>>124394628 Because Zero left off with Kiritsugu passing on his ideals to Shirou and UBW has to do with him growing up faster than Kerry did and without having to kill hundreds and thousands of fucking people.
Precisely because it's the route less spoiled by Zero. Zero completely spoils the Fate's route biggest twists (Gil's existence, Saber's NP and identity) and it also spoils one of the biggest twists of HF (The Matou household being rotten, Zouken's existence and true personality, wormrape, Sakura and Rin being sisters)
>>124394628 UBW is easily the worst route, Archer backstory is bullshit, Kotomine has no purpose, Shirou is gigantic faggot and had an absurd plot armor, literally pulls power of nowhere. The only good thing is Rin, Lancer and Illya only is you know how she is if you see the Fate route.
>>124395769 So Heaven's Feel? You aren't making much sense anon. Kerry always WANTED to be a hero, sure, but all he ever DID was sacrifice people and be a douche bag that faltered at the last hurdle. Kerry is most like HF Shiro and least like UBW Shiro.
>>124401470 This guy is right, these threads have been populated by Zero babies that just want to repeat Archer memes. Gay for archer days passed you by and now you want to revive memes that you were never even there for.
Fate and Heavens Feel are the best and most lore heavy.
>>124401470 >Archer backstory is bullshit Explain. >Kotomine has no purpose So? >Shirou is gigantic faggot and had an absurd plot armor, literally pulls power of nowhere Explained through the time mechanics. And in what way was he bad? He's arguably at his best in UBW.
UBW is a great route that cuts the fat of Fate, and actually does something with the characters from the original route. The only character who was deeper than a puddle in Fate was Saber, meanwhile you get insight into Shirou, Archer, Rin, Lancer, Medea, Gil, and plenty of others. Hell, Ilya, despite being a ridiculously minor character in UBW, gets more depths here than in Fate.
>>124407086 Yea, people who have never read the novel should not even be discussing what route is good or bad. Seriously fuck off. If you are judging how deep the characters are or how good a route is based on the DEEN anime then there is something wrong with your brain.
>>124407365 I've read the novel, man, and the Fate route only really spends time developing Saber. Practically all of the rest are cutouts.
Shirou obviously isn't nearly as developed as in the subsequent routes; you don't see people bringing up debates over his ideals in the Fate route, do you? It's because they're not particularly elaborated upon. Likewise Archer essentially serves as being a "cool guy" who jobs. Your perception of him completely turns in UBW. Gil is a nothing character who only wants a waifu, who, of course is Saber. Meanwhile in UBW you find out his larger goals and aspirations. Ilya in Fate is pretty bad too; a psychopath loli who literally gets away with murder, but then becomes a sweet little girl by the end. You learn more about her in a few brief scenes in UBW, and of course greatly in HF.
Fate is an establishing route, and it greatly suffers from it.
>>124404095 ...Except no? The whole point of UBW is that Shirou is doing the exact same thing that Archer did, and Archer ended up having to kill people to save others, which is exactly what Kiritsugu did.
Heaven's Feel Shirou is the complete antithesis of Kiritsugu's ideal, because he abandons the many to save the few.
Arguments over routes are absolutely retarded. There's a reason you were forced to read them in a linear order: they're three separate stories, yes, but one complete narrative. You can't have UBW without Fate, and you can't have HF without UBW. Which is why even this adaptation - as good as it is - is unfortunately still inferior to the VN as there is no proper adaptation of Fate.
>>124407547 I also Imagine the reason Fate route was not done was to distance themselves as much as possible from the DEEN version, but that is just a theory. Also like that other anon said, fate is spoiled by zero because of the George Lucas pull.
>>124407725 Finally people with sense, this whole UBW is the best augment so it was done first shit has got to stop.
I personally think Heaven Feel is the best because it expands the most into nasu lore and kinda binds fate in with tsukihime using Zelretch, one of the most bad ass mother fuckers of all time. Not some shitty reason like waifu wars.
>>124408013 HF is arguable, but I don't think UBW suffers from much so far. Ilya got introduced in Zero, and while a relationship between her and Shirou wasn't established, you still know her as Kerry's daughter and someone he would have wanted to protect; Kirei of course got plenty in Zero, so much so that people might actually expect more out of him in UBW.
>>124408358 Since the UBW anime is making direct connections to Zero, I think it does have to factor in to a degree. I mean look at that flashback from last week's episode. It would be nonsense unless you watched Zero.
>>124408358 Really? I think Fate is really good, It had some of the best fights and lines. I think it's version of Shiro was the worst and hated the whole "I want to date saber!" aspect, but other than that it was good. No one would have finished the novel if Fate was a weak route. We really need to think of fate as a cohesive work and not as 3 individual stories.
>>124408401 But my point is that Zero cannot function as a substitute for Fate regardless of how ufotable chose to adapt it. Just off the top of my head, and pulling from some of the other posts in this thread, Zero spoils:
-Saber's identity/her connection to Kiritsugu -Kotomine's participation in the previous war/his conflict with Kiritsugu -Ilya's connection to Shirou -Gilgamesh's existence -Rin/Sakura -Zouken's penis worms -The nature of the Grail
And I'm sure the list goes on. The pacing of Stay Night depends upon the reader not knowing the majority of these. Fate is the only proper introduction.
>>124408656 The fact that Zero has those spoilers is exactly why UBW was done first. Notice how nothing from UBW got covered there?
You have to look at things from their perspective after having made the Zero anime. Why should they adapt Fate? What is its purpose? It introduces you to Saber, the grail war system, Gil, Kirei, and all that stuff. Because of the way they chose to approach things, Fate would have required massive tweaking to be anything other than a retread of Zero's content.
>>124408858 For fuck's sake, F/SN is a linear narrative. Sure, you can pull UBW out from the middle of it and Frankenstein it together with F/Z, but it ends up having no meaning past the flashy fight scenes.
>>124408872 I do not care what ufotable does. I don't care how they do the adaptation; it's not my problem if a bunch of secondaries experience the story out of order.
The only thing I am saying is that you can't replace the Fate route with F/Z and still have a properly-paced work. You can't rearrange the three routes in F/SN, and you can't remove any of them, because they all build on each other very deliberately both in terms of world-building and in theme.
>>124396074 Even if you posted the exact same bait on this board for three years straight, someone will always just right onto the hook without fail.
It's the reason you'll always see the exact same shit again and again without fail every thread.
Fate threads are easy in terms of feeding trolls, people will always go along with it in just the right way like "Oooo, it must be those (other waifu/route lovers fags) that are different than the one I like, they're the ones causing the fuss for sure. I'll quickly tell them how shit they are" and it then takes on the same flare without fail.
Meanwhile nine out of ten times it's probably just some guy on neither side just trying to start shit to see the autists fight it out.
>>124409324 You're acting like the Fate route hasn't been adapted before. Nasu himself admits it's the most well known route, and has gotten plenty of exposure through DEEN and a manga that ran for six years.
>>124409709 The fuck are you on about? You're saying Fate is a story that can't be split up and builds off of each other, but Nasu himself admits the Fate route is already known, so the foundation is there. That means hopping to UBW works.
>>124409764 I don't know what the fuck you're trying to argue. I never said anything negative about the ufotable adaptation. Yes, given current circumstances, it would be strange to adapt Fate. UBW will be more successful than Fate would have been.
This does not change the fact that, yes, F/SN is a cohesive story made up of 3 routes, and F/Z is a prequel that is meant to be read after it and no sooner.
>>124394628 Emiya and Kiritsugu parallels maybe? I'm still expecting a special past episode for Emiya similar to the ones Kiritsugu got in FZ, especially since a lot of Rin's dreams haven't been covered properly.
>>124409884 I'm not disagreeing that Fate is one story done in multiple parts, but there are several circumstances that have factored into it getting cut up. The 2006 series is well known and popular, and it mostly followed the Fate route, Zero then got adapted by another company due to DEEN being a clusterfuck, which also covered stuff from Fate, which meant starting from the beginning again likely wouldn't have panned out too well.
People that want it to be Rin, you're kind of making the entire ending out to be a bit stupid. Rin is the one that now failed him in the past that led him to this path if that's what you want. Meaning you've just created a loop, she keeps failing him, he keeps becoming this. Not sure why you want that.
It's confirmed to be none of the main three girls, but Saber or Ilya are still "maybe" at best.
People when they get told why their original ideas are off, always try to play the "Nasu a hack, don't know shit" card. Gives them a free card to head-canon how they want, ignore what is said.
It's pretty much the only time when this is used. Even if Nasu directly said something is impossible, they'll just choose "Well he's contradicted himself before, so it's 300% possible". Even if most every time I see people talking about a contradictions its usually just them getting shit from the game wrong and being indignant about it. Like "Bullshit, Shirou is totally servant tier, Nasu's is a contradicting hack to say otherwise". Or "Bullshit, Nasu said Gilgamesh wasn't corrupted by the black mud, but he so was. What a hack", even though he wasn't corrupted by the mud at all which has held true entirely, but was instead corrupted by humanity. There's no contradiction there, he said it wasn't the mud, and it wasn't the mud.
It's why it feels like a meme more so than not, it's just used as an excuse more so to head-canon than not.
Rider's story will be told in the HF movies. Caster got an extended flashback ending. Berserker and Ilya got their extended flashback. Will Lancer get his half-episode flashback with Bazette right before he murder Kotomine? Or are they saving that for when they animated Ataraxia?
>>124394628 You are partially right and wrong: The bridge that connects it to Zero is mainly Kiritsugu's ideals and its implications to Shirou; on the other hand, its because it can better build its own story without things being too spoiled by Zero, in short, the UBW adaptation was done in a manner that you would have to watch Zero first before watching it. Just because its not as grimdark as Zero, it doesn't mean it loses its spirit.
>>124412942 Trust Ufotable to do that, if they managed to make up for Ilya's backstory, they will find a way to insert Lancer's and Bazette's first meeting. Bonus points if they show them in the building where Kayneth died.
>>124407604 Don't worry. Apparently some people didn't understand that the whole point of HF was a Shirou renouncing to become a super hero and even a hero like kiritsugu. Some people can't read. It's okay.
>>124416165 I doubt that. They're saying UBW is being kept "as is", despite some serious additional content being added in just the last two episodes, and a bit in the first season. Nasu would probably want some major restructuring with Fate.
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