I think, looking back at it P3 had better characters but P4 had better character interaction/interactivity. You can't even SL with the guys in the dorm, the girls SL were bland, everyone fucks up in the answer. They don't do much (in comparison) as a group outside Tartarus. They remove some features but overall P4 gameplay is tighter.
>>122688318 >fucks up in the answer Junpei did nothing wrong though.
I think the difference in popularity is in part due to the cast in 4 having generally more mundane and thus relatable problems than that of 3. Probably helps that the tone is generally more playful and energetic in 4 too in both atmosphere and music.
>>122688104 Characters are a lot more memorable and likable. While you get the jive that the Investigator Team are close friends SEES are just a group of individuals who learn to put up with one another without becoming close or even getting to know what another, it feels disconnect with the player. As this anon>>122688318 points out the lack of SL among the cast hurts it and the scripted ones for P3P are terrible. Also Strega were shitty, boring forgettable characters while Adachi was a fucking riot who outshined the cast of P3. And yeah P4 is just an overall better game than P3, it's fun to play and isn't needlessly frustrating or tedious like P3 or the other Persona games some may call it easier but those are the same type of people still wanking off to P2 for 15 years.
Also there's a very nostalgic feeling about the setting which appeals to people who went through high school or grew up in the country which Japan is really big on while P3 has the atypical "modern" setting that isn't nearly as nostalgic or endearing. P4 has it's narrative flaws for one a lot of people seem to think it's tonally inconsistent and that it's more self-fantasy orientated in comparison to P3 (an argument I still fine silly) but it's appeal is obvious and I can see why Atlus pushed it for so long given how much people love it. I hope P5 can strike a balance between P3's narrative and P4's characterization.
Persona 3 was a mess from a storytelling perspective. So much death thrown in your face from the start it loses all impact. It had terrible pacing, 90% of the game is just dicking around with no progression. Everyone's backstories are loaded with as much trauma as possible to make them seem sympathetic, but in reality all it does is come across contrived to anyone older than 16.
Persona 4 was able to communicate tragedy more realistically because the atmosphere of a game was more down to earth, so actual events are more hard-hitting Nanako's kidnapping was more impacting than every single death in 3 combined. The kids in 4 felt like they'd be friends in real life whereas the kids in 3 just seemed like they were comrades. The issues character's dealt with were more nuanced than "my brother/father/sister/mother/family died feel sad for me now pls." 4 also had better dungeon design and music too but I guess that's more subjective.
so basically 4 is more popular than 3 because it's a better game.
>>122689021 >Nanako's kidnapping was more impacting than every single death in 3 combined Too bad she was magically resurrected by the power of friendship and then you kill the final boss (who had nothing to do with a plot) with another power of friendship. There was nothing as hard-hitting in p4 as the ending of p3.
>>122689235 That wasn't even friendship, that was pure determination. >>122689215 >MC's soulless body dragged itself along for a couple more months just so he can fulfill that one promise everyone forgot. >Not hard-hitting. You have no heart.
>>122689298 >That wasn't even friendship >When all seems lost the MC returns to the Velvet Room where Igor reminds him of the power of bonds and all of the MCs friends cheer him on. >The final encounter is everyone cheering for the MC with Shinji's ghost appearing
>>122688104 I actually liked how the cast in P3 slowly came together unlike the guys in P4 who all immediately started sucking the protags dick for no reason and that you could actually be a dick in the Slinks instead of the pretty bland answers you gave in P4.
Still I loved both games for different reasons Let's hope P5 surpass them both
>>122689371 Sure. They weren't sucking his dick for the entire game though like it was it p4. >>122689363 Yeah, that gas station attendant was really important throughout the whole game, not just a secret ending.
>>122689456 When P4 was the newest entry they were milking P3 nonstop. It took almost 5 years before Atlus really started milking P4, and all the early milking was them throwing in P3 content in order to get people to buy in. Then the tables turned and P4 became more popular just because the audience had grown and P4 was the entry people most likely played.
But in 2009 and 2010? Non stop P3 wank. Novels, phone games, P3P hype, comics, figures, the new animated series, etc.
It really wasn't until Golden took off as much as it did that Atlus found out P4 could stand on its own as a property. And while P5 is still new they'll be using P4 as the bank, the same way they used P3.
>>122689638 >They got no opinion of their own, just spouting the same shit some retards spam mindlessly That describes the majority of the discussion that takes place on any board about anything that's more than a few days old.
It really is a noticeable difference. In P4 everyone likes you instantly and everyone is waifuable instantly. In P3 there's Junpei of course, who is buttmad-jealous at you for a significant chunk of the game, but there's also the fact that none of the girls in your team are waifuable until you have maxed out the corresponding stat, and maxing them out takes a lot of time, during which all you get from them is cold shoulder. It's a super clear difference in general attitude.
>>122689698 A lot of people forget a lot of things about the games and end up focusing only on the most blatant repetitive catches. It's why the myth that Nyx is the strongest thing in purseowner persists because "muh death."
>>122689698 You realize that all the stupid enemies and dumb nazi cult NWO mayan space ships plot was nyarlathotep making the case that humanity clings to the stupidest shit rather than critically looking at themselves.
>>122689864 Did you even play the game? Did you somehow miss how the game treated the absurd rumours, gossip and paranoia manifesting in reality and how that tied in with the rest of the story's concepts? Greentexting isn't a terribly convincing argument against a fairly widely observed part of the game's central storytelling.
>>122688318 While I thought the social links in P4 were better overall, I felt that how it handled the main cast was done poorly. Persona 3, as you stated, did not have social links for the guys. The social links for the girls were just romantic subplots. This was a good thing, because it allowed the characters to develop as part of the main story. When people got their upgraded personas, it was a meaningful part of the plotline.
Persona 4 shunted off most of the growth to the social link system, which encountered the typical RPG problem of "we can't presume they did the social link for X, so we'll just pretend it never happened." After you do everyone's character dungeon, their growth as a character is minimal to nonexistent during the remainder of the main story.
>>122690286 Did you read the rest of the sentence? >This was a good thing, because it allowed the characters to develop as part of the main story. Instead laughing at the claim and ignoring the justification provided, could you contend against the whole argument?
>>122690222 >This was a good thing, because it allowed the characters to develop as part of the main story. That doesn't make sense. The SLs are just a means to know who the characters are and why they act the way they do, Kanji's reason why acting like a tough guy because of his father has no connection to the plot of P4 so why does it need to be in the main story? The problem with most of the development in P3 is that they're hamfisted and melodramatic and because none of the cast have any SL there's no reason to actually care about them. One thing the P3 movies did right was handling Ken and Shinji's story which was incredibly badly done in the game to the point that people outright hated Ken for killing Shinji when it wasn't his fault.
>>122690393 >Liz best girl My man >General P4 girls over P3 girls I would accept a chie but really? Rise the idol who retired to your school, Yukiko the last tradition jap beauty Naoto the child detective AND Scrappy Doo herself. You might want to rethink that. I mean honestly. Even if you've waifu'd one of them, just think about it.
>>122690222 > This was a good thing, because it allowed the characters to develop as part of the main story. When people got their upgraded personas, it was a meaningful part of the plotline.
The only character this applies to is Yukari and Aegis because she's they're only one who's ties and motivation are connected to the main plot, the rest really don't even matter hell Fuuka is just there after her dungeon is over.
>>122690476 >when it wasn't his fault. Are you for real. I never hated Ken, in fact I liked the little dude even when I found out he was a vengeance killer but are you seriously suggesting Shinji's death isn't on him. Why? Because Strega did the job. They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Ken and Ken would have done it anyway. This lack of comprehension is why some people like persona 4 better. It's nice and simple for nice and simple people.
>>122690068 To be honest, the english dub wasn't bad. Not as good as the Japanese dub though. Hate Chie's voice new and old. Yukiko dub has improved since the original P4 release iirc. Only thing the dub has over the original is Rise, as I hate Rie Kugimiya for most roles, and Laura Bailey is the best female VA dub in general.
>>122688104 Piss easy combat Bland waifus that you can bend and make them however you want them to be Characters that only live to stroke then player's ego Much lighthearted atmosphere Mary sue protag that solves everyone's problems by just being there Much more anime moments where you spend time doing silly shenanigans with your virtual friends without the plot advancing at all
>>122690476 >and because none of the cast have any SL there's no reason to actually care about them. What? You're going to need to clarify because that's going to be easily misunderstood. You mean that since the characters don't have SLs they don't have adequate opportunity to grow on the player, right?
>>122690713 It's Makoto's fault in the movie this time, His selfishness in hesitating on finishing the boss shadow when he wanted to could of had them arrive in time to save him. You can see it in his face as soon as he sees Shinji bleeding out.
>>122690651 >You're going to need to clarify because that's going to be easily misunderstood. Fine. There is no reason to care about Akihiko or his plight because the game does very little with his character. Shinji dies whatever I guess I get Caesar now. Same thing with Mitsuru. They're the most bland characters because the game does nothing with them or gives you a reason to care about them losing their respective love ones hell the only reason why Akihiko gets any remembrance is because of his English voice actor.
>>122690768 Not saving someone isn't expressly killing someone. Yes Makato could have possibly stopped it but hesitated. Ken killed Shinji. Don't mince around when we both know how it is. As for the movie I'm honestly not sure how I feel about him being implicated in the whole thing.
Yu is such a Mary Sue it's not even funny Everyone praises him and he brings back Nanako from the dead with his friendship powers and kills a god with them too In Ultimax he beats the big bad by rubbing dicks with Adachi and making a sword we don't see
>>122690787 I think they're fine as is but they characters don't grow a lot through the course of the story which is what the problem for some people is. You can argue that "facing your self" is the best development you can give to a character in a story which the P3 cast never actually do but it makes it boring for some since it feels like they finished early on. Perhaps if you gathered the party and each one of them had to face their true selves through the course of the game rather than getting them after you complete their respective dungeons would have been better.
>>122690837 Are you a fucking moron? Ken didn't kill Shinji, Takaya's the one who fucking shot him, Shinji's the one who leap in the way of the second gunshot. Had it just been that one, he likely would of lived. Ken did nothing wrong, Shinji did nothing wrong, It's all Takaya's fault. What IS wrong is that the senpai characters, Mitsuru,Akihiko and him got barely any fucking character or flashbacks or anything besides never translated drama CD's to make you understand why they are the way they are, Makoto,Yukari,Junpei and Aigis are the only characters who we constantly see multiple sides of throughout P3's run and that extends to the arena games.
> 2015 > people still don't understand Izanami's role in the plot of P4 > people still don't understand the trinity of Protag/Adachi/Namatame > people still don't understand the thematic relation of the Persona 4 cast to Protag or how P4 plays out as an alternate ending to the story of Izanagi and Izanami
I bet you don't even understand why Tartarus appears beneath the night sky or why Nyx is on the moon either.
>>122690914 >You can argue that "facing your self" is the best development you can give to a character in a story which the P3 cast never actually do but it makes it boring for some since it feels like they finished early on. Perhaps if you gathered the party and each one of them had to face their true selves through the course of the game rather than getting them after you complete their respective dungeons would have been better.
I agree on this. It very much felt like their character development peaked the instant you got them in your group, and after that it was just the question of whether you waifu them or not.
Maybe it should be that you only get to fight their persona when you max out their social link.
>>122690981 Mitsuru does have some character. She's just too focused on the mission of exterminating the shadows, and her social link comes too late in the game for the player to explore her character.
>>122691230 Yeah, that was bad as well, with how much he wanted to off himself after Shinji was found to be dying and how he was willing to let Takaya shoot him, He should of jumped off moonlight bridge or something.
>>122689748 Why does everyone exaggerate Junpei's jealousy? He acted like that 2 times in the whole year, and he blew up once because he was scared, that's completely normal and he apologizes for all of it, the rest of the time he's a cool guy >gives you free game >is the first guy to talk to the protag >talks to him in a friendly manner >invites him to the movies >is an open guy >shows respect for how hard MC's life is
But of course, everyone ignores all of this because he was jealous a couple of times and that makes his whole character bad
>>122691284 >Naoto >sexism in the workplace The lack of respect she got despite her achievements was less to do with sexism and more to do with how she was a chuuni highshooler who her peers had reason to suspect was backed by her relatives who are successful detectives themselves. Her problem with her appearance was due to the conflict between her appearance and the image of an ideal detective that she had in mind.
>>122691214 Wow you're projecting so fucking hard. How does simply copy and pasting a link to a poll in any way demonstrate being mad or show a necessary amount of effort to be considered a waste of time.
inb4 lmao u mad, this post took less than 1 minute to write retard.
>>122691454 >>122691516 >By that logic Mitsuru is also realistic, >17 year old rich student council president who everyone wants but can't have who runs a company that in control of half of Japan to the point where they get police officers to give weapons to minors. >realistic
>>122691542 What, that's a completely common problem, just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others Having to live up to other people's expectations is also a realistic problem that people in high places have to deal with
>>122691516 >set up a camera That one isn't too far of a stretch considering her entire character is her trying to be an old fashioned detective who solves crimes with wit and the tools at her disposal rather than a security guard who sets up cameras everywhere and just looks at footage to identify the culprit.
What did you guys think of the first P3 movie? Personally I think it was pretty good up until the Fuuka rescue mission. Seemed pretty retarded to have Makoto stay behind when he's like supposed to be the leader and I felt like the fight with the Empress and Emperor had some questionable music choices and the whole thing felt like it went on way too long.
>>122691638 Bullshit, she uses a fucking tracking device on a truck to and she tails Mitsuru and the other shadow ops via tech as well. Persona 4 is badly written just so the assbone plot can take place, just like for some reason in crowed inaba nobody notices that the delievery man is carrying a girl or large teenager like Kanji to his truck. Have you ever lived in a suburb? People spy on each other all the time there!
Well the one thing I appreciated more about P3 was the characters seemed to have their own lives outside of the MC but I can see the appeal of the way P4 handles the group dynamic too. P4 gives you a much bigger impression of friendship and there's more group activities with them. I don't know. The games had different tones to them so I'm not sure it's even right to compare them.
>>122691687 Having to live up to expectations is a common problem, isn't it? Certainly not to the extent shown to be pressuring Mitsuru given her circumstances but the idea of having to satisfy expectations and the pressure it exerts should be pretty relatable to just about anyone.
>>122691753 I liked both of them, the first because of how they showed MC's awakening and the moments Fuuka had The second one because of Shinji and Ken, although the way that they present Aigis is a bit grating
>>122691784 I think it makes sense for the supporting cast in 4 to revolve more around the MC in comparison to 3 since they set out to investigate the murders as a group effort and don't have any private ambitions for doing so like the characters in 3 do. They just thought it was interesting and even share a cool little secret about jumping into televisions. Not to mention they're out in the sticks where there's little to do rather than out in the city where there's plenty of shit to do.
>>122691893 Honestly I was a little disappointed in how they showed Makoto summon his Persona. I remember in the game it almost felt like Thanatos went full Unit-01 on the Shadow but in the movie he just kinda cuts him up.
>>122690222 I agree with this. It was most apparent for some people who have a dedicated resolve in their personality at the end of their SL, which then doesn't translate at all into the main story. Like Yosuke continuing to be assblasted about Saki's death, or Kanji continuing to get flustered every time someone brings up his hobbies.
>>122692103 Considering most people who play P3 are NEETs and aren't in highschool? At least P4 has a SL with a character going through entrance exams while in P3 you had some faggot who quit the track team to support his family.
>>122691902 >Yeah maybe back in the 50's when inheritance was a common practice but it's dated nowadays. This isn't necessarily about explicitly obvious and harsh expectations placed on heirs of wealthy families. People place expectations on others and your position in society comes with certain responsibilities that are expected to be maintained. You could be a student flunking out of school while your siblings get scholarships. You could be caught looking at lewd pictures of little girls. People tend to have these worries and are pressured by them, and I'm not sure whether you'd be fortunate not to experience the same.
You must be wilfully ignorant of how people interact with eachother not to be able to empathise to some extent.
>>122692321 >This isn't necessarily about explicitly obvious and harsh expectations placed on heirs of wealthy families Which is why Bill Gates is giving his money to charity when he dies while his children gets a small portion and no company assets?
>>122692218 That was less spectacular than the game equivalent where Orpheus contorts and screams before being torn out from the inside by coffins and shit. Here he kind of just looks like he tried to put his head through the wrong hole on his shirt and got mad.
Bill Gates isn't some asshole from a long line of aristocracy. He knows his children are better off living their own lives and not riding his coattails. He's just some random guy who loved computers growing up, happened to write Windows and then get rich off his ass and all this time he's been trying to spend all his money as wisely as possible.
Compare him to a family that has lived in wealth for generations, who expect every child to live up to their ridiculous standards of life and create their own fortunes. Of course, they also ensure their children are as privileged as possible, actively making people look the other way when they get caught doing drugs or crashing their car while drunk.
This causes a positive feedback loop in the wealthy family's child, teaching him that he is simply better than everyone else because his family is rich. He does not have to obey the law because the law can be broken over their knee with enough money thrown around. Then he grows up, finds some way to scam a small fortune out of people and add it to his family's, and teaches his children the same shit.
>>122692365 What does that have to do with anything? This isn't about actions people take and how they betray expectation but rather the fear and anxiety that comes from having to continue meeting demands. Have you never met anyone who had responsibilities they were struggling to meet? A parent who couldn't help their child through emotional distress? An athlete who messed up in a competition and failed to place? Can you really not empathise with the generic idea of having expectations and being pressured by the difficulty in meeting them? This isn't about inheritance and this isn't about money. This is about interpersonal relationships.
>>122690068 I know I like the dub. >>122690426 That's not a dude. >>122690393 >Elizabest That's something I haven't heard yet. But I like it. Elizabeth has her charms and she has some of the most bizarre dates I've ever seen.
>>122692444 Why is this about money? The anecdote is hardly relevant to begin with. This is about expectations. Rich parents don't automatically expect their children to be successful in any particular way. The circumstance is so vague that it has little to do with the discussion at hand. Can you really not consider that every person harbours expectations everyone else and being aware of this and lacking in confidence can be a contributor to anxiety?
People like Persona 4 because it is a very cozy atmospheric JRPG with a focus on wooing a girl of your choice. Persona 3 on the other hand, is not cozy at all, it's edgy as hell and is comparable to other SMT with it's setting.
>>122692949 I need to identify your point of contention because this entire discussion is so disjointed that it's comedic.
Let's forget Mitsuru's particular case for a second. Some people have expectations to meet. This much you must acknowledge, right? Are you contending the claim that this is a common problem that people tend to be able to relate with to some extent?
>>122694957 >Also at how everyone actually don't like everyone in the group before last battle.
Good point. It's not just about the MC, it's also that Yukari hates Junpei's guts for almost the whole game. There's friction in the group, instead of everyone being in a giant hugpile with MC in the middle.
Junpei doesn't shit on Yukari. Yukari does shit on Junpei. >playfully I never, not even once, got the impression that she didn't mean it 100%. And she's right - Junpei is dumb. He's a practically a special needs kid. But she's the only one who rubs it in his face. She hates him, and if she doesn't, she sure as fuck acts like she does.
Yukari's character is to be the kind of bitch that thinks she's too good for everyone. That comes across perfectly in her line when you offer to walk her home before your Charisma is maxed - "I don't want any rumors to start." And this is your main love interest. The crew in P3 is a lot rougher around the edges than P4's Scooby Gang of Best Friends Forever.
>>122692946 What are you talking about? Persona 3 is cozy as fuck. The setting felt like a place where you can chill and relax with friends. Even Tartarus has so god tier music that you can listen to while exploring the tower and beating shadows.
I wished they had put some of Persona 3's music into the dungeons. It would feel cathartic to beat up the Izanami to the tune of Battle for Everyone's Soul.
>>122695585 Anon, she doesn't mean it like that It's supposed to be playful banter, not a full blown insult Junpei mocks her for her fear if ghosts and she gets angry at him wnd calls him stupei, that doesn't mean they heat each other but they just have fun at each other's expenses and neither of them take it in a serious manner Sure, Yukari is a bitch to a lot of people, but she doesn't call him stupei to make him feel bad
>>122695964 Oh, definitely Someone really needed to stop her and burst her bubble a lo of times Her main stupid acts were going to a punk infested alley at night and cell them stupid and forcing you to take her to the hotel for no reason Which i could tell her to fuck off
>>122696303 Yes, I did Yukari's S.Link. She can be pretty nice and likeable if you give it a chance. Yukari acts like a bitch because she doesn't want to be pitied, or taken advantage of. I think she's afraid of turning out like her mother (which might be ironic if you played the Answer) It explains her character, but doesn't excuse the the shit that she pulls in the Answer, or the Journey.
>>122696729 I can understand where she's coming from, but someone really needs to knock some sense into her, she does reckless shit all the time and everyone else saves her ass and instead of saying sorry or saying thanks she just bitches
I liked it how the movie dealt with the issue most anime MC have, that is, their lives will be shitty again once they save the world. Still cried when he shot Shinji the second time, as I still believed he would live with FeMC's pocket watch.
In the way that P4 was inspired by JoJo pt. 4, P3 was inspired by F/SN. Y/N?
I didn't recognize it at the time, but I think it's pretty obvious. They played F/SN in 2004 and 2 years later they decided to reboot their similar franchise about high schoolers summoning mythological entities. The settings are even pretty similar.
>>122697046 What character did Akihiko lose? In the Journey he was a fight junkie and in the Answer he was going to solve his problem by beating the shit out of the others. Ken lost nothing too, he went with Akihiko. Mitsuru, I donno maybe Yukari is good with her tongue or something.
Combat/Dungeons: P3 > P4 SL and everydayshit P4 > P3
Tartarus was actually enjoyable because of the request shit made it so that it wasn't an endless grind, there was the fatigue system that I think added more realism and strategic depth to the game, you could equip any weapon and the persona and people you put in your party actually mattered.
But the day to day shit when you aren't in Tartarus can get pretty boring and most of the times it's like there's nothing to fucking do. P4 fixed that but they removed a lotof the things that made combat strategic and enjoyable in P3 so it's just a chore to do. And also I think most people would prefer to just to the day to day SOL shit than combat so that played a good part in P4's popularity as well.
Some of the SEES characters have more depth than the P4 cast as well, but that doesn't even matter because you don't get the same "group of friends working together to solve the case" cozy feel like in P4.
The one very thing I hated about P4 was how everyone got their new upgraded Personas through the MC. They didn't develop on there own but relied on the MC's Dick. In P3 all the characters developed on their own without the help of the MC.
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