I'm guessing tanks win due to their mobility on land.
Mech would be destroyed if it was tipped over; at least in the realm of reality anyway. They weigh too much.
>Stealth bomber >Jet fighter
how does that even work
In terms of mobility - helicopters are better.
In terms of durability - tanks ae better.
The only walkers You'll probably ever see used by the military are ones like BigDog or WildCat. And they will be used stictly for logistics for infantry.
Probably, because with the advancement of military grade servo systems for infantry, those mechies will become obsolete as well.
Mechs that are not exoskeletons but "cockpit with limbs" are shit for urban warfare. Tanks have lower profile and can move through solid wreckage (cars etc) easier than huge bipedal walkers
You are fucking retarded.
They are not "basically" powered armos, they are "basically" supreme gyroscope mechanism with armor and guns. And it will take FUCKING long time to get to the point we could actually make one.
Also you are double fucking retarded if you think they would serve better than tanks in urban warfare. One blow to the leg with any kind of HE weapon would render your precious mini walker useless untill the extraction team arrives.
Mechs are simply so japanese people can have honorable nippon swordfights in settings where they don't make sense, like space or a modern battlefield, as well as letting them stroke their huge cultural boner for robots
they would be useless compared to tanks
What mechfags want: hueg mech 5+ meters tall.
What really happening: tanks getting as low profile as possible and getting unmanned turret because it's most likely target since it's so high above ground.
>The entire arsenal of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles with multiple nuclear warheads targeting highest densely populated urban centers.
Y'all motherfuckers don't know about the Dead Hand.
>It is frequently claimed that Richard Lovell Edgeworth created a caterpillar track. It is true that in 1770 he patented a "machine, that should carry and lay down its own road", but this was Edgeworth's choice of words. His own account in his autobiography is of a horse-drawn wooden carriage on eight retractable legs, capable of lifting itself over high walls.
Imagine, that it somehow could go the other way if tracks for some weird reason weren't invented at all.
then in that world full of mechs someone inverting it, and country producing army of tanks that takes over the world. And then the high schooler Lelouch...
Bullshit won't work because nuclear power makes every better and stronger. Superior nippon steel that has been exposed to radiation and the sciences of thermonuclear fusion will make it stronger then it could even hope to achieve by conventional means.
What's the benefits of having a mech anyway? Balance is a huge problem when it comes to walking robots/vehicles. So why would anyone want to pilot something that could be immobilized if it stepped on a car or giant banana peel?
Not to mention any number of tanks in an equivalent measure of weight to that of a single mech will almost always be superior in firepower. Mechs are literally just expensive weapons platforms that perform poorly in almost every way except punching.
Once war reaches a point where they start using massive starships everything on the ground will be pretty much made redundant because all you would need to do is bombard the planet from orbit or by throwing asteroids at the said planet.. Easy modo war with minimal losses on the winning side.
But it is. You have to design the whole motion of walking. around making sure the center of mass doesn't leave a specified region. That's why it's usually a big deal when a robot like HPR-4 is able to walk, run or copy any other human physical movements. Its doable with today's tech, but it's far from not a big deal.
mechs all the way
step aside tread-based vehicles.
>Majority of mecha in anime are driven by pure fucking magic
>Hurr Durr, muh reality
These are the worst threads, can't you at least keep them in /m/ if you want to fight over trivial shit?
No one of you have idea of how actual war works, battles where modern tanks face each other within 500 meters of distance are rare, tanks are designed to hit targets thousands of meters away and keep the enemy at margin, same with ships and planes, a mecha, if created in this world, would follow suit in that attack style and the idea is not so unpractical because it's big size allows for more potent weaponry and on a higher number, so a mecha would obliterate a tank, but it would be just a tank with multiple legs and whatever extra limbs it need to carry on the porpouse and scenery it was designed to fight on
Legged vehicles are taller than tanks.
Legged vehicles can't deal with recoil as well as tanks. Ergo, legged vehicles can't carry guns as big as tanks can.
Conclusion: mecha < tanks, leave your fantasy gundams in your animes.
these are the same people who you take to pacific rim and complain every 15 seconds that something violate the laws of x and y, and that z would be too heavy for t, and that q cannot work because of h
jesus, fuck these people. insufferably autistic.
>most benefits being in a human form brings.
But the human form doesn't come with any particular benefits for combat.
The human body is built to be capable of a huge array of tasks most of which a military vehicle has no business replicating - like consuming food.
All you faggots conveniently disregard the idea of applying all that spacefuture magitech to tanks. Take all those alloys and servos and controls and use them to deliver fatter payloads with way less attention to such inconveniences as balance and recoil.
The cases that a mech would be better than a tank are so rare that it would be a significant waste of resources to research, develop, maintain, train crew for, and store the mechs. In fact I have significant difficulty thinking of a single case in which a mech would be preferable to a tank.
With bigger size recoil loses it's effect, sturdy and big hind limbs to keep balance and stability, long and not so sturdy frontal limbs to change direction and elevation of the body to allow the mecha shot missiles or give more reach to mortars.
the only reason to have legs rather than tracks is maneuverability over rough terrain. this can usually be side-stepped (pun intended) by strategy and a combination of flying and track vehicles. there really is no need for a big mech
now tracks do have a weakness, they get stuck and need to be cleaned or replaced frequently. perhaps we will see many legs or different wheels replace tracks, but I just can't see how having only 2 legs would be an improvement.
have some googling, free of charge
Moreover, the main armament of the Tiger II was capable of knocking out any Allied tank frontally at ranges exceeding 2.5 kilometres (1.6 mi), beyond the effective range of Allied tank guns
Sorry, I'm no /k/ dork. I just remember reking people with it in Company of Heroes, even at close range.
But now that I actually remember, what about the Crocodile Sherman? Was it flame-throwing the enemy from kilometers away?
me neither man I just typed tiger tank into wikipedia. you seem to know more than me, you're just lazy or you think dumb questions is good conversation.
>remembers thread topic
Does anyone else just really not like mechs but feel like they should? Giant robots fighting sounds great but every mech Anime I watch I give up half way through because I feel like it is total shit. The mech related stuff I liked was Metal Gear Solid.Pacific rim was ok but fell to the same problem like every giant monster movie, fucking human drama.
I know the exact feeling. I love mecha conceptually but almost nothing scratches the itch. Patlabor does a pretty great job, and the recent Knights of Sidonia adaption really nailed the harsh industrial look of the guardians
What if the mecha is intended to fill a different combat niche to a tank? Like, say, fighter aircraft?
A helicopter could do the same job as a TSF, but better.
You pretty much just described Heavy Object.
Where the giant mecha are more like supertanks than Gundams, and are really just a method of weaponizing the apparently astronomical energy output of the magical MHD reactor.
The technologies used in them probably could be scaled down and used in less ridiculous weapons platforms, but they wouldn't have the energy input of a miniature sun behind them, so the railguns and the coilguns wouldn't fire as powerfully, the lasers wouldn't be as intense, the plasma guns wouldn't fire as fast, and so on.
The super magical composite armor they use could also be put on tanks and warships, but tanks and warships wouldn't justify the cost of the armor, only the need to protect the magic power plant at all costs would justify it.
The lasers, railguns, plasma guns, onion armor, and all the fancy shit that goes into an Object are just the means to an end, to take the energy produced by the reactor and turn it into a form that will kill people you don't like.
A helicopter is much shorter than a TSF. Thanks to its height of 20m the lowest a TSF could ever possibly hope to go is 20m. A chopper can fly lower than a TSF's 20m. Therefore a chopper can hug the earth and take cover from lasers better than a TSF. For the cost of one TSF you could field a hundred choppers.
I'm aware of their research, and a few other alternative designs. But until that stuff has been peer-reviewed and independent prototypes have been designed and tested I remain sceptical.
Commercial fusion has been 20 years away for the last 50 years.
Download the webbum
Open in MPC-HC
Mechas would probably be completely useless in a real life situation, but I suggest that every army in the world agree on replacing tanks with them just because they're fucking cool.
A mech is a tank OP. It's a tank designed to go over terrain a tank can not go over.
A mech wouldn't be useless, as stated above, giving it legs would allow it to traverse certain types of terrain treads and wheels can have problems on.
I would agree though that as the Militaries of the world transition to Air Superiority and eventually guided laser systems, that tanks/mechs will become rather useless.
In order to power the legs they would probably run out of fuel way faster than a normal tank which would be pretty impractical unless you had a nuclear reactor or some bullshit. Plus I imagine the legs would take damage pretty quickly. Maybe it would work in urban warfare but traditional tanks still are better in wide open spaces.
In any case it seems like the saving grace of the Takemikazuchi is its speed so ideally it would be extremely useful for operations where you go in and get out quickly without sustaining too much damage.
Still if the enemies had any type of homing weapon they could cripple it easily by destroying a leg.
Mechs only make sense for space combat and exploration
Knights of sidonia does mechs really well, with all the material gatering, insanely massive and high speed combat, the clasp formations, their desperate need for acrobatic combat, etc
I agree completely. I love the fact that most of their gardes can't even enter atmosphere or gravity or else they simply collapse.
Of course they have the super-special prototype that can though.
That said the only mecha I can see working are mini-mecha or walkers with high mobility.
Basically the Gekko and Mini-MG from MGS, since they are essentially just armored weapons platforms.
Behold, the world greatest tank.
If it works like the designs in the anime then it fits perfectly with urban warfare with climbing up and over buildings and shit. Normal Tanks just can't match that kind of versatility.
>He doesn't recognize the most iconic scene in all of mecha anime
>tfw I'll never get to pile-bunker niggas with my giant robot
Wouldn't you just want a UAV then? Walkers fill end up just doing the same thing as tanks but worse. Anyway in an urban environment don't you just want an overwhelming force of mechanized infantry? As in grunts+APCs
I think it's funny how in Sidonia they mix one of the most practical weapons (big fucking chunk of the ship accelerated to incredible speed) and impractical (mechs)
Wouldn't the ideal weapon just be successive cluster projectiles attached to engines? They would shred anything in a large area and also not risk any lives
The tanks will win if they have teenage girls in them. Otherwise, its simply a question of armor/artillery. Since you can realistically mount more of that on a tank, the tank would most likely prevail.
Tanks can go fast no problem. Fuck this thread for talking about military applications of something that doesn't exist in any form but experimental while using nothing but conjecture and "I pulled this shit out of my ass" tier arguments.
Ask any engineer or any military advisor- some of you should have a military family member, right?
It's all about job roles, right? Every tool of war has it's purpose, and the 'typical' mecha is enormous. It's profile is just too goddamn large, which makes it a sitting duck for anybody with an RPG or some man portable missle.
Congratulations, you've created a large weapon platform that's entirely too tall, too big, too slow.
Plus, what would a mech's job role be?
You would have to reduce mecha sizes so much to make them more efficient, to maybe 10-12 feet at the TALLEST, and make them essentially infantry heavy weapons support platforms.
All of which would probably be able to be done with quadrupedal mobility and more firing stability.
I mean,at best, we're just getting powered armor for firing support.
Big, bulky powered armor that's immune to conventional ammunition, used for heavy weapons. Tanks are still gonna be too useful for the platform to be replaced.
Because they wanted to experiment with Armored Core. Personally I didn't mind V/VD, as a MP game I think its pretty good.
I do miss FA though. Nothing beats flying around dodging dozens of missiles locked on to you.
One spider tank on a building could probably take out a squad pretty easily. Tanks couldn't shoot them without being on a hill themselves since they would be too high up to aim at. They can also jump so they could easily jump between buildings as well.
Of course this is only going by what was shown in the anime, with real tech it would be a lot harder to implement.
ANIME mecha, are fast and agile.
But not always.
Remember the original Gundam series?
The original Gundam was slow, and so were Zaku's. Physics, man, something so big turning incredibly fast means massive g-force stresses on it's structure from different angles as rapid changes would be ridiculous.
it's strange since they cycle through those mechs every fight. And the mechs themselves are looking stranger and stranger.
I like it since the mechs reflect the speed at which the gauna are also getting stronger. And they all kinda retain the original guardian shape, too.
Wanzers, nigga, 5 meters tall max unless they're physics defying bullshit like the FM4 Gepard series, the Raven series or the T1-Brutal Wolf, usually pretty stocky with as low of a profile a 5 meter tall machine can manage. Ignore mobile weapons like the Zhuk, Bogomol or Kouten-types.
Tanks are useful for smashing through enemy lines to collapse their rear, but you're right we haven't seen clear battle lines since WW2 so they're almost irrelevant.
Assuming though that a conventional war is being waged between two modern nations then they would enjoy the same role they did during WW2. However even back then they still had to work with a group of mechanized infantry to secure the territory, and now we have helicopters and CAS aircraft that make it so a tank is no longer the strongest opponent on the battlefield.
Really though in conventional warfare mechs are worthless becuase of the logistics needed to just get them onto the battlefield would make them impractical.
Okay assuming that a spider tank is somehow circumventing the problem that the cock pit would be like a washing machine and it wouldn't somehow smash through buildings as it it jumped from one to another, what does it bring to the table that a squad of infantry with heavy weaponry doesn't?
>what does it bring to the table that a squad of infantry with heavy weaponry doesn't
Being armoured protecting the occupants inside from normal fire and even some protection from heavy weapons.
And no one mentions Battletech or 40k?
The problem with tanks is that things have changed in world warfare. We're no longer dealing with symmetrical, directly opposed forces and clear cut battle-lines.We're in the age of asymmetrical guerrilla warfare , and tanks arent very useful in those roles.
When we create bipedal/quadrupedal combat drones meant for ground combat we can sacrifice without qualms- we once again seize the initiative.
It's gonna be a fantastic day. They'll be willing to die, and we wont care if they do. It'll be amazing. The only reason enemies stand a chance is because for every ONE soldier we lose, people back home take it very hard, and support for war goes down insanely.
Drones will fix it.
Oh no! They took out Drone #46? Just send out ten more and reinforce that zone.
Do you want to grind in the arena manually? As is early game you can just grind up 500k in the arena after mission 4 and never worry about money for the rest of the game. Same with RP once you first get access to the survival sim. Grinding RP to get my rank 1 hard mode sim gear up to snuff once in Alaska is a pain in the ass.
Really needs the sound
Tw only thin they could do better than anything we have currently is boarding a space faring vessel.
They wouldn't really be a mech at that point though: just a slightly larger than normal Exo skeleton.
I'd rather manually grind to the pain like in FM4 instead to let the AI to take over the controls and do the duelling on the areas for me.
Sometimes a unit simply did shitty things that I would never do.
Even more infuriating that instead of going in for the killing blow, the darn idiot AI goes a couple of tiles close, but never into firing range, only for that Wanzer with the huge-ass minigun I damaged to the point of nearly destroying to roll close and open a hailstorm right into my cockpit.
Meh, I managed to earn 8k per fight in the arena while doing a 2 vs 1 with Walter in rank 4 Frost parts+ rank 4 Raptor machinegun, lategame you have acces to stuff like the Vyzov and the Grapple along with Hard mode Survival sim stuff like the Grille Sechs H, the Zeniths or Desmatz so dying horribly rarely happens anymore in the arena.
The problem with that becomes hat happens when they capture a village.
What do the drones do?
Also, combat AI...grand idea.
We would have to go and make it so people can pilot these things remotely.
Now, the next problem: will said war ever actually end?
I mean, if its two countries against each other, both having these drones, why do you care if the war ends?
People are still going to die in the crossfire. A bomb isn't a precision instrument, and an infantry battalion is easily destroyed by a bomb being dropped on them.
That said, people will simply make airplanes/drones capable of dropping bigger and more destructive bombs.
If the fighting takes to the city, this means that there will be a huge amount of casualties, without anyone ever thinking to surrender because the losses are too heavy.
Wars will simply rage on, and civilians will be hurt as a result.
Humans need to stay in war to keep wars short and semi-clean.
Problem is I did it to earn cash for extra Wanzer customisation.
Problem is that you know what to do in order to earn cash in the arenas. And the AI ain't helping here.
Yeah. Since then I was done playing FM5, but now I'm thinking on going back to it.
Remeber to do all your arena grinding pre-mission 5 and remember to do all your RP grinding once you first get access to the Survial simulator, use Legaia's faq on gamefaqs to check on the extra RP/wanzer parts you can get along with how to recruit Darril, play Hard-Mode and don't abuse the fact that you can upgrade everything to Rank12 because it defeats the point of playing Hard mode.
Shame Launchers as a class are still useless along with low-level Jammers, that's one part of the game they didn't manage to fix.
>I fear that the era of the soulless weapons called mobile dolls, in other words, the era that the Romefeller Foundation is creating, may become an embarassment to the people of the future.
I think that he was talking about it was modern countries going into rural backwaters and fighting militias while extracting oil or some other raw material
In this case though you would just have resources extraction drones with a few combat drones guarding them. Imagine that we didn't even bother invading and instead Exxon just sends in their drone crews after paying off the government
In the case of actual open warfare between two modern military forces then you would probably have mechanized infantry with combat drones supporting them along with the regular assortment of armor/aircraft you would see in a conventional war
Missing Darril and the Vyzov hurt my soul when I played normal mode, you'll also fail to unlock theSchakal, Warlus and Scintilla wanzer lines if you don't know the exact way how to get them.
Yeah. This kind of stuff is actually painful in certain games. Not only in FM.
Infinite Space also has something like that and sweet merciful...some of the things are painful if you miss them (like certain crew members, new stuff for your ships, new ships and so on).
It's as if the creators thought of it as a way for the player to play said games multiple times.
No, don't remind me, there were some things that even after multiple playthorughs you wouldn't get unless you had OCD and the patience of a god.
You wouldn't want legs on a "disposable" combats drone. They're good for rough terrain but also overly expensive, complicated, and slow compared to wheels or treads.
The idea of anti-armor infantry is really really cool and its a damn shame there is so little of it in anime.