Shinobu is a shell of her former self. She coasts along on her previous achievements as Kiss-shot while being undeservedly smug as we see with her current achievements totaling sneak attacking Cat while she was busy, losing to Nadeko, draining someone who isn't resisting (Kiss-shot) and only being able to beat Yotsugi by Yozuru graciously giving Shinobu enough prep time to go Teen Shinobu.
In closing, Yozuru shitting all over Shinobu was completely deserved and Shinobu needs to step up her game as Shinobu Oshino if she wishes to continue being justified in her smugness.
We don't need threads all the time, especially with how often they just degenerate into 'muh best girl > yours," which is a hilariously sophomoric topic. Go watch Infinite Stratos if that's all you can think about.
>>122787571 That is fucking hilarious. It's cool, I don't claim that Shinobu is the alpha-smug of the series, she's cute because her pride and ego are so fragile that she has to put up the smugness as a front. In that sense, Yozuru wins in smugness, but she was still a fucking bitch for stepping on Bat's head.
>>122787847 Stepping on someone's head, even without them initially knowing, is extremely rude. Besides, the apology was intended to provoke Shinobu even further. Yozuru is a meanie. But I'll agree to disagree.
>>122788631 I wasn't part of that discussion but Princess Beauty pretty much straight up tells you Shinobu when she was human was a Mary Sue.
Whether she is now or not is up for debate but Princess Beauty makes it abundantly clear that when you are so beautiful on the outside that people will spend their days just giving you gifts in recognition of your beauty, then you complain you're too beautiful and that you wish people could see the "you on the inside" and you turn out to be even more beautiful to the point people start committing Sudoku to the point foreign countries think you're a mass murdering bitch who sends armies to kill you only for them to also commit Sudoku.
That is the epitome of Mary Sue. Though like I said, whether it applies now or not is up for discussion.
>>122788801 What an awesome story Princess Beauty is. Some people hate it because it makes no sense but I think it's great because it's like a bizarre fairy tale with no moral except that being perfect just ruins everyone else.
>>122790814 Yeah, if anything Nisio has a chip on his shoulder for Mary Sues/perfect characters because all of his suffer so much.
I don't think it makes Shinobu worse because it has nothing to do with who she is throughout any of monogatari. It just gives some motivation as to why she's so pure for a vampire and why she is depressed enough to attempt suicide.
So I don't think it makes her better but I don't think it makes her worse either. He does say at the beginning: >I want the listener to think of it as nothing more than a fictitious tale. As to why, it is because this is an old story that lacks any taste of reality along with any message or salvation. Such a story is better off being treated as a lie.
>>122791643 Nah, I agree with you on the whole. Hanekawa was a pretty unique version of his Mary Sue character type and there wasn't any need to bring another one in, even as a backstory.
Now that I think about it, he could have given Shinobu a backstory based off some other idea instead of rehashing one that he likes.
I think part of the reason he went with this is that it kind of makes sense as a transition toward her existence as a kaii. Many stories about somebody who massacred tons of people evolve into vampire stories (e.g. Bathory, Vlad). Kissshot's story is like their's except without ill intentions on her part.
NisiO sorta wrote himself into a corner with Shinobu. He tries to make her relatively pure but then sorta forgets she's a vampire and needs to fuck shit up as part of people's belief in her being a Vampire.
PB basically just said "She did kill a bunch of people but it wasn't her fault" which just smacks of him trying either too hard to keep her pure, or not hard enough and he couldn't think of a better option.
>>122793267 RNG could for all intents and purposes just be talking about how her eyes look glazed over because she's suicidally depressed > depressed > a bit upset but on the road to reconciliation. Depending on when he said the comment.
In Kizu he always mentions her having a cold-ass gaze, so maybe that's what you're referring to. It's probably referring to the fact that she's above humans and doesn't look at them as you would look at equals.
>>122793171 Shinobu can literally herald the apocalypse and the fanbase will give her a pass even though she never actually develops as a character. The only reason the present iteration isn't doing the same shit is because she's babied by Araragi.
But when Nadeko has the same problems but is helped through them and actually grows up a little bit, suddenly she's hated by half of /a/.
Fuck, they shove the parallels between the two in your face when Shinobu confronts Nadeko. It's not 2deep4u. Some anons are literally just too stupid and this irks me.
Best girl wars would actually be fun if they were ironic, but the fact is that there are anons here who believe the drivel they spew.
>>122793743 Yeah. He doesn't really bring it up until she regains her full form in Kizu. It's partially why he feels threatened by her when she first gets her full form back, even though she's like "I'm not gonna eat you."
>>122793799 There's some development in Shinobu Mail and Kabuki (which didn't make it into the adaptation very well). And Shinobu is a huge bitch to Nadeko because she recognizes their similarities.
But yeah, the rampant Nadeko hate probably comes from the RRRG self-inserters who can't stand the fact that she tries to kill him and doesn't fall into his lap in the end (i.e. people who completely miss the point of the story).
>>122793914 That's fair enough then. All I remember about the ass end of Kizu is the Oshino conversation about "Are you hungry" and the whole "She's tries to convince you to kill her by saying Hanekawa is a meal." plus ya know...the fight and the aftermath.
>>122789215 It wasn't until she swallowed the talisman that she actually started to interact with the snake. Everything prior was self-deception, so we can assume that she just had the scrunchie lying around in her collection of deliberately unfashionable clothes. [\spoiler]
>>122793944 >does not want to change She literally did. She dropped her dependency, unlike bat, who is literally as volatile and thirsty as ever, and she knows it, that's why Snake pisses her off so badly—she doesn't like the reflection she sees in the mirror. >inb4 Snake didn't change herself, Kaiki did Humans need others, and they need help. This has been a recurring theme in the series, but I'm sure that largely went over your head
>>122794337 >>122794342 Yes she did, >>122788666 is a screenshot from otori not nise. It's when she's questioning the snake god about how to find the body and he's giving her unreasonable demands. What a shock, even her subconscious is abusing her. What a poor girl.
>>122794312 >She dropped her dependency You mean Kaiki made her realize it wasn't worth it because sitting on top of a mountain all day is boring for a child and she never really cared about Araragi in the first place. >unlike bat, who is literally as volatile and thirsty as ever Yeah, I remember when Shinobu ended the world again in Owari after Araragi died again Oh wait, that didn't happen at all She didn't even kill the person who killed him >Humans need others, and they need help Kind of like how Araragi helped Shinobu change so much in their time together she willingly binds herself to him again when they're separated again
>>122794312 >She literally did. She literally did not. Even when confronted with the truth that she's a manipulative little shit who uses her cuteness to avoid responsibility she choose to stay that way.
>>122794678 >does not want to change She literally did.
>Yes she did
So hard to figure out. She never wanted to change herself to be a better person. Kaiki just convinced her that being stuck in a shrine on a mountain is not better than what her life was. She never felt any remorse or regret about what she did.
>>122794766 That's what I mean when I say "should" feel guilty. She doesn't actually feel guilty, and that's clear from her responses: when she first imagines giant kuchinawa she says "what should I do?" instead of "sorry," because she's ready to play the victim but doesn't actually feel remorse.
As far as impossible task goes, I get that it's related to the victim complex but she also had to rationalize it in some way. Obviously, it's actually a subconscious excuse so she can carry out the real mission of reviving the god.
>>122794678 >That's because Nadeko was a fucking god, shinobu is barely a half vampire and even then tried her best to kill her 1. Shinobu could break a man in half, she's still a Kaii. If Araragi had bothered to power her up at all and she took Nadeko seriously they probably would have beat her considering she had no trouble with Yotsugi. 2. "God" is just a title, Kiss-shot could literally crush Medusa with a glance.
>>122787690 I am never able to understand this measurement. 18m is too big, 18 cm is too small, 18" is too small, 18' is too big, and thats her 27 year old body, so the scale can't be based on age either.
Not only that, but the 0 is starting at the top of her feet and her posture is not straight, so it wouldn't be a correct height measurement either way.
>>122794850 Not that anon, but how do you know? You can't claim that she did or didn't feel remorse because she's out of the story before that question is relevant.
Do you think that, after convincing her to change her life, Kaiki should've also said "why don't you feel bad about killing RRRG?" Or that after Kaiki talked to her she should've been like "Oh no, I feel so bad about trying to kill him now." If she does feel remorse, it would have been after the slug wore off and after she started learning something about human empathy. You can't expect it to all happen immediately because she's so emotionally immature.
>>122795003 >Kiss-shot could literally crush Medusa with a glance. >muh power levels This is a series where the supernatural is merely a vehicle for very human themes. If you want chuunishit you might be better off waifuing a Nasu character like Shiki.
>>122795003 >she had no trouble with Yotsugi. After getting a good deal of her power back by sucking RRRG's blood. It's mentioned several times that she's basically a weak kid, but has a big advantage in fighting kaii.
>>122795181 Never thought of that. I read an article somewhere about anime characters having the same height:head size ratio as a baby, resulting in some correlation between anime cuteness comes from baby cuteness. So I guess head size would be a somewhat accurate measurement, albeit there would be no consistency between other persons.
>>122795384 It depends on the character. For example kiss=shot is 9 heads tall which is actually quite a bit taller than the average woman(7-8) which gives her a regal and elegant appearance. While over here we have the adorable monkey at 6 heads tall which makes her look cute and cuddly.
>>122794678 >>And her clothes aren't deliberately unfashionable. >Eh? I thought that was pretty much confirmed in Otori I think this got left out of the anime, but when Tsukihi's suggests her clothing is deliberate, Nadeko's reaction in the narration is that that's not the case.
>>122797072 By that point Kanbaru has slept with both Karen and Tsukihi in the same room because Kanbaru would never do anything to ruin the friendship she has with Araragi. I think both sisters would be equally valid.
Karen mentions in Hanamonogatari that Araragi now does her toe nails and in Tsuki he plays with her foot. I swear their relationship is the infinitely more suspect of the two. Almost as if Yozuru was right and the real has more value.
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