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>>574618584 'I'm here to tell you that I charge the white man. I charge the white man with being the greatest murderer on earth. I charge the white man with being the greatest kidnapper on earth. There's no place in this world that that man can say he created peace and harmony. Everywhere he's gone he's created havoc. Everywhere he's gone, he's created destruction. So I charge him with being the greatest kidnapper on this earth! I charge him with being the greatest murderer on this earth! I charge him with being the greatest robber and enslaver on this earth! I charge the white man with being the greatest swine-eater and drunkard on this earth! He can't deny the charges. You can't deny the charges! We're the living proof of those charges! You and I are the proof. You're not an American. You are the victim of America! You didn't have a choice coming here. He didn't say: "Black man, black woman, come over and help me build America. " He said, *beep* get in the boat. I'm taking you over there to help me build America. "
>>574620413 'I'm here to tell you that I charge the white man. I charge the white man with being the greatest murderer on earth. I charge the white man with being the greatest kidnapper on earth. There's no place in this world that that man can say he created peace and harmony. Everywhere he's gone he's created havoc. Everywhere he's gone, he's created destruction. So I charge him with being the greatest kidnapper on this earth! I charge him with being the greatest murderer on this earth! I charge him with being the greatest robber and enslaver on this earth! I charge the white man with being the greatest swine-eater and drunkard on this earth! He can't deny the charges. You can't deny the charges! We're the living proof of those charges! You and I are the proof. You're not an American. You are the victim of America! You didn't have a choice coming here. He didn't say: "Black man, black woman, come over and help me build America. " He said, *beep* get in the boat. I'm taking you over there to help me build America. "
Hell, all the Ku Klux Klan needs to be told is they can legally murder them, and you have all the white supremacists living out their racist dreams of hanging, killing, and getting away with it. Problem solved.
>>574618584 >sandniggers destroyed a pair of shitty towers, beheaded a few worthless parasites, etc. >american citizens murdered millions of defenseless civilians in different wars americunts win, they are the greatest terrorists of all time
80+ million gun owners in the United States. An estimated 4/10 Americans fought in the Revolutionary War, and of course not everyone in present-day U.S. would be willing to fight either.
If four out of every ten gun owners in the U.S. chose to fight ISIS or any form of invasion, that's a 32 million strong resistance movement right there. That's about the size of the entire United States during their Civil War, and that's not counting the non-gun owners who would be willing to take up arms as well.
And while there are the fair share of hillbilly fucks who can't tell the end of a muzzle from their asshole, there are far more gun nuts who have spent years practicing and perfecting their ability to use firearms, while also purchasing fairly advanced weapons, optics, and protective equipment that puts the gear ISIS carries to shame.
And out of those fighters, there would be the 1% that would be truly hardcore. The type that would disembowel dead ISIS fighters, feed them to pigs. String them up from telephone poles and place their heads upon road signs lining the interstate; the type that would put fear into ISIS. Even just 1% of the 32 million would be 320,000; which still probably outnumbers ISIS.
U.S. would lose, but it would take fucking centuries. A massed attack on American soil is foolhardy, as the rest of the world knows. Guerilla warfare would work, but the massive size of the country, coupled with the deeply inbred (haha, I made a funny) resistance of 2A people, especially rednecks/bayou folk would be intense.
>>574618584 >what is 9/11 >what is the question has america killed more than 3000 terrorists looks to me like ISIS is in front so far, and that's with military help, the citizens would be no match because ISIS are actually trained and battle hardened, how the fuck do you expect citizens to beat ISIS if kurdish/iraqi army can't
>>574621562 naw man, its all about 7.62x39 if you wanted to use intermediate cartridges for deer. deeper penetration, and it tumbles deeper in where organs would be. 223/556 is barely capable for human targets.
>>574621992 im pretty sure the thread didnt say "isis vs american citizens on american turf and by americans citizens we mean american and every country between the middle east and usa despirte most of these being in europe/asia"
i am american. I can perfectly imagine our obese nagging shitloards of peoples to fin a fight over determined trained isis guys anyday. Keep in mind, we're talking about the population, no military involved. Isis would kick our lazy fat asses.
>>574622501 You must be one of those guys that hasn't fired 5.56 from anything longer than a 14.5" barrel.
.223/5.56 sucks monkey nuts when fired from, say, an M4A1. That's where this myth of the 5.56x45mm being a terrible round came from. In truth, the 5.56x45mm is an incredibly lethal round when fired from a 20" barrel like the M16. It was so lethal in Vietnam that conventions were held to get it banned for being deemed 'too inhumane' due to how it shredded people's organs.
And here recently the U.S. has started created the M855A1 EPR 5.56x45mm which returns the 5.56x45mm to its lethality while being fired from a 14.5" barrel.
>>574622742 223 isn't shit ballistically . its only advantage over other intermediate cartridges is that it's faster speed has less bullet drop at longer ranges, making it slightly more viable than 7.62x39 at ranges of 250-600 meters for accuracy.
>>574622501 See, this is what I'm talking about. We're so good at killing that we have it down to a make and model. It'd take us about a day to remember how to kill people with absolute efficiency if it ever came to our land.
>>574622917 1:1 citizens of any country would not beat ISIS militants, most of them have been extremists for nearly ten years, the question was not ISIS v the best snipers in america, it was implied the citizens would = average skill etc and there is no way any citizens of any country could beat trained militants, so fuck off with your hypothetical retarded cunting and please try to understand the question
>>574622774 You're mad. America would still win due to the amount of guns and citizens we have. Plus the size of America is a lot bigger than anywhere they have ever been. They dont have enough people to control more than a city at a time.
>>574621734 >but the question wasnt about 1 vs 1. it was all of ISIS vs all american citizens
You are shit at formulating your question. You are trying to compare apples to orangutans. Let me see if I can help you:
50k ISIS men of fighting age vs 50K completely random American men of fighting age, I'd still give it to the U.S. since a respectable percentage of those Americans are battle-hardened vets with PTSD and no problem shooting hadjis.
However, that still doesn't answer the question--OP's image states ". . . in America."
ISIS would have zero logistical support since they'd have to salvage food/ammo/supplies "organically" which means they'd have to concentrate their numbers and riot in areas where there are foodstores and sources of ammo, or they would have to harbor troops in the homes of unwilling Americans. Neither of these are in the least bit viable.
I don't even believe they'd be able to find comfort in places with concentrated Muslim populations like Dearborn Mi.
Fuck, their best bet might be throwing in with radical Christians and going innawoods in Appalachia. Sound ludicrous? It sure is, and it's the "most viable" scenario.
>>574623013 that shit's just fuddlore. it tumbles, like any other round does. 223 is a good round, but I'd take 5.45x39 or 7.62x39 over it any day. Hell, my HP 7.62x39 rounds do ridiculous damage to ballistics gell. Most HP's are meant to expand, but these just do massive fragmentation instead on impact, leaving much better and larger perm wound channels than a tumbling 556.
>>574623150 fuck me you're giving way too much expectation to the average american citizen, so you honestly believe the citizens of 1st world countries these days are "1 day" away from being able to effectively fight and kill in a war?? look at WW2, only 10% of men that fought in it had the guts to shoot, that's with training and beack in the days where you had to shine your own shoes, fuck me the average american citizen can't even go to work without xanax, their psychologist and their lawyer, you really think they stand a chance against people who are gladly devoting their lives to killing the final goal of which is death?
>>574623763 No it isn't Obama is a deep seated republican. He is trying to increase americans gun owner ship for a time when he is no longer able to protect us himself. He is also trying to cause the chimpening, even though it will require the sacrifice of his family and himself.
>>574623556 they are currently controlling quite a big amount of the middles east from different region and are still manages to pose a vital threat to border cities. and having 3 assault rifles isnt more helpful than 1 (unless you have 6 arms, but as marrying your sister is k that might not be unlikely). and when it came to bullets most americans are quite fond of "spray and pray" rather. it might look impressive and make alot of noise but in reality you wont hit anything and just waste alot of bullets. youre basicly setting up a group that have fought armies vs one that have fought clay pidgeons and bottles
>>574623113 You jealous that your woman craves the sweet taste of superior Canadian dick? Your women will abandon you when the sandniggers enslave and behead all you fat fucks. Once we mobilize and save your shit country your women will beg even louder for the privilege of a Canadian assfucking.
>>574623790 Not fuddlore. The 5.56 tumbles when fired from a 14.5" barrel just fine. It only fragments properly when fired at 750m/s+, which generally doesn't happen when fired from a weapon with less than a 20" barrel.
>>574623693 getting shot by anything sucks, nobody is going to argue that. I was saying 7.62x39 is better for HUNTING if you really insisted on not using a full sized cartridge like 308, 30-06, 270 win mag, 270 WSM, 45-70, 7mm,8mm, 7.62x54r, 300 win mag, 7.7x58mm, 7.5 swiss, ect.
for human targets 223/556 works, its just not my personal choice.
>>574624343 bro califag here, when's the last time you went outside?? the fatties are honest to god taking over, granted there's still hella fine chicks an shit in our generation, but like i see heeella fat ppl when i go to the store, ANY store, whether it's Walmart or Costco...
The military industrial complex is the only winner. The economy by extension will continue to slog along and survive. WE will not have to starve in the streets so long as our corporate masters continue to make and sell machine weapons. If and when U.S.A. defeat IS, There will be some other group of terror for the machines to feed on. Not even U.S.A citizens will be spared.
>>574618584 US citizens income not spent on their backdoor weapons wins. Why because they are currently hitting isis with million dollar missles. Mean while complaining about government spending and unrelated shit while having no impact. So really its a lose, lose situation.
>fat untrained Amerilards with wet dreams of being Rambo think they could hold a candle to Islamic State, which is simultaneously winning wars against two conventional armies, hundreds of opposing factions and US air support
>>574624286 doesn't really involve you??? have you heard of pearl harbour? and I wasn't just talking about americans, look at the french they were fighting for their country and they are included in that statistic, and if you think americans are more suited to war than the french from 1940 then you are dilutional
I saw that 10% statistic on QI mate it's a tv program that researches very extensively to find surprising facts and I wouldn't doubt what they said, even if it's a false statistic you cannot seriously think average american citizens are capable of fighting a war against trained extremists who gladly blow themselves up
Don't forget about Americans with big wasteful pickups and suvs, also tractor trailers and bulldozers and stuff. Alot of rednecks know how to weld with car batteries and coat hangers. You'd be surprised how many are hoping for that day.
>>574624583 you're in cali, this is why. Out in PA, a lot of people are in shape, at least for my areas. Everybody is into guns, most people are athletic, and general intellect of people here is good. Only bad part of PA is philly really.
>>574624326 And how much resistance are they getting in those areas from citizens? Also I'd like to see some evidence about "most americans spraying and praying". >you're basically setting up a group of people that have had guns ingrained in their culture since they have existed against a group of sande wearing fucks
all of you faggots are talking as if ISIS would roll up like some conventional army waving their flag and just begging for you /k/ommandos to shoot them, ISIS leaders arent retarded, they would probably just focus on terrorizing the big cities, smaller groups of ISIS-faggots fucking shit up in a city like NY evry day would cause massive havoc. Eventually they would lose this little war tho, cuz supreme leader obama would allow NSA to do whatever they want to gather info, and alow FBI/HS/local police departments with their swat gear and tanks to use whatever measures they find necessary to stop and kill/arrest anyone suspicious
>>574625028 you know it basically takes 2 hours to get across LA county, and that saying "i live in LA" means there's a whole lot of places you could live, right??
i live in orangevale, surrounded by white ppl (google demographs), and between here and Chico my observation holds true (idk about north past Chico anymore, I don't go up there anymore because why the fuck would I ever)
The problem here is that you have mostly regular citizens who have never seen war (except on TV), who may own a fuck ton of guns, VS people who have been fighting wars for 20+ years... lethal, guerrilla wars, believing absolutely that you are scum of the earth, that their cause is righteous and they're not afraid to die.
>>574625595 No. Americans are not all fat. The general obesity is EXTREMELY high though.
I also don't doubt your/our patriotism. But I can't see a nation containing a high portion of fat, lazy, deluded, depressed, drugged and or mentally challenged peoples against a guerrilla operation of highly determined "warriors of god"
Do I like it? Nope. But it's the way I see things. Bring in your military on that scenario and you might have the upper hand, probably will.
>>574622961 Speaking for Cali. Mexicans would fight for America.
Also mexican gangs would get involved. Niggers would get involved. America has a backbone aka everyone working minimal wage / in a warehouse that everyone likes to ignore and pretend America = Amerifats. Its only half true. Also so many Americans have guns its not even funny. That being said Americans wouldn't do a good job fighting ISIS on their own turf.
>>574625436 >thinking other countries have the same shitty tv as the US QI has some amazing facts on it, like ww2 didn't end until 1990, humans have 22 senses not 5 and the blue whale isn't the biggest organism in the world it's actually a mushroom
this tv program is renowned for its research and accuracy I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's true
>>574625419 well there was a documentary that stated that the M16 was originally full auto but since american soldier used the spray and pray method they made it burst auto this is american soldiers. not untrained undiciplined civillians. and gun ownership does not lead to ability to use a gun.
>>574625595 >even more nationalistic than people who gladly kill themselves for their cause >nearly a third of americans aren't even nationalistic enough to be bothered to vote dear shitlord I hope you're baiting
>>574626365 >implying you're being totally truthful about that >implying you're not actually waiting until some MILF comes jogging by your house >implying you're not grabbing some image from the interwebs
It has been declared this attribution is "unsubstantiated and almost certainly bogus, even though it has been repeated thousands of times in various Internet postings. There is no record of the commander in chief of Japan’s wartime fleet ever saying it.", according to Brooks Jackson in "Misquoting Yamamoto" at Factcheck.org (11 May 2009), which cites Donald M. Goldstein, sometimes called "the dean of Pearl Harbor historians", writing "I have never seen it in writing. It has been attributed to the Prange files [the files of the late Gordon W. Prange, chief historian on the staff of Gen. Douglas MacArthur]".
>>574626760 Spray and pray is a natural response in combat. Russians carrying the PPSh sprayed and prayed, Germans carrying the MP-40 and STG-44 sprayed and prayed, British carrying the Sten sprayed and prayed.
Nowadays the U.S. military doesn't switch off of semi-automatic despite having a burst function and 90% of civilian owned rifles in the U.S. are strictly semi-automatic. So there wouldn't be any spray and pray.
And while it's true that gun ownership does not directly mean the ability to properly use a firearm, most people with the mindset to purchase a firearm have the wish to learn to use it. I go to the range five times a week and there are dozens and dozens of people there every day.
Well, fuck this shit. Patriot American Anon won't return to me, and this is a lame excuse of a thread anyway. Off I am to stroking my dick while watching peoples from all around the world via their unprotected webcams.
What's the problem here anyway? Almost guaranteed that half of Americans hate the current government. Let ISIS come in and clean them out, then watch them get roflstomped by every christian in the world, because that's what they want this to be; a holy war.
>>574624475 true, but requiring a 20 inch barrel to do real damage isn't exactly a bragging point imo. a 20 in barrel is a pain to maneuver in tight areas. could work in rural areas. not a fan of DI gas systems though, more of a piston guy
>>574627740 20" has never bothered me. M16A4 is the standard-issue in the cream corps so it's what I'm most familiar with. I do prefer the piston over DI though. That's why I bought an HK416 rather than an AR-15.
>>574624475 >>574627740 M193 and i believe m855 can reliably fragment out of a 12.5 barrel. I think I would actually rather be shot by 7.62x39 as there's a large chance of through and through penetration.
>>574627441 the ppsh, mp-40 and sten are smgs tho and used for short range were full auto is natural unless im wrong spray and pray is pointing your gun in the general direction of your enemy at some range without knowing its exact location and pull the trigger fire range is ofc well and good, but differ from real combat, most likely you wont be standing up, you might get a bad firing position and itll be a completely different experience
>>574628580 I know M855 achieves a 2,700 ft/s muzzle velocity when fired from a 14.5", while 2,500 ft/s is required to produce a lethal wound channel. 20" produces a 3,000 ft/s, so while the 14.5" does produce lethal fragmentation it's not an almost 100% thing like the 20". Anything below 10" produces less than a 2,500 ft/s velocity and is not something I'd carry into combat.
I agree with the 7.62x39mm. It's a good hunting round but its ballistics are terrible on human targets.
>>574628928 Spray and pray isn't a scientific term, so there is no exact definition such as "pointing in general direction where you think the bad guy is". U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were said to "spray and pray", but what they did was select a target and fire a large chunk of their 20-round mag. The biggest side effects weren't poor accuracy, it was that the barrel overheated quickly and they ran out of ammunition fast.
I'm very aware that the range is different from real combat, I've got my CAR. But people who have been going for ten years are far better trained than someone who picks up a rifle, goes "I'm an insurgent", and starts shooting at people.
in the age of videogames based on killing the enemy with the same guns that are in your dads closet, I dont think ISIS would have a chance. I. think the real american dream is to kill hadjis out of curiousity.
>>574629813 no matter the definition or lack of definition spray and pray describes a combat method that isnt truly effective, might be good for pinning down or giving cover, but nothing to base your strategy on
its not like the isis just picked up a gun. theyve fought in the syrian civil war and then against other nations armies. wether or not those armies might not be top notch there still is invaluable real combat experience
Gun laws have becoming more lax the entire time Obama has been in office. Obama has not done anything to strenghten gun laws. Some liberals spout shit about wanting more gun control, but OBAMA hasn't done anything.
Obama is a republican and George Bush2.0
Obama is trying to get citizens to buy more guns. With his party shouting "gun control is a comin!", everyone is out buying guns before they get "more controlled" but then Obama doesn't actually sign in any gun control legislation.
>>574630564 Pinning down and giving cover is exactly what you base your tactics on. It's called a base of fire. It allows smaller elements to use bounding maneuvers to close to the suppressed enemy and finish them off with small arms fire or grenades if they're available. That's small-unit maneuvering 101.
And yes, picking up a gun is exactly what they did. We fought a lot of insurgents from Syria while in Iraq. They're undisciplined and untrained rabble. They have real combat experience, but it's laughable.
>>574625150 >rag-tag group of ragheads fighting other rag-tag group of rag heads, both armed with 50 year old slavshit they dug up from the fucking sand, and one side having occasional bombing runs by RC planes on random mud huts >conventional army combat
If you think that the people ISIS are fighting are anywhere on par with a conventional army at even mediocre strength you're a fucking retard.
>>574631282 >>574631282 On every parametric scale, yes, any organized army is better than a "rag tag group of rag heads" but >>574625150 is right. THOSE RAG HEADS ARE WINNING. They are holding off the #1 armed force in the world and doing it in style.
>>574631168 Obama and the democrats didn't get shit passed due to being fucked by a republican majority. The only place that gun laws have changed is in Kike York with the SAFE act. Americans buying more guns in preparation for a perceived total ban is obviously an UNWANTED effect created by a parties desire for retarded gun control. If you think that Obama wants more americans with guns, youre a fucking idiot. If anything the whole debacle just shows how fucking incompetent he is.
>>574631206 when your pinning down and giving cover a target youre not the vital part of the army youre supporting the vital part taking out the enemy and winning the battle. this "picking up a gun" you call it has proven to be quite effective against modern armies (not civillians). the only thing isis rather helpless against are air support which civillians wont be able to use
Even asking this question requires ignorance of basic geography. ISIS is currently holding a chunk of land somewhere between the size of Belgium and the size of Jordan. You're talking 35k square miles, and they're having trouble administering that much land with a reasonably friendly population and weak central governments. 39 of the 50 states are larger than that. From a purely administrative standpoint, ISIS would have difficulty holding Maine.
Then you have the numbers problem. Estimates of ISIS' strength range from 20k to 100k. Thats a lotta kebab, right? Not in relation to the US population. Even if you disregard active military entirely, the US has something like 22 million veterans. If even 1% are under the age of 40 and not disabled they outnumber the most generous estimate of ISIS' strength 10 to 1.
Don't like the vet numbers? Theres still cops, prison guards, and private security to consider.
Even private citizens are going to be a challenge. To an outside observer, I look like your average upper middle class yuppie. I'm in my early 30s, highly educated, not politically active. I'm not a vet I'm not a prepper, I've never held a job involving weapons. I do a little target shooting in my spare time. My closest has more than a dozen guns and I've got close to 15k rounds of ammo on hand right now.
>>574622030 this, not only is it illegal to kill Mexican immigrants who pose no threat to you, it would have been perfectly legal to shoot Japanese Soldiers if they had ever landed on American soil in WW2, in fact it probably would have been encouraged by the American government, and forced out of them by the Japs who loved to rape conquered women, and execute their husbands.
>>574632187 No... Base of fire is the key to fire and movement combat. I was a 0331, base of fire was exactly what I did. And no, picking up a gun has not proven to be quite effective against a modern military, using IEDs has.
Perhaps you should acquire some knowledge of combat yourself before commenting on the effectiveness of others?
>>574632243 Its not just the South they'd have to worry about. The midwest would be difficult >urban areas with hostile organized criminal elements, large police forces, and wealthy hobbyists >rural areas flush with hunters, target shooters, and vets >Further north would become a serious problem in the winter
The South West would be a nightmare >All that goddamn land >Gun culture everywhere >Hardy Mexican immigrants who aren't going to give up Catholicism or the other stuff nobody talks about in public
How about the Northwest? >Survivalists outside of the city >Urban areas with enough uber wealthy people to fund some serious private security forces >Rough winters and a lot of land to cover
New England should be easy, though, right? >Bad winters >Large police forces >Too many people to adequately supervise in the urban areas >Further north you have bad winters deer hunters >Organized crime from the Italians, Russians, Irish, and blacks
>>574633072 I also carry regularly, but you'd never know. Thats another problem ISIS would have. You can't pat down everyone. I can ding a six inch steel target with a 1911 at 50 yards all day. Can you imagine trying to manage a checkpoint in the city when you've got millions of people walking around, looking totally normal, who can take a shot and just be fucking gone?
>>574634680 Well, yeah, but if you're trying to hold a hostile populace its a hell of a lot easier to know who is a threat from a distance if they have a rifle. I could be wearing t-shirt, board shorts, and sandals with an invisible pistol that can make decent 30-50 yard shots. I'm trying to envision how ISIS would defend against something like that.
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