If shirou was able to see kiritsugu's mystic code would he be able to trace it?
He'd be able to more or less recreate the shape and structure of the gun, but that's it. Even if he succeeded in replicating Kiritsugu's Mystic Code, it would be little more than an ordinary counterfeit Contender. He could try to replicate the Origin Bullets, but all he's be able to create are ordinary bullets at best.
Unlimited Blade Works is fundamentally limited to melee weapons. He can scan, analyze and store any bladed weapon.
No he can't.
With swords, Shirou can simply look at them once and he'll instantly have its information stored within his Reality Marble. He doesn't have that clairvoyance with anything else. It's limited solely to swords. Shirou's Projection doesn't work like it does with other Magi. When he recreates a weapon, what he's actually doing is "retrieving" it from Unlimited Blade Works. Things that aren't swords aren't stored there, so he needs to actually commit them to memory.
With anything other than swords, he'd need to directly analyze their structures using his structural analysis thaumaturgy (what he does when he fixes that heater at the beginning of Fate). And even if he does analyze it, it won't be stored within Unlimited Blade Works, so it'd require a bit more effort on his part to replicate it.
Regardless, even if he can recreate the Thompson Contender and bullets, he won't be able to replicate any thaumaturgical effects placed on them. He can replicate the Jeweled Sword Zelretch, but he won't be able to replicate Rin's mana-charged gems. He might be able to recreate the structure of the gem, but not the mana inside it.
Here's the main problem.
It'd be easy for him to analyze the composition and structure of the Thompson Contender. He'd just need to use that structural analysis thaumaturgy of his and scan it. But the thing is, all that would help him scan is the gun. Unless he understands the thaumaturgy used to forge the Mystic Code, he won't be able to replicate the "Mystic" part of it. It'll just be a normal bootleg gun. Same with the bullets. Even if he could analyze its structure, it's not like he can recreate the actual spell behind it. He shouldn't know anything about Origin-based thaumaturgy or any of Kiritsugu's craft, so he wouldn't be able to recreate any of it properly.
With swords, he doesn't really need to understand the fairy forging process. The necessary information is stored in his Reality Marble. It's like storing an image in his memory. When he uses projection to replicate a sword, he's basically superimposing that image onto reality. A computer doesn't have to understand the how or why, it merely has to have the data recorded in it in order to replicate it. Case in point, he was able to recreate the Jeweled Sword, but didn't know a thing about how it was made or how it worked.
But that only works with things stored in his Reality Marble. He can't store guns or bullets inside his Reality Marble, so he needs to actually understand what he's doing in order to replicate it. And if he could understand Kiritsugu's thaumaturgy well enough to replicate it, then he'd really have no need to recreate the Mystic Code at all. Plus, he wouldn't be able to use Kiritsugu's Origin Bullets anyway, since he doesn't share Kiritsugu's Origin. It's like how he wouldn't be able to use Fragarach due to not having any Fraga blood inside him.
That's not true. He is fascinated by swords, but he can project non bladed weapons as well, and in fact in Hollow Ataraxia he even projects a modern fishing rod.
If it could copy the original properties of Mystic Code or Origin Bullets is something I don't know, but considering the fact he was able to project Rho Aias I'd say he can.
Defensive armaments can be stored in Unlimited Blade Works. The cost is higher than it would be for a sword, but his Reality Marble can analyze and sore shields as well.
Take note: He can recreate anything so long as he understands the composition and structure. It doesn't need to be stored in his Reality Marble in order for him to do so. However, with things that aren't in his Reality Marble, it becomes more difficult. With swords, he can recreate not only its outer appearance, but its entire composition, the reason for its creation, its history, its past owners. Everything is recorded simply at a glance. But that doesn't work with things that aren't melee weapons or defensive armaments. With anything else, he'd need to analyze the object manually. Composition analysis thaumaturgy doesn't record information quite as thoroughly as his Reality Marble can. He can analyze the structure and composition, but he can't sympathize with it.
This is why his attempt to recreate Archer's bow in the Fate route failed. He didn't have a perfect record of the weapon inside him. He had to manually recreate it from memory, hence why it bore little resemblance to Archer's bow.
When Archer recreated those fishing rods, he didn't pull them out of Unlimited Blade Works. He recreated them from memory. Most likely, he thoroughly examined the rods somehow beforehand. Perhaps he owned them in life, or maybe he analyzed some rods in a fishing store on the sly.
It's not an asspull. Why do you think Unlimited Blade Works is filled with nothing but swords? Nasu even said that his shit's limited to melee weapons.
Shirou can't instantly analyze anything and everything he sees. His instant analysis has always been limited to melee armaments. This is all made abundantly clear not only by the VN, but by supplementary materials and creator interviews as well.
This is how Shirou's instant analysis works.
When Shirou sees a melee weapon, it's instantly stored in Unlimited Blade Works. Thus, he's able to draw data directly from that stored information. The reason he could immediately figure out what kind of Noble Phantasm Rule Breaker was is because it was recorded in Unlimited Blade Works the moment he saw it. He's drawing data directly from that record.
So if something isn't stored in Unlimited Blade Works, that means he can't immediately draw information on it.
Not if it has Mystery.
Read CM3. Pre-CM3 it was "only melee weapons but he can do other stuff, it's just harder", post-CM3 it's now "only swords and he needs to individually recreate each part of its existence in the most painstaking possible manner if he wants to do literally anything else". CM3 retconned a lot.
What he does with swords isn't even Projection in the first place.
Besides, he doesn't have his dad's origin, and the Mystic Code is a three-parter based off of the gun, the bullet, and Kerry's prana as a catalyst. Read the F/Z LN.
It wasn't exactly retconned. There actually aren't many instances of Shirou projecting anything other than stuff stored in his Reality Marble in Fate. His process for recreating non-swords is never actually delved into.
He could trace the Contender as a gun, but what makes it Kiritsugu's Mystic Code is the influence of Kiritsugu's Origin in the form of his powdered ribs in the bullets. He couldn't replicate that.
It's not really "copying the user's power".
Let's say Shirou traces Durandal. Shirou doesn't know how to use Durandal, he has no clue, but you know who does know how to use Durandal? Durandal.
Durandal "remembers" how to be used, it remembers how Roland swung it around. By virtue of Shirou tracing it, Durandal "moves based on its memories" and Shirou gets taken for the ride. As Durandal swings itself at the enemy and Shirou gets dragged along with it, tracing basically means that Shirou gets everything he needs to "use Durandal effectively", which in this case would be something similar to Roland's stats. Of course, his body will start tearing itself apart, but that's beside the point.
Basically it's less "Shirou knows how to use the sword and gets strong" and more "the sword does everything for him".
Actually, Gae Bolg probably is stored in there. He was able to instantly figure out that the one in Gil's fault was the real deal. He wouldn't be able to do that if it wasn't stored in his Reality Marble. Same with Rho Alas. He was able to project his own immediately after glimpsing it just once in the Rin route.
Unlimited Blade Works seems to accept anything so long as it's a melee armament. Come to think of it, it probably stored standards, too.
No yeah, that's why I called it a retcon. Before CM3 we were like "oh, it's melee weapons so he can have spears and stuff", but then CM3 said "yeah, it's only bladed weapons. Also Aias."
pre-CM3 was melee, post-CM3 was bladed. That's why CM3 retconned stuff in the VN, like the CG where EMIYA has spears and stuff projected.
Like I said, he instantly knew Gil's Gae Bolg was the real deal, even in the vanilla version. That would mean it got stored in Unlimited Blade Works the moment he saw it.
It wasn't so much a region as it was a minor correction.
When he traces a weapon he copies it down to the history of the weapon, even the number of times it's been swung.
Knowing the history of the weapon allows him to wield it properly.
if Gil knew shirou's element was swords
what would shirou do if he spammed polearms and other melee weapons that arent swords
>True threat of the pistol doesn't lie with the physical destructive power put into force by explosives and bullets, but custom "mystic bullets" (only twelve remaining). Bone powder extracted from Kiritsugu's own body is sealed in the core of the bullet tip and when fired and charged with Kiritsugu's Prana, it will smash Kiritsugu's magus "origin" ("severing" and "binding") into the target.
>The special bullets installed along with the gun in the case― in the core of the twelve remaining shots are sealed powdered bones from Kiritsugu himself. When Kiritsugu's prana is fired, these "magical bullets" forces into the target the 'origin' of the magus named Kiritsugu.
That wouldn't matter, Kerry's mystic code was a function of his mystic soul attribute thingy. Shirou doesn't have Cutting and Binding, he wouldn't be able to create the magical effect inherent in that.
I haven't played CCC, so all I know that he has in there besides weapons is Enkidu (the chains), wine, his (destroyed after the 4th war) plane thingy and fishing poles
True, Enkidu might have been useful inside UBW, but you can always make up the excuse that Gil wasn't able to think rationally while being rushed
There are plenty of ways Gil could have won the fight if he was being competent. He has original shields, he has original trapping components, thanks to Apo he should have the original of Astolfo's book that breaks RMs when you say its name, etc.
He was too enraged by "ONOREEEEE" to think straight, so he fell back to spamming weapons. Gil has a perfect load-out, GoB (especially with CCC being a thing) is ridiculously strong, compound that with his "See All the Gods Cannot" passive that CCC clarified is why he can do stuff like see through Lancy's FSG and automatically tell that Kojiro is a demon with a sword, and he's unfair as hell. He looks at you, then sees all your weaknesses and can pull out every counter you have to crush you completely.
The problem is that he's Gil, so he'll never do that. He'll just throw swords at you and laugh.
Well, except for CCC.
Is a gun a sword, OP?
No, put down your shitty copy of your shitty game. Gunblades are retarded and don't count.
No they are not. Guns are not swords so Shirou can't do the one trick Rin ponies onto. His magic is SWORDS. His core is SWORDS. His existance is SWORDS.
Now, would he be able to produce an IDEON (tm) BEAM SABER sword? That's debatable.
I dont think using Astolfo worked very well there, i doubt he even remembers to wear panties.
Reminder that Archer has weapons similar to EA that can destroy other reality marbles hidden some where in UBW.
Technically, Fate's Gilgamesh is a myth projection so anything linked to him could be considered a fake.
If Saber was nearby watching, would the effects of Avalon continuously regenerate Shirou's anus from the Unlimited Buttfuck Works he's getting, thus restoring his booty cherry?
Shirou turns all his children into seigi no mikatas, making them save even more people than he ever could
>that look of intense rage
This shit was literally worse than NTR. He was so helpless...
Fuck I could feel him so much. The little nigga just wants to be a hero, I guess this was a lesson that he can't save everyone... I really like his character. I don't know why everyone else hates him. He's not even a moralfag. He's just a selfless gentleman.
this scene reminded me of something
>Guts will never be summoned as a heroic Berserker spirit
Well, the anime does goes out of his way to make him look like an useless faggot, being unable to hear most of his inner thoughts doesn't help either. It's been a while since I read the VN, but I'm pretty sure that after yelling Gil to stop, Shirou jumps from the railing to confront him, but in the last episode Gil just fuck him with a sword.
Nobody but secondaries hate Shirou. He's atypically manly for a VN protagonist and even straight-up tells Rin he likes her. A pity there will never be cute, romantic scenes between them in the anime.
You will never see Shirou welcoming Rin home from work/Clocktower stuff with a hot meal and a kiss on the cheek. Househusband life best life.
There actually was a surprisinglywell written fanfic that has him summoned as Assassin, rather than Berserker, yet winding up taking care of Illya after killing Berserker. Probably because it was pretty short, but still, pretty good.
There are three types of people who hate Shirou.
The most common aren't even secondaries, they're just mindless cretins repeating memes: "shirou is dense!" or "Shirou is just a sexist idiot!" and so on. You see these types on /a/ more than anywhere else.
The next group is Zero-first secondaries. They typically hate Shirou because he's not Kiritsugu, and they see him as representing all the "flaws" with F/SN (namely that it's not relentlessly grim and melodramatic).
The last group are a minority, because it's made up of people who have read the source material yet for whatever reason don't like Shirou's character (strong suspicion that most of this type are butthurt Gil-fags).
My theory is that they're those people who get jealous of any MC because "HURR HE'S STEALING MUH WAIFU". It sounds retarded, petty, and juvenile, but it still happens. They can't identify with him, so they view him as competition for their 2D crush.
Seven fortress walls would dampen it pretty well, but it would most certainly batter them down and kill him anyway. It's not a thrown projectile, so the conceptual weapon does not activate.
Probably would be enough to let Excalibur bash through Enuma Elish, in parallel to the Excalibur/Rho Aias/Bellerophon clash.
>There will never be a route with lancer as an ally through the entire thing
I just want him to win a fight for once
He can also theoretically a blueprint of make anything he understands, so long he uses enough time and prana.
He can also make blue copies of things he does not understand, if he has enough time and mana, and the object to copy.
I.E: Zeldretch Dagger
The thing people forget about FZN and its magic system, is that rituals exists.
>he won't be able to replicate the "Mystic" part of it.
He can blue copy it. The problem is that he can not
1. Activate the Mystic Code
2. Understand it
Its like reading Uni level endgame math, when you have barely been taught arthemetics. You can copy what is on the blackboard, but you do not understand it.
UBW is a sliding scale of
1. Its a sword
2. Its not a sword
The more it goes away from 1, the more expensive it gets. Once you go into things that are very well not swords, I.E: Armor, it gets very difficult.
You all do know Shirou was never a popular character even when only the VN existed and there were no secondaries, right? On moonspeak threads it comes up fairly often how Shirou isn't a very charismatic character to begin with and how most normal readers would like Fate not not care that much for Shirou.
This idea that no one would possibly dislike Shirou if they just read the VN is full delusion.
I feel like an EMIYA vs Bazett fight would play out a bit like her fight with Saber. Instead of drawing out an Excalibur blast, she'd be waiting for Caladbolg, or Hrunting, or some other NP.
He wouldn't know anything about Fragarach until it's fired, since he can't see it as a weapon no matter how he looks at it when it's still the leaden sphere
Personally I don't dislike him as a character, but I feel like he's a poor perspective character. Chide about self inserts all you want, there are very good reasons for making a first person POV character someone relatable.
But stuff like caladbolg, hrunting and such are still trump cards, just not ones directly related to him.
Right, just EMIYA and Bazett, I'm rereading the scene with her and lancer and I was thinking that avenger would be there too
>there are very good reasons for making a first person POV character someone relatable
Are you retarded?
Shirous entire character was made because they wanted to show how fucked up and broken a person would have to be to be a hero of justice.
If Excalibur was a mace or an axe instead of a sword, would seiba still be a saber class servant? Is someones viability as a saber dependent upon their use of swords? If there was a hero who had no defining characteristics outside of using a club/axe would they be unsummonable because they don't "fit" into a class?
>In the prologue from Rin's perspective, Shirou's face wasn't shown. This was to show that Rin had no particular feelings towards him then.
I far prefer the way the anime does it as opposed to Shirou's monologues that beat you over the head with repetitive bullshit that doesn't even translate to his general personality.
Holy fucking shit I just read this and it was amazing. It captured the essence of Berserk and Guts as an individual. This is exactly what I fucking expected if there was a crossover.
>His lewdness is a great nightmare
>His anus is defenceless.
>It contracts every time I move, looking like a second reproductive opening.
>Emiya's Rho Aias.
>The dirtiest part of him is right in front of me.
I wish that bastard Miura would stop trying to fucking write and draw the manga all by himself. He needs an entire studio. That dude is fucking loaded and can totally afford it.
And why should I care about what the Japanese George Lucas thinks? He wrote a great character by accident and now that he wants to change him into something else he is ruining the entire story. Nasu shortcomings as an author gave us the F/SN that we know and love, changing things up just because it didn't turn out like he wanted is just turning it into complete trash. His success has gone to his head and now he thinks he is actually a good writer. People complain about Miura when it's clear that it's Nasu's incompetence that is the problem.
And again I'll remind you that Shirou was never a popular or well liked character even when only the VN existed.
People liked the idea of his story, sure, but that's the reason Archer is the one who became crazy popular, because to most people Archer is the more compelling portrayal of it. In moonspeak discussion most of the time when someone brings up complaints about Shirou not being very likable in the show it gets countered with "that's how it's always been" or "it's been that way for ten years now."
To be honest the show has probably made Shirou more popular that he's ever been. He's done way better in recent ufotable and newtype polls that he ever did in any others. inb4 japan has shit taste etc, etc, but unfortunately the Japanese market and the ideas of Japanese George Lucas are the only things that actually matter here.
> In moonspeak discussion most of the time when someone brings up complaints about Shirou not being very likable in the show it gets countered with "that's how it's always been" or "it's been that way for ten years now."
Actual evidence of this, please.
post you're roster for a new holy grail war.
Saber: A literal sword that possesses the Master (something like Muramasa maybe?)
Saber: Dante from the Divine Comedy
Lancer: I don't know, Longinius seems like a good choice
Rider: Genghis Khan
Caster: Morgan le Fay
Not bad at all. Although Cain trying to kill someone with an ass jaw would be to funny.
>Nasu literally admitting they intentionally made Saber prettier than Rin for the sake of wanking her even though it's the Rin Route
Holy fuck and people had the audacity to call people tinfoilers for seeing through this conspiracy
>The first time that the Unlimited blade works has been adapted
>I wanted them to do the saber route but everyone knows it, that's why it hasn't been animated for TV before
DEEN has been completely forgotten by them
His work covered grappling, knives, swords, and spears. The short spear was also a very popular knightly weapon at the time.
Muscle Wizard: Hercules
Everyone also has a top-tier mana battery Homunculus as a master.
That's hard to believe when Miura describes how he had a certain idea on how to approach Shirou's arc, but Nasu came in and told him "no Shirou doesn't grow or change and also he never smiles ever" which actually bewildered him at the time. Nasu goes into too much detail on his end to think he's just half-heartedly covering for Miura. He had a strong idea about Shirou's character he felt he didn't quite convey properly in the VN because it was so long and he felt bogged down by the need to entertain readers, and saw the anime as the chance to do it right.
To be honest, Nasu's talk about how Shirou should be was always there.
But it was portrayed in Archer's flashbacks of the person he was as a human instead of through Shirou directly, because again Nasu felt readers needed to be entertained by Shirou's POV. If anything he's just finally making things consistent.
What happens if you pour water into a cracked cup? It leaks out, right? That's what Sakura is, a defective vessel, where Illya is tight and pure so no drops of Angra can escape.
Reminder that Nasu said the DEEN anime was great. Don't listen to a single thing he says.
You can write off saying something as general as "it's great" as someone being polite.
You can't really do that with all this detail, talking specifically about what he felt he didn't do right in the VN, and describing how he actually went in and forcefully corrected the director's initial idea of Shirou's character.
Poseidon needs to be a Dio-tier villain in his backstory.
>You all do know Shirou was never a popular character
Popular compared to who? Saber? Archer? Yeah they're way more popular than him. But he wasn't disliked. Overall perception of him was positive, especially compared to, say, Shiki in Tsukihime.
>Candace of Meroë
>Ancient queen whose army was so fucking huge that Iskander himself retreated after just looking at it
>Wrote a war elephant that was fuckhuge even by their standard
I like it
That anon's full of shit. Shirou had always been the second most popular male Fate character until the Zero anime according to all the popularity polls typemoon conducted, and he still managed to place 12th in the 10th anniversary poll before the new UBW anime came out beating Ilya and Waver. Shirou may not be in the realm of the most popular characters like the heroines or Archer, but he's still popular all things considered.
All women no-genderbend edition here
Saber: Hervor (the one who got the Tyrfing sword)
Archer: Nusaybah bint Ka'ab (early turned Muslim, Mohammed himself said that there was no man comparable to her and some sources say she used a bow)
Lancer: Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba (African ruler who fought those pesky whities)
Assassin: Mochizuki Chiyome (female ninja and leader of an organization of female ninja/spies)
Caster: Deborah (From the book of the Judges)
Rider: Artemisia I of Caria (the real one, not the 300 sequel version)
Berserker: Tomyris (Iranian ruler, went to kill Cyrus the Great in revenge for her son's suicide when he got captured)