>>124369252 Same sort of dynamic in a way; Tohsaka is really not so sure of herself on the inside and puts up a tough front pretending to be the knowledgeable onee-san. Tohsaka Sakura would be more meek on the inside but would put up a tough front when she's on the battlefield. In that situation and knowing what rides on them, it's noted the sisters are almost entirely the same. They'd both put on the same sort of front with people.
Apply the same logic to the other girl.
Even Nasu talks about how similar those girls are in the way they deal with things, so just imagine the result being the same but individual pieces different.
>>124369479 Well, what little time for romance that Rin and Shirou had was born from them knowing each other, even if from afar. That wouldn't exist with a reversal of roles between the girls. Not likely that Shirou would have even been aware of Sakura then. I can't begin to think of all the changes in HF.
>>124369347 I am pretty sure Matou Rin would be more open about sex and not be ashamed of it like Sakura. The only problem I see is that Rin would gladly kill herself if she notices that she is the shadow, so HF would just end up as a big bad end for her.
>>124369681 Like it's been said, the sisters are very alike. Just like how both of them fell for the same guy, even if the situation was reverse they'd likely do the same thing in different ways.
Sakura ends up explaining the contest to him in the first days after he stops Saber from nearly killing her Archer, who's Karna or something in this case I guess? I'm not even pretending to guess what she'd summon here, unless she actually ended up using the old snakeskin this time around.
Just because the personality changes in some ways, doesn't mean the route itself won't change to reflect that and show a different dynamic, yeah. Sakura also wanted to die, which is kind of why Shirou promised to be her super hero, that would save her from even herself.
In this case he'd do it even more. The route would change to reflect the dynamic.
>>124369984 What? You're not thinking backwards enough, Sakura basically has the role of Rin in this story, even if her individual pieces are changed.
She still saved him on the opening day and went to go save him after realizing shit was bad with Lancer, then explained shit, since she's been training for ten years in this world-line.
Might be doubtful Rin summoned Rider as well, but Rin doesn't have Rin's role in this scenerio, she has Sakura's role in a sense. The individual pieces will chance, some choices will change, but considering their similarities you could see large pieces still hitting similar marks.
Just imagine Sakura, Tokiomi left her everything, ten years she's trained, finally summoned her servant, she's been studying, believes she knows the rules entirely just like Rin did originally in the contest. Knows that Rin goes to visit this boy a lot, she saw him high-jumping once, she doesn't want him dead either. With her elements not fucked up she originally had the same potential as Rin in terms of magic as well, but she's serving Rin's role in this scenerio, even if she's different.
Rin put on a tough front acting strong at times, Sakura would also do it, they both knew they had everything riding on them among other things since Tokiomi left them everything, but what's behind their strong front is different in this case.
Rin Sakura is doing Sakura things at first here, even if the pieces themselves have changed.
>>124370188 Okay so Sakura would summon EMIYA and Rin would end up with Medusa because grandpa Zouken gives her catalyst. What I think would be different is that Rin would try to test her Medusa against Sakura's EMIYA, pretty early on.
>>124370188 Like, Sakura that grew up normally and trained every day, putting her pride up front to maintain the image of her family, in a "sort of" sense she'd come off with a similar demeanor as the Rin we know. Even if her personality behind that front is different, as Shirou finds out the real her later as they get close.
Rin who endured shit for ten years yet hung in there for the few good things that came, maybe her demeanor would line up as well, maybe. Lets say it does for now, even if its not exact, since it's being expressed in a certain Rin way.
We can't pretend she'll be super haughty probably; Sakura is noted to have more of a Luvia personality naturally if she's less raped, but due to all the rape it comes out more meek and bitter at times. Obviously there will be some personality repercussions, but figuring out how it would effect her in particular is something.
The pieces still come together probably
>>124370257 It's not necessarily saying Sakura used the pendent catalyst, that subject to debate. Although Rin may have used the mirror since Zouken prepared it in that case, rather than it being a choice.
Would Sakura summon in the same way if given a choice of how she does it, would she summon different than Rin, it's a question.
Rin has the "Fuck up at the worst minute trait" rather than Sakura, or is that just a Tohsaka thing entirely. Meaning if she stayed in the family that trait would stay.
Certain pieces are subject to change here, their servants might be such a piece, if you feel that the situation and their personalities come into the factor enough? Could still happen the same though.
>>124370336 Not that anon but I do think that when Nasu said that they are similar is that they have two sides the good one and the devilish one. In F/Z you can see that their personalities are not all that different from their grown up versions, that's their core.
Okay, you guys always complain that there's no Ilya route, but what would happen in it anyway?
Killing Berserker at the beginning and making Ilya stay at your home? Archer and Rin dying halfway through? Team Kotomine acting aggressively from the beginning killing Saber early? Shirou and Ilya going to the Ryudou temple for help because the Emiya mansion isn't safe anymore? Pairing up with Caster, Assassin and Kuzuki? Dark Sakura and Zouken being killed by Gil and Lancer? The true end being that Ilya dies for whatever reason and Shirou becoming EMIYA? The good end being that she gives birth to Shirou's child and then passing away because the homunculus body is reaching its limits? Is that what you want?!
Though I'd just say they're very similar naturally in many ways, and if Fate has shown you anything it's that people that are too similar tend to grate on each other more than anyone. Especially if they're similar in most respects except for one big one.
Shirou and Archer for example, Luvia and Rin, Sakura and Rin, or Kotomine and Shirou. Nasu says "Two people that are almost exactly the same" from what I recall about the sisters.
Course they do naturally have differences, but you can have differences and still be similar. Kotomine and Shirou aren't a mirror of each other.
>>124370494 My guess is that Shirou early on meets her at the park and they build up a relationship, Shirou doesn't partner up with Rin and gets Saber stolen by Caster which she uses to defeat Berserker. I don't know after maybe Medusa helps Shirou rescue Illya?
>>124370812 >Original game was supposed to be two near side, and two far side. I never heard of this before until now. I knew Illya had a route but I don't remember Nasu ever stating it would have branched off HF.
>>124370880 Basically game was planned to be released in two parts. First named "Fate/Stay Night" that would contain Saber and Rin routes and second named "Fate/Other Night" that would contain Sakura and Illya routes. That's also why is Sakura route so different from previous two. It was originally simply part of different game.
>>124371039 That's like saying "That's why Akiha and Arcuied's routes are so different, they're different games".
It's the same game even if its split up, both parts are necessary to understand it, but near side and far side means a lot in Nasuverse. Just like how there's Extra which is the near side, and CCC which is the far side in another part of the universe. Guy keeps reusing this concept every time.
Maid routes might be very different from Arc and Ciel, but they're definitely part of it.
>Black Shadow [??] >Unidentified object. >It gave the impression of a jellyfish on land. The Black Shadow was impervious to conventional attacks, and the target could only await death in its presence. >We ran out of ideas after Saber and Rin routes, so the Black Shadow was a surprise antagonist after much pondering. >It was a favorite of the Chief Director. In terms of how much love the Black Shadow got, its event CG and wallpapers were crafted with much care and effort.
They thought of the first two routes first, maybe some details were set for the final route as well, but they didn't have an antagonist yet or anything. After thinking it over for awhile, they made this, and it become the staff favorite in a sense. They made it still back in the planning stages of the original rather than just "On the spot after the other ones came out" like someone just making unnecessary sequels, but they first two routes were thought out more first.
>>124371214 I mean you say lazy and incomplete, both of those statements are far from truth, even if they're hard to believe. They may have thought of this after, but they put a lot of care and effort into it apparently as the favorite of the directors.
Saying "On the spot" gives it the wrong sort of feeling, like its reaching.
>>124371343 And you seem to be reaching by trying to confirm that this thing was hated by even the creators, to justify how you also dislike it. You kind of want them to say its shit so you can feel confirmed in knowing its shit. When that's really just kind of your opinion.
Though that's all I can really say in a neutral sense, If I tried saying it's good or bad after that then I'd sound a hypocrite.
>>124371407 I just said how you were coming off about this; like you were making it clear already you wanted to believe it a certain way, or were already decided. The creators surely supported your views that it wasn't handled, or else they were just trying to hide it.
Said I wasn't giving my opinion on the character itself in the last post or else I'd sound a hypocrite whether I liked it or hated it, so I was just discussing it neutrally how played out. Characters I like or hate, I'll play devil's advocate if someone's being too closed off on the subject and play different sides. Seems to be how I get in a lot of character discussions for this franchise.
>>124371781 It's certainly like ORT, that inhuman quality to it like a hole in the world does add to the appeal. Like a horror movie monster you can't quite grasp the form of yet. There's something very particular if you can get that feeling down.That type of creature isn't meant to be a character with motivations, feelings, fears; it's meant to be beyond understanding.
Luvia is the people's heroine. A bit character in the VN that slowly grew in popularity and relevance as the years went by. One line in FSN. A minor role in HA. A playable character in UC. A side character in Prisma. And finally a serious mainline role in Case Files. So that begs the question.
I have kind of a weird pet theory that I'd love for some anons to poke holes in. Basically, what if Mind of Steel is the ending that leads to Shirou becoming Archer? It's certainly the ending where he remains true to his ideals no matter the cost, and I can see him turning into a cynical jackass who hates his past self if he has to kill all three of the women he loves.
>>124372079 She's not treated as a meme character in Prism, people just took it that direction and made her into that.
Just like how they made a meme about Rin, Saber, or Sakura when they get screentime at all. Being at all in the limelight means you'll get your share of shit, and become a meme. It's what it means to be popular at all.
It doesn't mean the show your were involved in made you shit or a meme who didn't matter. If you read the manga she's treated well enough, and still has serious moments occasionally. People don't care though, they'll find some nickname to call this character and decide it upon that much.
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