>>133130936 Krillin still gets screentime. Yamcha and Ten not so much, but really nobody cares about them anymore. I loved them in DB but they've been irrelevant for so long that it would just feel too forced to have them appear frequently again.
>>133131089 I'd rather have those two there in some forced scenario over all the other moments where it's just Vegeta and Beerus stretching that one gag. The slice of life bits were the perfect moment to reintroduce the old cast and make them slightly relevant again.
>>133133909 People can be fan of DB and think Super is ass, because you know it pretty much is. Stop trying to make it a mutually exclusive thing. No budget, rehashing the movies on a shoestring budget, eve more padding than Z.
>>133132097 It reminded me much more of Buu saga humor. Silly to almost a self aware degree. Like the series itself suddenly woke up and said, "you know I've been taking myself too seriously. I forgot how ridiculous this whole premise is.
>>133135939 >>133135970 Seriously, reading the Z portion of the manga is an entirely different experience. If you can, get it. Super definitely feels a lot more in line with it's pacing. Sure there's a few dodgy episodes and the BoG adaptation was worse in every way but it's leading into a RF adaptation which seems like it actually might be better.
I'd love to see what /a/ would think of the DB manga if it was released today. The Android/Cell saga is well regarded but I swear to god it would be ripped apart to Bleach level proportions today.
>>133136253 If I were to go back and "fix" android saga, I'd seperate it from the cell saga. The androids are kind of interesting as villains since they're just bored teenagers. It would have been kinda cool if they were just trying to get to Goku for an arc and once they finally get to him they either decide not to finish him off or basically just become Anti-heroes like Vegeta and Piccolo. Then when the Cell saga starts you're actually emotionally invested in these characters when they get absorbed. Like Android 16 being destroyed was the trigger that sent Gohan into an uncontrolable rage. Even though him and 16 hardly had any sort of interaction. It'd have been cool if they had some sort of prior story together, Probably Gohan begging him not to kill his dad and the latter complying or even just "putting it off" until his dad can put up a good fight. That would've been cool.
>>133130718 The last two episodes were really really good. Comfy, fun, and made me laugh. Excited for the Freeza Arc, but twice as excited for the next installment of the Manga with the Tournament Arc.
I've come to realize that Gohan's progression makes total sense and that he's probably the best overall person in the show. He's the polar opposite of Goku: >fights only when he needs to, and only to protect (unlike Goku, who just does it for fun), >best father in the series (obviously you can see the comparison between him and Goku), >actually gets a formal education and does something with it >More sociable than Goku (doesn't just not go see his friends for 6 months, which is how he didn't notice Vegeta was gone)
However, I do want him to at least be written to have kept up with part - time training (maybe with Piccolo?) at lesst after Freeza blew up the planet, and he realizes he needs to take more responsibility in keeping the Earth safe. That, or Piccolo just makes him. I want to see him get into the tournament and win his match.
>>133136253 I never really understood the hate for this arc honestly. I thought it had the most interesting premise out of all the DBZ arcs. When I first watched it I didn't expect much considering they had just come out of an arc that could have easily ended the series. Yet, I found myself much more absorbed with the whole mystery behind the androids and later Cell, not to mention tying in the Red Ribbon Army from Dragon Ball. I enjoyed everything in the Android/Cell saga up to the later half of the Cell games much more than the Freeza saga. I still think the weakest DBZ arc was Buu. Dragged on for too long.
>>133136666 >I never really understood the hate for this arc honestly Hate's a strong word. I don't hate it but it's just the worst saga in the series for the plotting. If it had gone more like >>133136427 suggested then it'd be much more interesting. Instead it comes off as a ropey mess with no real direction and no rounded characters.
>I still think the weakest DBZ arc was Buu. Dragged on for too long. In the anime but not in the manga. In the manga it's fucking amazing and feels exactly like Dragon Ball should. Pace fucking rocks along with literally no down time. It does have it's problems but the anime's shitty adaptation of it give it a worse name than it deserves.
>>133136666 The thing about Buu is that it's one of those arcs that I'd almost say that reading the Manga is a necessity. When you read the manga the action flows smoothly and everything feels concise. Not only that but Buu saga is perhaps one of the most humorous arcs of the entire DBZ half of the series. That and the overarching theme of Goku wanting to pass the torch on to the younger generation makes it a very good arc to end the series on. You can tell Toriyama was having fun with it. I probably wouldn't rank it my favorite arc but it's certainly in the top 5.
>>133137226 >I make a lot of points of why I find Buu saga enjoyable >memes That was my actual opinion after reading through the arc. If you disagree, make your points. Because right now, you're the one who seems to be spouting memes.
That makes me wonder, exactly at what moment everybody and their grandmother learned how to lower their ki? I remember that being a huge thing in the namek saga but I don't remember at which exact moment everybody learned that
>>133136520 > time training (maybe with Piccolo?) at lesst after Freeza blew up the planet, and he realizes he needs to take more responsibility in keeping the Earth safe This, he should realized this after Buu (if he kept the training, he could prevented Buu revival) Berrus (if he kept training, he could face him) and Frieza return (beating an dkilling Frieza) The last one even more because Goku fucked off and Frieza destroyed the Earth
>>133138111 >>133138057 I watched Kai, so everything was cut down. And really, with all this build up and secret power unlocking and Super God placing his trust in Gohan, it was a little disappointing for Gohan to only kick Buu's ass for about 1/3 of the ep, and then get his ass handed to him the next.
He's still a pretty cool guy, though. And he's cute as a nerd.
>>133137362 Wow what the fuck, that post ended up in a completely wrong thread to a completely wrong poster. I have got no idea how that even happened. I don't even watch Super and never clicked on this thread.
Sorry Anon, I also like the Buu Saga, mainly because of the Buu / Satan relationship.
You can twist it all you want because you get too angry at other people having a different opinion but you need to accept that this adaptation is just sub par compared to DB and DBZ. Most people gave this a chance and we have seen a terrible adaptation that fails in almost all areas.
>>133130718 DBS would be a good series if it had new characters or brought back old characters for the goofiness. Seeing THE PRINCE OF ALL SAIYANS, SAIYAN PRIDE vegeta asa laughing stock is painful to watch.
Imagine OP pic but with Lunch and that hot chick with pilaf. Or how about that indian dude?
>>133141827 >Seeing THE PRINCE OF ALL SAIYANS, SAIYAN PRIDE vegeta asa laughing stock is painful to watch. I'd much rather him be more humanised and developed than boring and dull like he was back in the Android/Cell saga. Broken fucking record back then.
>>133141870 Not same Anon, but can't you see that the posts who talk shit about Super no longer get replies? Thats the way of 4chan to say we are bored of your kind. Really, was funny to see how butthurt some people are, and sometimes even start the fire, but things get old fast.
This post had nothing informative or interesting to say. When you can actually come up with points to defend that DBS is actually on the same level as DBZ or DB then come back to me. Otherwise piss off.
>>133130718 I'm more used to the fighting driven Z, but I like Super. Toriyama always wanted Dragonball as a whole, to be entertaining. He can do that any way he wants as long as it's well executed.
I would prefer side characters have a chance to be helpful in a major fight as opposed to a power creep that seals off most of the characters. But that's been the direction of the show since Frieza, that isn't changing now.
>>133137911 I really hope the purple suit will come back, maybe with a little redesign. Having Gohan and Goten with the same clothes as Goku is nice, since they are family, but i think the purple was better on Gohan.
>>133143909 >ChiChi disallows Goku from training Gohan ever. >Goku is disappointed. >Fast forward to Buu. >Goten is not only allowed to train, ChiChi actually did some of the training herself. >Goten can go Super Saiyan with very little effort.
You would think Goku would be hyped to be with Goten, and yet he does very little with him.
>>133135603 Yajirobe has always existed for cheap jokes. He was literally the same thing as Mr. Satan only he could fight better. His role in the Saiyan Saga is exactly like Mr. Satan's in the Buu saga.
>>133144649 They lived together, but we never see them interacting much. He hasn't even been shown training Goten in any of this post-Buu material. And in spite of his childhood it's shown that Goten doesn't care for training when he's older (in the epilogue, the only time where we see Goku training him).
Really, I think Toriyama just doesn't have any interest in Goten at all. Yeah, Gohan got taken out easily in RoF, but he was still there. Goten and Trunks just weren't there. Look at these last few episodes of Super too. Goten only appears for one or two lines, and likely just because he shares a VA with Goku. Trunks isn't even there.
>>133141400 >8 episodes in >Guys just wait DBZ was shit at first too! >16 episodes in >Just wait a little longer! I shouldn't have to wait for a series to get enjoyable. If the 16 episodes are shit then odds are the next 16 episodes are shit.
>>133145034 Why are you even in this thread if you don't like the anime adaptions? The fuck? >>133145034 There was nothing great about them, i found myself skipping through the episodes hoping they'd get better.
>>133145096 Yeah, the fact that Freeza was already brought back once just to get rekt by Trunks is one reason why RF was so boring. He can't be taken very seriously as a villain, and he doesn't make a good comedic villain like Beerus either
>>133145136 >Why are you even in this thread if you don't like the anime adaptions? The fuck? Guessing that's for me. I like the manga. I like BoG and RF was okay. I like where Super's going. I don't think the BoG adaptation was good. At all. BUT I'm fairly optimistic that they'll improve RF.
I don't have to like the fucking awful pacing of Z and to a lesser extent DB to be here. As was mentioned earlier in the thread - The fight with Frieza is 4 and a half hours long and that is totally unacceptable. No one can stand up for that. For that at least, Kai was way better.
>>133141400 Nigga please, call me a nostalgiafaggot or whatever but DBZ wasn't that slow. It's probably about as slow as Super.
Wanna know what happened by the time we got to episode 16? Raditz has landed on earth, has been defeated, we know about Nappa and Vegeta coming to earth and Gohan is starting his training with Piccolo. A lot of "something" happened in those 16 episodes.
In that same time, we have >Beerus is looking for the SUPA SAYAJIN GOTTO >A joke that was funny and took a minute to explain in the movie somehow takes up a 30 minute episode
DBZ retardo-padding didn't happen until the Frieza saga, and Super is by no means immune to it.
>>133145352 >call me a nostalgiafaggot or whatever I will
>but DBZ wasn't that slow. It was though. Especially compared to the manga. 16 episodes in and Goku still isn't all the way down Snake Way. Granted, like you said - it didn't go full on until Namek but the Saiyan saga is by no means better paced than Super.
>It's probably about as slow as Super. We're already through an arc and firing through to the second with everything that was missing from the second movie. We've had a taste with the latest manga chapter of what's to come and it's gonna storm through. So far Super is the best paced series. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the BoG adaptation at all but to say that it's worse than Z is total shit.
>>133145352 I feel like my biggest complaints about Super can be boiled down to Toei animation. If Dragon ball super was based off of a weekly manga that condensed everything I'd enjoy reading it. But since it's a monthly thing I have no choice but to watch the anime, filler and a Which means it's gonna be a DRAG all the way through. Because Toei can't even pace out an ORIGINAL story that has no chance of catching up with the source material.
>>133145525 >We're already through an arc You can't just measure by arcs, some arcs are shorter than others and some have less happening than others. Beerus came to earth in what, episode 5 or something? This arc could and should have been over by the time episode 8 came along.
Compare the Saiyan Saga which has >Radditz landing >A fight with Radditz >Goku dies >Afterlife training >Gohan trains with Piccolo >The Saiyans arrive on earth >Nappa wrecks shit >Goku saves the day >He fights Nappa >He fights Vegeta Still only one arc but with a lot more going on: of course it's going to last significantly langer. It lasts twice as long to be precise (about 32 episodes) with A LOT more happening.
I agree that Snake Way was fucking bullshit, but Super takes it to a whole new level. For fucks sake, an entire episode dedicated to a rock-paper-scissors joke?
>>133145576 >Because Toei can't even pace out an ORIGINAL story that has no chance of catching up with the source material. Yeah, that's another thing: Super doesn't even have the same excuse for horrible padding that DBZ had. I have to wonder what Super would look like if, theoretically speaking, it were passed down to a different animation studio. Of course it'll never happen as it's Toei's biggest cash cow, but just think about the possibility.
>>133142837 >>133144626 >>133144626 Gohan was always had this problem. He doesn't think of himself as powerful and heroic than Goku. What happened in the Cell saga was the best example, also he just stopped training after Cell because he trusted Goku's words. If daddy says Earth is going to be safe thanks to his sacrifice, then why doubt daddy's words? I hope this is addresses in the universe 6 saga, Gohan should learn he needs to stop relying on Goku so much.
>>133144858 Love him or hate him, at least Gohan has character. With Goten, he's just... kind of there. I just think Toriyama doesn't know what to do with him. If it wasn't for editors and stuff, he would have went the way of Launch and disappear from existence.
>>133146301 Fucking hell man, Toriyama really is a hack. Literally the only reason why Goten and Trunks could go Super Saiyan effortlessly while it took years of training and great mental duress for the rest is solely so they would remain relevant during the power creep of the show. Now that the power creep is no longer important, Toriyama STILL doesn't know what to do with them.
I really wish they were just Launch'd out of existence.
>>133146191 I truly feel bad for gohan. It feels like he HAS to live this life Because he has so much potential. No one's telling Krillin, Tenshinhan or Yamcha they need to train and that if the world gets blown up it's their fault. They're allowed to retire and no one would blame them if the earth gets destroyed. At least when it comes to the fans, Gohan doesn't get that luxury.
>>133146586 You sound like a depressed kid counselor. Of course it's his fault. He has the responsibility to protect his family, and to add to that he loves to fight to protect, that's why the Great Saiyaman exists. He just needs to understand Goku isn't going to be there forever, and that he's an adult that needs to act more seriously. He's beginning to understand this.
>>133146759 Well, I can't deny that. Still, they need some serious character development. Goten is a blank slate aka Diet DB Goku And Trunks is still a know-it-all brat. They need some development. For example, I like how they showed some problems with their parents. Trunks in the second Broly movie was scared to face Broly, but was even more scared of facing his dad. Goten saw his mom turned into an egg and crushed. You'd think that would scar him a bit. Or at least hint that he's a mama's boy.
>From the very start Gohan has been told that he has incredible potential >By the Cell saga he's the strongest character in the entire series >Goku leaves >Gohan FUCKING STOPS TRAINING Seriously? I get that Chichi is a bitch but would Gohan really do that after just seeing how much damage Cell did? Did he really believe that literally nobody would bother earth just because daddy left?
But let's excuse that, let's excuse him altogether and only look at the bullshit that Toriyama pulls. >Gohan jobs during the entire Cell saga >He gets the Mystic training from Supreme Kai which makes him technically the strongest character once again >HE JOBS. AGAIN. >Fukkatsu no F >He fucking forgets he's mystic and doesn't need to go Super Saiyan anymore
Fucking hell man, Toriyama's incompetence makes Gohan look like more of an idiot than he is.
>>133146896 >loves to fight to protect Fair enough. But if I like to play street ball, it doesn't mean I want to try out for the NBA. Being the Saiyaman is fun because Gohan doesn't really need to try very hard. It's never life or death for him. >He has the responsibility to protect his family So if Gohan protected them but let the earth blow up, you'd be like "oh cool. At least he did his job."
>>133146896 I have a theory about why gohan is so weak looking.
Gohan is supressing 99% of his power level at all times. Because he is a scholar he cant walk into class looking buff as fuck. And the reason i make this theory is because when he turns super saiyan in RoF he clearly gets muscular and when he puts on his great saiyaman costume especially in this past episode he has muscle. So I think he is supressing his muscle mass that he accumulated
>>133147098 Because since the Saiyan saga Gohan was showed with the desire to protect his loves one, that's why he fights. When everyone told him to go home you stayed because he wanted to help. That's what Gohan is. When his love ones died because of his own fault edgy SSJ2 Gohan happens.
Even now I don't understand why the fuck Gohan likes Piccolo so much. Dude put him through hell while acting like an asshole and despite that by the time the saiyans arrived, he literally worshipped him.
>>133147037 >Seriously? I get that Chichi is a bitch but would Gohan really do that after just seeing how much damage Cell did? Did he really believe that literally nobody would bother earth just because daddy left?
To be fair he was right. Nothing bad happened since Daddy left. Also Goku's pretty spot on.
>Raditz came to earth looking for Goku >Vegeta and Nappa came to earth because Piccolo blabbed his mouth to Raditz about the dragonballs, who again, would not have been there if not for Goku > Freeza and King Cold came to earth to get revenge on Goku >Dr. Gero created 17, 18, 19, Himself AND Cell all for the sole purpose of getting rid of Goku. >Beerus came to earth because he was driven by a prophecy he would fight a Super Saiyan God, which turned out to be Goku. >Freeza is brought back to life and comes to destroy the Earth after a brief period of training as a way to get back at Goku and Vegeta.
To be honest, the only villain who showed up on earth without any relationship to Goku was Buu. And even he probably wouldn't have been awakened if Vegeta wasn't so hell bent on fighting Goku.
>>133147051 I always assumed he stopped using Launch because she stopped being funny. I mean in later Dragon ball, Launch is basically never in her blue haired form because at least Blonde Launch had some character. I feel like she wasn't "forgotten" as much as she was unceremoniously written out. "Hey I don't wanna draw launch anymore. So I'll just say she left."
Gohan had zero reasons to stop training. Given how shitty was his youth plus probably somebody told him how the world was always in danger during the youth of his dad, it was simply logical that a new and stronger foe will always eventually appear no matter what.
>>133147396 I don't remember stuff I wrote 10 years ago. He started Dragon ball 30 years ago and he was basically making it up as he went along meaning he probably didn't have a grandiose plan or commit events to memory that would be important. I'm sure he ALSO can't remember much about Dr. Slump.
(Not to mention Toriyama's made like 50 other Non-Dragonball things in his lifetime)
>>133148050 >They pick a woman for Kid Goku's Japanese voice >They keep the same VA for adult Goku because despite getting super buff he somehow never went through puberty >Now this woman is in her fucking 60s or 70s and still voicing buff adult Goku (as well as adult Gohan) >Kai sounds like he could literally drop dead at any moment >BUT WE CAN'T CHANGE VAS BECAUSE THE FANS
And there are literally /a/utists who will defend this shit.
>>133148527 >Th-they're all great! J-j-just not th-this one! I hope you are being facetious. In any language, the original medium will almost always have better voices, in part because the animation has been made specifically with those voices in mind. Dubs that are better than the original voices are, in any language, a rarity.
We just focus on Japanese here because, and this might surprise you, this is an anime-centric board on an anime-centric website.
>>133149574 Between, I mean Either way, time was always emphasized in that they didn't have a lot of it, whether it was Goku's one day thing, Buu being impatient, or Hyper Bolic Time Chamber shenanigans.
I don't think at any point during the Buu saga (manga) do we see night pass. Although it'd be basically inconcievable to think that all happened in one day, I think it may have only been 2 days max. Buu saga was just a really shitty weekend.
>>133149821 We know night passes at some point once cause the kids pass out prior to starting the fusion training. After that, between all the fusions and failed fusions, plus the waiting time between them, you could probably add another day at most
Androids rock up on day 1, Goku gets the heart virus, is out for three days while the medicine takes effect. Vegeta and Trunks start training in the time chamber on day 4, day 5 Goku and Gohan go in, Cell becomes perfect and decides to host a tournament 10 days from then.
>>133147964 Tenshinhan has a bunch of cool techniques from his two serious battles, like multiple arms and multiplication. It's just that it's all useless in DBZ since he's always facing opponents much stronger than him, so he has to go for raw power in order to achieve anything.
Well, he has the Mafuba too, which could theoretically be useful, but Toriyama never liked villains being defeated by "cheating" methods.
>>133150719 That's what I liked so much about Dragonball. It wasn't about just being stronger than your oponent. It was about how unique and creative your attacks were. Krillin managed to stay relevant for a while because he was so good at manipulating Ki.(ie. Those two ki blasts in the 23rd martial arts tournament, The really slow exploding ki blast that killed the Saibamen, The Kienzan) and Tenshinhan had a lot of cool crazy techniques too. Even Yamcha had the Wolf Fang Fist And the Spirit Ball. Chiaotzu had his cool telekinesis, Oolong and Puar could transform. Everyone was so cool.
>>133151024 Hmm...I wonder. Would the Mafuba still kill those who used it? That also begs the question, Kami used it on piccolo, and piccolo reversed it. Neither of them die from it, and if one of them HAD it would've been moot because then the other would've died anyway. So is it just that they were strong enough to handle the strain of the technique?
>>133151010 He was only comic relief in the Buu saga. Just another character who can't keep up with the power creep anymore, but at least his connection to Gohan means he probably won't become completely irrelevant like Yamcha and Ten.
>>133151163 Didn't he beat the shit out of Gero? I mean Gero ran away like a bitch but he was clearly outmatched.
Also didn't Piccolo beat the shit out of Frieza during the scene you're talking about and was only defeated because Frieza had more forms that even Vegeta didn't know about? I mean you can say he didn't win the fight cuz Frieza did overpower him in his 3rd form, but it's not like Piccolo showed up just to get his ass whooped like Yamcha.
>>133130718 Dragon Ball Super is now getting good in my opinion now that the recap is over. Shitty animation recapping something already done and done much better was shit. Can't wait for 3 seasons from now where we get to see a shitty Ressurection of F recap
>>133152816 Freeza just one-shots the earth though. The only reason it took 5 minutes in the manga/anime was because Freeza held back too much and didn't fully detonate the core. in RoF he rips earth's core a new asshole.
>>133154426 >>133154615 Because moon people are the worse nostalgiafags, also there are women that actually can voice a male (Oz Vessalius' VA, Punchline's MC's VA). Grandma Goku is just bad. >>133154615 He was replaced.
Probably she meant the "girly things" as in certain specific stuff rather than "doing girly things". Because, yeah she has always been very tomboyish.
But what it truly matters here is that after this, we can finally say that we didn't lose Videl after all. It seems like she just lost in the bliss of her marriage with the love of her life and being a mother, but deep down she's the same old Videl, just with less teenager rebellious attitude.
It's nice to stand up for her like that in.a very casual way and props to Bulma for not taking sides with Chi Chi.
>>133134233 >When Goku fought Beerus on King Kai's planet in Super, it was terrible how badly they animated that. Yes, and then when they had SSJG Goku vs Beerus they had animation and direction comparable to BoG.
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