Because nobody made a new one (part 3 - bodyweight with a vengeance)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRmsDjMujjo [Embed] [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAERZd8XtgQ [Embed] [Embed]
Overcoming Gravity - https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7663751/Overcoming_Gravity_%28gnv64%29
Coach Sommers Mastering GST Series
>Foundation 1+2 and Handstand 1
>Foundation 3+4, Handstand 2 and Rings 1
Pastebin - http://pastebin.com/4hdf1uaP
>Safest Straight-Arm Progression (Steady State Cycles)
>Common Preqs, Video format
>Wrist Prehab and Bodyline Exercises
>Kit Laughlin Wrist sequence (video format of above)
>Rice Bucket Prehab For Wrists
>Bicep Tendon Prep
>Shoulder Dislocates for Mobility
>Proper Scapula Positions For Statics
>Ido Portal Scapula Mobilization
>Ido Portal’s Resources (Mobility, Strength, and Movement progressions)
>Homemade parallette guide
>Greasing the Groove explanation
I accidentally left the embeds in, but I made sure to get rid of the extras for the second post.
No one was making a new thread, and it was on page 9, so I just grabbed a picture off of google images really quickly and posted this thread. If I make the new one I'll make sure to add in any new stuff.
Maybe it was only the last one. Not sure why you are so angry about it.
>make routine based on OG (not that it means much because i'm so weak that i'm at the lowest level for body weight exercises anyway)
>don't have money to go to a gym but have an old set of rings
>go to the park 3 days a week to work out
>get some money and find a gym I can work my lower body out at
>realize the last time I did a squat and deadlift were when I was 14
help. what do I read or watch to learn how to squat/deadlift
Good bodyweight lower back strength exercise for a complete begginner? I don't have the flexibility to do a press handstand progression (working on it, but it will take a while). Tried bridging, but I guess it's not too optimal... Something with reps and not holding preferably.
Cutting will cause you to lose strength. However, weighing less will make body-weight exercises easier. In the long run, it is best to cut down to a weight that you can maintain and hold there
You shouldn't use bridges for strength IMO unless your talking about limbers.
reverse hypers (I think sommers calls them arch ups no?) are a good lower back exercise. Reverse leg lifts from headstand or good too, but I am a strong believer in deadlifts. You really can't beat deadlifts for lowerback strength. They're also a generally good idea for bodyweight people to throw into their training. If I were following foundation I would swap SLS with squatting twice a week and then deadlifting once, assuming you're doing all 7 foundation elements in one day, training 3 days a week.
You may lose strength at first, but many people who do gst actually see an increase in strength after cutting, because you're lighter.
I still throw them into my cool down or warm up. They feel great for the elbows after straight arm work. Curls are my favorite to do after any straight arm strength element though, the elbow feels oh so good.
>you really can't beat deadlifts for lowerback strength
I actually think deadlifts don't really serve a purpose in bw training. Having your legs stiff while doing a deadlift can't be really compared to doing press to HS/HeS or similar exercises.
>We are talking about DL as an exercise which cannot be replicated by body weight exercises in terms of lower back stimulation. We are not talking about the functionality of DL
exactly my point. If it won't help me do specific exercises in my progression I wouldn't do it. If you want to incorporate it into your workout for lulz or legs, be my guest, but personally I'd like to focus on flexibility or other gymnastic aspetcts that would help me achieve certain skills
Exercises like arch ups and reverse hyper extensions work lower back too, but what if DL is simply better at doing that? Then you would spend an unnecessary amount of time doing exercises that are inferior.
I have yet to compare the above mentioned exercises with each other. But I have a hypothesis that evolves around that if you are fairly proficient in DL I would do those as main lower back work and then I would take 1-2 sets of the F1 lower back progressions in SL as skill work.
Why would they not serve a purpose? Deadlifts are perhaps the most bang for your buck exercise in terms of overall strength. If your goals are just to achieve cool movements for the sake of doing mad gimnastiks skillz brah, then deadlifts will still help you.I've seen people achieve FL by simply working weighted pullups and deadlifts, pinning the par close to the shins. Ive seen athletes come in and bust out a front lever, a OAC, or a freestanding HSPU on their first try simply becasue they have a well rounded strong physique. Also, if someone is even remotely experienced with deadlifts, let's say something like 1.5xBW deadlift, there is no way their lower back isn't strong enough to handle something like press headstand or press handstand.
Now if your goal is strength and size, deadlifts, without question, help a fuck ton. But you said you're not looking for functionality, you're looking to achieve fancy moves, which is fine, but don't write off deadlifts simply because of that.
You wont go to snaaaaaaappp ciiityyyyyy unless you're retarded and can't look up proper deadlifting form. That's like saying don't do any straight arm work, because you'll get tendinitis. In fact, it's an even more ridiculous claim, because there is significantly less free material on how to program straight arm strength effectively than there is on deadlifting correctly.
Squats and deads are significantly better for leg growth and strength than pistol squats and the general SLS progression
This would be an ideal setup. If you can do that, I would highly recommend it. Take it easy if you're not experienced with deadlifts though.
exactly my point. If it won't help me do specific exercises in my progression I wouldn't do it. If you want to incorporate it into your workout for lulz or legs, be my guest, but personally I'd like to focus on flexibility or other gymnastic aspetcts that would help me achieve certain skills
It's exactly what I wrote..can't you read?
I would like to see the forms of theese people you mention
>Ive seen athletes come in and bust out a front lever, a OAC, or a freestanding HSPU on their first try simply becasue they have a well rounded strong physique
I am being critical here; I do not expect people who lift to have the body awareness and flexibility for perfect execution of the above mentioned exercises. But I do get your point.
I'm worried about something, in the previous thread people said that routine pic related is garbage. How true is this, I've been doing this for over 3 months and I don't want to waste my time. Personal opinion I enjoy every second of this.
Did you read what I wrote, can't you read?
I said deadlifts transfer over to most strength skills in BW, but especially to front lever. Reason being is amazing core development.
If you're gonna be an asshole, at least read my comment and know what you're talking about.
Didn't mean the freestanding HSPU, that was a mistake, I meant to say one on the wall. The form of course was not perfect, you are correct, but it definitely wasn't on the level of barstarz or people like that, it was passable, the front lever was competable imo. As far as flexibility though, any well rounded athlete should be quite flexible, stretching should never be considered exclusive to GST, it's just more common in it.
I think that may have been me.
I strongly dislike that routine. The progressions for some of the exercises (and most of the ancillary moves) are quite bad, FL rows and OACh are much much harder than any of the other skills demonstrated, so there's a big imbalance there in pushing/pulling, no mobility at all, which is absolutely abysmal, very weak leg work, no significant lower back work, and, there's no straight arm work whatsoever, which means there are very few ways to get stronger after you complete this program, you would have to start from zero with straight arm work besides FL because your connective tissue is so far behind your muscular ability. Also no specific HS press work, which are, in Sommer's words, the best bang for your buck BW exercise, I would agree with that assertion. Also the form he demonstrates is terrible.
What are your goals? Muscle mass, cool skills, general strength? If you tell us what you want and what your goals are, we can help you come up with a routine that you thoroughly enjoy and one which will keep you (mostly) injury free and get you what you want efficiently.
sorry for the double post btw, didn't see yours when I was responding to my guys tauren and alex.
Some of your objections are wrong (there is recommended a mobility routine on the website to go with it), others miss the point (this is not a gymnastics routine) or are misguided (the author himself points to the problem of no lower back work and recommends deadlifts to supplement the routine). You didn't seem to look into it well enough before you outright dismiss the program.
Not that anon but I am interested in doing a bodyweight only routine that helps me become more agile and flexible, while also shedding a bit of body fat and becoming more cut. Just for reference, I had tried out the Athlean Xero program (if any are familiar with it) and in only a week started to see some slight results but later found out that people are getting better results from different programs, so I found this board. If i could get pointed in a good direction, I would greatly appreciate it.
>cheating on based GST
not going to make it
try going from a tripod to a HeS by putting your head on the floor and slowly raising your butt up
>I said deadlifts transfer over to most strength skills in BW, but especially to front lever. Reason being is amazing core development.
again yours are just words, FL is not all about core, and deadlifts do not transfer to most strenght skills of BW, or eveybody would incorporate them in their routines.
>If you're gonna be an asshole, at least read my comment and know what you're talking about.
you seem to be frustrated man, what's your problem?
Very fair points about mobility and the your last point are both valid. I spoke way too fast without investigating more. Understand that I had no reason to dig. Someone posted a routine and I critiqued it. When a routine is shown in such a way, I think it was a fair assumption to not prod into the website.
But, to say that recommending straight arm work is missing the point of a non-gymnastics bodyweight routine is something I strongly disagree with. Any athlete who practices bwf should want to incorporate straight arm strength into their routine. SA strength builds tendon integrity not found in bent arm strength as well as train musculature in oftentimes invaluable ways such as planche, FL, press handstands and its variations. You're denying yourself a huge amount of strength by discounting straight arm strength as something only valuable to gymnasts. I'm not a gymnast, I was a martial artist up until recently and in my gym, we trained all the time with straight arm strenght, and I promise you it helped my athletic performance greatly.
>again yours are just words
Don't know what you mean, sorry.
FL is not all about core, correct, but it is definitely streneuous on it, and deadlifts aid overall core strenght amazingly, I used FL as an example of how deadlift could help. Most people who program a solid routine, those small percentage of smart boxin coaches, circus athletes, etc. all incorporate deadlifts into their routine. My friend Jonathan Ferland Valois deadlifted 450 lbs at about 130 lbs. Pretty strong I'd say. He also is capable of amazing things. Here is a video:
So yes, strong people in the BWF community use deadlits. Most strong ones I know, do
Not frustrated, you made an aggressive comment, and I responded. If you want people to be polite, be polite yourself. Me and Alex had a great back and forth going a few threads back, and it stayed really civil.
at 2000 charac, hold on
That's what we're here for!
By agility do you mean speed, endurance, strong through a big range of motion, limber?
For flexibility, phrakture's starting stretching coupled with kit laughlin's master the pancake series is fantastic for beginners. In fact, if you have the money all of kit laughlin's stuff is the best value IMO. The stretch routine from gymnasticbodies posted in kat.ph are really good too.
The reddit bwf program is okay, missing more HS/press HS work, more straight arm work, and more mobility and flexibility, but people make solid aesthetic gains from the program, it just doesn't prep you well for high level bodyweight strength.
Chris Sommer's foundation program is pretty much the best there is at the moment. It's not perfect, like I said earlier Id swap SLS progressions with squats and deadlifts, alternating so you do squats 2-3x a week and deadlifts once, along with a couple other things I don't like (no specific hip flexor stretching jumps at me, I think naterman wrote something on this a while back). It'll make you strong, and I think it's a lot of fun too, especially after the first 1-2 years when you get to the good stuff.
Remember, weight is all about your nutrition. Caloric surplus=more muscle caloric deficit=less bodyfat. Read the /fit/ sticky for more info on getting the physique you want. It's full of great info on this stuff
Good luck and let us know if you have more questions.
In other news, I bought course access, and it's fantastic. Just wish more people were on F# and F4 to populate the forums. Thanks for the rec Alex.
For clarification, by agility I am meaning endurance mainly along with being more limber. Me personally, I am completely new to bodyweight only (not fitness as a whole though) and my ultimate goal that I'm striving for is to one day do parkour (not the crazy flips, just low to ground vaulting, rolling, gap jumps and so on. But thanks for those recommendations, I'll give them a look.
Hey guys I'm following the foundation program and I want to start doing deadlifts and squats for lower body since I can already do 5x10 sls and I am doing jumping stuff at a gymnastics gym once a week. My question is should I do high bar squats or low bar?
Impressive skills surely.
How long have you and your friends been training?
I still remain doubtful though, in my 3 months of Stronglifts 5x5 I achieved a 130kg @ 80kg bw. Subsequently I "achieved" a 1 legged front lever hold (5s clean) and now I'm transitioning to a full FL.
Sorry if my comment came off as rude, but it wasn't.
An in between progression is tuck headstand. The focus point here should be on ppt. Proficiency in this one will help ppt in full headstand.
I have always been curious as to what is considered press handstand work for beginners?
>again yours are just words, FL is not all about core, and deadlifts do not transfer to most strenght skills of BW, or eveybody would incorporate them in their routines.
You are wrong. People are either doing BW only, doing DL wrong or listening to Sommer about DL only after SLS progressions.
I am doing parkour. The only things that should hold you back from doing parkour RIGHT NOW are injuries or immediate risk of injuries (being fat, chronic deceases etc.).
explain to me how DL strength transfers to HS or HSPU.
I was objecting the fact that DL transfers over most strength bw feats (his own words), while in my opinion it's not always like this.
DL transfers diretly to positions with protracted and depressed shoulderblade, SLS and core in back/front lever.
I agree that the carryover to HS and HSPU is not that great, but I never said that either. I just want you to not underestimate the carryover of DL in general to BW exercises.
I suppose the only thing really holding me back right now is weak-ish joints and a slight weight problem, plus as I mentioned earlier, my endurance isn't all that high and not very flexible in general.
You should just start out slow, and then you are good.
DL is slightly APT. DL do stimulate some of the muscles used in a ppt position, but I would not say it directly strengthens ppt position although it directly affects some of the muscles involved.
But I am not really an expert here.
Harder by slower progress, yes, I find that too. Their primary purpose is building knee mobility, and if you are not used to articulate your knees then you will have a hard time (like me). I spend 5 months on the first one then the next ones were not that hard.
Thought this was the place to ask:
I'm planning on joining the Air-Force sometime soon (yes I know, not really work intensive, but the benefits of being fit for BMT equals extra time off before heading to Technical school) and with that I want to know how I can work a bodyweight routine around cardio. My goal for cardio is to be able to get back under 20 minutes for a 5k run. I know what I need to do for that, but I have no idea how to make gains in strength. I have possibly the worst pull up count ever.
TL;DR, I want to blend cardio and bodyweight evenly for a weekly (read 6 day) routine. What do?
It is a PE 1 iM. If there was any immediate danger it would have been noted. Just do them without trying to push out "too much" and you should be fine.
For running you should go to /fit/. For the kind of endurance training you ask for you would want to do high intensity circle training. Simply alternate days between running/circle training and up intensity as long as you are not completely exhausted.
Back = lower back or shoulders?
Hi anon, I'm the one that posted the routine.
My goals are to have the control of my body (general strength) and muscle mass. The skills like being able to perform a FL, BL, Muscle Ups and more I think it comes while I get stronger.
Thing is I'm more a visual guy, like that routine telling me what to do. I wanted to read the foundations but I didn't catch it very well.
I would be really thankful if you can help me with this (having a routine, or giving a link to it), I don't mind starting over again, if it's going to help me accomplishing my goals then ok.
If you want a good routine it has to be detailed. If you want to follow a detailed routine, you need to put an effort into understanding it. I can only recommend follow Sommer's stuff right now - it is simply the best although our discussions here bear witness to it not being perfect. Simply buy course access or as a secondary but inferior option ask us here.
If you ever want to achieve an advanced or even intermediate skill level you need to do more than just looking at some pictures. It requires you to pay attention to your form, identifying small details, looking into basic exercise physiology, being critical to what people tell you and learning how to accept long term progress instead of short term satisfaction.
I knew absolutely nothing about exercising 2 years ago, not even bro science. Today here I am realizing how much more I yet need to learn to optimize my own progress
Yes, a bit better but not "good enough". Among many things you need to look into mobility exercises, shoulder mobilization drills and stretching.
It is usually a hierarchy; the more detailed, the better. Although that is not always true
Endurance is task specific. You will gain endurance in whatever you practice, so find what exactly you need endurance in--in this case running and tumbling--and practice it.
In terms of limbering--which I'll define as strength through a big range of motion--sommer's foundation program in combination with his handstand one program are your best bet. On days you do SLS I would recommend figuring out a way to subsitute with squats 2x a week and deadlifts once a week, working up to a 2x bw squat and 2.5x bw deadlift will actually help your general athleticism amazingly. Ask if you need help figuring out how to program that into your routine if you chose to do so.
We had been training for a few years at the time. To give you some perspective, the guys who accomplished such fests from the start were probably somewhere between advanced and elite on strength standards' website. Bear in mind the difference between such a deadlift and something like 2-3x your own bodyweight is not only enormous, but they also were very strong pullers, it wasn't particularly rare to have achieved 1.8-2xbw pullups
Early core compression work, like seated leg lifts/pulses, lots of handstand work, wrist prep, lots of pike/pancake stretching, and once a bit of strength has been established, wall presses progeressing to box presses and freestanding negatives. Also my name on GB is Ybla, I figured such a friend system would exist, I figured it best to keep things simple haha
Just like Alex said, it definitely works some of the muscles involved in supporting PPT, it's not direct targetted work, but that's why I recommend deadlifts so much, it's a movement which indirectly helps your strength in so many areas and most people enjoy them a lot and many have access to a barbell, even if they don't have someone to spot them for other lifts or a powercage
Alex's advice is spot on. find out a good system for programming in HIIT with barbell training cont..
Sorry that last comment with "cont." was me too. Then just substitute your barbell training with bodyweight training instead. It's best to keep this thread dedicated to bwf. Definitely come back if you need any help figuring out a routine though.
Alex's response is spot on again, sommer's is the best for now, but you will learn a lot about your own body in the process and you will find flaws in the routine. But, those skills that you cite are very well worked up to, the progressions are pretty good in general, and, like alex said, if you need help but don't want course access, post a form check here, we're pretty competent. Download adobe reader, and find the pdf versions which have videos of the exercises in them. Foundation is a pretty complete program, but read my previous thoughts on squats and deads. The reddit routine is solid, it's not bad, but there's a lot left out of it. It would be a great routine if it involved some straight arm prep for moving to higher level skills, planche leans and german hangs come to mind, HS and HS press work should be way more intensive, and shit load more mobility--but you can alleviate this last part by a lot by following phrak's starting stretching routine, which is also free.
In other news I decided to use the foundation progressions for FL and I got up to negative front pulls--I did admittedly do 3x60 instead of 5x60 for hollow holds and rocks. Don't think my lats have ever been quite this sore.
Also, no problem the rest of 4chan pretty much interacts like that, it's easy to get sucked into without intending to come off as rude, but I think the best fitness discussions should just be neutral in tone, not too cushy like the subreddit is on people with shit form, ridiculous goals or generally shitty ideas like abandoning straight handstands and straight arm work "to feel more of a burn" nor too shitposty like /fit/.
I found you now. Just message me if you want to know more about the forums etc.
I agree on that. I went to reddit a month ago and posted some advice and read some comments. Really most people need to check their ego at the door step before posting. There was one guy who had been benching for a long time and suddenly decided to train for a planche and then posted a video asking for advice. The only thing he did right was having straight arms. Some people pointed that out and they were completely ignored.
Guys, I have been stuck on push ups for too long. Progress has been up and down. I once mastered 4 x 9 for one workout but the next workout I could not even complete 3 x 9. I broke down the micro cycles and have been consistent on 4 x 7 for a while now. Also, my push up form is perfect and I rest no more than the time it takes for the iM to be done.
There has been a lot of similar topics around at GB where people have been stuck on it for even up to a year before mastering it. I am not planning on that. What would be the push up minimum before trying PPP?
Plus sprints and skill work any good?
Sprints on the same day as training
The pushups have to be done with protracted and depressed shoulders, right?
Are you doing really intense holds for the two exercises that are draining all your energy? I don't know what your stats are but maybe lean out a bit?
I am basically doing foundation 1 + handstand work with a little modifications. Yes, my form is perfect, and no, I am not completely exhausted when I finish my workout.
I have excellent work capacity but my endurance sucks. Push ups are in the beginning of my workout to use all available energy on them.
I have tried various of strategies like breaking down micro cycles, adding rest time (I had to add 1 min. + iM before it had any effect at all which support my claim that my work capacity is great) and doing GSG with 1-2 sets of push ups every day. Still no effect.
Organize it better. Some exercises are strength exercises, some are mobility. Perhaps you could split them up and do mobility as a warm up.
With that many exercises make sure you are not doing too many sets and reps. Better cut down and do less for more quality work.
Pull ups vs chin ups. Pick only one. One will exhaust you too much for the next one. I recommend pull ups if you can do them perfect from a dead hang, no kipping or piking.
I guess you mean horizontal row? Vertical rowing is basically pull ups.
Replace handstand shrugs with handstand training. Unless your freestanding or wall handstand is solid that exercise serves little point.
Unless you can do perfect freestanding handstand push ups forget about them until then.
Too much pushing in workout B. Choose 1 type of push ups. I would recommend pseudo planche push ups because they are a better strength builder than diamond push ups.
Generally, you will need some more mobility work. Also lower back and oblique work. The greatest fault here is that you have no bodyline drills (arch body hold, hollow body hold, planks etc). If you ever want to achieve a handstand in your skill work add those on the expense of other skills.
This is my short review. Feel free to ask more in-depth questions.
anyone who tried startbodyweight split routine? or should i stick to the basic program? 7 months progression there, iam pretty used to basic routine and iam not even sore after workout (not like you have to be sore after) but iam just considering it.
I've been reading the reddit routine but one thing that is bugging me is that it separates the workout into 2 days, but I already been doing full body workouts with the startbw routine.
So what to you think about doing this:
Skill work(L-Sit Progression, HS Practice, Hangs & Support) 5 min
Dips Progression A
One Arm PU Progression B
One Arm Chin Up Progression
Muscle up Progression
Finally, Core work.
I put A & B because dips and push up wont exercise the same day.
Good suggestion. Although it is not the same as pressing against the floor it might be helpful still.
If this does not help I will try PPP to see if I can get enough reps to build some volume. And then perhaps revisit PE 2 once I have a strength surplus.
Replace some strength exercises with bodyline drills and straight arm strength exercises. Generally you are doing too much now.
Thanks! I appreciate the offer a lot, and I may be taking you up on that soon
That kind of shit pisses me off so much, but I have to say some of the mods are fucking awesome to talk to on the IRC, especially the circus guy kayetech and the powerlifter mod iscg. My advice for your pushups would be to get 5x10, taking a good amount (3+ min if you need to) of rest in between sets, then start to decrease your rest times. 4x9 is really not too bad, I would move on if I were you, but I understand if you want to be strict. Those endurance requirments are ramped up just to cover Sommer's ass and make sure people don't injure themselves. You have good work capacity, and you're joints will definitely not get hurt by progressing, so I don't see a reason why not
The transition from pushup to PPP is pretty heavy in my opinion. I know you're pretty strong, and endurance is taken to the extreme a bit with foundation if you're not resting after the iMs. You're pushing strength is strong, but if I were you I'd spend a little bit of time working diamond pushups, just for a few weeks to develop your chests and tris a little more, and then you should be good to go. This will allow you to start with a greater lean when you do PPP
On top of what Alex said, a good way to structure your routine is to center it around 2 pushes, 2 pulls, 1-2 skills (HS and manna, although that's really not skill), 2 leg exercises, and a few bodyline exercsies. This routine just seems all over the place, like you just picked some random exercises because they seemed hard. But just like Alex said feel free to ask for anything here, we're here to help
Read our thoughts on that routine above. You can do much better IMO. It's not as bad as I initially thought, but it's by no means good
This is totally imbalanced like people said: you have 2 horizontal pushes, 2 vertical pushes, 1 mixed (muscle up), 1 horizontal and 1 vertical pull.
cont... Chose one vertical push (between dips and HSPU) and do the same for horizontal push, I'd recommend you don't do OAPU because it's a pretty shitty strength builder, and add in some straight arm pulling work, german hangs work and you won't need to take anything out to add them in because they're really just a stretch+joint stress. Planche leans+PL progressions coupled with german hangs can suffice for now for your straight arm work I guess. Eventually you'll want to upgrade so to speak.
Also you need to start doing mobility/stretching now. Like I've recommended before phrakture's starting stretching (free) coupled with kit laughlins master the pancake and master the bridge (a combined 10$) should be a great start. Good luck!
That is priceless advice there, thank you. If I get to 4 x 9 again how many PPP do you think they will translate into?
I will continue this minicycle and do some testing in the deload week.
I am really happy that you are in this thread in spite of our initial discussion
From what I can comprehend this would be the routine:
Dips Progression A
HSPU Progression B
One Arm Chin Up Progression
Muscle up Progression
A - Monday, Friday
B - Wednesday
My pleasure man, I'm really happy to be posting here. I like these threads a lot I have to say, and I really enjoy our discussions. In fact, I've noticed since I started posting here I all but abandoned that subreddit.
About the PPP, I wish I could give you an accurate estimate, but I know you have a good amount of planche strength and bent arm pushing strength, so I imagine you should be fine to get right to them. Like PL leans the PPP is great because you can scale it to whatever difficulty you need to, if you lean with your hips just over your hands, that'll be quite a challenge, but based on the foundation requirement for lean (around your belly) I wouldn't be surprised if you find yourself in the fifth-seventh week category of the 10 rep cycle scheme. If it proves to be a bit too much you can always lean less. Good luck and let me know how it goes.
Better but I wouldn't necessarily follow a BL progression so much as just throw in german hangs and take it slowly (steady state cycle wouldn't be a bad idea scaling how far down you descend into the hang), if you add in actual back levers you'd be doing 4 pulling exercises, which is too much. In fact three is already quite a lot, how are your row, OAC and FL progressions gonna look like? If I were you, I'd follow Sommer's rope climb progression up to yewkis for OAC as you're less likely to develop elbow tendonitis and you'll prep yourself for regular one arm chin progressions later on and then just work front lever progressions as your horizontal pulling instead of rows, or you could just do front lever row progression, which I am a huge fan of, keeps your shoulders and your shoulder girdle very healthy. About the one arm pushups, your dips/HSPU should take care of bent arm pressing work. Alternatively, if really want to do pushups, you can follow the foundation progressions which make you master pushups, then dips, then HSPU cont...
cont...This way you'll be able to get good with pushups and you have a steady progression laid out for you. You certainly don't have to follow foundation, it's not the only good set of progressions, it's just a really easy template which sounds like it'll fill all of your goals.
by the way by the foundation progressions I mean the hollowback press progressions.
3 days a week like that seems good. Scale up or down (2 or 4 days) and see what fits you best.
Having done push ups for quite a while I look forward to trying out PPP next week. My ego has been needing progress for some time.
Also, post street workout girls for us to pump up the next workout!
Probably just flexibility.
As a test: Get on p-bars or something similar (from where you can also dip. Go into tucked L-sit and then straighten legs even though they might pass below your anchor point. If you can do that but your legs are below, congratulations, then you have a tight pike position and weak strength in that range of motion which need to be fixed.
If you cannot then you have a serious knee condition. Which should be followed by a lot of pain in and around the knees. But 99.99% are just tight.
Hey /bwg/, I've been doing stuff on my own for a few years and I've fallen into a routine and I don't think I'm making any progresse anymore. The problem is, I have more or less a single set of exercise which I've developed endurance for. 4 times a week, I go:
4*30 decline pushups
4*20 leg raises
40 side crunches on each side
40 ab reverse curls
4*15 horizontal chin ups
And then I had a tiny bit of lifting with a single dumbell I have.
on the 5th day I do cardio and rest the other days.
Before you tell me, I already now this is awful, but I developped this pretty much on my own before I was really interested in training.
I've tried reading some of the books and websites recommended here, but since I got used to a huge number of reps and sets, so when I read the progressions and the sets recommended and I see things like 3*10, it seems abysmal and I know I won't be even mildly exerted afterwards (and when I try them, it's exactly hat happens). Plus I don't want to start from the beginning and lose all muscle I've been developping while progressing from the baby stages.
Can some of you guys help me get out of this shitty routine?
Forgot to add I also do some leg work every other day. Since I run a lot and live at the top of a building without a lift, I have good legs. Maybe the only part I train correctly without even trying.
Originaly my goal was lukin'gud.
Then it changed to just maintaining discipline. But It'd still like to enjoy my own body and better myself, so esthetics and general strength are my goals.
I'm not sure what you mean about progression. I started with a basic 2*5 normal pullups back in the days and slowly made my way up to this volume. Does progression mean something else I didn't get?
progression means doing an exercize with a specific movement/skill in mind.
eg. pushups -> Dips -> HeSPU ->HSPU -> HBP
I your goal is aestethics and strenght I'd round up the volume making most exercizes something like 3x10-12 and using different progressions.
Also I'd do something like Push - Abs/Legs - Pull routine, with specific exercizes in each day
see things like 3x10 and it seems too easy. dude if you would take the time to see where you are actually at you will get to an exercise you can only do 2x2 of. by 4x15 horizontal chinups do you mean with legs on the ground? I mean cmon foundation has chinups as like the 6th step in the progression. and the reason foundation makes you do all the baby steps is because there WILL be gaps in your training. and if it rly is that easy you can do the mastery for 1 progression each day until you reach your limit, and then continue from there. I promise you that you wont make any exercise past the 12th step, and even that might be too much
>so when I read the progressions and the sets recommended and I see things like 3*10, it seems abysmal and I know I won't be even mildly exerted afterwards (and when I try them, it's exactly hat happens)
So you haven't read Foundation, have you?
My first session of PPP went way better than expected. From being able to do only 4 x 7 push ups consistently I told myself not to expect too much.
So I started with 80% full lean and expected to aim for 3 x 3 if I was lucky. First set actually felt almost effortless. Second set was harder. I could really feel the third set in my forearms and lower chest. I felt like I had more energy to spare so I busted out a fourth set, which wrecked me completely afterwards by making me sore in the chest and forearms.
I will aim for 3 x 6 within the next month and hopefully build to a good 4 x 8 sooner or later. I will probably get into trouble doing more than 6 or so like it happened with the push ups
I need a solid stretching routine for someone starting from nearly rock bottom.
I can't squat because somewhere in my body I'm too tight (Either ankles or hamstrings, so I would appreciate some solid ankle stretches. Feel like I got enough for hamstrings)
I also am extremely tense in my back because I sit around all day because I've been a basement dweller for so long. As a result, my back and neck are always hurting, so I'd like to work on strengthening those to try and loosen my back muscles a bit and not be as tense.
Thanks for advice, trying to condition my body so I don't hurt myself when I start going to the gym.
So it seems to be a theme that clearly stating your goals makes it easier for people to help you find a routine.
I do bjj, yoga, and bouldering. Beginner at each of them but have been lifting/playing sports for years and I'm somewhat fit I guess. I'm really just looking to be able to do a handstand, front lever, more muscle ups (at 7 strict on rings currently), side lever, and eventually a one arm chin up one day. What routine should i do? I'm a little lost because I can do legless rope climbs on a 20 foot rope multiple times, but I cant even seem to get the proper scapular depression and retraction for a tucked front lever.
so I have no choice but to do foundations? The thought of doing a routine for years just to achieve a few moves seems dreadful.
Should I still do the entire routine if I have no interest in the planche, manna, or single leg squat?
You will achieve more than just a few moves. Aside from the moves and general strength gains, there are a lot of noteable feats of strength on the way like body lever (dragon flags), wide grip L pull ups, korean dips, handstand push ups and middle split holds just to mention a few.
Each progression will supplement each other. As an example planche progressions will help hollow back press.
You might also end up changing your priorities. That has happened many times for me. So why not do it all now with only a little effort.
You will also need a balanced body, and manna work is probably the worst thing to exclude.
okay, thanks. If learning a handstand is also a goal I should do handstand one along with foundations one right?
I tried doing this a while back and it sort of made the foundation workouts really long, doing all 7 progression in one day, and I was also exhausted by the time I got to the last couple progressions.
Also, how often should I be doing F1 and H1 if I'm doing bjj 2-3x a week, yoga 1-2x a week, and bouldering once every couple weeks? I'm just trying to figure out when to work it in to my schedule/routine and not hurt myself.
yeah i dont totally get it. I can climb a rope and do muscle ups and shit. Am I just not supposed to let myself climb my rope for two years until I get through all the progressions?
What if I enjoy doing exercises that ARENT in the progressions? I like doing leg raises while hanging from one arm because theyre impressive and I notice good results from them. Am I just supposed to never do them again?
if you can already climb the rope then you can prolly steamroll through the progressions anyway so why not do it. if you dont steamroll then it means you have some deficits and you need to fix them before they turn into a problem.
It seems there are 2 groups of people in the bwg here
>People who may have background with sports, asp, gym or even calisthenics that are mainly following Foundation step by step, filling the gaps where they think they're lacking
>People who may have background with sports, asp, gym, other fitness related sport who think they can get/do certain skills without following certain progression or just getting bits of stuff here and there
Now, guys, I'm not saying that Foundation it's a bible, but the dude (aka Sommers) knows it's shit, and most of you guys already have a lot to do during your week (especcially >>635295
). Foundation IS HARD and is specific. Unless you want to do bad form stuff or just random tricks/calisthenic, don't do it/choose another routine.
There can be so many reasons as to why you would be at the PE 1's of F1 but still do things you mentioned.
- Improper form (kipping, bending, piking, arching, little ROM etc.) in your current skills
- Mobility issues that keeps certain strength skills at a distance.
- Improper connective tissue prep (your muscles are strong, the tissue holding your muscles to your bones are weak.
Foundation strength benchmarks for mastery is generally good and widely accepted although the template and progressions are not always the best way getting there. My point is that if one cannot do an exercise like planche leans properly, one cannot do a tuck planche either. When I say properly I mean for a decent amount of time 30+ seconds, with perfect form (no bent arms, good, back held high) and without feeling any kind discomfort.
Exactly. There are some exceptions to this main rule applied in foundation (although not commonly accepted because Sommer herp derp) but I do not think beginners to strength training should worry about those now.
By the way, I have just been put on moderation queue for publicly criticizing some aspects of foundation and making harmless jokes about GB-moderation predictability. Shit was apparently not polite...
I have written several times with Sommer asking for clarification on forum rules because I had topics and comments deleted multiple times without them being against the rules. Apparently, he got tired of me digging around and asking questions he could not give a true answer to.
Talk about not being polite now, restricting me from everything without approval without warning and not doing anything against the rules. He even gives me a bullshit explanation, why not say it the way that things are - "stop digging around, I am trying to run a business and have to maintain authority"
I cannot really explain why it is like that because that would require a very long post, and I am too busy right now.
- It has been discussed that some mastery requirements are too high in terms of endurance strength demands (5 x 15 hinge rows, chin up hangs 5 x 60 and HBH 5 x 60 come to mind)
- SLS iMs for none sports active people.
- Required active flexibility in exercises like ABH, HBR and straddle ups.
Do not just choose to skip these because of my words. They might only slow you down to some extent, and if you do not know why I call these exceptions and how to reprogram around them, then you should not refrain from doing them.
What I have said is only looking at altering the programming; not completely reprogramming. I you have been in the latter thread we have had you remember that we have had some discussions about weighted exercises, planche leans, weighted decline sit-ups and deadlifts.
Will sitting down and reaching for my toes while my feet are pushed flat against a wall allow for deeper stretching and quicker flexibility progress as opposed to not having my feet against the wall?
I can't touch my toes, so I'm trying to work on that. Discovered that when my feet are being forcibly held flat, it hurts like a motherfucker in my calf, and I can barely bring my torso straight up
Hey guys, could you help me with my routine? My main goal is strength, but I also want to do the cool stuff. What I currently have:
Front lever row progression
HS pushup progression
Pistol squat progression
Weighted lunges(I don't have enough Wright to do squats)
Hanging leg raises
Static front lever progression
Pseudo planche pushups
Front lever row progression
HS pushup progression
Pistol squat progression
Weighted lunges(I don't have enough Wright to do squats)
Hanging leg raises
Back lever progression
The schedule would be AxBxAxxBxAxBxx. I'll also be working on freestanding handstands on the offdays, together with stretching.
still too much stuff. If you don't want to do foundation, at give each day something specific, so that part of your body can rest.
A = Push
B = Pull
C = LegCore
Static should be somewhat included in your workouts, they ARE part of bodyweight training as much as bent arm stuff guys ..
Still, not a good routine in my personal opinion...taking what you posted I'd do:
Hollow Body Press progression
Front lever progression
Back lever progression
sligthly less shitty
Yes, it would be advantageous to add some assistence exercises. Here I am thinking body line drills and handstand work.
But the raw strength work is fine, I would not suggest to add more unless you have a great work capacity.
>Now if your goal is strength and size, deadlifts, without question, help a fuck ton. But you said you're not looking for functionality, you're looking to achieve fancy moves
If you want functionality, being able to do fancy moves is far more functional than being a strongman who focuses 90% on the big three lifts. There is a reason the military doesn't rely as heavily on deadlifts and squats as your average gym bro. They care about functionality, not size.
I think its funny when I see typical misc type gym faggot and they have a nice physique and all, but it just looks non powerful to me. Tiny, non functional joints, but big muscles. Compare them to a guy with a physique of a football player, or one of the guys in the OP.
Just to add. I'm not arguing that you're wrong about the benefits of deadlifts, but that focusing purely on stuff like that is not going to get you to be optimally functionally powerful and strong.
Volume depends on the nature of the exercise and on application of the exercise which will vary.
To follow your examples:
5 x 5 or 3 x 8 is generally for strength training but doing more pull ups as high rep training for very advanced athletes can have its benefits, like a complete max-out of 25-50 perfect pull ups. For the average guys I would say 3 x 15 is absolute max unless you specifically want to do more pull ups but even so there are better ways of getting there. After 3 x 15 one can begin experimentation with grip type, wideness of grip, weighted pull ups and L-pull ups.
For FL that really depends on which progression. For beginner floor core variations 5 x 60s is not bad, for hangs I would say 3 x 30. For full FL and straddle I would say 5 x 10-15s but one could max those out further, but also experiment with dynamic variations
I will stick on the routine stated before, adding HSPU progression on day A and Row Progression on B.
Thing is, I don't know how many reps / seconds I should do. My goal is to develop my body muscles and having strenght.
So now, knowing my goals I should be doing 3x8 max and 3 x 30 max?
Weighted Dips 3x8
>add 5kg as you complete
>hold each progression for at least 10-15 seconds
Hollow Body Press progression
>same as above
>same as above
> as dips on day A
Front lever progression
>4x10-15s per progression
Back lever progression
Again I'm convinced you should take one Foundation and Handstand 1 as you'll get formidable results from even earlier progression, even though you already know how to do more advanced stuff...your form/control/flexibility will all improve.
Pull ups and chin ups are virtually the same exercise. Yes, pull ups work back more, and chin ups work biceps more, but don't think of them as different exercises.
I would want to see deadlifts or at least supermans in your program. I am also not seeing any calf / shin work. Finally, I am not seeing any bent-over-row type work.
And, I think you are working way too many "hardcore" holds at once.
That's my 5 cents.
Hey everyone, guess what I am doing today?!!?
Did I hear "push up position leans, flexing my glutes, and hip flexor stretches? THAT'S RIGHT!
>pull ups work back more
this is not true
shoulder flexion is exactly the same given the same grip
only thing that differs is elbow flexion, chinup uses bicep more and pullup uses brachiodoralis more which is a weaker muscle which makes the pullup harder
Looks like you are wrong:
>The pectoralis major and biceps brachii had significantly higher EMG activation during the chin-up than during the pull-up, whereas the lower trapezius was significantly more active during the pull-up.
Layman's terms of above:
Grip width not specified above, but is specified here:
>Repeated-measures analysis of variance for each muscle revealed that a pronated grip elicited greater latissimus dorsi activity than a supinated grip.
My own side notes - over developed lats tend to cause incorrect pelvic position and some experts suggest stopping pull ups for a while for the term during which the imbalance is corrected.
was reading Foundation One and I had a question:
>what do when you don't have the equipment
like the walls with those 'ladders' or that 'horse' etc.
do you just skip that exercise/im?
I don't even have a pull-up bar
Good question. Personally it depends. If its a stretch exercise, there's no big deal, ill find something on which to hold on and do it, if it's an active exercise, I looks for something equivalent but I don't slip the workout
That's what he just said. If the equipment you don't have is being used to stretch, you can almost always find something else to use to perform that stretch, or modify the stretch slightly. If the equipment you don't have is being used to perform an exercise then find a replacement exercise as close to it as possible (ie. replacing hanging leg raises with lying leg raises etc.). That's what the guy up there was trying to say, at least.
That is a completely different exercise than hanging and I cannot recommend it. A full leg raise will eventually require you to touch the hands with your toes in ppt. It should be possible to find something to hang from.
I don't think he was talking about Foundation,
Front Lever (FL)
Straddle Planche ( sP L)
Side Lever (SL)
Single Leg Squat (SLS)
Hollowback Press (HBP)
Rope Climb (RC)
Those are the only ones in Foundation, where would a sit up go? Couldn't find anything.
Was on vacation for the last week, so looks like a missed a ton.
That's awesome to hear man, congrats. Building up that pushup and PL lean strength definitely payed off. Can't wait for you to start the dip progression too! I wasn't following foundation, but when I started incorporating dips-PB and ring--I really start to see some amazing gains in strength.
That first comment. Fucking yes. Like you say, foundation isn't 100% airtight, perfect programming all the time; it's not a bible, but if you can't do advanced pullup variations you are fucking your CT in the long run by doing legless RC along with muscle ups. our friend here mentioned you can't do a tuck front lever. That in and of itself indicates a sever lack of horizontal pulling strength and CT prep, something which will FUCK your shoulders if you keep focusing on so much vertical pulling and all kinds of pressing.
That is something I really resent about how Sommer runs GB in comparison to people like GMB (who are admitedly not nearly as good as GB in programming, but at least it's good customer service). Having to run a business doesn't mean you get to shut down any concerns in a forum anything explicitly outside the course's boundaries is blasphemy.
All good examples of endurance requirements that many advanced athletes may not have, which are really more helpful in beginners.
The military doesn't rely on those exercises for two reasons: you don't have to be incredibly strong for bootcamp, it's 95% endurance. Secondly, nobody is giving them money to throw on powercages lying around for every trainee in the US to use, they want big machines.
Your idea of functionality is based on what? Any athletes from any sport other than gymnastics will not be automatically able to perform straddle planche, does that make them inferior athletes? The word functional gets thrown around a lot, but functionality is specific to an activity for the most part cont..
Yes joint prep and flexibility is crucial, but saying that people who have big benches squats and deads are not functionally powerful is absurd. Is the opposite end of the spectrum, a marathon runner functional? Is a football player "functioanlly" powerful? I think GST is fucking fantastic, it's what I train in because it helps what I do. But it's not the best way to train for everyone.
3x60s is not really necessary past beginner stage. 3x20-30 is good for endurance holds for tuck planche and the like. Like alex said, higher level skills cap around 5x10.
Antranik's kinda sucks tbh. Three day PPL splits are not optimal for beginners or intermediates. the reddit beinner routine is pretty good. Read our previous posts about it.
If you're following a solid routine then yeah it's really normal. Pullups are really hard for beginners.
Negatives and rows will get you there though. Good luck.
Remember caloric deficit is way more important than just cardio. The /fit/ sticky has great stuff on nutrition. Not saying you didn't know that, but I just wanted to clarify.
yeah fit sucks now.
No but I think I wrote that before I turned on trip, unless I'm mistaken. I know I wrote a post summarizing what I didn't like, not sure if it's the one you're referring to though. Any reason you need it?
Besides that other list, spinal erectors are heavily hit when doing side lever.
Question, calisthenic guys?
Should I invest in resistance bands? There are a few routines I think I can benefit from using them like donkey kicks, glute bridges, shoulder lateral raises, e.t.c.
I'm lagging in my glutes, lowerback, middle back, lowerbody. Mainly I do variations of planche pushups, handstands, pullups, chinups, which hit most of my upper body great, but I feel if I lifted at the gym I could instead do a few of my calisthenic routines, and then supplement whatever I need with weightlifting like deadlifts, and weighted glute bridges as an example.
So what should I do? Buy resistance bands and go from there? Or join a gym and make my own mix of calisthenics and weightlifting?
Good to have you back.
Most of my post on gb do make it through but some like the one I wrote on WL being underrated never made it through. I do not know why people who know what is going on still jerks it off for Sommer. It is so obvious that things that "strange" things are happening.
Anyway, if some of my posts do no make it through I pm people to let them know what I would have posted and why I can only pm. I think people deserve the truth instead of a twisted business line truth.
btw, what do you mean by PPL?
Yeah, I look forward to train outside this summer.
>tfw cannot do weighted mobility drills outside
>muh JC, dislocations and assisted GH
Btw guys, I have decided to put an effort into an instagram account where I will be posting training tips, form checks, progress pictures and random shitz and giggles. If the thing really airs then I might post a link
Here in Peru, is getting pretty common to see kids from 10-18 doing calisthenics bdw routines.
I'm 23 at the moment and being doing just pull ups dips for 4 months until I saw one guy doing BL, ask him "yo wtf are you doing" he reply "Calisthenics m8" go to internet and been improving my routine.
I'm going to stick for 6 months with the routine Taurenking gave. My main goal is strenght.
We gonna make it /asp/
Hey is there any one who knows their shit good progression exerises for:
-Hollow Body Press progression
>No but I think I wrote that before I turned on trip, unless I'm mistaken. I know I wrote a post summarizing what I didn't like, not sure if it's the one you're referring to though. Any reason you need it?
It's the screenshot of a post with a pic of a character from LoGH.
CC often comes up when bodyweight routines get discussed on /fit/ and I just want a pic to post instead of having to write everything out.
I know, I've downloaded it, but I really didn't catch the routine, maybe because english isn't my primary language. Like I said, I'll force myself to read it, but in the meantime I asked for some progression exercises.
Sorry that my question bothered you so much.
hey dude, I'm happy to hear that, but in this case why don't you just do Foundation? (Links in first post of the thread) Trust me, it's way better than the "routine" we made :)
Holy fuck that's far away..how are things over there?
Why would he be mad?
I am not going to make a long reply on it. I think it is a bit strange that you at 17:17 did not have the routine but at 17:29 had downloaded it but did not "catch" it. Spend some more fucking time if you even looked at it.
For planche master the planche leans for now. For HBP master push ups and dips for now. For HSPU master handstands first.
Things to check before mastery is achieved; perfect body alignment, ppt, elbows pointing towards feet, correct scapulae position (protraction for pushups, depression for dips, elevation for handstands) and the list goes on...
I am not going to look at it because it simply cannot be better than what we have presented here. If any of the namefags should say otherwise I will look at it. But from my point of view you have been given what you need to get started and the rest is just not wanting to follow our advice.
If I am wrong tell me so. But that is the impression you make
I got it on my pc, read some of it but didn't understand it. I'm going to read it while I'm on work, any consultation I'll fucking bother you because I want to improve.
If that what you think, then I made a wrong impression. Like I said before, going to read it one more time, anything I don't have clear I'll ask.
Have a good day!
so I did first day of Foundation One (going for 4 days a week program)
the author wrote "if week 1 is easy, next week do week 5 then next week do week 9"
week1 day1 is:
>RC/PE1(3x3r) since I don't have rope I substituted it with bent over rows
the intensity felt totally like a joke (been lifting weights for 4 months before this)
so I was thinking next week on trying the week 5 and see how it goes
But I was struggling with several integrated mobility exercises, namely the hip twist and upright lat lean (was holding onto a table) though after I did lat lean I watched the picture again and realised I was going down too much
if I can do exercises no problem but struggle with integrated mobility, should I skip weeks to higher intensity?
>Hinge rows are very hard on the rotator cuff muscles
This sounds consistent with what I've been experiencing. I guess that's my weak point.
>Hinge rows are quite essential rehab.
And I'm sure once I strengthen those weak areas the next progressions will be even easier than they are for me right now.
>HoN player reportin'
I played a lot of HoN back in closed beta but switched to DotA shortly after. You should give Dota 2 another try when the port over to Source 2 is finished.
I would go on normally and make sure you have perfect form on those exercises that you do, a wild guess is that 50% of people thinking they are doing it right are doing them wrong.
Endurance might crush you later too so do your early work and refine the iMs. No pause in between sets will also crush most progress later.
For a reference, it took me 2 months of intensive push up training with form checking to finally be able to do them correctly. I had no mirrors, spotters or a camera to film me though, now I have.
My friends play HoN, not DotA, so that will not happen anytime soon.
Back to topic; 5 x 15 hinge rows will require a lot of work unless you are genetically gifted. Be sure to check your ego if/when you stall progress.
I know I'll stall but I'll work through it.
I stalled on incline pushups for a few weeks and am currently working on mastering 5x15. I'm also trying to cut at the moment so I'm hoping the weight loss will start working to my advantage in the near future.
That may be the best solution considering that you are just beginning, but mastery happens without any rest.
Eventually, preferably as soon as possible, you will learn your full workout by heart and cut away all additional rest time.
Some people have gone through the full F7 workout (all 7 exercise progressions) within 40 min. That is fucking insane but also very admirable and something worthy of striving towards.
I would do it next workout.
You're getting ahead of yourself by assuming the exercise is easy because the Week 1 workouts are easy. Even if you start at Week 9 that's a whole month you have to work on mobility.
PPL is a push pull legs split, which, for bodyweight beginners, is pretty inefficient. You're getting very little volume in for any given skill.
How's that german hang progression going? Do your elbows and shoulders feel okay?
Doorway pullup bar+cheap rings=gains. You're gonna want gymnastic rings if you're training BW, no way around it.
Damn that's impressive, but I'm not sure what's really accomplished, since Sommer himself claims endurance with GST is mostly task specific. I guess really healthy joints if you're able to do straight arm work without rest, no?
Next workout for sure. Definitely try mastery requirements if it feels too easy.
How are your wall HeSPU? Your OHP if you lift at all? Are you able to do controlled negatives on the wall too? If you have the requisite strength, it's probably just a matter of getting the body positioning down, and for that I recommend stomach to wall HeSPU with elbows tucked in and no back arching (hollow body down and up).
Forgot to turn on my trip.
Forgot to mention, Are you doing freestanding HS with open shoulders? If you're not, then you will not be able to do a straight body HSPU at all. You would have to arch, which is not recommended.
A small rest is acceptable in the beginning IMO, moreso, however, when you get up into F3 and beyond. I'm not really following foundation to the letter at all, but I personally take big rests (2min) after my working sets and simply do mobility post workout. To give you an idea I'm currently doing open tuck PL, tuck front pull to negative full front pulls (holy fuck these negatives are so hard for me), negative free HeSPU, front lever pulls, MSH, not doing SL at the moment and I don't follow SLS. That kind of rest is how my coaches taught me after the first two years or so, and I've seen good success with it. My theory is Sommer encourages so much endurance in the beginning, not for the endurance itself, but so people are forced to spend lots and lots of time with the basics to better prep their joints. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see why else he would want so much endurance as even with big rests doing F7 will inevitable build work capcaity.
I am going really slow on them so I have not yet noticed any progress on GH, I can definitively feel looser in my shoulders after doing. I will just keep at them along with bar shoulder flexions/extensions. The dislocate movement is too hard for my right shoulder to handle no matter the wideness of grip.
To my knowledge the high demands in terms of no rest is to be able to increase work capacity for F7. Joshua Slocum also said that the work capacity was to be built for high intensity ring performance, which means enough capacity to eventually do an entire rings routine although it might have been watered down a bit for us normal people.
I live by the belief that once you can do F7 3 times a week (for most people) and you can do H1 work as a warm up you have plenty of work capacity. Building more would be task specific for gymastics or other high intensity sports like intense parkour. I have really been a nazi with rest terms early so I have in my opinion built plenty of capacity (F7 3 times a week with H1 as warm up along with stretches). I do volleyball 1-2 times a week too. When I reach strength exercises I plan to do 1-2 minutes rest total with iM added as I see fit.
You need more than 20s hold. Build up to 1min.+ with perfect form and we can talk. How is dipping/push up strength and how is ppt? Perhaps they need work too but that is impossible to say without any further information.
Good call taking it slow. GH progress happens in sharp increments, it will feel like you're making no progress until you unexpectedly suddenly have surprisingly more mobility in the ant. delt.
I think it's totally fine to start messing around with HeSPU freestanding once you can hit 25-30s pretty consistent freestanding. No reason not to start drilling the technique once your shoulders are already open, but don't start until then though because you will simply not be able to complete the exercise correctly and you're drilling bad body position.
Nice approach. I can absolutely see what you're saying about having to endure a full ring routine.
Sounds like mild tendonitis (acute inflamation of the tendons). Take a little bit of time off planche leans (1-2 weeks) and start more slowly if you want to be careful. I'd recommend being careful only because I went through a similar phase while llearning press HS with straight arms by practicing everyday, ignored it, and it eventually turned into chronic tendonosis, which is a much bigger bitch to fix. Also are your hands facing backwards? That gives extra stress on the elbows.
Tendonitis? hmm, I do planche leans maybe 1-2 times per week, and I've been making steady progress
hands are more or less sideways, a little bit upwards I guess
it only hurts when I straighten my arms, and just feels like mild soreness
When most people talk about tendinitis they confuse it with tendinosis, which is why the word may sound too extreme. Tendinitis is acute, meaning its much not a chronic, recurring condition but one which lasts for a short (think 1-2 weeks) amount of time. Its characterized by tendon soreness, mild tenderness and restricted range of motion around the area--hence why it hurts to straighten your arm. Exactly what you describe.
It's really not a big deal at all. It only becomes a big deal if you don't give it some rest and allow it to degenerate towards tendinosis, which again is probably what you think of when you hear tendonitis.
That's a good hand position, keep it that way. But just don't push yourself quite so hard when you go back to planche leans after you take a (brief) break from them. If you don't, you risk actual, long term injury, which requires a lot more than one or two weeks of rest. Tendon conditioning takes a long ass time, longer if you're older or you push yourself to failure with straight arm work. Forearm massage and rice bucket wrist conditioning help a ton to prevent this in the future.
hey can somebody give an explanation of the differences between programs like overcoming gravity, foundations, the inmate system, or the reddit bwf? Like say I'm going for just more flexibility and skills but I don't care so much about building weight? Which would be better for that? Or if I'm going for strength and more balance?
I just ask because so many of these are like year long or more programs and I don't wanna start doing say foundations and then realize I didn't get what I wanted out of it as much if I'd done a diff one.
Hamstrings are so god damn tight that I can't lay my legs out flat and sit up right with my back straight.
What can I do to remedy this? Feel like a lot of the static stretching I've done for a couple weeks isn't really taking me anywhere BECAUSE I'm so tight. (IE reaching for toes in a sitting position)
Been trying the towel thing, but miserably painful.
Would a foam roller work on relieving some of this tension? Other stretches/more consistent routines?
they all have the same goal some are just better than others. Overcoming gravity is prolly the best but it just gives info on how to build your own routine and even after you read that huge book you still need some experience of your own to do that. so it's basically OG>Foundation >>> reddit >>>>>>>>>>>>> the inmate system
I disagree with this guy. In my opinion F1 and H1 are better than OG in terms of safely developing the strength and flexibility you want. If you follow the programs you are guaranteed success if you strictly follow the programming which I always recommend beginners to do. When you have been at it for some time one can start to make adjustments since the programming in some ways are putting out too high standards.
OG lacks corrective exercises, joint preparation and a lot mobility/flexibility that foundation have. Therefore, as I program I think it is sub par, since beginners are not likely to be able to fill out those gaps. If you try they might stall progress later, injure themselves or create an imbalanced physique.
You need to stretch in position where you hinge in your hips and thereby leaning over your hamstrings. Not to confuse with bending in the lower back. There are plenty of hamstring stretches around. The most benefitial approach would be hard stretching once a week and then gentle stretch on the rest of the days.
If you cannot find any good stretches download the stretch series as >>645121 suggests. Specifically, the middle split series.
I personally don't know what is the inmate system but personally I think
I do not think reddit is that bad.
I still think a modified version of F1/H1 would be better than OG since they really lay out a great way of working towards the end progressions.
OG is very standard in exercise progressions and might need a lot of external assistance work. If anything, I think BtGB serves a better role to guide the already well-versed athlete in making a program.
I am really doing neither of them right now; for clarity I will in a brief manner describe my current workout:
- Warm up with handstands for upper body and weighted stretches and lateral squats for lower body.
- Weighted (decline) sit ups 3 x 12r
- Dip progression (currently PPP until 3 x 5r, currently 4 x 3r)
- Pull up work (slow negatives) 3 x 20s
- Split squat work 2 x 3 x 5r
- Planche leans 3 x 20s
- Deadlift 3 x 5 at 50kg (technique refinement phase)
Misc: Back extensions, various one-setters of specific skill work, german hang 3 x 30s, deadhangs, bar flexon/extension sets.
Most of the time misc are done in between progressions or post workout if I have the time
and here I thought you were doing Foundation...or maybe it was Ybla?
After some reassesment with a gymnastic friend of mine my current routine (Foundation) is:
Straddle Donkey Kick 10r
-Hollow Back Press
PPP 4x10 (hard as fuck)
Backwards Xiaopeng 5r
Tuck Up 4x15 (finally fixing my back/quads)
Stiff Leg Windmill x5
Shoulder Bridge 30s
Arch Ups 4x9
Elbow Bounces x10
LPullUp 5x6 (aiming at 5x10 here)
UnderGrip One Arm Pull x5
WRistSTreches 5x5 each
Forearm HeS 5x42s (tfw easier than normal Hes)
HS/PE3 >iM(10r) (Don't remember the name)
10 minute jump rope at the beginning
10 minute general stretch
~50 minutes to do exercises (roughly)
Yeah I'm reading OG and trying to figure if I should try building my routine or go with an already set up one. But I don't like foundations or what I've seen of it so far. It seems to be setting one up to be a gymnast and that's really not my goal. I don't have rings or many of the tools they later use and I really don't plan to buy them.
I have some basic goals like
Do a handstand
Lose 20 more lbs
Be more flexible (able to do splits, just general wider range of motion)
Be able to do a set of pull ups (can't do shit rn)
I can already run 5k from c25k and I'm half way done losing weight. I'd like a full body routine instead of a split and I'd do it 4 days with up to 3 hours to commit to it. Every day I'm not doing the routine I'd be running. There's also a calisthenics gym set up near my place if I need bars/benches at different levels to progress. But right now I'm so damn weak I can just barely do a set of girl/knee push ups.
>It seems to be setting one up to be a gymnast
What's wrong with this? Gymnasts are much stronger than the average calisthenics bro. What do you plan on doing once you accomplish your goals?
Problem is though that you simply need some of the equipment. A lot of it can be substituted though if you have a creative mind or just read this thread through.
It is almost a fact that F1 is better than OG for general strength whether you like it or not. Some of the exercises in foundations are gymnastics orientated or at least very benefitial for general athleticism. We have previously pointed those specific things out; beginners are not knowledgeable to pick those things out themself. Risk is too high that they end up with an imbalanced program.
Yeah the reddit routine really is actually pretty good for a beginner to follow for a couple months. Eventually to progress to bigger and better things you need to replace it, but you can do much, much worse.
I think OG is more a tool than anything else, which is why I don't personally like comparing it to foundation. OG sets out progressions, set/rep schemes but it doesn't tell you exactly what to do. I don't think BtGB is better at all. OG is much, much more comprehensive, covering injury, programming and recovery to a much better degree, and the progressions are fairly similar.
Nice routine, I'm assuming you do the sit ups because of Naterman's awesome video on them? Good choice.
Similar to alex I follow a heavily modified version of foundation:
60s hollow body hold
60s arch body hold
2x8 slow tempo weighted shoulder dislocates
20 elbow circles
60s passive dead hang
3x20-30s handstand pressing into/out of the handstand with straight arms through a straddle or pike
Strength resting 1-3 min in between sets of BW and I rest 2-4 min in between sets of OHP
2x15s PL Lean (hands around belly button level to warm up)
4x10s open tuck PL
2x10s PL Lean (hands above hips)
3x4 tuck front pull to negative full front pull
5x5 barbell OHP (95lbs) or 3x3 HeSPU negative freestanding (wrists have been acting up a teeny bit so I've switched to OHP)
3x5 front lever pull
3x30s German hang
3x10 Dumbbell curls for elbow prehab
Deadlifts once a week working up to 1x5 before back lever
3x30s parallette straddle l sit twice a week to work on compression strength
4x a week rice bucket wrist training
Circuit-1 min for each stretch, repeat 3 times
Hip flexor lunge stretch
Prone posterior capsule stretch
Doorway pec stretch
l want to clarify for everyone, WE ARE NOT DOCTORS OR PHYSICAL THERAPISTS. We cannot give good medical advice. We will help fix minor aches and pains, but for anything chronic or actually painful (like tendinosis) we can only offer small things that helped us, and tell you to go to a doctor, because that's really the best course of action.
I would actually keep training, just don't do planche leans. If the pain persists, take a week off of training at all, if the pain still persists go to a doctor/PT.
Like I said I can't fix your problem, I can't give proper medical adivce, that being said what helped me to get over my elbow issues was
Rice bucket wrist/forearm training
Bicep curls, high rep (think 3x10-12) with 1 min of rest in between sets and slow (2s) eccentrics pausing for a second or two just before the bottom of the rep, helped me a lot
Many, many elbow circles (1-3 sets of 50 in each direction)
Take it easy on the tricep intensive work obviously
Seriously though, best thing to do is to go toa qualified physical therapist.
>how is that even related?
How is this not obvious?
You post implies weightlifting is the devil and shouldn't even be mentioned because this is a "hurr bodyweight thread"
it's a laughable stance
>What do you plan on doing once you accomplish your goals?
make new goals and maintain
Being especially stronger isn't my main goal. That's part of why a gymnast routine isn't appealing to me much.
I'm probably gonna use a lot from foundations. I just wanna see what other routine options there are and what the strengths and weaknesses are
And follow up with a really good stretch after.
Since /fit/ is full retard on this subject,
how important is diet in the context of strength training (bodyweight/barbell)? Why does /fit/ keep spouting shit about bulking/cutting when no book ever mentions it?
/fit/ has a sticky that explains all of that. Step down off your high horse and you might start getting results.
In short; diet is the most important part of exercise more so than tue exercise itself by a slight margin.
I don't know what books you've beem reading but bulking and cutting has been the norm in most strength sports for decades. Cutting is purely for aesthetics so maybe its more of a bodybuilding thing that whatever you've been reading.
/fit/ is actually more into calorie counting macros than bulking/cutting.
I do mine on one day but it takes blood, sweat and tears to be able to do it.
Forget about bulking and cutting. Eat more energy than you spend but not too much. Eat fruit and vegetables. Stay away from artificial sweeteners. Eat at the right times.
That is a tl;dr version of nutrition.
>Forget about bulking and cutting. Eat more energy than you spend but not too much. Eat fruit and vegetables. Stay away from artificial sweeteners. Eat at the right times.
>That is a tl;dr version of nutrition.
that's almost exactly what I thought, thanks
Yes that is what I do.
>wouldn't it be better to strip in 2 days? or are you doing something else in between?
Sorry, can you rephrase? I do not get what you mean.
Push ups are very different to BP so I think you should look for another reason but I cannot really tell based on what you say.
sorry it was a typo, what I meant was:
>wouldn't it be better to strip IT (as in the "workout") in 2 days? or are you doing something else in between?
I meant to ask if it wasn't better to divide your workout in 2 days and do
AxBxAxx - BxAxBxx
>Btw, no pull ups/rows in your routine?
No, I am enjoying the full benefits of doing everything in one routine. If I would do a split I would have half the total volume which would leave me with a surplus of spare energy, work capacity and recovery ability.
I have considered to have separate handstand and intense mobility days but that would only be happening when I move to a big city this summer since that would require a 5 days a week schedule. But it could be nice, since that also would allow me to train outside.
Currently, my workout takes about 1½ hours to finish.
Shoulder position is different. BP you press with retracted shoulder blades, PU you SHOULD push with protracted shoulder blades. There is also form matters. Very few people can do a protracted 1 arm PU with perfect shoulder alignment. It is often done shaking, imbalanced and with bent back
By the way, I am not saying there is no carryover. There is of course some triceps and chest strength and shoulder strength carry over, but there is definitively not a direct carryover.
All I am saying is that I do not think 1 arm PU has the potential to do what you described.
Hey, if I already can do regular hanstand push ups (face to floor), what's the best way to achieve full ROM ones? Full ROM negatives, full reps with partial ROM, or a mix?
Also, volume? Currently doing 3x5, 3 times a week.
Is your handstand with open shoulders, completely straight and without shaking?
btw, what you are describing is essentially a HeSPU. I am not completely sure about the exact ROM but a HSPU should at least bring your chin to hand level.
Regarding increasing the ROM I do not know the official approach, but I would progress in small increments. Assuming your HeSPU are perfect you already have a good volume you could use both methods but personally I would prefer slow negatives.
that indicates tight biceps (generally followed along with tight chest and forearms). Stretching before tables is a good idea. Look into shoulder extension stretches and strength exercises. The weighted bar extensions behind back in H1 will build mobility, lying on the floor on your back while letting your hands slide behind you will build flexibility.
This is what I mean by "under my bicep".
I didn't know you /asp/ies had a bodyweight community, this is a very pleasant surprise. I've been training for about two months and I got my first muscle up today, so what should I do to make it stricter and stop balancing?
>I believe his is a bit taller than the average gymnast (5'7, 170cm) and therefore he weighs more.
yeah but thats what makes it even more amazing that he can do elite movements
gives me more hope that one day I will be able to do shit like an iron cross too
Many people mistakingly believe height to be a disadvantage. It is the proportions of the body which gives provide an advantage/disadvantage.
But truth is that smaller individuals in general tend to have favorable proportions in terms of responding good to leverage training compared to taller individual.
There are also some tanks around. I believe that there is a handful of team USA (ex)gymnasts who were above 180 cm tall. They also look so much more impressive when performing the skills.
I am 6'2 myself and I have similar hopes as you. I want to be able to do a full planche, inb4 mainstream.
The FL pulls were my bent arm pulling movement at that time. since then I've switched out the tuck front pull ->negative front pulls to a straddle front pull.
Yup, but that's why I don't preach this kind of routine. Takes me a while, and I don't think it's a good place for beginners to start.
Regardless, if it was/wasn't our beloved Alex that fucking phrakture and australian fuck bondi were acting like 5 year olds. [other] Alex was articulate, calm, and generally made good counterpoints, many of which I agree with, but just because it was who it was in that AMA they had to shut you down and treat you like an imbecile, when they do the exact same thing to Sommer's work. You're allowed to argue with whoever you want as long as you have a good argument.
I just wanted to share my story so far. I started like 7 months ago, with just pull ups and dips.
After 2 months of doing 3 sets of 12 reps each exercise, I saw a guy doing muscle ups and training his BL, I didn't pay much attention, I though he was just a clown or trying to impress.
Continued my business as he did too, until one day I ask him and he told me it's called calisthenics, I was like "this looks cool, I should investigate".
First thing I get was those Madbarz routine on google images and started to do them. I noticed my back getting a little bigger (better than the gym), but I still couldn't do the thing I wanted.
Until I discovered /fit/ in some BW thread, later, this board, I asked for advices and now I can do:
-Tuck front level 30s
-Tuck front rows 3x6 - goal 3x8
-Working on my BL, doing german hangs. 3x 30s
-Still not able to do Muscle Ups, I don't know why. Kind of stress cause of this.
I'm sticking for 6 months with the routine I get in here. Probably after that I will start with F1.
Hi /asp/, I'm about to start with F1 and H1, but i don't want to exercise more than 3 times a week. It is okay to do all seven foundations+handstand one the same day? Or is it too much volume for one day?
Perhaps that is too much.
I would do F7 (all elements) 2 times a week and H1 2 times a week. Basically, handstand practice can be done without equipment in the beginning so you can do that at home. H1 workouts should take 10-15 minutes.
Another alternative is F7 monday, Tuesday is free, Wednesday is H1 + foundation split, thursday is free, friday is H1 + foundation split.
>How much of this stuff can you do with literally no equipment
Most of it, but you have to get equipment for some.
> and what's the bodyweight approach to "I'm seriously out of fucking shape, please help?"
Cardio, endurance training and diet. As you build a small foundation begin doing strength and hypertrophy training
Good story, it seems like you are ready to learn which is always a good thing.
Some things I notice about current routine. You have no elbow prehab exercises. When you are doing BL/FL training and dips/pull ups it is only a matter of time before your will get into trouble with them. That is the biggest issue I can come by.
If you are interested we can give some more in-depth criticism if you post your full routine too. But I really recommend that you start your F1 + H1 work sooner before later. There are so many reasons beginners need this; many new guys just go full retard on the hard stuff without giving the body a break and a chance to adapt. The programs you also hammer you into perfect form which is essential to achieve advanced skills and remain injury free during the training.
cannot find them anymore. Apparently thread got modified/deleted or something (see Joshua Naterman's last comment)
anyway I somewhat agree and disagree with what he's saying, in that Planche does take a looong time to get but I don't think it should be trained so often as he suggests in his first post.
In fact I'd do them no more than 2/3 times a week especially since I'm already following F1.
But hey, I'm still struggling to get that 5x60 (currently 4x48) plank, so who am I to talk :D
I do not know what is going on here. I can refresh and reenter the thread at will.
Yeah, 5 times a week is definitively too much for beginners to train planche. But you should also see the context; he expects people to already have planche leans.
I guess 4-5 a week with planche leans are doable once a good work capacity has been built, and once you have solid planche leans.
I would not recommend additional planche training outside F1 unless it is just 1-2 sets of maintenance work.
sPL progressions came surprisingly easy to me. PE1 took 2 weeks to perform properly, then I tested mastery for PE 2-3. PE 4 required 2 weeks of work until mastery because left shoulder was significantly weaker. I am at PE 5 mastery right now but am staying there to increase the lean. I also have a 10s tuck planche max hold, tested today
Also, got my first set of 4r of PPP, they are fucking to do strictly!
Why are us and /r/bwf so different in terms of recommended ways of training? It feels like they're about taking shortcuts and achieving mediocre skills as fast as possible. Foundation doesn't get mentioned much over there and when it does it gets a lot of criticism while it gets talked about all the time here.
-Weighted Dips 3x8
-L-Sit Progression (Atm with one feet on the floor 3x 30 s each foot elevated)
-HBP Progression (I called them Superman and Banana, don't know if you get it 3 x 60 s)
-Planche progression (Crow pose hold 3 x 30s)
- HS Progression (Feet elevated pike press (¿?) 3 x 8)
- Wide push ups 3 x 8 just to train a bit my chest.
Weighted pullups 3x8
FL Progression (tucked 3x30s)
Bar Curls (headbangers 3x8)
BL Progression (tucked 3x30s)
Rows (Tucked FL 3X6)
Legs soem Madbarz routine "Can't Walk"
I start with a little warm up (5 min) and stretching.
Oh at the beginning of every set I start by doing 3x60s normal plank and 3x30s each side, side plank; and at the end russian twists 3x20
Please be easy on me.
Hey guys, new here, I practice aerial silks and I've been wanting to get in a more strict training rather than just doing tricks that may not require a lot of strength so I could start getting into straps. Anyway, how do I start? I have decent strength and I can do a BL and (kip) muscle ups. I downloaded the F1 but I don't have rings nor access to them. I do have a bar and I'd like to know if it's absolutely necessary to buy a couple of rings or can I do those exercises on a bar?
See the context. Planche leans are done for conditioning the elbow which presupposes that you are solid with planche leans, you do not burn out with your planche leans.
I would say bent arm strength in that context should be done 2-4 times a week. I have a pretty good work capacity but only do them 3 times a week.
How long have you been here? Travel back in time to /fit/ approximately 1 year ago and open your mind to endless trolls, shitposting, hurr durr 30 push ups/pull ups/squats, WL vs BW. That was the reality. Much has changed since then, and without sounding too arrogant you can credit us namefags for that :^)
There are many reasons why reddit is what it is:
- A lot of people were banned from GB and moved there. Their butthurtness (which to some degree is fair) affects the rest of the people.
- The general attitude of reddit is evolving around personal freedum where every way is as good as the other. That attitude affects BWF too, and it is still so wrong. I cringe every time good advice is being given but people choose not to follow it because it is not fun.
- Many mods and advanced users are personally invested in the site. Like Steven Low (OG author who has his own subreddit) and Antranik who created the starting routine and handstand guide (the later is almost a complete ripoff of H1) and has his own website.
- Some people have been posting there for so long time and have fallen into the habit of thinking their advice is always correct. So when new stuff is presented or some people put forward their noses to challenge dogmas they act like little kids. And the circlejerking reinforces that. This is not only reddit though, it applies to most people not being critical thinkers.
To substitute rings for rows you can use a bar on a smith machine or use 2 hanging straps.
For aerial silks it is important to eventually have fuckton of rope climbs, have a good straddle planche, side lever front lever and perhaps a cross before you can get into the good stuff safely. Aerial silks hold a high strength threshold.
Your workout is not that bad. There is some overlap, lack of mobility and some adjustments to scheduling that can be done.
Handstand could be shoulder warm up to every workout depending on how much work you do there.
If you can do weighted dips there is no reason to do wide push ups. Chest will come with dips and handstand. HBP progression I assume you mean arch body rocks. L-sit and planche training should be moved appart if you do a split, unless you really have a good work capacity.
Weighted pull ups should provide well for FL work. Consider doing 1-2 sets of skill work a week without maxing out instead. Pullovers interfere too much with pull ups. I cannot figure out what the headbangers are sorry. BL requires a good planche lean and german hang before they are safe to do. skip those for now. Skip tuck front lever rows, they interfere with pull ups and are not really good for anything other than FL skill work. You can do foundation hinge rows for rotator cuff, they provide a good balance.
Perhaps you want to add more compression work to your routine other than L-sits. sit up progressions, hang leg lifts and/or hollow body holds. I prefer Joshua Naterman's weighted decline sit ups.
I suggest adding some shoulder flexion/extension work, more rotator cuff stuff, stretching hips internally/externally, stretching pike for better L-sits and bridge work.
I can rework how your workout should look like in my opinion from the template you provided, but that would take some time and I need to know if you want that at all.
Yes, indeed. I've been waiting your response since the morning. Glad you can help.
Just to be clear for now:
-I should focus on doing german hangs 3x30s instead of tuck BL.
-We should do a sticky for some words, what do you mean by mobility.
1.-I put the push ups because my GF has told me that my chest has undevelop, I though it was because I didn't do push ups anymore.
2.- HBP you assume correct. Is there anymore progression apart from the rocking movement?
3.- To be honest I don't feel that combining L-Sit and Planche affects my workout, but hey you are the one who knows better. What should I do, split the workouts to A/B?
4.- Another honest question, when I did the Madbarz rotuine for back, I get sore the day after. Nowdays I don't feel that way too much, that why I do pull ups/rows/Pullover. Is doing this wrong?
5.- What does shoulder flexion/extension work means, I have to clarify that my shoulder ain't that strong. I can't hold a wall handstand for more than 30s.
And again, yes please help me with a better template. I'm willing to stick it for a year and show progress with photos for you to be proud. ^^,
How do I train for an OAC without weights and without a rope?
Currently doing one handed chinups while grabbing with the assisting arm near the elbow of the pulling arm. But it seems like the assisting arm is still doing a lot of work.
Look here. I was referring to this https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/comments/31ph11/i_wanna_do_planche_push_ups/cq3vcu1
it took you 2 weeks starting from week number ? shouldn't you evaluate your skills and then start from week 1, 5, or 9?
>Also, got my first set of 4r of PPP, they are fucking to do strictly!
I know that feel bro...currently going for 5x10 damn it!
yeah, basically what he said. There's always a feeling of
> my own way is what works for me and therefore it's the correct way
sure somethings may only work for an individual but that doesn't necessarily mean they are right.
>bad form, wrong scapula position, progression not mastered/skipped/or jumped alltogheter
you don't need rings right now, focus on developing strenght on all Foundation basics
>without a rope
hnnng...you could do archer pullups or typewriter pullups in the meantime and then try to pull yourself up with one hand, while the other grabs one of the vertical poles.
Also, try to get a damn rope :)
Yes, feet supported GH since it is a very intensive stretch.
Mobility means strength in a certain range of motion, so mobility work is both flexibility and strength training in 1.
The push ups will not do the chest much. BW training just does not allow for massive chests, but you will have a nice flat chest (not by any means underdeveloped). Tell your GF you are not doing bodybuilding.
For ABH you can put arms backwards or sideways to make it easier. But ASAP you need do the full hold for max contraction. Make sure everything is contracted, nothing is bent.
Perhaps L-sit/planche will not harm much now, but it might do later. Just keep that in mind later on.
Soreness in this context comes from completely muscle fatigue. If you go to that point you will most likely not see much strength gains, but rather endurance gains. I believe it is too much but you are your own judge. If you have more energy left after your workout I would rather add 1-2 more sets but be careful with that.
Shoulder flexion is when your straight arms reach over and behind your head, shoulder extension is when your straight arms reach behind your back and upwards. Both are crucial for shoulder health and for later strength elements. Shoulder flexion for open HS, deadhangs, HLL. Extension for manna and korean dips.
I am assuming you still prefer a split.
HS and mobility warm up.
(Push ups, PPP when too ez, weighted push ups)
Planche (I prefer leans, not crow pose first)
L-sit (If you can handle it
HS warm up and mobility
Weighted pull ups
Floor supported rows
Curls for elbow prehab
(insert compression work other than L-sit)
Russian twists (side plank not needed)
Too much waste of time to have a C workout. Plank work is actually planche work.
This may look messy, it is a template where you can make some adjustments. I am not sure about your exact goals so I cannot alter it more. You do not have to posts pics, I am just glad I can help
>Look here. I was referring to this https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/comments/31ph11/i_wanna_do_planche_push_ups/cq3vcu1
I am confused I see nothing more than the link I sent you. But w/e, you can read JN's comments and that was my intention.
>it took you 2 weeks starting from week number ? shouldn't you evaluate your skills and then start from week 1, 5, or 9?
I know myself well enough to know if I am ready or not, at least some times. It has just been simplified for people not to do anything stupid and hinder their progress.
Because it is a relatively new thing to the general fitness community and the easy variations look boring.
Get very good pull ups.
You can either weight them or work towards wide grip L pull ups and then try assisted, but it is not very safe for your elbows. Simply, a row is more or less needed.
phrakture is an idiot and his content is sup par. I would rather look into the stretch series by Christopher Sommer.
Hey again, some question:
1.- So I'm sticking with push ups, but what is PPP?
2.- Why floor supported rows and not the tucked ones? Not hating the exercise I just want to know.
3.- Curls for elbow prehab? Normal chin ups or what?
4.- Examples of compression work?
5.- So no more FL progression?
*Are the sets 3x8?
My main goal is strenght.
1: PPP is pseudo planche push ups. Once you learn to keep scapulae protracted and depressed work and get a decent volume start working on PPP.
2: Floor supported rows are easier to control and harder than most people think. Have you tried hinge rows and bulgarian rows from F1? Also, do you main ppt and pull chest to thumbs while still keeping elbows from flaring?
3: Actually, I am talking about biceps or hammer curls, unless you want to do chin grip hangs for some time (3-5 sets of 30+ seconds)
4: Sit ups progression, hanging leg lifts and hollow body holds. Look in your F1 copy for specifics.
5: You can do 1-2 sets of skill work, but only at moderate intensity.
Sets are either 5 x 5 or 3 x 8
>My main goal is strenght
Well, that was specific.
Look at my routine which I posted the most of earlier. I train for strength too.
>elbow/area under bicep hurts during Planks, RC PE1 iM, and even Incline Pushups now
This is extremely frustrating. I feel like a fucking invalid injuring myself in the easiest progressions. How are people starting out with Planche leans right away without fucking their elbows up?
>elbow/area under bicep hurts during Planks, RC PE1 iM, and even Incline Pushups now
your body may not be used to be in those position or to handle loads in different ways than usual
>How are people starting out with Planche leans right away without fucking their elbows up?
Again conditioning and mobility, what's important is that you take it slow and feel your body
Foundation One on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday.
Handstand One on Tuesday and Thursday.
I'm 5'9" 160lbs. I get plenty of sleep at night but keeping the calories low because I'm trying to cut. I still have quite a bit of fat on me.
Have you any history of previous elbow conditions? Sounds like you have aggravated an old injury.
In any case I can only recommend you to visit a physical therapist, have him check you and give you some rehab exercises. Clearly, your elbows are in bad condition if they cannot handle F1 PE 1s.
Right now, stop doing anything that involves stressing the elbows.
I did the startbodyweight.com routine for a few months and aggravated my elbow from the pulling exercises before starting Foundation.
I'm not going to waste money on a physical therapist so I'll probably cool it on those exercises for a few months and try them again when I've lost more weight.
I can tell you this much. If you cannot do the PE 1 then you sure as hell cannot just wait it out - your injury seems too severe for that.
You need to find out what is wrong and how to fix it, sooner before later.
The money will not be wasted.
I do not know how severe it could be. I will begin studying physical therapy myself over summer but I know nothing more than general guidelines.
I will make a guess that it, of course, will get better but never heal entirely unless you know exactly how to fix it. It could require surgery, it could require very specific stretching and strengthening.
I know a lot cannot afford to throw around with money but this might end up with you never being able to use your elbow again under stress, worst case scenario.
If it is possible for you you should save up those money. We cannot help you over the internet