>>133117734 >>133117607 If nothing else,Code Geass is the most entertaining anime he as made. Which was more than half of the point behind the project, to be honest, if you read early and late interviews with the man.
>>133118184 what bothers me is WHY the writers had euphie go nuts. it's like they knew all those people had to die so the whole rebellion could move on, but you can't really have the main character straight up order a massacre of innocent people because that would make people hate lelouch. so their ingenious plan was to have lelouch accept euphie's plan and accidentally use his geass to order a massacre. it's shitty writing and a pansy cop out.
>>133119959 Oh please. You're taking it too seriously. They just thought, and were correct, that doing it this way would be more amusing.
For that matter, Lelouch wasn't willing to order a massacre at that point, but he did in fact knowingly kill Euphemia and took advantage of the chaos, so you shouldn't pretend they made him innocent. Quite the opposite, really.
Besides, Lelouch using Geass to make other people act out of character was already a thing and part of what he did want to do with Euphemia before that scene. Having him accept her plan was, honestly speaking, a red herring.You rewatch that episode, and the one before it, and you realize that wasn't being presented as a true solution.
>>133128575 The show was always full of over-the-top and contrived events, so suddenly complaining about this one strikes me as not paying attention.
The second statement is also flawed. One, Lelouch had the Geass eye permanently on the whole time afterwards. It was simply covered up with a contact lens. There wasn't another way to escalate the power. Two, his other eye does activate fully during Ragnarok, which is the equivalent of "losing control" in that context.
There was plenty of stuff set up for her failing, including but not limited to the episode title as well as Lelouch's whole attitude of hating on her plan and Schneizel being happy it kept the Elevens rebellion down. Assuming the ominous musical cues weren't enough for you.
So it was contrivance. His Geass just so happens to lose control at the exact same moment he made a bad joke.
>Two, his other eye does activate fully during Ragnarok, which is the equivalent of "losing control" in that context. Its not, this is just you defending bad writing.
>There was plenty of stuff set up for her failing, There isn't
WOW THE EXACT SAME EPISODE IN WHICH SHE DIES IS A HINT THAT HER PLAN WOULDN'T WORK. >Lelouch's whole attitude of hating on her plan
Because it would interfere with his plan not because he thought it wouldn't work you're also forgetting the fact that he give in to the end so what you wrote is pointless.
>Schneizel being happy it kept the Elevens rebellion down. This is also nothing. The Britannians wanted to bring down Zero's influence over them and they did this by making Suzaku a knight and having Euphie approve of the special area, nothing in the show implied that Euphie's plan wasn't going to work because it never had a chance to start.
>>133128670 >It arguably is the most mainstream one. Who cares? I was talking about quality. >>133128786 >The show was always full of over-the-top and contrived events Not really, this one stood out because it was obvious half-assed attempted at drama that didn't really add up.
>One, Lelouch had the Geass eye permanently on the whole time afterwards. It was simply covered up with a contact lens. There wasn't another way to escalate the power.
That does not change the fucking fact that he does not have a similar instance if it happening also having your geass on permanent is different from losing control as shown in the show itself.
None if that shit is allusions to her plan failing. You're just grasping for straws at this point.
>>133128417 Protip: Geassfags didn't actually pay attention to the plot which is why so many of them misding tge underlying themes and characterization present in the show and after all these years still don't get it. >>133129318 Honestly I'll say Code Geass was his worst work on extension of R2 being so fucking terrible and unfun to watch.
>>133129095 Any actually careful viewer would notice he was having some trouble with the same eye earlier in that episode. Even mere moments before that point C.C. notices something is going on. So again, it's not really that sudden.
But of course it's contrived, like all soap opera and a lot of theatre. So what?
Both of his eyes became permanent. That was fully consistent, since it is also what happened to Mao.
There is no other form of "losing control" so you're asking for something completely different that has no other precedent in the show.
Just because you deny it doesn't mean what I've listed isn't in the show.
Oh, please. I guess a title like BLOODSTAINED EUPHEMIA sure is hiding everything right?
If your own rebel protagonist absolutely hates something and a villain actually thinks it is a good idea to weaken the rebels, what do you think the show is trying to tell us?
>>133129248 It was melodrama with black humor, not regular drama, and I always love how the most critical people towards it are often the least capable of admitting the show had already made it clear that over-the-top contrivance was fair game.
You don't understand how Geass changes then. Lelouch's eye became permanently on. That's what happened. It wasn't like he could voluntarily turn the power off again with the same eye. Then he other eye can't be turned off twenty episodes later. What the hell do you mean then?
All of that shit supports the point. Ignoring it doesn't make you look smart.
>>133129318 Planetes isn't original. GunXSword isn't really better. In fact, actually has a lot of things in common. Just has more typical "hero kills bad guy, the end" outcome. Infinite Ryvius is better, but it's a completely different genre.
>>133129411 Geassfags as you call them have made several good points which you haven't refuted at all. You don't seem to understand any of the themes or characterization either, going by your lack of proper analysis.
Code Geass was alwas fun to watch. This includes R2. Calling it his worst and unfun makes you look silly.
>>133129411 Anyone who thinks R2 is the worst or that it makes Code Geass the worst work doesn't have much business telling other people that they don't get it. Because it reveals you didn't get R2 either.
>>133129477 No it didn't. You only got ONE instance in the show where she told him that if he overused it he would lose control and that was in the very beginning, the only time she since something was wrong...WAS WHEN IT FUCKING HAPPENED. Yeah you're gonna have to try harder.
You're literally saying "its shit so what?" as an argument.
Only one of his eyes became permanent, he doesn't get the second one until the end of R2.
When Lelouch lost control he felt a great pain in his eye and struggled to regain his posture during that moment the geass could control anyone, when he has it permanent no such thing happens.
Deny what? Everything you listed was fanfiction.
Like I said, saying something was alluded IN THE FUCKING TITLE OF THE SAME EPISODE IT HAPPENED is not a good argument.
Lelouch hated Britannia and wanted it to be destroyed by the end of the series he winded up being the Emperor, the same villain winded up on the same side as the rebels in the last arc. I guess you better shut the fuck up.
>>133129609 >Planetes isn't original. Wasn't talking about original just his body of work in general >GunXSword isn't really better It is. >Infinite Ryvius is better, but it's a completely different genre. Irrelevant >Scryed isn't It is.
>>133129558 None of this refute my point. It's like you're ignoring the fact that you have have those elements and handle them well.
Once again not what I'm talking about you fucking idiot. His Geass losing control is different from it being permanently on. For someone who claimed to have watched the show you don't seem to have been paying attention at all like he sad >>133129411
>>133129699 R2 takes a show with a setup that could have very much wrapped up in 26 episodes and needlessly expands it making the cast regress and the setting collapsed on itself all just to give a simple message that was easy to figure out in the first season in the end. It's incredibly poorly done and not fun to watch at all.
>>133129609 GxS has a very simple premise and pulls it off to the end with no bullshit. It's incredibly shallow and dumb but more entertaining than Code Geass.
Scryed was essentially what Code Geass should have been, an entertaining romp following the trials and tribulations between two wildly different characters who see their lives crumble before their eyes its better by being entertaining and keeping up momentum until the end.
>>133129035 Is this from the Picture Drama for that comes with in the 4th volume of Akito's ova? if so could someone be able to upload it in 720p format as well as the other two from the 2nd and 3rd ova release?
>>133129995 R2 takes an early detour but continues the same progression. Lelouch and Suzaku needed to be fully broken in order to team up, which was not going to happen at all during S1 since Suzaku was still a moralfag
Sure, maybe if you didn't like code geass that much as a whole you would prefer R1 because R2 is R1 on steroids but otherwise what the fuck are you thinking?
R1 was just meandering. For a good junk of the middle of the show there were no wins or losses. Lelouche would almost win and then queue susaku coming in for the 20th time. Lelouche would almost lose and here comes either CC or some random geass shit. It wasn't until Euphemia that major shit started happening and we got some real progression again.
At least in R2 it really feels like Lelouche wins or loses. When he loses to Xing he also loses Kallen. When Nunally gets taken and he leaves Japan, that is real change in the plot. We don't have 10 episodes of him failing to kill Cornelia.
Don't even get me started on how better Suzaku is as a character in R2. There is a huge difference between seeing someone fight for shitty idealism and fighting because of Euphemia's death.
Hell, even the fucking SOL episodes are magnitudes better. The Cupid Day was my 4th favorite episode because of how well done the humor was and the shirley cliffhanger.
>>133131014 Thing is, GxS has less compelling contents and uneven execution too. It tells a more audience pleasing by the numbers story but that is all. Lelouch alone is an infinitely more interesting protagonist and the ending has a lot more emotional power. They are both very entertaining, but I have seen people fall asleep with GxS. Geass goes for more fun factor and obviously delivers it.
>>133129995 That's a poor way to put it. The first season alone couldn't have wrapped up the entire story. Either it would need to have both Lelouch and Suzaku die, which would accomplish nothing at that poin the narrative, or having them agree to help Euphemia, which would also not resolve anything else. And what do you mean regress? The plot did take a step back for an arc or two, but the characters didn't regress. Setting was exactly the same: Japan with a few extra scenarios on the side. So your argument seems rather shallow and superficial.
>>133130249 GXS has a lot of formulaic wandering around from town to town that didn't really need to be present. The series might have benefitted from either being completely episodic or just making the main narrative more important early on.
I mean, I like Van myself because it feels satisfying to see him get revenge in the end, but until then he is a character who isn't that appealing to those who want something more. His condiment gimmick gets a little old and he is either lazy and uninterested or only half-heartedly helping others fight evil. Getting revenge against the Claw Man is the only thing that makes Van seriously give a damn.
>>133134196 >Last arc has Lelouch playing the villain but that had nothing to do with the point in question Actually it does. You're saying that if the protagonist says something then it obviously means its gonna happen and I just proved your dumbass wrong.
>>133135072 >The first season alone couldn't have wrapped up the entire story. Actually it could if the end result was the same. R2 has way too many useless moments in it that it feels like everything leading up to the ending is filler.
>The plot did take a step back for an arc or two, but the characters didn't regress CC and Kallen very much did regress, the rest of the cast also became worse.
>Setting was exactly the same Wrong again.
It's fine that you liked R2 for whatever reason but you're not winning this argument with such a shitty stance.
>>133135556 >The point is the bulk of the audience is always meant to sympathize with Lelouch Not really, you don't have to sympathize with him and the show doesn't force you to especially when it tells you that his way of thinking s wrong and how the creators had to tell you that ZR was not a good end for his character, that's like saying we're suppose to sympathize with Light from Death Note because he's the main character. I know its a foreign concept to you but an MC can be wrong in an story and Lelouch was definitely wrong throughout most of the series. Also the whole schinck with Schneizel was that he was Lelouch before he saw what his parents were doing so he was essentially no different from his actions.
>>133134544 >uninteresting Kazuma and Ryuho were a hell of a lot more entertaining than Lelouch and Suzaku. >but lack any real inner conflict or even thematic value Good to see you haven't watched it.
>>133134747 >It tells a more audience pleasing by the numbers story but that is all And it doesn't fuck up, nothing wrong with that. >Lelouch alone is an infinitely more interesting protagonist and the ending has a lot more emotional power. Can't argue with that. >They are both very entertaining, but I have seen people fall asleep with GxS. Geass goes for more fun factor and obviously delivers it. Fun is subjective and at the same time no merit in quality, GxS had a tighter narrative than Code Geass and the latter had a lot more boring episodes (i.e every school episode and most of R2) so its not to say Code Geass was more entertaining or fun but more memorable thanks in part to the core cast being stronger.
>>133135295 Don't care much for Van or most of the cast of GxS barring Ray but they didn't annoy me well except for Joshua like the cast of CG did as it went along. I thought Claw was a more intimidating villain than Charles and Schinzel who both wind up being disappointing in fact the villains in GxS were more interesting than the protagonists.
>>133135578 They would need to change the structure of the first season in order to reach the same conclusion as the one in R2. Which would effectively make it a completely different series.
There is indeed a lot of stuff that feels like quasi-filler in R2, most obviously so at the start, but practically every episode had at least a few scenes that did move things forward. For instance, having Lelouch directly confront Nunnally in R2 ep 6, for instance, and finding him unable to act against her wishes as a result. During S1, he never had to directly oppose Nunnally since she was passive and was rarely affected by outside events (Mao and Black Rebellion aside). Even the Chinese Federation arc has Lelouch gaining more resouces for his fight and losing some of his previous allies, which was a new development.
>CC and Kallen very much did regress, the rest of the cast also became worse.
No. The only point where C.C. literally regresses is when she loses her memory, but that experience and being in Lelouch's company actually helped her feel human again. Which is a step forward for the character. Just not a very interesting one. Similarly, Kallen learns more about Lelouch but is unsure about what his real person is like. She didn't even know he was Zero until the end of S1, so that question was never in her mind. She was also too easily fooled by Lelouch right aft the start of S1.
>>133135717 >You would have to be absolutely, blindingly retarded to believe R2 has more useless moments than R1. The China arc was so worthless that it got omitted from the compilation films even the fucking Mao arc made it in those. You can also take out the first 4 episodes because those are just reintroduction to the cast, the geass cult can be taken out as well because the whole subplot with geass winds up not really mattering at all and remains unexplained, so yeah R2 can begin with Lelouch forming the world army and continue from there.
>Following the chain post I can see you didn't care much for CG anyway which explains why you don't have a very informed opinion. Whether I care for it or not is irrelevant, its incredibly flawed in presentation and execution and it becomes increasingly difficult to ignore them in R2 because they tack on even more hindrances on top of the ones in R1.
>Please try to tell me that 7 episodes of Zero and Cornelia's shitty cat and mouse game was not useless. They establish his character and his rise to building an army and being at wits ends with Suzaku his former childhood friend, admittingly the only worthless episode is the school episode with Arthur but the rest are important for building the setting and the cast in comparison the first 7 episodes of R2 we're given just a reintroduction to the world and the cast and shit we already know from the first season, that seems a lot more pointless imo.
>>133135665 The show was completely set up to make you cheer for Lelouch's struggle against Britannia. Some of his individual actions are wrong or morally questionable, to such an extent that the creators personally disagree with his code of ethics, but the narrative is still making you prefer him to Suzaku at the end of the day.
He simply needed to mature, which the narrative forces him to do through a series of painful experiences.
In fact, the creators do point out that ZR is an ultimately "good end" in at least two separate interviews, though they understand why people might view it as a tragedy due to Lelouch getting killed.
Yet the guy died with a smile and totally satisfied with the victory, since his goal was to change the world. That's bittersweet but not a "bad end" in any objective manner.
Light from Death Note was presented as uniformly evil and full of himself in a way that doesn't apply to Lelouch.
>>133135801 >Kazuma and Ryuho were a hell of a lot more entertaining than Lelouch and Suzaku. Of course, that's a valid personal opinion. Not a very popular one on either side of the Pacific or Atlantic Oceans though. It's in the absolute minority.
Compared to the other shows mentioned, their rivalry is nothing special. None of their inner conflicts make them change their positions towards each other. They temporarily team up to fight a greater evil yet go right back to fighting an unnecessary (because it's intellectually useless) duel to the near-death.
>And it doesn't fuck up, nothing wrong with that. Except it's typically seen as too derivative and too safe to even be worth finishing as far as most anime fans are concerned.
>GxS had a tighter narrative than Code Geass On paper, but the pacing itself is loose. Just in a different manner. The first half of the show and up to a quarter of the second could have been made shorter with no ill effects for the narrative.
>and the latter had a lot more boring episodes (i.e every school episode and most of R2) I didn't think the four school episodes were any more boring than the least interesting GXS episodes. Just throwaway antics with a small bone of useful information on the side in both cases.
I do think the cast is stronger in Code Geass but I'll admit I did grow to like a few GXS characters by the end.
>>133136137 >The show was completely set up to make you cheer for Lelouch's struggle against Britannia. Some of his individual actions are wrong or morally questionable, to such an extent that the creators personally disagree with his code of ethics, but the narrative is still making you prefer him to Suzaku at the end of the day. Nope, the show pretty much states and shows that he's wrong and the very fact that his ambition was a sham proves this. If you were for Lelouch it wasn't because he was right it was because you just liked him more but Okuichi and Taniguichi never actually wanted you to side with either of them and to further implicate this they actually switched ideologies in the last arc with Lelouch becoming the Emperor and changing the system from within while Suzaku takes charge by defeating anyone who opposes him, if you walked out of the show thinking "Lelouch was right" then you missed the point.
>He simply needed to mature, which the narrative forces him to do through a series of painful experiences. But he doesn't mature he just comes with an foolish and selfish conclusion due to his own ego, its good for the character but not the best solution at all
>In fact, the creators do point out that ZR is an ultimately "good end" in at least two separate interviews
No they don't, they never stated that it was a good end at all they just said that Lelouch and Suzaku did what they did to make amends for their sins not the world.
>Yet the guy died with a smile and totally satisfied with the victory, since his goal was to change the world.
Nope his goal was for himself because he deemed himself unworthy for the world so he had to make amends, that smile if from a suicidal teenager who never moved on.
While Lelouch wasn't "evil" like Light he was surely full of himself and thought everything he was doing was a just cause and that he was the necessary evil to take down a nation, his love for his sister gives him sympathy points but he's a monster.
>>133136125 Well, the China arc had two purposes: Lelouch gets a larger army and yet loses his best pilot. You can summarize those events pretty quickly without going into the details.
The power of Geass is always a touchy subject since some folks wanted more info but it wasn't the point of the story. If they had explained more of it that would mean the second half of R2's speed needs to increase even more, not less, so they made an understandable decision to make that less of a priority while still dropping a couple of new facts.
I agree with you about that last paragraph, though the other guy probably won't.
>>133136508 >While Lelouch wasn't "evil" like Light >he was surely full of himself and thought everything he was doing was a just cause and that he was the necessary evil to take down a nation Sounds exactly like Light to me.
Also, i'm not the guy the you replied to, but I don't think that Lelouch is a monster.
>>133136125 This doesn't even come close to explaining away all those useless moments in R1.
How many times do we need to see the Lancelot come in and ruin Lelouche's plans? What is so difficult a concept to convey that they needed to show Lelouche fighting cornelia 4 fucking times? She is not even close to being an end tier villain.
And do we need to see Suzaku literally in every damn fight with Lelouche? Why couldn't we have seen him fighting others like when he saved Jeremiah?
And just because the chinese arc was bad, doesn't mean it is useless. The chinese arc establishes that he confronts his sister and finds a way to keep his rebellion without hurting her. It shows him forming his confederation of nations. It also shows us Nina because of her importance.
I'll never tire of explaining it but the first few episodes of R2 were specifically made to retell the story. Code geass was given a huge primetime slot and lots of new viewers in R2 so they came up with that as a way of retelling the story.
They also contain a shit ton of important set up. The emperor having geass, Suzaku is round knight, Rolo is introduced, Kallen confronts Lelouche as zero and Nunally is the viceroy.
Sure, you might hate how R2 was handled but I can't understand for the life of me how R2 had less necessary moments in it than R1.
And shit, thanks for reminding me how useless Mao was because I forgot about him. 2 episodes I can understand but three was way too much.
>>133136472 >You shouldn't fight for what you consider right >You shouldn't stand for your beliefs even when they go against the laws of society >The laws of society are always right. >You must act like a blind sheep who follows whatever people tell Things would never change if everyone thought like you.
>>133136444 >Not a very popular one on either side of the Pacific or Atlantic Oceans though. It's in the absolute minority. Nice evidence you got there kid. Just so you know more people think Kirito is a better character than Lelouch in both sides of the hemisphere. Not sure what you're trying to prove? I guess Reinhard and Yang aren't great adversaries because Naruto and Sasuke are more popular?
>Compared to the other shows mentioned, their rivalry is nothing specia Never said they were, its just done well enough that you can sympathize with both of them.
>None of their inner conflicts make them change their positions towards each other. Which is realistic, you're not gonna change your view from meeting a person who is the complete opposite of you all that came about from their meeting is that they found and underlying respect for one another in the end even if they don't want to admit it.
>They temporarily team up to fight a greater evil yet go right back to fighting an unnecessary (because it's intellectually useless) duel to the near-death.
Guess it was too deep for you to understand
>Except it's typically seen as too derivative and too safe to even be worth finishing as far as most anime fans are concerned.
You don't speak for anime fans especially when you consider what is popular nowadays not being anything out that norm.
>The first half of the show and up to a quarter of the second could have been made shorter with no ill effects for the narrative.
The first half is largely establishing the world they live in which comes into play in the second half, its neither offensive of time consuming considering it only makes up 6 episodes of the entire show and has several plot orientated episodes among them.
> four school episodes There was more than four and even then the school aspect took a good chunk of time from the series when it was ultimately pointless and only used for pandering.
>>133136472 >>133136610 So just like Light from Death Note, and you can't fucking say people didn't sympathize with him because the fucking creators had to step up and say NO YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSE TO DEFEND HIM. >>133136623 >sabotaged He changed the system and brought it back to where it was prior to Charles rule and made it so that Nunally and Schinzel and work on it while he's gone. He sure as fuck didn't "destroy it" like he said he would and the only people who get fucked are the nobles in the end.
>>133134747 >GxS has less compelling contents Different things for different audiences. Gundam SEED is a sort of retelling of the original Gundam show specifically made to appeal to modern audiences : it ended being trash. >uneven execution You don't talk about GxS having uneven execution when Geass is much, much more guilty at that. >Lelouch alone is an infinitely more interesting protagonist Lelouch is a very simple character, what made his character popular was theatrics, not him being "interesting" which he is not. Go see Magic Kaito, Kid carries a lot of the show, Kid's character appeal is the same as Zero minus the edge. >They are both very entertaining Subjective. >I have seen people fall asleep with GxS Irrelevant anecdote, we're talking about the shows, not some dumbasses watching something they have no interest in. It's about as intelligent as pointing at how many 12 years old on MAL enjoyed a show to determine its quality. >Geass goes for more fun factor Subjective and untrue.
>>133136508 >If you were for Lelouch it wasn't because he was right it was because you just liked him more but Okuichi and Taniguichi never actually wanted you to side with either of them
Except that's not accurate. Lelouch wasn't portrayed as morally perfect, this is true, but the show did want you to like him. That's not a big secret.
Taniguchi literally spells out that he cast Jun Fukuyama as Lelouch against type. The director says he wanted the audience to identify with his inner good nature, regardless of all his evil actions.
He even told the same advice to the English dub people, which is why they cast JYB in the role.
Ergo, if you really think the show called Code Geass : Lelouch of the Rebellion wants you to think the protagonist is actually wrong about everything and should be honestly hated for his crimes while failing at his goals, then you are mistaken.
Lelouch's ideology changed less than his mental stability. Suzaku's changed more. Lelouch still used the "wrong" means to change the world by suddenly becoming Emperor and manipulating everyone else with lies. He acted "from the inside" in a way but in a purely formal fashion, not as a genuine reformer.
Suzaku, on the other hand, abandoned his annoying "right methods" preaching and became a willing accomplice in a gigantic scam.
>But he doesn't mature He accepts punishment and also overcomes his crippling obssession with Nunnally. In fact, he actually uses Geass on her for the sake of the plan, which would have been a sin for him before.
>its good for the character but not the best solution at all It doesn't have to be the "best" possible solution.
>>133136761 Tell me when you plan to hijack the system because you're unsatisfied with your lot anon. You don't get chuuni powers for that by the way and the people supporting the system aren't complete dumbasses.
>>133136508 >No they don't, they never stated that it was a good end at all
Taniguchi: (laugh) It's up to everyone how they want to interpret the ending, I don't mind, but for me, it was a Happy Ending.
------I see. So Lelouch's decision was also your, Mr. Okouchi's, and Director Taniguchi's decision.
Okouchi: Which is why I think of both our and Lelouch's decision as Happy Ends. I believe that there will be better things in the tomorrow awaiting Nunnally, Kallen and the rest who have been left behind. And surely Lelouch, who was able to make this into a reality, can only be happy [about this].
>Nope his goal was for himself because he deemed himself unworthy for the world so he had to make amends, that smile if from a suicidal teenager who never moved on.
You're picking the most narrow interpretation of the ending in defiance of what Lelouch himself says to Suzaku in that ZR scene and beyond, so....I don't see why you're so close-minded.
>his love for his sister gives him sympathy points but he's a monster.
Yet he's not portrayed as badly as he could be. The show makes you feel he does care.
>>133137072 Your country is the way it is right now because of these chuunis who hijacked the system though. Assuming you're american, your laws and constitution are highly influenced by the French revolution. Not only that, as you fought against England to ensure your independence at that time. I guess that everyone should just have accepted that laws are just meant to be followed and never defied, right?I guess that all the revolutions and riots that happened at the course of history were pointless and everyone who participated on them were just edgy teens.
God, you sure are retarded. Do a favor to /a/ and stop posting.
>>133136649 >How many times do we need to see the Lancelot come in and ruin Lelouche's plans?
Same as all the times we see Gundams fight other robots, or how many times we saw Van defeat a random villain of the week in GXS. Or, say, a metric ton of other mecha shows with comparable situations.
>What is so difficult a concept to convey that they needed to show Lelouche fighting cornelia 4 fucking times?
Defeating her was one of his key objectives at the time and he tried different ways to pull it off. First time was a total failure (almost got killed/discovered), second one came pretty close (except for Suzaku) and the last one was successful (he got to use Geass on her).
>And do we need to see Suzaku literally in every damn fight with Lelouche? Why couldn't we have seen him fighting others like when he saved Jeremiah?
He actually fights some other characters from time to time, but clearly Suzaku wants to stop Zero in particular more than just fight criminals. Not to mention that Suzaku gets trapped by Zero's trickery at least twice in the process of said fights.
>I'll never tire of explaining it but the first few episodes of R2 were specifically made to retell the story.
Which is fine, in all honesty, though obviously some older Geass fans didn't appreciate that at the time.
The third time with Mao was to have him reveal Suzaku's past. That was all.
>>133136859 What world do you live in that you'd think any human community around the globe would prefer any character in Scryed to any character in Geass though?
Depending on the time period, Lelouch has ranked over Kirito in polls and SAO is more popular now. Thing is, Scryed was never huge anywhere and consistently gets lesser scores even from professional critics in comparison, both before and after Lelouch had ever existed.
>Never said they were, its just done well enough that you can sympathize with both of them.
Personal opinion. Yet for many viewers they're just akin to two irrational forces of nature who can't stop fighting each other even when a full reconciliation would be the smart thing to do. Goku and Vegeta showed more tolerance for each other than that.
Most realistic individuals will at least consider the opposite side's arguments from time to time and listen to reason. Kazuma and Ryuho do no listen even when their girl friends (so to speak) tell them to stop fighting.
>There was more than four
Two festivals per season.
Everything else didn't take place primarily at the school.
Pandering also happens in GXS so that's a dead end road.
That was rhetorical. Lelouch destroyed the Britannia of his dad. It's definitely not the same system anymore. Why would he continue to hate on it? There was no need to literally blown up the whole nation.
Although we don't know anything about Britannia from immediately before Charles became Emperor so that's your interpretation, not something clear from the show itself.
>>133137130 Yes it was 4 times The first in the ghetto, second at the landslide, third at the docks and then before the finale. 4 times. Team rocket antics right there.
Lancelot comes in at almost every on screen battle. We see very little of him fighting without lelouche also there. R2 had a really good scene where it showed him as the knight of round fucking up some sand people. It was good because it showed him being a badass and didn't make us detest him for ruining lelouche's plans again.
His confederation of nations is important because later he ends up fighting the very thing he built. It also set up for the betrayal episode and the finale.
So yes, your wrong, there were four fights and the Lancelot shows up way too much in conjunction with Lelouche. >>133137381 >Same as all the times we see Gundams fight other robots, or how many times we saw Van defeat a random villain of the week in GXS. This is a useless statement because it has nothing to do with seeing Lelouche and Suzaku butting heads and resulting in no progression. The only time we really get a good Lancelot episode in the middle of the season was when he was revealed but even then it turned into the same boring no win no lose situation.
>but clearly Suzaku wants to stop Zero in particular We got it after the third time, really we did. But the problem is everytime we see Suzaku it is in opposition to Lelouche and tells the same story.
As for Mao, I am referring to the second episode of that arc.
>>133136975 Arguably, Gundam SEED was fine until Destiny.
That's the point, since both shows have uneven execution. But the best moments of Code Geass are more numerous and far better than the best moments of GXS.
>Lelouch is a very simple character, what made his character popular was theatrics, not him being "interesting" which he is not
Not much of a compelling argument on your part. There's no shortage of people who find him interesting, again, even among critics who don't care for the final product. Ergo, just the theatrics alone aren't everything there is to him.
That's funny, because Kid and Zero are only very superficially similar. Not in any real sense.
>Subjective. This applies to over half your post though.
>Irrelevant anecdote, we're talking about the shows, not some dumbasses watching something they have no interest in. Your personal views are equally anecdotical.
>Geass goes for more fun factor >Subjective and untrue.
Subjective perhaps, as is your opinion, but not untrue
>>133137762 >This is a useless statement because it has nothing to do with seeing Lelouche and Suzaku butting heads and resulting in no progression.
Except there is progression. Not necessarily in terms of the fight itself, though it does sometimes vary.
>The only time we really get a good Lancelot episode in the middle of the season was when he was revealed but even then it turned into the same boring no win no lose situation.
All this tells me is you want to see complete wins and loses right from the start of a show, even when it's actually a story between rivals who aren't going to be defeated until the end. Which doesn't happen in most robot shows either.
>But the problem is everytime we see Suzaku it is in opposition to Lelouche and tells the same story.
Big picture, yes. Each situation has its own nuances.
>>133137619 The real world and S-Cry-ed does have a sizable cult following attached to it, do you seriously believe that people started caring for Taniguchi during CG? He was a well known director before then and his works Ryvius and S-Cry-ed were hugely successful, S-cry-ed was loved enough to get two compilation films for its 10th anniversary and did well in the US unlike Code Geass. The only people who thinks nobody cares about it are newshits like you.
Wrong on all accounts, S-Cry-ed was popular and actually did better than Code Geass in the west and from a professional critics standpoint CG is not rated any higher.
Nope, show never let on who was right or wrong, you chose who you liked more.
I can see you've actually had any relationship in your life, that's not hiw the real world works and people don't change easily.
You're forgetting all the episodes that take place at the academy not just the festivals
>>133138102 >ACROSS 5 FUCKING EPISODES How is this better? It just means we waste more time for the same results. Fuck, why don't we just have 10 episodes of the same shit and by your logic, as long as they are spread thin, they should be good right? > Lancelot which only appears 1/4 Lancelot appears a lot more than that buddy but regardless that is not the point. The point is we see the same situation play out every time. The only time we see something interesting is when suzaku is revealed because that is actual character progression.
If anything we should see the Lancelot in scenes not involving lelouche so that we can see different aspects of his ideas without the same context.
>>133138082 >Except there is progression. Not necessarily in terms of the fight itself, though it does sometimes vary. The progression is spread pretty bad.
The dock episode for instance. We are teased with Suzaku mercilessly killing soldiers right after bitching about Zero spilling innocent blood meaninglessly. However, he just continues to call out zero, we get no good scene showing him seriously comparing his actions to zero.
That was useless and he shouldn't have been there. All it did was make us hate Suzaku more for continously being a cockblock.
>All this tells me is you want to see complete wins and loses right from the start of a show
We want to see progression. We don't need an episode of Suzaku and zero fighting Chinese Japan for no reason etc.
>>133138815 >How is this better? That you're making a big deal out if fucking nothing when she doesn't even show up often and its largely at key moments in the story.
>Lancelot appears a lot more than that buddy It doesn't, also did you by chance firget that.....CG is mecha anime and the Lancelot is the primary mech in the series? Your complaint seems moot especially when we don't see it that iften anyways.
>>133139133 >Lancelot appears a lot more than that buddy but regardless that is not the point. There is the full quote for you retard.
The Lancelot shows up in almost all of zero's fights in R1. He does the same shit in most of them.
Lelouche is about to pull of a victory and here comes the fucking lancelot to even everything out and reduce plot progression to zero.
>That you're making a big deal out if fucking nothing She can appear as much as she wants but seeing her be attacked again and again is overkill when she is not even close to the end game enemy.
Here is the big problem with the constant bullshit cornelia fights. The SOL episodes in Code geass are quick to make you realize they aren't going to do much. You don't get invested and you don't need to care about the plot when the show is flat out telling you "hey, goof antics incoming."
The four fights with cornelia constantly tease the plot, then always show either Lelouche or Cornelia almost winning only to be cockblocked by something for the sake no progression.
And finally lets get back to the beginning, you said R2 had a lot of useless shit in it. I don't know what went through your head. You probably didn't like R2 and that's why you misspoke said something stupid. R1 has a ton of repetitive, useless content.
Maybe you felt like seeing Lelouche build an empire only to lose it unimportant in his character arc and that really they shoulda just skipped to him taking over Brittania but most people don't.
>>133139616 >The Lancelot shows up in almost all of zero's fights in R1. Where was it during the Lelouch's first battle with Cornelia' the Refrain episode, the bay battle and all those other exploits the BK went on? >Lelouche is about to pull of a victory and here comes the fucking lancelot to even everything out and reduce plot progression to zero. That only happens...three times through the entire show all spaced out between many episodes.
>The four fights with cornelia constantly tease the plot, then always show either Lelouche or Cornelia almost winning only to be cockblocked by something for the sake no progression.
And this never happens, the last three encounters are nothing but plot
>R1 has a ton of repetitive, useless content.
Here you complaing about battles soaced out between episodes while I'm saying that 7 episodes of reintroduction, a pointless arc worth 4 episodes that was omitted in a compilation film, the butthat episode and the Geass cult bullshit and yet R1 has more useless content for some odd reason.
>>133140354 >Where was it during the Lelouch's first battle with Cornelia' the Refrain episode, the bay battle and all those other exploits the BK went on?
What bay battle are you even talking about? The Orange-kun battle? Yea, suzaku was there. If you're getting picky about the word Lancelot you are missing my point.
You named two episodes that featured a battle that Suzaku didn't show up in.
>And this never happens, the last three encounters are nothing but plot HOW DOES THAT DOCK EPISODE HAVE ANY PLOT IN IT? The only plot in that episode had to do with Shirley and she had nothing to do with that fight and it was pretty bizarre shoving her in there frankly.
The only plot in those episodes have nothing to do with Cornelia except for the last one. The first battle is good character plot because we see Lelouche losing and we see why he lost specifically too. But the other two were useless.
>while I'm saying that 7 episodes of reintroduction
Again, introducing emperor's geass, the chinese, rolo, having Kallen confront Lelouche, lelouche taking over the osi is not useless. You are accusing me of exaggerating while clearly doing it worse than I. Especially if you waited 6 months the reintroduction was not useless.
If you would have said they were bad I would have agreed, but when you look at how many repetitive fights there were in R1 and scenes that could have been compressed it blows my mind that R2 would have more useless content to the story than R1.
>>133134589 R2 was indeed better, but the episodes practically mirrored the first season. Sure the fights were better, but I enjoyed Lelouch's initial struggles and learning to make creative use of his bullshit power against overwhelming odds.
I don't remember certain plot points, but I know Lelouch left the battle scene in the season 1 climax to find Nunally, causing the battle to go to shit. Where was he expecting to find Nunally? What was behind the door in the cave?
It was bearable in R1 and the story wasn't too large to the point where I was rolling my eyes.
R2 just felt like they were trying to make this too epic with their cringe worthy plot twists and over dramatic segments that was on par with day time television. Also the number of plot holes in the first half R2 was more than all the total ass pulls in R1 combined.
>>133141096 >What bay battle are you even talking about? The Orange-kun battle? Nope, try again.
>HOW DOES THAT DOCK EPISODE HAVE ANY PLOT IN IT?
So Lelouch having his identity exposed to his friend is not a plot point or something important? Okay.
>The only plot in those episodes have nothing to do with Cornelia except for the last one.
We're introduced to Cornelia as a character in all of them, first on is how she conducts herself in battle, second is how she sees herself in the family and the last one is the most important, You're pretty much grasping for straws.
>introducing emperor's geass, the chinese, rolo, having Kallen confront Lelouche, lelouche taking over the osi is not useless.
It is, if you watched R1(which you should have anyways) you dont need a refresher at all making those episodes pointless. The Chinese characters aren't importantto the plot at all and neither is Rolo for that matter since he's a glorified plot device that does nothing until much later on.
> but when you look at how many repetitive fights there were in R1 and scenes that could have been compressed it blows my mind that R2 would have more useless content to the story than R1.
It blows my mind how you can lie out your ass so much and make a big deal out of battles that are spaced episodes apart and call them worthless.
>So Lelouch having his identity exposed to his friend is not a plot point or something important? Almost completely nothing to do with the battle itself. Most of that is dealt with in the next episode.
>We're introduced to Cornelia as a character in all of them, first on is how she conducts herself in battle, second is how she sees herself in the family and the last one is the most important
This is probably the stupidest thing you've said today. This makes no sense. How does the landslide episode talk about how she sees herself in the family? Second, why the fuck is such a trivial thing important enough to warrant a battle with no plot progression?
You know what would've been good and some common sense? At least show dalton, or gilford dieing. Show Cornelia losing something. Show Kallen captured, show anything that would have made those episodes show plot progression instead of making it feel like a standstill battle wise.
The plot we get from these episodes always seem to have almost nothing to do with the battle or Lelouche's goal.
>>133136013 >They would need to change the structure of the first season in order to reach the same conclusion as the one in R2
Not really, there's only a small posture of plot points that actually matter in R2 anyways.
>For instance, having Lelouch directly confront Nunnally in R2 ep 6, for instance, and finding him unable to act against her wishes as a result. During S1, he never had to directly oppose Nunnally since she was passive and was rarely affected by outside events (Mao and Black Rebellion aside).
That doesn't add up to much of anything since we don't see much of Nunnally in the first season anyways, to say that R2 is needed for this change is retarded
>Even the Chinese Federation arc has Lelouch gaining more resouces for his fight and losing some of his previous allies, which was a new development.
No it wasn't and the Chinese characters are worthless, they omitted that arc and cast from the compilation films with no problem whatsoever to the narrative so they obviously weren't important
> The only point where C.C. literally regresses is when she loses her memory, but that experience and being in Lelouch's company actually helped her feel human again. Which is a step forward for the character. Just not a very interesting one. Nope and nope. This was a very poorly developed aspect of her character and it winds up not amounting to much in the end because after the revelation with Charles she winds up not doing much of anything and it shows when she's just stands there as everyone has some role to do. What was an interesting character in R1 became a waste of space in R2.
To say that Kallen's entire character didn't regress because it hedged solely on getting to know Lelouch is hilarious in itself because it shows how very little character she has as a whole. She's absent through the majority of R2 and is only amount to a glorified plot device by then as well.
>>133143006 >The episode has an important revelation in it making it significant. You lose. This is getting pathetic. Your post are getting smaller, your points are getting weaker and better yet you were factually wrong on two accounts and just disregard it.
Whatever trivial detail she mentioned in the landslide episode that would ever give you some bizarre impression is just that, trivial. The only development was between her and gilford but it's not like that plot point will matter for another season so who gives a fuck.
Lelouche needs to work to get to his goal. Showing his battles at a constant standstill is a bad way of showing him building up his forces. It makes it feel like the show is going nowhere, regardless of what happens in the background.
Him declaring independence gathering a huge force because of Euphie's tragedy makes it look like the plots progressing. Hell show him losing and it does the same. It makes it feel like the show is changing.
R2 did some really good moments with Millie reflecting back on how things use to be and really showed the change that happened.
>>133143373 If you like substance and consistency you probably didn't like R1 that much either.
>>133143279 It is though. Sunrise officially recognizes Oz as canon and Okuichi and Taniguchi have all the say in that they can say no to plans in Oz and Akito. Taniguchi and Okuichi let Marika get retconned into surviving.
>>133144336 Code Grass isn't Gundam. And they do acknowledge it. The animated thing being only canon doesn't work since Renya is acknowledged as canon since Taniguchi wrote it. Renya of Darkness is canon no matter how mediocre it was
>>133144627 >And they do acknowledge it. They don't. >The animated thing being only canon doesn't work since Renya is acknowledged as canon since Taniguchi wrote it. They literally don't care, if it ain't animated its not canon to them.
>>133138660 >do you seriously believe that people started caring for Taniguchi during CG? That wasn't the question. Ryvius and Scryed were minor hits. Planetes was well-received but not popular. Nothing else has been on the same scale.
>Ryvius and S-Cry-ed were hugely successful, They were popular and profitable for the time, yes, but neither of them were huge.
>S-cry-ed was loved enough to get two compilation films for its 10th anniversary That's fine, since it was a cult hit. Thing is, Code Geass got compilation movies much earlier than that and multiple spin-offs. Why? Because there was a much bigger market for it.
>did well in the US unlike Code Geass I don't think there is any evidence for that.
>S-Cry-ed was popular and actually did better than Code Geass in the west Again, doesn't seem like the sort of thing you could prove other than among a small circle of friends.
>>133141531 I think S1 is not that perfect and R2 is not that terrible. There are good sides to the second season as well as bad sides to the first. That said, the second is all about breaking Lelouch down, which people tend to appreciate less than building him up.
>>133141739 >>133141845 Intellectual appeal is realitve. This show isn't trying to appeal to anything realistic in terms of science or philosophy, but it does have some interesting dynamics and situations, regardless of the impossible twists surrounding them. There's plenty of shows that have the same craziness but are a lot less interesting to watch.
>>133141994 Objectively speaking, the final script for R2 was finished in April. It's also pretty clear from early S2 that they were going to end with certain events happening, even though the pacing did get too fast around the middle of the season.
R2 is divisive. There's a lot of bitching but also more positive opinions than just that.
>>133142538 The landslide episode actually served to weaken the JLF and also put Cornelia in danger for the first time, plus it did other unrelated things with more of the cast. Her initial battle versus Zero didn't even threaten Cornelia's forces, so it was necessary to see if Lelouch could actually find a way to defeat her. Which almost worked. So saying that battle had no plot progression is rather silly.
>>133142824 Which still need to be delivered in more than the 25 episodes of the first show.
Even if you changed some details, having something similar would be necessary for Lelouch to get over his sister. That would have been completely impossible at the time of the first series since, again, she never opposed him at all.
The Chinese characters being mostly stereotypical or "worthless" doesn't mean the story didn't need their resources. Zero needed more personnel and allies.
You just have a different, and rather simplistic to be sure, way of looking at it. C.C. did become more human through her interactions with Lelouch, including that sequence with Charles and showing her from another perspective, which ties into what S1 was already doing with her. It could have been done in another way, but the outcome made sense. The fact you think that's a waste of space tells me you weren't paying too much attention or just don't like the idea. Not that it's a problem or wrong.
Nothing you've said suggests any regression to a previous state, so your sloppy yet cynical view of Kallen isn't any better than your view of C.C. either. As a matter of fact, she was the only person amon the BKs who tried to find out the most about Lelouch. She did ultimately fail, but that is important since how he is perceived or not by others -thanks to his lies- is part of the themes of the show, especially in the end.
>>133149262 The big thing about code geass is that its about an appreciation of an intellectual maniac character.
Take something like Deathnote, the token example. Light Yagami is similarly an egomaniac intellectual like Lelouche (with very important differences) but the show isn't about how great he or his intellect is. The show is about what would happen if you gave such a character an unbelievable power.
That's why DN ended the way it did and almost everyone hated the finale.
Code Geass is not simply about what would happen if you gave an egotistical psuedo intellectual geass. Lelouche himself says that he would of tried defeating brittania regardless of the power.
I hate to make the example on /a/ because people will bitch but its the same with one piece.
One piece doesn't talk about the merits to freedom and how to apply it and in what fashion. One piece merely appreciates the feeling of freedom.
>>133144818 Showing me the website doesn't disprove anything since the argument is that Sunrise doesn't consider shit that's not animated canon which is the truth
>>133149079 >Ryvius and Scryed were minor hits Both series sold an average of 10k which is far from a minor hit.
>They were popular and profitable for the time, yes, but neither of them were huge. I don't think there is any evidence for that.
>Thing is, Code Geass got compilation movies much earlier than that and multiple spin-offs. Why? Because there was a much bigger market for it. That wasn't the question.If S-cry-ed wasn't popular it wouldn't have recieved that sort of treatment. So you are fucking wrong in that regard.
>I don't think there is any evidence for that.
S-cry-ed had multiple runs on Adult Swim and had good sales according to Bandai. Code Geass only had one complete run on AS and DVD sets didn't do well
>Again, doesn't seem like the sort of thing you could prove other than among a small circle of friends. And you're wrong. YOU don't see it that way since YOU don't get out more, Believe it or not there's a plethora of people who have seen S-Cry-ed and GxS and have not seen Code Geass so yeah shut the fuck up and stop trying to dictate your ignorance to mean the same opinion as others.
>>133149758 >Which still need to be delivered in more than the 25 episodes of the first show. It doesn't.
>hat would have been completely impossible at the time of the first series since, again, she never opposed him at all. Wrong again.
>he Chinese characters being mostly stereotypical or "worthless" doesn't mean the story didn't need their resources. Zero needed more personnel and allies.
Black Rebellion Compilation films omitted them. No matter how many times you repeat this they were not important to the yes of many and leaving them out DID NOT CHANGE THE NARRATIVE WHATSOEVER. Deal with it.
>C.C. did become more human Not really, once again her character is never given any substantial development and we're never given the fruits of this. Also saying people aren't paying attention when you've failed to bring your point across only shows how much of a jackass you are.
>Nothing you've said suggests any regression to a previous state
But I did, she was nce a character with her own mission and a backstory and then she became shipperbait much like CC, they both lost character and relevance in R2 and nothing you can say will change that.
>As a matter of fact, she was the only person amon the BKs who tried to find out the most about Lelouch. Which amounts to absolutely fucking nothing since she still winded up betraying him in the end and didn't realized what he was doing until after he died so in the end you just manage to prove how truly pointless she was as a character.
> is part of the themes of the show, especially in the end. Nope.
>>133152532 >Both series sold an average of 10k which is far from a minor hit.
Evangelion sold way more than that. Same with any Gundam from the 1990s. Those are true hits.
>I don't think there is any evidence for that. The fact neither of them got sequels or related spin-offs.
>That wasn't the question.If S-cry-ed wasn't popular it wouldn't have recieved that sort of treatment. Yet they had to wait ten years. Scryed was popular, but you're acting like if it was some sort of phenomenon that broke out into a full property. Which it didn't.
>S-cry-ed had multiple runs on Adult Swim Doesn't really mean anything since AS does not necessarily represent the popularity of anime. They've had multiple re-runs of cartoons that flopped.
>and had good sales according to Bandai. Source? Especially since you're implying it sold more than a specific title which is visibly more popular.
>Code Geass only had one complete run on AS Again...you're using AS runs as proof of what exactly?
>DVD sets didn't do well This is the bullshit, since Funimation rescued the show and got the OVA whereas they left the lesser titles to Sentai.
So, what is your source? Especially one that proves it did worse than Scryed in sales.
Nunnally didn't oppose Lelouch at any point in season one.
Wrong. The compilation films do not suddenly remove the existence of that entire arc, nor the fact Chinese forces join up with Lelouch. They just summarize it. Again, you're mixing up a personal view of the material as useless when the fact is it did have to be acknowledged as part of the story, however briefly. I see no reason to believe obvious lies such as yours.
C.C. literally comments on her own human emotions in R2 ep. 23/24. Is your memory that bad? I remark on your lack of attention because it is so grossly insulting to anyone who knows better.
>But I did, she was nce a character with her own mission and a backstory and then she became shipperbait much like CC
It was already possible to ship either of them, which is not a bad thing either, so you're really not making sense.
>they both lost character and relevance in R2 and nothing you can say will change that So you'll just ignore any evidence and arguments to the contrary?
>Which amounts to absolutely fucking nothing since she still winded up betraying him in the end Oh wait, you're actually dumb enough to think she "betrayed" him in the end. That explains your cognitive dissonance. I suppose you don't get ZR either.
>and didn't realized what he was doing until after he died Just as planned.
>truly pointless she was as a character. Not really. You think all characters should be equally important, whereas I think variable roles are possible and valid.
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