>Gender Bender series
>Boy turns info girl
>Retains none of his masculinity
>Starts liking boys
This is why I like Ranma
What's the point of the transformation if the MC is completely unchanged? It's the equivalent of the MC just wearing a disguise.
And Mai isn't entirely feminine. E.g. she doesn't care much about clothes and os bretty valiant and skilled in combat.
>implying you wouldn't become a total cock-craving slut if you were suddenly turned into a girl
Don't let the shiposters get to you Maiolev.
>What's the point of the transformation if the MC is completely unchanged? It's the equivalent of the MC just wearing a disguise.
I could throw that back at you and ask what's the point of the transformation if the MC is completely changed? It's the equivalent of the MC just being a different gender from the start.
If that was your plan then I'm afraid it has failed. I'm not angry. If anything I pity you for not being able to understand Mai's perfection.
Can you provide an example of a series where the MC is completely changed? Even in series where the MC changes it is a gradual process and doesn't result in a complete overwriting of their personality.
Kampfer, Ranma and Ore Twintail are all primarily harem series (as well as comedy, martial arts parody and tokusatsu parody respectively). As a result the genderbending added in to provide added fanservice (either in the form of an extra set of tits, voyerism as the MC goes into baths or changing rooms or in placing the MC in lesbian situations). Genderbending is very much a secondary element and having the MC show changes in behavior or sexuality would probably alienate the main target audience.
Kashimashi was different to an extent, as it had a love triangle, however its MC didn't mentally change either. Though in this case it was because Hazuki had been more feminine as a man than the women in the series.
Nope, closet gays who think becoming a girl makes their liking guys okay. When in fact it was okay all along, but they're too much of a faggot in the 4chan sense to accept they're a faggot in the wanting another guy to fuck them sense.
>Gender Bender series
Except Ranma is a martial arts/harem show first and gender bender series second.
It's like saying you don't like the clichés in the Gundam franchise because you like G Gundam. That's an outlier, not the norm.
Why does that change have to come from the transformation itself? Why can't changes be based in the differences in how society treats the character and her reaction to it while the character retains the core self? This would be a more interesting story than "lel u gurl nao u liek cox!"
I don't really want to open that can of worms again, but suffice it to say that the brain is sexually dimorphic and sexual orientation is principally rooted in brain structure. Therefore if a character fully transforms into a girl and ends up with a heterosexual female brain, then it would make sense for her behaviour to be altered and for her to start being attracted to men. I'm not saying that the character's sexual orientation would necessarily have to change as a result of a transformation (after all one could imagine a character ending up with what would effectively a lesbian brain), but the idea that it could happen seems plausible enough.
>Why can't changes be based in the differences in how society treats the character and her reaction to it while the character retains the core self?
What are "Ame Nochi Hare" and "Osanajimi Onnanoko Ni Naare"?
>When in Michael Keikaku did that happen? I only remember MtF transformations.
I was thinking of the
I guess a better example would be the one by the author Nana & Kaoru where both a guy and a girl end up switching genders and fall in love with each other
>Therefore if a character fully transforms into a girl and ends up with a heterosexual female brain, then it would make sense for her behaviour to be altered and for her to start being attracted to men.
You're literally saying if the change makes the character like guys it makes sense the character likes guys. No shit. However, I take issue with it making sense in the first place. While the brain is sexually dimorphic, if you make changes to it on that level, you're effectively rewriting the character completely, and the result shouldn't be mostly the same except liking girls now. It makes more sense that the changes to the brain are more along the lines of "a female brain with the necessary structure to allow the character's personality to remain the same as male."
I'm not sure exactly, but sexuality would be included in that.
I don't think either of them fit. The latter especially, Iori is transformed into Shuuichi's perfect girl, which includes things like being bad at sports and good at cooking while male Iori is the opposite. Honestly, the story doesn't make sense unless Shuuichi's perfect girl is one who was transformed from a boy and doesn't like being a girl despite being really feminine. Which I suppose is totally possible, but it is a gag manga so I don't think about it when reading.
Another example is Boy Meets Girl Girl Meets Boy where there is a similar transformation. Nyotai-ka has the main couple switch sexes at times as well.
We are talking about something biologically impossible, so I think it's hard to make pronouncements either way about how much a character's personality would change if their brain transformed from a female to a male one.
>"a female brain with the necessary structure to allow the character's personality to remain the same as male."
That's what I assume happens in such a situation. I'm not claiming that the character should have no mental changes except suddenly lusting for cocks. But I don't think that the character should be radically altered either.
Except the change is mostly gradual and the ex-guy has to come to terms with his feelings as a girl, which is pretty much 99% of the reason to watch genderbending.
I mean if you're not watching it for one person slowly getting used to living as the opposite gender, why the hell would you watch it? Do you just want an excuse for yuri or what?
Why? They still have their memories and presumably their personality is mostly the same. If anything, they're more similar to one another than say the 5 year-old and 50 year-old version of a person.
Not really. The hormones changing is one thing, you'll react differently, but you still have every single memory from beforehand, and most of your personality is shaped by your environment and past experiences, not genetics.
Sure the future masculine "you" will be different from the future feminine "you", because the moment you changed, even though you retained your personality you will start acting and reacting differently to your environment, leading to different experiences.
>The latter especially, Iori is transformed into Shuuichi's perfect girl, which includes things like being bad at sports and good at cooking while male Iori is the opposite. Honestly, the story doesn't make sense unless Shuuichi's perfect girl is one who was transformed from a boy and doesn't like being a girl despite being really feminine. Which I suppose is totally possible, but it is a gag manga so I don't think about it when reading.
My point is rather that you can look at it from the focus not of Iori's body but how people treat him in female mode and how he adapts to the situations the transformation forces him to go through.
Iori is not a willing subject and doesn't just accept his "destiny" to become his childhood friend's girlfriend and fights it whenever he can, but he'll still play the female role when he feels okay about making an exception (chapter with the little girl, sports chapter, nursing chapter, etc)
And yes, it's a gag manga, but hey you take what you can get.
Also, why don't you like Ame Nochi Hare?
>While the brain is sexually dimorphic, if you make changes to it on that level, you're effectively rewriting the character completely, and the result shouldn't be mostly the same except liking girls now. It makes more sense that the changes to the brain are more along the lines of "a female brain with the necessary structure to allow the character's personality to remain the same as male."
Dude, a lot of the times these transformations involve magic, it's not exactly unreasonable to assume they might also magically rewrite behavioural and personality patterns including sexuality.
And besides, if you take a more serious approach it basically becomes a pretty depressing story (picture kinda related) goes pretty close into /lgbt/ territory, something I tend to want to avoid when reading (comparatively) lighthearted genderbender stories.
If that's what you prefer then fair enough. I'm not criticizing your tastes. I only said that a character undergoing mental changes stemming from such a transformation seems pretty plausible.
And there are a number of manga series where the MC doesn't really appear to undergo mental changes, so such series are pretty common. From full-time transformations there's Asuka Hybrid, Ichinensei ni Nacchattara, Joshi Shougakusei Hajimemashita, Kashimashi, Tsukiyo no Fromage and Panikuru Iko-san. And the same applies to almost all manga where the MC can switch forms; E.g. Adolescence Avatar, Gacha Gacha Secret, Kampfer, Okitsune-sama de Chu, Ore Twintail, Ranma, Sai Taker, Saikyou Mahou Shoujo Akira.
>And the same applies to almost all manga where the MC can switch forms
Different anon but I don't really place that under the same category, in that case changing gender is like changing your wardrobe, you can choose what gender you prefer to be based on occasion and your personal mood (also surprised not to see Futaba-kun Change there though that one is a bit more ambiguous at times, which I guess works well enough for Futaba itself)
Yes. While Futaba only appears to be attracted to women, I think that she was mentally effected by the changes at least to some extent. E.g. feeling happy that men find her attractive even if she isn't interested in them.
And I forgot my pic.
Also, it's always a shame that the best girl in those shows is always the guy.
They always seem like those always would also be the most interesting subjects for getting stuck as a girl (going from suddenly having a harem of girls to having a harem of girls and guys... ToLoveRu really seemed like a waste in that regard at times. Same for Kämpfer's potential if Natsuru wasn't so damn dense)
Mai and Cajun playable when? Shiori can come,too.
In gender benders, I think part of the problem is that there isn't much to the protagonist besides "I got turned into a girl" (because it's always a boy into a girl). You generally get two varieties:
1. The hero was a manly man who wanted to be the manliest man to ever be a man. But now he's a girl, makes futile attempts to act manly, but now the hormones say otherwise and he acts girly.
2. The hero was already the girliest man on the planet and his new life is now exactly the same except for all the perverts looking at him and he falls for his former friend.
Ranma works because as someone points out that the gender bender is just a part of the series. There's way more to Ranma than just that. If your only character traits are related to the change, then that's not much of a character.
That seems like a popular question. My guess is that Mai will be playable in BB4, but I have great doubts about Kajun and Shiori.
>Yes. While Futaba only appears to be attracted to women, I think that she was mentally effected by the changes at least to some extent. E.g. feeling happy that men find her attractive even if she isn't interested in them.
Yeah, same goes for the rest of his family to some degree, Futana was both a womanizer and a vixen depending in which body she decided to have a nice out and the father could both be a "great dad" while knowing how to be a MILF aswell.
Futaba basically has that running in him aswell, even if he is still more confortable as a guy most of the time, he learns to deal with his biological situation of flipping genders.
>If Rito got stuck as Riko she'd just get tail raped all the time.
You say that as if it was a bad thing
>If Rito got stuck as Riko she'd just get tail raped all the time.
Pretty sure that would be an improvement nobody would object to
>the misterious annoying girl is now classmate
Well, there you freaking go. Why would you want no conflict in your story?
Either the person adapts, or struggles. Ranma had absolutely no issues, never question him/herself. Ranma as a character is boring, because he/she does not act like a normal human being would.
Ranma had barely a month before he returned from his trip in China. Besides his initial reaction, the only thing I can think of is his overbearing machismo, although I blame that to his upbringing and probable homosexuality.
To be honest I find harems to be a pretty poor genre in general. The need to maintain the status quo leads to stasis and contrived excuses for maintaining it. And I think that having the female version of a character being instantly desirable to everyone around her regardless of sex is also pretty dumb.
Sure, those are two cliches, but that isn't always the case. From series with permanent transformations I'd say that the following had MCs that were neither macho nor girly: Artificial Maiden, Kanojo ni Naru Hi Another, Ichinensei ni Nacchattara, Joshi Shougakusei Hajimemashita, Megu Milk, Remix Heart and Sekainohate de Aimashou and Tsukiyo no Fromage.
I liked the switch in twgok. It was like he wasnt changed and knew better but his new female constitution fails him. Also when he makes the lunch bad on purpose to seduce the girl in his body.
I just wish in one harem manga/show the dude would get a boner. Like, ever.
Not specifically because I want to see cock, but it'd just be nice to see a writer actually acknowledge that it's possible to hare a protagonist who isn't an asexual master of self-control who never once does anything towards the rest of the cast.
It would actually be interesting to see a show that isn't "MC a complete blank slate, we all just watch for the girls."
>Sure, those are two cliches, but that isn't always the case
I admit, I'm being a bit biased based more on the few works I've seen. I think I've been exposed to too many porn-based, or at least ecchi-based, gender benders, where the plot usually boils down to "I was a guy, now I'm not, and I can't stop craving my friend's cock."
I do appreciate the list (and I've wanted to read Remix Heart but I feel like I need to play a little Blazblue first to get a feel for the world).
Your brain definitely changes. Transgender people who go through hormonal treatment change to a whole different personality over time.
Imagine what would happen if EVERYTHING changed?
>Implying that /a/nons aren't cock-craving sluts just because they're male.
>Not specifically because I want to see cock, but it'd just be nice to see a writer actually acknowledge that it's possible to hare a protagonist who isn't an asexual master of self-control who never once does anything towards the rest of the cast.
That's what nose bleeds are for. They're a stand in for erections.
I'm actually fine with MC's with self-control. I would in fact prefer it to a harem-lead who is capable of saying "That is incredibly hot, but I can hold myself back."
I think the problem with this is that would lead to the MC essentially making his intentions clear, stating that he already has someone he likes, or at least that he's not interested in someone despite their boner-inducing appearance, and that kind of causes most harem stories to crumble.
Agreed with your description. Though of course since he's inexperienced Futaba sometimes messes up.
Ranma is in the end a gag manga and all the characters within it are caricatures. If one looked for character development and introspection they'd be wrong to do so. If anything, most of them would be classified as psychotic if they were taken seriously. But I agree that this means that Ranma is not really good as a genderbender series since it doesn't really try to be one.
The brains of homosexuals have certain similarities to heterosexual brains of the opposite sex, bit they are not the same. Besides, why would one necessarily end up as a lesbian?
True. The majority of eromanga or doujinshi do go along the lines of "guy gets turned into girl, immediately forcefully receives dicks, falls in love with cocks and decides to stay a girl". But to be fair, the majority of eromanga in general probably involve girls being fucked against their will until they lose to the dick. It's just that genderbender eromanga are a small subset of porn and thus the fact that other scenarios form a minority is much more obvious.
>Gender bending is involved
>Character has the exact same hair cut or just a longer/shorter version of the other gender
Pic fucking unrelated and one of the few cases I've seen this shit done right
>Would gender bending even change your brain? Lesbians are wired like males and gays like females.
It's magic, anything goes.
>To be honest I find harems to be a pretty poor genre in general. The need to maintain the status quo leads to stasis and contrived excuses for maintaining it. And I think that having the female version of a character being instantly desirable to everyone around her regardless of sex is also pretty dumb.
I normally dislike harems to be honest, the ones I have enjoyed tend to be the exception (like Isekai) and those I enjoy tend to be leaning towards a Harem end.
Either way, as said a bunch of times, a lot of times the ones where they can freely change are a harem show first and a gender bender show second (or in the case of ToLoveRu just one-off chapters, good for fanservice but with little consequence).
>I liked the switch in twgok. It was like he wasnt changed and knew better but his new female constitution fails him. Also when he makes the lunch bad on purpose to seduce the girl in his body.
I absolutely loved that mini-arc. The follow-up was also tons of fun, albeit for different reasons.
What do you mean? You hate it when the character's hair changes or when it doesn't change?
A male and female version of the same person would be 98% genetically identical. It's not some random person.
You know my main problem with these is the rapist is often, though not always, the one who turns the guy into a girl in the first place but very rarely receives any karmic punishment. The ones that end with the rapist turning into a girl himself and the rapee getting revenge are better.
>Pic fucking unrelated and one of the few cases I've seen this shit done right
Don't forget Haruhi's Kyonko or Black Lagoon's omake with everyone switched (even the twins)
Remix Heart is a prequel centering on the school life of a group of female characters from the franchise. Since it takes place before the games, you don't really need to know about them to follow its story. Though there are some in-jokes and cameos that you'll admittedly miss.
Here are links for the manga in case you don't already have it:
Thanks, I've already downloaded it, but I appreciate the effort. I was thinking I should at least still play the games for a bit more background, to get a feel for the series though I have been told the story is kind of batshit anyway.
>Well think of it this way, if they took your memories and implanted them into some random girl, would that girl be you?
Let me give you a counter example, if you woke up tomorrow as a girl and everyone and their mother remembered you as always having been a girl, how would you react?
you have a brother who is basically you before you were switched, but you didn't have a sister to switch bodies with, let alone a twin sister
Sure. Familiarizing yourself with the games will provide you with more information about the personalities of some of the characters.
Well yes. That was my point.
"Genre: 2D Fighting + Visual Novel"
BB is classified as a VN as well.
Well, of course I would believe that I was the same person. But the question is, what happened to the me that existed before I was turned into a girl? Does his subjective viewpoint really extend into the girl version of himself? Or does he stop existing when the girl comes into existence?
A terrifying possibility, thus I will refrain from any gender bending antics until this is researched further.
>What do you mean? You hate it when the character's hair changes or when it doesn't change?
Not him but I assume he means "lazy rule63 designs" where the girl version and the male version look almost identical and have only minor differences like different hair length/body height.
While I understand where he comes from, I don't think that's not always a bad design choice.
Still, it's always much more interesting to see an overhaul on how a certain character would dress/act/etc if they became female (or if it used to be a girl, if they became male).
You'd assume they might take the chance to redesign their whole persona (after the shock wears off) or if it is a situation where they "always were a girl" they would already have taken pretty different style choices during their lives.
I think it's really a situational thing. Like in the case of Link you showed here, Link is Link. He's already pretty androgynous and the clothing works fine on a guy or a girl. But yes, if a character was a hulking quarterback and suddenly you changed it so he had always been a girl, then it's likely they would not dress the same or even look remotely similar.
How often does the opposite even happen, outside of hentai?
Are there any anime out there (porn OVAs don't count), where the guy turns into a girl, slowly becomes girly, and eventually falls in love and starts dating a guy?
The Y chromosome is 59 Mb. The human genome is 3300 Mb. That gives us 1.79%. I had merely rounded up to 2%.
Don't most characters have differences in body types after a transformation though (with the exception of traps)? And I think that similarities in appearance are a good thing since they emphasize that it's the same individual. I don't like it is the genderwapped version is radically different.
>That depends on if their memories of me include my current personality or not.
>But the question is, what happened to the me that existed before I was turned into a girl? Does his subjective viewpoint really extend into the girl version of himself? Or does he stop existing when the girl comes into existence?
You mean "boy-you" (the one that lived in a reality where you were a guy) now living in the female body or "girl-you" who suddenly has memories of having been a guy?
In this case, the scenario is that boy-you has waken up in a reality that collapsed around the fact he always was a girl, but his memories tell him otherwise.
Possibly in a Groundhog Day/Endless Eight manner until you accept your new position as a girl
>Probably assume I was insane, since that seems like a more plausible explanation than a magical transformation.
While that is the logical conclusion, you still have to deal with that fact on a day to day basis.
Also, we are talking about anime/manga/vidya here, there may or may not magic/reality-warping hinjinks involved
There is no anime with what you describe. However the following genderbending series do have the MC start being attracted to the now opposite sex: Artificial Maiden, Boku Girl, Boy Meets Girl Girl Meets Boy, Idol Pretender, Kanojo ni Naru Hi Another, Mao Marimo, Megu Milk, Nozomu Nozomi, Remix Heart and Sekainohate de Aimashou.