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>>578940326 Cause I believe in shit I can see and test with my own fuckin hands. I'm not gonna take anyone's word for anything. The day God comes down from the heavens and touches me or some shit I'll take my ass to church and praise the fuck out of him.
>>578940826 Yes it is how it works. "God exists" (or more appropriately, the cause of the universe was an intelligent being) is not a claim in the same way that, "An invisible teapot orbits the moon" is a claim. In the latter case, there is a null hypothesis that can be adhered to. In the former, there isn't.
In fact, the former claim can better be compared to a coin flip. You cannot say, "I don't have any evidence the coin will land on heads so therefore I'm a tail-ist" because there isn't any evidence either way.
Similarly, there is no evidence that suggests that the cause of the universe was either an intelligent being or that it was an unintelligent process. Hence there is no null hypothesis and the claim, "I lack a belief in a God" makes no sense.
Well if you lack a belief in a God, I simply lack a belief in an unintelligent process.
>>578940326 not an atheist nor a believer but I think the main issue I have with most atheists is that oftentimes they closely mirror the behavior of christians, i.e. trying to "convert" everyone, smug in the knowledge that they "know" there is not god etc.
>1. God is the greatest being that can be conceived of >2. God exists in the mind (we have thoughts about God, conceptions of God, etc) >3. if a being exists in the mind, then a greater being would be one that exists BOTH in the mind AND in reality >4. since God is the greatest being that can be conceived of, God must exist in reality.
Declaring yourself to be an atheïst is the same fuckign thign as saying that NOT collecting stamps is your favourite hobby. I don't really give a shit what fedorawearing neckbeards believe in, but let's be honest: nobody cares one bit about whatever you MLP-wanking think about.
Hello, if u stop reading u will die tonight. My name is Gamma. I'm already dead I had no friends if you don't post this on 5 threads you will die at exactly 11:59 pm. Don't believe me? A guy named jake read this and laughed. that same night I took a knife and stabbed him to death. you dont wanna be jake do you? A girl named Sandra read this and posted it on 3 threads. Silly girl. Only 11 but later she saw me and ran to her grandmothers house and asked to go to the bathroom but guess what? I was already there now she is in a coma. Smart boy fell his tea and reposted 5 times and the next day he won the lottery and his girl said yes to marriage. 0 reposts = death. 1,2,3 or 4 reposts = coma. 5 reposts = something good is gonna happen to you .
>>578942137 >there is no evidence that suggests that the cause of the universe was either an intelligent being or that it was an unintelligent process This may be true, but there is also no evidence for or against leprechauns. Yet you would not hesitate to say you do not believe in those (hopefully you would not...)
Right. Not believing in leprechauns is called adhering to the null hypothesis.
However, how the universe came into being is a dichotomy. Either it was some intelligent being or it was some unintelligent process.
Put another way, there is nothing we have to explain that a leprechaun satisfies. It is simply a random claim made for no reason. However, we do have something to explain when discussing if there is or is not a god. Why is the universe here? Why isn't it all just nothing?
A God is a plausible, albeit as yet untestable explanation for that observation. An unintelligent process is also a plausible, albeit as yet untestable explanation to the observation. So I don't see how you can adhere to either one and claim you are simply adhering to the null hypothesis. There is no null hypothesis in this situation. Just like there is none when you flip a coin.
>>578943735 Incorrect, one can conceive of a largest real number that is strictly less than two just as one can conceive of any deity one would like.
In fact by writing the previous sentence I have conceived of such a number. I have formed and communicated the idea of a number that is strictly less than two and is bigger than all of the others that are strictly less than two.
The ability to conceive of a thing is not predicated on the existence of said thing.
>>578940326 There is no god. The universe is run on physics, on systems that run how things operate. Physics controls how everything interacts. What we call "life" is a system in itself, that runs because, now that it's been initiated, continues to run. By consuming energy, it is able to continue its functions, exactly like a star. Even our consciousness is just a system. Much like a computer, exactly like a computer, actually. If you look at the internals of a computer, you see that there is no POINT to why it runs. It runs because there is a system of physics that allows it to run that way. We didn't INVENT it, we figured it out. Much like our own brains, on a ridiculously more complex scale. There is no point to life. We are automatons, running on energy, that exist simply because, in some point and time in the infinity that is the universe, life, one of the countless system in our universe, began.
>>578942202 1 The creation of the world is the most marvellous achievement imaginable. 2 The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator. 3 The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement. 4 The most formidable handicap for a creator would be nonexistence. 5 Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being - namely, one who created everything while not existing. 6 An existing God therefore would not be a being greater than which a greater cannot be conceived because an even more formidable and incredible creator would be a God which did not exist. Ergo: 7 God does not exist.
>God proclaims to have put everything on Earth for the benefit of his chosen species, man who was "made in his image". Every plant, animal and natural element. Then why did he make asbestos, which is a natural forming element but ONLY HARMFUL TO MAN, not harmful to any other animal.
Does not compute.
>God claims to be beneficent, and the fact this planet feeds us, waters us and gives us shelter is proof. Right? So why did he make child cancer and other child mortal diseases?
Hello, if u stop reading u will die tonight. My name is Gamma. I'm already dead I had no friends if you don't post this on 5 threads you will die at exactly 11:59 pm. Don't believe me? A guy named jake read this and laughed. that same night I took a knife and stabbed him to death. you dont wanna be jake do you? A girl named Sandra read this and posted it on 3 threads. Silly girl. Only 11 but later she saw me and ran to her grandmothers house and asked to go to the bathroom but guess what? I was already there now she is in a coma. Smart boy fell his tea and reposted 5 times and the next day he won the lottery and his girl said yes to marriage. 0 reposts = death. 1,2,3 or 4 reposts = coma. 5 reposts = something good is gonna happen to you . .
>>578946580 I'm not a theoretical physicist or even a little bit familiar with theoretical physics, so I won't comment on those theories. All I know for sure is that the idea of an invisible, benevolent, all-powerful father figure who also never actually does anything we can observe just smells like bullshit to me in the exact same way as leprechauns, unicorns, Easter Bunny and so on.
look it up fuckhead. It's onlu harmful to humans because of the size of our nodes in our lungs are exactly the right size for asbestos perticles to get stuck in. Any other animal's lungs can breath asbestos in and out without harm as the elements do not get ledged in the nodes.
Anything else ignorant cunt?
Anyway...even if your ignorant statement was true, why would he make a NATURAL ELEMENT that would harm "God's creatures".
DOES NOT COMPUTE FUCKER...YOU HEAR IT? DOES NOT FUCKING COMPUTE = DOES NOT EXIST.
>>578941560 you can't prove that there's no fairies. yet most people are perfectly willing to accept it's a social construct. however, when it comes to gods, it's taken seriously... although there's literally thousands of concepts of gods, all bearing the traits of the culture that believes in them. even the christian god isn't the same in america as it is in the middle east where the concept came from.
and especially with monotheists, each individual seems to think that their god totally agrees with everything they think is right. as if the god relies on what that person thinks. the idea of gods can even be traced. it shows that a culture will believe in a god or gods that seem to explain all the unexplained things around them.
and many of the gods people believe in excludes the existence of other gods, and monotheism excludes every other god.
so one thing is clear, and that is that gods are a social construct. whether there is a god or not, we do know we make up gods. because if monotheism was true, it means we made up all the other ones. and if polytheism is true, then at least the monotheistic gods are made up.
and so, if we know for a fact that humans have a tendency to make up gods that adhere to their culture, then you can be very sure it's an idea we made up. that means that there's no reason to assume such an idea to be anything else than any other myth or story we have invented.
we may not be able to prove there is no god, but we can prove with 100% confidence it's a man-made concept. and if there was a god, it still would mean that the probability any of us got it even remotely right, is basically at 0%, considering how fucking advanced and detailed the universe is, and we didn't research it before we made the concepts of our gods.
The ontological argument rests on the assertion that the superlative object must necessarily exist. The non-existence of greatest number strictly less than two is a counter example to that assertion. Conception is not predicated on existence.
As to the particulars of my example, it is not loosely defined. The concept is in fact quite precisely defined, and has rather specific and unique properties.
Again the fact that it has been communicated is indicative that the concept has been formed in the mind. I.e. it has been conceived.
>>578940326 Correct, it can't be proven either way. I just don't buy it because, to me, the theory that it was a way of getting people to actually follow societal rules rather than just paying lip service when others were watching makes more sense
Its a weird thought. Just imagine if all discoveries and knowledge were wiped out and humans were back to only knowing what fire is. Eventually all of the technological and scientific discoveries would eventually develop again. But most likely an entirely different set of religions would develop.
If one religion developed again, I feel like that would be compelling evidence of a god.
>>578947437 >>578947437 >1 The creation of the world is the most marvellous achievement imaginable. Assumes that the universe was created so your first step should actually be... 1. The Universe was created. I'm just letting you know your'e begging the question. I agree with your conclusion just not your logic.
Personally, i don't like the idea of the magic book from a million years ago with all the answers in it saying how someone should live their life and what to do to make what happens after life better for them. Religon is so selfish it's insane. You spread your belief on to people who can't give less of a fuck just to make whatever happens to you better. It's for cowards that accept things for how they are and want more to life than it has to offer and they think God is the answer.
>>578948714 Do you know the big bang theory. Instantaneously at the start of time the universe was formed in the big bang. Both dark matter and regular matter were created in equal proportions. This created the laws of phisics which instantly all matter and energy was bound to.
>>578948967 >If one religion developed again, I feel like that would be compelling evidence of a god.
what about religions which die and go out of fashion...like Paganism?
Religions evolve just like technology. Further proof religion is all mumbo jumbo bullshit made to calm and "civilize" the masses. In fact what actually happens is it causes war , death, famine and suffering. Organized reiligions are evil.
>>578940326 Faith in god/gods isn't at all reliable. There's no reason for me to have faith in god/gods when there are much more reliable methods of describing how reality works that aren't just guessing.
what the profits thought god was actually an alien BOOM! theory solved BTW the people of that time were really stupid and didnt have much of a developed language so they wrote down the best that they could explain what they saw.
And the bible was written centuries after "Christ" supposedly died. But yes..all bullshit. I don't believe he was an "alien", just a clever con artist with silly tricks..like the snake charmers, who wooed his people against the invading Romans. Who executed him to "save humanity"? Oh yeah the Romans..how convenient. Fact is Jesus was the modern day Bin Laden and Roman Empire modern day US of A.
In hundreds of years, if Islam becomes the prominent religion, Bin Laden will replace Jesus as the "savior of humanity" and anyone who says different will be thought a nutcase and made a pariah...
>>578942182 These kind of atheists are like that from growing up in societies where people used legislature to restrict others' rights because their priest said to. Even if that belief wasn't in the Bible.
Religion in modern times is a huge drag on human progress.
That's what they taught us in Religious Education class in a Catholic school. Of course revisionist "history" bulshitters liek you who say dinosaur bones are made from chiken bones because they are not mentioned in the bible as god ever having created them...make up all sorts of crap to defend your idiotic fantasy about a bearded wizard in the sky.
>>578940326 I could disprove god, at least in the way you think of a creator. But it really would not matter. You would not believe me, even if I could show you something tangible. bad troll is bad. I suggest if you want to have a religious debate, build a time machine (yes it's possible) go back to 2016 and watch for yourself as the EDOs (Extra Dimensional Organisms) are introduced to the world and all the religious systems around the planet collapse. This is like 6th grade GIH (Galactic Interspecies History) we are talking about here.
oh and I like your certainty: "no". Like you know more than scholars who have been studying the bible for all their life but still are not sure when it was written. You religious nuts are the dumbest, thickest shit on the planet...it's because of morons like you we never evolve beyond the primitive Dark Ages stage. Do you also still believe the Earth is flat and the sun revolves around the Earth? You might as well since what you believe has no bearing on reality.
>>578952901 This isn't karma. It rains on the just and unjust. It is sin that in general causes measles to exist and babies to die.
What you are claiming is essentially an appeal to emotion. Human beings are absolutely evil and incapable of a single good deed. That is a fact.
Gravity, for example, is also a fact. If I jump off a bridge and die on impact, that's sad. But you can't make the argument, "That gravity is mean and kills people. I don't like it. Therefore it's not true."
Similarly, if you don't like that mankind is evil, you can avoid it. But it is a fact.
>>578940326 I am an athiest because there are so many religions that all predict gods and the origin of the universe. If they knew so much about gods they would know much more about reality in general. Like that our universe isn't the biggest thing out there. It's a multiverse. Multiple dimensions stacked upon each other. There was existence before the Big Bang. If we knew so much about God we would know just as much about the universe. But every religion seems to be mentally retarded when it comes to physics and that itself is enough to dismiss all religions.
>>578954191 In your future, people will be murdered in the street like the ancient west. Hung in the town center for all to see. As a reminder of what happens when we let religion take hold in our society. Great change comes to you on fiery wings of steel. And with vibrations of malice the ground shall crack and crumble swallowing all. The new age is upon you humans. I hope you are ready. :)
I am not an atheist by any stretch. I personally have faith. You can say that faith is for the wretched or the blessed. It might be said that faith is only for anons that have not faced great evil or anons that have never needed to face it. Atheists tend to be the bland folks that have not been tested.
>>578954363 >This isn't karma. It rains on the just and unjust.
Then your God must be evil. Fine, just admit it and I;m fine with that. Unless you can rationalize somehow why an omnipotent being would be happy with seeing babies die. Then you must have the mentality of a psycho...which you probably are as religions and psychosis seem to go hand in hand i.e. all the priests who abuse children.
> If I jump off a bridge and die on impact, that's sad. But you can't make the argument, "That gravity is mean and kills people.
You have a choice whether to jump or not, babies do not. Suicide is supposedly "a sin", babies have never sinned. Why would God be content with the fatc he created a disease which could kill babies? HE MUST BE FUCKING EVIL, THERE'S NO OTHER EXPLANATION.
You can accept it...I wont. If there is a God he is evil. And there's nothing you can say that can disprove it if you are a normal, rational human being.
Unless you are content with your God killin babies because of the sin of other men... so why did this Jesus fellow come down to "save" us.
Fucking weird religion you worship..might as well worship a couch.
This is a meaningless statement. It ventures nothing and asserts nothing. I'm an atheist because, while there's no proof against it, there's no real reason to believe in it in the first place.
"Buh-buh, how did the universe begin?"
The fact that there's still mystery in the universe doesn't automatically mean there's a god either. To me, saying 'god did it' is self condemning in that it admits to having a limited imagination. Just because something is complex doesn't mean it was intentional. Or planned. We are the pattern seeking life forms here. We name and chart the connections, but as far as the universe is concerned our consciousness could exist or not exist; same difference. A man admiring a beautiful mountain may think in his mind that the mountain was created for him to admire. The mountain itself has no regard for the man admiring it. The mountain is the result of tectonic plate movement. This would have happened whether or not any humans were there. The man's admiration for the mountain is incidental in regards to its nature.
Your father was flesh and blood.
Trying to claim a god of our own design created all this is too solipsistic. It makes you feel important by proxy because your dad built the entire universe. The reality is that we're just a mere part of this much, much, much larger picture.
In other words, the universe doesn't need us. For us to assert our own character as the creator of everything reveals the limitation of our understanding. We find the real answer by observing, not by repeating a story someone told us to believe.
tldr: I'm an atheist because I believe that we gain knowledge by discovering the universe as it really exists, as opposed to assuming it was built by a human invented father figure.
Yes they did u cunt. Were you there? How do you know they did not? I absolutely can confirm, you religious nut, that they taught us that and still do. Do you even fucking know where I am from? No exactly you assuming dickhead.
You fucking religious weirdos are so arrogant and thickheaded. Jeeezus!
fuck off idiot...you're just a thickheaded religious nut who can't accept the truth and holds onto this bullshit daddy figure in the sky because you are an insecure and weak human being who "must be guided by the shepherd" i.e. no better than a fucking farm animal.
Use your own brain if you have one not the one your pedo priest had when he molested you...cunt
>>578956414 Speaking of faith, faith is believing something without evidence or despite evidence to the contrary. Carbon dating provides a range of possible dates, and can be wildly inaccurate. Carbon dating on cooled lava from 1900 gave results of thousand of years old. And if the levels of carbon present is not constant (protip: evidence suggests carbon in the atmosphere and environment is not constant) carbon dating could be off by one or more half-lifes in either direction.
But the current trend in liberal education is to tell people that unthinking, unquestioning acceptance of atheism and the theory of evolution is the highest form of critical thinking. (protip: read that statement carefully, think about what it means; then consider what evidence would be required to support life beginning as single-cell organisms and research if that proof exists).
JESUS CHRIST IT GIVES FUCKING PROOOOOF THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN CENTURIES AFTER...WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOUR HEAD???
Please don't fucking breed you fucking thickheaded bastard...
You need to learn how to capitalise after a period. I like religious nuts like you, always ready to criticize other people failings but never your own. FUCKING WEIRDO RELIGIOUS NUT HYPOCRITE BASTARD FUCK OFF.
>>578958136 Well I used to live in a haunted house. Saw this one specter as I would call it always laying on the couch in a mirror. Upstairs would change temperatures quickly. The basement was terrifying.
I was a kid at the time, but when we moved out I never had another one of these experiences.
Also seen UFO's fly around some, not really related to god but they're pretty cool.
Because the creation of religion by humanity seems much more likely than the divine. I..don't really see how anyone sees it any other way when every human culture, even the totally isolated ones, all have some version of supernatural belief.
Anyone could just make up anything that couldn't be disproven. There is an invisible pink teapot orbiting the earth - can't prove me wrong etc etc. There's a reason we don't accept shit like that.
>>578959028 This is entertaining. So zero=many, thousands of years off (Hawaiian lava) is accurate and infallible, asking you to examine theories and statements and then examine whether or not they have adequate supporting evidence makes me a religious nut who won't reason. Is it still summer?
>>578959224 It also falls in line with the other theistic arguement that "The universe is fine tuned for life with all of the fundamantal forces and shit."
Really, have you ever tried living on mercury or pluto? How about the bottom of the ocean or the suffocating upper atnosphere? I suppouse humans could thrive upon the event horizion of a black hole because the universe is fine tuned for our type of life?
>>578947969 Dying isnt even the worst thing to happen to someone. If they are innocent then they can live in paradise for eternity. If you want to believe in god than you must realize that this life is not all there is.
>>578959419 >God could make a rock that fills the entire universe but he could still lift it
Prove it. And why is your god a "he"?
Can your god do anything? Can they do anything with a single thought? Does your god know everything? Does your god know how to destroy itself with a single thought? Could your god destroy itself with a single thought? Should not your god have destroyed itself with but a single thought if it can really do anything with a single thought? And would not your god have already destroyed itself and the entire universe (with a single thought) by now?
>>578940326 1, because as a Jesuit scholar, I actually got to read the history of the abrahamic faiths all the way back to Egypt. It makes atheists out of everyone.
...and it taught me avery important lesson. I now don't believe things until I have a reason to believe them.
My default value is 0, not 1. ...if it was 1, I would have to believe in so much invisible undetectable magical supernatural speculation I would live my whole life in a cloud of confusion and not know which way was up.
>>578944448 >>578962605 The only way I could see God as capable of being intelligent or existing is as some kind of giant brain or cloud of electrical impulses. This is my main concern with agnostic or deistic arguments saying that some sort of intelligent force created the universe. If this cloud or entity exists in our universe, wouldn't we at least EVENTUALLY be able to detect it? If it exists outside our universe, how was it able to create and then affect ours? If either of these are the case, then where did IT come from?
Now the conversation is getting interesting again. I would argue religion and philosophy matter in the question of what happens after you die. When I was 15 I had a near death experience. There have been studies of what people report from near-death experiences (in big cities a dozen or more people a day may be revived from a near death experience). It varies by culture and religion, with younger people being less likely to report a tunnel of light or similar experience.
Humans interpret data in ways they can understand, it seems likely that whatever sensory input gets experienced is translated or interpreted into what the culture or religion says will happen. I don't know if any studies have examined what atheists report.
>>578947514 This earth isn't supposed to be perfect, it was until adam and eve first sinned, then sin was born into an otherwise perfect world. This led people to follow the word of god to GET into heaven, not be born into it.
>>578940326 I wish to minimize my false beliefs and maximize my true beliefs.
One way I achieve this is by withholding belief if we don't know if it's true or not. Given the OP image, I cannot place belief in god, and doing so would be a threat to my desire to minimize false beliefs. So I abstain from believing one way or another.
>>578964275 What was this incarnation of the devil? And the parachute malfunction survival can be attributed to more than just an act of god. I rolled my car 4 times excessively speeding on the highway, walked away without a scratch, no harm came to me whatsoever. But I refuse to believe that it had anything to do with divine intervention.
What if I told you that if you understand the concept of infinite perfection and thruth you somewhat believe in a form of transcendence. The object of God is alwats painted as a physic intellect bein. Yet, it could simply be the origin of something.
>>578966185 Agnostics are better than most other religious people in that they are more rational and are simply remaining neutral until an indisputable conclusion is reached. At this point agnostics are the only group that still have a glimmer of a chance since the amount of evidence against essentially all popular religions and the flaws in their ideologies prevent them from being a sound point of view, regardless of how much faith they might have in them.
But no one can acess the end of infinity so no atheist nor believer can fully comprehend with full integry the object of god. It would be like askin monkeys to describe the mind of the ubermensch contained in nietzsche theory.
>>578967949 Which god is your god m8? Because if it is the Christian one (which i suspect, considering all this talk of the Devil), then your statements are null. A God might exist. It is very unlikely but it is an argument that could be made with great difficulty. The Christian god however, is no longer feasible. The same goes for most forms of God being worshipped by people on earth.
>>578968338 If you believe in the RIGHT god, you are rewarded, correct? So if I were say, a Muslim, and believed in Allah with all my heart, but the Christian god is the true god, I would go to hell. If the god YOU believe in is not the right one, Zeus for example, then you end up in the underworld.
>>578944448 Multiverse allows for many scenarios. Maybe there's no God in this universe but one god in other. Or multiple Gods in another, or dead Gods in yet another universe, or mortal to ascended godhood in yet another. Even if there's no god in this universe, it wouldn't rule out gods in other universes.
>>578962609 If your god can do anything with a single though and also holds all knowledge then your god must have within its thoughts the thought that would destroy itself with a single thought and if that thought were ever thought then it would have destroyed itself with that thought.
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