>>122718227 Just because your rival gets injured, doesn't mean the rivalry ends. Even Monkey got injured but they still viewed each other as rivals. If they didn't have magical powers, they probably would've fought each other with their handicaps.
>>122718367 I guess they eventually went from being rivals in sports to rivals in life philosophy. Pretty sure that, for Kanbaru, it was just like she dropped off the face of the planet though. Probably didn't think about it too much.
She is going to be a sleeper hit character in Monogatari.
When Hanamonogatari later on gets accepted as a great story with just pacing issues, people are going to mention that Numachi was actually a decent one-shot character who gelled well with Kanbaru and brought a lot of melancholy and introspection into Monogatari which the fanservice heavy -monogataris tend to distract people from because of the "wow" visuals.
>>122721547 Were you on the threads during/a couple of weeks after it came out because people were mad. So many people complaining about the slow pacing, how Numachi's speech brought the episode to a halt or how they were falling asleep during it.
I had to watch it a second and third time to truly appreciate it but not everyone will do that, they'll stick with their first impression and they'll remember the drag it was to watch it.
>>122721813 People enjoyed the Kaiki and Araragi without a problem. It was the giant speech in the middle between those two events where you have to hear the life story of someone we've never met before and it just comes in all at once. Also apparently the visuals for that monologue wasn't good. I had no issue with them but I can see when combined with the length of the speech and minimal banter between Kanbaru and Numachi for those scenes, why people would feel the way they do.
The thing with Hana is that it's a slow -monogatari even by Monogatari standards. There's no amazing fights, no particularly outrageous scenes and the fanservice of both sexual and non-sexual nature is pretty non-existent except for the near the start with the bath in the BD and pretty much any scene with Kanbaru at home in both releases.
After having an entire season of scenes like Araragi one-hit killing Kako, an arc with Kiss-shot and Adult Mayoi making a return, Nadeko going crazy and Kaiki screentime (as an example from various arcs), a subdued show like Hanamonogatari greatly contrasts and for some people that can be jarring.
That's why I think it's a sleeper hit. People will come to appreciate what it was trying to achieve and what it did actually achieve.
>>122722004 I personally liked it way more than Tsukimonogatari. I couldn't really stand the sudden doll person I'm suppose to like. The interaction between her and Araragi seemed so off to me.
Numachi was introduced quickly and suddenly, I guess there isn't much flashy stuff going on to keep peoples attention, but the character of Numachi and her back story was interesting because it gave us another look into philosophy about oddities alongside Oshinos.
>>122722231 I liked it more than Tsuki as well but I also liked Tadatsuru more than Numachi. Not to say I dislike Numachi in any way but Tadatsuru just from Yozuru's description of him alone endeared him to me.
It's a shame Numachi only gets one book. Getting a second appearance would really do her character wonders. Seeing a happy Numachi would really make her character more likeable from a non-intellectual sense.
>>122722323 >I would argue that hana is one of the best arcs in terms of tone and structure in the whole series.
Me too. I think it's a wonderful arc. I'm not shit-talking it. I'm just pointing out the flaws like a Devil's Advocate. Even if I personally grew to like it on a re-watch, there are flaws to it that you can see on the first time through.
>>122722004 This post make most points. Numachi is literally brand new char with only Kaiki mentioned her name 1 time. It won't help people to like her when they got her background at once. I really wished she got more screen time before she met Kanbaru or even before Hanamonogatari to make the audience understands her or know her a little bit. The delay didn't help either. Fans really eager to watch new monogatari releases and the expectations were high and the waiting was suffering. High expectation is what make people disappointed by Hanamonogatari.
I actually liked the visuals. You can tell that Shaft really trying hard to keep the people listening her monologue to not get bored by gorgeous backgrounds and visuals, although the opinions on that may vary.
I really like the monologue since I already like Numachi in the first episode. Even if you don't, it is typical Monogatari stories with oddities with lots of backstory being told immediately. So I have no problem with that. It just the story was being told, associated with and in relation with new character everyone has no knowledge of. That's why people who watched it only liked it because of Kanbaru, the yuri theme and Kaiki's beard.
>>122722518 See, from what we can gather from Kaiki and Numachi is that aside from their relationship being mildly conflicting and then sorting out the agreement, Kaiki considers her to at least be "an acquaintance" and Numachi doesn't really trust him so I'd like to see Kaiki's personal narration of Numachi and how it ties back into Hanamonogatari.
>>122722525 Don't forget the Kaiki Stride and the VW beetle.
>>122722735 Within things like the pacing which is brought to a halt by Numachi's monologue or having two characters much more loved than Numachi appear either side of said monologue basically overshadow Numachi's role when people talk about Kaiki or Araragi's scenes as highlights of the story over the main content from the passive-into-aggressive conflict between Kanbaru and Numachi.
Having this new character pop out of nowhere with no chance for reappearance with only a single mention in Koi and a single mention in Bake as foreshadowing that we've got to try care about while she takes up screentime from Kanbaru (Which works in consequent rewatches but if you're going in blind can be very jarring).
Things like that which the other arcs during S2 didn't really suffer from.
>>122722525 You may have thought that they were pretty, but the visuals during Numachi's monologue just didn't do the job they needed to keep engagement up during a dry speech. Whatever you may think of Tsuki as a whole, you have to admit that Yotsugi and Shinobu playing in the snow with super powers was a much more engaging background to that arc's relatively slow-paced discussion.
>>122723187 For the conversation with Numachi, there was nobody else there to do anything fun and it did end up being pretty dry. I'm sure Shaft didn't want anything super-exciting to happen either, since Numachi's supposed to be such a static personality.
It's kind of interesting that Kanbaru meets and talks to lots of people throughout the arc (Tooe, Ougi, Higasa, Numachi, Kaiki, Karen, and Araragi), but ultimately she's on her own for making decisions and there's a lot more focus on her monologue than RRRG's arcs. The whole thing feels kind of lonely.
>>122722923 Pacing seems ok to me. From the start Kanbaru has already feel hostile to Numachi. Then from Kanbaru's distrust to Kaiki to Kanbaru demands as returning the arm with threat. Numachi's monologue serves as slowing down the pace with Kanbaru actually understand her reasoning but can't agree with it thus make her deep in thought. After she collected her thought, she confronts Numachi once again this time to settle her belief on Numachi.
Although I agree, Numachi as new character doesn't help the setting to be more sympathetic to her. This is why we really need her early appearances so we can actually connect with her character. Also I hate stand alone story when it involves a new charcter to be dig out this deep. Maybe more like in Tsuki where the only purpose of new char is to be a puppet and die immediately.
>>122723187 It's really objective about visuals. I don't really immersed that much in Tsuki background as it just idle activities that has no means to story. While in Hana, Shaft really exaggerates the background so the audience would pay more attention to her story.
>>122723610 In particular I thought the water that comes out during their last game was really well-done. Seems like Kanbaru and Tooe and water go hand in hand.
You're underselling the background in Tsuki a little bit, I think. There's the game room with all the moving layers of color, the part with Ougi and all the dead trees around her, the huge ice castle that collapses as Araragi is talking about how shit's going wrong around him, etc.
>>122723610 That's the thing, the pacing is actually alright but it's so jarring on a first watch that it fucks with you a bit. Once you know what's coming, you come to appreciate just what's happening and you can lose yourself within what's being said. The lack of outstanding visuals and excitement really makes the actual content of the dialogue shine.
>>122723692 Sorry, the only background I can remember is when Yotsugi and Shinobu playing and Ougi's dead trees. I don't recall anything extraordinary beside the reflection of the light on ice which is beautiful, even more in BD.
>>122723733 Yeah, I already liked and biased for Numachi the first few minutes she appeared. So anything what she said can easily be understood for me. I admit I needed to pause some, though. Also her voice is great too, since I also liked her VA.
>>122723784 Yeah man. The first watch was hard for me. I'm a monkeyfag but damn, Hanamonogatari really isn't that heavy on Kanbaru when you get down to it.
Not directly anyway. It isn't 5 episodes of Kanbaru talking, it's 3 episodes of other people talking TO her and you learning a shit ton about Kanbaru, her character, motivations and everything in between when you start piecing all the information together and what relates to Kanbaru personally, in the meta-context of her character and just in general.
It's a lot of information to take in and that can make it hard to digest.
>>122723954 Yeah, I can't read moon but the first few chapters of Hana are translated. Remember how there's a long intro in Tsuki where Araragi gives his thoughts on Yotsugi? Well, there's something similar in Hana which is Kanbaru monologuing about herself. I wish they had included this instead of flashing a paraphrased text version before the water scene with Tooe.
She says things like: >Until now I have disliked many people, and hated many others -- as a matter of fact, I don't even know if I could publicly declare that in this world somebody whom I have never hated exists.
>I detached my own dark side, as if it were a separate entity -- but in the end I just turned myself into the devil. >Back then, I discovered the devil inside myself, and I raised it -- just that. It was just that, so I believe that, more or less, that's what people do. >This certainly doesn't mean that my sins will become lighter -- and in no way I am even thinking of dodging my responsibilities. >Still, I wonder. >How in the world do people do it?
>First time Kanbaru talks to Numachi they discuss problems being solved by time >Kanbaru is being buried alive in sand (sandglass) >After she's completely covered she's shown sinking underwater (suffocation) >random scenery shots are deserts, wasteland, animal carcass, etc
>Second time Kanbaru talks to Numachi they discuss her past >The gym is filled with nooses, with Numachi at the center of them >One shot from Kanbaru's perspective shows her looking at Numachi through one of the nooses >Numachi keeps making incredibly ironic lines about youth, life, and death
>Numachi's old nickname is "Numachi the Poison", because her existence is poisonous to Kanbaru
>After hearing about Numachi's suicide, Kanbaru runs away and lies in the middle of an intersection at night, with no visible lights or stop signs, showing both her being at a crossroads and nearly throwing her life away. (Araragi then finds her, takes her into his car, and drives her down his road rather than the one she was following)
>At the end Araragi says "I would have given up somewhere in the middle" (referencing when he attempted suicide-by-vampire in Kizu)
Hana was probably the best Monogatari by far in terms of themes and subtext. Even SHAFT actually went out of their way to have meaning behind their 2deep4u background shit this time around.
This is why I like Kanbaru. All this good shit right here makes her so underrated.
She's so diametrically opposite even within herself. For every cheerful smile, there's a dark thought. For every compliment about herself, there is a deprecation.
She truly is the best host for the Rainy Devil in that regard. She is a girl who's wishes will always have backsides of the wish for the Devil to grant.
Which combined with the Devil being Tooe's Oddity really makes me wonder why Tooe would give it to her when she knew Kanbaru was going to be weak. She assumed Kanbaru would grow strong of her own accord and she eventually did but it took two wishes on the arm for Kanbaru to come to that conclusion. Did Tooe think Kanbaru would need a wish fulfilled as a way to help her from beyond the grave? That if there was something Kanbaru needed so strongly that she would wish for it, that she would be there to help even at such a cost?
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