Because nobody made a new one
Overcoming Gravity - https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7663751/Overcoming_Gravity_%28gnv64%29
Coach Sommers Mastering GST Series
>Foundation 1+2 and Handstand 1
>Foundation 3+4, Handstand 2 and Rings 1
Pastebin - http://pastebin.com/4hdf1uaP
>Safest Straight-Arm Progression (Steady State Cycles)
>Common Preqs, Video format
>Wrist Prehab and Bodyline Exercises
>Kit Laughlin Wrist sequence (video format of above)
>Rice Bucket Prehab For Wrists
>Bicep Tendon Prep
>Shoulder Dislocates for Mobility
>Proper Scapula Positions For Statics
>Ido Portal Scapula Mobilization
>Ido Portal’s Resources (Mobility, Strength, and Movement progressions)
>Homemade parallette guide
>Greasing the Groove explanation
Want to combine weightlifting and gymnastics but you're not sure how? There's an image for that.
And here's part 2 for intermediates.
Now get to posting and asking questions and whatnot.
Hey, been looking for something like this. Thank you sir.
Ridiculous programming and silly progressions in general. Pretty much the equivalent of that "fight club aesthetic" routine that's floating around.
In other news I recently got my straight arm pike press handstand and I'm getting 3x20 seconds tuck planche hips level with shoulders and 3x6 tuck PL pushups. When can I move up to adv. tuck? Should I use a different progression? adv. tuck right now feels really weird and isn't a stable position at all, but I actually was able to pop into a decent form straddle planche for 3 seconds. Won't be training the std PL for a long ass time but I feel like there must be a better progression than adv. tuck, since I've heard from so many people think it is such an awkward position.
Allright, I've been following startbodyweight for a while, educating myself and doing some research in the meantime. What I figured is that the program is great and makes all the sense in every respect. Except maybe one.
The cadence in the exercises. Some sources (despicable CC, SBW itself) advocate slow reps, while others (bw subplebbit) tell you to do them as fast as you can, as long as your form is good.
The rationale is to utilize and train fast twitch muscle fibers as well as the slow ones.
So who's right? Or does it depend on your goals? Or should you do both and alternate them in some way - if so, how to incorporate it in SBW?
My goal is strength and ability btw, I generally shit on aesthetics if it is to make strenght gains suboptimal.
For rows you can use straps around bar
But you need dumbbells for some of the iMs.
The fact is that training for both types of muscle fibers cannot be done well, you need to put emphasis on one to see results. Generally, you want to have a certain foundation of slow twitch fibers for many reasons; that be easier connective tissue adaption, easier maximal strength gains later etc.
So I gather that, as a begginner, I should go for the slow cadence and move on to a faster one... when? When I hit a plateau or after some fixed time period?
Also, does it make sense to use greasing the grooves on some of the same exercises I am doing in the program in addition to it? (Or different ones or not at all?) If yes, can I do them with a faster cadence?
In general, do you warmup before a GTG session? Are three exercises too many for GTG? I want to work on pistols and one handed pushup progressions, but add pullups to maintain a push/pull balance.
That depends much on your current level. You want to have your connective tissue strong enough to handle more advanced exercises and training.
If you are a beginner in body weight training you are looking to go easy for about 1 years time.
If you are following foundation series the best thing you can do is to follow the programming and be serious about not skipping exercises, adding rest time and not forgetting about iM.
For beginner training warm up is not needed but you can run for 5 minutes to warm up your body.
So I've been following the startbodyweight routine right now, kinda stuck on a few things.
One of my top concerns right now is flexibility. I can't do squats, likely due to hamstrings. (I can't touch my toes) I feel like I don't have a good set idea of when I should be stretching, for how long, or what I should be doing. This is also killing my handstand pushup progression because I can't tilt my torso downwards enough to be inline with my arms for pikes.
So, can someone recommend some good stretching routines that will allow me to hit these stiff areas, and when I should do them? I don't mind stretching after a workout, I just don't want to spend forever stretching after each workout if I can avoid it.
For hamstrings, I've been sitting on the floor and reaching for my toes for 20 second intervals, but that is absolutely miserable and arguably is more exhausting than my actual workouts.
startbodyweight has a stretching routine to be done after a workout, it targets legs a lot and is tailored for the exercises performed
if you're impatient for results do it on the off days too, warm up first
if you're really impatient for results look into dr Pavel's 'relax into stretching'
Look into the Jefferson Curl.
If performed correctly it will improve your pike flexibility by stretching abominals, hamstrings, calves and ankles in particular. It will also strengthen the vertebraes of your spine which also makes it a very good assisting drill for deadlifts. Starting weight should be 10 kg when you have learned the movement correctly
Yeah, but I feel like the workout doesn't really give a lot of attention to stretching muscles. Feels more like a maintence thing if anything, since it only spends 20 seconds per stretch, so I was wondering if maybe 3 sets of 20 seconds would be a bit more beneficial. I'll look into those things though, thanks.
What exactly entails a good warmup? I've been just doing a bunch of dynamic stretches + a couple minutes of cardio as my warm up.
This is a cool guide, thanks
Awesome, this is a good stretch. I have a weak back as well from sitting around on a computer all day, so this looks just like what the doctor ordered. Thanks again.
Hoping to start hitting bodyweight training hard again starting tomorrow. I've gotten out of it for the past two weeks because of school. But since finals is this week, I have a lot more time to get stuff done.
So what is a good routine for someone that wants to branch off into gymnastics? Will I be able to get stronger faster than I would weight lifting? Should I also supplement bw with weights? I don't have access to a gym right now and I only have two 35 pound dbs, what is the best rountine for getting strong, and should I get gymnast rings or paralettes?
So, what type of routine should I be building? I've been following start bodyweight to get a general feel for it, but I'm curious if there are things missing from there or modifications that I should make to make sure I gain more strength and I gain it quicker.
-Any reason not to wait one minute per set?
-Should I just workout every otherday, or should I give weekends rest?
-Should I add something else?
What type of pushup progression should I follow?
I have trouble with wrist supination, so I've been doing them on my fist since I messed up my arm a while back. The guy said I would be able to recover that mobility if I stretched it, so wrist supination exercises would be great.
But I struggle to do any pushup that requires placement on the palm...which kinda sucks. Right now I'm just cranking fist pushups.
Do some wrist prehab work. I follow the routine in this video:
For pushups, I did something like
>Incline pushups(feet up)
>Semi-custom one-armed pushup progression
Well, foundation 1 takes about 1.5 years to complete in general.
With the 12 week programming there are some exercises that are very hard to complete, like ABH and RC PE 6. Often it seems like people are giving up mentally before being physically exhausted, but sometimes mobility, unfixable slow progress in strength and lack of coordination makes people go through the minicycles for more than 12 weeks.
Beginner statrbodyweight here. I hit a massive plateau at inverted rows, made next to no progress in the last three weeks. I always fall short on the last inches of the movement.
It might be and most likely is a strength imbalance - I always had shit posture so I'd reckon my upper back isn't too strong.
Wat do? At this point I consider cheating by making my grip wider (shoulder width apart now), the cadence faster or taking longass breaks.
I have been working on the planche for six months now. I can't even do the tucked hold.
Here is my previous front lever effort:
All I got from it was tendonitis.
Bw a shit if you aren't a manlet or genetic god. Ib4 "pussy, don't be mad because you can't do it" - I disclosed that I can't do it, so it's whatever.
I seriously wonder if ANYONE except a few people who make vids make any progress.
Quick "up", controlled "down" is rule of thumb for any exercise. I am not a fan of the quick move against resistance because muh joints, but otherwise you really do become a slow-ass bitch exerting less power. You can practice control on way down.
You can read about a year of my training in detail if you felt like it. It's what Sommer recommended. In reality, I think this shit is just way harder than people (even Sommer, because muh monies) are willing to admit.
Ok, a little update.
I basically ditched trying to do a forced slow cadence, with 3 sec down, 2 sec up, 1 sec pause at the top. I tried out 1 sec down, as fast as possible up, no pauses, following plebbit's advice:
In the result, the whole workout took less time, it was a lot more enjoyable (forced breaking was kind quite a chore tbh) and every exercise is significantly easier.
I feel this approach will definitely help my morale, as winter depression made it increasingly hard to keep my schedule.
Will it hurt my gains in the long run though? Any other reason I should maybe not go down this road? Somebody stop me if I'm making a mistake with this switch.
Well, I don't know shit because I'm just getting into this as well, but a longer cadence is more work = more muscle gain. If you are JUST starting out right now, I don't think it is a big deal. Use it to build proper form and build the muscles you NEED to be able to do a slow cadence. You'll gain more muscle by challenging yourself. That's what bodyweight training is all about.
So, I'd say maybe take a month and go through progressions with a 1 second cadence. After you are at a standard place in the workout though, shift up the cadence. I Struggle to do so with pullups because lowering yourself back down over a course of 2 - 3 seconds is an absolute nightmare when you are just starting out, but I've been trying a longer cadence with pullups lately and it feels a lot better.
Yeah, it won't be as fun or as quick, and for certain exercises I really wouldn't think it would make a big deal. (Leg raise progressions for example I don't think benefit from a 3 second lower time) but in general, work towards challenging yourself for each rep. It sucks at first, but you feel a lot better than flopping around as quick as you can to get it out of the way.
i go to a gymnastics gym once a week with an instructor who makes me do all kinds of strength and skill work. Is this a good routine for the rest of the week?
3 reps, then 10% deload, 4 reps, then 10% deload, 5 reps
Decline inverted rows with pauses at the top 3xF
3 reps, then 10% deload, 4 reps, then 10% deload, 5 reps
lu lateral raises 3x6-10
3 reps, then 10% deload, 4 reps, then 10% deload, 5 reps
GH raises 3xF
Plank with leg/arm lift 2x60s
leg curls 3x8
From my humble point of view it is bad.
First out, what is missing in a gymnastics strength training routine? Handstand work! Lots of handstand work. Overhead press will not help this at all.
Secondly, what is your goal? If it is staying healthy then your routine is fine. If you plan to move on to harder skills I doubt your routine will help you with that.
I can tell you why if you are interested, and I can tell you some basic stuff to help you get along too. But I won't an essay to someone not really interested
I've been considering 2 a day workouts where I would do bodyweight exercises in the morning and then barbell and dumbbell work for those same muscles in the evening. Would there he any issue with that routine? It would only be for A few weeks.
Doesn't it say in the torrent that the videos are compressed into the pdf especially since the pdf is 700 mb, which is way more than a simple book typically is, and yeah you can play videos in pdf files typically using adobe acrobat. Also a bunch of people in the comments have asked how to view the videos and the uploader has responded to use adobe reader. Still not working for me though.
I've been involved in weightlifting and combat sports for a while (~four years), and I've been following Overcoming Gravity strictly for about half a year now on strength training. I haven't trained statics such as levers or planches.
Current Levels are Archer RTO PU, Archer Rows, Wall Handstand PU, and L-seat pullups. With 2plate squat and 285lb Deads.
I feel like progress is small (It's steady, but slow), and I don't look the way I want to look aesthetically (nowhere near how the people in the linked videos look like).
I am doing this because I want to be strong like a gymnast, [spoiler] but also look strong as fuark. I look ok right now[/spoiler].
Is it ideal to mix both weightlifting (more than just squats and deads) and bodyweight fitness to get there? And if so, is what I'm seeing here the best way to get there?
Okay, sorry, I thought it was compiled screen shots
If you want to be strong as a gymnast you definitely want to include statics. And you want to start from the very beginning.
I would not recommend weightlifting mixed in. You will only make half progress in each discipline. One thing you could do is maintainence lifts; keep 1-2 sets of minimum 5RM in your warmup for squats and deadlifts, or have one day with medium volume lifting and like 3 days for BW-training.
i thought we agreed on the new thread image on /fit/
nah just kidding. anyway, it's still too cold to go running outside and i have to do cardio. I bought a jumping rope. How much do you think i have to do to burn nearly as much as running for 40 minutes?
I'd still go running if I were you. Anyways, I wouldn't worry about not hitting the 40 minutes of running mark, but 40 minutes of jump rope would probably exhaust the fuck out of me compared to running so if you can hit that mark I'm sure you'd be okay.
I just switched from a few weeks of SS to bodyweight (better for my goals), and I'm a bit confused on doing wall planks
When I do it, it just feels like I'm wasting a shitload of energy holding there. I don't even feel much in my muscles, really. Is that normal? What should I be focusing on while doing the form?
Honestly, you might try a harder progression. I would imagine that the only people who couldn't do an actual plank even with either knees bent or arms straight.
If you aren't ready to go that far yet, maybe an incline plank might be better. I struggle to think just holding yourself straight against the wall really requires all that much strength. Remember to keep your back straight too.
Although I could be miserably wrong and all that, I'm new to this shit as well so feel free to correct me whoever.
Maybe I used the wrong term, but I'm talking about these, the 45 degree wall planks
yes, you need recovery time, you can push it up to every other day if you can pull it off without being overtrained, so 4x on weeks you start on Mondays - but training the same muscles on consecutive days in strength/hypertrophy training is a no-no, it overtrains them, hampering progress
you can alternate SBW with cardio though
What can i change about my routine? It's following the /r/bodyweightfitness routine but with slight changes
60 second holds on plank, sideplank, reverse plank, hollow hold, and superman.
3 x 8 Dips with 35 lb's
3 x 6 one handed incline pushup
3x8 step up with 35 lb's
3 x 20 second tucked LSit
3 x 6 Pull-up
3x8 Wide Rows.
Support Practice 40 second hold 20 second break for 3 minutes
Handstand, 20 second hold 40 second breaks.
You need more sets of core work, especially hollowbody hold and arch body hold (superman hold).
Throw some more handstand work in too. I think 10-15 of quality skill work is good
How are your normal pushups? I would rather go for pseudo planche pushups than one arm pushups because the benefits are much greater.
I would say support practice is not needed for you for now. You can incorporate it into your dips (adding top position hold time) but it will not benefit you much.
I'm thinking of starting bodyweight over weight training as, for the most part, i am more interested in what t can offer.
However i am still to a degree interested in at least like i lift, will that be the case?
Could i see some current bodies as validation?
Need comments on my routine. I'm just starting out.
>Upper body, core
Day 1, 3
>(some other core excercise)
>Single arm throws
As for lower body:
>Toe raises or whatever
Oh okay I get what you mean.
The issue sounds like you aren't actively engaging your core well enough. Like, do a normal plank on the ground. A GOOD plank. Even if you are a plank master, you should be able to feel some tension in your abs. Now lower yourself a lot, and you will feel the tension elsewhere. Same if you raise yourself.
It really sounds to me like your form is incorrect. Flex your abs, squeeze your butt, and most of all take a pic. Even post it if you want critique. But unless you are crazy strong in your core (which I'm gonna doubt) it is probably just a form problem. Maybe try some other variations and see if you can get a burn there - easier and harder progressions just to get a benchmark.
While p4p strength is more my focus, it would be nice to see some visual progress from body weight. is there any? I've seen the BW poster-children, but I'm assuming that they're all manlets o genetic freaks to get to the size they do, so would it be possible to see some bodies on here, as well as stats?
Why did I stop progressing on the pulling movements?
before I even could do a tuck planche I could do an advanced tuck front lever
now I can do an avanced tuck planche and I didnt progress any further on my advanced tuck front lever. My OAP progression is also on the same place since then
There could be many reasons why you are not progression; overtraining, bad eating habits, bad training program, too little sleep etc...
You need to tell us some before you can tell you what you want to know
I am doing OG routine with foundation progressions and mobility. I am eating a slight surplus
not sure why eating habits and sleep is important when I progress on pushing but not pulling movements
weighted pistol squat 3x5
calf raises 3x20
foot curls 3x20
adv tuck planche static 3x12sec
adv tuck planche dynamic 3x5
adv tuck front lever static 3x15sec
adv tuck front lever dynamic 3x5
assisted OAP 3x5
when sommers stops being a pretentious cunt. Seriously, why is he waiting so long to release these series when they're already done? I want handstand three. I've got a pike press, I've got my handstand, I needs me the one armed.
You don't have much volume in your training. Depending on how often you train you need more stimulis.
And if you have been training with the same exercises for longer time then you could be needing different stimulis.
How is your horizontal pulling strength with rows and how is your core strength in hollow body holds?
For OAP it is recommended not to do specific work before having a solid legless ropeclimb. And before ropeclimb there are various pull up progressions to master.
No one knows. Apparently, release was delayed due to a new teaching component being added.
You can still work on H2 nigger since that is also a prerequisite to H3
I'd suggest neck bridges and variations of neck bridges.
A friend of mine who was a wrestler in hs told me that when his coach incorporated handstand work into his team's exercises, everyone's performance shot up after a few weeks. Apparently handstand work is very good for wrestlers, although I'm not entirely sure why. Also, that's just anecdotal evidence, so take it with a grain of salt.
Get your rows and pull ups straight and worry about cope climbs later.
Probably not master the first ones but you should most likely fit in at week 1 unless you have some serious condition.
Bridge work progression into neck bridge (armless). But it takes some time to progress safely into putting that much stress on your neck.
neck bridges for neck strength and general bridging for escapes from the bottom in ground fighting
my judo club does neck bridges as part of the warmup, beginners do it too from the start, neck is pretty well muscled and from what I've seen you can do it pretty quickly without problems
btw, anyone knows a good bridge progression? convict conditioning has one, but the trust I have in that book is null
Also, pistol squats are a perfect exercise for doing those one legged sweeps / throws, I'm the best thrower in my judo accounting for experience thanks to doing lots of pistols
Didn't know about handstand work though. Sounds good.
Also, look up that mace training from art of manliness. It is supposed to be made for some ancient wrestlers from the east or some shit.
Foundation series have very good mobility drills in the front lever progressions that eventually will lead to full bridge. And we are not talking about everyday bridges performed by ignorant idiots; we are talking about bridges to gold standard in gymnastics.
Which also leads me on neck bridge from the beginning. What do you define as a neck bridge? Here is my definition although it is not legitimate in any professional way:
Legs straight, feet together knees together, pelvis tilted posteriorly (hips are hinged instead of lower back arched) and head on ground. Holding perfect form might be difficult for beginners since they either do not have sufficient range of motion or lack the strength in various areas which could lead to lower back pain, neck pain and overall stiffness
>you should most likely fit in at week 1 unless you have some serious condition.
Yeah, the first month isn't really a problem. The static holds and the first manna progressions are pretty tough, though. How are you supposed to deal with a failed workout/week/cycle?
Keep at it until mastery. But keep your deload weeks in sync. You might have to alter rep/set numbers in deload week for failed mastery so that they match half of the total reps/hold time you are testing for normally.
He was a long-time student of Sommer so most of his work is a copy of the foundation and handstand series as well as the upcoming stretch series and movement series. He is going to get a serious problem once M1 is out since movement is all Ido is about, and I am 99% sure that Sommer's series are WAY BETTER than what Ido teaches. Also, they are way cheaper
Many people believe that strength training is a buffet where you do what you want, and what you are doing is just as good as what everyone else is doing. Sommer is saying that GST is not a buffet and that there is only one best way; and currently that is his programs. He is also implying that if you cannot follow through with his programs you are weak-minded since you need to stimulate your ego by doing "fun" stuff instead of actually doing your consistent hard work with the boring stuff and earn your right to do "the funny parts". I understand why people get mad but he is right though
>Keep at it until mastery.
How do you do this, though? I don't think he talks about failure in Foundation One. Am I supposed to repeat the month I failed (week 5 or week 9) or start from week 1 every time I fail? Or do I just repeat the week until I get it?
The Startbodyweight basic routine is just "Do all the exercises in a day then skip next day"? Or am I not reading that well?
Also Why isnt this on /fit/ anymore? at least there it was more active. It would last a one or two days, in here it lasts a month.
He also banned kit laughlin, yuri marmerstein and other really smart people just because they proposed slightly different methods for some skills. He's a fucking lunatic. I understand why people don't like him, but the reddit definitely recognizes that his program is fantastic.
Is his program amazing? Yeah. Is it perfect for everyone? No. Lot's of people would reccomend using planche leans, back lever and straight arm press handstands as your only planche training for example, and for a lot of people, that would be more effective.
Also 5x60s arch body holds are dumb and people will 100% of the time lose that level of endurance/skill after moving up progressions.
There is a lot of unbacked opinions in your post. Let's start with the first one.
It sucks that those people were banned from the site, they are in no doubt very knowledgeful. In my opinion they were banned for business purposes. Rumors say Kit Laughlin was to enter collaboration with Sommer but I guess Kit Laughlin wanted freeware whereas Sommer wanted payment for his work. So he was banned since he could essentially give away free information about stretching after Stretch 1 would come out. Yuri is a handstand guru and was probably banned for the same reason as above in the wake of H1. I actually remember a post by Sommer where he recommended people to attend a seminar of Yuris, but that was before H1. Sommer stated that Ido Portal was banned for unprofessional behaviour which makes a lot of sense if you have followed him on facebook, he is so rude. I don't think Joshua Naterman is banned but he has chosen his own route around GB and perhaps that is why he is not banned. These are all speculations of mine.
But his program is perfect for almost everyone except for those with specific injuries. When you say "lots of people" I guess they do not have much experience except for with their own training, and just because it works for them it does not mean that foundation would not have made them progress better in the end. It is also important to remember that foundation is not just a strength program but it also builds up work capacity for a performance longer just busting out a skill or 2 and then fatigue.
Handstand press and backlever do not carry much over to planche. I have yet to see people having done those and then achieving a perfect planche. Backlever only helps keeping the lower body in position and handstand press is a whole other pushing plane. Not to mention that those in themselves are quite advanced and takes time to learn properly unless you bad form, torn biceps or elbow tendinitis. On that ground I disagree that it would be more effective.
Arch body holds are not dumb. I give that exercise credit for being the only one to fix my lower back injury by curing my anterior pelvic tilt and loosening up my tight hip flexors. Other than that it gives nice spine mobility and shoulder range of motion. The point of this exercise is to increase endurance to have a base to later build upon, both to prevent later stall in progress but also to prevent later injuries.
Yes, you will most likely lose just a little bit of the endurance... unless you keep it in your warm up as recommended.
I am not trying to sound rude with my posts here but you are assuming a lot of incorrect things. I am happy to clear any further misconceptions if you are interested
Héhéhéhé, do the handstand goy.
We can agree to disagree on his methods of running the forum, as that is rather irrelevant in comparison to our disagreement on his training methods.
When I say "lots of people" I mean gymnastics coaches in my local area who have had athletes competing at the national level. I don't know why you assumed that was merely speculation from inexperienced people who simply want to "bust out a skill or 2 and then fatigue"
What you say about HS press and BL is equally incorrect. BL is used to prep connective tissue as well as increase lower back strength, which is one of the deficits of planche lean over the progressions. HS press when done from an L support or tuck planche is a multi-plane pressing movement which develops an immensely strong shoulder girdle, so yes, it does have quite a bit of carryover when done correctly. Planche lean as a primary PL strengthening movement allows for much smoother progressions without having to rely on dynamic movements such as those found in F3 and F4. The lower back strength and CT conditioning, coupled with the fantastic pressing strength developed through handstand press progressions make them both great accessory work to PL lean, so yes, I, along with very succesful gymnastics coaches, do believe for many people, not everyone, HS press, BL and PL lean would yield better results than the foundation progressions.
"Not to mention that those in themselves are quite advanced and takes time to learn properly unless you bad form, torn biceps or elbow tendinitis" I don't know what the second part of this sentence means. Yes they are advanced, but they have progressions which can be scaled.
Never once did I say arch body holds are dumb, they are a fantastic exercise which have helped me immensely. I simply stated that 5x60 is ridiculous. Endurance is task specific, and 5x60s is far past the strength thresholds. I also am not trying to sound rude, but please don't assume I have an inexperienced training background.
About what method works best I am not qualified to say. But I do know one major difference between Sommer's programs and what the gymnastics coaches you know might teach. Foundation series are for adults primarily, and Sommer has stated before that children in balance can be trained many specific elements that adults cannot. Therefore there is a difference between what how Sommer teaches a child and an adult.
For arch body holds doing 5 x 60s is indeed for building endurance and work capacity. It is for building a base upon which you can safely and effectively put layers of harder strength training. It is chosen that ABH does not serve as a strength exercise but more of a posture-correcting, coordination and mobility drill.
>The condition is pretty uncommon, he said, but can also be caused by other types of exertions, such as heavy lifting, coughing or screaming. Katz said he wouldn't tell people not to stand on their heads, however.
Depends honestly. Alex raised a good point I had not considered, it can be used for coordination and stretching as welll as strength. If you are an adult starting GST, I am not qualified to give you advice, as I have never trained with people who began as adults. I can tell you that most people place the cut off of strength holds at 3x30s, take that as you will.
Correct, Sommer does have to take adults into account with foundation, but that wasn't what I was arguing. You said that the methods I suggested were inefficient, incorrect, and came from inexperienced people, I'm simply stating why that is fundamentally wrong.
I'm really not trying to start an argument over something so silly, but I'm just getting pretty tired of people reading foundation, thinking they're experts in GST, and calling anyone who uses different training methods inexperienced, lazy, or mentally weak. There are other ways to train besides whatever christopher sommer says, and he knows that. Foundation is, however, you're best bet if you cannot find an experienced coach, I agree with that.
I'm really looking forward to it.
Movement sounds pretty shitty though. I thought at first it would be exploring basic tumbling, like back extension rolls, full limbers etc. but it looks like it's just gonna be lots of explosive pushup, squat and l sit variations
I've been trying the Start Bodyweight stuff and the Méthode Lafay (being French is a plus there), but they really don't seem to work for me. First, I have nowhere to do pullups easily in a 2 km radius, so I have to do pull-ups under a table horizontally and it sucks.
Then, they advocate things like 3*8 sets. However, I've been doing stuff on my own before starting their programs and I'm used to do 4*30 pushups, leg raises etc. 4 times a week, so their programs don't work me much.
Is there something very intensive I can try out there or am I condemned to lift if I want to go beyond what I'm doing now?
First of all what are your goals?
Do you want to look bigger?
Do you want skills and mobility?
for your pullup problem I suggest you buy a pair of rings
I started getting some elbow discomfort after following startbodyweight.com's program so I took a month off then bought that Theraband Flexbar.
The discomfort isn't completely gone but it's better. Would it be safe to do the Flexbar while starting out with Foundation?
>make calisthenics thread on /fit/
>gets instantly swarmed by "muh no resistance" retards and various other forms of sour grapes
>mfw /fit/ knows next to fucking nothing about fitness
I know you're tired of hearing about this but the slowness of this thread is true suffering
Did a bit of research on this but I don't know what to believe:
Does bending/raising my knees during pullups detract from the exercise at all? My doorway isn't tall enough for me to keep my legs straight.
you should rather keep your thighs alligned with your torso and bend your legs at the knees and cross your feet
make damn well sure you dont fall or it will end up in a serious injury
don't ask me why it's better to bend your legs that way though, it's just something I know and I don't remember how I learned it
I do BWF, but pistol squats do not build sufficient leg strength. BWF has shit for legs, even elevated pistol squats are more about coordination and mobility than simple strength. Nothing can replace barbell squats and deadlifts, but upper body GST is god tier strength
yes, if you are <180cm you definetly have an advantage in that you have less lever/stimulus to move around when doing stuff.
I have several olylifters(and national champ') in my gym, they don't do pistol squats but sometime they like to challenge each other to do weird things like set of pistol squats standing on a chair with 20kg dumbell in each hand.
It does not make a big difference if you do not pike or swing. Just make sure to tilt your pelvis posteriorly. Knees infront of you is best in my opinion but it also makes it slightly harder because of gravitational surface if you know what I mean.
It is much easier to cheat with your lats while hanging. It is also a whole different shoulder plane that you are using. Floor/hanging l-sits are 2 completely different exercises except for the core portion.
Do not feed the troll
I am 188 cm. No reason to give up. It just makes it a lot harder. And a lot more rewarding
Also, do not post Ido Portal here. He is such an idiot.
yeah I used to be fond of the guy, but as time passes by I think he's more of a showoff and moneygrabber rather than doing it for the likes of it
>but he's still one of the world top athletes in the category
>tfw no one-hand-handstand
>tfw no handstand at all
>>tfw no handstand at all
oh I know this one very well
should I focus on handstand if I want to attain planche as quickly as possible? I'm really neglecting it currently, only doing Frog Stands if anything at all
dude planche is an all-out horizontal move, HS is vertical
to combine the 2 you must be elite level.
I can hold an handstand for like 5 seconds and a tuck planche for 3. But as things right now I should go down a level for each of those skills.
to achieve planche:
focus on crowstands and progressivly remove your legs as time goes on to go to a Tucked planche
to achieve HS
do wall assisted and stretch your hip flexors and quads. Also shoulder mobility/strenght is important, as well as wrist (as always)
The first is the bettered version.
I don't know about your quoting but other than his dynamic strength skills and handstands Ido is not very strong. He never had any of the skills you build to in foundation.
Also, if you read the AMA with Ido on reddit and Joshua Naterman's comments you will get a whole new perspective on that Ido-faggot
Finally found a BW thread.
I have one question and could you check my routine as giving advice also.
- Lowering body fat I should be around 25%.
- Get strong and also growing muscle.
I do AxBxCDx
A.- Chest and back
Wide Pull Ups 3 x 12
Wide Push ups 3 x 25
High Pull ups 3 x 10
Normal Push Ups 3 x 25
Close grip Pull ups 3 x 12
Decline Push Up 3 x 20
Typewriter Pull Up 3 x 4
Incline Push Up 3 x 25
B.- Shoulders and Arms
Dips 3 x 20
Chin Ups 3 x 13
Shoulder Press Handstand 3 x 15
Single bar dips 3 x 12
Headbangers chin up 3 x 10
Shoulder Push up 3 x 12
Korean Dip 3 x 8
Chin up on dip bar 3 x 10
Shoulder Press Handstand with legs high 3 x 10
Back lever progression routine.
I'm really looking fowards for some advice in order to gain muscle, become strong and lose body fat. Notice that I don't do cardio, because while doing this routine I sweat a lot.
Stats: Weight.- 77 kgs
Height.- 1.72 cms
My wrists get extremely sore during the tripods from H1. Could someone explain what I should be focusing on as far as form goes? I know I should probably try putting more weight on my head but what's the best way to achieve this?
The explanations in the book are pathetic.
That routine is absolute garbage. Your split makes no sense, the exercises for each body part are incorrect, there is so much volume you'll burn yourself out if you're relatively new and you'll make no gains or just get a shit load of endurance and amazingly little strength, and to top it all off you have an entire workout for back levers. Also that leg routine will build no strength it's almost purely endurance.
Follow fitloop if you're noob saibot, or if you're not a noob do foundation or read OG and learn how to make a solid routine. Do NOT follow that routine, that's some barstarz level crap. Also what the fuck is a shoulder press handstand.
Good luck man, I was on a shite routine kinda like that for a while and saw nogains so I want to prevent that from happening for you. Pick some goals that are strenght moves too. I think some of the best ones are
30s handstand(STRAIGHT BODY NOT ARCHED), straddle press handstand (straight arm), free headstand pushup, front lever, adv. tuck planche and back lever (if you're hands are backwards then use SSC to program this, lest you get that tendonitis),
He has multiple videos of straddle planche, he rope climbs, he has a pic of of him doing a FL, side lever is pretty easy tbh but I don't think I've ever seen him doing it, he can definitely 1xbw lunge, hollowback presses he literally has a video on, manna he doesn't have so I'll give you that.
I fucking hate ido, but he can definitely do everything in foundation except manna.
God naterman is the shit, I wish steven low had hired im to rewrite OG2 that would've been god-tier material
This is why I went here, could you please help me to build a solid routine my entire body.
I have many question, should I focus on working like the gym for example 1 day back and chest another day arms and so, or should I be exercising my entire body all the time. I've been doing bw for 6-7 months now, but like you said my gains are getting lower.
Also do you think I also should be doing cardio before/after workouts.
That foundation / read og thing sorry but newfag here could you explain me what that is.
Don't get mad you could have just change my life mate.
I've been checking out this routine, do you recomend it, also what bugs me is that it's only 3x8 when I could do more. Should I stop worrying about that and stick to the 3x8?
Just a word of warning.
If you're out of shape or overweight then be careful of the pulling exercises. My form might have been fucked or something but I started to get elbow issues from doing both row and pullup progressions before my body was ready.
Full body workouts are better for strength for beginners and intermediates. Do full body.
Foundation is a course written by a national level gymnastics course it is focussed around developing 7 elements: the straddle planche, hollowback press, side lever, front lever, rope climb, manna and a lunge with 100% bw (by far the easiest part). I'd reccommend it, but it does have its downfalls like any other program. Massive endurance requirements, sometimes silly mobility (bent arm planche in between sets of planche as "mobility") and other small pet peeves.The reason this is the case is because he has to make the program safe for very stiff and injury prone adults. If you're young, have good genes etc. you can probably get away with lower than 5x30s tuck planche or 5x60s hollow body, for example before advancing. These things you could correct if you knew about exercise science and had lots of experience, but DON'T FUCK AROUND WITH THE PROGRAM IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE. Feel free to ask me more questions though, I'm happy to help. The torrent links for F1, F2 and handstand one (his handstand course) are in the description. Torrent them and start with foundation one and handstand one. Theres a schedule on how to integrate them properly with one another.
Overcoming gravity is a well written book by steven low in which he describes ways to construct your own successful routine around bodyweight strength. He then goes on to outline injury prevention/care and then finishes the book with a massive list of progressions that you can chose from. I like it because it lets you construct a routine you will really enjoy, but you open yourself up to the possibility of slower progress and potentially even injury if you're not careful. you don't have to think about that with foundation since it's a pre-constructed program.
I'm not angry at all; I'm super happy to help you. I just really wanna emphasize a few points for you to succeed to your fullest potential.
This, the sheer quantity of stuff Sommers has written up would last years of training. You can do 5-6 days a week training on Sommers stuff and you'll have programs to work through for years. All 4 foundations series, 2 handstand series and 1rings. Loads to work though
What the fuck? How do I into (tuck) planche?
I can hold a Frog Stand for 30 seconds no problem, but the second I try to lean in with full arm lockout my shoulders just instantly fucking die
even regular planche leans and pseudo pushups are god damn difficult
Am I doing something wrong?
Frogstand doesn't give you any strength in the traps or shoulders, just wrists. Focus on planche leans until you can into tuck PL. Follow foundation progressions, they're the best I've found for PL. Do not think about skipping planche lean, elevated planche lean and PL lean bounces just because you can do a frogstand. Frogstands are a joke for shoulder and trap strength.
Turn them out the sides a bit. Like I said though, 30s frogstand won't get you a tuck PL. PL leans are your friend.
Sounds good mate.
The reason I told you to download HS is because HS1 has a template for integrating the two routines. Basically you just do all 7 Founation elements on the same day (MWF or something like that) and then HS on TThSa. That's the most volume reccomended by sommers.
When I try to keep a full grip on the shoulder dislocates through the ROM, the inside of my elbows and the outside of my wrists hurt. I have to adjust my grip on the stick so that it is between my index finger and thumb, making the exercise much less effective. What am I doing wrong?
How do I get over the fear of being inverted during a handstand?
Happens with frog stands too when I lose balance and start tipping forwards, just a massive quick rush of anxiety that prevents me from progressing
>can only do two full pushups before switching to knees
God damn it I hate myself
45 deg wall planks->stomach to wall handstands then slowly start kicking up to them. Also learn how to pirouette bail like anon said.
I've read what naterman said, but his review is far too harsh. Yes, the prillepin tables do not have a solid foundation in science, especially the parts about eccentric training like naterman said. But, in pretty much the exact same fashion the schedules for mastery of foundation have absolutely no grounding in science, and to top it all off they're completely unrealistic no one will get a tuck planche for 5x30s with minimal rest in 12 weeks. No one. Especially not with how easy the planche lean requirements are for foundation.
He criticizes the book for not having videos on the progressions. Well it's a fucking book, of course there will be no videos, but at least there are tips on keeping form, unlike foundation which barely has two sentences per progression. Furthermore the progressions in OG are pretty standard for gymnastics/bw strength although he says otherwise.
I honestly think naterman just criticized it to try to get steven low to hire him, as naterman kinda needs something like that to boost his internet popularity since he's left the GB forums.
Gotta start somewhere brother. Keep at it.
Wider grip, stretch your wrist flexors, and do the GMB wrist warmup.
>no one will get a tuck planche for 5x30s with minimal rest in 12 weeks. No one. Especially not with how easy the planche lean requirements are for foundation.
Even if you don't skip/accelerate progressions? What are you supposed to do when you get to that point, then?
I think he more meant that no one at 3x6s tuck pl will get to 5x30 with minimal rest in twelve weeks. You just have to spend extra time if it takes you more than 12 weeks. Most people won't start at 3x6s if they don't accelerate progressions. But I do know people who spend six months and up working on tuck planche who spent appropriate amounts of time on the progressions.
There is a difference between Steven Law and Sommer. Sommer has experience, Steven Law does not even come close. Olympic athletes and their coaches cannot simply wait for science to verify their training, they do what works for them. If it does not work, well then they won't do well in competition.
Steven Law does not have the credentials to just invent stuff with no grounding in science because he does not have a history of proving that his methods work.
What makes you assume that one cannot get to 5x30s tuck planche? That is in my opinion one of the progressions that can "easily" be mastered if you have followed the course up to that point. You really sound like an idiot when you rule out everyone. Have you ever asked the people who actually completed that progression?
Foundation has a forum, the book has not. And I know it is a book but perhaps it would have been better to consider another format.
If you would take a look at Naterman's posts he does not compromise his standards just for money. Or he at least makes a good work out of appearing so. You could be right, but you are making a lot of assumptions about him. And I really don't think that he needs the popularity. He is basically all over strength training fora and his popularity is at an all time high since he left gb and still continues to upload videos for free and is working on his own forums.
Makes more sense now. I can do 3x15s right now, still working on planche leans. But planche leans, frog and adv. frog should really prepare you well. It is however hard to comment on individual's progress without knowing whole the story.
If you read my post carefully you would have seen I meant in twelve weeks if they're starting from 3x6s as the template suggests. I highly doubt anyone can build straight arm strength from 3x6s to 5x30s with minimal rest and bent arm planche holds in between sets in 12 weeks. Perhaps I'm incorrect, but I just don't see it happening any time soon. "frog stand and adv. frog should really prepare you well" They don't. Both are laughably easy progressions in comparison to tuck planche. What makes you think differently? I have seen people following foundation and I have seen actual gymnasts progress with this movement independently, and I can tell you the progressions are significantly less taxing on the traps, anterior deltoid and what everyone here calls "straight arm strength." Now I'm curious, what do you base your self assurance off of? How can you call me an idiot when your claims have no evident foundation in experience outside of Sommer's methodology? You're on planche lean and commenting on progressions you haven't reached yet, so I'm curious where you get your information.
You're right that steven doesn't have the experience Sommer has, but the book is also 50$ in comparison to a 270$ course, and that's just foundation. What I was trying to commnicate was that his progressions are actually pretty standard from a gymnast's point of view. Again, this is coming from someone who has experienced various methods of bodyweight and GST from many different coaches. His progressions are pretty cookie cutter to be honest. He does not "just invent stuff."
The book also has a subreddit in which steven low frequently responds to the posts, and it used to have a forum.
I'm not going to argue our views on Naterman, as that is just gossipy nonsense. Agree to disagree on his goals.
You are correct.
>First Foundation cycle Week 7
Every week I think to myself there's no way I'll be able to complete next week's workouts but I do every time.
I'll probably have to spend a lot of extra time on ABH, though.
If I'm trying to lose weight is it better to workout more than 3 times a day? How often should I do cardio? I weight 240 and trying to figure out the most efficient way to lose weight outside of counting calories (Which I'm doing)
I've been following the reddit beginner (go back) routine for a little while on and off, but I'm having a hard time finding the time to go through the whole thing each day. Would splitting it up be disastrous? I was thinking about splitting it into 3 days:
A: push up progression, row progression, l-sit progression,
B: pull up progression, dip progression, squat progression
C: handstand progression, support work
Then follow it weekly ACBCACB etc. With some cardio on the C days.
I know for my motivation I stick much better to doing something smaller each day, without the rest days, basically, but is the programming bad? Will I be giving myself enough recovery time?
Not everyday. Do it all in one day, 3 TIMES A WEEK It's not even that hard as a routine, it doesn't have most difficult static holds. It's just something to get you moving, dude.
>also, learn to read
Can I apply this to Foundation as well?
Pic is from Handstand One.
First, sorry for calling you an idiot. Sometimes my ego is too close to my keyboard.
I do not think that there is a better way of preparing yourself for tucked planche except from doing those + the lean. Joshua Nater said that one could basically try working on leaning out into a planche. Basically, shifting weight to shoulders in your lean until you can do a piked planche. It is harder to measure progress, but I would really like to see the how well it works, also considering doable from a straddle lean. But these are all speculations and I have never seen any better way to go to tucked planche. Maybe they do not prepare you well, but that is what we got + perhaps l-sit work too.
Just a quick note. I have 3 x 15 seconds tucked planche too, but the leans are where my focus is at.
Steven's progressions might be standard for training younger gymnasts but adults need more prep work. And if he does not invent stuff he has to prove it, unlike Sommer whose results from his career speak for themselves. No one has gone through OG and achieved considerable progress, link me if I am wrong.
The book is simply not adequade. Perhaps it would have been better to try another format, but he is trying to compete with the best with a mediocre product, that gets more attention and credit than what is due. And if Steven would just acknowledge Sommer and his products but instead he pretends they do not exist. And he does not listen to the critique of his book.
Absolutey fine. I also was being a little aggressive in my response.
I agree that the lean is absolutely critical to planche developement, and I'd even go so far as to say it's the single most important piece of planche developement. my point was more that a flaw I saw with foundation was that the layout for 12 week mastery was unrealistic if one starts at 3x6s. I will, however maintain that the planche lean form demonstrated is pretty easy and proper tuck planche prep would, in my mind, involve further lean mastery. I've seen this with a couple of my adult friends getting into GST. They have the leans demonstrated but have enormous difficulty dealing with tuck planche. This becomes further exacerbated when they only warmup with leans and move onto frogstands.
Couldn't find a video for people who have trained with OG because I honestly wouldn't know where to start looking. I can only tell you that I've followed a similar training schedule to what Low recommends and I've achieved 3s straddle planche (by far my weakest point), Free HeSPU, L sit straight arm tuck press handstand, pike press handstand from standing support, and 60s handstand. I agree that OG should have some sort of network for advice better than his reddit or some sort of adjustment for adults, but I don't think his progressions themselves need "proof" because if you walk into most gymnastics gyms you will see them working. Just like sommer's progressions work on his athletes the progressions low uses are used with many advanced gymnasts, traceurs, breakdancers, and circus artists all around the countries, some of whom I've had the pleasure of training with. I think the key criticism you highlight is simply that a book is not enough for the amount of information he is trying to convey. If he got videos and fixed his lack of proper mobility developement for adults, then I think the product would be fantastic.
Not sure what you mean about steven not acknowledging foundation. he doesn't recommend it openly because it's not his product, but he's the moderator of a subreddit which openly endorses foundation. Furthermore Sommer has pretty openly shit on OG in a crude and disrespectful way if my memory serves me correctly. he even deleted these discussions of people mentioning OG from his forums. That's pretty sketchy in comparison to steven not openly recommending foundation. Whether or not he listens to the critique of his book is yet to be seen as OG is still in its first edition with a second edition coming out soon.
Also, I just remembered this particular guy who's achieved very impressive feats of strength and is a frequent poster on /r/overcoming gravity. He's also a huge cunt and I cant stand his posts:
>I doubt. Gymnas have pre built routines
Not sure what you're trying to say.
If the bald guy is a gymnast then why isn't he doing more impressive shit for a motivational/show-off video?
Dear BW patners,
Fag of the high volume routine here.
I've started the startbodyweight routine but I have a little problem on the squats. I'm doing assisted one leg deep squat, eveyrthing normal but on the next day my right knee starts to hurt and it gets numb.
However my left knee and leg is alright.
What am I doing wrong?
> Not sure what you're trying to say.
What I said. Gymnast always do the same stuff because they have to prepare for certain routines that will be examined in a tournament/olympics whatever.
Someone who does calisthenic have a wider portfolio of moves
>If the bald guy is a gymnast then why isn't he doing more impressive shit for a motivational/show-off video?
>Gymnast always do the same stuff because they have to prepare for certain routines that will be examined in a tournament/olympics whatever
Only half the reason. Gymnasts are also too busy "being elite" to care about uploading videos for an audience to see. But I agree that SW athletes go for a wider range of skills, since gymnasts mostly care about useful skills to further increase strength or as a showoff of particularly difficult skill.
Yup they do. Tuck front lever pullups when done on rings can really help bridge between tuck and adv. tuck. They also help iron out any anterior/posterior deltoid muscle imbalance, which is really easy to get when you're constantly practicing all of the flashy pushing movements in GST.
This is pretty much the perfect answer to your question. Gymnasts have actual competition to worry about. Not beating "frank medrano's super human strength."
They only have a limited purpose. Most people have problems getting the ppt down to progress to adv. tuck. It might be a shoulder problem as Ybla says but most of the it is lacking body awareness and/or core strength from not ever touching the hollow body holds
>Gymnasts have actual competition to worry about. Not beating "frank medrano's super human strength."
How does Frank Medrano have super human strength? I don't understand this. Any gymnast can outperform guys like Frank Medrano.
I have a question about the Mastering the GST series.
They never list rest periods. I was just reading on another site, and it seemed like they implied that there are supposed to be no rest periods other than the mobility between sets. So, you just do everything back to back with no pause?
He's not a faggot. It's not his fault that people find his strength impressive.
I just don't understand this divide between gymnastics and calisthenics/"street workout guys" when calisthenics is just foundational gymnastics strength.
Why would it be a hindrance? Your only concern is joint health, make sure to warm up well and watch that. You can drop weight as you go along and strength training will make it easier.
The general audience is incredibly easy to impress because they hold themselves to such a low standard.
>Wow anon, that's awesome!
>You're like a ninja!
>I could never do that!
>mfw I'm a self-taught low-rank amateur traceur.
I just want people to leave me alone and stop treating me like a circus freak while I practice.
Pulled togheter a quick file for my routines
this part is taken directly from Handstand 1
Okay that clears it up a bit.
Having a quick glance at it you are doing too much at the same time except for your handstand workout, which can be done separately from your main workout.
Your main workout should at least be cut in half. Many of the exercises in your warm up would serve you better as being in strength session
I am assuming you want critique since you post it
Since this cannot be discussed on gymnasticbodies.com because any referance to Joshua Naterman is treason - what do you think about his decline situps as a strength builder for the hollow body position? He says that with the exercise any of the hollow body position will come easily and that they should be work as skill work accompanied by pancake and pike stretches.
yeah I wanted critique :) so what should be in main routines instead of warmup? Planks, archs ecc..?
well pike stretches are absolutely useful for overall flexibility and health, but I doubt decline situps would help, since in most cases your legs would be stuck somewhere in order for you to raise up and do the actual situp.
Can someone recommend a good, effective stretching routine?
That phraktured routine isn't effective. I've noticed progress on some of the progressions but I can't help but feel that I should be improving at a quicker pace. The glute bridge -> camel progression is just retarded.
Have you seen the video yourself? I think his explanation is very simple. You develop strength in that position and having knees stuck makes you focus better on the ppt. Having your legs stuck in this exercise will in my opinion only restrict your ability to point your toes and stretch your arms overhead while in ppt; that is why he considers hollow body hold to be skill work.
You want a split or a full body workout? How familar are you with the basics? To define basics let us just say F1 PEs
So what I'm really asking, is how much rest do I get for it to be considered mastery? I was able to do all 5 sets of 15 push-ups, but I was resting a few minutes between sets. I'm assuming that is not mastery, So I would have to scale it back and work up to that point.
Better question, what is the maximum rest?
Did I ask this quesiton? I'm thinking I didn't because of the responses because I definitely had this quesiton
They way he lists it is just all the different wrist exercises. There is no mobility work aside from the stretches that are done prior as was mentioned. He also says not to giant set exercises, so that means that you would just wait between reps. But, that is the problem of my original question, how long to wait? It seems like it would simply be better just to giant set these ones.
Lol, did you not see the courses torrent link in the topic.
Maximum rest is the iM between the sets. Maximum rest between different exercises is undefined but in my opinion 2 minutes max.
>Lol, did you not see the courses torrent link in the topic
I have course access. Just because most people here do not have it, it does not mean all