>>133104960 God Hand can be ignored through A rank STR. The thing, is Heracles is bullshit and can tell when a blow will fuck him up, even while insane. It will basically turn into a battle of attrition as Lancelot slowly shaves away at Herc, while having to pick up a new weapon every time God Hand becomes immune to the last.
Being a Berserker simply sealed away his swordsmanship and talking ability but his thinking ability was still pretty sane.
That is why Berserker had the ability to feel impressed by Archer's swordsmanship and even felt regret that he got summoned as a Berserker because he was unable to show his true swordsmanship to Archer.
>>133105216 While that anon was indeed wrong in that matter, Berserk Lancelot is pretty smart too. But yea, Lancelot cant take enough weapons to defeat Berserker. His best bet would be to kill him at least once and get that tiny gap of time to kill Herc master. Even like that, its still pretty difficult for him.
>>133104687 Heracles has amazing compatibility against Lancelot, but overall Lancelot is the strongest servant. He can completely shut down Gil's GoB and is one of the only servants that can solo him if he has a competent master.
>>133105831 One, Lancelot could not solo Gilgamesh. Second of all, being able to counter one specific Servant does not translate to higher power overall. >>133105116 Lancelot's power is the ability to make any weapon he's holding count as his noble phantasm. So he has as many weapons as there are objects in the environment.
All in all, Herc would destroy Lancelot in most situations.
>>133105968 >Lancelot could not solo Gilgamesh Citation needed. >being able to counter one specific Servant does not translate to higher power overall Being able to kill the strongest servant does. Add the amazing stats and abilities into the mix and you got yourself a way better Berserker than Herc.
>>133106115 He couldn't. Lancelot could counter Gate of Babylon insofar as he could steal weapons out of it that were launched at him, but that doesn't change the massive power gap between him and Gil.
And no it doesn't. Being able to kill someone way stronger then you by exploiting their weakness doesn't make you stronger then them. Hercules is far more powerful then Lancelot, and would Loki his ass the second they got into melee range.
Which one is the strongest? Counters are a thing, just because you can beat Gil doesn't make you the strongest servant.
Also its very clear that the point at which Gil was forced to stop firing at Lancelot was the limit of his ability to defend himself from that attack. That he could do it at all was the impressive part, especially up to that level, but the next wave was going to annihilate him.
>>133106169 >massive power gap between him and Gil Lancelot is stronger in almost every single stat. >Being able to kill someone way stronger then you by exploiting their weakness doesn't make you stronger then them Yes it does. The ability to exploit enemy weaknsesses counts towards one's strength. If you win, then you're the strongest, results are all that matters.
>>133104960 >>133105075 Everything he uses KoH on is always rank C, Herc cant be scratched by anything below A rank, only Arondight would be able to hurt him, please know what you're talking about vefore trying to post a reply
>>133106496 No he doesn't. Knight of Honor is not a counter on part with say, Unlimited Blade Works. It makes Lancelot able to block Gate with some degree of success, it does not shut down Gilgamesh completely like UBW does.
Once the swordspam gets crazy enough, Lance would go down like a bitch.
>>133106556 >it does not shut down Gilgamesh completely like UBW does. >Once the swordspam gets crazy enough, Lance would go down like a bitch Citation needed. If that were true Lancelot wouldn't have lived to fight Saber.
>>133106564 >Lancelot has 2 hands. And A+ agility. He probably can grab and drop NPs faster than Gil can fire them.
>>133106584 Irrelevant,as arondight is literally the only thing that could let him do anything to herc >>133106496 The only that has survived a full head on GoB barrage is true archer, and he himself is quite bullshit, Lancelot has NOTHING that could let him survive a full onslaught of weapons
>>133105216 He was. Ilya purposely made him have no reason due to the strain he put on her. He only regains that reason due to having so many lives shaved away.
>>133105265 He doesn't need to? God Hand can be bypassed just from the wielder having A rank STR. The problem is Lancelot would still need to land 12 fatal blows against an opponent that won't let him before his Master dries up.
>>133106670 There is no citation needed, Gilgamesh is a far stronger Servant then Lancelot is. Knight of Honor makes everything that it uses C rank, unless Unlimited Blade Works that makes it one rank lower then normal. This makes Unlimited Blade Works better at repurposing Noble Phantasms.
Not only this, but Unlimited Blade Works also makes all of your weapons instantly deployed, which is what let Shirou overwhelm Gil in the first place. Lancelot has to wait till Gil has already fired a noble phantasm to grab it and use it with Knight of Honor, by definition it is slower then Gate of Babylon, and the increase in rate of fire is the only thing that let Shirou beat Gil.
Gil would fucking destroy Lancelot. The entire time they were fighting Lancelot was on the defensive, both times they fought. Blowing up Virmana was the closest he came to laying a scratch on Gil. Meanwhile Shirou was pushing Gilgamesh back the MOMENT they stepped foot in UBW.
>>133106805 Lancelot speedblitzes Gil. The sword rain is overrated, most servants can dodge or deflect a lot of it, if you add Knight of Honor it only turns into a minor nuance. Lancelot didn't recieve a single scratch from Gil's rain in Zero, go figure.
>>133106884 >the barrage was much, much smaller than the one thrown at true archer Citation needed. The VN didn't give us the amount fired, and in the UBW anime he opened the Gate to the max. Anyways, firing more NPs won't do shit against UBW, the copies are free once they are inside.
>>133106962 >>133106917 The sword rate is not overrated, it is canonically one of the strongest Noble Phantasms, and under normal circumstances Gil is as strong as roughly five servants. Specialized noble phantasms are one of the only things that can defeat Gil, and even those depend on his not going all out immediately.
Unlimited Blade Works, combined with Shirou being so unassuming, is the only way he was able to win.
Using a literally invincible shield and hitting Gil with the [second] strongest sword EVER, full power, at point blank range, is the only reason Saber did it.
The idea that some no-name Berserker could do it with a C-Ranked Noble Phantasm generator is just asinine.
>>133106968 >Even Cu Chulainn couldn't just stall Gil indefinitely He doesn't have A+ agility, and Protection from Arrows only works when he sees the projectile coming, he can be sniped from behind just fine.
>>133107070 That hardly matters. He has A rank agility, according to the [admittedly pretty meaningless] Parameter rules thats like 50 times faster then a normal human, breaking the damn sound barrier, and yet that, AND Protection from Arrows didn't let him get into melee range with Gil despite trying to for like half a day.
>Protection from Arrows only works when he sees the projectile coming
I love the sheer cognitive dissonance of you posting this while claiming that Lancelot can catch projectiles from 360 despite having neither Protection from Arrows nor any other of the danger sense skills.
>>133107141 >Saber uses an invincible shield that perfectly counters Ea and only wins because her attack name is shorter. >Shirou has the ultimate hard defense against Gilgamesh and still only wins because Gil goes easy and the Grail and Archer intervene.
But no, Lancelot is so cool with all his C-Ranked phantasms. >>133107146 This, they fought for like twelve hours, and Lancer has a one-hit-kill power. If he'd have gotten into melee range, he would have won.
>>133107259 >Lancer has a one-hit-kill power. If he'd have gotten into melee range, he would have won. E rank luck vs. A, nuff said. And there's also the possibility tha Gil has a counter for GB in the gate.
>>133107309 You go read it. You have made it pretty clear already that you just read the wiki and don't actually have the novel to quote. Come back when you start practicing what you preach, hypocrite faggot.
>>133106691 >God Hand can be bypassed just from the wielder having A rank STR. The problem is Lancelot would still need to land 12 fatal blows against an opponent that won't let him before his Master dries up.
Godhand grows resistant to whatever bypasses it after it regenerates. The only way to hack off more than one life with one blow is if it's strong enough to cause several lives' worth of damage at once. Lancelot at best could kill him once and then be left there holding his dick because he has no other attacks besides stabbing him with his sword.
>Shouting the unreasonable, Gilgamesh fired countless noble phantasms from the Gate of Babylon opening behind him. It seemed that this rain of blades mixed with high rank noble phantasms would leave nothing remaining of Archer. But he waved the bow he was holding with his left hand and knocked aside the noble phantasms that had been fired at a speed that defied the common sense of heroic spirits. “What?” “…” The Heroic Spirit who deflected dozens of noble phantasms without a scratch silently held out his hand towards Gilgamesh. And then, he turned it over palm side up and curled his fingers back and forth, beckoning for Gilgamesh to come. Gilgamesh narrowed his eyes and had his voice reverberate over the hill with a voice of restrained rage. “I see that you have nimble fingers. Then….how about this?”
>>133107500 >It's counterable, but Gil just hasn't got the speed to pull out whatever counter he has.
Seriously, is your whole argument that Lancelot could charge at Gil, through the sword barrage nobody ever got through, not die, and all so fast that Gil wouldn't be able to react? The only person who ever managed to run up to Gil and stab him were Saber and Shirou. Saber's whole fucking battle was about baiting him into an attack that she knew would leave him wide open if she tanked it, and Shirou simply could neutralize GoB and actually get on melee before he realized that he was at all dangerous.
>>133107608 >Gilgamesh put on a malicious smile and deployed the Gate of Babylon over a large area around the hill. Deployed over all sides around Archer, the entrance to his vault began to undulate like a tornado. Suddenly, innumerous noble phantasms were blasted out with the momentum of a machine gun, creating a tornado of light and impact high above the hill. Dozens, hundreds, thousands of noble phantasms came raining down onto the man standing in the center of the tornado. At times, they were blades, at times they were knowledge, at times they were pain, at times they were knowledge. There had been a long sword that slayed an oriental dragon. There had been a demonic sword that brought ruin. There had been a spear that killed heroes. There had been lightning without form. The originals of all the noble phantasms humanity had obtained or created were propelled unsparingly. A hellish rain spun by mankind was fired in all directions in 360 degrees. Tine seeing the amazing sight had imagined that not even chunks of flesh would remain of Archer. But once the tornado settled, a spectacle that betrayed Gilgamesh and Tine’s expectations greeted them. In it was Archer, still uninjured, brushing off the dust from the long piece of cloth covering his body, and around him, piles of innumerous noble phantasms. “It can’t be…” said Tine, her eyes bulging in disbelief, but Gilgamesh ignored her and looked at his foe. For some time, silence dominated the hill, but that was soon broken by Archer’s chuckling. ”Heh….hehheh…..hgh….ha…hahaha…” An obviously mocking voice emerged from behind the cloth. “What is so amusing?” asked Gilgamesh with a blank expression, to which Archer replied back, saying very clearly: “Weak.”
>>133107562 That doesnt mean GB is dependant on luck, luck lets you do normally impossible stuff, like avoiding gaeshi, are you retarded?
>>133107549 >if Lancelot stops blocking the swordspam for a second, he's dead You're overhyping the swordspam. UBW does the same and it's considered only an annoyance against most servants. He can simply run and deflect at the same time. He does have the sword skills and stats for that.
Lancelot fans are insufferable. It is literally said in omniscient narration that had Gil fired his next volley he would have won. Even the next volley wasn't the full power of GOB. By arguing for Lancelot you're making it clear you're a secondary or a troll. Even UBW cannot defeat a serious Gilgamesh even if it counters GOB completely. Why would you even think that Lancelot has even a remote chance when he's worse off against Gil?
>>133107693 >He can simply run and deflect at the same time.
No, he fucking can't you moron. The guy with the skill meant for that couldn't even do it. The writer who wrote the guy you're fanwanking over flat out said none of the other Servants in the 4th could beat him.
NOBODY has ever run up to Gilgamesh through GoB's barrage. A full-powered Heracles with the ability to sense danger intuitively couldn't do it, and he had time to die 12 times in the meantime.
>>133107879 He said 4th Lancer could possibly win, as in not 0%, not that he has any realistic chance. Even that was mostly about letting Gil kill most of them, hoping someone kills Gil, and spamming curse wounds on that guy. It requires a ton of luck to pull off, something we all know Deermud doesn't have. Having a retarded master and an ultra-chivalrous attitude doesn't help either.
>>133108497 Plan is over, you already resorted to shitposting because all your "arguments", backed by no quotes by the way, were refuted. Now it's just me enjoying my victory and teasing you to my heart's content, BABY.
>>133108589 Realistically, all servants would have a chance at winning. If everything went their way and luck was on their side. Just because Diarmuid was the only one mentioned does not mean the others could not have won too.
>>133106512 >Everything he uses KoH on is always rank C Lol no. That's only shit he picks up with no inherent power, like the lightpole he used against Saber. If he uses mundane objects like a stick or a Jet, it's C rank, any NP he steals keeps it's original ranking.
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