Any pilots/ aircraft experts here?
Just spoke to someone on the train claiming to be an expert in aviation and he told me that German airlines crash earlier today was actually the result of technology that was designed to save lives...
He was telling me that modern aircraft have systems in place that will lower the aircraft's altitude if the cabin de pressurizes.
He believed that the German air disaster today was the result of a cabin de-pressurization, and the aircraft lowering it's altitude to a breathable height. But the system didn't take in to account the mountain terrain of the alps, hence sending the aircraft straight in to a mountain while the crew was unconscious from lack of oxygen.
He said that another possibility is that if they didn't have the pressure safety system, the pilot would have been unconscious, and slumped over pushing the yoke which overrides the auto pilot, sending them straight in to the mountain.
Anyone have any thoughts on what happened?
Don't we have a LOT of Airbuses stalling and crashing lately?
Don't we already know it's because the joystick is digital and it gives no visual indication of its stored setting?
Aircraft mechanic here. Either of those is very unlikely. I don't know of a system that drops the planes altitude in case of a depressurization, and usually pilots are trained to put on O2 masks quickly. So quit being so gullible you fuck.
saw the live flight data from radar.. they were in a controlled decent, going way too fast to be stalled.
scenario one is plausible, except all aircraft have whats called a Terrain awareness and warning system, which acts as a ground proximity warning. This would override a depressurization drop.
Scenario two: if the aircraft depressurized, the pilot would most likely secure an oxygen mask, and would most likely be warned before experiencing any type of hypoxia.
you crash at 800km/h in a plane
in a fast descent even more
there wont be much left of the plane or people at that speed, i mean, have you seen a car crash at 200km/h agaisnt something hard?. no fucking conspiracies here faggot.
gullable fucker OP... both those stories are bullshit. there are no systems which lower altitude in an aircraft for de pressurization, and you can't just unintentionally fly a modern passenger jet in to a mountain
Don't think airplanes have these 'safety' devices. If a cabin becomes depressurised, oxygen masks are dropped to allow enough time for the pilot to descend to a safe altitude. Therefore it is the pilot's job to descend the airplane.
Into a mountain?
Look. when shit like this is brainstormed, the first question asked would be, "what if lowering the altitude would cause the plane to run the fuck into something"
>Did anyone notice that the wreckage site looks like someone just dumped tiny pieces of trash all over the place
i thought this too, it looks way too much like what someone thought a crash should look like after watching too many action films
do we have any photos of the crash site that aren't from mass media?
>Lust spoke to someone on the train claiming to be an expert in aviation and he told me that
I'm as young and gullible as they come.
Anyone have any thoughts?
Honestly I think it is just a failure in checking the plane systems. I don't think the actual flight systems have anything to do with it but rather something critical broke or failed. I don't know shit about airplanes but from what I read.
Please enlighten me
There's mountains all over the world. This would be their first thought.
Designing a system like this would be like car makers designing a system that automatically stops a car instantly wherever it is if the brakes fail. Because you know, there's no such things as train tracks, or, highway lanes where people drive 80 Mph.
the plane in that accident was relatively intact though. almost looks as if it was not far from survivable for one or a few lucky people.
The theory with the missing Malaysia airlines flight is that whoever took the plane off course depressurised the cabin to render everyone unconscious. In that case, autopilot kept flying the plane where it was told to go, until. The plane ultimately ran out of fuel.
Something that really pisses me off is that people inside the planes actually film the crashes, but no one bothers picked up the broken phones to get the video data off the chips. I guarantee that people would have filmed from inside the planes and I guarantee that the chips with the stored video would have survived.
How far is not far?
Posting bcuz same deal- plane hits terrain at high speed
The phones my be impossible to find in the debris, especially if there's a fire.
This is the real world. Not make believe movies, like where they find the undamaged passports of terrorists after 2 planes crash, and burn and 3 buildings collapse.
well i don't know but 4 people surived and 520 died in this one
I have a degree in flight technology, I can describe pretty much all of the high tech instrumentation in any airliner flying today, down to which circuit it's found on and which circuit its backup is on. I have never heard of any system that will automatically fly an airplane to a safer altitude in the event of a depressurization.
A plane's autopilot system typically deactivates in the event of irregular flight conditions (usually like the loss of a pitot-static tube reading which would result in the loss of an airspeed indication). As mentioned earlier, there are systems in the cockpit that alert the pilots of depressurization/loss of oxygen, and pilots are very well trained when it comes to donning masks in time, masks are intentionally placed close to pilots to minimize the time required to attain them. Additionally, airliners are equipped with a ground proximity warning systems which have aural and visual warnings which are unique to any other warnings as not to confuse the pilots.
I don't know anything about this particular incident as I have not read anything about it yet, but I can definitely tell you that the plane did not autopilot itself to a lower altitude simply because it knew it needed to get to an altitude with more oxygen (below 10,000 ft). It may be possible (though very unlikely) that the plane was in autopilot at the time of crash, but if it was, it was certainly not because of some fictitious feature like an automatic piloting mechanism assuming control of the airplane.
Elevator jackscrew sheared off I reckon, sticking the plane in a steady downward trajectory. Its happened before with Alaska Airlines Flight 261. Pilots were probably too busy trying to rectify the situation to send out an emergency response and didn't see the mountains through cloud.
What? Are you offended that it crashed? It crashed, the media reported it crashed, the whole world knows its crashed. Stop being such a sensitive douche this is the reason why people are so stupid nowadays. NOT TALKING ABOUT IT DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING
>Alaska Airlines Flight 261
nasty accident. the flight recorder transcript is terrifying. at one point they were literally flying upside down. imagine being a passenger
>16:19:43 F/O: Mayday
>16:19:49 CAPT: Push and roll, push and roll.
>16:19:54 CAPT: Ok, we are inverted...and now we gotta get it.
>16:20:04 CAPT: Push push push...push the blue side up.
>16:20:16 CAPT: Ok now lets kick rudder...left rudder left rudder.
>16:20:18 F/O: I can't reach it.
>16:20:20 CAPT: Ok right rudder...right rudder.
>16:20:38 CAPT: Gotta get it over again...at least upside down we're flying.
sadly couldn't find actual audio
As someone who flys these - there is no system that will automatically descend the aircraft in the event of depressurisation.
However if it was an explosive decompression the time of useful consciousness at that altitude is 15-20 secs. It is feasible that pilot incapacitation played a part in this, but only after they initiated the descent.
in a loss of cabin pressure, the pilots have personal tanks that last much longer than the passenger oxygen, which lasts roughly 60-70 seconds. the pilot could have countered the autopilot by pulling back on the yolk, leveling the plane knowing he was over the alps.
>claims to fly planes
>can't even spell flies
>assumes explosive decompression
>no evidence plane wasn't fully intact at impact
>assumes pilot would initiate nose Dave before becoming unconscious
I'm not even sure you've seen a plane, let alone flown one.
Pilot here: it's strange to see that they held the airspeed up. The descent profile actually looks fairly normal, just very steep, as if it had a dual engine failure. However, the airspeed continues to hover around 400 knots, well above the airplane's best glide speed. It's possible that the data came from the ADS-B transmitter and I believe that's a very accurate source of ground speed at least.
If I had to guess at this point, there was a fire or emergency which forced the pilots to try to get on the ground ASAP, but something else must have gone wrong to prevent them from making it to an airport. Maybe the fire burned through hydraulics or wiring harnesses. It will be interesting to see the report results.
>Final seconds of life
>I should film this
Also its unlikely that people could see out the window and now exactly when the impact was coming or if it was at all, maybe the pilots said nothing and people assumed they would make an emergency landing at an airport and then BAM.
Most of the passengers on an airplane cant even see out the windows, plus if its cloudy.
There's no autosystem that will bring the plane down.
We have an emergency procedure where we do a rapid descent to 10,000' to breathable air.
It looks like they did this but lost situational awareness of where the terrain is.
Still doesn't explain why they went below 10,000 - the minimum safe altitude in that area was 15,000' and why they didn't get any terrain warnings from the aircraft (they probably did get it but it was too late to maneuver away)
777 pilot here (not joking)
Serious question dude, coming from a dude that hates flying, even before these recent crashes. Can you see anything in the near future in regards aviation technology that will add extra safety to these fuckers? I know statistically it's more likely to die on the way to the airport blah blah. But jesus, it just seems like such a shitty way to go. And does stuff like this ever make you re-think your career?
so. local ppl in france saw and heard jet-planes in the area.. us have planes on nato-training in the same area...
it is true that aircrafts have this automatic system but its just a backup. pilots have those oxygenmasks. Also there is a system called TWS (Terrain Warn System) in place which has a higher priority then the oxygen descend. if it detects an approaching to terrain, itll pull up the aircraft automatically. My guess is they just got into a stall and lost the control.
>mfw I see she has no face after I taste that sweet booty hole
Haven't read the thread but I'm an Airbus A320 pilot for an airline in the States. The aircraft won't automatically put itself into an emergency descent, that's a pilot memory item and it is done by disengaging the autopilot.
Not enough info to speculate on what happened yet
well, this type of plane has 3 rows of seats on both sides and that's all, nothing inbetween, if you watch a video of the inside, you can clearly see, that the people sitting in the 2 closest rows to the windows can easily see out on the windows if they want, which would be 2/3rd of the passengers
Forgot to mention...
There is however a known issue with the pitot static system where the airplane thinks it is getting close to stall speed when in reality it isn't. It is reacting to a faulty indication on the airspeed indicator. The aircraft will nose itself down to avoid stalling. In this case the pilots need to force the airplane into alternate law to regain control. This can be done by shutting off two of any redundant flight control computer. So like turning off two of the ADRs. There was an OEB put out about this a few months ago.
>too fast to be stalled
when the nose is pointed upwards at a angle higher then the engines can takeit will indeed go into a stall while taking additional speed because it hastn got enough force to climb at that rate and descends -> the airflow is broken -> stall. Happened a few times, pilots were wonmdering why they were losing altitude and kept pointing the nose upwards - resulting in a crash.
I'm not the pilot, I'm the guy with the flight technology degree, but man you sound pretty retarded.
You obviously have no concept of how safe airplanes actually are. It's very rare for a mechanical failure to bring down an airplane these days because they are so well maintained and nothing gets overlooked. Pilots are impeccably trained, they are required to have several thousands of hours of training in their particular aircraft before they are allowed to fly, and they fly numerous simulated emergency situations.
It would take me months to describe to you just how safe airplanes, pilots, and the NAS actually are. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
SO you assume passenegrs who either know they are about to die, or who think everything is fine,are for some reason filming out the windows all the time, recording.. glorious shots of dazzling whit cloud tops, or of dazzling grey cloud interiors.
But yeah assume they are all doing that, why would it matter? What do you expect to learn from a bunch of crappy phone video that shows nothing except, maybe, a half-second of mountainside at the end. We already know they hit a mountain.
>the pilot would have been unconscious, and slumped over pushing the yoke which overrides the auto pilot, sending them straight in to the mountain.
First, there are two pilots. Second, there is no yoke in the Airbus, it has a sidestick on for each pilot. Third, the crew would have been alerted to a depressurization by the airplane and even if they weren't, they would have woken up long before they got to 6,000AGL. They would have been hypoxic above 23,000 which they were only above that altitude for 5 or ten minutes. The crew would have regained consciousness by 10,000 ft.
>You have absolutely nothing to worry about
That's all well and good buddy but try telling that to the corpses of these people, and the ones still lying at the bottom of the ocean from the malaysia plane. I'm aware it's a very safe means of travel, but surely it can always get safer, no? Hence the question about possible ways to keep on improving safety.
The second one is possible but unlikely. The first one wouldnt happen as planes have terrain guidence systems, plus breathable height is 8,000ft so they would of been at a reasonable altitude of most of the alps
My god you must be trolling. Math and physics people do enjoy making fun of the intelligences of engineers, but not even I'd believe they'd be so stupid as to design such a system on the assumption mountains don't exist. The only people dumb enough to believe that is you and some random guy on a train apparently.
when the third "pull up" is triggered while in autopilot and nothing happens the onboard computer compensate automaticly
this didnt happen because the breathing altitude is way above that mountain ridge they crashed.. and thus the plane would have been fine even if the pilots where incapacitaded...
this could well be a terrorist attack who knows
i'm not the the guy who you were replying to before, i just stated the fact, that if they wanted to, they could have seen out of the windows, at least most of them
we don't know if it was cloudy or not, we don't know if they did know that they will crash or not
i was only arguing with your statement, that most people can't see out of the windows, which is not the case on this plane
>it is true that aircrafts have this automatic system
No it's not
>Also there is a system called TWS (Terrain Warn System)
It's called the GPWS (Ground Proximity Warning System)
>which has a higher priority then the oxygen descend
Again, an "oxygen descend" system does not exist
>if it detects an approaching to terrain, itll pull up the aircraft automatically
Wrong again. The GPWS will alert pilots of close proximity to the ground, but it will not "pull the aircraft up automatically"
>My guess is they just got into a stall and lost the control.
Your guess is wrong. Even with this little revealed information it's clear that the plane was in a controlled descent and it maintained speed, which means there was no stall.
You watch too much TV. Stop talking now, please.
I think he was just responding to me since I fly the A320 and I said we were given an OEB about the false stall recovery and how to recover from it.
He said he read about it on pprune
No, the aircraft's altitude would be cycling up and down in that case. The airbus is also very likely to have been equipped with stall protection, disallowing any inputs that force it into a stall.
I believe it's a depressuization thing, the pilots realized they had a cabin altitude problem and started an emergency descent, probably too late however and hypoxia overcame them, leaving the plane uncontrolled.
Small aircraft pilot here
Far as I know there's no system to automatically change the altitude, the pilots will have a few seconds of useful consciousness to put on oxygen masks in the event of depressurization.
If they didn't get masks on early enough the pilot may have manually or using the autopilot got the airplane to descend while they weren't very sound in reasoning and that be the cause, but I didn't hear about this one so it's just speculation.
No mayday or distress call. Plane descends at a consistent rate. Likely, depressurization or inability to pressurize since the airplane descends soon after reaching cruise. Several scenarios. A gradual onset of hypoxia, aircraft descends as designed resulting in CFIT scenario. Rapid depressurization at altitude, pilots preselect 6,000ft and hit "Exped" button on FCU. Plane begins to automatically descend as quickly as possible to preselected altitude which explains steep descent. Either ABO canisters not filled properly, empty, malfunction and pilots pass out and do not regain consciousness in time.
>surely it can always get safer, no
There's a way to prevent 100% of airplane crashes, would you like to know what it is?
>ground all airplanes permanently
Seriously man, just relax. Aircraft accidents are extremely rare in this day and age. If you're so worried about airplanes you must be terrified of cars or even bicycles which I'm sure have worse safety records.
We could make all planes a lot safer by only allowing them to fly at 10,000 ft and a speed of ~180kt, but that wouldn't be very practical would it?
>try telling that to the corpses of these people, and the ones still lying at the bottom of the ocean from the malaysia plane
You are quite the faggot. Millions, if not billions, of airliner flights have been conducted around the world without incident, and here you are worried about the few that go wrong. Something like 5,000-10,000 flights occur in America every /day/, and in the past 14 years only 2 have crashed (one shortly after 9/11, and more recently the one in KSFO which was due to insufficient piloting training by a foreign operator)
cool triple dubs, but yeah if you note at how fast they are talking though... they must of had some serious discomfort in their voices
" ah here we go " - * all to see is ocean and some sky/ first few and last as well noises of plane touching water,... lawdy
the same thing (but it was a software glitch) happened some time ago
false alarm lead the airplane into a diving mode and even worse somehow the autopilot locked down the control for 2 mins before the pilot finally turned it off (i think it was on a british airbus a320 of raf )
it was a freak event but still (same thing happened in 78 on a olympic airways 747 but in that case the autopilot cause the water injection system to stop working all together after the no3 blow out and somehow that plane was flying at 55 meters and as as slow as 164 knots (later they find out that they got saved because of the ground effect )
Actually the first story is completely plausible. If there was a depressurization onboard and a safety system kicked in to bring the plane to a height that was safe to breath, but the system was not designed to incorporate the altitude of the airliner this could happen.
I'd just like to know why there was no emergency communication from the plane over the 8 minute time period it was descending. I understand a pilot's first priority in an emergency is handling the emergency, but for 8 minutes?
I think something catastrophic happened to the fuselage to cause loss of pressure and took the pilots by such surprise they simply couldn't react, like, fuck i dunno, the roof of the cockpit tearing off or some shit.
I think it was sabotage.
Except it's not that simple.
Whether or not you turn the autopilot off, if the A320 is in normal law you can NOT stall it.
If it thought it was approaching a stall, autopilot or not, the pilots inputs would be overridden.
The only way to regain control would be to turn off a few of the flight control computers thereby forcing the airplane out of normal law and into direct law.
As I said earlier there was a bulletin put out about this a few months ago due to an occurrence in an A321
thanks.. starting to doupt the globe teory, and got a weatherbaloon capable of 80,000. so im sending my dslr to see for my self with my own equitment.. don't trust anyone anymore.. there are so many ppl reporting flat earth the last years when ppl have the tech to do reasearch themselfs...
Stupid fucking amerfats with their crappy Boeing if it was a French Airbus it never would crash. The blood of these people are on your hands fat fucks I only hope that soon your economy will colapse and China will drop a few nukes just fucking die u fucking scum of the earth
maybe there was no loss in cabin pressure. maybe an allahu akbar busted in the cabin, told the pilots not to touch radios and put the plane down on the ground asap, one pilot argued they were headed for a mountain and allahu akbar said "shut up, bitch" and knocked him out, so they crashed.
Yeah, really makes you respect their training though just calmly problem solving the whole time. I mean fuck your upside down hurtling towards the ocean, and then the moment of realization.
ive got about 800-1000 hours as passenger, before i started having epilepsy, my bitch ass would eat a lot of xanax and drink at the airport before the flight, as well during the flight.. that pizza they make is so fucking good when you are fucked up, that is all besides the point i would be passed out from fear if it was upside down lol. but yeah these guys just keep on keepin on and god damn...
I fly all the time too, I used to be nervous about it. But you realize how much goes into making it safe, I was on a flight last week and the flight was delayed 6 hours due to snow, then when we finally boarded they wouldn't take off simply because a sensor was too cold and was registering that the luggage door was open even though it was thoroughly secured. We had to switch planes, which and then everybody bitches and gets mad about the delays.
No chances are taken, and people don't realize how complex of an operation it is.
yeah pretty much.. i still get way to uneasy near takeoff and landing, and sometimes in chop... alcohol is still a friend though even though white rectangles ( xanax )would be so beautiful
Rescuers did not learn of the survivors until 72 days after the crash when passengers Nando Parrado and Roberto Canessa, after a 10-day trek across the Andes...
Over two months in the Andes. No food, no compass, -32' weather,little to no winter clothing, no cell phones, forced to cannibalize other passengers.
I'd stay off them completely. Bad design philosophy and it's a sketchy company to begin with.
My dad flew for delta for 32 years and I'm an aerosci student at embry riddle hence why i feel allowed to post an opinion
I'll eat your asshole alive you bitch
4000 meters is the altitude you need to be able to breathe without cabin pressure. Not sure how many alps reach that level.
The yoke is actually a joystick on the side in Airbus. So there is nothing to slump over.
Looking at flight trajectory it looks like it was a controlled descent but probably not by pilot. If it was out of control descent there would be an accelerated loss of altitude and increased speed over time an the decent curve would be more parabolic.
Trekked 30+ miles in the Andes without a clue where they were going with no actual expectations of getting out and no gear.. They knew their direction based on sunrise/sunset and a collective knowledge of the group and that's about it. They got lucky.
Maybe the plane started to lower because of de-presurrization and the plane tilting forward made the unconscious pilot fall forward and push the yoke downward and because of the emergency situation the plane gave the unconscious pilot full control and didn't do anything about the crash that was coming thinking that the pilot was trying to execute an emergency crash landing
10,000ft when cabin fails, which is well below the tops of some alps, that's the whole reason you can't change QNH to 103.2 (or whatever it is in europe) until well above 10,000 (unlike somewhere such as Australia)
To have icing, water must be LIQUID. If it's too cold (-69°F @ 40k feet), the water will be already iced and won't adhere to the plane. Anyway they say that weather condition was good.
where the fucking crash site pics? all ive seen are rows of emergency vehicles and a few helicopters. i want to see the mothafuckin hole in the mothafuckin ground.
inb4 french snakes did it.
my flight instructor once said, if something happens, it's because we were flying. and when something happens, you'll see a lot of parrots (the parrot is the bir that flies worst and talks most) critizicing.
leave the pilots alone, you're bunch of ignorant faggots that don't fly and talk shit about who does. most of this thread is poor speculation. let's just wait for the investigation results.
i'd say leave them rest in peace but i don't believe in any form of afterlife :p
I didn't think it necessarily was conspiracy...
What bugs me is the excessive media coverage.
I guess it's because it draws a lot more eyeballs than usual so they make more money... However many times the media is used to divert attention so idk what to think...
Here's a new theory.
The pilots were both piss drunk and thought they were already over the mountains and getting ready to land so they started a controlled descent as if to land at the airport... PISS DRUNK
many posts say what they should have done or what they might done wrong. not just about the pilots, but about the aircraft and many theories not very likely.
i'm mad because people that don't know about the topic wanna discuss, based on what media say. i'm not saying i do know.
Are you retarded? It crashed in the mountains, the only people up there are ones with Helicopters. You ain't seeing shit, at least not for a while.
There are no civies waltzing around up there with their cameras.
You know what you can do?
Click on a different thread, and then you wont have to read people discuss something you don't like.
Nobody forced you to be here. Everybody can say what they want, your no different than any other asshole here with an opinion. Except your opinion is dumb, because its basically "stop talking about this".
do you even know what's the Illuminati?
and yeah, I'm not talking about crappy youtube videos. I'm talking about thick historian's books...
So, yeah. I read those. I'm not special but I know wtf I'm talking about.
>claiming to be an expert in aviation
Uncanny how many experts in the field appear following a disaster.
How many engineers, architects and material science experts have you come across since 9/11?
THIS! Airbus has 3 pitot static probes, earlier crash (Air France over Atlantic?) was when 2 froze up and over-road the single good one. Plane senses a stall (low airspeed, two out-vote one) and pushes the nose over. Pilots sense too late what is going on..kaboom. Flight track data shows them at 6000 feet beginning to recover....too low in the alps. We were talking about this at work today. V-22 flight test engineer, USN
>the aircraft lowering it's altitude to a breathable height
Computer scientist here. The autopilot disengages automatically as soon as the pilot moves the cloche (or joystick in this case).
retard here- the Helios crash in the pic was an estimated 4-500 MPH into terrain, I am aware of that fact
But on a retarded science note, would that actually work? Could you cause an explosion so large in the opposite direction of motion to cancel out forward momentum? Or shoot a large enough canon or some shit to accomplish the same task?
These are the leading hypothesis. The fact that there was no radio call supports the "unconscious pilot" scenario.
The other option would be a massive power failure, which takes out the radio (hard to do on most modern airlines). Say, an electrical fire, which fills the cockpit with smoke. So they lower the planes altitude, stray slightly off course, and crash blindly into the mountainside.
There was talk about it being a deliberate crash, a repeat the of plane that went down in Pennsylvania on 9/11. But the lack of a radio call doesn't really support this, and is probably just sensationalism.
Fuckin hell why would you turn to 4chan for answers? I'm a pilot myself but nowhere experienced enough to comment on airline fms's, like most of this thread, most people claiming shit in here probably just read a Wikipedia article on Boeing (no offence to people of actual merit, but this is 4chan)