Accept we don't know if he died at the end. Don't make me laugh anon, if the creator wanted us to see L.L die he would have confirmed in the series and there wouldn't be one iota of a chance he survives.
>>133138378 He chose to make himself the villian when he didn't have to be to successfully join people together. It's not like the absence of tyrant lelouch is going to make 11s loved now. The timescale with kallen shows that 11s are probably equal now but it won't change the personal ideas of the britanian snobs. He could have easily accomplished this by using his status to completely equalize them. He was a britanian himself so nobody could say he was being biased for towards his people. They just decided to make him an edgewood during the last episode because meh messiah must die for deh pplz
Having a terrible sense of humor. Abandoning his forces in their finest hour to save his sister. Not fucking any of the women around him. >>133142069 >accepted his punishment Accept punishment? Whose punishment? Everyone was on his terms.
Well, for starters, Suzaku's. He was the one with the biggest beef with Lelouch.
But that's not really the point here. Even if it was all on his terms, it doesn't take away of his atonement. Self-punishment is a thing, you know. Heghting because of th was in a situation seen in many wars, that he couldn't stop fiose who had aready died, even if it meant shedding even more blood. The difference here is that he didn't plan to get away with it, he had planned for his death to give the world peace, even if he did a lot of evil, he gave his own life for the world in the end.
>>133138378 >Did Lelouch do anything wrong? >Entire world loved him as Zero >Entire world loved him as Lelouch vi Britannia >"Eh, I'll do this convoluted plan to make everyone hate me so they can unite under a common banner"
>>133145826 Most ridiculous 'punishment' ever. He 'atoned' by being a complete asshole and then got his partner to kill him as part of the plan. Half of you don't even believe he died when he was killed.
Probably didn't need to set up a God Emperor of Dune gambit in order to fix his father's sins. On the other hand he probably learned that being on top sucked and he would rather go live a quiet simple life with the glorious pizzabutt
>>133142147 >if the creator wanted us to see L.L die he would have confirmed in the series But the creative staff all confirmed that Lelouch died in several interviews. If you want to argue he's alive your only route is dead of the author.
Well he did accidentally ruin Euphie's shit. That's pretty much his only major fuckup and he pays for it for the rest of his life. But then again, who knows how things might have turned out if Charles had been allowed to continue with his plans while Lelouch was playing hippie with Euphemia.
He didn't use his Geass power to immediately infiltrate Britannia from the inside, using his bloodline as an excuse to take over the world. He could have easily Geass'd any family member who got in his way, convincing them that they had turned to his side, joining their armies with his. His first mistake was killing Clovis rather than have him swear fealty.
>>133146735 >>133138378 On that matter, why didn't he just commanded to everyone the "OBEY ME FOREVER" from the start? That would've made for a pretty uninteresting plot, but as it is we just got a major plot hole.
>>133146919 From the start he didn't know if his power had a time limit, so it was unreliable. After chalk mark girl confirmed it, yeah, it'd be a no brainer. Only he didn't really want domination as his ultimate goal. He wanted to figure out and avenge his mother's death. But then it turns out she was also a horrible person and Lulu just went nuclear after that.
>>133147163 >Too much of a risk since he didn't know the limits to his geass so to make people his slave would have been much too risky. On that note, if you don't know the limits, test them before you do ANYTHING.
>>133147518 >He did. No, he used it on Clovis and many guards before him when it was unnecessary. He should have gotten out of the warzone, thoroughly tested his powers, then Geass'd all the motherfuckers everywhere.
>>133147586 He assumed clovis could tell him exactly who kills his mother as he thought the whole family was in on it. When he realized Clovis wasn't responsible and didn't know who was he had to update his plans
>>133147586 And lose the greatest oportunity in 10 years to obtain some answers when it practically fell on his lap? I can't say it'd be dumb, but being this overly cautious would be really unecessary.
>>133147846 Lelouch obtained a peace not done by fear or by halting humanity's progress, he basically became a bad guy who would not interfere with a unified humanity leaving the future of the people up to themselves to choose.
>>133147882 Again, he didn't know the limitations until later there were definately people he could have used it on later on in the show but didn't. Rolo, Ogi, and d tard would have been perfect people to use it on
>>133147909 >And lose the greatest oportunity in 10 years He had the Geass now. He could easily make the opportunity at his leisure. >being this overly cautious would be really unecessary. if I'd just been given the power that even God doesn't use, I'd be overly cautious for a while.
>>133147972 >Again, he didn't know the limitations until later And now we've come full circle >On that note, if you don't know the limits, test them before you do ANYTHING.
>>133147972 You're trivializing it. Lelouch became a brutal tyrant in order to obtain his peace. People still suffered and died in his path to 'atonement', all according to plan. He was still a monster regardless of his intentions.
>>133148012 >He had the Geass now. He could easily make the opportunity at his leisure. He didn't know if he had it for good either. He seized the chance he had with the information he had available at that moment. Yes, it was slightly more driven by emotion than reasoning. But he only did things he knew he could do. His first failure lead him to carefully investigate the power before he used it again.
>>133148372 Please explain why Lelouch had to be a jackass so he could 'atone'. It was pointless. >>133148453 >I know you're trying to move goalposts here, but my point that Lelouch atoned for his sins in the end. My point is that he really didn't, he simply committed more sins to get what he wanted. No goalposts are being moved, you can't score for shit is all.
>>133148581 >he simply committed more sins to get what he wanted. He wanted to atone for his sins by achieving world peace and dying. He ceirtainly didn't want to die just for the sake of it or out of self interest.
>>133148581 >Please explain why Lelouch had to be a jackass so he could 'atone Why should I, when you fail to answer my question?
>>133148914 >He wanted to figure out and avenge his mother's death. And that would have been fairly easy by enslaving his brothers and sisters under his care. If he was really serious about avenging mommy.
>>133148756 He 'atoned' by committing more of the same sins, only with different intentions and a different goal. "I'm sorry I was an asshole for my own sake so to make up for it I'll be an asshole for everyone's sake." Sounds nicer but is still just as fucked up. It's not atonement. >Why should I, when you fail to answer my question? Because your question could be rendered irrelevant by answering mine. Why did he need to be a tyrant in the first place to get his peace?
>>133149141 >"I'm sorry I was an asshole for my own sake so to make up for it I'll be an asshole for everyone's sake." More like "I'm sorry I was an asshole for my own sake so to make up for it I'll be an asshole so we can achieve world peace upon my death." Don't know what you're talking about, sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
>>133149289 Suzaku is a delusional self-destructive faggot. If you think he's a "good guy hero" you didn't understood his character. And being this delusional, self-destructive faggot, he was conceptually wrong about many things in his hypocrisy, but he never actually 'did' anything wrong.
>>133149590 >If you think he's a "good guy hero" you didn't understood his character. That's the subversion, though. He's the white knight, the humble hero who pursues justice. And he's also just as selfish as anybody else, to scary extremes. Hell, the first notable thing he did in his life was to murder his own father.
>>133149590 Its interesting what the creators did with Lelouch and Suzaku. The duality of viewpoints seems to match up with their nationalities. Lelouch as a britannian believes that leading from the front and and morally questionable methods work so long as you are prepared for the consequences. Suzaku believes that change can come from within and that the straight and narrow path will eventually yield the proper result. The anime doesn't favor Lelouch's thinking so much as show the result of it, which ends up changing things for the better. In any other anime, suzaku would have been painted as the right one.
Lelouche Lamperouge falls in love with Suzaku Kururugi.
Unable to confess, he is gifted by a deus ex machina with the Geass and Suzaku's phone number from C.C. Never minding the strange area code, the Britannian immediately calls him, and is overjoyed to find out that he has a crush on him as well.
But, the next day, when he recounts the previous day's confessions to Spinzaku, he only looks at him with a perplexed expression. After some investigation, he finds out that the boy he called is not the same boy he fell in love with. In fact, he doesn't exist in this universe at all. He is the Honorary Britanian's alternate universe counterpart, who has fallen in love with Rurushu's own AU self, who too is blissfully unaware of his crush.
Hijinks ensue as the two strike up a deal to give each other their darkest, most private secrets in order to equip the other with the weapons they need to conquer the heart of their other selves. While the two chase their respective loved ones, DRAMA ensues as they begin to fall in love with each other instead and question the NATURE of JIBUN WO.
>>133150999 That's another thing that impressed me. It was humbling seeing this show explore racism against the japanese in such an unfiltered way, along with making the MC a britannian and not japanese. Have any western shows even dared to portray their country under similar conditions?
You are now realizing that more than half the series was spent cleaning up the mess Lelouch created when he accidentally Geass'd Euphie into launching a massacre. And then killing her.
That was the point where EVERYTHING went wrong. Had that not happened a happy ending was well within reach and even pretty likely, even considering the fact the Emperor and his cronies were still in power. But all that went out the window just because C.C. is apparently a megacunt and decided to crank the Geass into overdrive RIGHT AT THAT EXACT MOMENT, THAT WAS NO FUCKING COINCIDENCE YOU PIZZA EATING SLUT.
But it wasn't until Shirley died that he really realized he was beyond the point of no return and fully committed to it.
>>133150628 >Family His father? >>133150154 His cousin and uncle? They were mostly irrelevant to each other most of the show.
>friends Lelouch deserved it, Nunally ended up happily ever after with Zerozaku and the same can be said about the SC members, Rolo is the only one at fault for Shirley's death, and Euphy's wasn't his fault at all. Also, the closer thing to a wrong doing with the two scientists were not banging Cecille.
>nation By killing his father, refer to this again: >>133150154
>Also directly and indirectly genociding millions. The nuke was on the geass.
>>133151280 >Had that not happened a happy ending was well within reach and even pretty likely I've always wondered about this. What exactly would have happened had Lelouch's geass not gone out of control and he accepted Euphie's plan?
I don't really know. Euphie was pretty good at winning people over to her side, so she'd have probably gotten enough support from the upper class that the Emperor would have had to acquiesce and free Japan.
Beyond that, who knows. The whole Human Instrumentality project or whatever the fuck that was, was still going on, so conflict would have still probably broken out, but once the Emperor was dead Euphie would have probably taken/siezed the throne and dismantled greater Britannia.
>>133151699 Seriously tough, it would've detracted from the over the top nature of the show if the designs werent as over the top themselves as they were, but they probably could've done better than fucking CLAMP.
>>133149978 >The anime doesn't favor Lelouch's thinking so much as show the result of it, which ends up changing things for the better. In any other anime, suzaku would have been painted as the right one.
Lelouch understood that the ends do justify the means. He was forced to face the consequences. His mistakes were occasional accidents and bad moves, but mostly him coming to terms with ever-greater ramifications. He then used his own life as a means to an end. It wasn't atonement, it was a king's gambit.
>>133149192 Suzaku literally fought to defend people that he himself knew to be his enemy. He wasted all his time an potential. Its like if a Jew who absolutely despised Hitler and what the Nazi's were doing a stood for fought to the death for the Nazi's to succeed.
"BUT I CAN STOP THEM FROM THE INSIDE!"
Yeah, look how well that worked out for you.
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