Historical European Martial Arts Thread
Please keep it kind and on topic. Also no SCA/Reenactment please.
Because it looks cool.
Jokes aside, I'm at work know and had to take what is awailable on the net. But yes, please do dump some cool pictures of Rapier, Messer, Staff or whatever you like.
I guess this one's pretty cool
I have a question for anyone who's bought Sparring Gloves in stock sized, S M or L.
Do these gloves tend to err toward smallness or toward bigness? My hand sits right on top of what they list as S, but that was measuring my circumference without the underglove I intend to wear. Should I just bump up to Medium to be safe?
Anyone have any tips on overcoming a stronger person while binding with the longsword? Here is a video of our binding practice and all I managed to do was slip the bind and land a quick hit or eventually end up doubling out. Please excuse cell phone footage.
consider going more for absetzen; when black fencing mask does an attack, pick it up in a right ochs. Your point will be on line and you'll be able to stab him. This is the biggest thing I would practice for now.
But if he really is stronger and pushes your point down, consider abnehmen or schnappen.
But if he also goes high in the bind by going to ochs, consider mutieren or eussren nym
But if he also goes high in the bind by going to kron, consider nym es nider
I assume you are the guy with the white bib? Couple points for you:
>you move your feet before you strike, bad bad habit, you telegraph your attacks and hence get beaten or evaded most of the time. Work on this, make sure you always go with your hands first and let your feet follow, give no sign of your attack away!
>your repertoire is meager, try to train schielhau and twerhau and absetzen with stich. All of them can break an Oberhau depending on the angle and direction of attack
>when you are in close bind, forget about striking, go for a grapple, disarmament, halfswording or pommel strike, do not hesitate half a second, just go in and get nasty.
> get a better instinct for when you are in danger and when not, your opponent plays with you and you fall for his feints, do not move your blade unless you must, if the other guy fucks up a feint he is open for an attack of your choice
> you are aware that there are more guards and parries than just vom Tag and Krone? Try Hangetort with umschlagen or Absetzen (Ochs) with stich, bring variation to your game and make yourself unpredictable for your opponent.
All in all you are not that bad, it just looks like you only got the very basics DRILLED, which means when you are under pressure you only have a limited set of techniques which you can pull. Drill more, that stuff needs to get into your muscle memory! Just knowing it is not enough in a sparring situation.
Also, if you got the money for the equipment, try to upgrade to Feders, fencing usually gets better with steel.
My spes jacket just came in the mail, I feel very safe when I wear it, but it is SO STIFF! Has anybody found any good trick for breaking them in? I'm tempted to throw it in a tumble dryer with some tennisballs for like 12 hours. Do you think that might help?
Based on the video title I don't think this is free sparring. At any rate black bib has good foot work and looks like he knows what hes doing. My guess would be that white is relatively new to this.
Video poster here, I'm actually in the black mask.
I'll try to drill these more, we're both pretty new to hema, have only been practicing for a few months.
that video helps alot thank you, were currently saving up for feders and jackets.
few months, thanks
err.. yeah, were both new and looking to learn.
what am i doing wrong exactly? i'll work on it.
forgot to add that this wasnt free sparring, white mask wanted to practice binding so we both agree to stick to oberhau and the bind after the first couple engagements, thus the constant binding.
>what am i doing wrong exactly? i'll work on it.
Not that anon that criticized you but, black bib, you don't walk with your strikes, means you keep your left foot in front while you strike and lunge a bit. That is indeed not that good, you should walk forward or sidewards with your right foot and hence either increase your reach considerably, or step out of the line of attack, whatever is needed.
Good news, your basics are really good, you move fast, are agile and you keep your balance most of the time, also you know the basics about playing with distance and switching between attack and retreat fast.
I currently have no vid at hand to show you, but normally you let a passing step follow your Oberhau, if you do it right you will increase your reach by a considerable distance, make sure you keep your balance, your left foot is firmly on the ground and the step is not to big. Same goes for Schielhau.
If you do a Twer, step right (for right Twer) or left ( for left Twer) out of the line of attack by doing a passing step at a 45° angle with your right to the side and do a step with your left foot so it is behind your right foot again, by this you step out of the attack line and turn yourself by almost 90° and attack the other guy from the flank. Same goes for Zornhau.
Really hard to explain by writing, sorry, I hope you got the idea.
I'd love to see some live HEMA. Not really interested in practicing it since I'm already involved in a variety of martial arts (wish I had infinite time). What's a good way to find events or whatever? I live in the Twin Cities area MN.
You'll find most US Events here: http://hemaalliance.com/discussion/viewforum.php?f=1
Afaik there is only an ARMA chapter at Twin Cities, they are a bit of a sect and shunned by the rest of the HEMA scene.
Cause of a nutcase by the name of John Clements who leads the cult. He won't go along well with any HEMA practitioners who don't refer tho him as a living sword saint, albeit what he tries to sell as super secret techniques to his followers are normal techniques described in many books. Difficult question, you can visit their sale and check for yourself, but a gentle hint, if they offer you any kool aid, get the hell outa there fast.
Learn them all. The guards and cuts are somewhat similar. So if you can find someone who teaches one weapon, you can apply that to the other two. To get small details about one of the other two specific weapons, look up some books. Or find another person to train you, or to spar with, who does use that weapon. If that isn't available, try reading techniques and watching videos for the weapons you can't study. Then apply them with your sparring partner or teacher.
Thank you, yeah I get the idea. I do the passing steps and off-line steps like you said when drill I just tend to revert back to the poorer steps when doing more free form training. I need to work on sticking to the techniques instead of just doing whatever. quick question about footwork though, when i go for a schielhau should i step? Ive tried it both ways and seem much more successful when i remove the step.
>when i go for a schielhau should i step?
Yes, but not necessarily forward. With a proper Schielhau you can cut right through the opponents line of attack and smack him in the face, but there’s a couple crucial things about it, one of them is distance management. Adapt your distance with a step, can be forward, can be sideways (without stepping out of the line) or even backwards. In general it is good to move forward with a Schielhau, if you do the bladework right you will hit something, either the arms, the head or even the chest with some sort of a thrust.
What's the learning curve on rapier?
Been doing HEMA for three years now, but focused mostly on longsword. Tried dussack and messer, but could never really get into it.
Of the weapons I've studied, I progressed slowest with rapier. The techniques in rapier are reasonably intuitive, and there was a lot of overlap in theory with the things I did before. The reason it was such slow going was that I couldn't progress much until I had greatly strengthened a couple under-utilized muscle groups.
It's not like longsword where you use your entire body to move the sword. If your wrist isn't strong enough, there are things in rapier that are impossible to do. Rapiers feel very heavy in the hand when you aren't used to them.
Can anyone recommend a good site for buying (metal) swords, specifically rapiers? I'm not looking for battle ready blades, just something with solid construction and accurate weight that I can use for training metal on metal.
I'm clearly no expert on longsword but I'm hoping one of you might be. In this video the instructor insists on performing the schielhau with the false edge, but why? While it may be supported by the treatises I can't think of any benefit this actually provides. When done with the true edge the crossguard is in a much better position to protect the hand with no negative effect on thrusting ability. I've drilled this many times both ways and find that my schielhau is stronger and faster when done with the true edge. Hoping I'm missing something here.
Apart from that the thing that makes a sheilhau from the right, by a right hander, a sheilhau is that it lands with the false edge...
The wrist positions give you superior leverage in the bind.
By turining your wirst you are in better postion to raise your hilt high above your head and cut the Obere Blöße with your false edge.
Remeber: It is supposed to work especially well against opponents who try do Einlaufen/are very strong in the forward motion.
If your Schielhau/Schillerhaw comes out a little bit too short, you are still in supperior postion on his inside and with your point in his face.
So is it alright to continue using the true edge if my intent is to strike the head/right shoulder and not to work further from the bind with my shielhau? I mean I can still twer just as easily afterwards, even thrusting feels more natural this way for me. Or should I stop calling it shielhau at this point?
I suppose, I mean I perform the rest of the technique as the shielhau is demonstrated in the video, aiming slightly off target, allowing my opponents momentum to pull the blade into there head, turning on my right hip, etc. its just I dont use the false edge.
a lot more control and better angles
much more oomph to force the opponents blade off line,
a couple inches more reach
body completely hidden behind the blade
one of the main reasons is the reaction of your opponent. If you are in langort and a guy strikes to you with a right oberhau, naturally you do an absetzen into left ochs, which works fine against an oberhau, but fails against a schielhau.
If somebody is fully open, I got a nice and fast vorschlag and go straight for the head, but if somebody threatens in pflug or langort, schielhau is my preferred choice. With proper technique you are completely safe, the worst thing that can happen is that you end in krieg, but you will for sure not get hit. If you try to force your way trough the attack line with an oberhau, double hit is fairly likely.
If need help, try to take the blade in the thumbgrip, usually helps beginners with the turn of the blade.
Yep, It gets easier with time, all the false-edge strikes are big awkward at first, but they're really dope.
Only guy I know in Florida would be Ben Floyd from Kriegschool in Tampa, if you happen to be in that neighborhood you really should visit him, fun guy and a good fencer. He'd for sure be able to demonstrate you the proper technique and why true edge might not be that a good idea.
For the most part, ARMA guys do pretty standard HEMA. It's not even an issue of Clemens being wrong on most things (although there are a few widely known things he's retarded on), its just that the man is an unbelievable douche. Watch a video with him and you can't go more than 30 seconds without being overwhelmed by the urge to smack him.
I have one of Darkwood Armory's economy rapiers, love it. Its seen some pretty serious abuse, hasn't given me any problems.
Not really, it's just LARPing with a touch of realism. Pretty much just war re-enactment level of aspie. Sure, you might be having fun but any normal person would still be embarrassed to be involved.
Well either way you can't deny that "HEMA" is just LARPing with a touch of realism. At least archers had the foresight to make their hobby a sport, you fags just fuck around with swords and think you look cool.
It is a sport you moron, sports equipment, sporterized swords, competitive ruleset etc. no dress up, no fantasy kingdoms, no roleplaying. Either you are really stupid, or a disgruntled car antenna faggot, so please fuck of now.
>Replying to suck basic bait.
Also HEMA isn't a sport. It's an umbrella of activities surrounding the study of historical European martial arts. That's historical study, research, physical interpretation, martial application, training, fighting, and to a lesser extent competing.
Just because the sort of aspies who frequent 4chan think HEMA = German longsword tournament doesn't make it so. Competition is just one facet of hema, it's great to stress test techniques and to have fun, but it's not the endgame. In fact there's a consensus that if hema focuses too much on its sport aspect, then it will just evolve into another combat sport like kendo or sport fencing, and that's not the idea. It's a martial art, not a sport. There are krav maga competitions but they're clearly limited (you can't break people's arms and gouge out their eyes in a competition) but they're not the focus. You wouldn't call krav maga a sport. It's the same with Hema. (I don't care if you think krav maga is good or not, it's just an example of a martial art that is not meant for sport)
Every person ive met that was into medieval stuff were bullied or social outcasts. The whole reenacting fetish/fantasy is merely compensation for their lack of manhood/masculinity when they were younger
What is it with HEMA that attracts these trolls and bullshitters. Do people just get offended by the fact that people enjoy history and sword fighting or something?
Nobody accuses you of being an aspie or a social outcast if you like history, nobody does if you like martial arts. But combine the two and suddenly the idiots come crawling out of the woodwork to make shit up about you.
Guess it's a fencing fag compensating...I mean check that bait, thats a 2/10 at best with a lot of good will.
Anyways, filed my blades, washed my gear and bought a bottle of 12 year old rum, Swordfish here I come.
because history is about learning, martial arts are about self defence, and HEMA is what you move on to when your LARP group "don't take themselves seriously enough"
It's so fucking sad it hurts. By the way, me and that guy talking about you faggots' shattered masculinity are two different people, so I hope you know how despised you are.
Oh, so you're going to cut off his knife arm with your pro skills or deflect the bullets with the flat of the blade?
You're fucking delusional. You also think every fight will involve a knife or a gun, just because it's the worst case scenario for a martial artist and it fits your shitty little argument.
Just admit it, your little medieval roleplaying shit isn't a sport, it's a hobby and a useless one.
Are you a little too far from your closest club to come out regularly?
I've got a bit of advice. Go there. I went to a club that's two and a half hours away. I came back with an email address for a local guy who wants a sparring partner. He knows other people to spar with.
Go. Attend a meeting. You may find someone or someone there may know someone near you.
Me and the local guy are going for coffee tomorrow. I might just finally have a sparring partner to learn with.
He won't listen anon, he's an autistic faggot with daddy issues. He can't stand his son being a useless pathetic Brony Larper. He like pole arms his ass and a sword on his dick. He can't cut it in real sports so resorts to calling his swordplay Martial Arts even though it's just poorly transmitted moves from the pages of Englishmen. I bet he has a disgusting pimply acne face. Lol I bet he has a ponytail even. OMG I can see it now. Well have fun swinging outdated swords and shit and learning gay sword shoving that you won't use ever instead learning Marksmenship or Archery.
> TL;DR HEMA is for people who will never get laid with their sword swinging.
> they'll never look hot in their overpriced armor because they're fat as fuck dweebs
> should have picked a real sport so you could be somewhere and not swinging poorly made Carbon Steel swords
> daddy will never be proud and think you're cool.
> 4eva a nerd/special needs