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i'm not sure it's worth debating anymore, people just think you can hand out wage increases and suddenly fix everything. If that were the case we could just raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour and live in a paradise.
>im a white kid from a middle class family that hasn't had to struggle for anything. I'm afraid that other people are coming to take that away from me
This has to be bait. Have any of you retards opened a history book? Back before laws and regulations for labor, you had big monopolies, unsafe working conditions, unsafe labor, rampant overinflation, and the worst depression ever. You dumb fucks look down on the poor and say "fuck them" as if you're actually aligning yourself with the rich. Like they give a shit about you. You're just next. If they could have 99% of the money and fuck everyone else, they would. Free market is the dumbest thing ever.
I disgree with the "free market being the dumbest thing ever". Without, what incentive is there for people to do anything? Do you not agree that if a person puts a lot of hard work into their business, education that they should reap the benefits of it?
>>558956927 Yeah, because if you look in other countries, you have totally safe working conditions now. Because it's now a better time. Right? Can't possibly find a place where a huge corrupt corporation causes thousands of deaths and doesn't give a shit, right? That wouldn't happen now, right?
Also >native american Good job being lucky on that one. If you were basically anything else, you'd be fucked. There isn't even a guarantee you'll be able to land a job, but the school is a slam dunk if you're NA.
>>558957402 Because people still have to work. If not for the tax loopholes they all get, where do you think they'd take that extra money out if they could? Fuck, Walmart had employees ask for donations. They set up a donation request from customers to give to their employees. Now look at how much money they made. If you were in charge of a country, would you give a shit about how much hard work someone was putting into their business if it was completely destroying your country and people?
>>558957664 Because the minimum isn't what it used to be. Minimum back then still meant livable. Minimum now means homelessness. Did the minimum for any of the things you listed change? Does minimum education now mean less than it did back then? No. So why should the minimum money become less?
>>558958234 Completely missed my point. I meant that the desire to do a job should be because that job contributes something. If all you need to do is 'make a living' then you would be the one 'riding the social safety net'
Just goes to show how people like you don't even think.
>Yeah, because if you look in other countries, you have totally safe working conditions now. Because it's now >a better time. Right? Can't possibly find a place where a huge corrupt corporation causes thousands of >deaths and doesn't give a shit, right? That wouldn't happen now, right?
The laws in other Country's vary. Keep in mind, while the conditions with sweat shops, factories may be terrible in some countries (and its changing believe me). Those people would have no jobs at all. The very fact that these corporations go into these countries with lower taxes/wages gives the people an ability to earn more then they would elsewhere in their home country.
>Also >native american >Good job being lucky on that one. If you were basically anything else, you'd be fucked. There isn't even a >guarantee you'll be able to land a job, but the school is a slam dunk if you're NA.
Meh. I've had a 3.6 and a 3.8 GPA in the last 2 years of Business. I haven't taken advantage of my status, however I do know a bunch that have.
>>558959019 Less people would have minimum wage jobs. Unemployment would increase. People would still bitch $11 isnt enough because people that earn minimum wage are too stupid to know how to handle money. Thats why they have a job making minimum wage.
>>558957664 >>558958141 So long as you have an opportunity to move up in your career, the minimum wage is fine. Get a roommate or something for the first few years if needed, and then you'll be fine when you move up from the minimum. If you work your ass off and get a promotion, or get a second job and work more hours, work overtime, you'll be making plenty enough to live. If you really want to get out of the hellhole and you work like it, you'll get out.
>>558954449 If you want the minimum wage to raise higher, just simply don't get a job as employers will raise the salary to get employees needed. But since no one is willing to go without a job for +1 years and Mexicans coming from the border wants jobs you're shit out of luck. Also raising the minimum wage is going to raise inflation, no wonder you get paid minimum wage you never passed high school economics.
lets see a lawyer wash dishes for the sunday morning rush at an all you can eat buffet by himself
even though i am a mechanic by trade, and even a co worker of mine speaks 3 fluent languages
>minimum contribution to the workplace
at my job, the entire kitchen counts on me to do it. if i quit doing my job one day, the entire restaurant takes a gigantic loss.
Most of the people i work with at my shitty job are highly educated people fallen on hard times. i hope one day whoever made this hateful propaganda finds themselves in their situation, it can happen to anyone.
>Because people still have to work. If not for the tax loopholes they all get, where do you >think they'd take that extra money out if they could? Fuck, Walmart had employees ask for >donations. They set up a donation request from customers to give to their employees. Now >look at how much money they made. If you were in charge of a country, would you give a shit about how much hard work someone was putting into their business if it was completely >destroying your country and people?
Wal-mart is an easy target. Yea they've done some shady things, there's no denying that however, that doesn't speak for companies in General.
>Because the minimum isn't what it used to be. Minimum back then still meant livable. >Minimum now means homelessness. Did the minimum for any of the things you listed >change? Does minimum education now mean less than it did back then? No. So why should >the minimum money become less?
I don't think there should be one one the first place. You basically alienate a portion of the workforce by putting one in
Just like to say that i'm irish and unemployed now for 2 years, 20 years old. Living in a council house with girlfriend and both not working while on jobseekers benefit so no sneaky dosh to spend. 200 a week; 34 rent, electricity comes to in or around 100-150 every 2 months. Its very doable. Use to have 2 jobs stacking shelves and shit, the usual shitty jobs. Ended up being 30-50 euro extra every week. 3 days a week, my first job eventually turned so bad they only gave me one day a week. There is fuck and all work over here. Where do I go to make money in this world? I'd really like to know where all the money is at. Also any advice for extra work would be nice if any half-jew fucks out there know any methods. Happy to answer any questions also.
I'm fine with the abolishment of the minimum wage, provided a rather major change in our society.
Fair equitable housing, health care, education, food, clothing, and mental health care in safe environments.
I'm not saying it has to be 'the best'. Government crappy cheese, bread and water in a properly maintained 1 room efficiency (for single people, as example). A bare-bones roof over the head and an 1800 calorie a day diet from a soup kitchen is fine.
Otherwise, that minimum wage needs to be in line with that for the given area, given 45 hours of work a week.
Plain and simple, we are wealthy as fuck. We should not have a single citizen starve, go without a roof, without healthcare, without mental healthcare.
This just makes logical sense. Expand the pool of possible effective labor to it's maximum. Remove the entire option of illegal immigration (no jobs, gotta employ US Citizens first).
>>558959526 Dumbest statement ever. Poverty is self perpetuating. Look at things like a vehicle for work, and things for your residence. Without money, what kind of vehicle can you get? What kind of appliances can you get? What kind of clothes and other things can you get? Things that do not last. Things that break easily. Things that malfunction and need repair or replacement. If you have the ability to spend more money on these, it makes sense to. They last longer, and you're spending less in the long run because you don't need to replace these things. Less money often means living in higher crime areas as well. This can cost more money. Dumbest statement ever.
>>558959708 HAHAHA "get a promotion" oh god you kids think that everyone gets to be middle management. Oh god.
>>558959609 Also retarded. The problem lies in the entitlement of the upper upper class, and the enormous money gap. Look it up. Look up what happens when there is a huge gap throughout history.
>>558960416 Look at how some companies treat customers. What makes you think they treat workers any better? I've had three different jobs in office buildings. Every single one of them used illegal labor for janitorial services. It's not isolated. It's everywhere. If they can save money by cutting it from employees, they will. You think these people have background checks? Ever work in a place where they passed someone on a background check and it came back to bite them? I did. Guy was a convicted felon, and they didn't bother with a background check. He fought with another employee and beat him half to death in the parking lot. There is nothing safe about their methods for cutting costs, and it's always at the expense of the employees.
>Completely missed my point. >I meant that the desire to do a job should be because that job contributes something. >If all you need to do is 'make a living' then you would be the one 'riding the social safety net'
>Just goes to show how people like you don't even think.
I apologize i didn't understand what you were getting at.
All jobs contribute something, somebody has to bake the bread, pave the road, manage people's money ect. Thats societal contract we all abide by.
Welfare isn't exactly a stellar way of providing a living. I think people in general strive for more.
People like to complain about minimum wage, government intervention and government regulation and etc, but I like to know that I can go to my neighborhood grocery store and be reasonably assured that through such regulation, I can but pretty much any edible product from the store and not have to worry about dying from it being tainted and grossly mishandled in some way to the point where it becomes an immediate danger to my health. You take the bad with the good, if you really hate government regulation so much, go move to Somalia and see how that works out for you in real life.
>>558959950 >wash dishes quickly instead of loafing around Literally anyone with two hands can do that. You are not special.
>mechanic So what? Even monkeys can turn wrenches. You think you're so fucking valuable meanwhile you have no fucking idea what it takes to design and build the machines you merely fix after they break down.
>the entire kitchen is counting on me! >if I quit then the whole thing sinks HA HA HA! Get over yourself. They can replace you in an instant with any random bum off the street.
You're so fucking conceited and you demand more money for nothing. Typical retarded lower class bullshit.
Here's the secret: you're not lower class because you're inherently inferior or because The Man is keeping you down. You're lower class because your arrogance, laziness, and unjustified sense of entitlement prevent you from bettering yourself.
I worked and payed my own way through college. I studied for exams, wrote papers all night, did math problems 'till my eyes burned and I graduated after eight years. What's keeping you back?
I'm a Ph.D student in economics. the minimum wage is not a specialty of mine but I have written papers on it. It's as trade off. It has some depressing effects on poverty but also some accelerating affects on crime and unemployment. macro-level changes in PPP or living standards are ambiguous. It's clear-cut if the minimum wage is an economic positive or negative.
the debate we're having essentially comes down to principles: Is it ethical to have a minimum wage? What sort of society do we want to construct, what sort of civil society do we want to be a part of? These are not easily answered questions but it is important to talk about the,.
>>558959950 The lawyer could wash dishes. He probably washes dishes at his own house. Lets see you do a lawyers job. Lets see you do a engineers job. Lets see you do an accountants job. Every single of them could do yours. Minimum wage jobs are low/no skill jobs which means almost anyone can do them. The more people that are competing for the job, the lower the company can pay. People who work in fast food in North Dakota are making 17-20$ an hour/ You know why? Because up there the oil fields are hiring most of the dumb skilled wrench turners. This lead to a drop in the number of people applying for fast food work. So fast food joints had to raise the pay to compensate.
i literally decided one day that i wanted to work with computers so i pirated a bunch of books about it and used ciscos FREE simulator to learn how to do cisco routing, then spent less than 300 dollars to get my CCNA cert with the knowledge i had gotten from those books and simulator. i was hired within 3 months of getting my cert at net app starting at 60k a year with benefits and they literally pay me to continue getting certs.
My sisters husband has a business degree. He is now a store manager for a Walmart store in Ca. He is in charge of 500+ people and makes about 150k a year and then gets bonuses. So a business degree isn't that bad. ITs not like a political science or liberal arts degree.
We need to abolish the minimum wage. There is only one argument that matters–the moral argument. Does the minimum wage make the world a better place, especially for the poorest workers and their families?
Those Americans with the least education and lowest skill levels have struggled tremendously over the last few decades. They find themselves in competition with machines and foreign workers. Their job opportunities have shrunk. Their standard of living is mediocre at best.
The minimum wage is the wrong way to help these workers. It attacks the effects of economic change rather than the underlying causes.
You don’t need a special theory of the labor market or a degree in economics to understand that making workers artificially more expensive makes it harder for them to find work.
Those who support the minimum wage will tell you the MW gives needed bargaining power to low wage workers. Yet it helps very few people directly.
95% of those paid by the hour earn more than the minimum wage.
That includes my cleaning lady who earns more than double the minimum wage. Surely she should have little bargaining power. Her English is imperfect. No union protects her. Yet I pay her much more than the legal minimum. I like to think it’s because I’m nice. But I know better. If I don’t pay her around $20 an hour, she won’t show up. She has too many alternatives.
Alternatives force employers to treat their employees well.
>>558963353 For most of us, legislation isn’t necessary.
But the minimum wage does boost the salaries of those at the bottom especially young workers. About 1.7 million workers between the ages of 16-24–about half of all minimum wage workers–get a raise because of the minimum wage. And others with wages just above them also get a boost.
But those artificially higher wages discourage employers from hiring other low-skilled and inexperienced workers. This is particularly tragic when the unemployment rate among young workers today is over 16% and over 29% for young African-Americans.
Many who support the minimum wage argue that somehow, you can raise wages artificially and there will be no effect on employment. But who believes that employers don’t respond to higher wages? That’s why employers replace workers with machines. That’s why they send jobs overseas That’s why manufacturing employment is falling. Why would artificially increasing the wage of low-skilled workers have no effect?
Consider my favorite exemption to the minimum wage–the internship. You’re allowed to pay less than the minimum as long as it’s zero.
Do you think making internships illegal would increase the number of opportunities for young people to get experience? Do you think forcing employers to pay the minimum instead of zero would help young people?
Others justify the minimum wage saying the employment effects are small. Small? When you lose your job or can’t find one, the effect isn’t small. It’s 100%.
So it’s nice to give 1.7 million young workers a raise. But what about the 3.4 million unemployed young workers as of last month, workers actively looking for work who can’t find it? Is it worth it? Is it worth helping those 1.7 million people if it means making it harder for twice as many people to find any kind of job? That’s over 3 million people earning zero. I reject making that tradeoff. It’s a bad bargain.
Corporations are people and can contribute unlimited funds to political campaigns here in America. People deserve to be paid less than minimum wage in order for economic activity to increahahahaahahaha
>Look at how some companies treat customers. What makes you think they treat workers any >better? I've had three different jobs in office buildings. Every single one of them used illegal >labor for janitorial services. It's not isolated. It's everywhere. If they can save money by >cutting it from employees, they will. You think these people have background checks? Ever >work in a place where they passed someone on a background check and it came back to bite >them? I did. Guy was a convicted felon, and they didn't bother with a background check. He >fought with another employee and beat him half to death in the parking lot. There is nothing >safe about their methods for cutting costs, and it's always at the expense of the employees.
Who's going to work the bottom of the barrel jobs? You have immigrants that have little education (im assuming here), or work skills and you have felons that basically will get rejected from any job they apply to.
Yea part of it might be cost cutting but it also just might be the only people they can find that can do the job.
>>558963507 The irony of the minimum wage is that it reduces the bargaining power of workers and makes them easier to exploit. It increases the number of workers trying to find work while reducing the number of jobs available. That encourages low-skilled workers to stay in lousy jobs where employers treat them badly. If they quit, they know the odds of finding another job is very small.
The best argument for the minimum wage is that our school system is a failure. So we have to do something to help people who have been abused and betrayed by the system. But the minimum wage is the wrong way to fix this failure. It’s just an additional barrier to the least skilled workers of America making it harder for them to begin their careers. Do we really want to make it harder for the least-skilled with the fewest connections, the ones who desperately need that first job to start their career? I beg you to consider that the best intentions don’t always lead to good results. Abolish the minimum wage and let young people and the least skilled have a better chance of getting the experience they need to thrive and prosper.
But obviously it won't work if everyone does this. It seems like someone always has to get fucked, there's no way for us all to be successful. And I'm fine with it so long as the ones who work the least are the ones getting fucked the hardest by it.
>>558963653 In September of 2011, the governor of American Samoa traveled 7000 miles to testify for 5 minutes before Congress. He begged Congress to stop increasing the minimum wage in American Samoa–a process that had begun in 2007 and was scheduled to increase until the minimum wage in American Samoa reached the US minimum of $7.25. In 2009, employment on American Samoa fell 19%. That’s because employment in the tuna industry–1/3 of total employment on the island–had fallen 55%. The governor blamed that collapse on the minimum wage. Here’s a quote from the governor’s testimony:
We are watching our economy burn down. We know what to do to stop it. We need to bring the aggressive wage costs decreed by the Federal Government under control.
Our job market is being torched. Our businesses are being depressed. Our hope for growth has been driven away…Our people live in the middle of the South Pacific Ocean, with no place to seek refuge in any economy other than our own.
Our question is this: How much does our government expect us to suffer?
I have the same question for those who support the minimum wage here in the United States. How much do you expect the least skilled among us to suffer?
Congress stopped increasing the minimum wage in American Samoa. They should have the same compassion for workers in the United States and abolish the minimum wage here.
Right now, there are people within a few blocks of where I am standing who cannot find work, simply because their skills are not worth $7.25 an hour. Why would you condemn those men and women to a wage of zero? Why would you cut off the bottom of the economic ladder and deprive a human being the chance to begin a life of honest work?
>>558964219 There are desperate people among us, people who have nowhere to turn, whose job prospects are poor. Why make their lives worse? It’s not just about the money. It’s about giving people a chance to find meaning and satisfaction from standing on their own two feet. Give the least skilled among us the chance they deserve. Abolish the minimum wage.
Two caveats: I argued that the minimum wage helps 1.7 million workers 16-24 years old get some kind of raise above what they otherwise would get without the minimum wage. But the cost is that it makes it harder for the 3.4 million young workers to find work. This was an elegant but inaccurate rhetorical flourish. Elegant, because 3.4 million (the number of unemployed 16-24 year olds in February of 2013, the most recent data) is exactly double the number of minimum wage workers 16-24 in 2012, the most recent data for minimum wage workers.
But it is not accurate. Just about 1/3 of all workers who earn less than the minimum are in food service. So their salaries are less than the minimum but they get tips which puts many of them above the minimum and many of those are 16-24. So the minimum wage probably helps a lot fewer than 1.7 million workers. But not all of the 3.4 million unemployed are hurt by the minimum wage. Many of them have enough skill and education to make much more than $7.25 and they are unemployed for all kinds of reasons unrelated to the minimum. In 2012, for example, 78% of teenagers (16-19 year olds) earned more than the minimum. More on these issues in another post coming soon.
>>558963618 he has a point though kinda, the CCNA if you take it all at one time usually has more simulation questions in it than if you were to take the 2 parter one. either way though ive never understood why more people dont go into computers, you literally only need a 200 dollar PC, youtube, the pirate bay, and the free shit out there to learn it
>>558964374 =================================== There is debate stirring about a possible minimum wage increase. Obama and the Democrats in DC are advocating a proposal to raise the minimum wage from $7.25 per hour to $10.10 per hour. This would actually be an increase in the minimum wage of 39%, which is extraordinarily high, especially given the already high unemployment rate, particularly among less skilled workers. Overall, the American people are in a state of naivety about the minimum wage, thinking there is such a thing as a free lunch. The majority of Americans, who support not only a minimum wage, but also an increase in the minimum wage, do not understand that there will be negative consequences, or they don’t think they will be affected.
Some Republicans will speak out against raising the minimum wage. You will find fewer who will advocate an elimination of minimum wage laws. We also have to remember that the last time minimum wage legislation was enacted to raise the amount, it was under George W. Bush. Neither side is consistent, with the occasional exceptions. If the Republicans say that raising the minimum wage will cause higher unemployment, then why wouldn’t they advocate getting rid of it? There are a few who do say that, but not nearly enough. And if the Democrats think that raising the minimum wage is great and virtually cost free, then why not raise it to $15 per hour or $50 per hour? The minimum wage simply prevents employment between consenting parties. It doesn’t mandate that someone be hired or that someone can’t be fired. It just means that some transactions won’t take place that otherwise would have. If someone wants to pay another person $6 per hour to do some manual labor and the other person is willing to do the job at that price, then the government is telling them they are not allowed to enter into such an agreement. If the person willing to pay $6 is not willing to pay $7.25 (maybe soon to be higher), then the transaction will never take place.
Business is a good degree. Its not god tier by any means but considering that most of us will end up working for a corporation in some capacity, it provides a lot of education and skills for the working world.
Like so many laws, it hurts the people most who it is purported to help. In this case, it tends to be younger people and those with fewer skills. These are the people most likely to lose a job or have more difficulty in finding one. Ironically, it is legal to hire an unpaid intern in many circumstances. The intern would be willing to work for no pay just to gain experience. But if the company offered to pay the intern $5 an hour, then the transaction all of a sudden becomes illegal. There was a CBO report just released saying that raising the minimum wage would lead to the loss of half a million jobs by late 2016. But the report also said that it would lift 900,000 people out of poverty, meaning it would push them above the designated poverty line. Of course, these numbers are meaningless. The CBO has no idea what's going to happen. They can plug their numbers into graphs, charts, and various computer-modeling programs, but it can’t actually tell you how humans will react. A 39% increase in the minimum wage could easily lead to greater poverty. If there are that many more people unable to find work, we really have no idea how bad the effects could be. The estimate of 500,000 lost jobs could easily end up much higher than that, too. Think of a small business with about 20 employees. Half of the workers are making around the minimum wage and the other half are making more, maybe even significantly more.
If the employer simply can’t make a big enough profit paying an extra $2.85 per hour per worker, then the employer might just shut his doors for business. The extra expense might be around $5,000 per month. And if any of the other workers were making around $10 per hour, how would they feel making the same amount as the other people who have less experience or fewer skills? If the employer shuts down his business, then it would mean all 20 people would be out of a job, not just the minimum wage workers. It's also important to point out that there are a lot of other hidden effects from minimum wage laws. An increase in the minimum wage may not lead to some people being fired, but it could lead to jobs not being filled or jobs never being created in the first place. The bottom line is that minimum wage laws are bad economic policy. It will cause higher unemployment, assuming that the mandated wage is not lower than what workers would be paid anyway. It will also cause lower overall productivity and it distorts market activity. The politicians who push for a higher minimum wage are playing on the economic ignorance of the voting population. Meanwhile, it is only hurting the people it's supposed to help. The minimum wage should be abolished and people should be allowed to freely associate.
>>558964492 Because not everyone is wired that way. I'm a electrical engineer. I'm pretty good at math. But not everyone out there has the skills to be good at math. Problem is, to exist in middle class, you need to be more tech smart than the average person. Middle class jobs that don't require tech skills are getting less and less.
>>558965531 >Let's give the employer thousands of more dollars in expenses >Let's make it illegal for anyone to negotiate a contract mutually that pays under the so called limit >Government intervention in the economy is infallible >Let's make the employer pay more than the worker produces
>>558965449 no people can learn what ever the fuck they want to, the problem is most people are just lazy or give up when things get slightly difficult. if you are not willing to put in the work to make yourself better then you deserve the bare minimum
Welp, here's my 2 cents. I could go on about how the minimum rage will drive up prices, create unemployment, and reduce customer service standards.
I could also go on about how someone with minimal skills deserves minimum pay. More work, more *marketable* skills, more *marketable* education, more pay. Simple.
But I won't go on about those things, because the only thing that really matters is the concept of freedom. That is what I will go on about.
The government does not have the right to dictate to a business how it pays their employees. A business ought to be free to choose how it pays its employees, who it employs, and how it treats them. No one has a right to a job, and no one has a right to a good-paying job. If you want that "right," then get marketable skills anyway you can.
Freedom works both ways. We cannot have a government protecting a certain group (i.e. today's workforce) at the expense of another group (i.e. businesses). If a business has a right to pay you a piss-poor salary, then you have the right to go work somewhere else. That's how it should be, but that's not how it is today. More and more workers are demanding more money and higher wages for the same amount of work.
You don't have a right to shop anywhere in this country. If you don't like how a business operates, either from a consumer's perspective or a employee's perspective, then go somewhere else. If a company continues to pay workers poorly, another company will come along promising better pay and better benefits. In other words, we have to let the free market regulate itself.
>All these retards thinking raising the minimum wage will increase unemployment
The lower classes (those living on minimum wage) are the best circulators of wealth in our economy. The vast majority of the money they make, they spend on food, rent, utilities, medical bills - they put it back into the economy, as opposed to the upper classes, who just sit on their wealth and pile more on, letting proportionately very little back into the economy. The economy runs on people spending money, so doesn't it make sense to close tax loopholes exploited by groups that just stockpile their cash, and increase wages for those who are guaranteed to use it and create more jobs in the process?
What if intead of having to be tech smart, you had to be artistic. I am not creative at all. I cannot draw worth shit. If I had to earn my living doing that, I would be screwed. The solution isn't take force a company to pay me more, thats for sure.
Fixing the issue with minimum wage jobs is simple... QUIT, and go to a better job. If the workforce wasn't a bunch of paranoid pansies there would be no poorly paid jobs because no one would do them... too bad the U.S. doesn't have any borders and the government and major corporations are welcoming illegal immigrants with open crotches.
>>558963353 So get rid of the minimum wage and expect rich people to be nice to poor people, no ones going to allow that because the majority of people do not wish to be taken advantage of. If that was to happen shit will get done quicker resulting in no jobs to be done eventually. The construction industry would be fucking disastrous even more so then it is now. people would be more inclined to steal shit generally during work. The more educated than the ones without qualifications degrees etc would eventually get shitter pay than they do now.
Take your paranoid conspiracies and jealousness of the rich out into the rubbish you twat.
The "business guy taken advantage of people" thing only make sense if there is one guy, but there are many business owners who compete for workers you idiot, if one pays jack shit the worker is going to go to the other employer
>>558966621 >limiting jobs >not allowing the already 3.4 million youths unemployed to get jobs
You make it illegal for me or anyone else to make a contact to be paid under the minimum wage, and thus you very much constrict the amount of jobs.
I don't think you understand that with the massive taxes and regulations on businesses and the very expensive licenses it is very costly and hiring people at a high value (sometimes more value than they produce) makes the employer lay off people so the company stays afloat.
>>558966035 So when you guys get the tech over there when is there going to be this magical utopia where people can live freely without money, because money cannot work with this much people and growing. Or are we going to have to gas some people every 200 years? The Money system is failing and only creating lazy fuckers, slave fuckers and always the ever so smart rich fuckers
>>558966834 People don't understand the value of labor. A business man wants to make money. So he needs to hire people to make him money. But he also has to profit on their labor or else he losses money. So lets say he hires a man to work for him that will allow him to earn 20k more a year. Well he can only afford to pay that person at most, 20k a year. Realisticly he is going to pay him about 10-15k a year, giving him a bit of profit, and a safety net.
But lets say, that worker is so good, he makes that employeer 50k a year instead of the planned 20. That employee has the power to negotiate a higher pay. If the employeer doesn't want to pay it, fine. The employee can go to another company which would gladly hire him since he can make 50k a year for them. This gap would allow employeer B to pay the person more.
Problem with increasing minimum wage is you can increase the cost of labor over the value of labor. If that concept gets lost on you, then you a idiot.
So get rid of the minimum wage and expect rich people to be nice to poor people, no ones going to allow that because the majority of people do not wish to be taken advantage of. If that was to happen shit will get done quicker resulting in no jobs to be done eventually. The construction industry would be fucking disastrous even more so then it is now. people would be more inclined to steal shit generally during work. The more educated than the ones without qualifications degrees etc would eventually get shitter pay than they do now.
Its not about being nice. The Japanese said that "Business is war". You either compete or you go out of business.
If a corporation wants to stay in business it has to pay a wage that people are willing to work for. There is no stopping a person from going somewhere else.
Disagree on the on the degree's part. The whole point of getting a degree is to put your self in a selective pool of people, your qualifications are greater and thus your skills are more sought after.
>>558967197 >Limiting jobs I don't think you understand, friend. Companies in America are doing incredibly well right now - Particularly their executives. They're not in a position where they're barely scraping by. If companies cut what they paid their executives in half, for example (Including things like stock options, pensions, and other perks, not just salary), they'd have more than enough money to pay for minimum wage increases AND avoid layoffs of their workers AND hire more people to meet the increased demand for goods that a lower class with more spending power would create AND the executives would still be able to lead obscenely wealthy lifestyles.
As a libertarian and as a small business owner this may sound incredibly counter to my philosophy but in the current climate;
Here's the thing, minimum wage is a good thing for the people and ideally it should be pegged to inflation,
It seems to work in plenty of strong economies, so why not here? The workers are happier and thus they're likely to be more productive. It also honestly doesn't hinder business or jack up prices, no matter how much the right protest or yell bloody socialist.
>>558962814 EXCUSE me, did you just try to bring facts and logic into this? Who the FUCK do you think you are? You can just take your conservitard ass, fuck it with a rolled up constitution, and get the FUCK off my /b/.
>>558966834 >>Failed to read everything else after lol at "one guy" You dont seem to realize how any people there is on this earth. Somewhere else third worlders are moving up setting up there own shit and immigrating they would be use to that sort of pay if not delighted to be getting more and in such a great and "famous" [insert country here].
Alright and for the guys that busted there ass in school, work, never took a day off, worked 16 hour days for years to get to those high up positions....youre going to tell them they need to take a paycut for people that have no education, skills, because its not fair?
>>558968201 I don't think you understand how companies work m8.
Right now companies are artificially held up by the government like GM (Government Motors) and other 'too big to fail' companies because the government is becoming more socialist and wants a planned economy.
Forcing every single company to pay (including small businesses) to pay a massive amount of money to people whom their value is less?
Those executives are highly skilled and specialize, why should they get paid more? Because it's unfair anon? Welcome to life! and life outside the womb!
Those people worked 18 hour days and did very well in school to run those positions. The company is massive and so the little profit they make after each purchase accumulates into their paychecks for themselves.
Don't be a jealous coward, there are plenty of avenues for the minimum wage worker, but their too lazy to do anything.
So, according to >>558968227 the three person family poverty line is $10.00 per hour... But why do we want low-skilled dunces to reproduce? Shouldn't we discourage reproduction by keeping their wages low? Why would we want their shit in the gene pool?
>>558969381 its called increaseing minimum wage decreasing ceo/higher up money. They shouldn't be making that much money if the minimum wage was increasing along with ceo/higher up salary increase. Why do people go crazy increasing minimum wage and decreasing ceo money.
>>558969819 So much anger in your posts; are you overweight and suffering from back problems, I bet you own a gun also on a sidenote your also a huge faggot who should use that gun on some unemployed and then an hero, just a suggestion
>>558970548 So me a company with record profits that lays off thousands. What happens is there are record profits for certain companies while others are loosing money. Those loosing money or with weak profits are the ones cutting jobs. But when you lump them all together you are making it seem like every company has record profits and every company is laying people off when that is completly not true.
>>558971001 Yes it does. MINIMUM WAGE HAS STAYED THE SAME AS INCREASE IN CEO/HIGHER UP. Minimum wage should have been increasing along with ceo/higher up money. But no they kept blocking increase in minimum wage job whiel a ceo goes hey guess waht gonna increase my pay for the 137146817246 time.
If a company can't raise its wages across the board by 10%, the business is already failing. There is no excuse other than greed at the top end that a company can't pay more. Most employees get hired at less than accounting budgets for anyway.
Example: A business needs to hire an employee. They budget for $17 an hour but list $12-14 an hour. In the interview the person doing the hiring tries to low ball the employee so budgets come out with excesses. The employee might get hired on at $13 but that extra $4 was already on the balance sheet and ends up becoming profits when all is said and done.
>>558954449 That image is so fucking stupid. If you prefer a free market economy - fine. Whatever. Don't pretend that no one gets screwed, ok? If you know ANYTHING about the nineteenth century, or early twentieth century you know that's pure bullshit. Four words: robber barons and monopolies. EVERYONE gets fucked in the ass for the sake of a tiny few.
>>558971581 im not saying tax them. I am saying minimum wage should have been increaseing while ceo/higherup pay incrase. They both should have been increasing steadily instead of people blocking to increase minimum wage.
>>558971850 Holy hell are you this delusional. Read history. Late 1800s/early 1900s people were getting payed like shit. So many people were poor and living standards were shit. Not to mention no child labour laws etc.
I'll give you an example >Guy A starts a farm >Guy B decides to stay inside all day and pursue knowledge >Guy A then has more food then he knows what to do with >Guy C then forces guy A to give guy B half of his food even though it would not effect guy A's food supply for his own living
>>558972149 Yea, back then people did far more manila labor and ate bland shitty food. Right now we live as gods with mobile communication, on demand entertainment, the beat social connectivity the world has ever had and automation to make our work loves far more productive and easier.
People need to be paid more for economic reasons, but not by much.
>>558972149 Are you that delusional? When did the minimum wage ever get rid of poverty? Poverty was sharply declining in the 1800s as we shifted from mercantilism to capitalism you fucking nut.
You expect people in the beginning of an industrial revolution and expansion to be paid massive amounts of money? That would cut opportunity cost and stop the expansion that competition did cut down furiously on the poverty.
The minimum wage is nothing but a populist party move
>Yes it does. MINIMUM WAGE HAS STAYED THE SAME AS INCREASE IN CEO/HIGHER UP. Minimum >wage should have been increasing along with ceo/higher up money. But no they kept blocking increase >in minimum wage job whiel a ceo goes hey guess waht gonna increase my pay for the 137146817246 >time.
Im not sure if your advocating a Maximum Wage or something along those lines but in theory I don't think you can make a minimum wage relative to CEO's.
If they lead a company to better profits/performance they should be entitled to a bonus. Considering that they are directly responsible to all the shareholders/investors. Some of these people may even have their savings put into the company.
>>558972965 WHERE DO YOU THINK IM SAYING TAKE AWAY FROM SOMETHING. ALL I AM TRYING TO DO IS FIX A WRONG THAT COMPANIES HAVE MADE SINCE THE 60S. WHY DO YOU THINK ITS OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE IN POVERTY DOING SHIT. SACRIFICE A FEW FOR THE MANY DIPSHIT. ALSO ITS NOT OKAY FOR MANY PEOPLE TO BE IN SUCH POVERTY WHEN WE HAVE THE MEANS TO CHANGE IT.
>>558973054 no I am not saying put minimum wage like a ceos wage that is stupid. I agree that ceo/higher ups should be paid a lot more for their work. What i am saying is minimum wage shouldnt have stagnated while higher ups pay increase for the last 40 years. it should have been steadily increasing. right now ceo/higher ups make 300+x the amoutn regular workers make. it should be around 100-150 x the amount regular workers make.
>>558973457 How is it not wrong the minimum wage stagnated for 40 years and anyone trying to increase it is an evil villian? What would you do to solve this then. Have people live not in poverty and remove minimum wage then?
>>558973457 Its wrong to force me to share. If I want to share, then so be it. Its not charity if you use government to take money from me to give to someone else so they will vote for your politicans.
>>558970010 its not impossible, i work for minimum wage and have my own apartment, granted its really really small and shitty, a cell phone, and a shitty computer. the thing about living on minimum wage is that its doable but you never get to go out and do anything or shit like that, you pretty much go to work and go home
>>558973669 Their pay increases are tied to company performance, not annual salary. 75% or more of a CEOs pay is hinged on the success of the company. If it wasn't for the success of the company, they would get paid less than hourly office people below them.
What you would probably rather is that your pay be based the same, you have your wages reflect the success of the company, ie how good of a worker and how good of coworkers you are.
"A summary of the last two decades of research from economists at the University of California-Irvine and the Federal Reserve Board found that 85 percent of the most credible studies on the minimum wage point to job loss for less-skilled employees."
>>558960445 If one works 40 hours or more a week in a difficult, shitty manual labor job, then yes, they're "entitled" to at least sufficient food, clothing, and basic housing. When this was actually the "conservative" paradise some of you imagine, that was a perfectly reasonable expectation. It continues to be a perfectly reasonable expectation everywhere else in the civilized world. THAT, perhaps more than anything else, shows how our country is becoming a Third World nation because of the uncontrolled greed of a tiny minority. Sometimes a little greed makes sense. Burning your house down so you can sell the copper pipes does not.
>>558960445 Completely false. Quote directly from Pew Research: "Adjusted for inflation, the federal minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $8.56 (in 2012 dollars). Since it was last raised in 2009, to the current $7.25/hour, the federal minimum has lost about 5.8% of its purchasing power to inflation." In fact, if minimum wage followed productivity it would be $21.72 an hour...Stop being a dumb shit and fuck off
>>558973903 It sucks. People are so selfish these days. Imagine if we end world hunger literally get rid of crime lords fix shit up. We could be advancing far in sciences never before. All our potential untapped but being halted by the few who wan't to make money.
Incorrect, if your worker is illegal, let's assume here, she shows up just because it's a job oppourinity, people think immigrants always have the ability to get any job, that's not always true, in fact, I think she thinks you're a miracle worker for paying that much.
>>558974139 It would kill shitty small business. The ones who would fail if not for their ability to have cheap labor. Small businesses should be in the margins to have better profits relative to revenue.
Individuals in power simply don't have the majority's best interests. I certainly wouldn't. Communities always band together to establish governments, and they reach a consensus on what they don't want people doing.
>I don't want you to rape my daughter, so I won't rape your daughter
If they have the foresight, they'll make sure no one person or group gets too powerful. You don't want the people making the laws to be enforcing them, or the people enforcing them to be interpreting them.
>>558974210 who cares if they live like kings compared to back then. we are talking now on how to fix minimum wage and fix poverty. abolishing it will increase poverty to the extreme. To think people will defend to abolish minimum wage or let it stagnate as ceo/higher ups get even more money holding the country in a vice grip.
>>558964723 >hen why not raise it to $15 per hour or $50 per hour? This is a fallacy you fucking retard
>The minimum wage simply prevents employment between consenting parties Is a contract for endentured servitude "employment between consenting parties" People are forced into situations
>>558964874 >A 39% increase in the minimum wage could easily lead to greater poverty. If there are that many more people unable to find work, we really have no idea how bad the effects could be. So these guys who know what they're talking about are full of shit and WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN based on absolutely nothing is the entire economy might collapse overnight resulting in a nuklar holocaust of biblical proportions
>>558965354 >If the employer simply can’t make a big enough profit paying an extra $2.85 per hour per worker, then the employer might just shut his doors for business. The extra expense might be around $5,000 per month. And if any of the other workers were making around $10 per hour, how would they feel making the same amount as the other people who have less experience or fewer skills? THIS SHIT IS TARGETED AT MEGLOBILLION DOLLAR COPORATIONS WHO ARE THE LARGEST EMPLOYERS IN THE COUNTRY AND POSTING RECORD PROFITS YOU IGNORANT FUCKTARD If the small business owner actually had an issue with it they'd cut his taxes. You're so full of shit. Wrap your lips around the barrel of a berretta.
>>558974210 Rich people actually benefit a lot from what other people do. Think about any company and think about their product. Would the guy who started the company be rich if he started on an island alone? Without the rest of society? Of course not. They owe a lot to society because social climate, their workers, the services etc were there for them. This is why they pay higher taxes. Poor people do not benefit from those things in the same way rich people do. (if you believe they do, you are literally retarded).
This is a big part of it. I worked for a company that laid off 15% of it's workforce, the week before Xmas and with no warning, to "maximize profits". Then they went out in January and hired several high priced MBAs in VP slots who proceeded to tank the company harder, alienating it's core market and customers. Reaction? They laid off another 15% 6 months later, all low paid employees, like admins, not a single executive was laid off, and they all got bonuses even though profits were way off and they lost 60% of their core market. 60%. Documented, but hushed up.
That's why discussing a higher minimum wage is ludicrous, because we KNOW what will happen - people will lose jobs to make up for the loss of profit. Corporations only care about maximum profit, lowest overhead possible, and a strong stock price. Period. Everything else is expendable. Minimum wage goes up, 10% of the company gets laid off, prices go up for the customer, and the execs will be laughing their way to another Outward Bound camp for a week on Hawaii on the company dime.
This isn't an economic problem that be solved by mandating wages. It's a cultural problem, that will be solved only when the executive office is held to the same standards the lower workers are, the ridiculous employment packages for them are reigned in, and the corporate culture returns to caring about things like longevity, quality of workplace and product/services, and not sacrificing employees for the stock price. Not gonna happen in our lifetime. Raising the minimum wage will be seen by history as a useless exercise and a bandaid on a massive, obvious flaw in our society.
see your the guy i actually really feel for. Honestly, save every penny and go to school for something. If you do manage to pull it off. Get a protected title, i can't stress that enough. (Engineering, Accounting, Med, Law) ect.
My uncle got a biology degree and still found it hard to find a job because he didnt have a title.
>>558974867 im not im saying we could drastically reduce poverty. we can already end world hunger. we are at a point right now where not many people have to work because of machines. we can invest in science and in the arts etc.
>>558974769 Probably a troll but I'll play. The rich people are rich because they created something poor people want. Is that really so bad? Should Steve Jobs have been forced to give everybody free IPhone's?
>>558974892 Competition won't change the fact that companies will continue to develop new technologies to cut the cost of paying their employees (new machines to do the job etc) and the workers won't be as needed. They will be the ones who will have to settle for less if they want to work. We're not in the 1900s anymore you fucking retard.
>Holy hell are you this delusional. Read history. Late 1800s/early 1900s people were getting payed like shit. So many people were poor and living standards were shit. Not to mention no child labour laws etc.
the late 1800's and early 1900's were the era of the robber barons.
If you were lower class then, you were fucked.
It's scary how clueless how many Americans are of our history.
>>558974892 i guess competition fixed the late 1800s and early 1900s 1 dollar wage then. People are waaaayy more complacent today then they are back then. back then people would revolt if they found out their own government was spying on them. Now a days people joke and don't do shit. if companies abolish minimum wage very few people would revolt or do anything to change it
>>558974814 Because he found cheaper ways to acquire resources, making the burgers cheaper, making the amount of burgers he flips a little bit more per hour.
You do realize that those 'ebul CEOs who just want tot ake out money!!! moar welfare!!' are people who worked very hard in school and learned and were not lazy and used their full potential to go where they are now, right?
>>558962347 This was never necessary for basic living. Why is it now? What has changed, except for the rich being way richer now?
>>558962367 The objective wrong? Because a country does not thrive when 99% of its citizens are poor. While we're not there, this is what the free market pushes people towards. The people in control only care about staying in control, and they have 0 incentive to help anyone else. They don't spend money on things that help an economy thrive.
>>558963563 Because they aren't willing to pay minimum wage if they can pay below, even if it means doing so illegally. But yeah these people care about us. Let's put all of our lives and our trust in their hands. Fucking morons.
>>558966035 >>558967197 Oh, because if they pay people 5 dollars an hour, they'll definitely not keep making these anyway to further cut employee costs. >>558972965 It absofuckinglutely is when it's causing your country to shit itself economically. Think if you were in charge, and companies did fuck all for your people, so they starved, moved, and turned it into a second or third world country. Look at our infrastructure compared to other countries. Look at our transit, look at our internet even. Compare it to countries that recovered from the world recession better. Now look at countries that don't give a shit about this and worry only about the rich. Look at Russia, look at shitball favelas in the middle east. But then you have the abundance of jobs in places like India coming from our country. They have little regulation, but the money takes them way farther there, so it has actually helped them enormously. Here, where the CoL is way higher, people aren't being paid the equivalent. So what happens? We take a dive. If you were in charge of a country, why would you let that happen? There is literally nobody that it is good for outside of the richest of the rich.
No you guys are thinking about it wrong. If a small business all the sudden has to pay 15$ an hour for example. That has to come from somewhere, whether it be layoffs, less hours for employees.
With that in mind, the small business still has to compete with other businesses, some of which will have more money then they do and can still charge lower prices and provide better service, which would ultimately lead to them going out of business.
>>558975013 the bottom % of america has to work a shit ton of jobs with no health care. Are you delisional there are a lot of poor people in america alone. and my argument isn't to give them all that and more it is to give them a wage to live on that they won't have to struggle all the time. I am done arguing with you. If you want to impede or slow down human progress for a few extra bucks fine by me.
>>558975374 "something poor people want" A technology that society wanted. Social climate made it the next big thing (did you know that things like the Iphone have existed before but they didn't catch on?)
It came out at the right time with the right marketing. Was it all steve job's doing? No. He came up with an idea that wasn't new and asked people to make it seem like a good idea. So does he deserve billion? Is he the one who did all the job? No, not even fucking close. The people who made it what it is get paid like shit compared to him.
You are obviously very stupid if you can't understand that.
>Their pay increases are tied to company performance, not annual salary. 75% or more of a CEOs pay is hinged on the success of the company.
Complete and utter bullshit. It's widely known that companies reward bonuses for failure, as well as success - best example is the banks that got bailed out paid HUGE bonuses to the fucks who blew everything up WITH BAILOUT FUNDS.
Corporate motherfuckers have pulled out every excuse they can out of their fat asses to justify it, too. "Oh, we have to pay that much to attract the right talent" - yeah, the same "talent" who get to decide who to lay off when they fuck up.
Who at Microsoft got laid off above the level of manager for the fiasco that Windows 8 was? I know a bunch of low level people did.
What punishment did Balmer get for almost tanking the company? He's got a pension that would make you weep.
Tied to success, my pasty Irish ass. You're a clueless fucking douchebag.
>>558975409 Inflation is needed in our system. It's an incentive to spend money.
Raising the minimum wage to something like 11$ will NOT make inflation go out of control. (look at other countries that did this. Canada has almost 11$/hour and inflation remains at 1,9% most of the time)
>>558975783 Under their ideal, goods with no regulation, completely monopolized, poor quality, dangerous, still expensive. Working conditions poor, unsafe, paying nothing. We know this, because it is what happened, and what continues to happen when there are no regulations. You might think you're immune because you're either too young and still think everything will work out wonderfully, or you're from a family that has given you everything, or you think your middle class job would be safe from that. In all of these cases, you need to educate yourself, because this happens constantly. Nowhere ever can you find a working example of what you describe, but I can point out endless ones where it just doesn't work.
>>558975589 >Because a country does not thrive when 99% of its citizens are poor.
Yeah I know communism/socialism doesn't work.
Hong Kong has no minimum wage and it is absolutely thriving, poverty is greatly decreasing and wages are going up due to competition and this trend has been going on since it's creation. With no resources of it's own besides a little fishing it is doing extraordinarily well.
>>558975526 i know that. are you listening to what i am saying. I am saying why is it fair for ceos to block minimum wage increase for 40 years WHILE INCREASING THEIR OWN PROFITs to astronomical portions.
It would be like if i had a cure for cancer, aids and every disease but instead of giving it out to people i say no you cant make me give it to people i make too much money treating them until they die.
>>558976036 Look at the image. people made shit money back then. Learn to history m8. i can't believe you think the poor had a good living back then. getting payed for shit. not eating starving. I am done arguing with and idiot like you.
>>558976109 Abolishing it is a race to the bottom. Employers will always pay less while technology replaces human workers. People will become poor and they'll become criminals (that''s what poverty does) which will cost a lot etc
>>558976691 There is no way someone can do his research on every product he buys. Not only that but you'd need consumers to be perfect as in wanting to act for the greater good. If it was the case then the free market would work. It's not. This is why government regulation is needed.
>>558976694 I am asking you, what is the objective problem with employers having more profit? They know the risk of hoarding their cash. If your jealous then see how easy it is to make your own business and succeed.
The poor had their living standards increase dramatically you idiotic cunt. If you look at living standards in the US vs Russian empire in 1913 you would see a very stark difference. The Russian Empire had no economy and was still living under serfdom whereas the US went under industrialization and living standards greatly increased in the previous century you fuckwad.
I never said they were living good like today, but their living conditions have GREATLY fucking increased and has been for centuries.
>>558977004 With that logic it would be in the companies best interest to openly advertise why their products better. Anybody with the right mind would buy the food that has the ingredients on it, so then the company that doesn't would go out of business. How freedom of choice works my lad.
>>558976493 They have a minimum wage, you dumb bag of cocks. >>558976691 Monopolies would, you dumber bag of cocks. >>558976858 Yeah, I'd love some nice mercury in my food, and asbestos in my house. When does regulation get in the way of what consumers want? Because I can give endless regulations that have saved lives and prevented enormous negatives.
>>558976858 Hey did you know without regulations companies would give you shit meat and shit food with maggots in them. Oh wait are you saing it happened before? well of course it did. Not only did it happen during the industrial revolution SOMEONE MADE A BOOK ABOUT IT CALLED JUNGLE. Imagine no regulation Im sure those good companies wouldn't replace most of what they are selling with cheap materials.
>>558976718 >People will become poor and they'll become criminals
thats kinda stereotyping poor people isnt it?
regardless, minimum wasge isn MEANT to be a fuckin living wage. its a job just for someone with no skills. if one refuses to expand their skillset/become a harder worker, then they dont deserve more than minimum
I love how so many people who make barely more than minimum wage are militantly against raising it and act like elitists. They have no idea there bullshit job is hanging by a thread and it's only getting worse.
>Maybe in it's hay-day, but unless you get in on a top law program you're shit out of luck.
Seriously this. I know a bunch of lawyers, they all HATE their jobs, it's a fucking grind. It's not exciting, it's not glamorous, you don't make big money unless you make partner or work for a premier firm. It's soul-killing make work, to pad the bill for the partners. Or, you're grinding bucks working family law or divorce law, or sleeping in endless meetings doing commercial or real estate law.
And, yes, we have way too many lawyer now.
The growth industries for the next 30 years are nursing, home-care, retirement housing, and anything related to the massive amounts of aging boomers who will be retiring. Lots of states are screaming for nurses.
Science is also screaming for people. I sat next to a young woman on a plane, who was a lab technician, who did things like drug testing. She made a pretty good salary (over 100k a year), they flew her around the world for training, and had solid benefits, and enjoyed her work. She said they needed several more like her, and were having problems finding candidates.
>>558977527 Jumping to the worst possible out come is always good. Again no one would ever buy from these companies and they'd go out of business. If you really need government to tell you not to eat food with maggots in them you're an idiot.
>>558954449 Increase minimum wage. cost passed on to minimum wage earners price of gas goes up price of food goes up value of your increased wage falls back to normal Small businesses less common harder to find a job economy will suffer
>>558977995 What is late 1800s/early 1900s companies that existed paying shit wage. What part of competition doesn't always benefit the consumer don't you understand. we have examples of unregulated markets doing shit for hte consumer a la late 1800s early 1900s
>Abolishing it is a race to the bottom. Employers will always pay less while technology >replaces human workers. People will become poor and they'll become criminals (that''s >what poverty does) which will cost a lot etc
>It's a spiral downward.
People being replaced by technology is inevitable in certain occupations whether there is a minimum wage or not. The higher wage would only speed that process.
As for a race to the bottom, depends on how you look at it. North America is moving towards technological-centric economy. Its going to become mandatory for in the next 20 or so years to have at least 2 years of college education if they want a decent living. I see it is an incentive for a more educated population.
>>558962213 Agreed. Washington has the highest minimum that I saw, but it's very reasonable on the composite as compared to California which has a much lower minimum. Some places cost too damn much to live in because that's just the way it is. "Oh you like our beaches? $900/month for a single room with a window facing a brick wall." "We're Maine, we fish and shit, therefore give us all of the money."
>>558977881 I'm the guy you responded to. You're absolutely right on all points. Another field is engineering, robotics and the like. Seeing as robotics are basically going to cannibalize many low to medium wage jobs.
Raising the minimum wage does not help people trying to earn more money. Not certain if anyone has posted this in the thread yet, but the minimum wage eliminates jobs that aren't worth the standards set. There's a reason why you pump your own gas nowadays. Instead the process is self-serve with a little bit of automated technology (unless you live in New Jersey.) Simply put, the higher the minimum wage becomes, the greater the requirements become to get the lowest of jobs. This is because employers have to ensure they're employees are up to their standards of pay. If minimum wage to flip burgers at McDonald's is 15$ an hour, without any exceptions, odds are it will require an associates degree just to obtain a minimum wage job. Everyone below that margin now, is unhirable. If employers even choose to hire. Corporations aren't obligated to hire employees. If it becomes cheaper to fully automate the service industry (which is the majority of the American domestic economy) rather than hire, then all registers would be self checkout, food would be prepared by machines and so on.
>>558978119 what is 1800s and early 1900s where people were forced to eat maggots or die. It has proven that unregulated capitalism is shit. I don't know what more proof do you need other then history.
You are really stupid. I bet you would invade russia again in the summer like hitler and napoleon. But sir we can do it this time. History shows us we can't do it in the summer 2 times it failed and lead to huge consquences. Listen to me i am right,
im pretty fucking poor, and i dont commit crimes. im tired of being poor, so y'know what i did? sold my car and started my own business. less than 6 months open and im close to covering my initial investment in tooling and machinery
but thats because im not a lazy fuck with no work ethic
previous job i had was building maintenance for a small shop paid me minimum wage. learned all i could and moved on
im not goin to feel sympathy for the moron at walmart who is on his phone instead of stocking shelves, or the guy complaining about how he doesnt get paid enough, but has designer/name brand clothes
like that bitch that yelled at the taco bell (i think) ceo during a meeting. she wants to get paid enough to buy her kids shoes EVERY MONTH. completely unnecessary yet she feels that someone is obligated to provide that for her.
>>558978619 Why don't the workers leave their job and find another one? O wait, they minimum wage hinders that.
Do you think government mandated price controls will reduce poverty? No, it won't and raising the minimum wage never has. Anyways 95% of hourly paid workers make more than the minimum wage.
"A summary of the last two decades of research from economists at the University of California-Irvine and the Federal Reserve Board found that 85 percent of the most credible studies on the minimum wage point to job loss for less-skilled employees." http://www.socsci.uci.edu/~dneumark/min_wage_review.pdf
interesting concept. Sorta like profit sharing. If its within the company, that might be ok. However, im not sure how you gauge the minimum wage to a CEO's salary, perhaps an average of them all and even then there is a lot of grey area
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