>>123506209 Most of the performances in the dub are top notch (especially Tanabe) but the mixing is significantly lazier, even compromising some of the awesome hard sci-fi details. It does however let you listen to the often extremely detailed background chatter.
>>123506273 Interesting. I was kidding but now I'm considering it. Mixing problems aren't a big deal to me unless they're huge, sci-fi mistakes would burn my ass though. I really need to get around to seeing this.
>>123506318 There's even a scene or two where they inexplicably use a different part of the OST, changing the context of one of them completely. I cannot stress enough how good English Tanabe is though, she's easily on par with nip Tanabe. English Hachi is good but the characterization is ever so slightly off.
>>123509331 Planetes has some gorgeous concept sketches. Tanabe easily has the most, probably because she got the most significant overhaul from the manga and is the protagonist for most of the series.
>>123509847 The character artist clearly had a keen sense of what it means to be cute via personality and attractive design, rather than making her KAWAII UGUU~~ and calling it a day. >>123510018 It's an omnibus of the whole thing and expected for late December. It's strange that it's getting a new release at all, it's highly acclaimed but not exactly a big seller. Hell, maybe renewed interest in the IP could mean a western BD release if we're all good boys and pay for it.
>>123510330 That's a great point. Planetes did things that only animation realistically could. I don't think I've ever seen animation's ability to integrate elements like that used to make things more realistic rather than less before, though. Kind of reminds me of how Oshii shot anime.
>people say this is a great show >just finished it yesterday first half is completely bad up until the el tanikan episode, which handles itself fine, but every sort of "theme" or issue they wish to deal with is hamfisted, and not just because of how tanabe's character is. the episodic first half also is a terrible structure at character development, even though it was definitely used to benefit the second half by remembering how those characters grew in those respective episodic elements. that doesn't forgive the nature of the fact that the early episodic episodes were terrible.
right when PTSD hits, i think the show becomes pretty great, and i overall loved how hachimaki's character arc was handled, but i felt like tanabe's character never really grew, or that she ever really felt like a "primary" character. she simply felt like a female who was subjected to be second to hachimaki, which is really uninteresting. also, i hate how issues are solved with 2-3 minute segments at a time. hachimaki about drowns and then realizes he's an asshole. great plot device. ai tanabe then falls in love with him again because she has no personality. great ending.
>>123511502 Were any of the issues actually solved, though? They're dealt with, but none of the underlying issues ever get solved. They're just a couple insignificant people in a world far bigger than them.
>>123511502 >first half bad Entirely subjective. A majority believe it to be "very good" to "excellent" so you're the odd one out.
There are a couple of minor pacing issues, but everything pre-von-braun is worldbuilding and character introduction/building. It's meant to be slow.
And the entire point of Tanabe as a character was that even though she had a bunch of experiences that conflicted with her worldview, she maintained it to the extent of allowing herself to die so someone else could live even just a few minutes longer. That shit's pretty powerful when you stop to think about it.
I do wish they'd animated part of the Von Braun's journey since that was great in the manga.
>>123511551 i listed exact things from the show and then my issues with them. there were just too many writing problems that keeps it from being a phenomenal show.
also, the writing devices that keeps hachimaki from killing hakim and ai tanabe from stealing oxygen are really bad and them doing those respective things would have made for a much more emotionally impacting ending. the ending feels like a bunch of writers got together and said "how do we please the viewers?" "make everyone in love." "great." also, for some reason the space defense front is appeased all because of a promise that every nation will get equal shares of space materials.
>>123511733 it's fine to bring up issues and not solve them; this is supposed to be a realistic show. my issue is how sometimes they just make situations black and white and the dialogue is incredibly lacking of any nuance. conversations near the end just become "i'm poor and you're rich. i lack any self awareness at all."
>>123511773 >entirely subjective of course. >A majority believe it to be "very good" to "excellent" so you're the odd one out. you're the one appealing to some sense of authority here. i explained that the second half definitely used the world-building and character-building elements of the first half nicely, but a linear structure would have been a lot better, simply due to how i personally didn't enjoy the focus on a lot of the beginning episodes. ham-fisted philosophical ideals and a really unaware sense of how capitalism works.
and i understand tanabe's character, which is why in those last moments of despair she realizes that her love didn't save hachimaki. it would have been a fitting character arc for her to take the oxygen, and then the shuttle comes etc. this would make her recovery and hachimaki's revelation much more emotionally impacting when they reunite on earth. it would be hachimaki actually saving her. this is of course subjective but i feel like this is the only moment they could have done something with her character. as a character herself, she was incredibly weak and secondary to hachimaki, she was barely shown in the second half and when she was it was all about hachimaki. i wish she had grown as a character like hachimaki did. that's a big issue of mine.
>>123512112 Agree as far as hachi's shot goes, but tanabe's thing was a very deliberate statement on her worldview. For her to have taken that action would be in direct opposition to everything she'd done up to that point, and would have left a bad taste in the mouth for the remaining couple of episodes.
>>123512611 If Hachi had crossed the line and killed Hakim, he would be beyond helping. The manga had a (very dumb) dramatic kiss to snap him out of it but the anime decided that Hachi needed to take six or so months to crawl out of the hole he was in mentally.
Also, LOOK AT THIS FUCKING SON OF A BITCH HOLY SHIT
>>123512467 A large problem of mine is how the Space Defense Force is actually never really developed. The show actually took it upon themselves to try to solve an issue which had been a theme; the exploitation/denial of third world countries by the first world. It's an absurd thing to suddenly wrap it up simply by saying "we'll share the minerals." It's far too idealistic and felt like it was sliding the issue away.
Also, when Hakim and Hachi were arguing, their conversations never got philosophical, which is what that entire segment was pointing to. I was wanting someone to actually argue about how you can justify killing 120,000 people, which Hakim was fully intending upon doing. There is a scene in which one of the "yellow construction guys" says they were abandoned, I assume by the "cat hacker". This probably means that the hijackers themselves were completely unaware that a deal was trying to be done. Hakim was fully intending to kill all those people, but it was never really rationalized. That really can sum up one of my major issues: things being half-assed in the show.
>>123512611 It becomes even worse with Hachi when they show that the effect of him just "pulling the trigger" was what Hakim said would happen, that he would "fall into the abyss." This is the climax of his character arc; his shooting happened. This was resolved by what is apparently a near-death experience by drowning.
All things were pointing towards Tanabe also having that climax, but she ended up sticking to her ideals, which is fine, but I feel it ultimately undermines the show and its ability to go beyond just a simple, idealistic show.
>>123511502 >every sort of "theme" or issue they wish to deal with is hamfisted >episodic first half also is a terrible structure at character development >early episodic episodes were terrible
It's nice that you're at least trying, but your arguments still fundamentally come down to subjective reasoning. It's hamfisted because you don't think it's subtle enough. You think not being subtle enough is somehow inherently better. You say that the first half is terrible at character development, even though that wasn't its purpose, as the show's creators were more concerned with characterization, to make you understand each character's personality and goals, what makes them tick and such.
And things are also "plot devices" when you disapprove of them, and not when you approve of them.
>>123512853 >simple, idealistic show I think you're confusing naive, unquestioned idealism with the idealism Ai clings on to. It is clearly shown that she struggles with the world challenging her moral compass. As >>123511773 put it, even though staying true to her fundamental idea that love is needed to face an otherwise meaningless universe yields great suffering, she nonetheless finds the strength to keep believing. In fact, I think that your version of stealing the oxygene would mean succumbing to cheap cynicism and take away the nobility of her struggle.
>>123512853 The show never attempted to "solve" it, since there essentially is no real solution to wealth disparity. The terrorists simply got the negotiations to go their way this time, but there's nothing to ensure them that powerful nations won't try again in the future to monopolize space development. The show only ever attempted to present terrorism in an understandable context and not the AXIS OF EVIL or LITERALLY WORSE THAN HITLER statements you hear from some politicians or media outlets over and over again in real life.
>Hakim was fully intending to kill all those people, but it was never really rationalized He already rationalized it in the show. He literally states that the sacrifices made to get into space are not worth it in his opinion and that he's willing to kill the few to save the many. The show has communicated the motives for its antagonists, there's no need to go any deeper than that.
>>123505133 personally, I preferred the manga, but I bought and enjoyed both. The most irksome think about the anime is the japanese office politics. I didn't like either the manager or mr. party favors.
>>123513129 >but your arguments still fundamentally come down to subjective reasoning
are you fucking stupid? do you know what you're saying?
>It's hamfisted because you don't think it's subtle enough yes >You think not being subtle enough is somehow inherently better. what the fuck are you saying here >>123513129 >You say that the first half is terrible at character development, except i didn't. i said it was a terrible structure: episodic episode structure that shows a different story each time involving the characters in order to show the character's personalities. > even though that wasn't its purpose, as the show's creators were more concerned with characterization, to make you understand each character's personality and goals, what makes them tick and such. characterization noun 1. portrayal; description: the actor's characterization of a politician.
the characterization happens in episode 1. everything else is development aftewards.
>And things are also "plot devices" when you disapprove of them, and not when you approve of them.
i believe that when you create something, you wish to maintain a flow that doesn't make the viewer feel like they are witnessing "plot devices" happen, but rather the natural way of things. when you analyze things, good and bad things can be plot devices, but during my viewing i was taken aback by those moments which i why i specifically called those out by the term.
>>123513539 >do you know what you're saying? Yes, I'm saying that in spite of your efforts to make a reasoned arguments, you're basically saying "It's bad because it's bad."
>what the fuck are you saying here I'm saying that even if the show was hamfisted about its themes, there's no actual reason why this is a bad thing any more than being subtle is a good thing. It all comes down to your tastes.
>characterization happens in episode 1 No. You mainly had Tanabe Ai's characterization in episode 1. The other episodes in the first half are there for the others.
>>123513539 >i said it was a terrible structure: episodic episode structure that shows a different story each time involving the characters in order to show the character's personalities. I don't see the issue here. The early episodes served to introduce elements of the world such as the geopolitical situation or the relative insignificance of the cast while providing opportunities to see said cast interact and react in a varied set of situations.
>>123513477 They "solved" it in the context of the show, by brushing it aside with a simple resolution. Also, the show didn't really make me appreciate the terrorist's motivation because of Hakim and Claire being the only two that are actually motivated; but their ideals are really lacking in any intelligent capacity. I really wish they had actually gone to lengths to develop these motivations far more than just Claire meeting the El Tanikan man and then realizing that capitalistic exploitation is bad.
Hakim sort of has a revelation at the end; when he realizes you can't see the countries from space. This is supposed to imply all sorts of things; perhaps he is doubting his conviction, or perhaps he realizes that out in space, things like "nations" are pointless, especially to a Lunarian. I appreciate this writing, but it really shows how little Hakim has actually thought about things. I for one, think that Nationalism is such a silly thing and it's strange that this was never evaluated when the two terrorist's motivations were for their country.
>>123513778 >Yes, I'm saying that in spite of your efforts to make a reasoned arguments, you're basically saying "It's bad because it's bad."
I list examples from the show and explain why, using reasoned thought, I think they are bad or good. You're the idiot who said: >but your arguments still fundamentally come down to subjective reasoning What, I'm not using objective reasoning? You're fucking stupid.
>>123513809 Episode four, what a great episode when they introduce generic rich asshole guy, who lacks any pride and is fully aware of how he is a cyst on the world. What a great plot device to show how hierarchical society is bad! Episode six is even better, when they have a cast of Ninjas who sure are wacky and silly, but they're happy together! Until they all die after they get a job, of course.
Or, what about that episode where Fee really wants to smoke? God damn, she wants to smoke, but they keep blowing up bombs where she can smoke!
I'm realizing more and more how much I hated the first half.
>>123513873 They didn't solve it, they simply made concessions to avert a single crisis. Solving it would mean both terrorism and its causes are now no more, which is not the case.
>show didn't really make me appreciate the terrorist's motivation because of Hakim and Claire being the only two that are actually motivated Why would we need to see the motivation of terrorists other than Hakim and Claire? Hakim and Claire are the terrorists the show uses to communicate to the viewers on the motives of the terrorist group as a whole.
>ideals are really lacking in any intelligent capacity How is it lacking? They're fed up with trying to work within the corrupt capitalist system and resort to violent means. That's a perfectly believable reason for terrorism as real life shows.
>far more than just Claire meeting the El Tanikan man Except the show did do that. Claire didn't just meet her fellow compatriot and then go, "I'm a terrorist now!" We saw her get completely disillusioned with trying to make it on her own and she presumably gets indoctrinated by Hakim. Just because the show doesn't make her into a primary character doesn't mean we have enough scenes to figure out why she turned to terrorism.
>>123514135 > list examples from the show Yeah, and your examples are literally it's bad because I say so. Look in your own fucking post:
>God damn, she wants to smoke, but they keep blowing up bombs where she can smoke!
You imply this is bad for no other reason it's bad other than you dislike it. I'm not debating whether or not you think it's a bad, since you clearly do. I'm saying that the very reasons you use to prove that it's bad can be used just as well to prove that it's good.
>>123513500 and the irksome thing about the manga... too short! I want a follow-up series, "Planets", about slice-of-life aboard the Daedalus Jupiter mission, showing how Hachi deals with cabin fever, space emergencies, and the solar system's longest long-distance relationship!
>>123514198 I think I can simply answer you by saying that I expected more. If you're going to include such serious issues as terrorism based on exploitation, I'd expect it handled in a far better method.
Addressed your last point, though. Claire's entire character arc began with her compatriot, though. If you're arguing that the show made it clear why she turned to terrorism; I'm arguing the contrary position. I didn't feel that her motivation was justified. Neither was Hakim's.
>>123514210 The tone of the beginning of that episode was 100% comical; surrounded around Fee wanting to smoke. I'm not even going to concede on that. Rewatch the episode.
>>123514337 I can point out specific issues, which require just a little bit of thought. Tone issues, character simplification issues. The lack of Fee ever actually having a personality developed, even though the other supporting character as important as her, Yuri, has a character arc as well.
>>123514337 >I'm saying that the very reasons you use to prove that it's bad can be used just as well to prove that it's good.
>>123514568 >Daedalus Pretty sure it was the Von Braun. >>123514676 >The tone of the beginning of that episode was 100% comical That doesn't justify you boiling down one of the more complex episodes in the series to a single element.
Yes, that is how opinions work, meaning that your reasons for not finding a character's motivation fleshed out or believable enough, or an instance of the plot that you feel is contrived enough to be called a plot device, or atmosphere issues, etc. tell us more about your own preferences than the show itself.
>>123512138 >and i understand tanabe's character, which is why in those last moments of despair she realizes that her love didn't save hachimaki. it would have been a fitting character arc for her to take the oxygen, and then the shuttle comes etc. this would make her recovery and hachimaki's revelation much more emotionally impacting when they reunite on earth. What a steaming load of opinions. I'm sorry it wasn't edgy enough for you, but that is in no way indicative of quality. The fact that you think your one particular way to resolve the conflict is the 'right' way is arrogant and narrow minded. Truth be told, I'm not super happy with how that scene went down (mostly because I think it was a cop out to have her survive) but to think it's shallow because the character didn't go the way you wanted her to is stupid.
>>123521053 He just missed the point of Tanabe's arc completely. She was able to stay strong and true to her deepest held beliefs in the face of the absolute bullshit she'd been forced through. Hell, one of her last cries of exasperation during that scene was expressing frustration at what an unbelievable shitty run she'd had.
>>123505133 I finished and started the manga yesterday and am currently on episode5 of the anime. I'd say they're both different enough to be enjoyed equally.
I think this has easily become one of my new favourite series. I should buy some hard copies of both the anime and the manga. Also, if you decide to just read the manga, do yourself a favour and don't skip the OST.
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