I was fired from my job today. I was called into a meeting with HR and security was there. They claim that I sent threatening email from company equipment which is a flat out lie. What are my options /b/?
The decision to fire me had been made beforehand and I wasn't given a say in the matter. Nor was I allowed to see the emails in question because they don't exist.
And by say in the matter I mean that I wasn't allowed to defend myself.
They gave me a check for my salary this month up till today and cashed out my vacation time.
The HR representative said that they would give me a payment equal to two months salary if I signed some form that they would mail to me. If I accepted I would be banned from all university property for the rest of my life. (I work at a research lab affiliated with a school)
I worked there for a little over 10 years. This was my first job out of college. I'm fucking bummed.
Is there any way to fight wrongful termination? I didn't email any threats to anyone. That is a load of crap.
Well, depends on where you live. In an 'at will' state they can fire you for any reason or no reason. If you apply for unemployment benefits and the university denies them, the Labor Board may ask to see relevant documents in the case and shoe just cause.
Just my guess.
That is what one of my now ex coworkers said to do. I have a work laptop at home. It has my work emails up to April 5. That is the only evidence that I have that I didn't threaten anyone.
Don't sign anything if your truly innocent get a lawyer. If you feel you were framed is there anyway you can disprove said claims?
If not get lawyer either way this shit will really harm your career opportunities in the future. Don't be stupid don't sign anything.
Also, it is worth noting that I have a security clearance for my job and this could potentially blackball me from the entire defense sector.
About two or three weeks ago I literally sent my group leader an email asking if they wanted me to leave the group and/or the lab. I had been hearing the drum beat to leave for months now and I knew something was coming. I wanted to jump to another group and not be fired. I had literally emailed another group leader asking about an open position a few hours before this came down.
As stated previously, getting a lawyer may be your only option. At least speak with one. Another thing to consider is what your work environment would be like if you did go back to the university.
Also, if you fight this, will it have a detrimental effect on getting a new job. As in bad reference.
Personally, I think success is the best revenge. Pick up the pieces and move forward.
They claimed that I sent an email on company equipment where I threatened to kill someone. I did nothing of the sort. They monitor everything. The place is very big brother but I was presented with no evidence. I had no opportunity to defend myself.
it would be illegal for them to give a bad reference. in fact, it's illegal to give any reference outside of confirming that they worked for you and whether or not you are eligible for employment.
Posted the only two of her that I have. Maybe another anon has more.
Amusingly they scheduled me an appointment with a career counselor for next Thursday.
Get a FUCKING lawyer right NOW and especially one specialized in hostile work environments and blackmailing shit. Trust me, when you are kicked out of a defense contractor (and hell no one with university connections) no good company wants you EVER AGAIN.
I'm going to. This all happened today at 3pm and I'm still rattled so I haven't done anything yet.
I don't understand why you didn't Lawyer up immediately and just post tits while waiting for a conclusion to the situation. What the fuck other options did you think there were?
You should probably sign, eat a dick and then go buy a gun and finish it off. - no dont sign.. just kidding but you need to think about why they want to remove you and prepare a defense around that angle. now go.. eat a dick
>be shitty employee
>hurr durr there must be a conspiracy against me
Because this all happened earlier today and I need to decide what I'm going to do.
I don't know that it is illegal per se. It is more to avoid being sued for in case the former employee sues for defamation. An previous employer can also be found liable if they are aware of certain behaviors and fail to disclose them, violent behavior for example.
It really all depends on what state you are in how much liability you face.
Where to begin with that one. I think they contacted all my acquaintances outside of work to dig up dirt on me. I'm not a shitty employee actually. I do a good job and have for years.
United States. We don't have a union. I'm a technology worker. An engineer.
>I work at a research lab affiliated with a school
I did the same for a few years, classified as a "temp" renewable each year, and when they finally "let me go", I went back to school and finished my Graduate degree, best thing that ever happened.
Dude, engineers make bank, even the shitty ones. Go on line and fined a job. It may not be in your state but work is work. If nothing else, get a job with the government.
About two weeks ago I met with the associate group leader who said that "it's ok to think about rape and murder but you need to be careful with what you put in writing." This statement didn't make sense to me and I pressed him on it. At this point it seems very much like foreshadowing that he was going to fuck me over.
Good move. Between now and then - document everything as well as you can with the resources you have (work laptop etc) if your account has not been disabled yet.
Go a step further by recording yourself doing this, confirming day and time at the start - even with just a cell phone. This is important so if they claim you continued to send correspondence after termination or did any other shady shit you can call them out.
Once done safely store any screenshots/archives off that pc. Disconnect it, and any other equipment you have of theirs.
If they contact you in any way before you have spoken to a lawyer tell them that you are seeking legal advice and cannot discuss a thing. No coming in, no discussions over the phone, nothing. No returning of equipment either (better the lawyer handles the handover). Hang up if they continue to try forcing something.
Once you have a lawyer they will handle any communications and tell you how to proceed. If they still try to contact you only say they have to go through the lawyer regardless of what they have to tell you - no wisecracks, arguing, anything - just "My lawyer is XXXX and his/her number is xxxxxx".
Sauce: Fired in retaliation for complaining about unsafe conditions, got the company fined half a million.
You have an employment contract? No? Then stop crying. Employment in the U.S. is "at will" which you can be fired for any reason, no reason, or even the wrong reason. You're not owed a job.
They can't fire you for being gay, old, female, hindu, or crippled. But they can fire you for being annoying. Or for being not annoying enough. Or for ANY reason. Or for NO reason.
If they lie to others about the reasons for your dismissal, then there's an issue. But none of that is going to get your job back. No lawyer can save you. There's nothing to save. Its ogre.
tl dr whole thread
where are you from anon? from my european/american experience i can say that almost 80% litigations my company have with its former employees are being lost. If you have money for lawyer and balls dont hesitate to sue your former employer.
CFO of company with more than 2000 employees
I partly agree. The job is gone. The lawyer would be there to make sure things go smoothly. If my being terminated adversely affects my security clearance than that is a problem. I also don't want to be banned for life from this university as I might want to someday get a degree from there.
If they are smart they will button up and be quiet, letting the legal team handle it but some will just keep harassing you, trying to get you to admit to something over the phone, somehow screw you over.
Check if you are in a one or two party state, record everything that is discussed, be open if in a two party state.
If they contact you in person, pull out your cell and record it so they can't "he said/she said" that shit. As always - follow the lawyers legal advice which will undoubtedly be: "Don't speak to them".
Now onto lawyers. Before spending anything look for local legal aid. Pro bono labor law places are decent, with a decent case finding someone to work on contingency shouldn't be too hard.
Working in a uni affiliated lab you may want to avoid any legal aid from the uni or any lawyers that also work for/with the institution. They might string you along for a bit then drop you due to conflict of interest.
>If they are smart they will button up and be quiet, letting the legal team handle it but some will just keep harassing you, trying to get you to admit to something over the phone, somehow screw you over.
>Check if you are in a one or two party state, record everything that is discussed, be open if in a two party state.
>If they contact you in person, pull out your cell and record it so they can't "he said/she said" that shit. As always - follow the lawyers legal advice which will undoubtedly be: "Don't speak to them".
>Now onto lawyers. Before spending anything look for local legal aid. Pro bono labor law places are decent, with a decent case finding someone to work on contingency shouldn't be too hard.
>Working in a uni affiliated lab you may want to avoid any legal aid from the uni or any lawyers that also work for/with the institution. They might string you along for a bit then drop you due to conflict of interest.
you can tell the OP is a female, becuase she's completely irrational.
desperatly wants to go back to work, despite the workplace not wanting her.
guess what would happen if this crazy bitch got her job back.
thats right, would quit becuase 'nobody here loves me"
If you want a lawyer to advise you about the severance deal, that's your call. Waste of money but if your unable to negotiate for yourself, then so be it.
You think everyone hires a lawyer when they get fired?
Shut up Kojak. You sound like a tard.
I discussed his comments with a coworker. I feel like the comments were in reference to an incident that happened 2 years ago. My coworkers had been harassing me about it since then.
There is a difference between being laid off and being fired for threatening violence. Especially around research any sort of stuff like that is a real black mark that can kill your career.
You watch watch 'The Firm' starring Tom Cruise, a great legal thriller with some insight into what it takes to swim the sharks.
Male here. Just upset at being canned for bullshit reasons after 10 years there. I was already looking around for another job.
>I discussed his comments with a coworker. I feel like the comments were in reference to an incident that happened 2 years ago. My coworkers had been harassing me about it since then.
And this why I hate being a lawyer: scumbag lying clients. Its clear that OP is holding back facts -- damaging facts. Why do you faggot always try to make yourself look like innocent angels in the top post and only admit the truth, in drips and drabs, when pressed?
I'm not claiming that. I had drama with a crazy girl two years ago. She ran my name through the mud and I had to report it to security as adverse information. In the end nothing came of it. She was nuts.
The explanation for my firing was that I sent threats of violence to someone from a work computer. I did nothing of the sort.
Maybe they really fired me because of the crazy girl drama and they legally can't say so. I don't know. All I know is what they told me today which wasn't much.
dont know the exact laws in massachusetts (we have business in IA and South Carolina) but generally speaking laws in united states are quite protective in the terms of firing employees on "fake" arguments. Slavic fag here and the way we threat our employees in central/eastern europe is totally unacceptable in US/germany/.... . If there is no proof you sent threatening email, they may have hard times. They should have prove it.
My TS was up for renewal and I was worried that it wouldn't be renewed. I guess now all that worry was for naught.
There are many policies that I'm sure they could get me on if they wanted to. Excessive use of the Internet for non work purposes if they wanted to.
I would never browse /b/ from my work computer. Also, the firewall would block it.
we had a simmiliar issue in germany, employee started a sue that he was fired based on allegly and constructed accusition (maybe after discussion with a lawyer), that involved police and all we had to do was proof that there were this kind of behavior. The side that was supposed to bring on a proof was just and only the employer. I think that it wouldnt be much different in US. Lucky for you that we live in 21st century where emails are being easily traced. If there is an threatening email you was supposed to sent, there must be proof, no matter what.
I never threatened to kill anyone by email. Work email. Personal email. It is just a complete fabrication.
My final word: OP you seem to think that you have the right to right to be treated fairly, to see evidence why they're firing you, and to defend yourself In fact, you have NO such rights.
If you are an "at-will" employee, you will only have a legal claim if the real reason that your employer terminated you is because of your age, ancestry, national origin, race, religion, color, disability, marital status, gender, sexual orientation, pregnancy, certain medical conditions, or because you reported some illegal or unsafe working conditions.
Short of the above circumstances, you have no legal recourse. And yes, they are free to LIE to you about the reasons for firing you, as long as they're not hiding a discriminatory termination. They can LEGALLY accuse you of doing something you didn't do, and even if you can prove otherwise, it makes NO DIFFERENCE. Because they don't need a reason to fire you, it makes no difference if they give you a reason, don't give you a reason, give you a shitty reason, lie about the reason, or are wrong about the reason.
Do some Google research if you like. You don't need a law degree to confirm what I'm telling you. Its spelled out on hundreds of websites because its elementary employment law.
>Also, could the non-U.S. people kindly shut the fuck up? This stuff is highly dependant on governing law, and your experiences in Yurop don't mean a fucking thing here.
The clear consensus is that I need to speak to a lawyer.
of course you may be right, this is why it should be consulted with lawyer first, noone else can give you any more decisive advice. Also you must have balls to go to the conflict. In the most of cases it is way easier for you to get over it and find another job. depends on you.
Separate issue. They're offering him a severance package, which he has no legal entitlement to. They're offering him BONUS CASH, in exchange for agreeing to certain things.
If he wants the BONUS CASH, then he signs or negotiates the paper. If he doesn't, then he doesn't sign and gets no severance. No one is forcing him to do anything.
I don't mind being banned from the lab but I might someday want to get a degree from the school and being banned from there would be a problem.
Common practice. For a small amount of money they get a release, which prevents people like you from filing frivolous lawsuits. Frivolous lawsuits cost the university money, even when you have no chance to win.
As for barring you from the school, that's unusual but I guess they just want to cover their ass. Of course, they can probably bar you from the school anyway, even if you don't take the deal.
Anyway, if you don't like something in the severance agreement but still want the free money, then be a man and negotiate it. Take out the part about barring you from the campus, or make an exception in the event you matriculate as a student. Or if this logical approach is too difficult for you, then hire a lawyer to do it for you.
I'm going to hire a lawyer. I don't think I could separate emotion from the process at this point.
I can't even fucking sleep.
Amusingly enough my former officemate was fired a few months back for stealing curly fries and pizza from the cafeteria at work. He actually got to state his case and defend himself. I apparently am not permitted such a luxury.
Just do me favor and tell your lawyer ALL the facts, good and bad, upfront. There's nothing worse than trying to represent someone who holds back the full story.
I know it sucks that you never got a chance to tell your side of the story. Most HR people know enough the give people a fake "hearing" so that they feel like they had their proverbial day in court. You didn't get that, which kinda sucks, but is ultimately irrelevant. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you'll come to peace with the situation. There's nothing you could or would say to undo this anyway, so make the best of it and move forward.
Amusingly enough I asked my group leader if they were happy with me and they said they were
Problem is I don't know what's relevant. The things they accused me of are complete bullshit. Simply a fabrication. I don't know how to defend against that or say what's relevant.
It was probably a decision by security. After the crazy girl drama they started watching me and I guess the decision was that I had to go.
I suspect that one of my acquaintances was forwarding my emails to my work and I started rocking the boat a bit too much because I felt like they were harassing me.
>I don't know what's relevant
I already told you what's relevant:
>certain medical conditions
Were you fired for any of these reasons? No? Then its not relevant.
Would mental health condition be a valid argument? I suffer from depression and I feel like they had been trying to force me into therapy.
After the group leader denied wanting me to go they kept saying that they just wanted to make sure that I was happy.
>worried about his "security clearance"
>wants to make a case that he's mentally impaired
Dude, turn off the computer, go to bed, and call an employment lawyer in the morning. Your saying some irrational stuff right now. Delete your browser history for good measure.
this... might not be half bad
When someone shits you over this badly, why not make them pay? Was there ever any times when you were alone in an uncompromising position with your boss?
Not really. I had meetings alone in their office.
At one point the group secretary suggested that I get CBT. When I declined she said that change is hard and it usually only happens after a lot of loss.
What more is there to tell? Crazy girl bullshit happened. Things got weird at work for like 2 years. Think they contacted all my acquaintances outside of work. Slowly everyone stopped talking to me. Eventually I was fired.
cool - I just emailed email@example.com screen caps of this thread
Thanks bud! Already been fired or didn't you hear.
How would this possibly help their lawyers? He hasn't plotted to do anything illegal, all he's done is ask advice and post legally-aged nudes
tell us what the crazy girl bullshit was you fucker
that's clearly the key to this and you're being way too coy
Get a Lawyer, and visit the Lamborghini Dealership.
So few people really understand the internet, that it is unlikely that, even if you did do it, that it can be proved beyond a preponderance of the evidence (the standard in civil court).
Smells Like Money $$$$
>implying it wont just go right in their spam filter
They established a pretence, so classic 'at will' may not apply anymore.
There can be negligence or malice....
This could be a tort, even if the termination is excluded from the trial matter.
Go on strike until they hire you!! is so simple
>anonymous thread, zero proof he actually posted anything
>inb4 they can tell by his scenario
>implying shit like that doesnt happen all over the world
>implying it could be someone pretending to be him to try to get him some advice to help the actual person out
>trying to be this edgy
Get a Tort or Civil Lawyer, not a Criminal Defense Lawyer.
Wrongful Termination, and Torts associated with Wrongful Termination.
If you can prove you did not do it (subpoena the data on the servers, or at least the redacted data that they used) you can show they are wrong, or at least that they have convincing evidence...if they continue to pursue termination in the face of "no evidence" then you have 'willful wrongful termination', which can prevent termination and increase collectible damages.
The first thing a good lawyer does is file an injunction against termination, and schedules a hearing for discovery or offers of proof...where each side establishes their bona fides.
It doesn't help their lawyers since all he posted was asking for advice and nothing illegal.
Their lawyers wouldn't even know for sure that he is the one posting these posts.
And also, he is already fired. He already want to quit, just not in a matter of him getting fired for that perticular reason.
If they went to your acquaintances, this is not a simple termination. Some agency is investigating you. Classified lab, I''m thinking FBI.
the good part is that the FBI has standards of judgment, and if you prove they made a mistake before or during open court, they are likely to back down.
Of course, they could just shoot you.
The question is, why would a competent agency make an incompetent claim....
What is the Story beneath the Story, and with shit this shady, why come to /b ?
I wasnt screwed in any way shape or form, but im assuming your ego is so out of sync with reality that you will believe anything. w/e bottom feeder, lets see how your life ends up when all you do is try to be the biggest dick possible
This guy has no idea what he is talking about. ALL tort lawyers are civil practice lawyers. You don't schedule a hearing for discovery, that's all outside the courtroom... And I've never heard of each side meeting to establish their "bona fides".... What do I know, I'm just in the 3rd year of law school. About the only good advice he gave was to get a lawyer. Ignore everything else
I'm not sure how civilian jobs work exactly because i'm and air force fag. But, I know that in the air force it's IMPOSSIBLE to take action against somebody without producing the evidence. If they don't have the evidence, they're making a false claim which is illegal. If you're telling the truth and not just playing with semantics (i.e. "I only told him I wish he'd die. not that I'd kill him. not a threat lolz) you have a pretty good chance at fighting this. Maybe some sort of discrimination charge.
Will you fucking greentext the crazy girl story already?
>but lawyers are expensive
that was me who said that, not op, was wondering what your response was cause I had a family member wrongly fired at work because of being written up for violations that had nothing to do with her
and the only bullshit story i got from her was she cant do anything because they are too expensive
Wrongful termination - Inadmissible evidence, countersue - find similar cases build your case - deposition - affidavit - get them on perjury, forgery etc. settle for monetary compensation etc.
>Says emails were fake
>Admits he sent "boat rocking" emails because he was frustrated
>Says that it's a conspiracy because boss was in trouble
You can't even keep your story straight in this threat.... OP confirmed POS. Fired his ass for keeping a creepy dude who harasses "crazy girls"
Lol U Guise xD.. U Guise Jus Keep Replyin xD I Think All Of Your Butts Are Frustrated!! Just Pointing It Out Lmao!
thats how id feel, but a part of me feels like she just may be bullshitting us. I dont understand how any cost could prevent you from fighting. Granted this isnt the first time.... Just seemed to be excuse after excuse. Was just wondering if there is any validity to "too expensive" tho
Asshole derailed the best thread all night.
With some time we might have gotten crazy girl story details.
Go die in a fire, faget
lawyer up, request proof of said email threat,, the onus is on them to prove it
>human resources in charge of not being silly
I was referring to the screencap and the email to firstname.lastname@example.org assuming it was the same flaming homo.
Given Managements draconian rule in this new era we live in (i'd say the last last ten years) this kind of scare tactic has become common place.
This is so much the case that paralegals have made websites for people to calculate the severence owed for years worked if you were recrutied from another viable job that makes the years owed to include the years at the other job too.
The all have the same advice
-don't sign anything
-you have a few months to decide but the sooner the better for payout
-they are in the wrong for wrongful dismissal always
Things happen from big to small
What can i say, fags gonna fag i suppose
You see a lot of threads like that now
dunno if you know about this thread