>KyoAni shows aren't very high-budget and in fact below average
Based KyoAni finds a way to BTFO other studios despite using less money
>And the interesting story I heard
Who is this person anyway?
>Euphonium reminds me too much of concert band.
Japan needs an anime about marching bands or drum corps. Some determined student decides to revive their school's marching band, and works to recruit other students to the cause. Their ultimate goal is to get straight Superiors at regionals, and then, at Koshien. Er, rather, the marching band equivalent of nationals. Loads of characters, lots of passion, potential for both drama and comedy, etc. It could be great.
I mean, if we can get shows about American football, why not some about American-style bands?
Because marching band is actually pretty boring.
>Can't talk 'cause spaced out on field.
>Run same pictures over and over because clarinets can't march.
>Yell at the Trombone in your section who lets his horn sag constantly.
>Do this every day for months.
>Go to competition and march.
>Because marching band is actually pretty boring.
You could say the same for a lot of things that have made good manga/anime.
>Go is boring
>Farming is boring
>Wine-tasting is boring
It's all in the execution. I think there's a lot of potential for fun characters and stories in the concept. And anything that's too boring could get glossed over easily.
Not that any of that matters, I guess, since marching doesn't appear to be a thing in Japan.
That tweet aside, Kyoani uses less animators per episode than the vast majority of shows. They use less than ten animators per episode on average while the typical show will easily have double the amount and that's not even including second key animation work.
The problem is that 99% of marching band doesn't involve any human interaction. You get your music and your little card that says where you're supposed to be on the field at each point, and you play the music and follow the card. You do this over and over until everyone can get it right. You might have little meetings before or after practice, but that's it. Cutting out all the boring parts would be literally cutting out the whole thing. With no chance for character interaction, you can't make it interesting.
Hyouka was indeed gorgeous. Does Euphonium measure up? Haven't gotten around to watching it yet.
I finally got around to watching Kyoukai no Kanata the other day. Say what you want about the plot and characters, but it was pretty nice to look at. I don't have any gifs, though.
There's a lot more to that, though.
>rehearsing the musical pieces in the concert hall
>picking section leaders and brass/woodwind captains
>fighting over who is first/second/third clarinet/trumpet, etc.
>struggling to balance the time demands of band with schoolwork
>rival schools, and interactions between them
>students trying to figure out if they should give up marching band (and let down their team) to to focus on pursuing their dream as a concert musician
Also, I don't know how much you experienced if you were in band, but there was more than enough human interaction going on during rehearsals. Perfect time for characters to talk. Not to mention the mishaps that could come from messing up on the field during actual shows. You just have to to break down the activity to its parts and play up the most interesting bits. Again, there's a lot of shows that are based around activities that seem boring at first, but the execution of the story makes it interesting enough.
Tamako love story made Yamads explore more visual effects such as depth of field, chromatic aberrations, and color filters
All of which are incorporated
and done wellin Euphonium
Other studios are all in Tokyo, which has almost double the cost of living of Kyoto. It means that not only are their budgets lower, so they have to sell less to make a profit, but their employees can live much better lives. Low level animators that work in Tokyo often have to live more than 2 hours away from work, because they make so little, which means a 10 hour work day with a 2 hour train commute there and back. It's really crushingly terrible. But most of the industry is willing to be completly explotative just so they can have an office in a tredier place. Watching KyoAni is being a more ethical consumer, sort of like drinking fair trade coffee.
They do whatever the fuck they want apparently. KyoAni does not produce these shows and expect them to sell extremely well. There is no excuse here. I guess they're always getting the money from the occasional adaptation.
I always thought their shows had a high budget for how smooth, detailed, and colorful they were
>Watching KyoAni is being a more ethical consumer,
No, you stupid fuck. Buying their BDs is being a more ethical consumer. Watching their shitfests is like parking your car outside Starbucks to use their wifi and patting yourself on the back for it
>Getting mad at chinese cartoon men
I just think most of their shows suck now, but I have great respect for their business practices and working conditions, and I wish all other studios would follow their example.
>Yeah, that sounds like Japan.
The "prime office location" thing happens a lot in the US, too. There are a ridiculous number of companies headquartered in Manhattan that could save a shit-ton if they'd just move to other parts of the city, or even
Jersey.It would help their employees, too, since as the previous anon mentioned, most of them have to commute because they can't afford to live near their workplace.
The last place I worked at just laid off about a dozen people if they could just move their office out of the Flatiron District, they probably wouldn't have needed to let so many people go. But people love keeping up appearances.
Then you have places like San Francisco, where people choose to pay insane prices to live in the city and then actually commute to the less populated, less expensive areas where their workplace is located.
Who said it was only Western? I'm sure that Japan has forums that talk about anime too. It's not like /a/ is the only image board out there about anime. They care because it influences their sales. More talk about how shitty something is usually results in less sales.
People who love their jobs > Korean Slave Sweatshops
Higher productivity and talent allows wasting less money on unnecessary stuff like replacement whips for the slaves and constant remaking of keyframes outsourced to Tytanic.
Euphonium will have them Marching with insitruments and in military like uniforms somewhere mid seasons. The only one without instrument will be Opal-chan, since she`s too small to carry Big Violin.
>implying Kyoani owns the rights to FMP
>How does he knows the budget of other studios?
People in the industry know how much anime costs to make, you had to know the average costings or you would get ripped off.
IMO, KyoAni's greatest strength is their organisation. They are famous in their industry not for the art, but for the fact that things get done on time. They have a schedule, and they follow it. This means they know how many days it takes to finish a job, and don't push the impossible like Shaft infamously do.
This is why voice actresses working in KyoAni shows make their recording against the backdrop of the near complete actual anime, while Shaft voice actresses had to record their lines against blank screens. To know accurately how many days it takes to do a task and achieve that to the day is an art. It requires planning, smart management, and realistic prediction of workspeed.
Recently it is revealed that sometimes KyoAni animators did have to do over-time. But they did point out that this isn't the norm, unlike other studios where people sleep at their desks.
Thats not how it works. Kyoani spend less money on each project but spend more on regular worker's monthly wage.
Its different from other other studios who spend more money on each project because they need to pay part-time/freelance/outsource in high amount because they have very little to none regular staff.
So? Its still the same. If their show flopped below 5k or 6k, they'll still eat their shoes. The difference is, KyoAni will still live strong even with 5 consecutive flops because they still have animator school and a shop (I don't know how important the latter is, but the former holds significant value in their asset.
>Not their fault Nippon has shit taste
Holy shit this always get me triggered everymotherfuckingtime
SJWs get really bent out of shape about otaku culture. The oddities and heavy fetishism within it make it an easy target for them to pick apart since it comes off as strange to the general public. Things like ecchi anime and games are also openly sexual, and even though SJWs claim to be about "sex positivity" they seem to go against that dogma when it involves the gratuitous portrayal of "attractive" characters. SJWs also seem to hate this sort of stuff on the basis that a group they see as "privileged" enjoys it. Personally I feel half of SJWism is about trying to spite people they don't like under the cover of being "progressive."
Another element of this comes from the cancer of western anime fandom. Western anime fans typically expect anime to be nothing more than action shows and battle shonen. Romcoms, slice of life, and just about anything with cute or sexy girls gets them seriously pissed off, and they easily relate to SJW rants about otaku culture, anime and Japanese games. Western fans of anime and Japanese games have this odd entitlement towards the mediums, and often act like otaku culture is screwing them out of the anime/games they want. What they fail to realize is this stuff was always aimed at the otaku audience to begin with, (yes, even "back in the day.") minus a very small handful of anime, manga, or games that test the waters of pandering to western or more mainstream audiences.
Websites like Kotaku, Anime News Network, and Japanator pump out clickbait that promotes and normalizes this attitude within fans of Japanese games and anime, and they have done so for years. This turned the majority of western fans into self-hating trainwrecks, censorship apologists, and bitter, angry fans that hardly enjoy their hobby anymore.
The novel does not belong to them, but to some small local publisher. KyoAni however personally picked it up and invested into adaptation and production, since wanted to do that type of show and setting is litterally town where they are located - so while novel itself does not belong to them, pretty much everything anime related is.
Its more "KyoAni" show, than say "Hyouka" or "Nichijou" which were paid adaptations.
Efficiency is higher with normal work hours and sleep schedules, who would have guessed. Elevens just have a weird fixation with spending lots of time at work over actual productivity. It's shameful for a salaryman to go home at 5 even if he did a ton of work, you have to stay late at the office, regardless of how well you do your actual job.
they work normal hours and generally don't work overtime although there are some animator stories about crunch time on big projects like the Haruhi stuff. Something like Takamoto and one other animator spending all night getting a Haruhi scene right but not because it was being rushed but because they were getting too into it.
>why not some about American-style bands?
>Because marching band is actually pretty boring.
Just fucking make this into an anime and I'm sold!
Kyoani's magnum opus was Disappearance. But I agree that Hyouka was easily their best TV anime.
>magnum opus refers to the largest, and perhaps the best, greatest, most popular, or most renowned achievement of an artist.
hyoucrap doent fit that bill, not even in the most hipster fantasy
that's pretty much what Euphonium is going to be. They even perform in a parade at some point. Then there's fights over who is first chair because Reina is a first year who is better than the third years, rehearsals to see who is even going to get to get a seat, people in the club who quit to focus on their studies
_Aoi_, people in the club who quit because the teacher is an asshole, a rival school with sexy outfits and and forbidden love between student and sensei.
Well yeah, it had to be that way. The Haruhi money well only lasts for so long as KyoAni has made so many bad business decisions that the only way they could possibly stay afloat is if all their shows maintained low budgets despite the quality of the animation.
Sounds great on paper, they must be doing some magic Houdini shit right? But the only way they could be pulling this off is if the animators that works there are working way more for less. And if you follow the anime industry at all you know animators are paid pennies and are treated like shit so that just tells me KyoAni is a fucking sweatshop.
I don't envy those poor Japanese sons of bitches.
So let me get this straight
>has better animation than other studios
>pays their animators better
>their animators work less hours
>somehow still manages to keep their costs lower
How do they do it? It's fucking magic?
I guess they really do find a way.
Aren't they like the only major studio based in the east of Japan? In that case, they'd simply be overflowing with talented applicants, by virtue of being the only real opportunity to prospective animators.
>super-serious "Victory or death" people pretty much ruin everything.
>let's join something then not give a shit about it
>then let's act like the people who actually care are in the wrong!
I'm assuming there is a lot of waste at other studios too that lead to unnecessarily higher budgets.
Like if you are falling behind schedule and have to hire more guys on short notice will cost more.
If you have to bring a guy back to redo animations for particular scenes for the BD release because the TV version was terrible will cost more.
Wastes like that is how a crapfest like The Room cost 6 million dollars
>so many bad business decisions
Kyoani's entire networth has literally doubled since they started doing their own shit. They make more money now than ever, their sales are even higher somehow even though overall BD sales are lower.
These are the business summaries for Kyoani, 2009 vs 2014.
I swear these Kyoani are dying things remind me of how people think Nintendo is dying.
Isn't it interesting there has basically never been a single piece of bad publicity about Kyoani considering how popular and relevant they are in the industry?
Other than that one rumor about Yamakan trying to sekuhara Yamada which is the real reason he was laid off.
>Isn't it interesting there has basically never been a single piece of bad publicity about Kyoani considering how popular and relevant they are in the industry?
They manage to produce good work BECAUSE they run their company well. You got the cause and effect backwards. Badly run companies get bad publicity because they are badly run. Being famous doesn't make you bad.
They got everything, they're pretty self contained. Getting into the school is hard enough in itself too.
There's literally nothing Kyoani can't do.
When will you accept them into your lives naysayers?
Your favorite studio ain't shit compared to Kyoani. Yeah, even if your favorite studio is Kyoani.
>I suppose that's a fair point.
>I was just surprised that one of the most renowned studios in the industry manages to keep such a low profile.
They are famous, but only to those in the industry. In a way it isn't by choice, because if given the chance I am sure they would love to have a famous director at the helm, writing original stories that sell well. That would have put them on the map. As it is, KyoAni is famous, but without any singular employee actually taking up being the "face" of the company. This is, as I say, because they couldn't find a decent full time writer.
>any singular employee actually taking up being the "face" of the company.
I'm not sure they want that. KyoAni in general feels very much like a big family or something. What's that about always wanting to animate something that everyone is interested in. Feels like they care a lot about the individual relationships and people that work there.
>Yamada -> dyke
>Takemoto -> normalfag
>Utsumi -> fujoshi
>Ishihara -> oldfag (maybe together with Kigami)
>Ishidate -> autist
They need new direction as well as a new art direction. They did Nichijou once, what stopping them from doing it again?
>As it is, KyoAni is famous, but without any singular employee actually taking up being the "face" of the company.
I feel that this is actually a good thing. Although you don't get the publicity that a big-name showrunner would bring in, you also get less involved with the fuss that comes from having a company "face". People still talk about individual directors for KyoAni, but at least it's not like the love/hate brigades that follow certain big-name writers.
they just had a Free one where they announced the Shota movie. Euphonium has an event next month. And Amagi apparently has one in May too. The fact that theres still Amagi artwork still coming out makes me wonder if they're going to do an announcement.
>How do they do it? It's fucking magic?
Good scheduling. By allowing more time for things, they don't need to rush anything. Rushing would mean pulling in loads of staff to get something done quickly, and that isn't cheap.
I'm surprised that Kyoani's budget is so meager. I would've expected more from people who made classics like Clannad and Haruhi. Before you rattle off about how it's just a baby's first melodrama, that's exactly what makes it a classic.
It makes you wonder, if their shows right now are considered below average budget.
What if Kyoani went all out on a show?
It would be like looking on the face of god.
KyoAni understands something that Japanese work culture is too retarded to grasp: happier workers = more productive workers.
They actually pay their staff living wages and don't force them to work until they want to die.
>they just had a Free one where they announced the Shota movie. Euphonium has an event next month. And Amagi apparently has one in May too. The fact that theres still Amagi artwork still coming out makes me wonder if they're going to do an announcement.
An OVA, fumoffu style, would be sufficient to cover the ABC girl's own arcs. And we can make Fumofu jokes while we are at it.
>an OVA has already been announced
I just went and Googled. We are getting a bonus episode in the DVDs, but not a proper OVA series yet. There is a special even on March the 26th to celebrate the "30th anniversary" of the in-story themepark, I expect any proper OVA series would be announced then.
Note that a full TV series is out of the question, there isn't enough material. At best we have 6 episodes of story available as of now.
>If kyoAni budget is low, why Kadokawa doesn't ask kyoAni to make their anime? Considering most KadokawaxkyoAni's anime are a big hit?
They DO. But KyoAni know how fast they could work and don't take any more jobs than they could handle. It doesn't matter how much money Kadokawa give them, KyoAni isn't going to work any faster. Kadokawa own hundreds of books they want to animate, so they don't have time to have KyoAni as their bottleneck when they need multiple anime made a year.
Funny then that thread was deleted while this was not.
Kyoani wins again.
Kyoani also gets to decide if they want to work on a project
Not kadokawa, but TBS wanted kyoani make a season 3 of K-ON!, but Yamada refused, saying she wanted to work on something new
I travel nearly two hours each way just to travel to my university. That really isn't abnormal for people working in cities around the world. When I was working fulltime even without travel time I was working 11 hour days.
You sound like a child.
This thread is making me want to start my yearly Hyouka watch earlier than I'd planned.
>***,696位/***,637位 ★ (***,360 pt) [*,**4予約] Hibike! Euphonium
Being an animator isn't the same as knowing business finances. That's like saying working as an intern for several companies means you have accurate insight to how much each company earns before declared taxes.
Why do people take whatever thread they can and assign retarded amounts of authority to it? Is it because you are still a teenager or something? Animators aren't involved in finances. They are paid (often poorly) to animate. That's it. They aren't accountants or managers.
And he even said it's just something he heard. For all we know he could be hearing it from a completely unreliable source. Only retarded kyoanuslickers will take it for the truth.
Didn't you read the thread? Having a lower budget doesn't automatically mean they're squeezing their workers for maximum profits. Sometimes it's just the result of better locations and better planning.
>Being an animator isn't the same as knowing business finances.
Funny enough, being a business exec doesn't mean that you know anything about animation. That's the reason why crunch occurs, and executives have a habit of throwing money at the problem to try to make it go away. It doesn't really work well. It happens in nearly every industry. I don't know if we can take this guy's word for it at face value, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the truth.
In Japan, presence/attendance is valued more than actual output for most offices. This is the old way. Corporations like Toyota in their manufacturing branches really bucked the trend in this regard, admittedly with western concepts. Combine the retarded work ethic of Japanese workers with a highly efficient workflow and you get the best car manufacturers in the world. Pity this isn't adapted on a wider scale. Mindsets take many generations to change in a lot of cases. Oh well.
>Kadokawa is chasing KyoAni left and right
>Didn't give a speck of budget on Amaburi
>That's like saying working as an intern for several companies means you have accurate insight to how much each company earns before declared taxes.
Honestly, that could be an accurate statement, depending on how transparent your employers are with their workers. When I interned at a game company, they had several meetings devoted to explaining to their employees what their current profits were, and how they would affect the company's structure.
If you do that enough times at enough companies, you'll probably know a air amount about each company's financial situation. Not enough to beat a business executive at any particular company, but enough to have a decent idea of what you're talking about.
>5 years isn't going to make that much of a difference unless we are talking about Zimbabwe.
Five years is rather significant, mate. You don't apply local household budgets at a corporate level.
>being a business exec doesn't mean that you know anything about animation
Simply irrelevant in this matter.
Oh I know you're going to quote your post about how executives throw their money at problems but that is also irrelevant since you can't prove other studios do it and even if you can it simply has nothing to do with proving how low or high Kyoani's budget for a show is.
>make higher quality productions
>for cheaper than average
>make more money than average per show
WHY ARE THEY SO BASED?
>Five years is rather significant, mate. You don't apply local household budgets at a corporate level.
You also forget that Japan basically was stuck at deflation for years. It was only very recently that their inflation numbers actually moved.
>Yamada = autism with cinematography
>Takemoto = good writer/animator/director but normie as fuck
>Utsumi = fujoshit liking melodrama shit
>Ishihara = moralfag like Anno
>Ishidate = autist
It would be cool to see some marching accidents in hyper exaggerated animation.
Shit like marching backwards so fast the MC somehow does a triple roll after losing his footing.
Oh in that case Kigami got plenty of years left probably.
I mean he doesn't even work that hard a schedule seems like. Does some scenes for their movies, then one sometimes two episodes for each show.
From what I've heard, KyoAni are better at planning things out and sticking to plans, so they don't have to do things in a mad rush and have to pay more to get things done quickly. The result is that their animation looks good, and doesn't cost as much as every other studio which suck at sticking with plans.
>Simply irrelevant in this matter.
It's relevant in that animators probably have a better idea of a proper schedule than the business executives. You can see the failure of the business executives to understand a proper schedule in pretty much any big-budget film, movie, or game. Take EA, for instance. They hire a slew of temps near the end of production cycles for crunch, then end their contracts after the release. Then they hire a ton of temps again over the course of the next game's development, and even more during that game's crunch, and then let the go again. Multiple people who work in the industry have remarked that this makes no sense (read Glassdoor reviews, former employee blogs, etc), but they keep doing it. And it keeps costing them more and more money. Animation studios do this too (which is why you see tons of outsourcing and eventual BD redraws when they finally get the damned time to actually work on the art).
>Oh I know you're going to quote your post about how executives throw their money at problems
Why would I quote my own post? All I'm saying is that this is an obvious pattern that's been in many industries for a long time. I'd actually say that whether or not KyoAni throws money at the problem is the irrelevant part; it's obvious that other studios do, and it isn't working at all.
I don't get why some people want to see KyoAni fail so badly.
Takemoto didn't write things except if it was his original works.
Not if you have to hire several of them for every episode, when you could have just structured your schedule better so that you wouldn't have to hire tons of cheap labor at all.
You're just mad because your shitty attention span couldn't let you focus on watching something only slightly different 6 times or so.
Each individual episode of E8 was well directed and well written.
They only pay Vietnamese animators one pack of smuggled cigarette per anime.
Source: My extensive knowledge of the industry that I read from the internet that I take as the absolute truth.
Kyoani should start a schedule management class at their school, and invite the other studios to attend so they can be taught how to make great animation at low cost.
That would benefit the entire industry.
Shit, man, I'm not him, but my attention span is long enough for me to love Hyouka so I'd say it's at least marginally developed. Still:
>watching something only slightly different 6 times or so
No matter how well written or directed, that doesn't sound enjoyable at all.
Re-watching something because it's fun and comfy, that I'm fine with. Going and watching what I expect to be a new episode of something and getting the same thing done again but subtly differently is more frustrating than anything. I might even have been able to live with it if the different iterations were spaced out over the series, but not one after the godsdamned other 8 times in a row.
I'm >>124283681 and like I said, I watch Hyouka yearly (and sometimes more than that) but I have a long span of space between each rewatch so that I can properly appreciate the show when I see it again. Watching the same episode over and over again within one series would probably just piss me off. I can't imagine how people felt when it was airing and they saw mostly the same thing week after week. I saw a couple of rage threads, but they were mostly in my periphery since I stopped after the first season.
E8 is what makes a studio like KyoAni stand out. With unconventional approaches like the minimalistic repetition used for E8, the time loop phenomena really sinks into the viewer's mind. No other established studio would dare to go as far as that to prove this point. People remeber this sequence not only because it was so terribly frustrating but rather because of how well the viewers themselves were put into the equation.
That's all well and good, but unconventional isn't always a good thing, and sometimes there are good reasons why most people wouldn't dare do a particular thing. Endless Eight is a good case in point... unconventional, but not positively so. No other studios dared to pull something like that because it pisses audiences off, and not in a way that raises meaningful points that makes them reconsider long-held prejudices and the like.
>E8 is what makes a studio like KyoAni stand out. With unconventional approaches like the minimalistic repetition used for E8, the time loop phenomena really sinks into the viewer's mind. No other established studio would dare to go as far as that to prove this point. People remeber this sequence not only because it was so terribly frustrating but rather because of how well the viewers themselves were put into the equation.
And also because they did everything the hard way.
They got different directors for each episode, and have every line of dialogue re-recorded for each. You don't have to like the result, but they certainly didn't take the easy way out.
>Animation directors can take a break after completing his or her episode until the next one begins, but the chief animation director is responsible for the entire series or project, so if I take that job, I'm lucky if I get even Sundays off for the entire duration. The work is non-stop, and I'm required to oversee two to three episodes at a time. Honestly, the expectations of a chief animation director are unrealistic, not to mention inhumane. When the going gets tough, a staff meeting is held to decide which episodes or scenes need to be sacrificed in order to stay on schedule. We all find having to make those kinds of decisions upsetting and humiliating, but that's often the only way to meet the deadlines.
-Cindy Yamauchi, director who works at Madhouse
>And also because they did everything the hard way.
>They got different directors for each episode, and have every line of dialogue re-recorded for each. You don't have to like the result, but they certainly didn't take the easy way out.
I respect them for doing it that way, but it still doesn't mean I like having 8 episodes of the same thing in a row.
>I respect them for doing it that way, but it still doesn't mean I like having 8 episodes of the same thing in a row.
Things happen. There is a suspicion that it wasn't their decision to have Disappearance as a movie, but we will never know the truth.