry stops featuring shounens and shounen leads as SHITS that shouldn't exist, then I won't see any REAL changes any time soon.
'We're in the New Golden Age', says Bahi JD, key animator on Space Dandy and Ping Pong
>"2014-2015 we have lot of interesting anime projects. The generation has slowly started, finally!"
>"Right now anime industry could be in that position where it was in the 80s.Lot of new artists rising up that could define a whole generation"
Western games are more popular than Japanese games nowadays though.
You posted the wrong yuyushiki picture.
Now here's a guy that knows what he's talking about.
The end of 2014 and the beginning of 2015 have been some of the best seasons in years. We've got a huge variety shows, both broad and niche, some of which are completely unique and off-the-wall, trying things that haven't been tried in decades and with a tonne of solid shows overall. We're seeing elements of moe incorporated into shows without dominating them, laving room for plenty of cute things while still having plot and more interesting styles of animation and directing.
We've been getting both quality and diversity and the trend only looks like it's going to continue.
Monster Hunter is repetitive garbage. Dark Souls is a third person perspective action game about beating monsters up which Japan has done millions of. I haven't seen real innovation in Japan in years.
See I figured it was a generational thing. In the 80s you had a lot of big names making their debuts and forming new companies, and I was wondering when we'd get another surge of fresh blood in the industry like that.
Madoka is an extreme example of a show that had a very niche target audience but became a mainstream success due to internet buzz.
Other shows that catered to the same audience (Yuuki Yuuna, Wixoss, Genei wo Kakeru Taiyo) not nearly sold as much as Madoka.
Because Western games are innovative right?
Doesn't this parallel to the anime discussion though?
People want "innovation" in the anime industry but the core audience is satisfied, so they get more of what they want. People want "innovation" in the gaming industry but the core is satisfied so Japan gives them more of what they want.
What's the issue? I love Japanese games because they're not trying to be movies and all this other bullshit. Metal Gear Solid aside, which I still enjoy.
No, I'm happy about those shows getting S2s...
I respect your opinion, but I felt it was an SoL series rivaled in execution only by the absolute finest examples of the genre such as ARIA and Azumanga Daioh.
Japanese games are dying too.
>nobody buys consoles
>nobody plays on PC
>mobile is gradually eating away at handhelds
Shit's dead the moment they figure out how to make an acceptable new MonHun or mainline DQ for phones.
Masaaki Yuasa talks about today industry
>Until a few years ago, I was able to freely create works thanks to producers who trusted me or studios who had a strong foundation, but now we’re in a state where pitches won’t be accepted just thanks to the strong backing of a producer. These days, a proposal won’t make it unless it also makes sponsors feel safe.
>While I’ve personally had confidence in every title I’ve made up to now, I’m a director who makes titles that haven’t brought large profits to sponsors, so they don’t have confidence in me. I think that if I’m able to regain their faith by producing results (profits) with projects that they feel safe about, then I’ll someday be able to once again create the kinds of titles that I’d personally like to make.
>very niche target audience
You don't know what you;re talking about, do you.
During production and the leadup to its airing, it was marketed as a traditional mahou shoujo aimed at the standard audience for the genre. The 'darker' elements were intentionally hidden during the ad campaign and only really came to light during the 3rd episode twist.
Madoka was marketed entirely on its pedigree (shinbo/kajiura/urobuchi) and its actual content was concealed from the public and misrepresented in order to spark controversy, which it succeeded at immensely.
It never had a niche target audience.
So they aren't any different from Japanese games in that respect then.
They are still worse for pandering to the feminist/SJW's though.
>I love Japanese games because they're not trying to be movies
I don't see western games being movies in general - the complete opposite actually, given how many open world sandbox titles there are. Not every western game is Call of Duty.
>>Madoka is an extreme example of a show that had a very niche target audience
Yeah no. It's the second highest selling anime in the last 15 years. That's not a niche show gaining some tread, that's real staying power. The movies also sell very well, so it's not just a fad either. Madoka has a wider appeal than you or that hack are willing to acknowledge.
This is the problem with these big name directors. They think their taste is law, and if they can't understand why people like a show they say it's niche and chalk up its success to a fad or something else that has nothing to do with its quality.
>So they aren't any different from Japanese games in that respect then.
Do they innovate in terms of gameplay though? I don't see very much in that regard.
Japan might do something that is artistically nice to look at, but when it comes to gameplay they often resort to the same patterns. The west is more eager to experiment in that regard, and especially on the PC in terms of complexity far surpassing what Japan has to offer.
>The general audience won't find those interesting.
Fuck the general audience. I don't want my chinese cartoons made to cater to normalfags.
It's really only smaller studios and indie developers that are innovating in the west though. AAA is still just first person military shooters and open world games, for the most part.
>It never had a niche target audience.
Yes it did. Madoka is merely a continuation of a sub-genre of a sub-genre, namely otaku-oriented magical-girls such as Nanoha or Mai-Hime (the former being directed by none other than Shinbou). It was NEVER marketed as a traditional magical-girl, it was scheduled to be broadcasted as a late-night anime.
Also noone knew who the fuck Urobuchi was besides the VN fandom.
Only otaku would recognize names attached to a project and build any expectation from it. Just like how only movie buffs would bother looking up the cast and crew for a new film to get an idea of what to expect. Half the time when I gush about a director's new movie to my family they just go "Oh I think I recognize that name, he did ____ right?"
Even if they know the name it's not anything special to them.
For the general audience, they base their expectations off of trailers and reviews, which are all about content.
>Yeah no. It's the second highest selling anime in the last 15 years.
The sale doesn't prove anything, it's just otaku bought it, not to mention Bakemonogatari sales number is very close to Madoka.
have you check Ghibli anime sale figures or Evangelion rebuild? that's what mainstream.
You go on the street in Japan, and ask them One Peace, SnK, Evangelion or Gundam, they know it, but Madoka is a fade like Haruhi.
It's very famous title in anime fandom but not mainstream.
I don't see Japan being that different though. They might be more interesting to look at, but gameplay wise they've been resorting to similar patterns.
What's so unique about it except for the painting thing? It just adds another means of input to achieve what has been done since the dawn of time: kill monsters. It is innovative, but it doesn't innovate the internal mechanics of gameplay so much.
Once we let Haruhi slide it was made clear that this is just how anime is now. All the common tropes and writing just deep enough to be considered self-aware. Boom, one of the most popular shows of this generation.
Lucky Star and Azumanga Daioh at least had good writing. The minute we let a show get by on it's general concept while displaying the bare minimum of what can be considered passable writing, things were set in stone.
That doesn't mean the industry can't grow out of it. The same happened with mecha, harem, and other subgenres. We'll most likely see a change in the next decade or so. I just wouldn't call it a trend.
You need luck for mainstream market.
They somehow luck into Gundam and Totoro back then and even if they try to create something like them right now, they won't get the same reception.
The west is used to dominating media. American media has a global audience, especially Hollywood. So when foreign shit starts gaining appeal, they try to adapt it. See those popular Japanese horror movies from the 00s that Hollywood shamelessly ripped off: Ring, Grudge, etc. Or the European films based off those popular Norwegian novels, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Hollywood just remakes it for Americans using their own actors and own directors to try and own that popularity, instead of just showing the originals here.
The west does it with TV shows too: The Office, Top Gear, etc. Anything that gets popular on another continent, expect an American studio to remake it for Americans.
Except they can't really do it with anime. Cause the west can't into animation for teenagers and young adults, who are the main consumers of anime among westerners. They can try to imitate the style, as Avatar shows, but they can't imitate the content.
>what is innovative apart from the part that is innovative
Nigger... you just trying to move the goal post at this point. You never mentioned anything about the only way something could be innovative was if the gameplay was completely alien to anything else.
>they base their expectations off of trailers
All of the trailers for madoka presented it as a traditional upbeat and lighthearted mahou shoujo.
Also I don't know who you talk to, but recognizing actors, actresses and directors is common a fuck in the west. Damn near every moralfag knows the names of at least a half dozen big directors.
I think we're reaching a problem with terminology. If we generalize every fan of anime as otaku, otaku ceases to be a niche demographic because you've just generalized the entire target audience of the medium. At that point, claiming something as pandering to otaku is as meaningless as saying a movie panders to people that watch movies.
Not everyone who frequently watches or enthuses anime is an otaku, but anyone who watches or enthuses anime will have some degree of familiarity with its trends, its major, and currently popular industry figures and so on. You don't have to be some trivia expert turbonerd NEET to recognize the name of a popular new figure that's trending in all the magazines thanks to all those popular and successful series they've recently done. It only takes a few successes for everybody who cares to be talking about you, and if you;re going to label 'everybody who cares' as 'otaku', then that's a pretty big fucking market you're pandering to.
>Once we let Haruhi slide it was made clear that this is just how anime is now. All the common tropes and writing just deep enough to be considered self-aware. Boom, one of the most popular shows of this generation.
Dude, you have to realize that the average IQ is 100. Have you ever gotten to know someone that you knew literally had an IQ of around 100? If so, I'm willing to bet you thought that person was a fucking idiot.
Shows which appeal to the lowest common denominator being popular is anything but "new."
Also, 10 out of fucking 10 for implying Haruhi is shit and Lucky Star is good.
>the west can't into animation for teenagers and young adults
Do you think the talent and structure isn't there or simply that no one wants to do it? I mean, we have seen interest in Japanese IP in the west, but not much in the way of animation aimed at teens and young adults.
>not to mention Bakemonogatari sales number is very close to Madoka.
Bakemonogatari is the best selling anime of the last 15 years, it outstrips Madoka.
>The sale doesn't prove anything
It proves that normalfag anime don't have a viable market compared to these "niche" shows with "no target audience".
It shows that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Madoka sold on the misunderstanding that this show was somehow "subverting" the magical-girl genre, which is why so many normalfags who have very sparse memories of old magical-girls jumped in.
Those people didn't bother with other shows that tried to emulate Madoka, that's the very definition of a fad.
Meanwhile those "big names" you loathe about make shos that are still watched and discussed today (in the case of Dai Sato, GiTS SAC, Eureka Seven or Ergo Proxy for example)
Innovation can be graded. There's a difference between allowing the user a different means of input to do what he has been doing since forever and actually changing the internal logic to allow him to do something entirely new.
>Those people didn't bother with other shows that tried to emulate Madoka
Yuuki Yuuna sold exceptionally well for what it was, Wixoss failed because it was mediocre tripe. That sounds more like the audience having standards and distinguishing between a quality imitator and a shitty one to me.
>Damn near every moralfag knows the names of at least a half dozen big directors.
Do you go to college? Or perhaps live in an educated community? Because educated people tend to watch more film. The people around me see maybe 2 new films in a year. Mostly they just rewatch shows on netflix. My brother knows maybe 4 directors by name, but probably could not recognize any of their work by watching it, that's about the amount of recognition you can expect from a general audience.
>Madoka sold on the misunderstanding that this show was somehow "subverting" the magical-girl genre
I don't know if it was so much this as much as simply... once people started calling it "important" that kind of took off as a meme and when it was airing it just seemed like it was THE important anime to be watching at that time... at least after episode three occurred.
>Anime has cute characters
>It's moe shit
>Anime has the protagonist beat a villain by fighting
>It's shounen shit
>Anime has dark themes
>It's edgy shit
>Anime has sad moments
>It's melodramatic shit
>Anime has a plot that can't be understood through face value
>It's pretentious shit
>Cause the west can't into animation for teenagers and young adults, who are the main consumers of anime among westerners
It's not like the west doesn't have adult animation.
It's just that the stuff that would usually be adapted into an anime in Japan becomes a live action TV show or film in the US which is far more lucrative than late night anime and its dependence on BDs and merchandising, and as such has the money to attract bigger talent. Look at the wave of YA literature becoming movie series like Hunger Games. That shit is anime's bread and butter.
It is still innovative regardless of how much you try to tiptoe around the point. You didn't mentioned anything about the internal mechanics of the games themselves in your original post. There was no way I could guess exactly what you were talking about.
>It proves that normalfag anime don't have a viable market compared to these "niche" shows with "no target audience".
When half of a season's shows nowadays sell between 1k and 3k, I don't see it as a viable market either.
>It's not like the west doesn't have adult animation.
All it has is sitcoms and Adult Swim flash garbage. That's the American animation market for adults.
>It's just that the stuff that would usually be adapted into an anime in Japan becomes a live action TV show or film in the US
Yeah no. Not even close.
Nowhere did I say it was a new concept.
>10 out of fucking 10 for implying Haruhi is shit and Lucky Star is good.
Haruhi isn't shit, but it has significantly worse writing than something like Lucky Star. Haruhi replaced good writing with a barely passable storyline and it set the tone for anime after it.
Obviously the business model involves expecting some failures along the way and hoping you create a Monogatari-like cash cow at some point to keep shit afloat during the failures.
This entire thing is cancerous enough, but
>Sato also joked that they also wanted to head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs,"
And this is when you stop taking anything /a/ says at face value.
>let's base the writing around the most intentionally mundane topics we can possibly think of
>this will be totally interesting and totally not boring to even slice of life fans
Lucky Shit's writing may be worse than Glasslip's.
Except we do, look through all the shows in the last 15 years and a lot of moe SoLs are hit and miss and only hit if they market them well.
Only a fraction even make the studio enough money at the end when taxes/salary/other expenses are calculated.
Nigger do you even moe?
Why can't we just have every genre for everyone and be hap-
>head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs,"
Oh shit nigga now its on.
I know the name JJ Abrams because his name was used to market a bunch of big-budget movies I never watched. Now when I see a commercial for something and it says "FROM THE VISIONARY DIRECTOR JJ ABRAMS" I think "Hey I recognize that guy, he's supposed to be really good".
It's the same thing in anime. Brand power doesn't require you to be a trivia geek to recognized. The name "Gen Urobuchi" had been plastered everywhere recently because he was a rising star among nitroplus' writing staff that they were intentionally marketing and upselling as a celebrity, and he had only recently authored an immensely successful light novel series of a massive franchise.
Yuki Kajiura is an iconic name that's been in the industry for years. You;d be hard pressed to be even a casual anime watcher and not have some recognition of the name, simply because she's been around and producing music for so long, particularly the recent KnK movies, which had massive exposure by virtue of being a series of movies with a full theatrical release.
And Shinbo himself is popular and well-known among otaku.
It's a 3-pronged marketing approach, appealing to various groups simultaneously by bringing together figures popular and trendy in the public conscious. In this case vague recognition tends to be just as good, or even possibly better than concrete recognition.
>everything being made isn't breaking 10k sales
>it's not a viable market!
Are you a complete idiot or what? Anime is booming. There are more series being made and more series selling, more money being raked in now, than at any other point in the industry.
Anime production costs are low, which allows many series to be made and put on the market. All it takes is one show to be a hit and they more than recoup their losses on the other shows.
This is the current model for anime, it's about gambling on the fickle public opinion to land a huge hit, and to do that you need to get more shit on the market because you can't always predict what people will go nuts over.
Yet this is a pretty successful way of doing business, considering how everything is growing.
So many retards in this thread. Moe is not dead, and will not die until the market moves on to something else. Whether you think it's good or bad is completely unimportant, because you don't impact the market in any way. Space Dandy didn't sell, and this fag is probably assblasted about it. It's the same mindset fags on /pol/ use.
>I didn't get that job I applied for
>IT'S THE FUCKING MEXICANS
>My shit show didn't sell
>IT'S THE FUCKING MOE
It's the same shit.
>Madoka sold on the misunderstanding that this show was somehow "subverting" the magical-girl genre, which is why so many normalfags who have very sparse memories of old magical-girls jumped in.
I think so too.
I firmly believe that the general public is unable to discern actual quality and they only operate based on what's popular and highly regarded by whom they consider authority. Normalfags have no true appreciation for anything. Anything they enjoy is enjoyed for the purpose of socialising, for the purpose of having party talk, for the purpose of making oneself look cultured, worldly and educated. The aspect of indulging oneself in something for the thing itself - regardless of how society views it - the essence of being an otaku in the Japanese sense, is foreign to the normalfag mind.
Madoka - just like Eva - and to a lesser degree also Bakemonogatari are shows which at their core are very otaku-centric, yet they do so in a slightly quirky manner and thus gain a reputation of being somehow different. Normalfags then jump the train under the premise that it's this "trippy" Japanese shit, which is oh-so-different from the rest, despite the fact that what they're shown heavily resembles what the rest does as well. Someone who hasn't seen the rest couldn't even tell precisely what's done differently, not to mention that they take heavy reference from the reviled rest, often setting themselves apart through literal or figurative reference of them, even paying homage. Someone who comes in from the outside, who's not a fan of anime would miss so much that it gets to the point where the difference becomes less pronounced.
The worst thing about cute girls shows is that great shows like Yuyushiki, Love Lab, and GJ-bu sold mediocrely while bland garbage like Gochiusa and Kirino Mosaic sold extremely well because of pedophiles.
Why is there so much quoting in this thread? Just post the fucking source materials so we can read them for ourselves.
And moe is certainly not seeing any decline, you can watch as little as two random airing series right now to see this.
I don't have the source material in front of me, but without it, no one can rule out the fact that this is simply a classical example of "historical error", particularly "history as a tradition", as explained by Alan Megill in his book, "Historical Knowledge, Historical Error: A Contemporary Guide to Practice." "History as tradition" is the concentration on the promotion of one's specific group or outlook.
In other words, these people who say that moe is on a decline may simply be promoting their own agenda to boost attention towards their own non-moe products.
Normalfags can't really into Bakemonogatari though. They tend to have one of two responses to it: either they hate (too Japanese, too fanservicey, too otaku), or they try to act like it's some deep masterpiece of meta commentary. Ironically I think the people who hate it understand the show better than the second ground.
It depends on how much value you attribute to that sort of innovation. Is Disgaea innovative for introducing elemental fields to the tactical combat? It is, but I'd argue that such innovation is rather derivative.
Innovation does exist in Japan, I just think it's rare and it rarely touches the essence of gameplay itself. In the west, people are more willing to try new things - mostly in the indie sector of course.
When I think Japanese games, I mostly think JRPGs and games played from third person perspective with action-based combat, and those always tend to be kinda same-ish.
SoL is my favorite genre and I hope you can see me THISing this post because I'm doing it as hard as I can. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that Gochiusa and Kiniro Mosaic are about as formulaic and average, aside from KM's wonderful first and last episodes, as SoL can possibly be. I just get an overwhelming feeling of mediocrity from those shows, again, aside from those two KM episodes, which were very well directed.
My moe sensor is telling me Nanyako is superior moe and echo of certain scene still resonance in my ears.
I'm actually all for the end of moe as the current power, despite liking it as much as any other style, because I know it won't actually die, just stop being the main method of selling a show. He's saying the moe "trend" is over, which isn't the same as moe being over.
>Anime is booming.
What's booming is boring SoL and LNshit flooding the market, doing poorly but just enough to keep the shit going on.
It may be a viable way of doing business but at the expense of quality, an that's what all those rants are about.
You moe-haters have more than enough shows to look for in the future. Prison School is getting an adaption for example.
Stop complaining already. Japan's taste is okay when it comes to these things. Moe stuff gets more sales because it's fans are more obsessive than the fans of non-moe stuff. Plus, the BD's are expensive as fuck, no one wants to waste 200+ dollars on a cartoon.
>implying i don't spend thousands of dollars buying muh BDs every year
Replace K-ON with something truly deserving like Girlfriend (Kari) and I'll be with you on that image. Of course, the trolling value of your image would be largely lost then. I know you put that there first for a reason. K-ON may not have had as much music or plot content as some people may have liked but it was really objectively well-executed as an anime.
These rants mostly emerge when a studio produces something original or risk taking that justifiable fails because it's bad.
They either talk mad shit about the state of the industry prior to release in the hopes that they'll attract people to their 'anime saving masterpiece' a la yamakan, or talk sour grapes about their tripe failing, blaming the state of the industry rather than their own creative failings.
>Galaxy Express 999
All of my WHAT
Show GE999 and it will melt most /a/ pleb's minds. Heck, I still have some episodes written with fire in my mind when I saw them as a kid. Some of them were brutal and merciless. I fucking love GE999, even after all the dead horse beating from Matsumoto, you can call the show what you want, but it is not Family Friendly.
>“There isn’t much diversity now,” Anno lamented.
>“Today's anime fans and creators are exclusively into anime. In the past, there were people in the industry who wanted to do other things"
This could not be truer. Any 80's or 90's anime viewer can remember the artistic diversity and exploration. Just for instance, we had things like Robot Carnival or Memories. Today we cant even dream of that. Closest thing were Anime Mirai and that was thanks to the goverment.
Thanks to anime mirai we have Death Parade, it shows that some people in anime wants to do other things still.
A major problem in /a/ its that most people thinks that just because you have a 100 flavors ice cream shop, every single one deserves to be tasted, Having 100 shitty options is not better than having 50 or 40 high quality ones.
And for the plebs sayiong that muh design is everything, just look at the average animation quality. Jesus guys, even the average 90's show have better animation quality
>anyone who doesnt enjoy the same thing i do is from another board/site
>b-but /a/ is not a hivemind
its not. you faggots should accept that everyone has different tastes and that my tastes>your tastes
No, because Silver Link is also on the left and KyoAni is also on the right. Also, Silver Link could not have nailed Non Non Biyori any more perfectly than they did. They may be hit and miss as a studio, but they have it in them to absolutely nail an adaptation 100%.
moe-haters have plenty of reasons to complain; money isn't fucking infinite you retard, if money goes into one genre of anime production more than another, that genre will see products that are of higher quality than other products, leaving other producers in the dust scrounging money for their own products.
however, these complainers can't be respected if they aren't putting money into the products they like, e.g. buying BDs, DVDs and merch.
Well, calling you a moeshitter and telling you to kill yourself makes sense since he doesnt like you so he's trying to offend you and you enjoy Sol, a genre characterized by "moe".
On your side of this """"discussion"""", you keep telling him to go back to /v/, which is just plain projecting.
>As long as this remains the case, "moeshit" will remain a thing. "Moeshit" is just a symptom of the cause explained above. Give people shitty lives and they're gonna want to watch cute kittens playing and cute girls doing cute things.
I think this is increasingly true of both the audience and the creators themselves, unfortunately.
A lot of unhappy animators who grow up viewing the world through a keyhole, using their stunted life experience to create stunted fantasy scenarios. Which is why I guess these worlds feel so natural for us NEETs and Wizards.
Why is that, that you think that people who watch one show dont watch other shows? With the exception of shounen anime, which have people from outside of /a/ come to discuss, there is no way for you to know with certainty.
moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit
>which is just plain projecting
How the fuck is telling someone to fuck off projecting?
Oh my god we have some retards in this thread.
Oh, no, I'm sure you do. And don't get me wrong, that's a sizable investment, but my point is that unless you're moving millions of units at a time, and I really doubt you are, the impact on the industry that a few grand a year makes is pretty minuscule.
I love the use of the expression "Golden Age," here, because anime has always been riding the coattails of other golden ages, like the golden age of Sci-Fi, or Comics.
Considering the small sized forum I frequently visit, there are two kinds of people that hate moe:
2. Newfags which are the vast majority.
Especially when your reply is written butthurt like >>122565695, >>122565722 or >>122565845, you're basically admitting that you're 16 years old who just found anime.
After few months you're either gonna give up on anime after completing 25 whole shows or you accept moe
Actually, there are. Look at those people that spouting "moeshit" term in this thread.
Even you can find that kind of people easier in other boards (e.g. /tv/, /co/, /k/, etc)
Source: My experience from lurking the archives
>Everyone misinterprets/shitposts about what Sato is saying because he's "attacking" moe and listing anime popular within the western anime community in an interview at a western convention
/a/ full of retards as usual
Epic post dude and equally epic reaction image however that still does not remove the fact that someone is retarded enough to use words like projecting without knowing its proper meaning.
In terms of sales he and /a/ are pretty much even, so I don't see why not.
Well supposedly the driving force behind the anime golden age was the rise of the VHS and laserdisc.
I wouldn't really say that anime is 'riding on the coattails' of the scifi genre since it essentially contributed a great deal to that genre with its own scifi works. That's like saying "Greek plays were just riding on the coattails of Tragedy"
I can only have faith in my brothers who actually put money into the industry for products we actually enjoy, (products that aren't generic as fuck and pander to the least common denominator of consumers).
Saekano is actually a well-executed show, though, and it's even self-aware of its own shortcomings. It shouldn't be surprising that it's selling well. Yes, its characters are as cliched of one-dimensional archetypes as possible. That's the point. The show glorifies the tropes of its subject matter.
You've got me interested,
What's an example of an actually good show selling under 4k that provoked someone creatively involved in its production to publicly denounce the state of the industry?
This post will come in handy for future threads, thanks anon.
They still are. This board is currently getting spammed with DBZ shit to death if you haven't noticed it yet.
Plus it's stylistically unique, making the best use of rotoscoping in recent memory and being shot in a style much more akin to japanese cinema than traditional animatography.
>They don't like what I do!
>They must be newfags!
Of course they made lots of good Sci-Fi, that wasn't my point, my point was that they made it following the golden age in the West. It already happened here and they were just catching the tail-end of it. That's not to say anything about the quality.
>Madoka is an extreme example of a show that had a very niche target audience but became a mainstream success due to internet buzz.
>During production and the leadup to its airing, it was marketed as a traditional mahou shoujo aimed at the standard audience for the genre. The 'darker' elements were intentionally hidden during the ad campaign and only really came to light during the 3rd episode twist.
This is the perfect example of the problem. Madoka was new and different, but to get it made they had to be deceptive and hide what it truly was. I'll bet it wasn't just the audience, but the sponsors and C-suite executives were also hoodwinked and had no idea what they greenlit and funded.
It's also a perfect example of how breakthroughs pave a path for uniformity -- so many shows began adding MEGUCA SUFFERING to the formula, specifically due to how well Madoka did in the marketplace.
I'm not >>122565585 if you think I am, and I'm not even a big Saekano fan, but I'm happy you thought my post was genuinely nice. I think Saekano is a genuinely well-executed show.
>but to get it made they had to be deceptive and hide what it truly was
You're missing the point entirely.
It intentionally concealed its nature to spark controversy. It was a marketing ploy, not by the animators or creative directors, but by the bigshot producers.
It had nothing to do with the content of the show itself, it was just a gimmick to get a buzz going. There's no such thing as bad press, and thousands of people going online to react to how shocked they were when a character was brutally decapitated on-screen in their little girl cartoon generates a lot of positive attention.
It was just a means to exploit the graphic nature of the show and add to the shock value. No executives were 'hoodwinked' in order for the series to be created, it was exactly the kind of design-by-committee bullshit that's so common nowadays.
And this is why you all have shit taste!
I loved the drama, it just wasn't moe.
>beginning of the thread was pretty chill
>suddenly plenty of post with ''moeshit'' and ''moefag''
Yeah certainly not the work of a samefagging dumbass.
You really suck at this mate.
>Moe stuff gets more sales
There are so many "moe"-shows that fail horribly in the sales department and just as many non "moe"-shows that succeed, so I wouldn't say that statement is true.
That they were
I love how moetards are the most sensitive and aggressive fags on this board
You can criticise other shows you want, but if you dare to criticise their bland and inoffensive slice of life shows they'll start hurling petty insults and empty buzzwords ar you
>This is the perfect example of the problem. Madoka was new and different, but to get it made they had to be deceptive and hide what it truly was.
Gen Urobutchi had a reputation as a writer prior to Madoka airing (in fact, a lot of the hype both on /a/ and in nipland was due to his involvement), and Shinbo was already a prolific director. Quality of the work aside, it was a safe bet. They didn't have to 'hide' anything (almost) half a decade ago, because everyone had expectations ahead of time and they were very much fulfilled.
>implying this is an excuse to not contain your shit in just one thread
>but the number of talented animators is dwindling, as less people want to become animators.
THATS BECAUSE YOU DONT PAY THEM SHIT AND TREAT THEM LIKE SHIT
S H I T
As an artist i might have considered going that route, but unfortunately, judging from all the things i've heared, it sounds like a fucking joke. Who in their right mind would even consider going down that route with all these rumors about their working conditions?
Especially in japan, where you can just as well go for manga.
citing the popular Puella Madoka Magica as an example of a moe-inspired anime
Why is this nigga making up new ambiguous terms? All the show had that was anything "moe-like" was the characters being a bit young. It's not like they're sitting around eating tea and cake talking about random shit.
>head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs,"
This nigga is full-on retard.
Without reading the thread and responding only to the OP, because there's no way the thread can be anything but shit -
> He cited the explosion of interest in Attack on Titan as a "return to interest in the Big Riddle, or the Big Question," another theme of Golden Age anime.
Moe anime and all the other shit that respectable don't like exists because of people who didn't like the answers to the Big Questions. Big questions fucking suck.
Saekano has high production value with an absence of any real QUALITY in any area of the production, and there is no pair of characters this season with better chemistry/interactions/dialogue than Tomoya and Megumi. Yes, it is a show consisting of generic tropes because it makes a point of glorifying those tropes, but for what it is, everything about it is really well done. Any anime studio would be thrilled to use such a well-executed anime as its business card, as Shirobako put it.
>all those butthurt Narutards crying in this thread
>WAAAH FUCK YOU /a/ MOE IS SHIT /a/ IS SHIT FOR PEDOPHILE WAAAHH MUH POWER LEVEL
This is fucking gold.
He keeps trying so hard, and I laugh with the same intensity.
I remember few weeks ago being thankful for NNB and Yuru Yuri selling well after seeing Gochiusa and KM numbers compared to other moe slice of life anime, but after reading your post I am convinced they sold well solely because it makes pedos hard. Nips really do have the absolute worst taste in everything, fucking hell.
And this thread just goes to show /a/ is just as bad as everywhere else. They try to distinguish themselves from other boards, mainly /v/, when they're exactly the same. It's pathetic.
Anytime new news comes up for something that's popular on a board there will always be multiple threads, especially on fast boards like /a/. Its always been this way and has never changed.
I love fucking Dai Sato cause he calls things as he sees them and is pretty much write. His quotes about how today's fans don't give a fucking about the storytelling and coherent themes of something and only care about jacking it to see character designs is spot on fucking accurate as I'm sure his belief that the industry won't last the decade in its current state one way or another.
>Haruhi isn't shit, but it has significantly worse writing than something like Lucky Star.
this has to be a troll
I love how decent looking Saekano is absolute snorefest and no budget World Break is actually funny and is somehow interesting.
>but then it starts having forced drama and generic awful fanservice.
To be fair, these are also tropes of its primary subject matter.
Give me a break. Are you actually trying to claim that an anime does NOT serve as an anime studio's "business card?" This isn't the case because Shirobako said it is, this is just common fucking sense. I swear you're just shitposting to shitpost.
The only stuff that seems consistently profitable in today's industry is whatever Aniplex is pushing. If you don't have their label on the Blu Ray disc it's pretty much a case of good fucking luck managing even 3K while their shows that don't even have to be good and will easily cross the 6k bar if not better. This is basically forc