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>>601914097 >>601914147 >>601913769 >>601912875 life doesnt mean anything and the more you attempt to believe that you have a purpose you cant think of anything. you realize that everything that has ever existed exists out of a mathematical coincidence instead of a divine force deciding that it should exist. Even whenever you have everything you ever wanted, its still not enough. emotions are just chemical cocktails in your brain that drive you towards one thing which is the will to reproduce and make more humans who will reproduce and so on. Nobody cares about you. They only care about themselves and your close friends and family only claim to care about you so that their lives will be benefitted. even if there is an afterlife, the fact that i would have to keep my consciousness for an eternity as terrifying because the very awareness of being alive is depressing to me.
you are driven by the question of what life means, which is to say you are choosing to believe that you need to quantify/justify your existence. you're probably one of those assholes that always needs to be right about things. if you can give up the need to be correct, you give up the need to "know" things, and your "crisis" ends.
>>601914603 You still experience so much more than inanimate objects. Honestly if your thinking about killing yourself, don't. Not because of a vain hope things will be better, but because unless you've the whole world (probably not) there's still something out there that could change the ENTIRE way you look at things. Not religion but just attitudes if you only look in the dark that's all there will ever be. There once was a story of a man wanting to kill himself but he went to mexico and banged hookers and snorted coke for a week and decided to keep living. Just enjoy it while it lasts.
>>601914603 Damn I feel kind of the same way. The more you think about the world the more kind of disappointing insights you get. Right now in time humanity's concept of the world is so unnatural, it's no wonder hundreds of millions of people are miserable and/or depressed.
Check out this trailer I really hope you'll check the movie out, it might help pull you out of your crisis, it's not all so bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4XlKtSROp8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJhGuR6fnSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBTDDfytBEM
>>601915216 everything matters and little or as much as you believe it does. providing justification for why something matters or doesn't does nothing to affect how much it actually matters. that's completely up to the perciever, and different perceptions benefit different people in different ways. for all you know, EVERYTHING you do has TREMENDOUS impact in the context of the universe. that could be equally freeing and tormenting.
>>601915216 I'm pretty sure this is how 90% of artists end up. >>601914603 I suggest you read up on philosophy. That whole field of study is designed to combat bouts of crisis like this. >>601915595 Preach.
I used to have that kind of existential crisis. But then I realized that, as much as I mean nothing to the Universe, the Universe means nothing to me. It's timescale and dimension surpass me so greatly, and my small human mind can only live in an infinitly fraction of that. So the fact that the Universe will continue living without me is irrelevant, because I can't know or even understand what will be after me. I cannot understand the immense void between our star and the next one. I am the center of my Universe, because I am the center of what I understand.
The point here is that, as far as you're concerned, the Universe begins and ends with you. Sure, everything points towards the fact that you will not matter in the least in the scale of the Universe, but that scale doesn't even mean anything.
>>601914603 like looking at yourself in a mirror for the first time OP...bonus points if on acid.
self aware of your own existence, then aware of existence itself, aware of its futility, only to then be aware of the futility of it being futile. Its like a neverending argument that newage/esoteric people enjoy.
basically we exist because we can perceive the universe and declare we exist as separate and yet a part of it.
but really man, all this thinking always leads to the same outcome, nobody knows, dont believe anyone who claims to know, believe in what matches your own scrutiny and intuition.
>>601917065 no, you are just wrong. something doesn't get to count as art just because someone attempted to communicate. anyone can fucking express themselves, art is called art because it fucking does it with elegance and mastery.
a failed attempt is a failed attempt, if not then we lose all standards, and greatness becomes devalued because every little piece of quirky bullshit gets treated like it's worth the same as something that required the artist to pour themselves completely into their work. your opinion is literally what is ruining art and why kids are paying 70k a year to go to "art school"
>>601917065 I'm not talking about quality or fame. What I mean is that most artist seem to have nothing to communicate. Art loses all it's meaning because the artist wanted to do something edgy, or surprising, or mildly aesthetic, and forgets to actualy say anything.
And then, there's the times where the artist did actually have a message, and he thinks he's deep and so critical of society, and he doesn't realize that his message is meaningless, it has been said a thousand times before in a thousand different ways, repeated until it lost all sense
>>601917065 yes and no, art is an expression of an individual yes.
but what people need artists for is to document the range of human emotion and range of senses to be transferred in a visual peace, and then not only to document the past, but will also inspire a future.
so it has to be pieces that resonate with the masses through a longenough period of time.
>>601914603 Damn,so true,but i will give you and advice: Just try to enjoy things as much as possible while you are alive because,imo,there's no afterlife. Also,try to gather as much knowledge as you can and live for you instead of living for the others. That's it. There's no mistical men pulling the strings or something like that and the life and the universe are perfect as they are,if you ask me.
You faggots wanna know why you're so upset over this trivial bullshit and why you're all acting like a fat emo bitch who can't get a prom date?
It's because you're all selfish as fuck. Greedy. You feel as if the world OWES you something. So fucking disgusting i swear. You fucks don't like to think the world is pointless because you feel as though you're more entitled than that. You fucks give depression a bad look.
>>601917795 You got it right my friend Art is as much expression as it is technique. I don't mean that every piece of art has to be an execution of incredible skill, but I do think art requires some thinking.
For example: this piece by Marcel Duchamp is, I think, a great work of art. It didn't require technique, but it did require thought, look for something surprising, something that would make you look at it twice and think. This was the first time a "ready-made" was expòsed at a museum, and it was brilliant
But then, every single pop artist started doing the same, and it became shitty, because you didn't have to think, you didn't have to put any effort, you could just present a Coca cola can and say it was some bullshit about capitalism. Sure, it was trying to convey a message, but the message itself was meaningless
>>601917795 I simply don't subscribe to what you call greatness, havong standards is nonsens when you talk about art, but i think that when you talk about art, you talk about the one you can buy or go see at the museum nothing needs any permission to count as art, when the first caveman blew paint on his hand he didn't care about the level of mastery he was demonstrating
>>601917822 communication is communication, intentionnal or not, if the artist comes off as shallow and pretentious, then he communicated that. only the intention matters
>>601919106 no, what you don't subscribe to is having the integrity to demand something of yourself when you set out to accomplish something. you see art as your "subjective safe haven" because you can't be bothered to apply yourself to a field with more well defined rules. Your argument is a cop out and you are hiding your laziness. I'm not even saying you have to follow any specific guidelines, any approach to art can potentially lead to good art, but there is most definitely an objective good and bad to the outcome. If you don't believe this you are delusional.
>>601918927 >>601917795 Obviously you haven't heard of modern art, or outsider art, or the famous artist Basquiat who was a failed artist in every way imaginable. The only reason he gained fame was because Warhol took him in after meeting him in the street and basically using him to add complexity to his own persona...
>>601914603 You are right. I was forced into a crisis like this (although its seemed more like a drawn out epiphany). Don't look into the afterlife anyway, its unknowable.
Beyond purpose, we only have our own desires. Make the best out of everything carnal; eat well, get intoxicated if you will, fuck, work out, learn, manipulate your peers, do whatever it takes to get what YOU want. The wanting is always better than having, so the object is to keep wanting. We are here to party, then we die.
i used to feel detached / dissociated from my body all the time, and had a few conclusions made about life like yours. after i tripped on mushies and mescaline several times i started thinking deeper than that, kind of changed my views. before you resort to drowning out your emotions using hard drugs, i suggest you TRY a psychedelic at least 3 times. i haven't ever seen a person go through a hard trip unchanged
>>601920052 Nigger you're retarded and obviously haven't sat through an art class. I had to not only memorize every muscle, bone, and tendon in the body but I had to also know how many lines each one needed to be drawn. And I needed to do this not only from the inside but the outside as well. That was just figure drawing. And just about every art grad student knows this but instead of trying to use the skills they have learned they are trying to persevere to something greater. Idk if that makes sense, but it's not a save haven, and it doesn't lack integrity that's for sure. If anything it takes a certain amount of bravery to want to dive into a field where like 5% make ends meet with art alone. I don't know about OP but if I were him, I would go find an artist and ask to be their assistant. I did this for a year as an internship and learned a fuck ton.
>>601914603 At least you get it, many people don't and end up hating themselves for not doing anything meaningful. Basically the best way to live life is to just strap in and enjoy the ride. Its gonna be over at some point. Might use your vehicle of consciousness to the fullest.
>>601912137 OP I interned for an artist that literally made art from garbage and he was a millionaire. Tom Deininger. Look him up. But God almighty talk about existential crisis, this guy's whole life was. But it's what you sign up for when you decide to go down this road. Try to enjoy the pain breh
>>601922300 That's what I'm fucking talking about, this fucking guy. Just enjoy the ride, laugh your ass off, enjoy the experiences and learn acceptance of the past. You can always be a new you, people are too stuck in a neverending loop of misery, they got to pull out of it.
>>601921623 well yeah, if you want to look at it that way then sure all art is great and nothing matters and thinking is hard and etc.
self worth is worth as much as your self. it might benefit you more than you think to have a little faith in it. >>601921632 yeah, i'm not insulting the field. i love art, i was only arguing that there's a huge movement in art right now tending towards laziness. and i commend the efforts you have put in towards the technical aspects, but would still say being able to draw a person and make them look all pretty and shit alone is not enough. there has to be something else there, to pull at the viewers soul in some way.
>>601922951 why are you so defensive. the fact that you absolutely want to have a reason to call omething great is simply because you want a meaningfull life, you're trying to make your existence worth something by pretending to witness greatness.
as for self worth, we'd have to talk about the self it attaches itself to, cause we mignt not agree about it's extent either
>>601915216 Define what failure means? To me at least, a successful artist is someone who is able to put emotion into their work, and make people feel. If a musician is not signed to a label, that does not mean they are not a musician. Same thing applies to visual artists. Even though you may not sell anything does not make you less of an artist.
Why there's an existence after all? Why the only thing that exist isn't eternal darkness for all eternity? Why must there be light and physical laws? Why nothing gave existence to something?
The more I think about it, the more I start to believe there isn't a "nothing". Nothing is a concept invented by humans, the universe isn't dark. The universe is more "colorful" than the rainbow, we just can't see it because of our senses.
We're minds trapped inside of hunter gatheres bodies. Bodies made to live on earth, not to experience the whole of existence.
Don't bother trying to understand existence, you'll never will.
It's like a 60s computer trying to run adobe reader. It's ike trying to teach a dog english.
Do what you're made to be done, live your life like a human, fuck, eat, raise kids, grow old and die. Do it, because that's the only thing we can do, that's our purpose.
>>601924368 They are still an artist. To use myself as an example, I have been playing piano for 12 years. I rarely play for people, but does that make me less of a musician? I personally reject the notion that art needs to be shared for it to be "successful". If you adopt that ideal, a lot of self deprication can be avoided
>>601923864 i feel like you really just are not grasping what i am trying to say. i don't mean to come across as defensive, because i certainly don't feel that way. more offensive if anything.
you are making broad generalizations about what i want out of life, based solely one one simple opinion i've put forth which is this: art can be very good and art can also be complete trash.
i'm not "making" my existence worth something, but yes it does have inherent worth to me. i mean it's my existence and i'm the only one who gets to experience it, so it's a pretty awesome gift. and we all get that gift, so if you are putting some creative work out there to represent it, yeah i fucking think it should be representative of that. if you are willing to put out half assed art, you are basically saying, "yeah i don't really care about myself or anything i do, but look isn't this kinda neat looking?"
>>601914603 You fail to see the incredibly small chance that you even exist. Of course on the surface it seems pointless. But if you dig deeper you will see that WE are the divine force driving this existence. We came from microbial life to being able to move mountains and fly through the sky and even venture away from earth. We barely touch other planets but years from now we could possibly create stars. And you are a small peice in this puzzle that is driving humanity to become divine and one day if not now being able to call ourselves gods.
>>601924505 other forms of life still experience things, whether it be knowledge of what is safe/poses a danger. and at least for bacteria, if you think about it plasmids could be considered a form of experience
If you feel like you're never going to make something out of yourself then stop crying like a bitch and go make your life worth something to yourself. Fuck what everyone else thinks, as long as at the end of the day you can have no regrets.
>>601926634 you can preface "art" with any word you like, i still think it can all come in good and bad forms. to a certain degree it's subjective, and i certainly accept there's probably some pretty good art, that i still don't find value in just because it doesn't strike me in the same way it strikes others. the only thing i won't back down from is that some art is just garbage, and saying it's still good cause as least someone is expressing themselves just feels like bullshit to me. i just think there should be some standards in art.
as far as ego and the self is concerned, i have found that for me it's not as evil as it sounds. in entry level psychedelic/philosophy enthusiasts it seems like chasing "ego death" is the key to being the perfect human. i feel like that only serves to rob you of all living. in my opinion your ego is your life. and one can act selfishly, while simultaneously recognizing that selfishness and tone it down when it's called for and defend it when they feel it's justified. i guess i would call that awareness of ego, which i feel is much more valuable than complete rejection of ego.
>>601920538 By "failed artist" do you mean "one of the most sincere, honest painters in modern art history"? While Warhol showed how art is more of a commericial agent to celebrate the haves and industrial power, Basquiat showed how Blacks are overlooked and can only be appreciated by high society by painting images in a way that they would see as primal
>>601927953 I'm not the guy you've been talking too but...Can you not see the value it has to the other person? You can call it garbage (and I will admit there is some pretty shitty stuff out there), but you can still call it 'good' in that it contributes to the well-being of the person who created it.
>>601927953 I actually never said all art was good what i'm saying is that art doesn't subscribe to the idea of rating and standards
and I don't think ego is evil, i simply think it doesn't exist, or another way of saying it would be that the ego extends to everything when you think about it, so when you consider the whole universe to be yourself, you got your ego death
>>601917065 I hope you didn't read the shit responses you got. Yours is a true statement. It depresses a lot of people, I think, when they realize all art is is humans communicating and some other humans "getting it".
>>601928644 the art that i'm calling garbage is stuff that looks cool, or maybe even intriguing in some cases, but falls short when it comes to delivering a shock to the soul. I do agree that those pieces may on occasion be very helpful to the creator, but they should have the sense to distinguish what is worth sharing with others and what is best to keep for themselves. the second you go out to share something, you are saying this is good, and this is good enough that others would be positively benefited by experiencing it. too often, artists lack that scrutiny of their own work.
>>601928888 i guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that point. to me art absolutely has standards, they just aren't standards that can really be defined in any way. you just know when you are looking at something with value and when you are not.
i get where you are coming from on the ego, but don't find that thought to be very useful or applicable to my interactions in everyday life. sure maybe my ego is nothing in the long run and we are all connected and yadda yadda, but in the day to day, my ego has a purpose.
>>601930598 it's as real as you want it to be. your philosophy can tell you anything you want about the ego, but philosophy is all just perspective on life in the end, not life itself. and within life itself, the ego is very real.
>>601930880 right i agree there is a danger on declaring subjective standards. i'm an optimist in that way and believe there is some objectivity underlying subjectivity, but that is a hard argument to have. i guess i can only say, that if it wasn't true, there wouldn't be universally adored works of art. clearly, there are some things that are only good subjectively, yet somehow we all agree on their greatness.
>>601931646 in some ways i do too. but how often does that belief affect how you behave in everyday life? i still see everyone i know as separate individuals, and if i didn't i think it would make things quite difficult.
>>601930572 I think you're right. A poem, a song, and a painting are equally art when they resonate with an audience and that's all that really matters. People just get caught up in the crap that's constantly spewed forward, the funny thing is that's just life. It's 99% shit but that 1% makes it worth it. It's when you find those lines in a poem that make you bawww your little face off when you realize another human being hundreds of years ago felt exactly like you do now. That's art and oddly enough that's life.
>>601932193 treat people the way you would want to treat yourself, obviously this is /b/ so people have some fucked up ways of treating themselves, but show compassion, be considerate, help people who can get helped but you can't help people who can't help themselves
This... This is what I'm talking about. This is what I mean when I'm talkin' about time, and death, and futility. all right there are broader ideas at work, mainly what is owed between us as a society for our mutual illusions. 14 straight hours of staring at DB's, these are the things ya think of. You ever done that? You look in their eyes, even in a picture, doesn't matter if they're dead or alive, you can still read 'em. You know what you see? They welcomed it... not at first, but... right there in the last instant. It's an unmistakable relief. See, cause they were afraid, and now they saw for the very first time how easy it was to just... let go. Yeah They saw, in that last nanosecond, they saw... what they were. You, yourself, this whole big drama, it was never more than a jerry rig of presumption and dumb will, and you could just let go. To finally know that you didn't have to hold on so tight. To realize that all your life, all your love, all your hate, all your memories, all your pain, it was all the same thing. It was all the same dream, a dream that you had inside a locked room, a dream about being a person. And like a lot of dreams, there's a monster at the end of it.
>>601931178 the ego is only real within conscioussness it's seems natural that you would consider the thinker of thoughts and the feeler of feelings to be yourself, but you're embedded in everything and everything is embedded in you
the ego is only an idea, it's purpose is to give you center, it has purpose but no value
>>601931686 well that's not too far from my point. if there is objectivity underlies subjectivy then what you call satandards simply turns into sime kind of natural drive towards something. there is still no point in valuing what the masses would call "great" follow you're own bliss.
The peoples republic has to be dipped in hot water so as to prevent the unfortunate realities of cancer begging for something heroic to come in through the sleet and slush. They weren't dressed for it they weren’t prepared for the horrific realities of life outside the cozening womb of the state.
>>601932440 right, that's basically what i've been trying to get at throughout the thread. art is more than being cute and clever and pretty. cute and clever and pretty are fine, but when they are placed on the same level as something that has the potential to really move a person it seems incredibly disingenuous.
>>601933025 1. there is inherent value because there is purpose. 2.i think we agreed more than we thought on where value comes from in art the whole time, but had different approaches to its discussion. 3. goodnight
That's the truth. You thinking you were alive for how long your body is, it's an illusion made by the brain. Consciousness fades away, that's why sometimes you feel like you went a while without being truly conscious. Consciousness appear when you get conscious and dies when you stop being.
Now I just made your brain create one, enjoy because you're going to die as soon as this spark of consciousness fades away.
>>601935584 Death is the absence of consciousness. A brain dead person is just as dead as a rock.
Let me put in other words. When you die, the "universe" ends. Because the universe is your personal experience. We know that things will "go on" because of that experience, but what really matters in that is our point of view. When we die, it's like the rest doesn't even exist.
The moment you lose your brain functions, you're dead.
>>601936246 That isn't a universe, that is one brain's metaverse because it is the loss of a collection of the memories of perceived experiences from a single point of view, not the totality of existence.
>>601937199 Existence only exist inside your point of view. When you die, there isn't a existence anymore. The totality of existence exists inside your mind. We all exist inside your mind. The collective known as the brain creates the universe that you experience.
I'm not trying to say exactly what I'm saying, but I can't find better words.
>>601937199 I totally agree. Life/the universe continues on without the 'person' (the brain cells), but as others have said throughout the thread, that person is simply an illusion. You are still part of the universe that continues on when 'you' die. Energy cannot be destroyed and the energy that made you you is still in existence, just not in the form that allows you to experience it. It's so fucking hard to put that into words. Holy fuck.
>>601915595 >There once was a story of a man wanting to kill himself but he went to mexico and banged hookers and snorted coke for a week and decided to keep living. On the Road? If so, I never picked up that he was suicidal
>>601925370 Theres no real need for us to make stars and shit, we just want to because thats the way we are. We couldve been born to just sit in meditation all day, but anything that evolved to do that got eaten.
Look you phantasmagorical mother fuckers, the real reason to avoid life is SUFFERING. Youre all probably under 20. You havent seen how hard life can get, ad WILL get, for everybody. You cant escape death, cancer, car accidents, and other horros. You might be questioning life when it hits you, and you certainly wont be preaching your pippy poetry no more.
>>601940179 No because without sensory input and functioning organs, that brain no longer has a point of view, its not that it has a point of view that I don't exists, it simply ceases to have a human brain organization or a determinable point of view as a human brain.
>>601939832 >phantasmagorical Fuckin A, man. But, couldn't you rephrase your reason to avoid life in away that makes the absence of suffering something to strive for. You should value your (and others) well-being instead of trying to avoid suffering. Accept that suffering exists and work towards a better future.
>>601939832 >We couldve been born to just sit in meditation all day, but anything that evolved to do that got eaten. How do you know we didn't evolve to do that. Think about it... we made it to the top of the food chain, we can control and shape so many aspects of the world we live in, and one of the only real threats to our existence is ourselves. We are in the perfect situation to just sit down and meditate.
>>601941550 It wouldnt change the fact that this is pretty much a silly game that we think is worthwhile because were programmed as such. Its only all the more crazy when you add in the horror of immolation and bone marrow cancer.
And thats just in humans. Dont forget the genocide happening everyday in nature. I bet 100,000 mice, at least, died horribly today and will again tomorrow. Sorry but I cant enjoy my sandwich when some guy is bleeding to death in front of me.
>>601943032 >Sorry but I cant enjoy my sandwich when some guy is bleeding to death in front of me. So your're just going to give up? You can't work for a better future where suffering doesn;t exist or at least is somewhat alleviated. Humans have incredible potential to shape the world around us. You don't think we have the power to stop that person from bleeding in front of us? We'll never know if we don't try and try again.
it seems i'm always in a state of dissatisfaction, and i combat it with intense apathy. unless i overcome myself i probably won't contribute anything meaningful to our species, but i'm letting that be alright, because it's easier than the alternative
I wish to die. I wish to die everyday. The only time I don't want to die is when I'm not thinking. When I'm not alone. But when I'm alone in my room, everything is crashes. Reality is gone. My thoughts, my vulnerability are all that remain. And I want to die. I don't know why I'm here. I don't know what I'm trying to accomplish. But everyday is harder than the last. So much pain. Not even trying to be edgy. I've been through so much shit in my life. I don't know why I keep going. I love no one. I feel nothing. And everything. Too much, and too little, all in the wrong places. I feel like everything is a lie. People are misguided and cruel. Love is almost completely an illusion. I contribute nothing. I would have killed myself, if I knew my family would be alright. But they won't be. My mom would probably kill herself. My dad probably would too. He already tried.
I just want a reason to go on. I don't feel like this is too much to ask. But everytime I find one, it goes away. It's hallow. Nothing matters. Fuck, I hate this planet. I hate this world. I hate existing. I wish I could just disappear and no one would remember me. That's what I want most of all.
>>601932901 >To realize that all your life, all your love, all your hate, all your memories, all your pain, it was all the same thing. It was all the same dream, a dream that you had inside a locked room, a dream about being a person. And like a lot of dreams, there's a monster at the end of it. LOL his rants are so bad and edgy. And the ending to the show was so gay. Fuck that gay show.
I often wonder what the point of living is. Not necessarily in a depressing way. But in the way of our legacy and the mark we leave;
Is it important to have one? Does it affirm your existence, or is the perception of reality and your sentience affirmation enough? If there is no meaning or rhyme to life and we're subject to entropy and eventually extinction, how do we give ourselves purpose?
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