I feel like having an outright fanservice character as a central villain is cheap. Maybe it would be more bearable if the other two weren't so kiddy looking. I think Miura could have gotten away with one goofy or dumb godhand member of five, but not three.
>Slan outright fanservice character
You could say the same about Aphrodite.
Because of the dark and wicked nature that sex can sometimes have, it makes perfect sense to have one of the godhands portray lust.
Seduction and sex are really big things in Berserk, she's not there just for the titties.
I actually like the Godhand designs except Ubik, there just don't need to be two of them rubbing their hands together. They are very distinguished from the normal apostles because they're so alien.
Well that's true.
However, there are lots of fanservice tits in earlier Berserk. Makes it hard to distinguish. I can't complain too much, though. Miura was going for an edgy and dark tone. It fits the genre.
>there just don't need to be two of them rubbing their hands together
I take back what I said. It's a perfect fit. Miura's a genius.
I wouldn't really call the sex in berserk fanservice.
I think it's actually pretty grim and sickening.
It's a pretty wicked portrayal of lust if you ask me.
I don't really feel like it's fap material, I feel like it helps create the atmosphere.
I've only seen 1 sex scene that was loving and that was Guts and Casca's, the rest of it is pure hedonistic adultery, I think it goes to show how dark the world they live in is.
>I wouldn't really call the sex in berserk fanservice.
Neither would I. I'm talking about fanservice tits, specifically. For example, starving, tortured women having full, round tits. Dismembered corpses having full, round tits, with the spine of the torso arched-
Hey. I'm gonna drop it there. Like I said, it fits the genre. Personally, I wouldn't make it quite like that, but Berkserk is good. I don't want to complain about details too much.
I actually agree. In certain cases nudity isn't for fanservice but sometimes it's obvious that Miura wanted to put in some fap material. Similar idea applies to cute Schierke panels, just in moe form.
I don't see reason in avoiding talking about it, because really it doesn't make the series any worse or seem terribly out of place (though I don't like the Casca rape scene because it's almost pornographic).
From a design standpoint
Ubik > Void > Conrad > Femto > Slan
>sometimes it's obvious that Miura wanted to put in some fap material
Sex sells, unfortunately.
>I don't like the Casca rape scene because it's almost pornographic
I really agree with you. I think the erotic-ization of that scene was jarring and contextually out of place. As if I'm supposed to be turned on by a scene that depicts the torment and betrayal of the characters I like so much. It's like, come on, man, think these things through a little before you draw them. Everytime Cas or a woman is naked or raped, it doesn't have to be shown as something sexy and erotic.
>Sex sells, unfortunately.
I hate that.
>Casca rape scene is almost pornographic
Didn't Miura say he took hentai scenes as references for that scene?
maybe because of that.
>The eroticness of the Casca rape scene.
Miura just wanted to NTR us so it hit us even fucking harder. He could of made it pure rape.
No let's fuck with dudes minds
I read this shit right after I got cheated on, it seems every fucking manga I pick up I get emotionally NTRed. FUCKKKKKK
>Miura just wanted to NTR us so it hit us even fucking harder.
I guess, yea, that's what he was going for. It's such a cheap and unintelligent storytelling device, though. Using basically porn to make it "emotionally confusing" for the reader. Forget NTR.
>Sex sells, unfortunately.
lol if you think Miura was forced to put sex in his manga for marketing or publisher reasons and not just because he likes guro, vore, rape and is a pedophile.
It is cheap as hell, but it does the job of really hurting the reader.
It's one of the biggest low-blows you can make, yet it makes for such emotional story-telling.
He wanted to kuck us with that scene. And he's achieved that. I got a confused boner because of it, which made me ashamed. Like really does he have to make it so sexual?
For fucks sake, look at Casca, she's literally embracing femto during the rape.
What a way to fuck with my psyche.
>it does the job of really hurting the reader.
> it makes for such emotional story-telling
It's just nonsense. It's the same kind of thing as the games women play with men and with each other.
>I got a confused boner because of it, which made me ashamed.
That's not the story. That just means you're not in control of your sexuality.
Things like porn and NTR feminize men. It's not natural.
>It's not natural
I think it was just the sexual nature of the scene, the way it was drawn didn't feel like rape, it felt like Casca was giving into her desires.
It does make for emotional story telling as much as you hate it, it's the quickest way to hurt the reader desu.
I think even character death is less disheartening than NTR.
He's not talking about getting turned on by NTR (probably), but about how it's drawn to be really fucking hot.
You shouldn't be ashamed about getting a boner to it. It's a physical thing reaction.
Rape is pretty sickening displayed right.
But with Miura it feels kinda clean and cold in most cases, because you don't have any attachement to the characters that it happens to.
>That just means you're not in control of your sexuality
I would be interested in this as well.
What do you even mean with that.
>I think even character death is less disheartening than NTR.
Purely a personal thing senpai
>How can you be "in control of your sexuality"?
Funny you should ask that question. I think excessive masturbation and porn addiction is a huge problem for your generation. I hate to go all /pol/ here but it's psychologically degenerate. You don't have strong minds or psyches.
That's about the only case though, were it really agigates. Because on knows Casca one way or another.
All the other scens are just like
>Yea well rape again
>when does it stop so i can skip it?
Just because of missing characterization.
>you shouldn't be ashamed
Well mentally NTR has aroused me before which makes me really ashamed.
It's becuase women I were very sexually attracted to in the past spoke to me about other men, it hurt me really badly but aroused me.
Now it rarely arouses me, 90% of the time it disgusts me.
I try to strengthen my mind nowadays, this type of shit would never turn me on anymore. I was in a fragile place at the time.
I just read Boys on the Run and got NTRd hard, all it did was fill me with hatred.
>all it did was fill me with hatred.
This is how it happens at first with NTR, or drug addiction or the like. You use anger to try and deny it or fight it. It's good in a way because it means you kind of do want it gone. But that doesn't really work because you're fighting against something that's already a part of you, and you can't fight yourself. You can't deny what's there. That's why I say forget about it. Forget about NTR, and probably porn, too. "Hot" anger is only good when you need to take care of something completely unexpected fucking immediately, that will only take like 30 seconds to sort out. After those 30 seconds though, the emotion has no use. Patience is a virtue.
>you can't deny what's there
My fetishes have changed over time, I will probably always have a slight weakness over NTR, but as long as it's not my main fetish and I value monogamy over it.
It's the best I can do, and I have to much pride to let a woman degrade me in such a way in real life. That's the best a kuck like me can do.
I realize though I may be sexually excited by it at times, the majority of it is seething anger, disgust, hatred, and self-hatred. As long as I don't become indifferent towards it, I can fight it.
And I can win the battle.
I mean my ex cheated on me, yes I was turned on by it only during a psychotic breakdown, but that was when I was going absolutely crazy, I was still unconditionally in love with her. I Hate her and now I want the girl dead. Literally. I see nothing erotic about it now at all. I only see hatred and disgust towards her. In a way that means my NTR fetish is healing, in another way it means I might becoming a violent person. IDK, but I'd rather be a killer than a kuck
>he bites her directly around the nipple
I will have to use my own hatred in order to change myself so that I can love myself.
Hatred like love can make you fight harder than you've ever have before. I suppose they are two sides of the same coin.
Go look up vore fetish stuff and you'll see that it's VERY different.
>I will have to use my own hatred in order to change myself so that I can love myself.
If you say so senpai
Have you ever hated something about yourself so much that you forced yourself to change?
You might be one of those hippies who thinks hatred does nothing good for anyone, but no. Self-loathing and personal dissatisfaction is a catalyst to progress.
You can not improve if you are content with the way things are, self-hatred is extreme discontentment.
I know you're probably a moralfag who can't see the use of hatred, but hatred does allow people to grow and change for the better.
Just look at Guts, that's literally his character, though he may be consumed by his own hatred, he still has improved his strength and skill.
I am a vorefag, I know what it's generally like. Just because the majority of stuff is people/furries being eaten whole and digested doesn't mean people don't also like gory cannibalism. And given Miura's gore fetish its clear he'd be biased towards that type of vore.
>Just look at Guts, that's literally his character, though he may be consumed by his own hatred, he still has improved his strength and skill.
That's a bad example to use, Senpai. I don't think you understand the concept of Guts' character. At least, so far in the series, his development is the exact opposite of what you're using it to argue.
Just, when it comes to that typical "murderously enraged, eternally bitter and vengeful, obsessed ex boyfriend point," all I'm going to blog is that I can relate. It's best to look at it from the angle of how your sexual-psychological implosion could only have come into existence because of you. Stop making your life and what happened to you about other people. And ask youself "Do I benefit from keeping this as a part of my life?" The answer is no, you don't. Learn from it, better yourself, and forget about it.
I disagree. Those parts where people get eaten are never even sexualized a little. I think he's doing it for shock value and for plot, not because it's his fetish. Loli and rape are obviously things that turn him on, though. Especially loli.
You can't forget something that is deep in your subconcious
Dreams will remind me. But I do understand the character of guts.
He is partially an embodiment of hatred. For men like myself with not many aspirations, striving to overcome something we hate is the main thing that keeps us fighting.
The reason I exercise, train, and try to improve my trade skill is fueled by hatred.
I don't really have anything else to keep me going.
I use the energy and emotions I have in abundance to work with.
Just as an artist would
Don't think you're funny and cute, you shameless idiot.
I don't see a need for that kind of behavior.
Are you serious? Fanservice? She's literally sex and taboo incarnate.
She's completely naked in her most important sex parts are exposed but her little wings cover those parts. She has a great design.
The other goofy ones are also great.
The one with a weird face is similar to Minister Fost.
>She looked like she was enjoying it
That was done intentionally to make you feel guilty for being turned on because it "adds depth"
I don't get what you guys don't get about this.
She's fucking her platonic love, her ideal of men, the men that saved her and gave her life a purpose.
Do you really expect it to be different?
Imagine Marina Visconti, or, I don't know, your favourite VA, JAV actress or pornstar forced herself on you, in the lewdest possible way you can imagine, while your 2 month old girlfriend is on the room.
You are being forced, you don't have a chance to escape. In some point your mind is going to give up to the resistance, and give in to desire. That breaking point might have broken Caska. All the terrible traumas that rape brings, plus the guilt of having enjoyed it, plus demonic dick.
I still confuse Conrad from Ubik from time to time. I mean you've got the cool Batman guy, the brain skeleton guy and the sexy tentacle chick. Then Miura, for some reason, decided to have two bald guys doing the Jew pose.
I honestly can't take this guy seriously.
His name is Conrad. It's probably some sort of reference but it's just so hilariously normal.
>yo! tyler, do you have sacrificial markings ready?
>yeah almost there dude
>conrad. might be based on joseph conrad.
>ubik. philip k.
they seem to be novelist, but are their works similar to miura's work in genre and thats how he got his inspiration for berserk? cause it seems miura likes a lot of western horror medium like hellraiser and that one about butterflies, which seems like it was inspired from the one movie about moths getting rid of roaches but now moths are a problem and they evolved to have human-like disguises and they kidnapped kids. but for the life of me I cant remember the name, I keep thinking it might be a David Copperfield movie or some shit.
They all have great designs, in my humble opinion, but Slan and Femto are somewhat too "clean", while the others look mutilated by design, which fits them well. And Slan has the whole "spawn from guts" thing going.
That being said, I'll just repeat myself: I don't dislike any of their designs, but I like Ubik's the most.
Also, since Femto is the false prophet, his pretty appeareance fits extremely well.
>What do you even mean with that
He wrote "Things like porn and NTR feminize men. It's not natural."
You can safely disregard him as either a baiting troll or a complete idiot who tinfoils about keking.
really? I found it hilarious when the aliens died the brain exploded comically. of course I probably shouldn't talk since I was kinda scared of the first appearance of "him" in powerful girls. the confusion was terrifying for me.
Yeah, it's a normal name, but at least not ridiculously generic or silly enough to ruin it for me, like John or Herrmann.
As a child it is quite terrifying though.
Skelettons all over and giggling aliens shooting death rays.
as a child i still laughed my ass of when they used country music to rescue the world
I was more "surprised?" when they used a motherucking disintegration ray.
he best part gonna re-watch it someday, I just hope I don't regret and it was only nostalgia talking .
should I bother reading some of those works?
In the Trading Cards, humans finally beat back the Martians on Earth, then counter-invade and genocide all Martians to oblivion, culminating in the destruction of Mars itself.
While I'm not much a fan of HFY, I would have preferred this ending, because all Martians are evil, smug assholes, and it would have been VERY satisfying.
It's humiliating, degrading and undignified, not feminizing, unless you think these things go hand in hand with the idea of femininity, whhich is about empathy, sensitivity and gentleness
metro-sexuality is feminizing
Remember how pre-golden age arc Femto was needlessly dickish and bitchy instead of completely indifferent to Guts?
>Giant swordsman with demon armor and a too-big-to-be-called-a-sword sword
>Retard cheerleader that serves as bait for dumbass enemies
>Li'l fire dagger dude
>A loli witch
>Another fucking witch
>Two healing fairies
>A mermaid because why not
>Coming soon as DLC, a mechanic with a medieval rocket launcher, another fucking loli an Indian magic man, an Indian chakram thrower and his gooinies
Miura please, nerf Guts' party. This is redonk.
In an idealistic sense, it is women's role to be subservient to their feelings. Men's is the opposite, referred to as reason and judgment, which are forms of control. NTR is all about being dominated by feelings, and losing your self direction and emotional independence. That is not masculine.
welp, color me stupid I guess, I didn't really think about how the emotional aspect relates to NTR
I always discarded it as simple sadism and assumed the genre was simply psychotic by default
>cheap and unintelligent
Griffith actually did love Casca to some level, or Guts, it's hard to tell, but in any case he sees that the two of them are obviously in a relationship and is struck with the realization that he is pretty much just a thinking vegetable and will never be able to hold someone or do anything. He is also MAD jealous, of one of the two, maybe both.
He gets a pimp body back, and then he tortures the friend who he believes betrayed him right before his eyes by taking her right in front of him, torturing both simultaneously.
I think it's hardly cheap and definitely not unintelligent. There was a lot going on in that rape, it wasn't simply NTR.
It's funny how /tg/ loves to discuss the possibility of Guts being a lost Primarch and the God Hand being demon princes.
Because the Idea of Evil doesn't quite fit.
And because Khorne is so fucking lame he doesn't get a Demon Prince, since it would be hard to twist Ubik into a servant of Khorne.
I wasn't going to continue the discussion, just a last answer to let anon know that I was wrong
sorry for poisoning the thread
>the Idea of Evil
We can't even be sure Miura is still running with that concept, since it was removed when the chapters were compiled into tanks. Not that I subscribe to /tg/'s theories, just saying.
It was basically just rape, yes, though it's clear on some level Casca liked it.
Anyway all I'm saying is there's a lot of complicated bullshit happening in that scene. You may even say that that rape was part of the "grand plan", since Griffith's seed corrupts Casca's child and that corrupted body eventually becomes his vessel to move into the mortal realm.
Guts technically NTRs casca first soooooo (well only if Griffith did actually have some feelings for her like implied b4 eclipse)
Farnese has been NTRd so many times Serpico is probably suicidal about how loose his Oujo bitch is (well if he still has feelings for her, which is ambiguous at best)
casca was thinking with her vag not her heart. Any affection towards Griffith/Femto in the scene was probably because she was so delirious she was just happy to see he was no longer a crip.
Or maybe i'm just a waifufag and interpreted it wrong idk
of course she was just an thematic vessel for griffith to rape guts without it being gay
I don't recall, but far as I know the Godhand exists "outside of time" or something, which is why the legend of that fallen city mentions either 4 or 5 "angels". So, if they came from the future I wouldn't be surprised.
>We can't even be sure Miura is still running with that concept
He removed it because it spoiled things too soon.
He might have changed his opinion on using it at all by now, but unless he releases a chapter that removes IoE in some way, we should treat it as canon.
>Not that I subscribe to /tg/'s theories
Eh, you might make it work if you assume that IoE is a minor Chaos God, but Guts is still, well, too underwhelming to be a demidivine, five-mile-squid fishing Primarch.
>Guts technically NTRs casca first
She never had a relationship with Griffith that wasn't master-servant, so I don't think this counts either, even if they had mutual feelings.
It's probably retconned out already but it showed that Femto still had human fear and psychosis, he remembers the traumatic experiences he had being that fat governor guy's bitchboy so he is subconsciously avoiding actual sex with a man while acting on his instincts and finding the next best thing
Really the only reason Griffith and Guts didn't bang the entire series is because they were both raped as kids, hell Guts was so fucked up by it he could barely have regular sex.
I remember watching the Egg of the King movie with my friend once and he thought i was showing him legitimate shounen-ai anime, I was so used to all the homolust subtext that I forgot it's not even subtext to someone who's unfamiliar with the series.
Only about him?
Backgrounds of Ubik interests me a lot, he's so strange and quirky, I can't really imagine what he was in life.
Slan probably has a stereotypical female villain background, Void was probably that imprisoned minister or some other thinker.
NTR, at least how it's commonly used, doesn't require sex or a previous relationship it's completely based around feelings. Even if the actual definition is "to steal another's lover" it isn't taken so literally
True story anon, I'm the OP
You had me for a second there. It really took me a minute to verbalize a defense of my assertion, which is (as I indicated with the qualification "idealistic"), a looser definition than the one you made. I don't disagree with this,
>It's humiliating, degrading, and undignified
but unfortunately that is often not an adequate motivating factor for males. In regards to that, my interpretation of it is more appealing. Guys want a reason to be men. Why not give them a good one?
>all the homolust subtext that I forgot it's not even subtext
Well we'll never get a happy ending were they just fug each other and have a ton of children.
no clue how it would work but those two would work it out somehow.
I can imagine how all the others got in. Slan did something sexual, Void is leaderly and was probably revered, Ubik is crafty and I can imagine him wheeling and dealing into a dead end, but Conrad?
He laughs and he's fat. Not much to go on.
>>no clue how it would work but those two would work it out somehow.
The Naruto way where Griffith has female child that looks like him and Guts has a male child that looks like him.
Remember the rats before Griffith's revival? They formed into the shape of Conrad. Conrad has always been associated with rats (plague). I think he's just poor health. It fits because he's fat too, which is unhealthy.
Maybe she was a slut that slept her way to the position of a queen, got caught, was sentenced to death via execution, and sacrificed everyone that was present at her execution to become a God Hand.
>It's humiliating, degrading and undignified, not feminizing, unless you think these things go hand in hand with the idea of femininity
I think they do to some degree. A man getting NTR'd is feminized because he's no longer in the dominating role that he should be in.
Nothing is ever entirely original. All things are inspired by others.
She should have at least one vagina on her head
Wasn't void the really smart dude imprisoned in the tower of conviction years ago
>Didn't Miura say he took hentai scenes as references for that scene?
Yeesh. That explains why I prefer how the original anime does it.
The scene's muted except for the music, focusing more on the grief and horror of the moment than on the act of the rape itself.
That was probably Griffith still being asspained over what he saw as Guts' betrayal by leaving him.
He's over it now, or at least thinks he is, and he's got more important shit to do.
My favorite is the one at the tower, I think. short but really intense.
The anime's music was really weird sometimes. Like every time it went electronic. It really breaks the immersion.
I didn't hate the movies, but I thought it was a shame that they didn't get much further than an abridged reboot of what had already been animated.
Nice to see Skull Knight though, even if they did get CGI heavy with him.
>The anime's music was really weird sometimes. Like every time it went electronic.
I'm having trouble remembering that. I guess I'm mainly thinking of the vocal stuff they did.
Not counting the hilarious intro.
OHH kay, that was my plan already. I'm glad I read the manga first this time. In addition to the comparatively rushed pacing, the anime looks like real shit in comparison.
>Not counting the hilarious intro.
Fucking kek, that chinglish. They didn't even check it with a translator.
One of the things I like about Berserk is how disturbing cartoony designs look in a series with a mainly realistic art style, Mozgus and the whale and tiger demons for example are based on the quality art style of past cultures
The anime cuts out some things and ends on one of the worst cliffhangers imaginable, but I think it worked well with what it had.
Also, it led to the existence to dub's outtakes.
>we will never have a berserk thread which doesn't devolve into "she clearly wanted all the band to die so she can get fucked by griffith while guts cuts his arm off"
Fucking /a/ and your perception of women.
>implying casca was a virgin
>implying she didn't trick guts
>implying the band of the hawk weren't running a train on that puss for years
>implying she didn't want Femto's money
haha women amiright fellow males
>when she gets to Falconia she stops pretending to be crazy and immediately blackmails Griffith for child support saying she'll tell Charlotte
them dark skinned bitches u gotta watch out for u know this is goin down
These things are great. I especially love the part "My love for you is like a truck. Berserker. Do you want to making fuck berserker? BERSERKER"
By the way, is the guy dubbing Gaston the same guy who dubbed Goku?
Femto is a bad rip-off of the Phantom of the Paradise.
Hey, say what you will about Griffith, but I feel like all the talk about dreams in the entirety of Berserk - both coming from Griffith and from Guts really changed my perspective in life. I think it's just about the only series that has affected me in that way.
I don't even remember the story about this. Why was Griffith allowed to reincarnate again while the others didn't? Was Griffith the only one with interest in the real world and the others don't give a damn anymore
The reincarnation happens once every 1000 years. That's why only one of them took a vessel. Why was it Griffith? Hard to say, perhaps it was withing the law of casuality, or they just decided that he will be able to merge the astral world with normal one.
I think now that the worlds are together, the rest can manifest themselves, but I don't remember if we've seen anything to prove that.
If it happens once every 1000 years then it must be the first one for them. There are 5 Eclipses in 1000 years, one for each one of them.
Griffith was chosen most likely because it's more interesting than Ubik getting reincarnated storywise.
Yeah, the first one of them. Unless there is something we don't know, for example not every eclipse results in creating new godhand, or some have been godhand longer than 1k years, but others got killed and cycled instead.
>not every eclipse results in creating new godhand
I always assumed this for some reason.
Since you need the emperors behelit, and even a normal behelit is not that common to get your hands on.
I think it would be weird since those who end up bringing an Eclipse do it because it's their destiny but the bearer may refused to do the sacrifice and then they just end up being eaten along with all their friends.
Getting replaced or killed doesn't make sense since there were 4 of them when they came for Femto. Like instead of just accepting whoever was the last one to join as the new 5th member they just randomly decided to kick one of the former 4 ones.
I do kind of wish there was more breast variety in Berserk, but I also think he does it for stylistic reasons. Corpse tits and disembodied parts are a visual reminder of the living, so its really a bit more unsettling, which is definitely what Miuras going for
>for example not every eclipse results in creating new godhand
That's a silly theory. How would an Eclipse happen, and what would be its purpose, if there wasn't anybody to use a red behelit to turn into one?
I was thinking more like the candidate refused the sacrifice. I mean is it unlikely for someone to be in possession of this behelit every 216 years? Besides, they are controlled by the law of casuality, I believe if was said, that when behelit is supposed to used, it will be in the hands of it's owner no matter what.
That's why it came back to Griffith just before the Eclipse, even though finding it in a huge lake after it travelled through sewers was incredibly unlikely.
But you're kinda contradicting yourself.
>I was thinking more like the candidate refused the sacrifice
>Besides, they are controlled by the law of casuality, I believe if was said, that when behelit is supposed to used
If they have a behelit and they actually summon the God Hand with it, it's because they were destined for it. There's no example or evidence so far of anybody declining the deal.
There is no example. But I don't see it contradicting itself. Skull Knight even calls these sort of happenings - like the eclipse or the incarnation ceremony "junctions of time" from what I remember. These are basically times, events, where the law of casuality is weaker, when fate can be changed. It wasn't fated for Guts and Casca to be rescued from the Eclipse, yet they were. And so, with that in mind, I don't think it's improbable that someone could refuse the sacrifice.
>Having the potential to do something
>Doing or not doing something
>The possibility to something happening
>the same thing happening or not happening
They could do something but they decide not to do it. For whatever reason.
Refusing to make a sacrifce would justify the God Hand existing for more than 1000 years. If everyone accepts 100% of the time then Void was the one created 1000 years ago when Gaiseric got fucked.
At this point Guts "winning" would need something retarded like this.
He's completely outclassed by Griffith, Griffith has 4 other powerful friends anyway and the IoE is the one pulling the threads. I don't see how it's even possible to have a satisfying ending.
Griffith winning is the only scenario that makes sense right now. Tho Slan does seem to want Guts with them.
I'd really like to talk this thing through, because this part of Berserk is always interesting and very vague, but I've got to go. Hopefully there will be SOME berserk thread tomorrow.